The Rescuing of the Romish Fox, Text (2 of 3)
The reſcuer
Wherefore ſeynge in all hys / ye hold ſtill / he bringethe no other diſprofe but only from the perſonage that hathe vſed thē / i paſ them ouer as of no force / and cum to hys cokkyng vponupon the clergie / when he ſayethe / What ſaye ye gentle men of the clergie / concernynge the lawes of the chirche / I ſay here your maſterſhip playeth bothe the partes / and as he ſayd at gamyng / ye wold win the game if ye played alone / And yit hauehave ye ſpent a great meny wordes in vayn / ye put no difference betwene dedes lawes and ordinances / and becauſe it were in dede a great foly / for any man by proclamation to cauſe an other mannis dedes to be called hys / as ye put your example ryght lewedly in ſardanapalus / ſo by yow it ſhall be lyke foly, to call and make an other mannis lawes and ordinances hys by proclamation / Vhere in how miche your foly is / ye euydently declare / that ether do not / or will not ſpeake the difference / but abuſe the ſimplicite of the reder / as thoughe dedes and lawes were all one / Where as in the one / it were madnes by proclamation to make an other mannis dedes hys and the other of all wyſe men uſed and obſerued / for in lawes and ordinances the Romanes ſendyng to the Grekes for them / made them by approbation thers / And there is no comon welthe / but it hath taken in ſum poynt example of an other / concernyng the lawes whiche be worthely theyrs / where they hauehave receyued thē / And amongeſt the Athenienſes / lawes made of ſolon / were not ſolones lawes / but the lawes of the city / as the text of the law ſayeth / whiche ſufficethe to reproue and confounde thys gentle mannis reſonynge / where in he wold ſeme to excell / But the man concludethe that he wolde hauehave no law but the goſpel in the chirche / whiche is ſo far out of reſon / that i will not reſon withe hym in it. And he ſemethe hym ſelf to be aſhamed of it / and / therfore takethe vponupon hym to proue ſum parte of ſuche cerimonies as we obſerue in the chirche to be repugnant to the ſcripture.
The hunter
As a fox dar not aduenture to run in the playn way / for fear of the howndes / leſte they ſhuld catche hym / but rumneth in to holes and ledethe them out of the playne way in to buſſhes brambles and thyk thornes / ſo do ye the romiſh foxis protector / for ye leap away from my argumentes and anſwer nothyng to them / but ye call me craftely away out of my argumentes to bable with yow whether dedes ordinances and lawes be all one or no / wherefore ye lordely reproue me / But i ax of yow whether a man ſaynge that the ordenyng of hally water to take venial ſynnes away / was pope Alexanders dede / ſpeakethe good and true Engliſhe or no / Is not an act and a dede all one? And call ye not the lawes and ordinances made in the parlament howſe the actes of the parlament? Why may not i then call the popis lawes hys actes ād dedes / Sothe he nothyng that makethe a law? If he do ſumthyng it that he dothe / is a dede / then if he orden a law hys law ordened is hys dede / then will not thys ſhift ſerue yow / to trifle about a worde / and let the argument alone vnſoluted / If thys worde dede do offende yow ſo ſore i wil vſe a terme more pleaſant vntounto yow / and make my argument thus / The popis ordinances and the pope ar all one then to whome ſoeuer ye gyue and attribute the popis ordinances hym as myche as lye the in yow ye make pope / but ye gyue and attribute vntounto the kynge the popis ordinances ergo as myche as lye the in yow ye make the kyng pope / Now what aduantage hauehave ye goten by refuſyng the worde dedes? As concernyng your examples fet out of the ciuile law they do not ſolute my argument / for my argument was thus / As if the kyng of Denmark ſhuld make a proclamation that all the ceremonies of Moſes law ſhuld be no more called Moſes ceremonies but hys ceremonies / yit for all that Moſes ceremonies ſhuld abyde and contynue ſtill Moſes ceremonies / for all hys proclamation / ſo the ceremonies that the pope hathe ones made / continue and abyde ſtill the popis ceremonies for all that they ar commanded by proclamation no more to be called the popis ceremonies but the kynges ceremonies / ye ſay that the Romanes ſend to the Grekes for theyr lawes and by approbation▪ made them theyrs / i pray yow remanded not the Grekes lawes ſtill theyrs / for all that the Romanes vſed the ſame lawes? Was not the Romanes and Grekes partners in lawes togyther when they vſed to gether the ſelf ſame lawes? then it folowethe for all your examples and by your examples that the popis ceremonies ar yit ſtill hys and ar occupeed in Englonde and that (by your ſayng) the kyngis hyghnes and the pope ar partners to gyther concernyng ceremonies / for the after partnerſhip diſpoſſeſſeth not the fierſt hole awner of hys former poſſeſſion / but he only gyuethe parte of hys ryght vntounto hym that is made afterward partner with hym. HaueHave ye any other thyng to conclude with your examples? If ye hauehave / make your argument and i ſhal ſhape a ſolution for it as wel as i can / I trow ye wil not be ſo mad as to argu thus on cite may receyne ciuile lawes of an other ergo the chirche may receyue lawes of the pope / Whiche is a falſe Prophete and a feruent Phariſe / when as Chriſte ſayethe in the goſpel be ware of falſe Prophetes / beware of the Leuin of the Phariſes / Where as ye ſay that i ſpeake ſo far out of reſon (where i ſay that i wold hauehave no other law in the chirche but the law of the goſpel alone) that ye will not reſon with me / ye play as your brother fox did whiche when he cam thorow a wynyarde and ſaw that the grapes we re hyer then he could reche to / ſayd he wolde eat no grapes / ſo when as my ſayng is ſtrongely defended withe goddis worde that ye can make no reſon agaynſt it / ye wilnot reſon / with me / ſcilicet / becauſye can not. Thys concluſion do ye hold that the law of the goſpel in not ſufficient for Chriſtes chirche to ordre and ruel it / except the popis traditiones be annexed ther to / and that he ſpeakethe far out of reſon that wold hauehave only the law of the goſpel in the chirche / Agaynſt thys deueliſh doctrine of yours i will make thes reſones / The law of the goſpel is miche more perfit / then the law of Moſes / But the law of Moſes was ſufficient by it ſelf for all them that was vnderunder it / and neded no mannis ordinance to be added vntounto it / to order the iewes that were vnderunder the old Teſtament / then is the law of the goſpel miche more ſufficient by it ſelf for all them that ar vnderunder it / and miche leſſ nedethe any mannis ordinances to be added vntounto it to ordre them that ar vnderunder the new Teſtament / Paule calleth the law of Moſes a child leder vntounto Chriſte / a ſhadow of good thynges for to cum / ād ſayeth that the lawe bringethe nothyng to perfection / If thys law neded nothyng to be added to it or mingled with it the law of the goſpel whiche Paul preferreth before the old law ij Corinth. in the third chapter hathe now no nede of the biſſhop of romis traditiones to be added to it or mingled with it / Is not the lau of the goſpel perfit? Is not that the moſte perfit law that the moſte perfit lawmaker makethe? made not Chriſte the perfiteſt law maker the law of the goſpel? To that law whiche is perfit in all poyntes nothyng nedethe to be added ūto it / Thē the law of the goſpel nedethe not the popis law to be added vntounto it ād ſo is the law of the goſpel ſufficient for Chriſtes chirche and Chriſtes chirch nedeth no other law but it that Chriſte ordened hys ſelf for hys chirche. Further more when as the end of a perfit law of the chirche whiche alone is ſufficiend bi it ſelf to order the chirche / is to command all thyng that is neceſſari to ſaluation to forbid all thyng that is hynderāce to ſaluation / to teache / to reproue / to correct / to inſtruct / to make aman perfit / and redy to eueryevery good work and to be ſaluation vntounto all thē that beleve / and the law of the goſpell cādo all thes thynges / what ſhall we nede to hauehave any other law in the chirche ſeinge that thys law conteneth all thyng in it that is neceſſari for the chirche of Chriſte / and hathe all the poyntes / that be long vntounto a perfit law whiche ne dethe no other law to be added vntounto it? Almyghty god told hys ſon Chriſte all lawes that was neceſſari for Chriſtis chirche / and Chriſte taught hys Apoſtelles all that he heard of hys father / ād all that the Appoſtelles learned of Chriſte neceſſari for Chriſtis chirche / they and the Euāgeliſtes hauehave writen it in the new teſtamēt whiche is the law of the goſpel / But the Euāgeliſtes ād Apoſtelles hauehave made no mētion of the popis ceremonies lawes and traditiones / therfore they ar not neceſſari for Chriſtis chirche / but the law of the goſpel is neceſſari alone / Paul ſpeaketh of thys law of the chirche thes wordes / I am not aſhamed of the goſpel for it is the pour of god to ſaluation to all that beleue. Do i yit ſtill ſpeak far out of reſon whē i wold that ōly the law of the goſpell ſhuld be in the chirche? Chriſtis religiō cam in to the world bithe worde of god ād not by mānis traditiones ād Chriſtis religione hathe frō the beginning bē vp holdē withe the worde of god and not with mannis traditiones / and the Chriſtē religiō is not groūded vpō mannis ordinances / thē the religiō of Chriſte ſhuld continue and proſper well enoghe as it hathe don frō the beginnyng to thys day if all the popis ceremonies and traditiones were in the depeſt pit of hell from whēce they cam / The ceremonies and traditiones of men hauehave euer bene hinderance to the true religion / whiche thynges cauſed Chriſte to ſay to your brother phariſees manteners of mannis doctrine as ye be / Whi break ye the commandement of god for your tradition? They worſhip me in vayn techyng the doctrines which ar the preceptes of man / then how far ſpeake yow out of reſon to ſay that the popis traditiones ar neceſſare for Chriſtis chirche / and to meane that Chriſte had nede of the popis traditiones and lawes to ruel hys chirche with all and to promote hys honor / and to purches autorite vntounto hys Sacramentes / Where as ye reſon that i ſeme to alow all thos ceremonies that i write not agaynſt / and only diſalow them that i write agaynſt / i reſon with yow agayn / if i ſeme to alow althe ceremonies whiche i write not agaynſt / then if foloweth that ye ſeme to alow all the popiſtri ad ſuperſtitiones that your conpapiſt eccius hathe taught / with all other Papiſtes / for ye hauehave not writen agaynſt them / ye ſeme to alow that i lay vntounto your charge / that ye ſay mes for to hele the frenche pox for mad dogges and meſelled ſwyne / that the hallowyng of the font is all ful of blaſphemie / that no preſte nether any man aboue xxj. may make an vnlawful vow that ye hold ſtill the ſtewes that the deuel may hauehave a place in Englond to be worſhipped in / that it is agreater offence for a preſte to mary / them to defyle all the wyues in hys pariſh eueryevery one after other / that ye intend to be aduouterers and horemongers / that ye reken it the deuellis ſeruice to rede Chriſtes worde in Engliſhe when the preſtes rede Omelias Gregorij pape in latin / that ye wold forbid Chriſte to preache / if he were in Englond thys day / as he was in ie wry / if he wold preache in Engliſhe thos ſermones of hys that the Euangeliſtes wrote in Greke / All thes do i lay to your charge in my huntyng of the fox but ye nether anſwere to them / nor examin them nor cō fute them / as ye go about to examin anſwer to and confute other matters that i lay to your charge / wherefore by your maner of arguyng which ye ground vponupon thys text / Qui tacet conſentire uidetur, ye alow and aproue all thes articles whiche i hauehave aboue reherſed.
The reſcuer
And firſt he beginnethe with the crepyng to the croſ which ceremonie he can in no wyſe digeſt / therin he laborethe ſtoutly from the beginnyng of Gramner / to the end of Logik.
The hunter
When as the crepyng to the croſſ is open idolatri / and dedly ſin / it is to hard meat for my maw to digeſt / if that ye with your companiones whiche hauehave dronken of the hote wine of fornication of the hore of Babylon / wil nedes eat it and with that wine can digeſt it / ye ſchal digeſt it alone for me / And whether my argumētes whiche i fetch not alone out of Grammer and Logik but alſo out of the holy ſcripture ar ſtronger then ye can confute be made to no purpoſ orno / let other mē iudge / which knowethe the ſcripture / and we ſhall try the mater here after.
The reſcuer
For by hys reſonyng to declare thys worde worſhip (whiche he doth right worſhipfully) it were idolatri / for the ſeruant to make curteſi to hys maſter / where in he ſhuld bow hys kne / or the good man to kiſſ hys wyfe / but to knele and to kiſſ hys ſuperiors hand / were by hym foul and filthy abominatione / for that were bothe to gether.
The hunter
If that the maſter and the wyfe / had handes and could not fele / fete and could not go / mouthes and could not ſpeake / eares and could not heare / noſes and could not ſmell eyes and could not ſe / and were as braynles and ſoulles as your croſſ is / and ſo were idoles / and therfore forbidden to be worſhipped of allmyghty god / then if the ſeruant made curteſi to … idole / or the huſbande kiſſed ſuch a wyfe / they ſhuld worſhip theyr maſter and wyfe vnalwfully and ſo commit idolatri / But when as a maſter is a lyuyng creature of god and ſeruantes ar commanded to honor theyr maſters and to obey them / and god will be knowen to be in ruelers / and that all maſters and ruelers hauehave theyr maſterſhip and autorite of hym / the outwarde kiſſing and knelyng of ſeruantes whiche ar but tokens of theyr hartes and inwarde obedience to theyr ſuperiors / is not forbidden of almyghty god but alowed / for the inwarde obedience is greater then the outwarde Curteſi / and if he alow the greater he aloweth the leſſ / And god commanded men to louelove theyr wyues / then when as kiſſyng is the ſigne or token of louelove / where the thyng is alowed / the token of the ſame is not forbidden / Therfore it is no idolatri for the ſeruant to make curteſie to hys maſter / nether is it idolatri for the man to kiſ hys wife / for nether of thos ij factes or forbidden / but ſeing that we ow no louelove nor obediance vntounto images / and the outward worſhip is in expreſſed wordes forbidden to be gyuen vntounto images in the ſecond commandment / in thes wordes thow ſhal not humble or bow they ſelfe vntounto them / nor ſerue them / it is open idolatri / to make curteſi to images and to kiſſ them / Where for it foloweth not / we may gyue outward reuerence and worſhip vntounto maſters and to kynges ergo we may gyue outward worſhip vntounto images / for if thys be your argument / ye meane that a blynde and lyfeles pece of ſyluer or gold made after the lyknes of a mortal man / by a mortal man / is as good honorable and as worthy to be honored as a maſter & a kynge whiche is the hyeſt and moſte honorable … of goddis makyng in all thys wyde wo… / and that images ar as well / to be loued as men louelove theyr w…s / and that god is as well to be honored … …ages as in kynges / and workethe and ruelethe as well by them as by kynges. Whiche meanyng whether it be agreinge ūto the ſcripture or no / let them whiche hauehave autorite in Englond to examin ſuche maters / iudge and gyue ſentence.
The reſcuer
What an argument wold▪ thys man fet out of a worde in Greke or Latin being general / to make thereby a ſpeciall concluſion to hys purpoſe Scripture vſethe the worde adoro / as the worde worſhip is vſed in Engliſhe to ſignifi godly honor / & Ioſeph fuffered hym ſelf to be worſhipped of hys brethern / withe reuerent behauour / and there is on worde adoro in bothe.
The hunter
Ether ye write uery darkly for the nons / or ellis your ſcribe hath left out ſum thyng for your reſon hangethe very euel togyther / Howbeit i reken that thys is your meanyng. The angel forbad Iohan to worſhip hym and Ioſeph ſuffered hys brethet to worſhip hym / and in …the the places is adoro / therfore adore ſignif… Both inwarde worſhip dew vntounto god and alſo outward worſhip / But what ye meane more / i cannot tell except thys be your meanyng / on kynde of worſhippynge that is out …rde reuerence / may be gyuen vntounto me… / ergo …ay alſo begyuen vntounto images / If ye meane thus your meanyng is playn falſ / for allmyghty god by who me all kynges reygne and all ruelers hauehave theyr pour / willyng that it ſhuld be knowen / that all that hauehave any gouernance ruel for au…orite ouer other / hauehave the ſame of hym alon and not of them ſelues / will be honored in hys miniſters whiche ar the gouernors and ruelers of hys peple / with outwarde reuerence and bodely honor / reſeruyng euer vntounto hym ſelf the worſhip which ſtandethe in puttyng truſt of ſaluation / and louelove aboue all other / and yit / he will that the ſubiectes ſhall not only worſhip theyr ſuperioures withe out warde worſhip / but that they ſhall louelove them withe theyr hartes / and obey thē faythfully alſo / Then when as Ioſephis brether fell down and worſhipped hym for as miche as they knew he was a prince ordened of god / they offended not god therby only ſignifiyng the inwarde obedience and ſubiection of theyr myndes / and Ioſeph being goddis miniſter offended nothyng in takyng that outwarde worſhip vntounto hym / whiche was a token of the inward ſubmiſſion of hys brethers myndes toward hym / But ſhall a Chriſten man / to whome by Chryſte / all the creatures of the world the byrdes of the ayer / the fiſſhes of the water / and the beaſtes of the erthe ar in ſubiection / and ſubdued / by outward geſture or reuerent behauoure / teſtifi and witnes that he is in ſubiection and ſubdued vntounto a mannis handeworke / to a pece of molten ſyluer or gold? Shal the lorde of all the noble creatures of god whiche ar in erthe / bow and knele to a vile pece of ſyluer or golde made after the lyknes of a man / beinge but the creature of aman? Fie for ſhame that a man know eth not hys owne dignite. Shall aman by outward reuerence teſtifi that god is in that image or workethe by that image whiche hekiſſeth and worſhippethe? Shall Chriſten men that profeſ the ſcripture teſtifi by knelyng before images that god will ether be worſhipped in images / or by images / with out ſcripture and contrari vntounto the ſcripture? Set then aſyde thys reſon we may gyue outwarde reuerence vntounto gouernoures ergo we may do ſo to images / And if ye mean that Ioan in the Apocalyps wold hauehave gyuē godly inward honor vntounto the angel / i will diſſent frō yow till that i ſe yow bring better reſones then ye hauehave brought yit. Thynk ye that Iohan that holy mā to whome god had ſhewed ſo miche of hys ſecretes / was ſo mad as to go about to gyue vntounto an angel the godly inwarde worſhip dew vntounto god alone? I iudge no / and i thynk that Iohan by hys outward worſhippyng whyche he wold hauehave gyuen vntounto the angel wold hauehave ſhewed that he tooke the angel for hys better / and ſuperior / and that the angel knowyng hys intent / and that god had not ſubdued man vnderunder angelles wold not that Iohan ſhuld reſtifi any ſubiection vntounto hym by any ſuche reuerent behauoure / and therfore ſayde Deum adora, worſhip god / that is / teſtifi by thy fallyng downe and outwarde behauour that thow art vnderunder god and that he is thy better and ſuperiour / as for me i am not thy ſuperior but thy felow ſeruant / And as touchyng the nature of thys worde adoro / grammarianes whiche can iudge beſt of the natures of wordes / hold contrary vntounto yow / that adoro is only taken for outwarde worſhip and outwarde geſture / for thus writeth the abbreuiato▪ of Valla.
Adorare eſt geſtu corporis honorem / etiam ſine ore et uoce impendere. And Valla hys ſelf ſayeth thus Adorare ſine ore hoc eſt ſine uoce fit / non ſine plicatione genuum et geſtu corporis / Elephas et Phenix et alia quedam irrationabilia ſolem adorare dicuntur. Saynt Ierom vponupon the third chapter of Daniel writeth thes wordes / Et notanda proprietas Deos coli / imaginem adorari dicunt / Quod utrunque ſeruis Dei non conuenit / The ſcripture after the tranſlation of Ierom moſt comonly vſeth adoro to gyue outward worſhip and colo to gyue godly inward worſhip / as aman may ſe both in many other places / and eſpecially in the xx. of Exodus and in the v. chapter of the Deuteronomy / then is not thys word Adoro ſo general bothe to godly inwarde worſhip and to outward worſhip aſ ye vnlearnedly without autorite hauehave pronunced. But put the caſe that odoro betokeneth bothe the kyndes of worſhippyng / he that putteth a negation before adoro in ſuche a mode as men forbid / forbiddethe nothe bothe the kyndes of worſhippyng? He that ſayeth thow ſhalt not worſhip an image when worſhip is bothe taken for reuerent behauour / and for godly inwarde worſhip / forbiddethe he not to worſhip an image with reuerent behauour? But god putteth a negation before Adoro / wherfor euen by your ſayng it is forbidden to giuegive any reuerent behauour vntounto an image / If that i dyd reſon then from a general term to a particular my argument negatiuely after good Logik ſhuld be as good as ye made any thes ſeuen yeares / for wher the generalis denied or forbidden all the ſpecialles conteyned vnderunder the generall ar alſo denied and forbidden / then if adoro as ye ſay be generall bothe to kiſ and to ſhew a reuerent behauour / and to gyue godly inwarde worſhip / when images ar forbidden adorari / to be worſhipped / then is both the outward worſchip which ſtandeth in knelyng kiſſyng and in ſuche other outwarde geſture / and the inward worſhip of the hart / is alſo forbidden to be gyuen vntounto imagines / How beit i made no ſuche argument before thys tyme for i reſoned thus a ſufficienti diuiſione / There ar no mo kyndes of worſhippyng but ij. inwarde and outward / but nether of them is to be gyuen vntounto images ergo no worſhip is to be gyuen vntounto images the probation of thys argument i fet out of the xx. chapter of Exodus where allmyghty god ſayethe touchyng images / non adorabis ea ne que coles, thow ſhal nether bow to them nor ſerue them. Thys is the ſum of my argument thoghe i reherſe not the ſame wordes / whiche whether it be yit ſoluted or no let learned men iudge.
The reſcuer
I may not worſhip the croſ in the chirche with godly honor for it is agaynſt goddis commandement but i may vſe before it reuerent behauour of whiche expreſſedly ſpak ſaynt Ierom when he ſayd / Adhererem trunco crucis nec prius dimitterem quàm ueniam obtinuiſſem.
The hunter
Ye play with allmyghty god whiche forbiddeth yow to bow and knele to images / as a certayn crafty boy did play with hys Scolmaſter in a grammer ſcoole / whiche cō manded thys boy & all other that learned grammer to ſpeak Latin one to an other at all tymes / and no Engliſhe / Thys boy as oft as he was diſpoſed to clatter Engliſhe / he took vntounto hym ād a. b. c. boy and ſayde vntounto hym / Robin i will ſpeak to the / and with thys Preface he ſpak Engliſh all the longday by thys boy to hys felowes / and ſo mokked the ſpie / an brak hys maſters commandement / But the maſter cam ones in at the laſt and ſpied hys craft / and took hym and poniſſhed hym for a ſpeaker of Engliſhe to hys felowes for all that he ſayd that he ſpak vntounto the a b. c. boy. So ye perceyuyng that ſum wold chek yow if that ye held alwayes that a man myght worſhip the croſſ it ſelf / moſt comonly ye ſay that a man may vſe reuerent behouour before the croſſ but not to the croſſ / and that ye worſhip not the croſſ it ſelf / but Chriſte / whiche is ſignified by the croſſ / when as ye worſhip the croſ it ſelf and not Chriſte / and ſum tyme hold in playn wordes that a man may worſhip the croſ it ſelf / with reuerent behauour / ſo that the hart be away / as i ſhal here after god willyng / ſufficiently proue it. Ye ſay that ye may not worſhip the croſ in the chirch with godly honor for that is agaynſt goddis commandment / If that ye will make any anſwer to apore man / tell me what is thys godly honor that is forbidden / to be gyuen vntounto images / and where and in what wordes it is forbidden? Ye meane by godly honor / as far as i can gather by your book / the inward worſhippyng of god alon / whiche ſtandeth in truſt of ſaluation and in louelove aboue all creatures / for ye ſay here after in your booke that true worſhip is only in ſprete / & that kyſſyng and knelyng is not godly honor. wher of it foloweth that your iugement is that a man may worſhip an image withe outward woſhip that is with kyſſyng of it withe knelyng and crepyng to it / Where as ye hold that outward reuerent behauour as knelyng ād kiſſyng is no parte of goddis worſhip ye ſpeake agaynſt Chriſte whiche ſayethe Matthe iiij. chapter / thow ſhalt humble thy ſelf or bow thy ſelf down vntounto thy lorde god / ād only ſerue hym / whereas humlyng or fallyng down is outward worſhip / and / ſeruing is to put confidence of ſaluation / and the inner worſhip of god / here ye may ſe that god requirethe alſo that the outward worſhip / and will not ſuffer it to be gyuen to other thē to hym ſelf and to ſuche as he will be knowen to ruel in. Whē the deuel ſayde vntounto Chriſte / Luc the iiij. i will gyue the al thes if thow wil fal doun & worſhip before me / what if that he had ſtande by / and ſayd to the deuel gyue me al that / thow promiſed Chriſte / and i wil do that thow requireſt of hym / if he promiſede & ye fell doune and worſhipped be fore the deuel / whether had ye gyuen any worſhip dew vntounto god / to the deuel or no? If that ye ſay that ye had gyuen no worſhip dew to god / vntounto the deuel / then is it noſin in your bookes to knele before the deuel and to kiſ hym ſo that your hart be away / & that a mā may worſhip the deuel with hys body ſo that he worſhip hym not with hys mynde / If that ye ſay that in fallyng down and worſhippyng before the deuel ye gaue to the deuel worſhip that was dew vntounto god / thē is worſhippyng befor the deuel worſhippyng of the deuel / and fallyng down & ſuch other outward worſhip is dew vntounto god & on kynde of goddis worſhip / thē is not alonly the godly honor whiche is in the hart / but alſo the outwarde geſture as bowyng & knelyng worſhip dew vntounto god which nether cā be dō to the deuel nor to any image with out dedly ſin / ād yit ye ſay that we maynot worſhip the croſ with godly honor / but that we may vſe reuerēt behauour before it / that is to kiſ it / to how to it ād to crepe to it / whiche is no other thing thē to giuegive at the leaſt ūto it outward worſhip whiche is cōtrari to the ſecōd cōmandement of god / If that ye wold flie to thys ſhift & ſay i worſhip & vſe renerēt behauoure before the croſ but i worſhip not it i wil proue yow by the ſcripture that to worſhip before god is to worſhip god to worſhip before a man is to worſhip a man and and to worſhip before an image is to worſhip the image / before which it is down / Geneſis iiij. Pharao made Ioſephe cum vp to hys charet / an the crier to crie that all men ſhuld bow theyr knees before Ioſeph / and know that he was made rueler ouer all Egypt. Mark here that to bow knees is to worſhip / and to worſhip before Ioſeph is to worſhip Ioſeph / and that the cauſe why that Pharao wold hauehave Ioſeph worſhipped / was that he wold let all hys peple know that hys pour and autorite was in Ioſeph / Leuitici the x. chapter. Nadab and abiu offered before the lorde / In the firſt of the kynges / xxv. chapter Abigael lyghted of hyr aſ and fell on hyr face before Dauid / and worſhipped on the ground and fel down to hys fete / ij of the kynges in the xiiij. chapter. The woman fell vponupon the grounde before Dauid and worſhipped hym / Pſalm. lxxxv. All the peple whiche thow haſt made / ſhall cum / and worſhip before / the / lorde. Eſaie. lxvi. All ſleſh ſhall cum to worſhip be fore mi face (ſayethe the lorde) Apocalypſis. v. The xxiiij. elders fel before the lam. Where Luke ſayde thes ſhall i gyue the if thow wil fal doun and worſhip before me / Matthew ſayethe i will gyue the all thys if thow will worſhip me / iij. of the kynges xix. chapter. I will leue me 7000. whos knees hauehave not bene bowed before baal / By thes places it is playn that to worſhip before god / man or image / is to worſhip god man or the image that the worſhip is don before / But ye knele bow and crepe before the croſ it ſelf ergo ye worſhip the croſ it ſelf / to kiſ with religions behauour is to gyue outward worſhip but ye with religious behauour kiſ the croſ it ſelf ergo ye worſhip the croſſ it ſelf / But what nede i any other witnes to proue that ye worſhip the croſ then your oun wordes whiche ye ſyng on good firday whiche ar thes crucem tuam Domine adoramus, lorde we worſhip thy croſſ / Neuer the leſ ye wold hauehave as long as ye could make the kyngis highnes and all hys ſubyectes beleue that ye wold worſhip before the Croſ only and not the croſ it ſelfe / But when as ye ar bet with argumentes ye leaue of your diſſemblyng and fall erneſtly to defend that the croſ may be worſhipped with reuerent behauour that is with kiſſyng it knelyng and crepyng to it / for ye ſay that in knelyng and kiſſyng alone vnderſtādyng of the croſ / is no idolatri / And that no vnlearned man in Englond ſhuld alledge any ſcripture agaynſt yow / or ſhuld percyue that the worſhippyng of the croſ with crepyng and bowyng to it / is contrari to the ſcripture ye hauehave theuiſhly / roberouſly / wikkedly & deutlyſhly ſtollē that pece of the ſecunde commandment away whiche forbiddethe to bow or gyue any outword worſhip vntounto images. For thus write yow in your new Catechiſme whiche ye call lyke a maſker as ye be the kyngis booke / Thow ſhalt not hauehave any grauen image nor any lyknes of any thyng that is in heauen aboue / or in earthe benethe / or in the water vnderunder the earthe to the intent to do any godly honour and worſhip vntounto them / Thys is your tranſlation / and in thys book where in ye examin me / ye take away from godly honor bowyngdown / fallyng down / knelyng an keſſyng / and ſuche other outward geſtures / and ſay that thes ar not forbidden to be gyuen vntounto images / but only the inward godly honour / is forbidden / And that ye myght the more eaſely bryng the lay peple vntounto your opinion ye ſteal away as i hauehave ſayde a pece of the ſecond commandment / for where as ye ſay only / thow ſhalt gyue no godly honor and worſhip vntounto images / meanyng therby the inwarde truſt and godly louelove and obediēce / and that outwarde bowyng knelyng and kiſſyng ar not forbidden to begyuen vntounto images / The truthe of the hebrue is openly agaynſt yow / for thus hathe the Hebrew text both in the Deuteronomi and in Exodo Lo chiſſtachaue Lahem velo thaauedē the lxx. interpretoures made thys text thus in Greke foreign Saynt Ierom tranſlated the hebrew thus yn to Latin / Non adorabis ea neque coles That is thow ſhalt not gyue outward reuerence to images / nether inwarde godly worſhip vntounto thē / Leo iude foloweth ſaynt Ierome / and pagnine tranſlatethe the Hebrew text thus / Non incuruabis te eis et non colestas / That is thow ſhalt not bow thy ſelf vntounto them / and thow ſhalt not worſhip them / And the Greke / word for word is thus / thow ſhalt not kiſ them nether ſerue them / wherforr ſeynge that ye hauehave ſtollen out of the Hebrew text lo thiſſtachaue / foreign out of the Greke text / Non adorabis out of ſaynt Ieromis tranſlation / Non incuruabis te / out of pagnines tranſlation / & thow ſhalt not bow thy ſelf vntounto them / out of the Engliſh bible it foloweth that ye ar a ſhamfup thiefeād hauehave committed ſhamful ſacriledge or chirche robry and ar ſo myche more worthy hangyng thē any chirche robber that was hanged in Englond thes C. yeares / as the thyng that ye hauehave ſtollen is more precious then that the other chirche robbers hauehave taken out of the chirche / in tyme paſt I gather therfore by the autorites aboue reherſed / and by thes laſt tranſlationes that to worſhip before an image is to worſhip an image / that to bow to an image ād to kiſ it is to gyue outward worſhip vntounto it / ād that it is cōtrari to the ſecond cōmandmēt to gyue ether inward or outwarde worſhip to an image / then whē as the croſ is nothyng but an image / ad ye crepe to it kiſ it ād bow to it / ye gyue it outward worſhip / ād to gyue ether owtward or inward worſhip to an image is idolatri / it folowe the that in crepyng to the croſ ād bowyng to it ye cōmit playn idolatri opēly forbidden in the ſecond cōmandment / Hold ye ſtil now no popiſh doctrine cōtrari to the worde of god? Now let us cum vntounto the ſayng of ſaynt Ierom whiche ye bryng agaydſt / me / It wold hauehave becumed a learned Biſhop to hauehave brought in a mater of religion the holy ſcripture / ād not a patche of a mannis doctrine / ye ſay that ſaynte Ierom ſayethe that he wold cleuero and not let go the poſt of the croſ til that he purdreſſed forgiuenes / Where ſayethe Ierome thys? It is lyke that ye neuer red thys in ſaynt Ierom / but ether in the canon law or ellis in ſum of your brother papiſtys workes / for ij cauſes i reken that thes wordes ar ether non of ſaynt Ieromes or ellis that ye hauehave mangled them / firſt becauſe ye mangle the ſcripture ye wil not be aferde to mangle a Doctor / and becauſ ye ſhew no place where as Ierom writeth thes wordes / the ſecond is becaws i know that Ierom in an other place is of a cleane contrari iudgment / And becauſe ye leaue the wepens of the worde of god / and feght agaynſt me withe the wepens of Doctors / i will anſwer with the ſayng of a doctor. Saynt Ierom wrytyng vponupon the third chapter of Daniel ſayethe thes wordes folowyng concernyng the worſhip of images / Siue statuam ut Simmachus ſiue imaginem auream, ut caeteri transtulerunt, uoluerimus legere, cultores Dei eam adorare non debent, Ergo iudices & principes ſeculi, qui imperatorum ſtatuas adorant & imagines, hoc ſe facere intelligant, quod tres pueri facere nolentes placuerunt Deo. Et notanda proprietas deos coli, imaginem adorari dicunt, quod utrun que ſeruis Dei non conuenit. Whether we wil rede a ſtandyng image / as ſymmachus / or a golden image as the other hauehave tranſlated / the true worſhippers of god ought not to / hūble theyr ſelues vntounto it / Therfore let the iudges and Princes of the world / vnderſtand whiche gyue outward worſhip to the ſtandyng images and likneſſes of Emperoures / that they do the ſame that the iij. childer wold not do / and therin pleaſed god / And the properti is to be marked / they ſay that god is worſhipped with inwarde worſhip and images with outward geſture. Thus far ſpeaketh Ierom / whos wordes whether they make for the outwarde bowyng knelyng and crepyng to images ar no / let them iudge whiche ether hauehave learnyng in the ſcripture or any good natural wit.
The reſcuer
Thus they delude the ſimplicite of the peple with the ambiguite of the wordes / and as uery enemies of the croſ of Chriſte they labor to extinct all wayes & meanes whiche myght ſet out the glori of the croſ / miche agreable to the turkes procedynges who forbiddeth open ſhewes or preching of Chriſtis Religion / thes men ſpeak mich of prechyng / but note well thys / they wold we ſhuld ſe nothyng in remembrance of Chriſt and therfore can they not abyde images / They wold we ſhuld ſmel nothyng in memori of Chriſte / and therfor ſpeak they agaynſt anoyntyng & hallywather. They wold we ſhuld taſte nothyng in memory of Chriſte / and therfore they cannot away with ſalt and holy brede / A ſupper they ſpeak of wich they wold handle lyke a dryngkyng. Finally they wold hauehave all in talkyng they ſpeak ſo myche of prechynge / ſo as all the gates of our ſences and wayes to mannis vnderunder ſtandynge ſhuld be ſhit vp ſauyng the eare alone / as by talkyng the deuel were ſo far onward of hys purpos to extinct Chriſte / which with the ſubuerſion of the orders of the world / ſemeth to be the mark where at thys ſect ſhoteth.
The hunter
I delude not the ſimplicite of the peple with ambiguite of wordes / as ye falſly belye me / for i alledge the ſecond commandement of god agaynſt the crepyng to the croſ and the kyſſyng of it / where as bothe the outward worſhip and the inward is forbidden / Be that ſayeth eat of no dog nether of the land nor the water / vſe the no ambiguite of wordes / which ſhuld hauehave vſed ambiguite / as it appereth if he had ſayd alone / eat no dog. Therfore whether worſhip be taken generally or by excellencie for godly worſhip i wſe no ambiguite for i declare openly that bothe the kyndes of worſhip is forbidden to be gyuen vntounto images / both it that ſtandeth in inwarde faythe and louelove / and it that conſiſteth in outward geſture as knelyng and kyſſyng and ſuch lyke / Now be cauſe ye cannot reſon agaynſt me nether with ſcripture nor naturall reſon / ye begyn ta rail agaynſt me and ſay that i am therfore an enemi of Chriſtis croſ becauſ i wil not ſuffer the croſ nether to be worſhipped with outward worſhip nor inward. If that i be therfore an enemy to Chriſte / then is almighty god an enemy to Chriſtis croſſ for he doth the ſame that i do / and it that i do i learned it of god / Se now as ye fall in to the vice that ye accuſe me of / ſum tyme vſyng the croſ for a pece of ſyluer and other whiles for the Paſſion of Chriſte / wher vntounto if he be not an enemy / that maketh hallowed ſalt equal in pour / gyuyng vntounto it Saluation of both body and ſoule / let learned men iudge / Is there any better meane in the hole world to ſet out the glori of the croſſ then the worde of god? And thys meane do we ſo exerciſe and defende that ye moke vsus and cal vsus talkers / Then / lyke vntounto a ſon of the ſhameles hore of Babylo ye lye where ye ſay that i wold extinct all the meanes that ſhuld ſet out the glori of the croſſ / Where as ye compare me vntounto the Turc whiche forbiddethe open ſhewes and preachyng of Chriſte / i meruel withe what face ye call me Turkiſh in that behaff when as ye your ſelf forbad the players of london (as it was toldme) to play any mo playes of Chriſte / but of robin hode and litle Iohan / and of the Parlament of byrdes and ſuche other trifles. Now ſyr biſſhop which of vsus ij is more lyke the Turk? The Turkes law is partely drawen out of Moſes law / partly out of Chriſtis goſpel / partly out of mahumettis fantaſes and your law that ye biſſhoppes of Englond now vſe in the chirche is partely taken out of Moſes law / partely out the goſpel and partly out of the popes decrees and traditiones / for with Moſes ye vſe outward ſacrifices to take ſin away / hallow temples and veſtimentes and purifi wymen / withe Chriſte ye baptiſe and rede the goſpel / with the pope ye crepe to the croſ forbid preſtes to mari and occupi infinite ſwarmes of ceremonies / And we receyue no manis doctrin but the word of god alone. Therfore your doynges ar more lyte the Turkes procedynges then ouris ar where as ye accuſe vſe with the Turke for forbiddyng of preachyng / ye declare your ſpret to be inconſtant and contrari to it ſelf and therfore to be of the deuel for ye accuſe vſus a litle here after for preachyng to miche. Ye blame vſe faſly wher ye ſay that we wold hauehave yow ſe nothyng in the remembrance of Chriſte / for we wold that all the peple that can rede ſhuld loke and ſe in the iiij. Euangeliſtes Chriſtis dedis and ſermones and therby call Chriſt to theyr remembrāces / we wold that the hole chirche of Chriſte / no man nor woman except ſhuld bothe ſe and receyue the ſacrament of Chriſte moſt preciouſ bloude / And ye lot vp the word of god for al the hole year from the comon peple and command all images to be couered as long as lent laſteth / and ſuffere no lay man to receyue with the preſtes the ſacrament of Chriſtis bloud in the remembrane of the bloud of Chriſte which was ſhed for vſus / therfore ye ar the blotters out of Chriſtes memori and not we. We wold hauehave Chriſtes meane / that he ordened to hold hys remembrance with in the chirche hole / that is the hole Sacramentes and the hole worde of god / to dwel richely in Chriſtis hole chirche / & ye mangle and geld the Sacramentes / and lyke made men / as it doth apere vndeſtandyng Paulis word richely / among rich men / wil ſuffer non but gentle men and riche men rede the ſcripture which myght an hunderd thowſand tymes better and with leſ ieperdy put vsus in remembrance of Chriſt then your forbidden and horiſh images do / And ſo ye do acordyng to the prouerbe ſtele agouſ and for hyr ſtik down a fether / when ye take Chriſtis worde away & one dele of hys Sacramē tes and in ſtede ther of / ſet vp blynd blokes and dum ceremonies. Will we not let yow ſmel nothyng in memori of Chriſte / becauſ we ſpeake agaynſt anoyntyng of dede carcaſes / and witched water? Who ordened that ſuch ſtynkyng oyle as youres is ſhuld be a remembrance of Chriſte by ſmellyng of it? & that ſalted water whiche hath no ſmell at all / the firſt day / and with in ſix dayes that it is ſalted yit ſtynketh ſhal by the ſmellyng of it put vsus in remembrance of Chriſte? Will we not let yow taſte nothyng in memory of Chriſte becauſ we ſpeak agaynſt the coniuryng of ſalt / What ſhuld we do with your ſalt when as it is al vn ſauery and / hath no taſte of the worde of god? Chriſte ſayeth that ſalt when it is vnſauery is good for nothyng but to be caſt out of dores to be treden with mennis fete. We vſe to gyue the Sacrament to all that wil receyue it / eueryevery monethmonth and in ſum places eueryevery ſonday in the remembrance of our ſauiour Chriſte and ye gyue a bit of comon brede in the remembrance of the Sacrament / who holdeth Chriſtis memori better? What ie wiſhe and dull Phariſees ar thes that ether wil not / or can not be cantent withe the holy worde of Chriſte and hys Sacramentes to bryng Chriſte to theyr memories that they may thynk on hym except they ſmel ſum thyng to remembr▪ hym and taſte ſum thyng alſo to remembre hym thereby / I neuer red of more fleſhy Phariſees in my lyfe then thes be. Thes be the moſte forgitful felowes that i hauehave heard of. To that where ye ſay that we ſpeake of a ſupper and wold handle it lyke a drynkyng / i anſwer that we do not only drynke but alſo eat at Chriſtis ſupper / and ſo handle it / as Chriſt taught vsus in hys worde / with out any players garmentes or popiſh knakkes and foliſhe iuglyng toyes whiche after the ordinance of the pope ye put to it / ye handle it not lyk Chriſtis ſupper but lyke a doggis dinner / and both do it and ſay it a miſ / In ſayng that we wold hauehave all thyng in talkyng and wold ſhit vp all your ſences ſauyng hearyng / ye do nothyng ellis but mok Chriſte / whiche ordened no other meanes to in gendre fayth in vsus and to call vsus to remembrance of hym / ſauyng only hys word and hys Sacramentes / Becauſ ye thynk that Chyriſtis worde and Sacrament ar not ſufficient for the purpoſes aboue reherſed / and reken your ſelues wyſer then Chriſte / ye hauehave for a great parte put a way Chriſtes ordinances and ſet other as ye thynk better in theyrſtede / to put vsus in remembrance of Chriſte / and to ſtir vsus vp vntounto godlynes / It is lyke that yf ye had ben lyuyng in Chriſtis tyme with your felow Phariſes and had heard Chriſte ſayng vntounto hys Diſciples go in to all the world and preache the goſpel to eueryevery creature / ye wold hauehave layde what meaneth thys man ſo erneſtly to gyue commandment of preachyng and teachyng / belyke thys man wil hauehave all thynges don with talkyng / and not with ſuch laudable and ſemely ceremonies as Moſes and our for fathers hauehave deuiſed / Where ye ſay the Mark that we ſhote at / is to extinct Chriſte and the orders of the world / i anſwer▪ that we go not about to extinct Chriſte but to ſet hym vp whome ye with your wordly orders hauehave long holden down as mich as lay in yow. Chriſte is not bilded vponupon your polytike orders of the world as ye ſuppoſe / nether at the fallyng of them ſhuld he fall which is bylded vponupon a ſtronger fundacion / for we hauehave put down viij. of your orders of the world / iiij. orders of freres / ij. of monkes & ij of chanones / & yit is not ther with Chriſte extinct but rather brought more to lyght / There remayne yit ij orders of the world in Englōd vn put down / that is the order of pōpoſe & Popiſhe Biſſhoppes / & Greue freres / whiche if they were put doū as well as the other ar put doun before / i rekē that there ſhuld be no kyngdō in the world where in Chriſte ſhuld more reygne then in Englond.
The reſcuer
But to the purpos of the wordes worſhip in Engliſh and Adoro in Latin may be the phraſe in ſcripture / admitt both the ſignificationes of godly ſeruice and reuerent behauour / ſhall i ſay that wher godly honor is forbidden reuerent behauour is alſo forbidden / and by alterynge the ſignification iuggle and mok with the peple / of whiche ſort be manny of theyr argumentes made / afterward as i ſhal ſho in theyr places. Scripture ſumtyme, by the outer geſture expreſſ in ſpeche the godly honor as in kiſſyng and knelyng / And not becauſe kiſſyng and knelyng is the godly honor / but becauſe it was the expreſſyng of the inwarde affection / with whiche when kiſſyng and knelyng is ioyned directly to the thyng kiſſed or kneled vntounto it / is in dede idolatri / But if kiſſyng & knelyng be ſeperat from that opinion / then is it not idolatri / for as trew worſhip is only in ſprete and procedeth from rhe hart / ſo doth idolatri procede from the hart alſo. So that in only kiſſyng or knelyng can not be idolatri / as thys gentle man wold go about to perſuade by ſuch Logical collation as he wolde ſeme clerkly to make vponupon the ſignificatioo of the worde.
The hunter
Althyng is to be vnderſtand acordyng vntounto the mater that is in handes / ye wote that i intreated thys queſtion / whither the croſ myght be worſhipped with knelyng crepyng and kiſſyng of it or no then anſwer i that to what ſoeuer image or lyknes the godly honor is forbidden to be gyuen / reuerent behauour is forbidden to be gyuen vntounto the ſame / for allmyghty god in hes wordes forbiddeth bothe godly honor and reuerent behauour to begyuen to images. Non incuruabis te eis ne que coles eas, Thow ſhalt nether bow thy ſelf vntounto them nether gyue godly worſhip vntounto them / your queſtion is therfore lyke your ſelf vnlearned and ful ether of ignorance inſcripture or of wil ful malice agaynſt the truthe. As concernyng iugglyng withe the ſignification of wordes / whiche ye lay falſly vntounto my charge / he that knoweth your maners and myne bothe / wold thynk that yow ar the ryght iugler and not i / ye iugled ouce at poulis croſ in an open audience / deorſum in to retrorſum, and in your inſtitution of a Chriſten man ye iugled quite away from the ſecond commandment non incuruabis te, and out of the properties that belong to a Biſſhop ye iugled away unius uxoris maritum eſſe, on palme ſonday ye iuggle wylow bowes in to date trees / who is nou the iuggler? If that kyſſyng and knelyng be no godly honor but only the expreſſyng of the inwarde affection / when as goddis honor is goddis ſeruice / then it foloweth that knelyng and kyſſyng for as miche as they ar not goddis honor they ar not goddis ſeruice / then they that knele to the croſſ on good friday and kiſſ it ſerue not god / there with / why call yow then thys crepyng and knelyng goddis ſeruice? Whi compel ye theu all men to the crepyng to the croſſ as to goddis ſeruice whē as here in thys booke ye grant that it is non of goddis ſeruice? Where as ye ſay that when kyſſyng and knelyng is directly ioyned with the inward affection to the thyng kiſſed or kneled vntounto / it is idolatri but if knelyng and kiſſyng be ſeperated from that opinion it is no idolatri / I ax yow if that ye ſhuld kyſ the kyngis hand & kneled to hym with your inward affection ioyned direct vntounto the kyngis hyghenes / ſhuld ye commit idolatri in dede? If ye dyd the ſame vntounto Chriſte ſhuld ye alſo commit idolatri in dede? If that ye anſwer that ye meane of kiſſyng of images and knelyng to them / then hauehave ye declared playnly at length that it is no idolatri to kiſ an image it ſelfe and to knele to it ſelf / if the inward affection be away from the kiſſyng and knelyng / but i hauehave proued before that knelyng and kyſſyng of images is worſhippyng of images / therfore ye hold that it is no idolatri to worſhip images with outward reuerence / ſo that the hart be ſeparat from the worſhippyng. A litle before lyke a craſty for ye ſayd thes wordes i may vſe reuerent behauour before the image of the croſſ / as thoghe ye wold not that certayn wyſe men ſhuld know that yow held that the croſ it ſelf ſhuld be worſhipped / & now ye ſay that when kiſſyng and kneling is ſeperate from the opinion / ſcilicet of the croſſ / then is it no idolatri / that is to wit to kiſſ the croſſ it ſelf and to bow to it / your mynde is knowen for all your diſſemblyng and your crafty maſkyng / All thoghe i hauehave fufficiently before confuted thys your opinion that aman may worſhip images with outwarde worſhip whiche ye call reuerent behauour / withe the autorite of the ſecond cōmandment of god which forbiddeth both the worſhip of the hart and of the body to begyuen vntounto images yit i will bryng an example out the holy ſcripture to ſtreyngthen and make more clere my former confutation. Nebuchadnezar as it is writen in the third chapter of Daniel / made agolden image lx. cubites hie / and ſix cubites brode / and commanded all men that were with in hys dominion in payne of dothe to worſhip thys image with outwarde worſhip infallyng down before it / and makyng ſuch geſtures as worſhippers of images vſe to make / But Sadrach / Meſach / and Abednego wold not worſhip it / the kyng ſayde vntounto them. Is it trew that ye do no godly ſeruice vntounto my god / nether wil worſhip the golden image whiche i hauehave ſet up? If that ye wil yit fal down & worſhip the image which i hauehave made (ye ſhal hauehave pardon) but if ye wil not worſhip it / the ſame houre ſhall ye be caſten in to aburnyng fornace of fyre / to whome they anſwered / o kyng we wold that thow ſhuld know / that we do no godly honor to thy goddes / nether / will we worſhip with outward worſhip the image that thow haſte ſet vp. And then the kyng cauſed them all iij. to be caſten in to the burnyng furnace / but god delyuered thē wonderouſly out of the fyre ſafe and ſound / Now do i ax yow whether thes iij. men myght hauehave gyuen reuerent hebauour as bowyng kiſſyng & knelyng to thys image / with out dedly ſin / & myght hauehave directed they: hartes vntounto god / that the kyng knew not of / and ſo hauehave eſcaped the burnyng fornace / or no? If ye anſwer that they myght hauehave gyuen reuerent behauour vntounto the kyngis image with out dedly ſin ād myght hauehave directed the inward worſhip of theyr hartes vntounto the lyuyng god / that the kyng knew not of / and ſo with out ieperdy myght hauehave eſcaped the fornace / then was thes iij. euel men / and dyd break goddis commandment / which ſayeth thow ſhalt not tempt thy lorde god / that is thow ſhal not put thy ſelf in ieperdy where no nede requirethe / and thow ſhal require no miraculouſ help of god where as theyr ar naturall meanes enow. But if ye anſwer that all thoghe they had directed theyr hartes vntounto god that neuer the leſſ they could not with out dedly ſin hauehave kiſſed that image and kneled bowed and gyuen out ward worſhip vntounto it / and that they were alowed of god becauſe they wold in no wyſe worſhip that golden image / then ye do noughtely and diſpleaſe god in doing it to an image that good men and alowed of god had leuer be burned in a fornace of fyre then to do to an image / They wold not worſhip a mannis image with outwarde reuerence / and ye both do outward reuerence vntounto images and in payn of death compell other men as Nebuchadnezar did / to worſhip a mannis image. If the iij. iewe… that chuſed rather to be burnt then to worſhip a mannis image / were of god / then ye that both worſhip your ſelues / and compell other / in payne of burnyng to worſhip a mannis image / with outward reuerence / ar of the deuel / If ye excuſe and ſay that it is not alone a mannis image but bothe goddis image and mannis / i ſay that the image of god in the ſeconde commandement is as myche forbidden to be made and worſhipped with any kynde of worſhip as mannis is / for thes ar the wordes of the ſecond commandment / thow ſhalt make the no grauen image nether any lyknes of of any thyng in heuen aboue nether in earth be nethe nether of any thyng that is in the waters vnderunder the earthe thow ſhalt nether humble thy ſelf vntounto them nether ſhalt thow do any godly ſeruice vntounto them god is in heuen therfore hys image is as wel forbidden to be made (if it were poſſible to make an image of hym) ād to be worſhipped with outward reuerence as amannis images which is in earth is forbidden to be made & worſhipped. HaueHave ye not now ſeduced the hole realme teachyng all men there in that they may worſhip the croſ with outward reuerent behauour as with knelyng and kiſſyng when as it is proued open idolatri? Where ye ſay as trew worſhip is only in ſprete / and procedeth from the hart ſo doth idolatri procede from the hart alſo / it foloweth that all your ſenſyng / knelyng crowchyng / croſſyng / ſyngyng of meſſes dirges mattens and euenſonges which ar don in and by the body ar no tru goddis ſeruice but falſ ſeruice. And agaynſt your compariſon i ſet thys cōpariſon that foloweth here / As the chefe confeſſyng of Chyiſte is in the hart and with good warkes & not withſtandyng if a man wil not confeſ Chriſte, to be the ſon of god with hys mouthe when the confeſſion of the mouth is required / but deni Chriſt with hys mouth / or confeſſeth an other to be Chriſte then Ieſus / Chriſt ſhal deni hym before hys father in heuen / ſo althoghe the worſhippyng of an image with the hart be the wors idolatri / yit for all that / the outward worſhippyng of an image with the body with outward geſture muſt nedis be idolatri / for what ſoeuer is contrari to the ſecond commandment muſt nedis be idolatri / but to bow and knele vntounto an image is contrari to the ſecond cōmandment / therfore it is idolatri where ſoeuer ye fayn your hart to be / Anſwer me if it pleaſ yow to thys queſtion / Denied peter Chriſte with hys hart / or with hys mouth alon? If he denied hym with hys mouth alone and yit that denying was dedly ſin / then if a man ſhuld worſhip an image with hys body alone and not with hys hart he ſhuld committ dedly ſin for as Chriſte will hauehave both the confeſſion of the hart & alſo of the mouth / ſo dothe he forbid both to worſhip an image with your hart and alſo with your body. Where ye ſay that in only kiſſyng and knelyng cannot be idolatri i grant it is true as long as they ar applyed to nothyng / but when kiſſyng & knelyng ar applied to images wherto god forbad thē to be applied / in only kiſſyng of images & knelyng to thē / may idololatri be cōmitted. But teach vsus now great maſter doctor how can a man break goddis cō mandement / and yit louelove god with hys hart and hauehave hys hart with god? When as Chriſte ſayeth he that loueth me will kepe my worde / Then how can a man break thys cōmandment / bow not thy ſelf vntounto images and yit louelove god with hys hart whos commandment he breake…h with hys body? Let therfore learned men iudge how wiſely yow hauehave made your diſtinctiō inſeparatyng the breakyng of godpis commandment from the hatred of god / Is a mānis hart theyr where he hateth? Nay A manys hart can not be with hym whome he hateth / But a worſhipper of images with bowyng & knelyng hatethe god wihlſ he breaketh hys cō mandmēt / therfore / the hart of hym that boweth and kneleth vntounto images can not be with god.
The reſcuer
And yit to ſtreyngthen hys argumēt he bringeth in the deuellis ſayng as he doth in other places to ſet furth hys madnes / but what ſhuld i reſone with thys man of cre pyng to the croſſ / that goeth about to proue ryght wiſly / that we may hauehave no images at all which if he cold do / it ſhuld ſerue wel for hys purpos to proue that we ought not to worſhip the croſſ / if he could proue that antecedēt, hys conſequent were inſoluble.
The hunter
They that in Englond had leuer eat accornes then good wheat brede & wil not change theyr olde mumpſimus with the new ſumpſimus thynk that ye ar the greateſt clerk in Englond / but eueryevery man that is not blynde may ſe that ye ar ſhamfully vnlearned in diuinite / and not able to anſwer any thyng apparently wel to an argument / and therfore trifle lyke a wanton boy and / anſwere neuer a worde to my argument / And becaus all men may ſe your hye learnyng i wil reherce my argument / that they may compare it with your anſwer. If it be not lawful to make an image and to hauehave an image it is not lawful to worſhip an image had and made. But the ſcripture forbiddeth to make and hauehave images / then myche more it forbiddeth to worſhip them / Thys was my argument / and thus did i proue by ſufficient autorite of the holy ſcripture that it was not lawful to make and to hauehave images. It is writen xx. chapter of Exodus / Thow ſhalt make the no grauen image nether any lyknes of any thyng that is in heuen a boue nether in earthe benethe nether of them that ar in the waters vnderunder the earthe / thow ſhalt nether bow thy ſelf vntounto them nor do any ſeruice or godly honor vntounto them. The ſame wordes ar writen in the fift chapter of the Deuteronomi And Leuitici the xxvj. it is writen make yow no idoles nether any grauen image / nether ſet vp any ſtandyng image for yow / nether ſhal ye ſet any figured ſtone in your land that ye may worſhip it / Allmyghty god ſayeth alſo Deuteronomij the iiij. chapter thes wordes by hys ſeruante Moſes. Ye cam and ſtood vnderunder the hil / but the hil burned in afyre to the middes of heauen / where was darknes cloudes and miſt / and the lorde ſpak vntounto yow out from the middes of the fyre / and ye heard in dede the voyce of the wordes but ſaw no image ſauyng the voyce alone / Therfore euen as ye louelove your own ſoul ſo diligently take ye hede (for ye hauehave ſene no image at all on that day that god ſpak with yow in the hill / out of the middes of the fyre) leſt by chance ye ſhuld do amiſ in makyng yow a grauen image what ſoeuer lyknes it beareth of aman or a womā / or the lyknes of any beſte that is on the earth / or the lyknes of any fethered fowel in the ayer or the form of any thyng that crepeth vponupon the erthe or the lyknes of any fiſh that is in the waters vnderunder the earthe / And leſte thow ſhuld lift vp thy eyes in to heuen and ſe the ſon and the moune & the ſterres with the hole company of heuen and fall down / and ſhew reuerent behauour or do any godly ſeruice vntounto them / which the lord thy god hath gyuen vntounto all peple that ar vnderunder the hole heuen. And in the xxvii. Acurſed be the man who ſo euer he be that maketh ether a grauen or a caſten image / the abomination of the lorde / the werk of the artificer / & ſetteth it in a pryuy place. The wyſe man in the xiij. chapter of hys book curſeth alſo bothe the image and the image maker. Thus dyd i reſon with yow with thes places of holy ſcripture / Whiche places if ye wold hauehave anſuered to i ſhuld hauehave obteyned it that i deſyred that is / that thes places at the leſte proued ſubſtancially that it is not lawful to make any image and to gyue any worſhip at al to it / nether knelyng nor bowyng nether any inwarde worſhip of the hart / for euen ſo erneſtly as the images ar forbidden to be made ſo er neſtly ar they forbidden to be worſhipped with outwarde geſture and with inward honor / If that ye had anſwered that images had ben forbidden to be made ether to be worſhipped with outward worſhip or with inwarde / i wold hauehave cōcluded that when the image of the croſ is an image that ye do wrong to make it / and to gyue any worſhip at all vntounto it / ether inwarde or outwarde / But ye knowyng aforehād of thys concluſion / & wantyng wepens to auoyd it / anſwer nothyng to my argument / but ſay that if i could proue my antecedent that we myght hauehave no images that then it folowed that we myght not worſhip the croſſ / as ye wold hauehave ſayd / ſo long ſhall it be lawful to worſhip the croſſ as ye cannot proue that ye ſhuld hauehave no image / but that ſhal be euer vnproued / therfore for euer ſhal it be lawful to worſhip the croſſ. Then ſeing that i perceyue that ye will not leue the worſhyppyng of images ſo long as ye hauehave them / to dryue away the worſhyppyng of images i am cōpelled to labor to proue that we that ar Chriſtē mē ſhuld hauehave no images at all in the place of worſhyppyng / & prayer / namely theyr where as images hauehave ben worſhipped may be worſhipped / & in ſuch places where as the worſhippyng of images with outward geſture is erneſtly defended / ye ſay that if i could proue my antecedent that my conſequēt were inſoluble / Is ther any more ſufficient probation thē the holy worde of god is? I hauehave brought vj. places out of the worde of god wher in all mē ar forbiddē to make images / then hauehave i ſufficiētly proued that it is not lawful to make images. If ye require the ſum of altogether in an argumēt thus do i make my argumēt / What ſoeuer allmyghty god forbiddeth is vnlawful / but almyghty god forbiddeth to make images / therfore it is vnlauful to make images / cā ye hauehave any playner forbiddyng thē thys is / non facies tibi ſculptile, how ſhalt make the no grauē image? Is not my antecedēt yit proued? Now let vsus ſe what places of ſcripture ye can bryng to proue that Chriſten men may hauehave images. In your inſtitution wrytyng vponupon the ſeconde commandment ye ſay thes wordes / Thow ſhalt not hauehave any grauen image to the intent to do any godly honor vntounto it. By thes wordes we ar not forbidden to make or to hauehave ſimilitudes or images / but only we be forbidden to make or to hauehave them to the intent to do godly honor vntounto them / as it appareth in the xxvj. chapiter of Leuiticus. Thes ar your wordes All that ar learned men may ſe how ſhamfully ye play the thief here and how vnlearnedly ye handle the ſcriptures for thes wordes of the xxvj. chapter of Leuiticus / non facietis ut adoretis, ar no other wiſe to be expounded then thes wordes of the iiij. chapter of the Deuteronomi / non uidist is imaginem ne forte decepti faciatis, ne adoretis & colatis. Therfore wher allmyghty god ſayeth thow ſhalt make the no image that thow may worſhip it / is as miche to ſay as thow ſhalt make the no image leſte at any tyme / thow may chance to worſhip it / Expoſition of ſcripture bi it ſelf hathe hither to allwayes bene alowed of wyſe and learned men / and is and will be alowed / then if ye be learned and wiſe ye will alow thys my expoſition / But i pray yow where learned ye thys new Logik of a negatiue antecedent to bryng in an affirmatiue conſequent? for thus ye gather i may not make an image to worſhip it ergo i may make an image / ſcilicet to be a laymannis boke / There is a father which hath a childe which hathe wounded hym ſelf oft tymes with a ſharp poynted knyfe / he forbiddeth hys ſone to weare any more a ſharp poynted knyfe / leſte he ſhuld hurt hym ſelf ther with / the child with the next money that he gitteth byeth hym ſelf a ſharp poynted knyfe / & weareth it / the father blameth the childe for breakyng of hys commandment the child alledgyng that he weareth hys knyfe to defend hym ſelf from dogges / ſayeth that he breaketh not hys fathers commandment / and that he weareth the knyfe not to hurt hym ſelf with all / but to defend hym from dogges ther with. Whether breaketh thys child hys fathers cōmandment or no? Whether ſhuld thys argumente of the childe folow wel or no? I am forbidden to wear a ſharp poynted knyfe leſte i ſhuld hurt my ſelf with all / ergo i may wear a ſharp poynted knyfe to defend my ſelf with all. Ther is an other father whiche hathe many ſonnes / and he ſayeth vntounto hys ſonnes i cō mande yow all in the name of god that none of yowly with any of my ſeruantes leſte ye catche the pox of them / Iudas lyethe with dromo whiche hathe the frenche pox as all the other ſeruantes hauehave / when the father blamed Iudas for ly inge with dromo / were thys excuſe of the childes to be alowed or no? father ye forbad me to ly with any of your ſeruantes to the intent that i ſhuld catche the frenche pox / but ye forbad me not to ly with the ſeruantes to learne of them / all be it dromo hauehave the pokkes and many hauehave taken the pox of hym / i am not ſuch a fool as to take thē of hym i can kepe my ſelf wel enoghe / Moreouer Dromo is wel learned and can teache me many good leſſones and your ſteward both counſeled me and commanded me to ly with hym that i myght / as i lay with hym / learn to ſpeake latine / Wold not a wiſe father ſay thow fooliſh boy / why haſte thow broken my commandment? Art thow wiſer then i am? how canſt thow lye with hym that hathe the french pokkes runnyng vponupon hym and not be infected ther with? How canſt thow auoyde the pox and ly with hym / the whiche thyng all other that lay with hym hyther to could not auoid? What promiſ or priuilege haſt thow mor then other / granted the of god / that thow may ly with hym with out ieperdy when all other take the pox of hym? When thow haſte no promiſ nor priuilege of god / and haſt put thy ſelfe in ieperdy of takyng the pox with out any nede / thow haſte both broken goddis commandment in temptyng of god and alſo myn which for bad the to ly with any of my ſeruantes / As for the ſtewardes counſel & commandment it is not to be kept when my commandment is contrari. As touchyng the learnyng that thow ſayeſt thow may learn of hym / what madnes is it to learne it of an vnlearned pokky driuel withe in auoidable ieperdi of the frenche pox / that thow mayſt with out ieperdy learn of they elder brother / whome i hauehave apoynted to be thy Scoolmaſter who is an hunderd ſold better learned then dromo is / Thynk ye then that thys vſe of images in the chirche which hathe bene the occaſion of mich abominable idolatri as the images lately burned and broken in Englond do teſtifi / will be alowed of god the father in the day of iudgement? i thynk no. Was not images in the chirche a certayn ſeaſon before they were worſhipped? And fell not the peple by hauynge of them to the worſhippyng of them? then can they not be h…d with out ieperdy as the images lately broken in Englond bear witnes / If they were no peril of idolatri in hauyng of images what neded Iohan to hauehave ſayd in hys firſt Epiſtel beware of images / The wiſe man ſayethe that images ar made to the iniuri of god to be ſtumblyng blokkes or mouſ trappes for mennis ſoules / and to ſnare the fete of the ſimple in / and that / Initiuns ſcortandi excogitatio ſimulacrorumest, & corundem inuentio uitae corruptela, Ne que erant ab initio nec in aeternum manebunt. The fyndyng out of images is the begynnyng of fornication / and the inuention of the ſame is the deſtruction of lyfe / Nether hauehave they bene from the beginnyng nether ſhal they continue for euer. Then the chirch can not hauehave images with out ieperdy. And that we nede no images in Chriſtes chirche it is caſy to proue for the ſcripture teacheth the chirche all thyng that is neceſſari for it / What thyng can a blynde bloke or ſtone do withe ieperdy but a preacher of goddis worde can do the ſame? Can an image teache any example of faythe of hope charite / humilite / liberalite patience or of any other vertu but a Chriſten preacher both can do the ſame & dothe the ſame manyfoldes myche better & with out any peril of ſpiritual fornicatiō / How can an image teache faythe with hyr example whiche hathe non at all / & when as true faythe cummeth of hearyng of goddis worde how can the dum image teache fayth whiche cannot ſpeak one worde of god? How ſhal the image teach' charite that loueth no mā? How ſhal the image teach humilite that boweth to no man / or liberalite that gyueth nothyng? or patience whiche ſuffereth nothyng? Then if ye wolde let the ſcripture go abrode in to eueryevery mannis hande / and make your preſtes as diligēt in preachyng as they ar byſy in vn profitable playes & ſhewes of ceremonies / or if ye wold admitt none to be preſtes but ſuche that were as able to teache / as blynd images ar / we ſhuld nede no images at all in the chirche / no more then / ther was in the primatiue chirche. Then when as images cannot be in the chirche without ieperdi of idolatri as ye bear witnes your ſelf which wil ſo long gyue outward worſhip vntounto images whiche is idolatri / as ye hauehave images in the chirche / and we nede them not / and may want them well / and to put one ſelf in ieperdy where no nede is / is to tempt god / & that is ſin / it foloweth that it is not lawful to hauehave images in the chirche / namely where theyr worſhip is defended and where men hauehave vſed and vſe ſtill to abuſe them / and gyue to them outwarde worſhip as ye do. Thes few reaſones hauehave i brought be cauſ i wold not be long / i could hauehave brought out examples out of hiſtories & alowed writers and out of the ciuile lawes of Emperoures to hauehave proued that images hauehave bene forbidden to be in the chirche / but i differ them vntil an other tyme / If i ſe not the abuſes of images taken away intendyng to bryng them with all the reaſones that i can make. Brynge ye now as many reſones for the hauyng and outward worſhip of images as i hauehave brought agaynſt them or ellis chyde out your parte / or procure that my book may be forbidden to be red that ye ned to take no ſuche importable payne vponupon yow or ellis grant that ye hauehave bene deceyued and defended vnlawful doctrine.
The reſcuer
And ſo is not hys laſt concludyng argument / whiche he calleth hym ſelf not eaſy to aſſoyle / whiche is thys we myght not worſhip the angel Peter and Poul being the better / ergo not the croſſ beinge of leſſ eſtimation then Peter or Paul / I to aſſoyl the matter eaſely ſay the man vſeth ſophiſtri in the worde worſhip / for if he take worſhip to ſignifi reuerent behauour then i ſay that the antecedent is falſ / and if he will it ſignifi godly honor it is trewly ſayd / but nothyng to the purpoſe / .
The hunter
If that to ſay that a… man vſe the ſophiſtri in a worde not able to proue it / were a ſufficient ſolution of an argument indede it were an eaſy thyng to ſolute an argument / but it is not ſo eaſy to ſolute my argument as ye thynke ye know that i diſputed withe yow before of outward worſhip / of the croſ / & that ye wold hauehave it gyuen to the croſſ and that i held that it ſhuld not be gyuen to the croſ your diſtinction is therfore vayn and interlaced with a lye / And as for my antecedent i proue it thus / No trew ſeruant of god forbiddeth any thyng that is lawful / but Peter Paul and the angel forbad men to fal down before them ond to do ſuche outward worſhip vntounto them as ye do to the croſ / and they were trew ſeruantes of god / therfore it was not lauful for men to fall down before them and to do ſuche outward worſhip vntounto them as ye do vntounto the croſſ / Moreouer / ether muſt ye ſay that Cornelius & Iohan were damnable idolaters / or ellis that they gaue only outward worſhip vntounto thē whom they took not for god but for / theyr ſuperioures ſet in hyer dignite autorite then they were / for to fall down before a man or angel and to gyue to the man or the angel godly honor is playn idolatri / whiche honor if Cornelius or Iohan hauehave gyuen vntounto Peter and to the angel / it can not be denied but they were idolaters.
The reſcuer
For nether Paule nether the croſ can be worſhipped with godly honor.
The hunter
If that a calf made of gold may be worſhipped with godly honor / and an other man may be worſhipped with godly honor / the croſ and Paul may be worſhipped withe godly honor but the golden calf that aaron made was worſhipped withe godly honor exodi the xxxij when as the peple ſayde vntounto it Behold o Iſrael here ar thy goddes whiche hauehave brought the out of Aegypt. That images hauehave bene worſhipped with godly honor / alſo it is playn by the firſt chapter of the Epiſtel to the Romanes. Where as it is writē / Whē they beleued that they were wiſe / they were made / fooles & hauehave changed the glori of the in corruptible god / by the lyknes of an image of a corruptible man. In the xij. chapter of the actes the peple whiche ſpak thus of Herodis voice / It is the voice of god & not of man / gaue vntounto hym godly worſhip / & becauſ he gaue not the glori vntounto god he was eaten to deathe with wormes. Then may the image of the croſſ and Paule be worſhipped withe godly honor / furthermore what ſhuld allmyghty god nede to forbid men to gyue godly honor vntounto men and images if men & images cold not be worſhipped (as ye ſay) with godly honor? Let thē that hauehave autorite to inquere of hereſies loke whether thys mānis ſayng is hereſi or no / If it be holdē ſtifly it muſt nedis be hereſi for it is cōtrari to the opē text of the ſcripture.
The reſcuer
In ſpeakyng agaynſt holly water / whiche he entendeth to impugne / the mannis malice putrefieth for lak of ſalt / whiche he cannot abyde to be ſanctified by the inuocation of the name of god.
The hunter?
In my former book / i hauehave ſufficiently confuted the deuelliſh coniuryng of hally water / and vncouered the crafty iugglyng of the papiſtes / whiche on while / ſayd that they held it ſtil in the chirche in the remembrance of Chriſtes blood / and an other while / to dryue deuelles away / to put venial ſynnes away / and to heal all ſykneſſes. The cauſ whye that thys proctor of the pope manteyneth thys hally water ſo er neſtly is / becauſe hys holy father alexander ordened it and commanded all popiſhe preſtes as gardiner is to make it not to be a remēbrance of Chriſtes bloode and of our baptim but to purge men from ſin as hys wordes that ordened it do teſtifi in the boke of the popis decrees / Aquam ſale conſperſam▪ populis benedicimus &c. We bliſſ water ſprinkled withe ſalt for the peple / that they ſprinkled with it / may be hallowed and clenged. The whiche thyng we commande all ſacrificers or preſtes lykewyſe to do / for if the aſſhes of a calfe ſprynkled with blode hallowed and clenged the peple / myche more water ſprynkled with ſalt and ſanctified with godly prayers / holloweth & clengeth the peple. Thes wordes ſpeaketh pope Alexander with many mo all e lyke vayne & ſuperſtitious / whiche eueryevery mā that hath any know ledg dy in the ſcripture can eaſely confute / Now becauſ i cannot abyde thys popiſhe ordinance that your father made after your iudgement i putrefi for lak of ſalt. If that ye wold drink the water as ye do wine / and eat the ſalt at your table / i could be wel content that when ye ſay grace that ye ſanctified them with the inuocation of goddis name with other meates and drinkes whiche ye eat and drink / But when ye coniure water and ſalt and abuſe goddis creatures to other purpoſes then god ordened them / i nether will nor can abyde your ſhamful abuſion.
The reſcuer
With out learnyng he calleth it coniuryng / and with out withe deſpiceth the good wordes.
The hunter
Iuglers and coniurers be cauſe theyr names ar haynous and hated and theyr occupations ar vnlawful / will be called prety conueyers and exorciſtes / So maſter gardiner be cauſe ye ar a coniurer and your occupation is ſhameful and forbidden in the ſcripture / leſte ye ſhuld be knowen / of the hole realme to be a coniurer / ye will be called an exorciſt / and ye will hauehave your work called an exorciſme / and all that in Greke that Engliſhe peple ſhuld not know what ye be / Therfore he that calleth yow a coniurer and your work coniuryng / muſt be vnlearned / ye wrytyng vponupon the firſt commandment diſalow coniuryng / and he that made your book in Latin / turned coniuryng in to Exorciſmum, was he vnlearned therefore? Ye ar ſo wonderfully learned that ye will teach the ſcolares of cambridge to pronunce Greke / and ye will teache me to ſpeake Grekiſh Engliſhe. But if your lordſhip wold put of your miter / and be as wel cōtent to be taught that that ye can not as year arrogātly beſy to teache it that ye hauehave not learned / ye myght learne / that if foreign in Greke / be a coniurer in Engliſh as ye cannot denye but it is / foreign is to conture / & foreign is coniurynge / Rede the xix. chapter of the actes in Greke & ther ſhal ye fynde that thys leſſon that i hauehave taught yow is true. Then when as ye ar not aſhamed to occupi cōiuryng of the deuel out of water and ſalt / and ſay in Greke the worde of your occupation Exorcizo, …e that is i coniure the or charge the / whiar ye aſhamed to be called a cō iurer? If the name be euel the dede is wors / Then if ye will be no more called a coniurer / hauehave of your coniuryng and i ſhal lay away the name of a coniurer / or ellis the dede and the name muſt go together. As for your good wordes that ye ſay that i vnwiſely deſpiſe / i hauehave proued before to be wordes all ful of deueliſhnes and idolatri where fore i meruel that ye can for ſhame call thē good / and can nether anſwer to my reſon nor yit proue them good with any ſcripture.
The reſcuer
If thys man had bene by Chriſte / when he anoynted the blynde mannis eyes with clay / he wold hauehave aſked hym / whihe made clay an other god beſyde hym ſelf / And when the woman was heled of hyr diſeas / by touchyng of hys garmēt / why he made hys garmēt an other god / & whē Chriſte anſwered to diuers theyr faythe made thē hole / he made eueryevery mānis faythe a ſpecial ſauiour after thys noble clerkis doctrine / whiche is ſo blynded with malice / to deſproue al that he redeth that he fyndeth not in ſcripture. Many & many tymes that inſtrumental or occaſionatiue concurrent or miniſteriall cauſe hath attribute vntounto it in ſpeche the hole effect / with out preiudice or blaſphemi of many goddes or many ſauioures as thys beſte pretendynge to be learned / wold ſeme to be able to perſuade. I ſhall only vſe thys one place of ſcripture. Dothe ſaynt Paule (anſwer to thys and ye wil) go a bout to make many ſauioures when he writeth to Timothe / Do thys and then thow ſhalt ſane thy ſelf and other / all that is good to man is wrought by god in Chriſte for Chriſte and by Chriſte / where he in all creatures may do ſuche miniſteriall ſeruice / as it ſhall pleaſe god / and that all may ſerue man to the helth of both hody and ſoul / Good men by the grace purchaſed by Chriſte dare boldly pray god / and hauehave don from the begynnyng with prayer and callyng for the help of god and expulſion of the deuel in all thynge / the deuel cannot abyde hally water.
The hunter
Becauſ ye ar a coniurer and can rayſ the deuel at your pleaſure and compell hym with your Exorciſmes (lo now i ſpeak gardners Grekiſh Engliſh) both to tel yow what thyng ſhall be don and what thyng wold hauehave bene don / ye can by the help of the deuel that ye Exorciſ (playne men of the cuntre call it coniure) tel what i wolde hauehave don if i had bene by Chriſte. But if ye were no coniurer / and no better aquaynted withe the deuel then i am / how could ye tell / what i wolde hauehave ſayde ſo long ago vntounto Chriſte? Doth it folow that if i had bene by Chriſte when he healed the blynd mannis eyes with clay / ād healed many both in body and ſoule withe / fayth that i wold hauehave axed hym why he made mo goddes beſyde hym ſelf / becauſe i ſay that ye make a god of ſalted water whilſ ye truſte to obteyn by it ſaluation of both body and ſoul? As who ſay lykewiſe as Chriſte vſed clay as a meane to heale the ſyknes of the body / and faythe as a meane to heale bothe body and ſoul / ſo may ye vſe ſalted water / to be a mean to obteyn / the healthe of bothe body and ſoule / By what autorite make ye ſalted water to be meanes of the ſaluation of body and ſoul? What good man hathe found out thys ſhort way to heuen / that ſalted water ſhal heale bothe body and ſoule? If that ye ſay / lykewyſe as Chriſte vſed the clay whiche had no ſuche naturall properti gyuen it / to heal the blyndmannis eyes w…he / ſo may we now vſe ſalted water / to heal all diſeaſes theyr with bothe hote and colde / althoghe we know that god hath gyuen no ſuche naturall properti vntounto it / and that whiche it wanteth of nature we will obteyn by prayer / To thys i ſay firſt that Chriſte whiche could hauehave healed the blynd man with out any outward mean / vſed clay as a mean that the miracle myght be more euident and better remembred / and in the healyng of thys blynde man he ſhewed ij. miracles at one tyme / firſt in healyng the blynde mā which fact was a boue nature / & in healyng hym by clay beinge a meane that had no naturall pour to heal ſuch a diſeas with all / for a miracle is a ſtrange and a rare work aboue nature / Chriſte had good cauſe to worke ſuch miracles and wonders / for the iewes wold not hauehave receyued hys doctrine and beleued that he had bene of god / if he had not wroght ſuch wonders / Therfore Chriſte to purches credence vntounto hys doctrine which was thought vntounto the iewes a new learnyng and not of god / was dryuen to work miracles / But what nede hauehave ye now to work miracles? dothe not all men and wymen in Englond beleue that Chriſte is of god and that hys doctrine is true? ye worke a great miracle if that ye heal all diſeaſes with ſalt / and yit a greater miracle when ye can make the ſoul receyue ſalted water and ſaue it therby / for it is not only aboue nature that ye go about but alſo contrari to nature. Then when ye nede now no miracles / and neuer the leſſ go about to worke miracles whilſ by oue litle receyt ye take in hand to heal all the diſeaſes of bothe body and ſoule / your prayers ar foliſhe and wikked where in ye deſyre god to helpt yow to work your miracles / and therfore labor in vayne / and bring neuer to paſſ that ye go about / your prayers ar wikked for they ar to the diſſhonor of Chriſt for they require that ſalted water ſhuld do as mych as Chriſte can do / Alſo when as of lyke thynges is one iudgement / and lyke prayers vntounto youres / ar wikked it folowethe that youres ar alſo wikked / By the ſame autorite that ye hauehave brought water and ſalt in to the chirche and deſyre god that they may dryue deuelles away / take away veniall ſinnes / and be ſaluation of both body and ſoule / to all them that receyue them / may ye bring in to the chirche a calf and a ſow and / ſay allmyghty god / we beſeche the grant vſus that thys calf & thys ſow may chace away deuelles & take away venial ſinnes / and may be ſaluation of bothe body & ſoul / to al them that eate of them / By the ſame autorite may ye bring in to the chirche eueryevery ſonday a diſhe ful of milk and make thys prayer o all mygty & euerlaſtyng god we hymbly beſeche the / grant vsus that thow wil wit ſafe ſo to hallow and ſanctifi▪ thys milk thy creature / that who ſoeuer ſuppeth of it by the inuocatiō of thy name may hauehave poure to draw owt of what ſoeuer tether he liſte / ſo miche milk as he will deſyre / for as far as it is contrari vntounto the nature of a ſow and a calfe to chace deuelles away to purge venial ſinnes / and to be ſaluation to a mannis ſoul / and as far as it is contrari to the nature of a tether to gyue milk / ſo miche is it contrari to the nature of ſalt to heal hote burnyng agues and to the nature water to hele dropſes and palſes and to them both mixt together to be helth of both body and ſoule / your prayer is therfor wikked / then is it no meruel that ye neuer, obteyn that ye ax. How can thos prayers be other then wikked / where in the name of god is called vponupon in vayn? Chriſt did not hele the ſoul of the blynde man with clay / but only he delyuered hym from hys blyndenes with it / therfore it foloweth not becauſ / he vſed clay agaynſt blyndenes that ye may vſe ſalted water to heal both the body and the ſoule / Where as it is ſayd that many were ſaued by the fayth of Ieſu Chriſte that is no other thyng to ſay then that many were ſaued by Chriſte whom they took hold vponupon / by faythe / then is not fayth an other ſauiour beſyde god / but it ledeth vsus vntounto god / And when as god is our ſauiour and he draweth vsus vntounto hym by the mean of faythe / when i ſay that fayth iuſtifieth i mean that god iuſtifieth vsus by faythe / Therfore when as faythe is a mean ordened of god when i ſay fayth ſaueth i exclude not god / admitting hys inſtrument / nether make i any other ſauiour but hym that worketh by hys appoynted inſtrument. But when as ſalted water is no inſtrument of our god wher with he worketh our ſaluation / and yit ye gyue ſaluation vntounto it / it foloweth that after your iugement it is ether a god it ſelf or ſum inſtrument of ſum other god whiche worketh ſaluation by it. And where ye ax whether Paule maketh many ſauioures where as he ſayeth that Timothe redyng exortyng and techyng of the worde of god ſhal ſaue hym ſelf / i anſwere that Paule maketh no mo ſauioures but god alone / for he attributeth ſaluation vntounto the inſtrumentes whereby god worketh ſaluation. When as Dauid killed golias with a ſlinge / he that ſayeth that Dauidis ſling killed golias / ſayeth not / theyr was … ſleers of golias / be ſyde Dauid / for the ſlyng was the proper wepen that Dauid killed golias withe / & ſo is Timothe goddis inſtrument / wherby he wrought the ſaluation of Timothe / and of them that beleued hys prechyng / But if a man ſay that a lance killed golias the ſame man maketh an other killer of golias beſyde Dauid / for the lance was none of the wepens that Dauid killed golias with / So he that gyueth ſaluation inſtrumentally to any inſtrumentes whiche god hathe only appoynted and vſed to work ſaluation by / makethe no mo ſauioures but god alone / but he that gyuethe ſaluation vntounto other inſtrumentes then ar peculiare and proper vntounto god which nether god apoynted / nether at any tyme hath vſed / nether will alow for hys inſtrumentes maketh an other ſauiour beſyde god / Now hauehave i made yow an anſwer to your queſtion that / ſaynt Paul maketh not many ſauioures / Now what will ye gather of thys anſwer? Will ye gather that ſalted water may as wel be an inſtrument of ſaluation / as Timothe was? If thys be your gatheryng i gathere thus of yow agayn that ye holde / that the pope hath as myche autorite to ordeyn ſalted water to be an inſtrument of ſaluation / as allmyghty god had / to make Tymothe an inſtrument of ſaluation by the redyng and prechyng of hys worde / whiche if ye do it is more tree that ye ar a Papiſte / then the deuel hateth your falſly called holy water / which at hys motion was by pope Alexander brough in to the chirche to the mokkage and great iniury of Chriſtes bloode / Mark reder whither thes defenders of ceremonies as i hauehave ſayd oft do any thyng agaynſt abuſes but diſſemble / til they may fynde a better tyme / v. yeare ago maſter gardiner durſt not for hys eares / hauehave defended holy water any other wyſe but as a putter of vsus in remembrance of Chriſtes blode and of our baptim / nether durſt he ſay that images myght be worſhipped with outward reuerence / but ſhuld be only laymens bookes / but now when he hathe ſpied hys tyme / holdeth openly that hally water may be vſed in the chirche for the ſame endes and purpoſes that hys father pope hathe ordened it for / and brought it in to the Church / that is to dryue deuelles away / to heal all ſykneſſes / and to be ſaluation of bothe body and ſoule / and that images may be worſhipped with bowyng of the body with kiſſyng & crepyng to. What will thys bold defendyng of Popiſh ſuperſtition bring ſhortly / if it be vnloked to? ſuerly euen it that is in an old prouerbe / the Pope home agayn vntounto our own dores / and that with out a viſer where as yit he is partly couered.