A Reply to a Pretended Christians Plea for the Church of Rome, Part 14
Touching Hos. 13. 1.
THe last placé which here I cited was Hos. 13. 1. where Ephraim offended (or synned) in Baal, and dyed: whence I judged their estate to be dead in syn.
To this mine opposite *Chr. plea pag. 88.sayth, the same terme and phrase is used by Christ, of the church of Sardis. Thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead, Rev. 3. 1. Should we now inferr hereupon, that therfore baptisme and the other ordinances of God, in the church of Sardis, were but in shew reteyned therin, and could not be unto them the signes & seals of the forgivenes of synns and of life eternal: and therfore were in their use of them false and deceyefull, a… were the ordinances of God, reteyned among the Gentiles? Would any man of heart and understanding, endure such blasphemie? Sayth not the Scripture, that the church of Sardis, was one of the seven golden candlesticks? &c.
Answ. A man of understanding, wil discerne things that differ, and be caried by judgment, not by affection. The syn of Sardis, was secret hypocrisie, the syn of Ephraim was open idolatrie: the death of Sardis was discerned of Christ, (who searcheth †Rev. 2. 23.the heart & reines:) the death of Ephraim, was discerned of men, who can judge but by the works. Sardis had a name among the churches, to be alive: when for the most part they were dead before God; though some things remayned which are but ready to dye, vers. 2. and a few among them, were worthy ones, and undefiled, vers. 4. Ephraim was openly knowen to be fallen from God to Baal, by the Prophets, and by the church of Iudah. Hypocrites in all true churches, are dead before God, though alive before men. So Simon Magus was alive in the judgment of the Apostolik church, and baptised therin, Act. 8. when before God he was dead. His baptisme was true baptisme so farr as men could judge: though to himself before God, he received *1 Cor. 11. 9.judgment therby, not being a worthy partaker. But had he been an open worshiper of Baal, and baptised or circumcised among the Baalists; it could not by men have been judged a true signe and seale of the forgivenes of his synns, he remayning unrepentant. They that should so affirme, should themselves not be farr from blasphemie, before men of understanding, that know upon what conditions the covenant of grace is made between God and men. They in Sardis that were dead, that is without true faith, (for by †Rom. 1. 17.saith, the just doth live,) could not by the sacraments or by any ordinance in the church be partakers of Christ, of his death or resurrection before God: so their baptisme was to them *Rom. 2.no baptisme. And had they been so discerned of men, their baptisme should so have been judged by men. As the Canaanites in Sichem, †Gen. 3.their circumcision was uncircumcision, before men; and not the signe and seale of the “Rom. 4.righteousnes of faith, when they had no faith: for the unbeleever remayneth in the state of damnation, Mar. 16. 16. and the baptisme that saveth, is not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience towards God, as th'Apostle suyth; 1 Pet. 3. 21.
That which he further annexeth, that I say their reasons from Israel, might well serve for the times wherein John lived, when the *Rev. 2. 3. ch.true churches were many of them apostate: wherupon he noteth, my contradicting of my selfe &c. was a mistaking, that I distinguished not the state of Iudah, which was a true church corrupted, from Israel a false church: and so the true churches apostate in th'Apostles time, Revel. 2. & 3. from the false churches also in those times, 1. Ioh. 2. 19. Into which oversight I fell, by their citing undistinctly, Jer. 3. and Esai 50. the one speaking of Israel, the other of Iudah; as is to be seen in their Advertisement pag. 107. wherto I gave answer, in Animadvers. p. 103.
Secondly, he pleadeth, if Hose. 13. 1. be understood of death in syn, yet let it be well considered, wh…ther it will therfore follow, that Circumcision now in Israel was not the Lords signe and seale of his forgivenes of syn, but a false and deceitfull signe in their use therof, and no better then the ordinances of the heathen. For Christ sayd, Let the dead bury their dead &c. Luke 9. 60. was circumcision then among the Iewes, a false and deceitfull signe in their life therof &c.
Answ. He runneth into his former errour: the Iewish church in Christs time was a true church, and Christ communicated in their Temple and sacrifices: Israel when they served Baal, was a false church: and no man might awfully communicate with their Temple and sacrifices. Christ speaketh not of the Church generally, but of such as he knew to be hypocrites and dead, though seeming alive: we speak of Ephraim generally, open offenders, serving Baal, and dead in the judgement of the Saincts. The same I answer to his next instance of the church of Ephesus, which then when Paul wrote, was not the house of Baal, but of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth, 1 Tim. 3. 15. Moreover he citeth not my words sincerely▪ I spake of the seale of forgivenes of synns … them: neyther did I say, no better then the ordinances of the heathen, which the reader may understand, the ordinances devised by the heathens themselves; but I sayd, in their use of them false and deceitfull; … were also the ordinances of God, reteyned in other nations; as altars, sacrifices &c. touching whose estate I have spoken of before.
Thirdly he excepteth, that Baals worship was first instituted by Achab, about 60. yeres after Ieroboam, and great difference was between Ieroboams calves, and Baals idolatrie &c.
Answ. It is not material to our question, who spake of Israels circumcision in their apostasie in generall, before and after they were out of the land; as before I have manifested. 2. I acknowledge Achabs syn was greater then Ieroboams, and false churches may grow worse and worse: yet Ieroboams calves, were also Divils, as the holy Ghost calleth them, 2. Chron. 11. 15.
Fourthly he instanceth, the 7000 in Israel, that bowed not the knee to Baal: 1. King. 19. 18. asking, what we shall say to these? were they not circumcised? or had they not the circumcision that was then in Jsrael? or was it not to them the Lords seale of forgivenes of synns? &c.
Answ. The instance is good, to clear the controversie, by the help of other scriptures. In Rom. 11. Paul speaking of the rejection of the Iewes, sayth, Hath God cast away his people? Farr be it: For I also am an Israelite &c. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Then speaking of Elias prayer against Israel▪ and Gods answer, J have reserved to my self 7000. men, who have not bowed the knee to (the image of) Baal. Even so then (sayth †vers. 5.he) at this present time also there is a remnant, according to the election of grace: &c. By this we are taught, 1. That if a few, or any one of a people be reserved of God, though the multitude be cast away; yet it cannot be sayd absolutely, that God hath cast away his people. And this may lead us to understand, why God called Israel his people in their apostasie; because some he kept from falling into it, some he brought out of it by repentance. 2. That those are in deed Gods people, whom he foreknew: the rest are cast off. Now those which are foreknowen of God, are described thus, that he also did predestinate them to be conformed to the image of his sont▪ them he also called; them he also justified▪ them he also glorified▪ Rom. 8. 2… ▪ … ▪ Thus are we led to judge who are Gods people, when we see their calling▪ justifying▪ and gloryfying▪ that is their sanctification▪ … ▪ Cor. 3… ▪ …8. by which i… charitie we are to judge of their predestination, and estate in grace. 3. That as the remnant of the Iewes, which imbraced the gospel, were the election of grace, that is the people whom in charitie we should judge to be elected of God according to his grace; and the others are blinded, hardned, cast off, til God give them repentance: so in Israel, they that kept themselves from the cōmon idolatrie of Baal, inwardly and outwardly, and reteyned the true service of God, were his election of grace, and to be judged his true people; the others that synned in Baal, were dead; til God gave them repentance unto life. Thus the Apostles exposition and application of those 7000. in Israel; may help us to judge of their estate aright. And not because circumcision was unto them the seale of grace and of forgivenes of synns; to conclude, that therfore it was likeweise to them that served Baal: for so we should prostitute Gods grace and the seals therof, to such as God condemneth and rejecteth.
Fiftly he instanceth the worship of Baal by Iudah, Ier. 7. Judg. 2. &c. Wherto I answer (as before) that Iudah in her constitution remayned a true church, though corrupted: Israel being a false church, as hath been manifested. Neyther was the defection universall and open as in Israel. As for such in Iudah as so fell from God, and would not be brought to repentance, the Prophet telleth them they trusted in lying words, when they sayd, The Temple of the Lord, the Temple of the Lord &c. Ier. 7. 4. 8. the Lord threatneth to cast them out of his sight, and forbad his Prophet to pray for them, Jer. 7. 15. 16. So their circumcision became unto them uncircumcision, Rom. 2. 25.
To this he objecteth, Though mans idolatrie &c may make Gods sacraments improfitable to himself; yet can they not make them lying and deceitfull signes, but that in the Lords ordinance they are unto all and therfore also unto them, his true signes and faithfull seals (on his part) of forgivenes of synns and life eternal. For, shall the infidelitie of man, turne the truth of God into a lye? God forbid.
Answ. I have before answered, that all Gods ordinances are in them selves, and on his part, holy faithfull and true. They are true seals of forgivenes of synns, but to such as are worthy partakers of them, in faith; otherweise they seale judgment unto men: 1 Cor. 11. 27. 28 29. And it is not his ordinance, that open and obstinate idolaters and wicked men, should administer or receive them, Ezek. 44. 9. Numb. 15. 30. 31. Levit. 7. 20. Psalm. …. 1…. 17. That men may turne the truth of God into a lye. the Apostle plainly teacheth, Rom. 1. 25. so may they the truth of his ordinances, into lyes. But the truth of God, as it is in himself, or his faithfulnes, is unchangeable: & if men beleeve not, or sanctifie him not, they perish by the judgment of God, which is according to trueth; and his faithfulnes suffreth him not to save such, unless he make them first new creatures and beleevers; Joh. 3. 36. 1. Joh. 5. 10. 12.
Sixtly, he expoundeth Israels death in Hos. 13. 1. to be (by the exposition of sundry writers) not death in syn, but slayn for their synns; or their estate overthrowen, or neer utter destruction. &c.
Answ. Both may be true; that first they were dead in syn, and after destroyed civilly for their syn. Gods judgmēts are according to mens deserts; he destroyed not the Amorites, Egyptians, and other nations, til their iniquitie was full. Gen. 15. 16. Wherfore to condemne the exposition which I gave, because an other consequent folowed upon it, as the ruine of Achabs house, or the like; is no fitme argument. And to his many expositors whom he citeth, I oppose one greater then all, even th'Apostle in Rom. 11. before spoken of: who sheweth the election of grace to be in the 7000 that worshiped not Baal: and not in the multitude of the Baalists. And if they were not of the election of grace, then were they dead in syn, though he and many say the contrary.
Finally he alleageth the sayings of the Prophet before and after, The Lord found Iakob in Bethel, and there he spake with us, &c, Therfore turne thou to thy God &c. Hos. 12. 4. 5. 6. 9. And, yet am J the Lord thy God, from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no God but me. I did know thee in the wildernes &c. Hose. 13. 4. 5.
Answ. I have before shewed, that the prophets speak to Israel, as a corporation or body, which after a sort continueth one and the same through many generations; when yet, as touching their particular persons or generations, they are different & contrary; as godly fathers in the state of grace and life, may beget wicked children without grace, and in state of death. Ezek. 18. 9. 10. 13. 14. 17. 18. &c. So the King of Tyre had been in Eden the garden of God, (a proselyte in the Church) Ezek. 28. 13. not that heathen king then living, but his predecessor Huram, long before. 1. King. 5. So Paul speaketh of the Iewes cast away of God, as the same people, till their last calling, Rom. 11. And I doubt not, but a man preaching to convert them at this day, might apply unto them the like sayings, I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, thou shalt know no God but me: J led thee in the wildernes &c. But alwayes in such general phrases, the promises of grace belong onelyonly to such as beleeve and turne to the Lord: the others that remaine hardned, shall perish.
And hitherto of his exceptions against the scriptures which I cited: although (as I shewed) if they had continued Gods true church in the land; yet whē they were for obstinacie in their synns cast out of it, had the bill of divorce, were not the people or wife of the Lord: their circumcision could be no seale from God unto them of forgivenes of synns, & eternal life, in that estate.
That which after he prosequuteth touching the heathens state, I have answered before. And as for his other exceptions or repetitions touching Israel; they are such as are before answered; and it is not a thing so necessarie to be insisted upon, touching their estate before they were cast out of the land; seing their circumcisiō in the ages folowing, (when th'Apostle testifieth they were not a people, or partakers of Gods merciemercy, 1. Pet. 2. and when all doe acknowledge they had the bill of divorce, Ier. 3.) was not repeated when they came againe to the Lord, Ezr. 6. 21. Here therfore I will end; and leave the things that have been controverted, to the discreet censure of the judicious reader.