Defense of the Ecclesiastical Discipline — Walter Travers

Defense of the Ecclesiastical Discipline · Walter Travers

Nowe our Sauiour Chriſt, altering the forme of the eccleſiaſticall gouernement, and ſo much of the ciuile as depended vponupon it, or onelyonly concerned that people, is to be thought to hauehave giuen as an adminiſtration of his church, no leſſe perfect for like vſe then that was, which before was giuen to the Fathers. Wherevppon it followeth that the ordinarie eccleſiaſticall gouernement of the Church was perfect before there were any Princes become Chriſtians.

Moreouer, th'ordinarie externall adminiſtration and regiment of the Churches is then perfect, when all ordinarie externall things belonging to the Church hauehave their officers & orders meete for the due adminiſtration of them. But the primitiue Church before there were any ſoueraigne Princes become Chriſtians, had their officers and orders meete for all the ordinarie and externall regiment of the Church. For what is belōging to the outward ordinarie regiment of the church. But the miniſterie of the worde, of the Sacramentes, of the Diſcipline, and the reliefe of the poore. For all whiche vſes the primitiue Church was ſufficientlie and perfectlie furniſhed, hauing Paſtours, Teachers, Elders, & Deacons. Whereof as the Church of Ieruſalem is a perfect preſident, and the reſt of the Churches, planted by the Apoſtles: ſo was namely that of the Coloſſians, of whom the Apoſtle ſayeth, That he reioyced to ſee the ſtayednes of their faith, and the order that was amongest them. If it had bin otherwiſe, the church for the ſpace of about 300. yeares ſhould hauehave bin left vnperfect, beinge without anie perfect ordinarie extetnall regiment for ſo long time, and that alſo ſuch, as moſt of all required ſuch an order by reaſon of the perſecutions: which could not ſtande with the wiſedome and louelove of our Sauiour Chriſte towardes his church. As it can not ſtande with his office of Mediatour, that to the perfection of the outwarde ordinarie regiment of the Church there ſhould be requiſite any other officers then ſuch as he by vertue of that office appointed, which are only eccleſiaſticall officers, as hath bin ſaide, the temporall powers being ordayned by him onelyonly as God and not depending of his office of mediation and redemptiō of mankind. When he did ſo bleſſe his people as that both the ciuill & eccleſiaſticall gouernement procedde immediatly frō him ſelfe: yet was eyther of theſe perfect in their kinde, & for ſuch vſe as they were appointed without the other, which appeared in the eccleſiaſticall regiment as in other ages, ſo in the times of Phineas and Jehoiada.

For concluſion of this poynt I adde, that ſuch outward ordinarie regiment of the Church muſt needes bee perfect as is eſtabliſhed according to all the commaundements and ordinances of our Sauiour Chriſt, and ſuch as ſufficeth for the due, full and perfect execution of them, and whiche bringeth theſe who are gouerned by it, to hyeſt perſecution, namelie to the ſaluation of their ſoules. But all theſe things did the outwarde ordinarie regiment of the primitiue Church performe before there were any Chriſtian Princes. Therefore, before ſuch time the outwarde ordinarie regiment of the Churche was perfect.

Concerning the ſeconde poynt, that notwithſtanding the outwarde ordinarie regiment of the Church was perfect before Princes became Chriſtians, that followeth not therefore that the Church hath no benefite, helpe nor comfort by their conuerſion to the faith of Chriſt, but is to bee acknowledged, that exceeding great and gracious is the fauour whiche GOD doeth to his Church when Princes are ioyned to it.

The outwarde ordinarie regiment of the Church for the time of the Lawe (which was ſhewed to Moſes in the mount, according to which he was commaunded to ſee all things performed, and is ſaide to hauehave accompliſhed it accordinglie) was ſo perfect as proceeding immediatlie from God wholy & onelyonly perfect, could not bee made any more perfect by anie creature whatſoeuer. It was perfect therefore, when that the Arke was at Silo, in the time of the Judges, & after in the time of Dauid, when it was brought to Syon. But yet can it not bee ſaide, that the Church receyued no increaſe of comfort by Salomon.

For when in ſteede of a Tabernacle, Salomon had buylded a Temple of ſtone, for the buylding and for all the furniture of it, for the matter and for the workmanſhip of as great magnificence and ſtate as nature and any skill of man was able to worke it: although there was nothing added to the perfection of the paterne giuen to Moſes, yet was the ioy and comfort of the Church exceedingly increaſed. In the time of the Apoſtles, whyle the Church was yet in Ieruſalem onelyonly, the regiment eſtabliſhed in it was perfect, and after when Churches began to be ſettled amongeſt the Iewes in the lande of Jurie, and in other partes before the conuerſion of the Gentiles, the regiment outward and ordinarie eſtabliſhed in them was perfect and receyued no increaſe of perfection in it ſelfe by addition of all the worlde vntounto the faith. But yet infinitely was the ioye and comfort of Gods people increaſed by it. For if Angells in heauen reioyce at the conuerſion of one ſinner, howe great doe we thinke the ioye of heauen and earth, of men and Angells must needes hauehave bin, for the conuerſion of the worlde. Neyther was it onelyonly ſo great an increaſe of the comfort of the church, but withall of infinite benefite and helpe. For by this meanes, the Church and the regiment eſtabliſhed in it obteyned as manie protectours, friendes, and mainteyners of it, as there were ſoules amongeſt the Gentiles, that receyued the obedience of faith, who all brought with them to mainteyne & honour the faith they had receyued to the bleſſed hope of euerlaſting lyfe, all the giftes which God had beſtowed vponupon them. The ritche their ritches and treaſure, the ſtrong their ſtrength, the wyſe their counſell and aduyſe, the eloquent their perſuading ſpeache, the learned their knowledge, & the Magiſtrates their authoritie. Whereof the Prophetes foretolde, ſayinge: Reioyce, Eſay. 54.1.2ô barren, that diddest not beare, breake forth into ioy & reioyce, thou that diddest not trauayle with childe: for the deſolate hath moe children then the married wyfe, ſaith the Lorde. Enlarge the place of thy Tentes, and let them ſpreade out the curtaynes of thine habitations: ſpare not, ſtretche out thy cordes, and make faſt thy ſtakes. For thou ſhalt increaſe on the right hande and on the left, and thy ſeede ſhall poſſeſſe the Gentiles, and dwell in the deſolate Cities. Whereby it is manifeſt, that the Gentiles maruelouſlie increaſed the ioye of the Church by their conuerſion to the faith of our Sauiour Ieſus Chriſt, and brought exceeding great helpe, benefite, ſtrength, protection, defence, and furtherance to the holy faith which they receyued, notwithſtanding that they made no newe orders in the Church, nor were not to make anie, but reſted as it was duetie in them in that perfect order which our Sauiour Chriſt before had eſtabliſhed amongeſt his people. Wherein they caried them ſelues according to that duetie whiche the Proſelytes yeelded, and were to yeelde to the auncient church and Synagogue of the Iewes. For if anie in that time adioyned them ſelues to the people of God to worſhip the trewe God, as he had declared it to his people, he would be worſhipped. They adioyned them ſelues as members to keepe, followe, and obeye the orders they founde alreadie, ſettled amongeſt his people by the ordinance of Almightie God, and not as maiſters or Lordes ouer the holy Religion they embraced, to take away the leaſt curtayne-ring that was mentioned in the Lawe of Moſes, nor an inche of the height, length or breadth, the iuſt meaſure whereof was alreadie ſet downe, nor to adde anie newe office, ryte, order, or ceremonie, or to alter in anie ſorte whatſoeuer was accordinge to the Lawe of the Lorde. Whiche is to bee vnderſtoode, not onelyonly of the common people of other countries that ſhould bee conuerted to the faith and religion of the Iewes, but of the moſt Noble amongeſt them, ſuch as was Naaman the Syrian, vponupon whom the King his Maiſter leaned when he worſhipped his idoll:2. Kin. 5.18. or the Noble man that was Treaſurer of Queene Candaces, Queene of the Aethyopians. Nay, I adde further,Actes 8.27. that if Naaman had perſuaded his maiſter the King of Syria, or that noble man, the Queene of Aethyopia, to hauehave receyued the religion of the Iewes, and to hauehave turned their whole people with them to the ſame, or if Cyrus that great Monarche, or the Queene of Saba, famous for hir wiſedome and ritches,1. Reg. 10.1. who both had dealinges with Gods people, had ſo receyued their fayth, and would hauehave eſtabliſhed it amongeſt all their people in all their Dominions, it had not bene lawfull for them to hauehave altered the leaſt iote or title of the Lawe of Moſes, but euen they muſt hauehave yeelded them ſelues and all their people obedient to all thinges preſcribed in it, notwithſtanding their ſoueraignitie whiche they had ouer their people, and which ſhould hauehave continued with them, and neyther hauehave diminiſhed nor increaſed for their conuerſion to the faith, but remayned altogither ſuch as it was lawfullie, at anie time before ouer their people. OnelyOnly they were to mainteyne that holye profeſſion whiche they had ſo receyued, not as other priuate men, but as Soueraigne Magiſtrates, honouringe GOD in the maintenance of his trewe Religion, with that power and authoritie whiche they had receyued at his handes.

For as no man that him ſelfe is ſufficient for wiſedome, and all other reſpectes, taketh a ſeruaunt into his houſe, or adopteth him a ſonne, or being a Prince, receyueth a forreyner, and incorporateth him into his people, by making him free, whatſoeuer qualitie or condition hee were of: yea although hee were a Soueraigne Prince and Gouernour, to alter anie order of his houſe, or anie lawe or ſtatute in his kingdome, but to enioye the comfort and benefite of his houſe or kingdome, the orders and lawes thereof, ſuch as hee hath thought meete and conuenient for the gouernement thereof: So neyther Cyrus that Perſian Emperour, nor Candaces the Ethiopian Queene, being receyued by ſuch profeſſion of true religion into the houſe and kingdome of God, who is onelyonly wyſe, and all ſufficient to gouerne his owne, were to alter any order of Lawe of the ſame for all their Princelie Soueraigntie, but to keepe in their perſons, and to enforce their people by their ciuile power to obſerue all ſuch orders, lawes, and ſtatutes, as God had commaunded to be obſerued in his houſe and kingdome. For howe great ſoeuer their power were, they had a Lord paramont ouer them, in reſpect of whom they were vaſſalls and ſeruauntes, who being compared with their people, were Lords and Princes ouer them. Whiche appeared in thoſe who were not ſinners, of the Gentiles, but Iewes by nature: of whom when any attempted the alteration of anie thing as diuerſe of the Kings of Iuda did, namely Achaz and Ʋzza, 2. King. 16.1 2. Sam. 6.7.they were reprooued and grieuouſlie puniſhed for it. Notwithſtanding which matter that they who were naturall Princes of the Iewes, or if any of the Gentiles had bin conuerted to their faith had no power to adde or take away, or in any ſorte to alter the leaſt thing whiche God had appointed: yet both exceeding great was the benefite of the King amongeſt the Iewes, And very profitable the conuerſion of the Princes of the Gentiles would hauehave bin vntounto them. The ſame is to be ſayde of Chriſtian Princes: For our Sauiour Chriſt before the conuerſion of any of them hauing ſettled offices, orders and lawes for the guydance of his church in a perfect maner, their conuerſion getteth them no power to alter any jote of that he before had eſtabliſhed. Who, if they hauehave beleeued in him, is their Lorde, to whom they owe all homage, ſeruice and obedience, but are in as great duetie as any other to keepe and to maynteyne them, obſeruing the ſame in their owne perſons, which belongeth vntounto them, and by their publique authoritie enforcing ciuillie all ſuch as are ſubiect vntounto them, to like obedience. Which ſeruice being done to the Sonne of GOD, who is King of Kings, and Lord of Lordes, is no vnſeemely thing for them, but both profitable & honourable for them and for all their people. Yet is not therefore the conuerſion of Princes to the faith of Chriſt a matter of no benefite or cō moditie to the Church. Nay the commoditie is infinite to the Church of ſuch a Prince as I hauehave ſpoken of, as entreth into the Church not as a Lorde and maiſter ouer Gods houſe, to alter and chaunge at his pleaſure, but as a duetifull childe to keepe and ſee other, to keepe in Gods houſe, that which God hath commaunded to bee obſerued. For bringing togyther with him ſelfe the whole people that is ſubiect to him, not onelyonly the comfort, but the helpe and benefite of the church is vnſpeakeably increaſed. Which is playne, in that there is added to the maintenance of the Church and the trewe ſeruice of God in it, the wealth, the ſtrength, the wyſedome, the fauour, and all the abilities of a whole people: Of whom, ſuch as are truelie conuerted vntounto God, will holde nothing deare nor precious vntounto them, no not their owne lyues, in compariſon of the maintenance of Gods true Religion and worſhip, and the faithfull profeſſours of it, but will employe all the good meanes which God hath bleſſed them withall, to encourage and mainteyne the ſame. In all whoſe giftes dedicated ſo to God, as the Church hath great helpe and comfort: ſo eſpeciallie in thoſe which moſt yeeld that helpe and comfort ſuch as are the bleſſing of authoritie and power beſtowed of GOD vponupon ſoueraigne Princes, which being ſanctifyed and conſecrated to the ſeruice and honour of God that gaue it, the wicked both in the eccleſiiaſticall and ciuill ſtate are by ciuill power and puniſhment enforced to doe their dueties, and the godlie in both eſtates are protected in their innocencie and well-doeing from all ſuch as would oppreſſe them.

The holy ſtorie declareth that religious and noble Kings of Iuda hauehave made ſundrie ciuill ſtatutes to th'enforcing of all to worſhip God in general, and by their power hauehave puniſhed falſe prophetes and idolatours: hauehave commaunded the prieſts to doe ſuch dueties, as they ſtoode charged to performe, that the true ſeruice of God, might be reſtored and eſtabliſhed agayne amongeſt his people.Iere. 26.16. We reade that when the Prieſtes would moſt wickedlie and vniuſtlie hauehave condemned Jeremie to death, diuers of the Kings counſell came vppon them, and by their authoritie deliuered him out of their handes.Ierem. 38.11 12.13. Another time a noble mā hauing fauour with the king, deliuered him out of priſon. And an other time the King him ſelfe relieued the Prophete by remoouing him from Iehonathans priſon.Iere. 37.15.16.17. Like examples reade we many, of the Emperours Chriſtians, to the immortall prayſe of God for it, and the perpetuall honour of ſuch Princes. We ſee diuers ſuch Joſias, & Conſtantins in this age, of which ſpirit the Lorde poure out yet greater aboūdance from aboue, for the exceeding great helpe and comfort that we finde, and vppon ſuch a largeſſe hope yet to finde in greater aboundance by the ſanctifyed power of Chriſtian Princes. For they looking into former preſidentes of auncient times, and ſeeing cauſe of like duetie to bee performed by them ſelues, no doubt, will be carefull that all eccleſiaſticall offices and orders not of God nor agreeable to his worde, be aboliſhed, and all ſuch eſtabliſhed as he hath commaunded. Then not onelyonly Princes ſhall receyue honour of their ſtyle of Supremacie, but the Church ſhall receyue alſo great comfort and benefite by it, in puniſhinge ſuch as ſhall without iuſt cauſe ſaye to the Prophete, Prophecie not, and to the Preachers, preache not: a matter not onelyonly in higheſt degree offenſiue to the Maieſtie of Almightie God, and againſt the ſaluation of mens ſoules, but alſo vnprofitable for their Crownes: ſeeing ignorance is the mother of all rebellion, & the knowledge of God, of all trew louelove and obedience. If any of them beate their fellow-ſeruauntes,☞ or ſitte downe to drink with the drunken, and neglect the Lords houſholde, they will take knowledge of the abuſes and wronges offred to the ſeruauntes of God, and graciouſlie heare and redreſſe their iniuries. So great difference is there betweene Gallio ſuffringe a man to be beaten at his barre, and profanely neglecting it, and caring for no ſuch things as were queſtions of Religion, & a Chriſtian Prince fearing God in trueth and in deede. In queſtions amongeſt the Miniſters according to the example of Constantine and others, they would cauſe the matters to bee hearde and debated in a ſoly and free Synode and aſſemblie, and without reſpect of perſons, authorize that which ſhould be moſt agreeable to Gods worde. In caſes of publique calamities threatning or lying vponupon the Church, if the eccleſiaſticall officers were negligent & careleſſe in it, they would cauſe by due order a publike faſt to bee kept by all their ſubiectes, that the wrath of God might be turned away, and his fauour reconcyled agayne vntounto his people. Finallie, their ciuill power would enforce all men to honour God, and liue in duetie one to wardes another as they ought, defending the godlie againſt the mightie oppreſſour, the ſtaffe of the wrath of the good and the violent man, and puniſhe the iniquities of the wicked according to their deſertes in iuſtice and equitie. Theſe and many more which by theſe may be conſidered, are the helpes, commodities and benefites which the Church of God doeth, and may receyue by meanes of Chriſtian Princes. Notwithſtanding they make no other lawes, officers, nor orders in the Churche then our Sauiour Chriſte hath alreadie made, and eſtabliſhed. Which may ſuffice for a number of the Repliers queſtions and other ſpeaches tendinge to this that there ſhould be little or no vſe of chriſtian Princes, if the regiment of the church be perfect without them.

In which diſcourſe allowing in ſome ſorte the regiment of the primitiue Church perfect, becauſe of the Apoſtles, Euangeliſtes, and Prophetes, whom then God gaue to the church, he ſayeth, thoſe offices were giuen as temporarie aydes to ſupplie th'aydes of Chriſtian Princes, which can not be ſo in anie ſorte. For there is no maner of proportion betweene their offices, the one being for preaching the worde and other ſuch like eccleſiaſticall functions, th'other for ciuill gouernement: the one by a ſpirituall power, the other by a temporall, beſides a number of other differences whiche may eaſilie ſhewe the one could in no ſorte ſerue for ſupply of the other. Further, if it had bin ſo, then ſhould the Apoſtles and the reſt of thoſe extraordinarie officers, who he ſayth were giuen for ſupplie of the wante of the ordinarie authoritie of Princes, they ſhould then hauehave continued about 300. yeares longer then they did, euen to Constantines time. Nay then they ſhould hauehave bene alwayes ſuch to this day, and ſhalbe to the ende of the worlde in ſuch partes of the Church, where the former are enimies to Religion: otherwiſe wanting both them, and the ſupply, the Church might ſeeme weakelie prouided for. But as the noueltie of this poynt, nowe firſt deuyſed, the vanitie is ſo eaſilie manifeſt, as I ſhall not neede to tary longer vppon it. wherfore nowe I procede to that which foloweth in his reply.

Hitherto the Replyer hath laboured in vayne, to ſhewe, that if it were graunted that in the primitiue Church there was yet no Prince become Chriſtian, notwithſtanding the regiment of the Church was not perfect before there was any chriſtian Prince. Nowe he pretendeth to proceede further to prooue that propoſition vntrew, which ſayeth there was not any chriſtian Prince then. For this vntowardly hath hee ſet it down: ſo as it can not be plainlie vnderſtood to what time his then, is to be referred, and chaungeth the wordes of the declaratiō, whiche are theſe: That all the regiment of the Church was perfect before there was any Christian Prince. Which propoſition hee ſhould hauehave vndertaken to hauehave ſpoken to, if he would hauehave ſayde any thing to the Declaration. But after hee hath ſette downe this propoſition to him ſelfe to prooue it vntrewe, that there was not any Chriſtian Prince then, hee leaueth the matter he vndertooke, and turneth aſyde to another thing, ſaying albeit ſo this be no good argument, nor this, nor this, and ſo maketh three ſundrie argumentes of his owne, as if they were vſed by the Declaration, but are not, and denyeth them to be good, which is nothing to the matter he tooke in hande. For if he make a hundreth yll argumentes, as he hath done in this booke, and can more eaſilie doe them, then make one good one, there is no reaſon to charge the Declaration for ſuch a cauſe as he mainteyneth. From this he goeth to ſhewe that it is not meete our brethren ſhould vſe the ſame argumentes that the Anabaptiſtes doe againſt Princes. Wherein he nameth vsus, our brethren, as ſcorning vsus. Whereof I knowe not what example he may hauehave, but of Iſmaell, who is ſaid to hauehave ſcorned Iſaac: wherevpon th'Apoſtle ſayeth: As he that was begotten according to the fleſhe, perſecuted him that was borne according to the ſpirit, euen ſo is it nowe.

The reſt of that marginall note ſhewing whereabout hee goeth, is, that our brethren vſe the ſame argumentes, whiche the Anabaptiſtes doe againſt Princes. Which is ſo doubtfullie ſet downe, as if he could be content the Reader tooke it, not onelyonly that the Anabaptiſtes vſe argumentes againſt Princes, but alſo that the Declaration vſeth the ſame argumentes againſt Princes. The Replier him ſelfe hath not ſo farre loſt all conſcience and modeſtie, as to charge vsus in anie ſorte with any part of the damnable errours of the Anabaptiſtes, but plainlie acknowledgeth that we deteſt them, but ſomewhat he would fayne ſhould cleaue vntounto vsus. And therefore would hauehave it vnderſtoode, that we hauehave ſome indiſpoſition againſt Princes, & that we hauehave thus much good liking of the diſputations of the Anabaptiſtes, as to vſe their argumentes againſt Princes. But the Lorde who ſeeth the ſecretes of all hartes, knoweth, that in our moſt inwarde ſpirit we reuerence and honour Magiſtracie, as the holy and neceſſarie ordinance of God, euen amongſt Chriſtians, and yeelde all willing and cheerfull obedience vntounto it, euen for conſcience ſake of the will of God. Therfore, the accuſer of our brethrē him ſelf, as he is termed in the reuelation, can not accuſe vsus with any maner of colour of their errours. As for vſing their argumentes, where did euer the Anabaptiſtes vſe this argument, that in a treatiſe of eccleſiaſticall regiment, good order requireth to ſpeake firſt of eccleſiaſticall officers, before a man treate of the ſoueraigne power of Princes, becauſe the Church was perfect in all hir regiment, before there was any Chriſtian Prince. Is this any argument againſt Princes? or doeth it weaken any thing at all the power of the Chriſtian Magiſtrate, that their authoritie be treated of in a booke, ſo as may ſtande beſt with good order? Where did euer any Anabaptiſtes vſe ſuch an argument? It were flatlie contrarie to their error, to vſe ſuch a one as plainlie implyeth allowance of the Chriſtian Magiſtrate, and ſtandeth onelyonly for a reaſon of the order of the treatiſe. But if the Declaration had vſed any argumentes of theirs, being not to the ſame ende, or like purpoſe that they vſed them, that is, to diſproue the neceſſarie & moſt lawfull ordinance of God concerning Magiſtrates, that had not bin blame worthie. For as hath bene ſaide, th'argumentes of Logike are as common to good and badde, as are the rules of grammer: yea as the Sūne, and the rayne, ſo as if he would hauehave vsus forbeare all the argumentes that euer the Anabaptiſtes vſed, and by conſequence anie other heretiques, he may as well forbid vsus to vſe the ſame rules of grammer, yea the ſame Sunne, ayre, water, and other things neceſſarie for this life. But howe ſtandeth this with his maintenance of the Popiſh Hierarchie and Iuriſdiction, & ſo many popiſhe ſuperſtitions as he mainteyneth, all whiche it were more reaſon he ſhould refuſe, then to hauehave cōmon with them and other, things of moſt neceſſarie vſe. But it is not for nothing that he obiecteth this, for by this meanes hee hath gotten the aduātage of ſtuffing his booke with another mans labours. In deede if it be a faulte in a booke to be little, as hee ſcorned the booke of cōmon prayer preſented of late in Parliament for being litle, he hath founde a good remedie to auoyde that fault, which is eaſilie auoyded, if one write ſo many not ſentences, but pages and leaues as he hath done out of other mens bookes. The Authour he alleadgeth is one Gellius, a godly learned man, as appeareth by his writings: but where he ſaith, it may ſeeme the declaration tooke many things out of him, he is greatly deceyued, for the declaration was written not a fewe yeres before the booke of Gellius, which he ſaith ſo much is taken out. As for his writing againſt the Anabaptiſts, he hath dealt, as may well cōmend both his pietie & learning, and be of verie good and profitable vſe vntounto the Church, but to the matter of the declaration he ſayth nothing at all. Therfore there is no cauſe to make any anſwere to him, who ſpeaketh nothing againſt vsus. But if he alleadge him becauſe he otherwyſe expoūdeth a text of ſcripture, then the Declaration doeth, it is not worth his labour of writing, this being no new thing that good writers may take ſome one text in other ſenſe then another doeth: prouided, that the ſenſe be alwayes ſuch, as may ſtande with the proportiō of faith. So as the declaratiō is no more in that caſe to be preſſed with the opinion or authoritie of Gellius, then Gellius or any other, is to bee with his that wrote the Declaration. Which yet if he will preſſe further, the trueth is that the declaratiō in the expoſition of the 12. to the Romanes, & the 12. of the former epiſt. to the Corinthians, hath both the trueth it ſelfe to beare witnes to it, and the beſt writers of this age. For it is cleare, that the worde Gouernor in thoſe places noteth only eccleſiaſticall officers, all ſure and circūſtances of that place ſo inforcing it. Another point he would take of Gellius, is, that he ſaith, that Magiſtracy and miniſterie hauehave bin moſt nearely ioyned togither, euen from the beginning, as appeareth by Moſes & Aaron. Which is godly & truly ſaid of Gellius: but what is this, either for the replier, or againſt the declaratiō. The reaſon gathered hereof is ſuch, as I thinke no man of reaſon would hauehave looked for, that is, as he noteth in the margent, that the ciuill Magiſtrate hath euer frō the beginning bin ioyned with the eccleſiaſticall miniſtery, intending thereby that then it muſt needes hauehave bin ſo likewiſe in the primitiue Church. But Gellius his meaninge is ſo farre from this, as it may ſeeme hee hath bene couſined in it, and giuen to light credite to other that hauehave abuſed him, or els to hauehave vſed ſmall eyther diligence or conſcience in this collection.

For the purpoſe of Gellius is farre other in that place, namely, to ſhewe that Magiſtracie and eccleſiaſticall miniſterie, are not as the Anabaptiſtes would hauehave it, thinges that can not ſtande togither. For (ſayeth he) theſe fight not betweene them ſelues, but from the beginning were moſt nearily ioyned togither, although the propertie of eyther be diſtinguiſhed in the Church, as is playne in the examples of Moſes and Aaron. Wherein Gellius godly and truelie proueth, that theſe two ordinances of God are not enimies, ſo that the one ſhould not abyde the other, but rather that from the beginning they were of good and friendlie agreement, whiche is well prooued by Moſes and Aaron, who being brethren, and eyther of them bearing the chiefe office in either ſtate both ciuill and eccleſiaſticall, ſheweth a naturall and brotherlie reſpect betweene theſe two ſtates, and that naturallie from the beginning they hauehave mainteined comforted & cheriſhed one another. This is it onelyonly which Gellius meaneth there, whiche is as farre from the Repliers collection, as thoſe two ſtates are ſayde by Gellius, and are in deede, neare one to another, as may appeare moſt euidentlie by ſundrie other circumſtances of that place, and the direct oppoſition of theſe wordes, they fight not betweene them ſelues, to theſe, but hauehave bin alwayes most nearely ioyned togither, and the adiectiue there vſed in the ſuperlatiue degree of compariſon, in which ſorte no man ſpeaking Latin would ſaye, that theſe two had bin alwayes togither, but in the poſitiue. To like purpoſe he noteth out of another place, a little after in the margent, the ciuill and eccleſiaſticall power ioyned alwayes in the Church, and in the texte of the wordes of his tranſlation, ſetteth downe in a diuerſe letter theſe words, hauehave alwayes bin ioyned togither. Wherevpon he gathereth thus: If it were alwayes ioyned togither, that is to ſay, the Magiſtracie & eccleſiaſticall miniſterie, it was euen then ioyned when our brethren auouch that it was not onelyonly diſioyned, but that the one was perfect, when the other was not at all. Wherein hee committeth the ſame groſſe ouerſight that hee did in the former place. For Gellius in this place gathereth his generall concluſion of ſundrie argumentes alleadged before. Whereof this, hauing bin of the good agreement that hath alwayes bin in the Church from the beginning betweene theſe two functions, togither with the reſt, he reckoneth vp this almoſt in the ſame wordes, he had ſet it downe in before. Whiche ſeeing it can hauehave no other ſenſe in the concluſion, then it had before, it is playne, no ſuch thing can bee gathered of it as the Replyer pretendeth. As impertinent are his other collections and obſeruations out of the ſame authour, as that thoſe churches ſo much commended before by the Declaration, are troubled with Anabaptiſtes. His purpoſe was to prooue, that there were Chrſtian Princes in the primitiue Church, but how farre wyde roueth he from this marke, in telling vsus of another matter, of Anabaptiſtes. Of whom yet that hee ſayeth is not trewe, that the Churches commended before by the Declaration, are the ſame that are ſayd by Gellius there, by accident to be troubled with that ſecte. But if it were, ſhould that diſcommende their reformation according to Gods worde? Nay rather it commendeth them, that they are ſo amongeſt them, as that they are not hidden nor alowed nor ſuffered ſo to continue, but diſcouered and diſprooued in worde and in writing, and in publike diſputation for their recouerie, if it were poſſible, or els for the keeping of thoſe who are yet ſincere not to be ſeduced by them. Yet if this muſt needes be an embaſing of the honour of the reformation of thoſe Churches, I would he could ſay for ours that there are none of the familie, no recuſants, yea no Anabaptiſtes nor Libertines, nor of anie other erronious ſecte amongſt vsus or could ſhewe in any part of the worlde anie fielde of the Lordes, where the Enimie ſoweth not tares amongſt the wheate, or anie flooore where the wheate is not mingled with chaffe, and that not onelyonly in regarde of euil life, but alſo of erroneous doctrines, according as it was ſayde to the church of Corinth, there must be hereſies amōgst you, that they who are tryed and ſounde in fayth, may bee made manifest.

His next obſeruation out of Gellius is, that the ſtate of the olde Teſtament and new is all one, which, as Gellius there teacheth, that is, concerning the way of iuſtification and the obedience to the morall lawe is very trewe, but nothinge to the Replyers purpoſe.

The next obſeruation, which is, that God did by an extraordinarie power puniſhe the wicked, where the ordinarie was wanting, that is, as he expoundeth by the Apoſtles Peeter and Paule puniſhe Ananias, Saphyra, and Elymas, when the chief and ordinarie Magiſtrates ouer them were not Chriſtian Princes: is not onelyonly nothing for his purpoſe as the former, but directlie againſt him. For him ſelfe confeſſeth contrarie to that he pretended to proue in the beginning and by a former obſeruation out of Gellius, that alwayes the two functions of Magiſtracy and miniſterie hauehave bin ioyned in the church, and his collection vponupon that. Therefore euen in that time, when it is denyed by the Declaration to hauehave bin ſo. He nowe confeſſeth that the chiefe and ordinarie Magiſtrates were not then Chriſtian Princes. If he had not confeſſed it, the trueth hereof is manifeſt by the Actes of the Apoſtles in Paules appealing to Caeſar, and all the ſtories of that age. But his owne confeſſion againſt him ſelfe,Actes 25.11. was not to be pretermitted. Yet as if hee knewe not his owne voyce, or would denie his owne hande, he continueth his purpoſe to prooue out of Gellius, the former vntrueth, that Princes ſhould hauehave bin Chriſtians in that time.

To which purpoſe, although it be in deede nothing to the purpoſe, he noteth out of him, that contrarie to the aſſertion of the Declaration, Gellius ſheweth, that there were Magiſtrates in the time of Chriſt and the Apoſtles. As if the Declaration denyed that the worlde was then gouuerned by Magiſtrates, as it hath alwayes bin, or that any bearinge any ciuill office receyued the fayth of Chriſt, and yet continued their calling. Neyther of theſe is denyed by the Declaratiō, to whiche ende Gellius fitlie alleadgeth the examples of Cornelius & other: but, the Declaration ſpeaketh expreſlie of ſoueraigne Princes, ſaying, But of the ſupreame authoritie of Chriſtian Princes, and after in the wordes which the Replier hath vndertaken to diſproue, that the Church of God was perfect in all hir regiment, before there was anie Chriſtian Prince. Yet of this moſt impertinent reply, and of this his ſo fruitleſſe labour this is to be noted, that he confeſſeth the queſtion to bee concerning the tyme of Chriſt and the Apoſtles time. In whoſe time if he pretende any ſoueraigne Prince to hauehave bin Chriſtian, he were worthie a better rewarde then he can by any reaſon looke for. But where as he reprochfully and deſpitefullie ſetteth it downe that Gellius proceeding commeth to the Anabaptiſtes obiection of this ſelfe ſame reaſon that our brethren in this learned diſcourſe doe vrge, that is, that the Church of God was perfect in all hir regiment before there was any chriſtian Prince. Beholde what wordes of Gellius hee citeth to proue it. But they obiect (ſayeth Gellius) that in the time of Chriſt and of Paule, there was no Chriſtian Magiſtrate. If this be their obiection, howe is it the ſelfe ſame reaſon that is vſed by the Declaration, which ſpeaketh not of all Magiſtrates, but onelyonly of ſoueraigne Princes. Further Gellius beginneth his aunſwere therevnto thus, as he him ſelfe hath tranſlated him: The authoritie of the Magiſtrate is not therefore weakened, albeit in the time of Chriſt and of Paule, Emperours & Kings ſet in high eſtate were aliens from the faith. Could any thing be ſpoken more directly againſt that which he would prooue by this teſtimonie, or more expreſſelie, for that which the Declaration ſayeth, and he would improue. Yet from this page he beginneth to ſet theſe wordes in the toppe of the page, in a diuers letter, Christian Princes from the beginning, and ſo continueth in the next, Christian Princes in the Apostles times, & from theſe being the 136. and 137. pages, to the 145. in whiche and the next he hath, Christian Princes from the beginning. All which conteyne litle els, but Gellius wordes, worde for worde tranſlated. A preatie way to make a ſhewe to the ſtate of hauing taken great paynes to mainteyne the eccleſiaſticall gouernement of it. If he can helpe him ſelfe thus, with ſtuffing his booke with other mens writings. We hauehave heard how Gellius entreth into that diſcourſe, playnlie diſauowinge the proofe of that, in the very beginning, for whiche hee would hauehave him ſpeake. VponUpon which place, it ſerued wel for his purpoſe, to make that note in the margent: but ſurely modeſtie and ſhamefaſtnes neuer aduyſed him, to ſet ſo direct an vntrueth ſo hye in his booke, that all men might ſee it. For in all the reſt of Gellius wordes, in ſo many leaues as I hauehave noted, rehearſed by him, there is no ſuch matter intended nor proued. OnelyOnly in naming ſuch Magiſtrates as were called to the faith of Chriſt, he reckoneth vp theaMat. 8.5. Cēturion in the goſpel, andbcap. 27.57 Ioſeph of Arimathea, &cLuke 1.3. Theophilus, to whom Luke dedicateth his writing of the Goſpell,dIohn 3.1. Nichodemus, eActes 13.7Sergius Paulus, thefActes 8.27 Treaſurer of Candaces, & (g) Captain Cornelius, with certaine other of Aſia, of Rome, and of Caeſars houſe. Wherein let eueryevery thing be enforced to the vtmoſt, yet will he come ſhort by many degrees, of a ſoueraigne Prince of the faith of our Sauiour Chriſt in that tyme. Which principall purpoſe notwithſtanding he miſſe of, yet ſuppoſed he not to leeſe his labour in writing out ſo many leaues of an other mans booke, to ſtuffe his owne withall, & therefore hath ſcattered obſeruations as he goeth, in the margent, which, belike, he thought the Reader ſhould take as admonitions, that ſuch a matter ſerued for him, and made againſt the Declaration. Whereof one in his margent is, A Church without a Magiſtrate, neuer ſeene: whereby hee would ſeeme to giuegive his Reader to vnderſtande, that Gellius ſhould denie that euer there had bene ſeene any Church, where the people hauehave not bene gouerned by chriſtian Magiſtrates, which is nothing the meaning of Gellius. For hee ſpeaketh of Magiſtrates in generall, and the vſe of it in the ordinance of GOD, to puniſhe the wicked, and to protect him, that liueth according to his duetie, what ſoeuer the Magiſtrate bee in regarde of his religion. And in this ſenſe denyeth, that euer there hath bene ſeene anie Church where the people of it hauehave not bene ſubiect to Magiſtrates, which is very trew. For euen in the time of our Sauiour Chriſt and the Apoſtles, the Empire of Roome flouriſhed, and ruled in a manner all the worlde, as it is noted in the thirde Chapter of Saint Lukes Goſpell. And as there were Magiſtrates that ruled then ouer men in all places, ſo the ordinance of God in Magiſtracie,, What ſoeuer the religion of the Magiſtrates were, was needfull and profitable vntounto the Church. Whereof the reaſon is euident, for that thereby, they were oftentimes in their innocencie deliuered frō thoſe who would hauehave done them wrong, as Paule was by appealing to Caeſar. Therefore, whereas hee noteth in the next place, that the godlie hauehave neede of the Magiſtrate, is likewiſe trewe: yea and the next to it, whiche hee noteth out of Gellius, that the vſe of Magiſtracie is ſuch, as that it were rather to bee wiſhed there were no common wealth without a trewe Chriſtian Magiſtrate, then the Chriſtian Magiſtrate ſhould be excluded from the Church of God, that is that a chriſtian bearing ciuill office, ſhould therfore be cut of from the church as the Anabaptiſtes would. For this is plainly the meaning of Gellius, howſoeuer he hauehave ſet downe the note of his wordes ſhortly and obſcurely, & fitlie to make the reader gather another ſenſe, as if Gellius meant to ſay, rather, no cōmon wealth without a Chriſtian Magiſtrate, then a Magiſtrate excluded from the Church, or not to bee reckoned an eccleſiaſticall office. But the ſenſe (as I ſayde) is playne. In whiche meaning alſo is that written whereof hee maketh after this note in the margent, The Magistrates office neceſſarie to the church, not that the Churche cannot ſtande, except the Magiſtrate, where the Church is, bee of the faith, but that what ſoeuer hee bee in that reſpecte, his office in the ordinance of GOD, is neceſſarie, and comfortable to the Churche.

To which ende Gellius addeth for proofe in the verie next wordes, otherwiſe why did Paule and Peter write of that matter to the faithful that were ſubiect to the diſcipline of Chriſt. For the Romanes to whom hee wrote, were vnderunder Nero, as were alſo at that time the other. His next note in the margent vponupon Gellius his wordes is, that certayne of the Prophetes and Apoſtles exerciſed alſo the office of the Magiſtrate. This is another of his impertinencies, I might ſaye vntruethes, for heere Gellius attributeth this no more to the Apoſtles, then to our Sauiour Chriſt, who directlie ſaid, His kingdome was not of this worlde: Iohn 18.36.but I chieflie note his impertinencie. For what is this to proue, that he vndertooke (to witte) that there were Chriſtian Princes in the Apoſtles times. But he had a meaning to admoniſhe the Reader to ſtaye & conſider of the poyntes here handled by Gellius, wherevnto alſo tendeth his next note, why God diſtinguiſhed thoſe offices. For there Gellius ſhewinge, that theſe functions are not contrarie, ſo as for the contrarietie of their nature, they could not meete togither, but that the one ſhould deſtroy th'other, as fire and water, ſeeing Melchiſedech, Eli, & Samuell exerciſed both: and the diſtinguiſhing of them, was not for their repugnancie, but becauſe one man was ſcarſe ſufficient to exerciſe both. He might thinke peraduenture, the Reader might gather here, ſomething by the way for the maintenāce of the cōfuſiō of both offices in thoſe that are of the miniſterie. But of this there wilbe a fitter place to ſpeake. Here it may ſuffice to admoniſhe the Reader of the inſufficiencie whiche Gellius noteth to be in men for exerciſing of both offices. For which cauſe God did diſtinguiſh and ſeuer them to be adminiſtred by diuers perſons.

Thus proceedeth he on ſtill with Gellius, noting in the next place the example of Chriſtian Magiſtrates in Chriſt and the Apoſtles times. Whiche is that place where Gellius maketh mention of the Captaynes or Centurions, of Joſeph, Nicodemus, and ſuch like, wherevnto I hauehave anſwered before alreadie.

Nowe the Replyer hauing fought a great whyle with another mans weapons, and perſuading him ſelfe that his owne right hande had done valiauntlie, beginneth to ſounde his trumpet as if the victorie were his owne, ſaying, thus wee ſee moſt euidently, howe weake this reaſon is, to witte, of the perfection of the Churches regiment before there were any chriſtian Princes, and with what a multitude of farre better reaſons, yea with a cloude of witneſſes, it is beaten downe. Wherin he reioyceth as if a blinde man ſtriking often at a venture, becauſe he hath wearied him ſelfe, ſhould triumphe, as if hee had driuen his enimie out of the fielde. Yet hauinge in the middeſt of this his blinde vanitie ſome glymſe that this reaſon commeth ſtill like an armed man vponupon him, hee holdeth out this bucklar againſt it, that it auayleth not to ſaye, they were no Emperours. For (ſayeth he) it euicteth the cauſe ſufficientlie, that they were Princes, or at leaſt any kinde of Magiſtrates.

In deede, if it may ſuffice, to ſhewe that any Magiſtrates in the time of our Sauiour Chriſt receyued the faith of the Goſpell, he hath wonne his ſpurres, and is worthie if not to bee knighted, yet Biſhopped, which I thinke he had rather be. But the queſtion is onelyonly of ſoueraigne Princes, whether any ſuch were Chriſtians in that time. Whiche his cloude of witneſſes vaniſhing away like a cloude, or as a cloude without water, driuen about with eueryevery winde, hath not bin able to doe for him. Yet is he not ſatisfied thus to leaue the matter, but obiecteth againſt him ſelfe, that thoſe Magiſtrates exerciſed no authoritie ouer the Church, but were in it as priuate men. Which is very true, but not alleadged by the Declaration, and therefore no cauſe he ſhould enter into the diſprooue of that, except he can not endure that any trueth ſtande before him. To this hauing litle to ſaye of him ſelfe, he ſayeth that Gellius ſayeth ſomewhat to this, out of whom yet he noteth no one word to this purpoſe, but to another, he noteth, that the churches regiment, is more happie, where Chriſtian Princes are. Which thing the Declaration might hauehave taught him. And thus farre hath he reaſoned out of Gellius, againſt the firſt part of the argument of the Declaration, affirming the Churches regiment to hauehave bene perfect before that anie Princes were Chriſtians.

For that which he addeth after of his owne, of Paules appeale to Caeſar for the deciſion, as hee ſayeth of an eccleſiaſticall controuerſie, is of ſo ſmall colour of likelihoode, as can not eaſilie abuſe anie. For, who will be ſo abſurde, as to thinke that Paule referred the deciſion of the queſtion hee had with the Iewes, concerning ſaluation by our Sauiour Chriſte, as it is Eccleſiaſticall, to Nero, who vnderſtoode nothinge of thoſe matters, and was him ſelfe a great enemie, as the Apoſtle ſeemeth to call him, as a Lyon, readie to deuoure all that made profeſſion of that faith.2. Tim. 4.17 It were time nowe to proceede to his replye to the other parte of the argument, but that the Reader is firſte to be admoniſhed concerning Gellius, out of whom the Replyer hath written ſo many leaues, (becauſe of all other he thought him to write moſt ſoundlie and fauourablie of the office and power of Magiſtrates,) that this ſame Gellius, ſo duetifull to Magiſtrates, is an earneſt defendour of that eccleſiaſticall gouuernement, which the Replyer in all his booke oppugneth. Whereof it is to bee obſerued, that the reformed Diſcipline, which is deſired to be eſtabliſhed amongeſt vsus, is in no ſorte preiudiciall to Chriſtian Princes, or other Magiſtrates. For Gellius, who writeth as earneſtlie for the maintenance of the reformed Diſcipline as anie, the ſame alſo writeth as duetifullie of the office and power of Magiſtrates, and as largelie: yea and more againſt the Anabaptiſtes, then euer did any of the Romane Hierarchie, or vnreformed Diſcipline. Therefore, notwithſtandinge our ſeekinge to aduaunce by all good and lawfull meanes, that holy ordinance of GOD, of the onelyonly lawfull Diſcipline, whereby the Church ought to bee guyded: wee may be, and are by the grace of God, as loyall and louing ſubiectes, as duetifull and obedient, as anie are of their whyte coate, whiche they ſtriue ſo much for. Beſides this, the Reader is to obſerue the good diſcretion of the Replyer, in reſting ſo wholy vppon the authoritie of Gellius in this matter. Whoſe teſtimonie if he acknowledge ſo graue and of ſuch credite, as if it had bin againſt vsus, he would hauehave giuen ſentence againſt vsus vppon it, why ſhould not the ſame mans witnes, bee of like waight and credite to iuſtifie our cauſe, and to preiudice his, if ſo be his teſtimonie may be ſhewed to be with vsus and againſt him in this cauſe of the Diſcipline of the Church. But this is manifeſt, by a treatiſe of Gellius, expreſſelie written of eccleſiaſticall Diſcipline. Out of which I might write more leaues to ſhewe his iudgement, and his reaſons in the diuerſe pointes of Diſcipline, for that onelyonly lawfull and holy order which the Replyer hath audaciouſlie ſet him ſelfe againſt, and oppugneth, then he wrote out of him, to no purpoſe, for the office of the Magiſtrate. Whereby it is cleare, that if he ſtande to the witneſſe of Gellius, he hath loſt the whole cauſe hee laboureth ſo greatlie to mainteyne. Nowe I proceede to the reſt of his replye.

The Declaration for proofe of the order to be followed in that treatiſe, hauing alleadged, that the regiment of the churche was perfect before there were any chriſtiā Princes, addeth further, that it may & doeth ſtande at this day in moſt bleſſed eſtate where the ciuill Magiſtrates are not the greateſt fauourers. The reply to this, beginneth with ſuch an exclamation, as a man would thinke he hearde & ſawe the hye Prieſt, mentioned in the Goſpell, renting his cloathes, and cryinge, Hee hath blaſphemed, what neede we any more witneſſes? Mat. 26.65.Behold now you hauehave heard his blaſphemie, what thinke you? yet was it no euill that was ſpoken, but a moſt holy trueth, whiche that prieſt of all other ought to hauehave perceyued. There follow next idle repetitions, as of other thinges, ſo of his former vayne demaundes, what vſe then there may bee of Chriſtian Magiſtrates, to the Church? Wherevppon I hauehave alreadie aunſwered, ſhewinge the Magiſtrates to bee ordeyned of GOD, for the protection of the good, and puniſhment of the euil doer. And that as in other matters, ſo alſo in things that concerne religion, that we may liue vnderunder them, a peaceable and quiet life, in all pietie and honeſtie. For of ſuch things hauehave they charge alſo, eſpeciallie Magiſtrates which are of good Religion. For which cauſe the Kings were commaunded in the law of Moſes, to hauehave by them a copye of the lawe, and charged to ſee the ſame obſerued,Deut. 17.18. not in one part onelyonly, which concerneth the dueties of the ſeconde table, but alſo of the firſt. All which things whyle Magiſtrates procure and further by their ciuill power and authoritie, bleſſed are they in ſo holy and honourable ſeruice, and bleſſed is the Church that receyueth ſo exceeding great helpe, benefite, and comfort by them.

A litle quarell here is in the next place, againſt the wordes, most bleſſed. Wherevnto it is replyed, that the Church can not be ſayde to be moſt bleſſed till it be in heauen. But he is to vnderſtande, that it is not ſpoken of the Church ſimply, but in ſome reſpect. Which alſo he graunteth, a little after, ſayinge him ſelfe of the primitiue church, that it ſeemed in most bleſſed estate in ſome reſpectes.

As therefore the Church may be ſayde to be in moſt bleſſed eſtate, when it is ordered in all thinges according to Gods cō maundement, whiche is the greateſt bleſſing it may hauehave in this lyfe, ſo the Declaration ſpeaketh of the Churches which are bleſſed in that reſpect. The ſtate of the auncient Church of the Iewes, was then in moſt bleſſed eſtate in ſuch reſpecte, when all things in it aunſwered the paterne ſhewed to Moſes in the mountayne, and the primitiue Church, when it was ordered according to the rules of our Sauiour Chriſt. So are the Churches of this age, ſayde for the ſame reſpect to be in moſt bleſſed eſtate.

From this he returneth againe to his queſtion ſo often mooued before, what vſe then there may be, of the Chriſtian Magiſtrate. For which he is to be returned agayne in like maner to his former aunſwere. Which is, that th'vſe of them is exceeding great in eueryevery ſorte, and would be yet a great deale more if their godly proceedings were not hindered by miſinformations of ſuch, who, for their place and the truſt repoſed in them, ought both to knowe and declare the will of God, to Chriſtian Princes, to the furthering of the reformatiō of ſuch abuſes, the continuance whereof prouoketh the wrath of God againſt both the Prince & the people: Who mainteyning that all is well, (when in the gouernance of the Church, ſo manie things are amiſſe, and neede moſt ſpeedy reformation) abuſe them ſelues and the Princes whom they ought faithefullie to ſerue, (as Azariah and Hananias the Prophetes did Aſa King of Juda: 2. Chro. 15. 1 Cap. 16 7. Ierem. 1. 2.Ieremie Joſiah, with ſundrie other) and ſo haſten vpō them & their people the fierie flying vengeance, that for ſuch enormities may come, ſo mightily and ſuddainly, that there wilbe no turning of it backe, nor eſcaping from it. Wherein, God be mercifull and ſpare his ſanctuarie, that it be not made deſolate, for the Lordes ſake, but to returne to the ſeruice,Dan. 9.17. whereby for my parte, I may endeuour to procure ſo great a bleſſing, in maintenance of the trueth of God, in the cauſe of the further reformatiō needful in the diſcipline, as it hath bin thorowe the goodnes of God made in the doctrine. I proceed to anſwere his next poynt of reply to this argument. This replie is an iniurious and a bitter diſcourſe, of the difference of the ſtate of the Church in perſecution and in peace, which he affirmeth to be hir moſt bleſſed eſtate. It is ſet out by oppoſition of Princes perſecuting, and protecting the Church, as of Pharao and Moſes, Saul and Dauid, Manaſſes and Ezechias, the Turke, Sophi and Cham, and the Chriſtian Princes in Englande, Germanie, Scotlande, Denmarke, &c. The end wherof, is to charge the Declaration, with a groſſe and foule abſurditie as if it affirmed the Church in times paſt to hauehave bene in better ſtate vnderunder Tyrants and perſecutours then vnderunder godly and vertuous Princes, and in this age vnderunder the heathen, then vnderunder Chriſtian Princes. Wherevppon he cryeth out, O blinde (what ſhould I call it) malice, no, but ſelfe-willed opinion, that to deface the good eſtate of the church of God, wherein we are (vnderunder ſuch a right defendor of the faith) defended and ſhielded from all our enimies, in a farre more bleſſed eſtate then we deſerue, will make ſuch an odious compariſon as this is. But as the olde ſaying is: Itch and eaſe can no man pleaſe. If a beame of a Biſhoprike had not hindred his ſight, hee might hauehave ſeene more clearely, both in many other places, and in this, that there is no ſuch compariſon made as he cauilleth about. It is ſaide in the Declaration, that the Church at this day ſtandeth in moſt bleſſed eſtate where the ciuill Magiſtrates are not the greateſt fauourers. Whereat although he ieſtingly demaunde after his maner, whether this be in Ʋtopia, or where yet either he muſt be ſtarke blinde, or els hee muſt needes ſee that it is meant of the Countries neare vntounto vsus, wherein the Churches are in ſome reſpect in moſt bleſſed eſtate. Whiche bleſſednes if he ſcorne at for the perſecution whiche they endure, what will he anſwere to our Sauiour Chriſt, ſaying: Bleſſed ſhall ye be when men reuyle you, Ma. 5.11.12& perſecute you, and ſay all maner of euill against you for my ſake falſlie. Reioyce & be glad, for great is your reward in heauen. For ſo perſecuted they the Prophetes which were before you. Further alſo, in regard of the full reformation of the church, both in the doctrine and diſcipline of our Sauiour Chriſt, which the Lorde that is riche in merciemercy hath for their more aboundant cōfort, giuen them to enioy in this their outward troubleſome & perſecuted eſtate. For theſe and ſuch like reſpectes, declared vponupon occaſion before in this treatiſe, the Declaration calleth their eſtate moſt bleſſed. In reproch whereof he exhorteth the Miniſters, zealous of the further reformation of our church to be gone into thoſe coū tries, if they iudge the eſtate of thē to be better then our owne. I maruell not if the ſucceſſours of Amazia would fayne hauehave the ſucceſſours of Amos to depart both out of the Court,Amos 7.12. and countrey too. For then might they more freely abuſe whome they would. But the duetie of our calling, wherevnto almightie God of his great merciemercy hath called vsus, whiche is to ſerue eſpeciallie the church of our own nation & people, amongeſt whom we are borne and brought vp, whoſe language is ours by nature, & with whom we are to hauehave all thinges common both bleſſings and puniſhmentes, as the ſeruaunts of God in Iewrie had, will not ſuffer vsus to hearken to his rude motion, leaſt we ſhould with Jonas fly from the preſence of the Lorde. Further, as the terrour of God, ſo the louelove of our people & nation, our kinred and acquaintance, not onelyonly in the fleſhe, but alſo in the Lorde, is more deare and precious to vsus, then that we may depart from them, for whoſe ſake, wee ought to bee readie, to want, euen that ſo great a bleſſing, as from our harte we acknowledge it to be, as to liue in a church reformed both in doctrine and diſcipline, and wholy in euerie reſpecte, vnderunder the gouernement of our Sauiour Chriſt. Moſes and the Apoſtle Paule were caryed ſo farre beyond this in a like zeale and louelove of their people,Exe. 32.32. Rom. 9.3. as (whatſoeuer the Replyer thinke) they that ſuppoſe any parte of their ſpirit to bee in vsus, neede not maruell, although for ſome like cauſe, we ſhould depriue our ſelues of ſuch a bleſſing, as we want, in not being in thoſe churches. Further alſo as the worthie ſeruauntes of God, the Miniſters of the Goſpell there, left not their countryes becauſe they wanted this full reformation in the beginning, but knew it to be the calling of God that they ſhould labour by all good dueties to procure it: So likewiſe doe we vnderſtande, that we are charged with like duetie to our church, to further as much as by any godly meanes, agreable to our callings, we may poſſiblie doe, the further reformation of our Church, that wee may ſee and enioye the fulnes of the glorie and merciemercy of god vponupon it. Wherein howſoeuer the hinderer of reformation that ſtoode at the right hande of Jehoſuah, Zach. 3.1.hauehave hindred vsus hitherto: yet doe we hope in God, that hee will ſhewe vsus merciemercy in time, to take away all things whiche hinder the glorie of God in his Church: as thoſe garmentes whereof Zacharie ſpeaketh did in Jehoſuah, and the reſtoring of the auncient honour of that Church, was figured in the putting on of his holy garmentes which were according to the lawe of God put vppon him: ſo likewiſe doe we hope, & pray, that the Lord will cauſe the honour that ſometimes ſhined in it to be ſeene agayne, & that holy,Zach. 3.2. ſeemely, & only lawful gouernement of the church which he hath commaunded to be reſtored. For reſtoringe of which comfort and glorie, as the Lorde hath begon to rebuke Sathan the Prince of the Angells of darknes, and miniſters of iniquitie, and hinderers of the full reformation of the church: and hath taken our Church as a brande out of the fire wherein it conſumed, ſo hath he giuen thereby iuſt cauſe of hope, that he will in his good time doe it all honour. In which hope we ſtande before the Lord, and wayte ſtill vponupon him, till hee may giuegive order and commaundement for the taking away of all vnholy and profane ceremonies, ſuperſtitions, and vſurpations from his Church, & eſpeciallie ignoraunce, negligence, couetouſnes, and ambition from the Miniſters of it, which as vnſeemely and defyled garmentes diſhonour the glorie of the ſame, and for the furniſhing of the Church with lawfull and holy orders, offices, and authoritie, and the miniſterie of it chieflie with godly wiſedome and faithfulnes, which may bee vntounto both, as the ornament of Aarons head, promiſed to Iehoſhuah. This is the aunſwere that I hauehave to make to this ſober exhortation of the Replyer,Zach. 3.5. and to all ſuch as being herein no better aduyſed then he is, ſhall at any time vſe the like. The next quarell is about the ſenſe of ciuill Magiſtrates, vnderunder whom the Declaration ſayeth, the Church is ſo bleſſed, notwithſtanding they bee not the greateſt fauourers of the Church.

Wherein firſte inquyring whether this bee meant of hir right Excellent Maieſtie, (a queſtion voyde of all reaſonable iudgement and vnderſtanding, the wordes being moſt direct to the contrarie) he gathereth after, ſundrie thinges, whiche vncharitably he would impute to the Declaration. But the Declaration in all places ſpeaketh reuerentlie and duetifullie, as it becommeth one, that is well inſtructed of the honour that is due to that highe and ſoueraigne authoritie, whiche God hath honoured hir Maieſtie withall, to the great comfort of all hir faythfull and loyall ſubiectes: although in deede it vſe not that gloſing ſtyle nor palpable flatterie, neyther in mention of hir higheſt eſtate, nor of the eſtates neare vntounto it, which is vſed by ambitious ſuters for benefices and Biſhoprikes. The ſpeache of the Declaration being ſuch as I hauehave ſaide, and hauing no eye to the ſoueraingtie, which God hath ſet ouer vsus, yet, as one that will not leaue to vſe wringing and violence till he drawe bloud, ſo ceaſeth he not, but ſtrayneth and wringeth till he may drawe out ſome bloudy accuſation of ſlaunderous and vnduetiful ſpeache of her Maieſtie.Prou. 30.33. Which becauſe it needeth no aunſwere on our parte, and the very repetition of his vnſeemely ſpeaches and ſtryuing about them, can not but be offenſiue to the duetifull ſubiect: I ſtand not vppon it. But whereas he would proue both by other places and by the Prophete Eſay, that God doeth a great fauour to his Church, when he raiſeth vp Princes to fauour and perfect them, he is to vnderſtande, wee no les acknowledge the goodnes of God herein, then any other. The words of the Prophet which he alleadgeth, are theſe:Eſa. 49.23. Kings ſhalbe thy nourcing Fathers, and Queenes ſhalbe thy Nources: they ſhall worſhip thee with their faces towardes the earth, and like the dust of thy feete: and thou ſhalt knowe that I am the Lord for they ſhall not be aſhamed that wayte for me. Wherein the Prophete noteth by the ſimilitudes of Foſter fathers and Nourſes, the louelove, care, faithfulnes, watchfulnes, and diligence that Princes ſhall hauehave to preſerue, mainteyne, nouriſhe, and comfort the Church: and in the bowing the heade to the grounde, the honour they ſhall doe to our Sauiour Chriſte, the heade of the Church, and conſequentlie to the Church it ſelfe, in him. For in bowing them ſelues to lowe, as doeing homage to the Sonne of GOD, they promiſe all faythfull duetie, ſeruice and obedience vntounto him.

The performance whereof is to renounce in them ſelues, and to aboli he from amongeſt their people, all falſe worſhip, and idolatrie, with like zeale as Ezekiah and Ioſiah did, and to eſtabliſhe in all partes the trew worſhip of God, as our Sauiour Chriſt hath taught it, and commanded it to be obſerued. We ought to reioyce when any yeeld any maner of obedience to our Sauiour Chriſt, and ſhould we not much more reioyce to ſee any obedience in Princes? But when they bow ſo lowe before our Sauiour Chriſt, and doe that honor to him, as that at his cōmandement, moſt notorious ſuperſtition & idolatrie is publikely caſt out of their kingdomes and countreis, and the doctrine, neceſſarie to ſaluation, is authoriſed to bee preached & publiſhed to their people. Exceeding great cauſe of comfort & reioycing ought it to be to all the Church. Which is yet increaſed as their obedience and ſeruice ſhall abound, and when the Church doeth ſee them bowe downe ſo lowe, to the Sonne of God, as to honour, ſerue and obey him in all things, which he hath commanded. For exceeding great increaſe is it of the honor of our Sauiour Chriſt, and therefore conſequentlie alſo of the comfort & ioy of the Church, when the houſe & kingdome of God is guyded by thoſe ordinances and lawes onelyonly which the onelyonly Lord thereof hath appoynted. When no offices hauehave place in his Church, but ſuch as he hath ordayned, and when all ſuch are placed in it, as hee hath commaunded. When they are called to theſe charges by ſuch order as he hath preſcribed, and walke duetifullie in the ſame as aperteineth: the eſtabliſhing of theſe things in their due order in eueryevery competent congregation of Gods people, and the obedience of all eſtates of the ſame, is ſo great a benefite, as he were worthie to ſorrowe, that ſhould not reioyce at ſo great bleſſings. Whiche being as in all other partes of the Lande, ſo more carefully obſerued in eueryevery place, as it excelleth other: both for the honor of them whom God hath ſo exalted, and their good example amongſt the people, muſt needes be a ioyfull and cōfortable ſpectacle to all the church. But yet a more heauenly ſight (all men muſt needes acknowledge it) to ſee the Royall houſe & court of a ſoueraigne Prince, to hauehave ſuch order eſtabliſhed in it, that is the holy Goſpell of our Sauiour Chriſt, vponupon the Sabboth day, and other conuenient times in the weeke, to be ſoundly & ſincerely preached in it by miniſters not charged with any other people, but appointed for the ſeruice of that chief part of the Church, and therefore alſo of greateſt graces of godly wiſedome, and faithfulnes, and euerie good and heauenly gifte meete for ſo precious a charge, the holy Sacramentes duely adminiſtred, the Lords watch carefully ſet, for the preſeruation of the chiefe towre of Ieruſalem, his holy Treaſurie regarded, and all thoſe ſacred aſſemblies caried with a godly reuerence. In all which high ſolemnities and heauenlie meetings for the worſhip of Almightie God. Howe great a ioye to ſee preſent there the ſoueraigne Prince, as Dauid, Salomon, Hezekiah, Ioſiah, and other Kings of Juda, 2. Sam. 6.15.16.1. 1. Kin 3.1.5. 2. Kin 19.1.2 14.15. 2. Chr. 29.20 2. Chro. 34.29.30.are reported to hauehave bin, and to hauehave had their place, for the purpoſe prouided for them, where to preſent them ſelues before the Lord, to increaſe in the knowlege & obedience of his wil, by the miniſterie of his ſeruantes? How great a ioy, to ſee their right honorable coūſell of eſtate keping the Lords Sabboth in ſuch order, & all the Princes & Nobles, which for any honorable ſeruice, giuegive their attendance with all other officers of the houſholde, togither yeelding audience & worſhip to Almightie God, and his onelyonly Sonne Chriſt Ieſus, accordinge to the golden ſaying of that famous and worthie Joſhua, I and myne houſe will ſerue the Lorde, and accordinge to the exhortation, which ſayth: Be wyſe nowe therfore ye Kings: Pſa. 2.10.11.12.be learned ye Judges of the earth. Serue the Lorde in feare, & reioyce in trembling. Kiſſe the Sonne least he be angrie, and ye periſh in the way, when his wrath ſhall ſuddenlie burne, bleſſed are all that trust in him. To ſee theſe things would be greater ioy, then the ioy whiche the Queene of Saba had for the like ſight in Salomons Court, and the greateſt that the Church can hauehave, till it be taken vp into the heauenly Jeruſalem, Heb. 12. ver 22.23.24.to the moſt ſolemne & glorious aſſemblie of the ſpirites of the iuſt that are perfited in heauen, to the thouſandes of Angels, and to the preſence of the liuing God, and of our Sauiour Chriſt his onelyonly begotten Sonne, the Mediatour of the newe Teſtament, and the Reconciler of vsus to God his Father by his precious bloud. Loe, the benefite & the comfort that we acknowledge the Church of God receyueth, when that prophecie of Eſay is fulfilled. Therefore in vayne & to no good purpoſe, doeth the Replier aske whether this bleſſing be turned into a curſe, and whether we can conclude becauſe the golde is finer that is tryed ſeuen times in the fornace, and the perſecutions of the Church redounde in the ende both to the greater glorie of God, & the better confirmation of the church. Whether I ſay for this cauſe wee can conclude, that in perſecution the church is more perfect in all hir regiment, and in moſt bleſſed eſtate: applying corruptly herevnto that place of the Apoſtle, becauſe where ſinne abounded, grace did more abounde, Shall we therefore abyde in ſinne, that grace may abounde? Rom. 5.20. Rom. 6.1.So if by an extraordinarie merciemercy of God, the church ſemed in ſome reſpects to be in moſt bleſſed eſtate in perſecution, ſhall wee ſay that perſecution is better for the Church then peace and proſperitie vnderunder a Chriſtian Magiſtrate? The anſwere wherevnto is playne, that all other things being alike, and the difference of the Church ſtande onelyonly in this, of being defended by a Chriſtian Prince, or perſecuted by an Enemie, it is to be eſteemed a ſpeciall and hye fauour of God to be ſo ſhielded and comforted, and fitter for the generall and ordinarie courſe of gouerning the Church, then tymes of trouble which are ſubiect to a thouſand inconueniences. But this nothing concerneth the Declaration, which only ſhewing by experience of former and preſent times that the regiment of the Church was, is, and may be moſt perfect euen where it wanteth the great comfort of the fauour of an earthlie Prince, argueth thereby the order which is followed in that treatiſe, to be lawful and good. So as if he would hauehave ſpoken to the poynt, that the declaration ſtandeth vponupon, he had bene to ſhewe that the regiment of the Church neuer was, nor can be perfect, without a Chriſtian Magiſtrate. Which poynt hee would ſeeme alſo to growe nearer to, in that which followeth, wherein he laboureth to ſhewe the imperfection of the regiment of the primitiue Church by theſe reaſons. The regiment ſayeth he, was abuſed in thoſe that had giftes of tongues, of healing, &c. Which is not ſo, for the abuſe of a thing proueth not t'him perfectiō of it. The light of the Sunne by day, of the Moone and ſtarres by night, yea all the creatures of God are abuſed: yet this proueth not the light of the Sunne to be imperfect, or the ſtate of other creatures in their originall creation, at which time alſo they were abuſed. The word of God is abuſed diuerſlie,Phil. 1.15. ſome preaching it for contention, ſome for vayn glorie, ſome for couetouſnes to attayne to great worldly liuings and dignities, yet is the worde perfect,2. Cor. 2.17. as the Prophete ſayth in the Pſalme. So in the primitiue church,Pſal. 19.7. the regiment and the order of it ſet downe, whereby it was to be gouerned, might be perfect, as it was in deede, notwithſtanding it were trewe, that ſome abuſed it, but that alſo is not ſhewed that the regiment is abuſed. For the abuſe of the ſpirituall giftes was a diſorder of particular perſons, & not any imperfection in the regiment. Where by when the diſorder brake out, it was corrected & redreſſed. The perfectiō of the regiment of the church can not make that offences and diſorders ſhould not be committed, which thorowe the infirmitie and corruption of our nature will be, and hath bin at all times, but it may remedie and reforme them when they breake out. The ſame is to be ſayde of his next reaſon, that at that time there were falſe Apoſtles, Paſtours, Teachers, and Deacons, which being graunted argueth not the imperfection of the regiment of the Church at that time, but rather it being playne, that they who were ſuch, were by that regiment diſcouered and corrected as appertayned, proueth the perfection of it. His third and laſt reaſon, is, that there were no ſuch gouernours in the primitiue Church to guyde it, as the declaration affirmeth there were, or els their authoritie extended not to correct ſo many fowle offences, as were in that time, or els they did not their duetie, or the people would not be ruled by them. Any of which latter poyntes being ſuch as might fall out, and yet the regiment perfect, as if his proofe reſted wholy vponupon this, whether there were any ſuch Elders in the Church at that time or no, he leaueth all the other, and goeth about onelyonly to proue that one poynt. Which, becauſe he doeth it moſt impertinentlie by alleadging 1. Corinth. the 6. Chapter, whiche ſerueth nothinge willinglie his purpoſe, but is drawen and haled to it by violence. And becauſe I doubt not, but if he thinke in deed there be any thing in that place for him, wee ſhall heare it agayne, and eſpeciallie becauſe he hath a whole booke after of that matter, I leaue it till we may come to it in order.

In his diſcourſe vponupon this place, beſides the chiefe purpoſe of handling it alreadie touched, he noteth that vnderunder Chriſtian Princes, we are not bound to ſet vp priuate men to iudge our cauſes, as they were wiſhed, and herevpon gathereth that it were a daungerous thinge to followe the primitiue Churches regiment in ſo doing. Wherein, if there bee a ſparke of true light in him, he might perceyue that they were willed to doe ſo,1. Cor. 6.1. to auoyde pleading before infidells. Which cauſe being taken away, where God giueth his Church Chriſtian Magiſtrates, it is playne, that ought to ceaſe with the cauſe. Further, that was no parte of the eccleſiaſticall regiment, that the Apoſtle there ſpeaketh of: yet he groweth from this particular to a generall caution, of not making ordinarie rules of particular examples, or commaundements of the Apoſtles, nor of our Sauiour Chriſt,Mat. 10.9.10 examplifying it by the cōmaundementes to the Diſciples, of not taking any thing with them in their iourney to preache, of abſteyning from Idoles, bloud, & ſtrangled (where I knowe not why he hath lefte out fornification, which is alſo mentioned with the reſt in that text) and of praying bareheaded, as he tranſlateth it, 1. Corint. 11. But, ſayeth he, although there be no expreſſe mention, howe long theſe things ſhould continue yet leaueling theſe by the analogie of our faith and Chriſtian libertie we finde no neceſſitie of theſe or any other ſuch like orders, whereby he would implye the like of the regiment of the Churche then vſed, and leaue it nowe to our ſelues to deuiſe an order that may bee thought meete. Which reaſon if it were good, would ouerthrowe all Chriſtian Religion. For if it bee ſo as hee teacheth, what ſhall binde the church. If neyther examples, nor cōmaundement, neither of our Sauiour Chriſt, nor of his Apoſtles ſhall binde vsus, but he will ſaye, hee ſpeaketh of particular examples and rules: but I aunſwere he would applye this to generall & perpetuall examples and commaundements ſuch as that Diſcipline ſet downe in the Declaration is grounded vponupon, as hath bene ſhewed before. And for thoſe that are particular, he leuelleth fayre, but commeth not neare the marke by a myle, for none of thoſe he mentioneth were contrarie as they were commaunded, either to the analogie of faith, or to Chriſtian libertie: for if they had, they could not hauehave bounde thoſe to whom they were giuen at that time. Therefore to hitte his marke, he muſt take another leuell, and conſider the reaſon of ſuch rules and commandements, which caryeth in it the light and the lyfe of the cōmaundementes. For where that reaſon holdeth not, there are we free from the cōmaundement, but where the reaſon is in force, there are we no les bounde to the ſubſtance and effect of ſuch particular commandement then they were. So if there could be like reaſon as cauſed that commandement to the Diſciples, we were in ſuch caſe to keepe it, & where the ſame offence is iuſtlie to be feared in eatinge of meates forbiddē, as was then & may be in many like caſes now & to the end, there that order of the Apoſtles bindeth. As for the laſt place out of the 1. Corinth. 11. if he looke better vponupon it, hee ſhall finde that the Apoſtle groundeth that order there preſcribed vponupon ſo generall and neceſſarie reaſons of the ordinance of GOD, the glorie of our Sauiour Chriſte, the regarde of Angelles, and the voyce of nature, and the cuſtome of all the Churches, as hee hath taken his leuell farre amiſſe to leaue it at libertie, whether a man keepe it or no: prouided, that hee vnderſtande the Apoſtles meaninge aright: which is, that men and women, eſpecially being preſent in the publike aſſemblies of the church ſhould carie the marke of their creation, agreeable to the ſexe whereof they were: the woman wearing vponupon hir head a vayle or kerchief, or ſuch other attyre, (according to the lawfull cuſtome of their Countrey and place of aboade) as declareth her ſexe and ſubiection to man by ſuch couerture of her head. And the man, by not wearing any ſuch attyre vppon his head, as is proper to womankinde, but by wante of any ſuch vponupon his head, hewe the glorie of Chriſt, and the honour that in the order of creation is beſtowed vponupon men. Therefore notwithſtanding his caution or any thing here alleadged to the contrarie, it remayneth firme and ſtable, that the conſtant and perpetuall examples of the Churches, the orders, rules, and commaundements of our Sauiour Chriſt, and of his Apoſtles, both for the poyntes of doctrine to be beleeued, and alſo for ſuch as are to bee obeyed and practiſed in the publique gouernement of the Church, and in the priuate lyfe of eueryevery one, doe binde the conſcience of all the people of God to keepe and to obey them: yea the moſt particular rules, the like caſe and reaſon being in vsus, that was in them to whom they were giuen. There followeth a little needles proofe, that Magiſtrates are neceſſarie, whiche being knowen ſufficientlie, and confeſſed of all, I proceede to that which followeth. That which followeth is a replie to the concluſion, which the Declaration gathereth of the former reaſon ſet downe in theſe wordes: By which it is manifest, that the regiment and gouernement thereof, dependeth not vppon the authoritie of Princes, but vponupon the ordinaunce of God, who hath most mercifullie and wiſely ſo establiſhed the ſame, that as with the comfortable ayde of Christian Magistrates, it may ſingularlie flouriſh and proſper, ſo without it, it may continue, and againſt the aduerſaries thereof preuayle. For the Church craueth helpe and defence of Christian Princes to continue, and goe forwarde more peaceably and profitably, to the ſetting vp of the kingdome of Christ: but all hir authoritie ſhe receyueth immediatly frō God.

The Replyer can not or will not ſee that which is manifeſt, but denieth this conſequence to ſeeme ſo to him, and here his ſeas ryſe ſo hye, that, he ſayth, it is manifeſt violent concluſion, yea a manifeſt iniurie both to God and his Church, and to all the authoritie of all Chriſtian Princes, and moſt manifeſt wrong vntounto her Maieſtie. If the lawe of God had not forbidden it, that anie matter ſhould be helde certayne in iudgement vnderunder two or three witneſſes: and if the teſtimonie of one man were inough to condemne another, it would hauehave gone hard. I ſee, with the authour of the declaratiō: but ſeeing his worde is to carrie no more credit with it then he can bring ſufficient reaſon for it to make it good, let his reaſon be conſidered. His reaſon is, that it is inſinuated that hir Maieſtie, for clayming ſupreme authoritie in eccleſiaſticall cauſes claymeth withall that the regiment of the Church dependeth vppon hir authoritie. Which if any reaſonable man liuing, that is not a parciall fauourer, or fauourite, of the Hierarchie, can gather out of theſe wordes of the Declaration, I pleade for it no longer. But this (he ſayeth) is aggreeued in the oppoſition of Gods ordinance, to the authoritie of Princes, as if Magiſtracie were not the ordinance of God: addinge, that neyther Papiſtes nor Anabaptiſtes could hauehave ſet downe a ſharper cōcluſion againſt th'authoritie of Princes then this is. Whiche are falſe alarums, and exclamations, or accuſations as vayne as the curſe that is cauſeles,Prou. 26.2. and therefore (as Salomon ſayth) vaniſhe away in the ayre. Which although it hauehave no proofe nor ſenſe it it, yet paſſing on to the next wordes of the Declaratiō, Which (he ſayeth) are added to ſmooth the former, hee maketh another loude outcrie: This is another great iniurie offered to Chriſtian Princes, who by theſe wordes are thruſt not onelyonly out of all authoritie in the Church, but eyther out of the Church altogither as no part of it at all, or at leaſt a contentions part, ſtriuing in the Church for authoritie.

His proofe is this: For what els meane they by theſe words, The Church craueth helpe and defence of Christian Princes, but that they ſeparate the Chriſtian Prince, and the Church. If the honourable ſworde of iuſtice committed to ſoueraigne Princes, for protecting the good ſubiect, and puniſhinge the euill, were at the commaundement of ſuch Chapleynes, as this Replyer is, I ſee by his often accuſations of ſlaundering, and iniuring the Prince, without all cauſe or colour, it would leeſe the honour it ought to hauehave, being made a weapon of iniuſtice. In the lawe of Moſes, if a man had charged another with any crime,Deut. 19.19. if he made not good proofe of his accuſation, as he would hauehave done to another by his falſe witneſſe, ſo was it to be done to him, whether it were a matter of member or of lyfe. If the Replyer feared to bee dealte with according to this rule, he would not bee ſo readie, to laye ſo great crymes to any mans charge vppon no reaſon. But becauſe informers may bee hearde, they ſaye, for the Prince, and neuer come to queſtion, although the accuſation be neuer ſo vniuſt, it ſeemeth hee emboldeneth him ſelfe vppon ſome ſuch like aſſurance.

By this occaſion hee inquireth who ſhould bee meant by the Church, whether the people, (whiche hee thinketh can not) or the foure Tetrarkes, as hee calleth them in his ſcorners ſpeache, and this hee taketh, and compareth them with popiſhe prieſtes, who hee ſayeth, gaue the ſame power and authoritie vntounto Chriſtian Princes, that is giuen heere, and with better tearmes. Wherein if hee looke backe to former tymes, or conſider well what the papiſtes eſteeme of the othe of the Supremacie, and what is done in kingdomes ſubiect to the Biſhop of Roome, and compare it with that which the Declaration, and all they in whoſe behalfe it was publiſhed, doe moſt willinglie acknowledge by proteſtation, and alſo by othe, to bee the moſte due honour of the Soueraigne Magiſtrate: hee ſhall eaſelie ſee, howe vniuſt this charge is, as well as are his other. There was a purpoſe, I thinke, hee will ſaye, when the ſtatute for recognition of hir Maieſties Souueraingtie was made, to agniſe to the vttermoſt by that othe all the Regalities, rightes and honours due to that high and ſoueraigne eſtate. Whiche if it were attayned vntounto, howe can hee charge anie with derogation from the Princes right, and iuſt authoritie, that taketh willinglie that othe, and acknowledgeth the authoritie there agnized, euen as it is expounded by hir Maieſties owne iniunctions, by the Articles of the conuocation houſe, and ſundrie bookes publiſhed with great allowance of the ſtate. But to this poynt there is ſufficientlie ſayde before, both in this treatiſe, and in the anſwere to the preface of his replie.

He cauilleth here about that the Declaration ſayeth, All the authoritie which the Church hath, is immediatlie of God, and mooueth manie friuoulous queſtions about it. But if hee had diſallowed it, he ſhould hauehave entred into the handling of it, and ſhewed by ſufficient proofe of holy Scripture, that the Church holdeth not all hir authoritie immediatly of God, but holdeth ſome part of it, mediatlie of Princes, as meane Lordes vnderunder the higheſt. Some offer hee maketh of it, alleadginge the authoritie of the godlie and vertuous Kings and Rulers of Jſraell and Iuda, which if it be all that he can ſay in that cauſe, let him vnderſtande, that as it hath bin in this cauſe profeſſed on our behalfe by ſome other, ſo nowe agayne we truely and vnfaynedly profeſſe to acknowledge in Chriſtian Princes, all that power and authoritie that the Prophetes doe any where iuſtifie to hauehave bin in the Rulers of Gods people at any time.

I adde yet further, that whereas he pretendinge to ſpeake moſt largelie of this authoritie, ſayeth: Princes hauehave not the eccleſiasticall Ministers peculiar offices and eccleſiasticall authoritie to execute the actes, proper to their eccleſiasticall functions, but hauehave authoritie to ouerſee, gouerne and direct all eccleſiasticall perſons to doe their dueties in all eccleſiasticall cauſes, and hauehave the highest authoritie (that is ciuill) in the Church, for the orderinge, dispoſinge, and authorizinge anie order or constitution eccleſiasticall in indifferent matters:

Wee acknowledge and profeſſe the ſame.

Where, if we be nothing ſhort, of the largeſt meaſure that hee can laye before vsus, I truſt he will hereafter teache his tongue to ſpeake, and his penne to write of vsus more agreeably to Chriſtian charitie, wiſedome and modeſtie, then hee hath done in this firſt booke of his Reply. Whiche ending heere with a contrarie concluſion to the Declaration for the order of the treatiſe (a matter little worthie the ſtriuing about) I leaue the conſideration of it to the Chriſtian Reader, vppon ſuch reaſons as hauehave bene debated betweene vsus, and ende alſo here the firſte part of this my labour.

FINIS.

End of the text · Walter Travers, Defense of the Ecclesiastical Discipline (1588)

Defense of the Ecclesiastical Discipline, Tract (5 of 5)