Collection of Discourses, Part 11 · Subpart 25
AN ANSWERE TO SOME ARGVMENTS againſt the Sacraments.
Certaine obiections againſt the afore-ſaid propoſiti…ns of Sacraments, with ſhort anſweares of Vrſinus therevnto, taken in a publique diſputation. Anno. 1567.
1 OBiection againſt that part of the ſeconde propoſition; Sacraments are ſignes of the eternall covenant.
The ſignes of an eternal covenant are eternal;
But theſe ſignes are not eternal:
Ergo neither is the covenant eternall.
The proofe of the maier denied is; In relatiues one being taken away, the other alſo is taken awaie. Aunſwer to the rule, whereby the maior is prooved, by diſtinguiſhinge. In relatiues hauing but one onelyonly correlatiue, as a father, a ſonnes one being taken awaie, the other alſo is taken awaie: but this rule houldeth not where are more correlatiues then one; as to this couenant of God are correlatiues not onelie the ſignes, but they alſo with whō this couenant is made, who ſhal endure for euer, &c: But theſe ſignes are correlatiues to the couenāt, not ſimplie as it is a couenāt, but as it is a couenāt cōfirmed by ſignes.
Note, that in the ſecond parte of this propoſition, betweene God and the faithfull, are included alſo the poſteritie of the faithfull, as the part in the whole, though actually they doe not yet beleeue, as infantes. Therefore the definition is not more ſtricte or particular then the things defined.
Obiect. 2. againſt that part of the ſecōd propoſition; And ſo cōfirmeth in thē the cōfidence of this promiſe.
That which is giuen to ſuch as hauehave no faith, cannot confirme faith, becauſe there is none to be confirmed.
Baptiſme is giuen to infantes which hauehave no faith:
Ergo baptiſme doth not cōfirme faith. And ſo conſequētly al ſacramēts do not confirme the cōfidēce of this promiſe.
Anſ. 1 to the maior by a diſtinctiō. It cānot cōfirme faith in them at that inſtāt whē it is giuen thē, & they hauehave no faith yet may it cōfirme faith in thē, whē they are of ripe yeares, and doe beleeue and hauehave faith.
Aunſ, 1 The minor alſo is verye doubtfull, whether infantes, eſpeciallie of the renewed and regenerate, be deſtitute of faith: ſeeinge that vntounto them al …ertaine theſe promiſes: I will be thy God and the God of thy ſeede. To ſuch belongeth the kingdome of God &c.
3. Obiection againſt the ſixte propoſition.
The truth of ſignes beinge once exhibited and fulfilled, the ſignes themſelues do ceaſe;
But in the newe teſtament the truth of the ſignes is exhibited and fullfilled.
Ergo the ſignes of the new teſtament are ceaſed.
Aunſ. Wee graunt all, yf you by ſignes vnderſtand ſuch ſignes, as ſignifie future things, & things hereafter to be fulfilled, ſuch as were the ſignes of the olde teſtamēt: but we deny the maior, if by ſignes you vnderſtand ſuch as ſeale vntounto vsus things alreadie performed, ſuch kinde of ſignes are the ſacraments of the new teſtament. Obiect. 4. Againſt that part of the tenth propoſition, which is not without converſion.
The Papiſts ſacraments are celebrated without regeneration;
Yet are they ſacraments.
Ergo ſacraments may be celebrated without converſion
Aunſ. The minor may be denied in respect of ſuch as are not converted. For to ſuch, ſacraments are no ſacraments, that is, ſignes of grace: eſpecially ſeeinge they turne them into meere idols. But they become ſacraments vntounto them, that is, ſignes of grace: when they are converted: and if they never be converted, they lykewiſe neuer become ſacraments to them.
Repl. Enforceing an abſurditie.
They who corrupt the wordes and forme of the inſtitution of any ſacrament (as baptiſme) doe alſo overthrowe the nature and ſubſtance of the ſame.
The Papiſtes do the former.
Ergo they doe alſo the l…tter: And therfore their baptiſme is not baptiſme; and ſo by conſequent wee which were baptized in time of Poporie, muſt be rebaptized.
Aunſ. To the maior. They overthrowe the ſubſtance of baptiſme; trew, to themſelues and ſuch as approoue them, and be not cōuerted; but not to them that acknowledginge their errors are conuerted, and adiorne themſelues to the church of Chriſt.
Obiect. 5. Againſt that parte of the eleuenth; The godlie receaue the ſignes to their ſaluation.
That only can be receaued by the godly to their ſalvation, which bringeth with it ſaluation, or is a cauſe therof;
But the things ſignified doe bringe alone ſaluation, and are the cauſes therof:
Ergo the things ſignified onelyonly, (and not the ſignes) are receaued by the godly to their ſaluation.
Aunſ. To the maior by diſtinction. That only which bringeth with it ſaluation can be receaued vntounto ſaluation; trew, to cauſe or beſtow ſaluation but that alſo which bringeth not ſaluation, that is, which is neither the efficient, nor forme, nor material cauſe of ſaeluation, may be receiued vntounto ſaluatiō, that is to confirme ſaluation. I exp…de my ſelfe thus. Both the thinges and the ſignes are receaued vntounto ſalvation: but the ſignes in one ſorte, the things in an other. For the things are a cauſe of ſaluation, and parte therof: but the ſignes hauehave in themſelues no ſuch quickening force, but onelyonly confirme our ſaluation as they are ioined with the things.
Obiect. 6. Againſt the twelfth propoſition.
That which bringeth with it condemnation, bringeth no fruits;
The vnworthie vſe and receauing of ſacraments bringeth condemnation, as it is prooued in the eleventh propoſition:
Ergo it bringeth no fruits.
Aunſ. Wee graunt all, before the converſion, not after; for then the vnworthie vſe and receauing is made worthy.
Repl. Condemnation doth not follow conuerſion;
The fruit of vnworthy receauing the ſacraments is condemnation:
Ergo fruits followe not conuerſion.
Aunſ. It is true of condēnation. But here we ſpeake of the fruits of a ſacrament vnworthilie receaued, which before the conuerſion for vnworthy receauinge was condemnation; but after the converſion is chaunged into our good and ſaluation &c.
Obiection. 7. Againſt that parte of the thirteenth Some ſacraments are vſed only once.
That which maketh to the cōfirmation of our faith muſt be often vſed;
All Sacramentes make to the confirmation of our faith:
Ergo all ſacramentes are to bee often vſed.
And ſo by conſequent wee ſhoulde bee often baptized.
Aunſ. to the maior, which is true, if God hauehave appointed that they ſhould be often vſed. But he wil not hauehave the ſacramentes of our receauinge into the church, and our regeneration to be …terated: becauſe by them hee doth once onelie begette vsus, and enter league with vsus, as by circumciſion and baptiſme; but by the other hee doth often confirme the league or couenant which hee doth enter with vsus, as by the Paſcall lambe, & the Lords ſupper.
Obiections. Againſt the ſecond difference of the worde and ſacramente in the ſixteenth propoſition.
They which are to be admitted to the more worthy, ſhould not be forbidden the leſſe worthie;
The wicked are to be admitted to the hearing of the worde, which is more worthie thē the ſacramēts, as is prooued 1. Cor. 1. 17. God ſent me not to baptize, but to preach the Gospell:
Therefore the wicked are not to bee forbidden the ſacraments.
Aunſ. We denie the maior if you take it vniuerſally; becauſe it is neither euerie where nor alwaies trew.
Repl. That ſhould not be forbidden wherof may follow fruite;
Of receauing the Lords ſupper euen by the wicked may follow fruite:
Ergo the wicked are not to be forbidde the Lordes ſupper.
Aunſ. to the maior. He ſhould not be forbiddē if God forbad him not; but the church hath receiued this commandement of God, That it muſt not doe evill that good may come of it.
9. Obiection againſt that part of the ſame propoſition. The word muſt bee preached even to the vnbeleeuing.
Chriſt forbiddeth vsus to caſt pea…les to ſwine and dogges;
Therfore the wicked muſt not be admitted to the hearing of the word preached.
Anſ. To the antecedent: by dogs and ſwine are not meant ſimplie he wicked, but ſuch enemies as mecke & perſecute the doctrine: barking and impugning it like dogs, and treading it vnderunder foote like ſwine. Againſt ſuch this argument were of force.