The State of the Church of England, Dialogue
The state of the Church of England.
Diotreph
MIne hoste, I pray you stay with me and my friende M. Tertullus, and tell vsus some newes, for wee are lately come out of Scotland, and would heare before wee come nere London, in what state things doo stand, least wee comming on a sudden, speede as ill as wee did at Edenborough, and S. Andrews.
Pandoch
Good my Lorde, I canne tell you no great newes, for I go not so farre as to Church once in a monethmonth, but if I doo happen to go, one of my seruants doth come for me in all haste, to make merrie with one guest or other, but there be twoo in this house that came from London, if it please your L. I wil intreat one of them to come vntounto you, it may be he can tell you some thing.
Diotreph
I pray thee doo so: you are welcome my friend, I vnderstand that you came from London, I pray you tell me some newes for I hauing beene in Scotland, some space, hauehave not heard much of the state of England.
Demetri
My L. I heare no newes, but that our Bishoppes (Gods blessing hauehave theyr heartes for it) say pretie wel, by one and by one, to these precise and hot Preachers, for some of them are putte to silence, some of them close prisoners in the Gate-house, some well loden wyth yrons in the White-lyon, and some in the Clinke, I hope to see them one day all put downe, for they trouble the whole land, and are neither contented to obey the authoritie of these holie fathers, neyther yet will suffer vsus to liue as our fore-fathers hauehave doone before vsus, and heere is a good fellowe which I met yesterday vppon the way, who is iust of their opinion.
Pandoch
I knowe not of what religion hee of whome you speake is of but I am sure that hee hath manie of our Preachers quallities, for whiche I like him the woorse, for since our Preacher came, I hauehave not gained halfe so much as heretofore I did, but if I had but eueryevery night suche a guest, wythin one monethmonth all men woulde refraine from comming to mine house, and so I might begge.
Diotreph
Why mine hoste, what are his qualities that you dislike so much?
Pandoeh
VVhat? I will tell you, as soone as euer he lighted, my man that tooke his horse, chanced but to sweare by God, and he was reproouing of him by and by, and a gentleman cannot come in this euening, in any place where he is, but he is finding faut with him for one thing or another: and when he should go to supper, with other gentlemen, sitting at the lower end of the table, he would needes say grace (forsooth) before and after supper, and so stay them that were hungrie, from their meat the longer, and from their sleepe afterward but one wiser then the rest, serued him in his kinde, for he started vp saying: my father had neuer grace said before meate, neither will I hauehave any.
Diotreph
I perceiue he is one of these peeuish puritanes, that troubled the Church, when my friend and I went into Scotland, hauehave not the Bishops yet suppressed them, neither by countenance, nor by authoritie?
Tertulluss
Suppressed; No my Lord, a frind of mine writ vntounto mee, that one of theyr Preachers said in a pulpit, he was perswaded that there were 100000 of them in Englande, and that the number of them encreased daily in euerie place of all estates and degrees.
Diotreph
I am sory for that, I maruell that you neuer tould me of it.
Tertullus
I did of purpose conceale it, least, togither with your ill successe that you, and so consequently I, had in Scotlād, your griefe should hauehave bene aggrauated, for I know how that the growing of them doth grieue you.
Diotreph
You may be sure, that it would hauehave grieued mee, if you had tould me that, when you tould me of the encreasing of your friendes the Papists, I thinke I should hauehave died for sorrow.
Tertullus
I knowe that, therefore did I keepe it cloase, but if newes had come in like monne, of the growing of the Catholique religion vntounto your man, that Puritane knaue, hee would hauehave tould it you at the first, and so hauehave molested you the more.
Diotreph
You say well, and I percciue it is better to hauehave a Papist, than a Puritane in an house, and more charitie to do for them.
Pandoeh
Your Lordshippe asked me forsome newes, but your speach of your being, and ill successe that you hadde in Scotland, giueth me occasion, to enquire of you (if I may be so bolde) Some Scottish newes.
Diotreph
Ah my hoste, though it grieue mee to thinke vppon it, yet it easeth my stomacke to tell it out. The Puritanes in Scotland, hauehave got vp their discipline, and vtterly ouerthrowen all the soueraigntie of Bishops, by which they preuailed so mightilie, that we feared our fall in England shortlie to ensue, whervpon I was sent togither with this my friend, who came out of Fraunce into England, to go and seeke the subuersion of their great assemblies, and the rest of their iurisdiction, wherein I preuailed a while, but nowe it is woorse, than euer it was.
Pandoeh
How came it to passe, that when you had gotten some ground, you held it not?
Diotreph
Because the whole land cried out for Discipline againe, and the noble men so stifly did stand to it, and lastly, the Ministers that came home from England, dealt so boldelie with the King, that I was vtterlie cast out without all hope, euer to do any good there again, and nowe I make homewarde in haste, least I loose all there also, but I praye you helpe me to speake with that Puritane, I shall learne more by him, because he is better acquainted wyth the cause than either of you.
Demetri
Hee may soone knowe more in that case than I, for I promise you, mine onelyonly studie is in my counting house, to see my money, and when each parcel is due vntounto me.
Pandoch
And I meddle with nothing but my In-keeping, as for these controuersies and this scripturing, I neuer trouble my selfe wyth it, but I will goe to him to see whether I can get him to come to your Lordship: but before I go, I must beseech you to saye nothing to him as from mee, for you knowe, I must bee friendly to all, least I leese my custome, and driue away some of my guests.
Diotreph
Great reason, for euerie man must liue of his trade, neyther must you tell him what I am.
Pandoch
Sir, heere bee certaine gentlemen in an other chamber, that hearing of your comming from London, would gladlie speake with you.
Paule
Whence are they can you tell?
Pandoch
They are English men, but they are but new come out of Scotland.
Paule
I am willing to go to them, though it be late, and so much the rather, bicause I long to heare some good newes from thence.
Pandoch
Here is the Gentleman that you desired to speake withall.
Diotreph
You are welcome my frind, I was desirous to speak with you, for that I perceiue you came from London, I praie you, can you tell vsus any good newes?
Paule
No surely, for I am a verie ill obseruer of such things.
Diotreph
You seeme to be a Minister, can you tell me what good successe my Lordes the Bishops hauehave in their proceedings?
Paule
They hauehave too good successe, they wax worse and worse, they grow euen to the heigth of their iniquitie, so that I hope their kingdom wil not stand long.
Diotreph
Why sir, what doe they, that they offend you so grieuously?
Paule
They stop the mouth of the sheepeheardes, and set at liberty the rauening wolues, and turne the foxes among the lambes.
Diotreph
I must desire you to expresse your minde more plainely, for you seeme to bee so possessed with discontentment, that it maketh you to speak (as it were) snatchingly.
Paule
I confesse my selfe discontented, and greatly grieued, but yet not so much, as to make mee lesse able to expresse my minde.
Diotreph
I pray you therefore, lay open your former speeches, that I may vnderstand your meaning.
Paule
My meaning is this; That there are three abhominations committed by them: The first is, that they do beare such an enmity against the kingdome of Iesus Christ, that they put to silence one after an other, and will neuer cease (if God bridle them not) vntill they hauehave rooted out of the Church, all the learned, godly, and painefull teachers: The second is, that they enlarge the libertie of the common enemies the papists: The last is, that they commit the feedinge of the flockes of Christe, vntounto those that prey vponupon them, and eyther cannot, or will not labour to reclaime the wandering sheepe. So that the conclusions that may bee gathered vppon their actions, must needes be the euersion and ouerthrow of the Gospell, and so consequently the bringing in of popery and atheisme.
Diotreph
They put none to silence, but the puritans, who do indeede more hurt than good.
Paule
I know no puritans, if there be anie, it is meete that they be put to silence: But Sathan taught the Papistes, so to name the ministers of the Gospell, and you are his instrument in continuing the same rerme.
Diotreph
I meane them, that are not contented with the estate, but mislike the gouernement of the Church, and woulde hauehave a newe forme of gouernement, which would marre all.
Paule
Woulde you hauehave them contented with Antichristian prelates, to bee rulers of the spouse of Christ, when as the word of God hath prescribed expresly, another form direct contrary to that?
Diotreph
I am a doctor of diuinity at the least, and yet could I neuer reade any thing in the worde of God, contrarie to this gouernement, neyther yet to speake of any other, but that the ordering of the Church is left to the discretion of the wise and learned.
Paule
Yes, you hauehave read it, if God had giuen you eyes to see it: But if your study had beene principally to aduaunce Gods glorie, and benefite his Church, which you neuer aymed at, but rather preferred vaine glorye and gaine, you should easily hauehave found it. I pray you therefore, when you come to London, see if you can get these bookes: the Ecclesiasticall Discipline: A lerned discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernement: The Counterpoyson: A Sermon vponupon the 12. to the Romanes, & M. Cartwrites last reply: some of which bookes hauehave bene extant this dozen yeeres, and yet are none of them answered, and you shall finde it otherwise.
Diotreph
If their Lordsh, were taken away, the credite of the Gospell would fall to the ground, and men would not regarde it.
Paule
Nay, their iurisdiction maketh it not to be regarded, for the simplicitie of the Gospell, can not match with such outward pompe, it was of more credit before their calling was hatched, than euer it was since.
Diotreph
I hope neuer to see thē ouerthrown, and I thinke they will neuer giuegive ouer their Byshopricks.
Paule
I am of your mind, that they wil neuer giuegive them ouer, they hauehave such experience of the gaine of them, the vse of the bagge preuailed so much with one of their Apostles, that rather than hee woulde lacke money, he would sell Iesus Christ himselfe.
Diotreph
You speak too vnreuerently and vncharitablie of these holy fathers.
Paule
Surely I hauehave so much experience of their impious dealing, that I canne no better esteeme of them in respecte of their plaees, than of the ennemies of God, but as they bee men, I will not cease to pray for them, that God would open their eies, that they may see their sinnes, and repent, which is the best waie to deale charitablie with them.
Diotreph
I pray you tell ne why these men be put to silence, I am sure it is for theyr notorious misdemeanor.
Paule
I will tell you wherefore some of them were put to silence; one had conference with a Bishop about subscription, and he was restrained for that hee gaue his friende a coppie of his conference, another, because he taught that the Church of Antichrist was no parte of the Church of God, another, because his praiers before and after Sermons were too long, and such like.
Diotreph
Away, it is rather for not obseruing the booke of common praier, than for any such thing as you speake of.
Paule
Indeed many are suppressed therfore, but if any man will giuegive them their titles and authoritie, they will giuegive hym leaue to vse his discreation wyth the Booke, as wee see by experience, for they vse the Booke and ceremonies as brieles to curb them that ki…k at their lordlinesse, which is the onelie thing that they mind.
Diotreph
Well, I louelove not to heare these reuerend fathers so abused, and therefore I praye you talke no more of it, but if it please you, you may depart.
Paule
I am contented, onlie let me request you this one thing, that for so much as GOD hath giuen you learning, you would praye vntounto God, to guide you with his grace, that you abuse it not to your owne destruction, but employ it to his glory, and the good of his church.
Diotreph
I thanke you for your good counsell, and so fare you well, we will talke more in the morning.
Paule
With a good will: I praye God our talke may tend to a good end.
Diotreph
M. Demetrius and mine hoste, howe like you this fellew? is hee not a sawcie merchant, to presume thus to speake against those that were Preachers before he was borne? But this is the miserie of our nation, that euerie yong boy will take vppon him to reach the ancient, and to reprooue them, for that their greene heades thinke that to bee true.
Pandoch
Your Lordship saith very well, I pray you forget not to vrge him with that in the morning. For it must needs make him mute.
Demetri
I promise you he is a bolde fellowe, it is no maruayle, if such as hee is, doe stand stiffe against vsus that be vnlerned, seeing they bee so bolde with you, I tel you, he tooke me vp as if I had bin but a kitchin boye, and all because I saide I liued by my monie, and was of no other trade, calling me caterpiller, thief, and murtherer, and saide plainely, that he that robbed in Stran-gate hole, was an honester man than I.
Diotreph
You must take heed, that you do not oppresse your brother too much, but as for these fellowes, it is their manner to be so bitter and sharpe, that they do euer with their preaching, more hurte than good.
Demetri
I hope you wil course him tomorow for it: but I pray you my L. let me hauehave a little talke betweene you and me, of a matter that now commeth in my mind; this man that is with you, and went and came in your company, what is he?
Diotreph
To be plaine with you, he is a Papist.
Demetri
Papists are enemies to the Queenes religion and lawes; I do therefore much maruaile, that he should be put in trust by the Bishops.
Diotreph
The cause is this, he light into the familiaritie of one of our friendes, who confuted a Booke called the Abstract, and helped him so painefully with reasons out of the Rhemish testament, and other such like writers, to confute the Puritans, that he was thought a fit man aboue all other of his religion, to goe with me.
Demetri
Why, coulde you not hauehave had another of your relgion, but you must needs hauehave a Papist your assistant?
Diotreph
No, no, if I had not had a Papist with me, I could neuer hauehave looked to hauehave preuailed.
Demetti
Why so? I pray you tel me the reason of that.
Diotreph
Because our dignities and gouernement, commeth wholy and euerie part thereof from the Pope, and is ruled and defended by the same canons, whereby his popedome is supported. So that if I had wanted their helpes, I had had none authoritie, eyther from God or man, no helpe either by reason or learning, whereby I could hauehave beene furthered.
Demetri
Why did you not rather take some doctour of the Arches, to go with you?
Diotreph
That was consulted vppon before I went, but it was not thought meet, because the most of them woulde neuer deale in that lawe at home, but onelyonly because they knowe not else howe to liue, & therfore it was feared that they woulde not be sufficiently diligent in a matter that concerneth others. And for the rest (who indeede) be the same men they were in Queene Maries time, we durst not carrie anie of them from home, for none defend our kingdome thorowlie but they.
Demet…i
Me thinks this man should be an vnfit assistant, for if he be a right Papist, he will labor to erect the Popes kingdom, and so to crosse you.
Pandoch
No question but he did so, and that made for vsus, for albeit we would if wee might, of the twaine, keepe rather the protestants religion with our dignities than the other, yet hadde wee rather change our religion, than to forgo our priuiledges; this I tell you betweene you and me, but I would hauehave it go no further.
Demetri
Do the old popish doctors stand you in such gret steed, me think you might hauehave hadde learned lawyers for cuerie place before this time, and hauehave turned them out:
Diotreph
It is true, but we hauehave receiued them of purpose (man) for we can beare, I tel you, with their religion, so that they do beare vp our authoritie: doe you not see likewise, that we hauehave reserued ma… my popish prists in the ministery, wherof diuerse doe yet remaine, which wee hauehave done vponupon speciall consideration: to wit, least there should be too manie learned, not one whereof will stand to vsus, sane onelyonly they that eyther hauehave, or looke to hauehave better preferment, or liue more easilie than S. Paules Epistles will allow them.
Demetri
I hauehave beene bold to trouble your L. I will nowe leaue you for this time, I will come vntounto you in the morning to breakfast.
Diotreph
You shall be welcome vntounto me at all times, for I perceyue you are none of them that fauor the Puritans.
Pandoch
My L. your breakfast is redy, wil you hauehave them come to you that were here yesternight.
Diotreph
I would hauehave him that taried yesternight so late, for hee is a very honest gentleman, and a quiet, but in any case let not the Puritane come vntill breakfast be done, for he is too precise: I must needs be mery, and if he be here, he wil not let to reproue vsus, if wee do butfortune to swear at vnawares, so that I shal be afraid of him in eueryevery word I speak.
Pandoch
Heere is but simple cheare this morning, because it is fasting-day.
Diotreph
M. Tertullus wil eat no egges to day: will you M. Demetrius?
Demetri
Yea by S. Mary, I am a protestant, for I louelove to eate flesh on the friday.
Diotreph
It is well said, but I pray you, thinke not ill of me M. Tertullus for it, for saint Paul hath taught vsus, that we that eate, should not indge them that eate not; for wee being strong, must beare with the infirmities of the weake.
Demetri
You promised yester-night to sende for the Puritane, to talke further with him, I pray you do so, for I woulde hauehave him taunted thorowlie.
Diotreph
By my troth I hadde forgotten him, mine host, call him.
Pandoch
Heere is the Gentleman you willed me to call.
Diotreph
You are welcome, this Gentleman M. Demetrius telleth me, that you, and hee, had great controuersie on the wap yesterday, and he is very defirous that I might heare your reasons, and giuegive my iudgement of them for his satisfaction.
Paule
Sir, I saide nothing to hym but the truth out of the worde of God, in condemning of vsurie, by which he saide he liued, and shewed him the horriblenesse of the sinne, the inconueniences temporall that come of it in the commonwealth, and the iudgements of God against the practises thereof.
Diotreph
Vsurie in deed in some sort is vnlawfull, but it seemeth that you dealt not with the man, as meaning to win him, but rather by such sharpenes as might harden him.
Paule
Surely my desire was to winne him, and therefore my purpose in reasoning was, to lay open the sinne vntounto him, and the cause why I dealt som what roundly, was this: hee confessed the scriptures that I alleadged, but so cauelled and wrangled against the cleare light therein conteined, that it appeared vntounto me his purpose was, not onelyonly to abide an vsurer, but also to iustifie it by the word of God.
Diotreph
Such chollerike fellowes as you doe marre al, for you cannot deale mildely, and so you trouble the conscience, and disquiet the minde of the weake.
Paule
His conscience must be troubled by launcing, before that euer his soule can be cured.
Diotreph
Then I perceiue you like wel of them that prech the law so much as they do.
Paule
Yea, or else should I not like of bringing men vntounto Christ, which can neuer be vntil they be humbled by the law, & made pure therby to receue the gospel.
Diotreph
Doe you not also like of them, preaching of predestination?
Paule
Yea, or els should I dislike of preaching the truth, for it is a part of Gods reuealed will.
Diotreph
So do not I in these dais, when there bee so many weake ones, I thinke it to be a very breake-necke of all religion.
Paule
I hauehave heard of free-will men, that hauehave saide so, but I neuer heard man of learning affirme it, but one that was a Bishoppe in a Sermon, but his wordes were no lesse than blasphemie, and so are yours, and al they that say or think the same are guiltie of no lesse sinne.
Diotreph
Are you a Preacher and speake so of these reuerend fathers, it may be your own ordinary to whom you are sworne to giuegive canonicall obedience.
Paule
It was the Bishop indeede, who vsurped euen the place where I dwelt, but I neuet sware him anie obedience.
Diotreph
Well, we are gone from our matter.
Paule
And I pray you let vsus tarry a little longer from it, to consider one thing before wee doe returne, which the talking of the Bishops bringeth into my head.
Diotreph
What is that?
Paule
Surely, that I thinke you are either a B. or else brought vp in the schoole of a B. and woulde faine be one, for you doe vse your selfe verie like, as I hauehave knowne them do.
Diotreph
Wherein?
Paule
In this, that wheras we reasoning of vsurie, wherein your conscience is clear within, you are contented for the fauor of him, and for that you like not me, to maintain the same, and to disgrace the truth, because of the partie that defendeth it, who is not according to your humor.
Diotreph
You may bee ashamed to speake to of these holy fathers, I dare say, that none of them euer did so.
Paule
If mine eares had not heard it, mine eies seene, & mine owne person had not felt the experience thereof, I shoulde hauehave beene of your minde, for I once liked them, and their verie wicked dealings made mee looke into the lawfulnes of their calling, which I see now to be meere Antichristian: but shall I tell you one example among manic?
Diotreph
I am willing to heare you, but I can neuer be brought to thinke so.
Paule
Yet will I tell it you, that you may thinke of it, I was accused vntounto the B. of such crimes as were most slaunderous and false, where vponupon I desired him to send for mine accusers, and see how they coulde prooue, that I (if I were con…icted) might be punished, or else they might hauehave the rewarde that molesters of the preachers of the Gospell do deserue: he graunted it me, and appoynted a day, which being come, rather than I (whome hee thought not to fauor his authoritie) should hauehave anie helpe at his handes, hee made mee a sleeueles aunswere, and sent mee away. Thus are Byshoppes coutented to bee bawdes vntounto al kinde of sinners, rather than they will any way seeme to further the ministerie of those whome they fauour not, and euen thus doe you: for your hatred vntounto my person, maketh you to stand with that monstrous vsurer, but take hecde of it, for God will not be mocked, he seeth your dealing, and will iudge you accordingly, howsoeuer you can pretend the contrarie to the world.
Diotreph
As for mine owne part, I passe not what you speake: but let me aske you one question concerning these holie fathers, and that is this, what reason is there that they should do anie good in any respect vntounto any of you, seeing they knowe you to bee professed foes vntounto their dignities.
Paule
Because they taking themselues to be the fathers of the Church, shoulde hauehave a regarde to the good cause, and defend it without respect of persons.
Diotreph
No sir, I see no reason in that, for aboue all things, they must look to thē selues, without whose authoritie the Gospell would be troden vnderunder foote: and therfore they may defend no cause nor person further than may stand with their owne safety.
Paule
Suppose that were lawfull, what hinderance is this to themselues, to see thē that bee common and knowne drunkards, vsurers, adulterers, and profane persons punished, for that they are railers at me, for teaching the 'trueth of religion, and reproouing sharply their godlesse conuersation.
Diotreph
Oh you are a simple man, it is great hinderance, for they can do nothing in defence of you, though it be in matters wherein you and they doe agree, but it tendeth to the derogation of their own estimation, such is the contrarietie betwixt your building and theirs.
Paule
By that meanes shall we be so wearied with aduersaries, that we shal neuer hauehave any hope to doe good, but euen to be constrained to giuegive ouer the ministerie.
Diotreph
I woulde I might see that once come to passe, we hauehave laboured for it hitherto, and neuer could attaine vntounto it neyther will the Church euer bee in quiet vntill you all be turned out.
Paule
So thought the Sodomites, that they should neuer be wel, so long as Lot was in their citie; but when he was gone, fire from heauen consumed them: but I pray you tell me, if all were turned out, how should the people be taught, for it is euident, that none else (almost) maketh a conscience of his duty that way.
Diotreph
You think teaching wold faile without you: No sir, teaching woulde bee more regarded than it is.
Paule
Shew me how that can be.
Diotreph
Wee woulde hauehave none to preach aboue once a monethmonth, and then shoulde he doe it profoundly, and confirme his matter out of the fathers, and humane writers substantially, whereas you taking vponupon you to preach three or foure times a week, must not onelyonly of necessitie handle your matters verie rawlie, but also breede loathsomnesse in the people.
Paule
Surely my hart waxeth cold, and my flesh trembleth to heare you speake so monstrously: dooth preaching consist in quoting of doctors, and alleadging of Poets and Philosophers, in what part of his commission hath a minister war rant so to do? You finde fault with our often preaching, because your selues cannot so doe, but if you woulde leaue off your vaine glory, in hunting after promotion, and your couetousnesse in adding murther vntounto theft, I meane liuing to liuing, and betake your selues to study and praier, bending your whole indeuor to the glorie of God, and edifying of his people, you should see the blessing of God so aboundantly vppon you, that you shold preach foure times eueryevery week, with more fruite than you can doe nowe foure times eueryevery yeare, for while you bee minded as you are, the Lords iudgment is vponupon your gifts, and his cursse vponupon your labours, that you appeare ridiculous euen vntounto children. And whereas you say often preaching cloyeth the people, you shewe your selfe plainely to hauehave no feeling in the sweetnes of the worde of God: for it is so delightfull vntounto the childe of God, that the more he heareth and readeth it, the more desirous is he to proceede therein, it is the propertie of the vngodly, to whome the word is foolishnes to be cloied with the same.
Diotreph
You shal not be my teacher, neither wil I learne at your hands, I know wel inough what I hauehave to do.
Paule
I do not speak as a teacher vntounto you, but in brotherly louelove doo admonishe you, and if you refuse mine (or rather the councell of the holie-ghost vttered by me) you doo but as they do, whose condition you defend, I pray God forgiue it you, and lay it neither to your nor their charge.
Diotreph
They are great moates in your eies, they know better what to do than you can tell them, they see what is meet for the Church, being auncient graue men of long experience, better than a sort of yong boyes start vp but yesterday.
Paule
Though some be but yong, yet al are not so, for we hauehave some more ancient than they hauehave any, we hauehave of all ages and degrees of Schooles to compare with the best of them, and yet yeares, and humane learning, and experience, must not carrie away the matter, but the euidence of truth in the old & new Testament, and as for experience, they hauehave none, for they were first brought vppe in the vniuersities, then became Deanes, and such iollie fellowes, and nowe are made Mitred Lordes, so that they cannot tel what it is to traine vp a people to the gospel, & reclaime them from ignorance and sinne, for they neuer stouped so lowe as to labour therein, but if they had euen my experience, they would sing an other song, for before I came into the haruest to worke, I liked their hierarchy wel inough, but when I laid it to my labours to further them, I found that they coulde not possibly stand together.
Diotreph
Did the gospell euer so flourishe in Englād as it doth now at this present?
Paule
No surely, God be praised for it, and encrease it more & more, but to what end do you speake it?
Diotreph
To prooue that the authoritie, and wise gouernement of the Bishops hath had good successe.
Paule
I thought so, but it is (if you woulde looke into the matter with a single eie) cleane contrarie, for the good that hath bin done, the Lorde hath brought it to passe by these menne whome you despise, and by that course which the Bishops were euer enemies vntounto.
…eph
How can you proue that I pray you, let mee heare your reasons that mooue you to thinke so, for I am perswaded of the cleane contrarie.
Paule
It serueth not in this case what you are perswaded of, for a Bishoptick hath so blinded your eies, & corrupted your iudgement, that you like nothing but that which agreeth therewithall, but I will shew you my reasons that maketh me of that iudgement, and if you look equallie into the matter, or aske anie indifferent man, you shall see it to bee so.
Diotreph
Shew mee them, for I long to heare them, I am sure they be wise stuffe.
Paule
First for the men, what congregatiō, what towne or people is there in this land, that they hauehave bene in the raigne of our soueraine Q. Elizabeth, conuerted to the gospell, that those men hauehave not bene the instruments to performe, whome the Bishops hauehave continuallie persecuted, and for the courses that hauehave bene taken, and which God hath greatly blessed, which of them hauehave not bin ouerturned by the Bish. and the preachers put to silence, assoone as euer the gospell beganne to appeare: On the other side, tell me if you be able, of any such effect of the ministerie of a B. or bishoplie preacher, in anie place of this land, though it hath beene interrupted these twelue yeeres, as you shal see in many places by the other sort, euen in few moneths now and then, so that the matter is not onelie cleare vntounto all that will weigh it in the ballance of equitie, but vntounto me, if I had no reason, it is an euidēt proofe that they take the right way, whose labours the Lorde doth so blesse, and contrariwise, the curse of God is on the other, for their indirect dealing.
Diotreph
Thus you imagin because you please your selfe in your owne peeuish waies, but tell me who are of your opinion: euen a few Puritans like your selfe.
Pauls
Call vsus as you list, Christ was neuer the woorse for that his ennemies called him a seducer, & a deceiuer of the people, but I am sure (all for the most parte that feare God) of euerie degree and calling, are of the same minde, sauing those whom you by your sutleties hauehave be witched.
Diotreph
You will hauehave but a few then in this land that feare God, and so you will condemne the rest, which is the maner of all of you.
Paule
I condemne none, I wishe that not a few, but all (if it were possible) did truely feare God, but I woulde hauehave you learne of Christ wyth me, who may without disgrace be your teacher, to trie the tree by the fruit, and seeke me out that man which maketh a conscience of sinne, and hath a care to liue as a christian, that is not of the same mind with vsus: on the other side marke what kinde of men they be, that are the patrous and defenders of the Bishops, and you shal see them to be men that make no reckoning of sinne, but hauehave their wayes fraughted with all impietie, if they bee ttied with the touchstone of Gods word.
Diotreph
Well then you confesse yet, that the generall sway goeth on our side, and so long as it is so, we care not.
Paule
I wil easily grant it, and so hauehave they from the beginning, and shall to the ending of the world (against all goodnes) but I will tel you one thing euen of thē, that few of them like you indeed.
Diotreph
How can these twoo stand together, many are with vsus, & few like of vsus, they be meere contrary?
Paule
I wil tel you how, the Papist is on the Bi. side, because he can finde shilter vnderunder them to hide his idolatry. The atheist is tooth and naile for them, because by them he enioieth carnal libertie, the man of most notorious life defendeth thē, bieause he can frō thē, redeeme the corporal punishment of his sins by mony, but none of these like of thē indeed; The first, because they keepe the possession of the seats of their popish prelats, the other, because they are so greedie in their courts for money, that euen eueryevery man crieth shame on them, who then do louelove them indeed, and sticke to them onelyonly? these three hang-bies, that depend vponupon them, and liue by them, as their chaplains and seruants, the Cananits (I should say) the Canonists, and such ministers as either cannot, or will not, labour in their function, to conuert soules vntounto God, so that they doo stincke in the nostrels both of God & man, especially in these three last yeeres of their tyrannie, that I doe verily hope their sinne is very neare the heigth, and the Lord in mercy will ease vsus of them shortly.
Diotreph
You are a strange fellow, and please your selfe with wonderful perswasions, but I pray you tel me, what maketh you say they are now more hated, seeing that in the last yeares, the best meanes hauehave bin vsed to establishe the ministery in a consent and conformitie vntounto them.
Paule
Let the meanes be as good as it will, I praise God for the successe of it, howsoeuer the contrary was meant.
Diotreph
Why praise you God for it, I am sure you neuer liked of it?
Paule
The meanes indeede, I neuer liked, neither I thinke, did euer any reasonable man, but it being a britle wall, dawbed with vntempered morter, had that successe that such sandie foundations do deserue.
Diotreph
Why man, what successe had it, I am sure the greatest part, yea euen of your forwardest men subscribed: and those that did not, are not like to …arry in the Church very long.
Paule
Wel, sooth vp your selfe in your own perswasion, and brag of the multitude of subscribers, if it were to doo againe, hundreds of them would neuer doo it, because they were subtilly circumuented and deceiued (they meaning well, & tendring the peace of the Church) but (being now sorie for it) wil stand in defence of the cause (I dare say for them) with their brethren, euen vntounto death: So that the Bysh, hauehave but their names written: And yet that if they would also, shew the protestations and condicions, by which they were induced, and wherof the B. made alowance, it wold plainely appeare, that either they dealt wickedly to admit exceptions, if the articles were true, or more vngodly if they were not, euer to attempt any such matter.
Diotreph
Tell me now, what is that wherein you seeme to reioice, as though the issue of it fell on your side?
Paule
It is euen this, that the Bish. straight dealing made men to looke so narrowly into the cause, and to seeke the reasons on both sides, for their owne satisfaction, that there are at this day (I am fullie perswaded) tenne times as manie of all degrees, that are fully perswaded of the matters of reformation as were before, so gracious God is vntounto his seruaunts, to make euen their enemies to do them good, and so tender is hee ouer his owne cause and glorie, that he wil make the verie meanes intended to oppugne it, be notable wayes to aduance it.
Diotreph
I do not beleeue you, albeit I cannot controll you in it, because I hauehave not bin in England of late, but what will come of it, if it be so?
Paule
Euen the gouernment of the church, by the rules of that discipline whiche Christ him selfe hath prescribed in his word, which I do perswade my selfe to see before it be long.
Diotreph
You woulde be examined before a iustice & punished, for saying you hope to see an alteration, you cannot be the Q. friend that thus looke for innouations in the state.
Paule
Examine me when you will, and punish me as God shall giuegive you leaue, I will be tried to be so far the Q. friend, as that I wish so well vntounto hir as vntounto mine owne soule, and all that I saye or desire, is not to inuert any thing in the state that is good, but to hauehave the corruption thereof remooued, and hir maiestie more honoured before God and men, in drawing more neare vntounto hir God, in aduauncing the kingdome of his sonne more gloriously within hir dominions.
Diotreph
These be but fained wordes, I do not beleeue that you speake as you thinke.
Paule
It is bicause you measure me by your selfe, who indeede care neither for Qu. Countrey, nor your owne soule, but for a Bishoppricke, but I thanke God in Christ, my conscience beareth me witnesse that they be all verie deare vntounto me.
Diotreph
Away thou railing hypocrite, I will talke with thee no longer, if I catch thee in London, I will make thee kisse the Clincke for this geare.
Paule
Indeede the Clincke, Gate-house, White-lion, & the fleet hauehave bin your onelyonly arguments whereby you hauehave prooued your causes these manie yeres, but you shall preuaile no longer, for your wickednesse is made manifest vntounto all men, which God will shortlie repay into your own bosoms seuen fold, but pray you to God to giuegive you repentance that those things happen not vntounto you.
Diotreph
Pray thou for thy selfe, and care not for mee; I knowe well inough what I hauehave to do without thy counsell, but it is your manner to teach all men.
Tertullus
Out vponupon him, what a fellowe is this my Lord? I neuer heard such a one in my life.
Diotreph
I can tell you, he gesseth shrewdlie I per eiue, that our course which wee hauehave taken, and our intent in our actions hauehave bin descried by one meanes or other.
Tertullus
My lord, it was a thing obserued in the Puritans at Geneua, and in France, while I was in Rhemes, that we could neuer inuent anie practise, for the furtheraunce of the Catholique religion, but they knew it often before wee put it in execution, so that for the moste part, they preuent all our determinations.
Diotreph
Howsoeuer it be, I am wonderfully sorie that they seeme so to triumph, and that our matters hauehave no better successe, it behoueth vsus to looke about vsus, we will speed our selues to London, to take some way in hast, least it be too late: in the meane while, I pray you tell me, for you must be my counseller whé all is done, what way you thinke best to be taken.
Tertullus
I will doo the best I can, I must first request one thing of you before I ioine to help you.
Diotreph
What is that? if it be not vnreasonable you may assure your selfe of it, for you know that I hauehave neuer bin strait laced against you nor anye of your friends.
Tertullus
I doubt not of it, but how can I hauehave it before I aske it of you? you know, that we receiued letters from England, that there were verie hard lawes made this last parliament against the Catholikes: this is it therfore I must request, that you would vse meanes that the rigour of them be not inforced, for you knowe that wee hauehave many, both in Court and countrey, that shall else bee in great danger.
Diotreph
I am verie well contented to doo so, but what way shall I take to do it?
Tertullus
Surely, such a way as shall also make greatly for your owne cause, and that is this, complaine of the domesticall, for the Puritan, and say, that they bee woorse than we, and that you shall neuer preuaile against vsus, vntill first they be suppressed, and desire that we may be let alone for a time, and that al men would bend their forces against them.
Diotreph
This is excellent, I am verie willing to do this, for it will helpe forward our owne cause: nowe go on and tell mee what is to be doone further.
Tertullus
The first thing you must take in hād, must be the suppression of those preachers in London, and in other countries that be of most speciall note, for their forwardnes against you, and you must do it verie wisly: that is, you may not suppresse them all at once, neither all of them in a long time, for you must take heede that the world do not conceiue opinion of you, to be enemies to the Gospell, for then hauehave you no way but to turne wholie vntounto vsus.
Diotreph
That will be a verie good way, but how shall we hauehave good matter against them, for their liues are thought to be very vpright, and they hauehave learned of late to be more pollitike than heeretofore: for if they speak against any thing established, they doo it so cunningly, that aduantage can not be taken against them by law?
Tertullus
Neuer doubt of that, was there euer any man that went to beat a dogge, but he could easily finde out a staffe to doo it, you must in this case preferre your safetie before your credit, or the estimation of anye that belongeth vntounto you?
Diotreph
Yea, but shew me some particulars, for I promise you, I see not how to doo it.
Tertullus
You must be sure to let none preach at Paules crosse, but they of whom you hauehave experience to like wel of you, and you must giuegive them instructions before hand, that they do inuey mightilie against the reformation that our aduersaries desire, and there wil one or other of them speake against that, and so you may hauehave sufficient aduantage against them.
Diotreph
But these fellowes be very sharpe to find a fault: What and if the matter which our friend preacheth be false, & so the other take occasion to cōfute it?
Tertullus
Then must you vrge him to defende that which he hath said, and so shal you hauehave more occasion to intrap the aduersarie.
Diotreph
But in so doing, he whome we set on worke shall lose his credit.
Tertullus
What and if he do, do you compare his credit with the waight of your Bishoprickes? There is no comparison.
Diotreph
You say true, but what if it shall fall out, that the aduersarie be not blameworthy, neither in matter nor manner?
Tertullus
If hee maintaine the controuersie it is sufficient cause to put him to silence though he hauehave the better part, for you must maintain the peace of the Church.
Diotreph
But this is not all, for how shall we do for the courte, that is the place, which aboue all we must fortifie, or els we are gone?
Tertullus
Indeede there is great care to be had of it, and there be many waies to preuent vsus there, but we will doo what we can in it. First you must take heed from time to time, what chaplains be put to the queene, seing they are the teachers of the whole court, namelie, that they be eloquent of toong, and good companions, not too precise in their conuersation.
Diotreph
It is very true, for they may els marre all, I hauehave heard some of them speake dangerouslie, euen before hir Maiestie.
Tertullus
Therefore you must take heede, that they be such as can be contented with the course of the worlde, and then if they happen to speake home nowe and then, as it is a thing incident vntounto a rethoritian to be girding, the Courtiers will neuer regarde his words, because thee see hee walketh not according to that himselfe.
Diotreph
But I am afraid that the court shal in time come to knowlege by their preaching, aod then we are gone.
Tertullus
Feare not that, I read once in a Book made by one nf the Puritanes, that if a man woulde hauehave the blessing of God (as he termed it) vponupon his hearing, hee must submit him selfe to an ordinarie teacher, which thing I promise you is somewhat: for I see, that the greatest knowledge of their religion, as in those places, and men, that hauehave that same ordinarie teacher, and therefore keepe them from any more preaching, than one sunday in the monethmonth, and that by diuers men, and I warrant you that gappe is stopped for euer.
Diotreph
It is something that you say, & I will not forget to looke vntounto it, but there is an other thing which is greater than that, which is, how wee may keepe the Queene on our side, for I hauehave often feared her, seeing (there is no question) but she is grounded in the foundation of religion.
Tertullus
Howe hauehave you kept in with her all this while?
Diotreph
Marie thus, we hauehave bene verie carefull to take heede who be admitted to preach before her in the Lent: There was one Deering, that by our negligence preached, if he and such as hee, hadde but continued the whole Lent, I am afraide, there would hauehave bene neuer a lord Bishop left in England before the next Lent had come againe.
Tertullus
That I like very well, but that is not all, they wil make books, and it can not bee but some of them doo come to hir hands, how wil you do if she like wel of them, and the matter of Discipline in them?
Diotreph
I promise you I cannot tel, you must help vsus that dead lift, or els wee are vndoone.
Tertullus
It is an easie matter to remedie, you must when you heare hir speake of such things, make hir beleeue that all is wel, and that the drift of these men is not seene, for they would hauehave no magistrare, and so would pull downe Kinges and Princes, and this wil be sure to preuaile, and make them to be esteemed the vilest men aliue.
Diotreph
Howe can I tell hir that all is well, when I hauehave bin constrained to tell diuers Preachers, that hauehave so sore vrged mee with the text, that I coulde wishe things were amended, but the Q. will not at any hand?
Tertullus
Surely, you are a very simple man (my Lorde) as though the Queene heares what you say vntounto them, or they, what you say to the Queene, you must still continue that course of excusing all things to hir, for shee beleeueth that you are learned, and lay all the blame when you talke with them on hir: for you cannot ouerthrow them by Scripture, and so you shall not onelie keepe the Q on your side, but also make the Preachers hauehave a tollerable opinion of you, that you would hauehave some thinges reformed if it lay in you.
Diotreph
That is a notable way, I will alwaies obserue and practise that, but there be many Noble men, Counsellers, greate courtiers that seeme to like well of our aduersaries: how shall we do to retaine them, or to bridle them that are gone from vsus?
Tertullus
That will be some what hard to doo: yet the best counsell I can see meete to be taken, is this: you must shewe your selues very affectious vntounto those that desire glorie and estimation, you must winke at the vices of all of them whatsoeuer they be, and not reproue them, much lesse correct them, and those of them that be needie, you must hauehave them to beg the Bishopprickes, Deanr…es, and such great places, & let them that shall hauehave them pay well for them. So shall you not onelie hauehave them beholding vntounto you for a benefite, but keepe them still on your side, in hope to hauehave the like bootie an other time.
Doitreph
This is very well, and shal be always obserued: but there is yet an other thing I heard of late, that there be verie manie Gentlemen and Gentlewomen in the Court that like vsus not, and it hath often times bene, that Kings and Princes hauehave beene induced by information of meane menne, to doo that which great Counsellours coulde not be at into their heads, how shall we do to stay the mischiefe that may come of these?
Tertullus
Easilie, you must consider that they be of two sortes, either they be such as be highly in fauor, or they be common courtiers: if they be of the former sort, you must when you hauehave oportunitie to speake to hir, tell hir, that she must take heede of such, and such persons: for though they be verie wise and discreete, because you must not dislike anie that shee liketh, yet are they (being of a good nature) deceiued, by the faire pretence of Puritans, & for them, you must saye they doo greate harme, by reason of their countenaunce in the court, with fauouring the Puritans, so that it shall come to passe, by these informations, that the Queene shall not onelyonly reiect their speeches (if they vse any against you) but also take them vp roundly, that they shall not dare to speake any more.
Diotreph
This pleaseth me at the verie heart, but how shall wee doo to be sure in the counsell table, for they are wise, and many of them like vsus but from the teeth outward, and wee hauehave receiued many a foile there?
Tertullus
That is euen the hardest of all: I know not in the whole world any way but one.
Diotreph
Tell me that one, for if once I know it, we wil say well to it but we wil bring it to passe.
Tertullus
This is it: in King Edwardes dayes, there were Bish. of the counsell: now if you could get, though it were but one to be a counseller, then might hee verie well, whensoeuer any matter of complaint came, tel the lords it pertained to ecclesiasticall iurisdiction, and he & his brethren woulde heare it at large: so might he stop their mouthes quickelie, and then hee might for fashions sake heare the cause, but send the plaintifes away with a flea in their eare. And thus very quickly woulde all complaints to the counsell cease.
Diotreph
Oh moste notable deuice, all our friends in England shal faile vsus, but we wil hauehave this take place: there is yet an other thing that must be helped, and that is the vniuersities, for they hauehave great priuiledges, and Puritans start vp there eueryevery day.
Tertullus
So there will do some, doo what you can, vnlesse you hauehave a fire and a fagot, which weapon of ours, you only lacke, and none but it: the best course that I knowe to be taken is this, let no Colledge choose his owne head, but let him hauehave a Mandamus, procured from the Queene, and see that he be such a one, as hath bene a non resident before, and let him hauehave diuers liuings: and so that will draw with it formalitie. Let him be the Q. chaplaine, or at the least broght nowe and then to preache in the Lent, and that will so set hym a gog for a Bishopricke, that you shall be sure he wil suppresse your aduersaries as they arise, and let the heades of the houses be admonished from time to time, that they choose none to be fellows that be Puritans, but such as like the estate, and for the more assurance, let them be vrged to subscribe, yea to sweare to your authoritie, before they be admitted.
Diotreph
Shall we go by Cambridge, & see this put in execution as we go?
Tertullus
Nay soft, be sure of the court, before you enterprise any other where, least you marre all.
Diotreph
You say very wel, nowe how shal we doo for the parsons and vickars, of the country that like vsus not?
Tertullus
I promise you those that be in already, will saye harde vntounto you, and those that be to come also, if they will subscribe to the articles, so far as they cō cerne faith and sacraments, the statute law fauors them too much.
Diotreph
But hauehave wee no helpe by the cannon law?
Tertullus
Yes, there is helpe inough in the cannon law, if they will take it: but I will tell you one thing in your eare, which I would not for a thousand pounds were knowne abroad, and that is this: if the statute made in the 28. of H. oct. cap. 19 and the reuiuing of it in the 1. of Elizabeth cap. 1. were thorowlie sifted, I am afraid, not any cannon law woulde be found good lawe in England, and so what would become of you, and your aucthoritie? But I know to whom I do speake it.
Diotreph
What shall we do then?
Tertullus
You must set a good face vppon the matter, and pretend law, both statute, and cannon, especially cannon, bicause they know not that they depriue them of their liuings, which if you (though they know you do them wrong) could remedy it by law, yet are not their purses so wel filled as yours, and so lacke of liuing will make them to yeelde at length, as we see it hath done many.
Diotreph
But may we not wel suppresse them, for not vsing the surplice, and booke of common praier in all points?
Tertullus
I tell you there is no law in England to hurt them, for any thing that they hauehave done concerning the surplice, the iudges hauing beene set on by you, and vsus, hauehave indited them for it, but it is more than they canne warrant by law, and as for the booke it is cleare, that the strickt keeping of it was meant against vsus, but we thanke you for turning the edge to them from vsus. Sumnaries must be your best helpe in this case, and looke that you practise it continuallie.
Diotreph
This wil do very wel, how shal we do to keepe the Ministerie from too much knowledge, for that must bee doone, though we pretend the contrarie?
Tertullus
Indeede it is a thing that you must looke narrowlie vntounto, and therefore take heed aboue al things, that the exercises of prophesie come not vp again, for you know what harme they did vntounto you in eueryevery place where they were kept, and especiallie where men were moderators therein, that had bene beyond the seas, to see the practise of thē at Geneua, and you must beware of the exercises that ministers hauehave at their meetings: for you knowe, that in Leicester-shire, they furthered knowledge greatly.
Diotreph
But how shal we do with this, the exercise of prophesie is expresly set down in the 14. Coloss. 1. to the Cor. and it is knowne, that they whome you and wee set on worke to get it forbidden, confessed since that they knewe it not, but tooke it to be foretelling of things to come, and not expounding of the scriptures.
Tertullus
You must answeare it as you do the rest of their reformatiō, the particulars where of are expressed in the new Testament: namelie, that they were things onelyonly for the time, and for them that helped you, what if they conf…ssed their ignorance, you must still excuse their exercises to bee vnlawfull assemblies, and …onuenticles to breede sectes and schismes, and your authority wil be are you out in all this and more too.
Diotreph
But what shall wee doo to make the world beleeue we woulde hauehave the ministerie learned?
Tertullus
Make them first Ministers, and set them to schoole, enioining them to g…t som part of M. Nowels Catechisme, or of Bullingers Decades by heart, and so you shall seeme to desire a learned ministerie, aswell as these reformers.
Diotreph
Wee will not faile to put this also in practize, is there any more that you knowe, that may serue our turnes, for the further establishment of our dignities?
Tertullus
No nothing of any great waight, but it may be referred to some one of these points, but the particulars of euerye braunch are many, which your owne wisedome may easily looke vntounto.
Diotreph
Then let vsus go, for I long vntill I doo set these things abroach.
Tertullus
Yet I pray you remember to do somthing for vsus poore Catholikes, seeing you stand by our help especiallie.
Diotreph
Great reason we should do so, or els were we vngratefull creatures, but you must deuise what must be doone.
Tertullus
You know that some of vsus be in prison, and others abroad, for those that are restrained, I pray you that they may hauehave their libertie of the prison, and their friendes to come to them, and when any of them come before you, that you would deale fauourablie with them.
Diotreph
Your request is verie reasonable, for the first you shal see that your friendes shall hauehave the best chambers in euerie prison, and when any Puritane falleth into our handes, you shal see him hauehave the most stincking place that can bee found. Now when any of you, yea if you your selfe come before vsus, you must be content to let vsus raile on you, & cal you traitor, & threaten you greeuously, but you shall be sure you shall sustaine smal harme, if you receiue any, you must impute it to the times and not to vsus.
Tertullus
I thank your lordship, let vsus now be going, for we hauehave tarried too long in our lodging this morning.
Diotreph
Hee neuer tarrieth too long that is wel employed, as we hauehave bene, it was the best morning that euer I spent.
Demetri
How now mine host, what say you to these iollie fellows, had not they notable talke?
Pandoch
Yes sir, I hauehave learned of them, that that will doo me good I hope.
Demetri
What is that?
Pandoch
I hauehave learned howe to course our Preacher, and hee shall be sure of it, and though it cost mee the price of a tunne of wine.
Demetri
Why, what dooth he that deserueth coursing?
Pandoeh
What? Hee setteth men together by the eares, the towne was neuer at quiet since he came, he teacheth such doctrine as some doo like, and some not, and so they fall at variance.
Demetri
I pray you tell me some particulars of the worst of all.
Pandoch
This for one: our towne standeth on vittelling, because it is a thorow-fare, and he preacheth against good fellowship (which hee calleth drunkennesse) and against playing at cardes and tables, wherein if he might hauehave his will, I and my neighbors might go on begging within one twelue-moneths, and he hath so preuailed, that I take not so much by foure poundes in a weeke, as I was woont to doo: yea I hauehave had ten shillings of one man in a weeke for drincke onelie, that will nowe scarce spend three, but I will looke vntounto him.
Demetri
Well mine hoste, deceyue not your selfe, I perceiue that you and I are in a wrong boxe, you are an enimy to the Preacher, because hee speaketh against your vnlawfull gaine, and so was I yesterday with him that tooke the same course to amend me: and I thought he had spoken falsly, because hee was a Puritan: and when I came to heare my matter debated, the bishop disalowed my course, and yet tooke my part. And why? Because I might defend him in his vnlawfull calling: But I see their ingling well inough, and if the man wyth whome I was so offended be not gone, I will talke further with him, for I perceiue that hee meant better vntounto mee than they did.
Pandoch
I perceiue we shall hauehave a Puritan of you, if you would so faine speake with him, hee is but newe gone out at the gate, you may ride after him: but as for our Preacher, I will in hande with him, because I cannot tell howe I shall else gaine and maintaine my selfe as heretofore I hauehave doone.
Dixi.