Showing the Necessity of Conformity, Treatise · Reformed practices · Practice

Showing the Necessity of Conformity · Treatise · Reformed practices · Practice

p. 159Secondly alſo after the ſuruay of their iudgement, we will take a view of their practiſe alſo, what it hath beene in this reſpect.

In Geneua about Wafer-bread in the Lords Supper: This Church in the reformation thereof vſed common bread in the Lords Supper, and had aboliſhed the vſe of the Wafer-cake, as alſo their fontes to be baptiſed in, and all their holy dayes except the Lords day: Now it fell out that the Church of Berne aſſembling a Synod required a reſtoring of theſe things vntounto the Churches of Geneua, Caluin. Coraldus, and Farell refuſing to conſent vntounto them, or to adminiſter the Sacrament in ſuch maner, they were baniſhed therupon the Citie of Geneua, and within three dayes after their refuſall, were depriued of the vſe of their Miniſtery in that place, the great part commanding ouer the better. Now in their abſence ſundry godly perſons were ſo offended, with this change from common bread to the Wafer-cake, as that they thought beſt for them to abſtaine from the Lords Supper, and to ſeparate from their Miniſtry, rather then vſe the ſame with the ſayd Wafer-bread: Whereupon Caluin. ſeriò monuit ne ob iſtud foreign litem mouerent, ſeriouſly admoniſhed them that they would not raiſe contention about this indifferent matter, which is ſet downe in his Epiſtle 17. fol. 37. 38. 39. 40. ſo (ſaith Beza) the vſe of the Wafer-bread tooke place and was eſtabliſhed; about the which, Caluin after he was reſtored to his Miniſtry againe [Nunquam contendendum putauit, minimè tamen diſſimulans quid alioqui magis eſſet probaturus] did not thinke it meete to contend, yet not diſſembling his minde what otherwiſe he did meane to approue. Beza in vita Caluini anno. 1538.

In Germany, about excommunication and diſcipline, Bullinger: There was neuer any contention about excommunication betweene our Church of Zuricke, and the Church of Geneua moſt beloued of vsus, Apud Eraſt. de excom. fol. 365. alſo in another place: In the meane ſpace, wee neuer condemned the Church of Geneua which hath p. 160her diſcipline, albeit, we hauehave none, Ibid. fol. 350.

About the Surpleſſe: It being inioyned to the Miniſters of Sueuia; they vtterly relinquiſhed their Miniſtery rather then they would conforme vntounto it: this practiſe did Melancthon, and Pomeranus vtterly diſlike and perſwaded the Miniſters of Marqueſſe Albertus dominions, to conforme rather then to ſuffer depriuation, which they yeelded vntounto for the moſt part, Conſil. Melancth. part. 2. fol. 91.

About an Altar: There is a hiſtory related of two great perſons, a Prince and an Earle, the one a Lutheran, the other a reformed Proteſtant. The Earle ſuppoſing that hee had more iuriſdiction in a certaine Church then the Prince had, commanded an Altar in the Church to bee pulled downe, and a table to be erected in the place: The Lutheran Prince vnderſtanding thereof, commanded the table to bee taken downe, and the Altar to bee againe ſet vp: The Earle repeated his practiſe the ſecond time, ſo did the Prince, at laſt the Earle (in a matter of that nature) let alone the Altar in the Church, & ſuffered the contentious Prince to hauehave his will, Colloqu. Mompelgart. fol. 424.

In the Low-countries, about breaking bread of Lords Supper: A certaine perſon was accuſed to the generall Synod of the Low-countries, gathered at Midleborough 1581. That hee would not hauehave the bread in Lords Supper to bee cut (as the manner is of thoſe Churches) but would hauehave it broken out into parts, out of the whole loaues, the which Ceremonie of breaking is doubleſſe the more agreeable to the inſtitution of Chriſt who brake the bread, Mat. 26. 26. and to the analogie it had to Chriſt his Paſſion whoſe body was broken, 1. Cor. 11. 24. howbeit, it was demanded of the Synod, what was to be done and practiſed in this caſe? It was anſwered by the Synod, that they muſt remaine in the receiued cuſtome of the Belgicke Churches, and if any ſhould doe againſt the cuſtome, they muſt be admoniſhed to deſiſt and leaue of that their practiſe: In actis Syn. inferioris Germ. partic. interrogat. numb. 76. apud Schul. Anachryſ. Hierar. l. 9.

p. 161In America: When Ʋillagagno tranſported the French Coloniae into Braſil, anno 1555. vnderunder direction and protection of Gasper Colignius, Admirall of France, there was a queſtion on occaſion moued touching the elements of the Lords Supper, whether in defect of Wine, and ſo of Bread of Wheate, they might adminiſter the Sacrament in the Bread of Rootes, and common drinke of the Americans, made alſo of Roots? Hereof there was difference in iudgement, ſome holding that it were better to abſtaine from the Lords Supper, then to adminiſter or receiue it, ſeeing Chriſt mentioneth expreſly, Mat. 26. 16. Marc. 14. 25. of the fruit of the Vine: Others on the other ſide thought that our Sauiour ſpeaking of Bread and Wine, mentioned them onelyonly as the common or vſual meat & drinke, not as determining thoſe very elements. To which cōtrouerſie, Ioan, Lerius, the reporter that was then preſent, inferreth, Albeit (quoth he) the greater part inclined to the latter iudgement yet becauſe there was not ſo great ſcarcitie of the things queſtioned, as then the controuerſie reſted to bee determined by further iudgement, yet this peaceable diſputation was cauſe of no kinde of diſcord among vsus, who by the grace of God remained moſt neerely knit in our affection, in as much as I could willingly deſire and wiſh, that there were ſo good agreement betweene all thoſe which doe profeſſe the true Chriſtian Religion, as there was at that time among vsus, Ioan. Lerius. Histor. nauigat. in Braſil. cap. 6. fol. 69.

In England: About Epiſcopal garments and Surpleſſe, Biſhop Hooper was a perſon exceeding peremptory both in preaching againſt the Ceremonies (as appeareth in his Sermons on Ionah, and on the Commandements, and in the obiections which hee made againſt them to Bucer, and P. Martyr as wee may perceiue in their anſwere to his Letter) as alſo in his flat refuſall of them; whereupon he was by the high Commiſſion conuented, and for his conſtant refuſal was impriſoned by them, where he remained for a ſeaſon. Howbeit, after his obiections were by Bucer and P. p. 162Martyr anſwered and by them, and by Caluin perſwaded to conforme, rather then to ſuffer depriuation: Hee conformed at the laſt, and wore the garments; and beeing appointed to preach before the King to trie his conformitie, he appeared in his Biſhoply Robes, namely, a white linnen Rotchet, a long ſcarlet Chimere, and a ſquare Cappe, Caluin. Epist. 120. fol. 217. Bucer. in Script. Anglican. fol. 705. de re Vestiar. Hooper. Pet. Martpr Loc. Com. ad fineminter Epiſtolas, fol. 1085.

About receiuing the Lords Supper with inconuenient Ceremonies, and perſons in differing doctrine: P. Martyr when hee came into England firſt, and the opinion of the corporall preſence of Chriſt in the Lords Supper was in force, and when the Miniſters albeit differing from him in iudgement, yet did not refuſe to admit him with open confeſſion of contrary iudgement, hee ioyned with them, and receiued the Lords Supper, Non obſtantibus illorum Ceremonijs ſibilicet ipſi molestis, notwithſtanding the Ceremonies, though very much troubling him. This counſell did P. Martyr giuegive to Vrſinus, and to other Chriſtians in Germany Ʋrſin. exercitat. lib 2. fol. 840.

About the Surpleſſe: M. Deering: While any law did bind me to weare Cap and Surpleſſe, I did weare both; ſince I neuer perſwaded any man to refuſe them &c. Regiſter, fol. 84.

M. Greenham: Albeit he affirme that he neither could, nor would weare the apparell, no, not ſo farre as he thought it might bee obſerued, Regiſter. fol. 87. yet from the obiection from authoritie, namely, that Bucer, Martyr, Bullinger, Beza, and Gualter, doe thinke rather that theſe inconueniences ſhould bee borne withall for a time, then the Flocke ſhould bee left to Woolues, ſure (ſaith hee) this reaſon is maine enough of it ſelfe, if it were not authorized with theſe learned and godly mens writings; And I pray to God the Father of Ieſus Chriſt, by his holy Spirit, to mooue others to bee as vnwilling to vſe it, (i.) to ſuffer their p. 163flockes by depriuation for the Ceremonies to bee left to Woolues, as I am vnwilling to anſwere it, and hauehave it practiſed on mee. I will not anſwere therefore this reaſon vntill there be no remedy, Regiſt. fol. 90.

The iudgement and practiſe of Biſhop Iewell, Doctor Whitaker and Doctor Fulke, is knowne this way.

Doctor Humfrey: Albeit it bee knowne that hee was a great aduerſary in his iudgement and long practiſe of refuſall of the Surpleſſe, as appeareth in a letter of his written of that thing; yet he did at the laſt conforme vntounto the Surpleſſe.

The like of late wee know did Doctor Reinolds, Doctor Sparkes, Doctor Chaloner, Doctor Ayray, Maſter Chaderton, Maſter Knewstub, though they ſtood out and teſtified their diſlike againſt ſundry of the Ceremonies eſtabliſhed, yet did they in caſe of depriuation yeeld vntounto them, and conforme, and ſtudiouſly perſwaded others in this caſe vntounto this practiſe: The like did many other very godly and learned men at diuers times and in diuers places. Thus we ſee their practiſe alſo.

Thirdly, there commeth to bee conſidered the reaſons mouing theſe perſons to this iudgement & practiſe, namely, wherefore they perſwade and practiſed conformitie to preuent depriuation or the Churches deſolation, viz.

Becauſe theſe ceremonies, ſeeing they are (adiaphora) indifferent, they make no man in themſelues godly or vngodly, Martyr amico loc. fol. 1085. And therefore albeit it were granted that theſe Ceremonies were not fit to bee vſed: Yet if other things which are preſcribed by Gods Word doe remaine entire, theſe things may well be thought neither impious nor pernicious per ſeſe aut ſua natura, of themſelues, or of their nwne nature, Idem Hoopero loc. f. 1088.

Becauſe, where the doctrine it ſelfe is ſound and pure, and the Ceremonies vſed to a ciuill honeſty and decency, the inconueniences are rather to be paſſed by in ſilence, then that by occaſion of them men ſhould proceed to contentions p. 164and more grieuous tumults, Caluin. Epist. 303. fol. 497.

Becauſe, albeit theſe things bee not to be approoued, yet, ſomtimes theſe indifferent things, howſoeuer offenſiue and burthenſome, are to be borne withall, ſo far forth (quoad aliter non liceat) as conueniently wee cannot doe otherwiſe, leſt if men contend about them more bitterly then they ought, it be both an hinderance to the progreſſe of the Goſpell, and the things which in their owne nature are indifferent, bee taught by our vehement contention to bee plainly wicked; which two points do bring with them moſt grieuous inconueniences, P. Martyr. Hooper. loc. com. f. 1086. And therefore theſe things which the Paſtors cannot change, they ſhould rather beare withall, then by forſaking the Church for that cauſe they ſhould giuegive occaſion for farre greater and more dangerous miſchifes vntounto Satan, who ſeeketh nothing elſe, Beza Epiſt. 12. fol. 99.

Becauſe it is better to vſe theſe Ceremonies (hee mentions a Surpleſſe) as a thing indifferent, then by the obſtinate refuſall thereof to raiſe vp Schiſme, and to interrupt the courſe of the doctrine of truth and to giuegive occaſion to Heretickes to poſſeſſe the Church, Polan. in Ezec. 44. fol. 807.

Becauſe ſuch is the example of Paul, who circumciſed Timothy for the Iewes, in that they all knew his father to bee a Graecian, Act. 16. 3. Idem Ibid.

Becauſe wee muſt giuegive place vntounto the ſway of the times wherein wee liue, ſo farre forth as may ſtand with keeping faith and a good conſcience, Act. 28. 11. & 19. 10. 26. & 15. 28. 29. Maiſter Perkins caſes of Conſc. lib. 3. cap. 2. fol. 483.

Becauſe, if we cannot doe the good that moſt we deſire, in ſuch exquiſite manner as wee would, wee muſt content our ſelues with the meane, and in things which are good and to bee done, it is the ſafeſt courſe to ſatiſfie our ſelues in doing the leſſe, leſt in ventring to doe the more, which cannot be, we grow to the extreamity, and ſo faile to offend in our action, Eccleſ. 7. 16. read the proofes, Perkins caſes p. 165of Conſc. lib. 3. cap. 2. fol. 484. 485. 486.

Becauſe it may bee thought expedient, that theſe things for a time be borne withall; for it may perhaps produce this effect, that theſe contentions may be auoided, by the which contentions there is great perill, leſt greater and farre more important benefites bee hindred; and leſt the mindes of men be at the firſt beginning turned from the Goſpel, as we ſee it come to paſſe, Martyr. ibid. fol. 1085.

Becauſe, if the parity of Doctrine and of Faith doe remaine entire, the Paſtors may openly teach and preſſe vntounto their flocks ſuch doctrine as may ſerue to take away offences ariſing by the vſe of theſe Ceremonies, Beza Epiſt. 12. fol. 99.

Becauſe, if wee preach and teach indifferent things to bee impious, we ſhall ſo alienate mens mindes from vsus, that they will no longer endure to bee attentiue and patient hearers of ſound doctrine, and of neceſſary inſtructions, P. Martyr ib. fol. 1086. Hoopero.

Becauſe it is farre better to contend about greater matters, in which the euidence of trueth may conuince the Papiſts and other our aduerſaries, then to wrangle or braule about a Surpleſſe or the like thing, where wiſe men cry out vponupon vsus, that with peeuiſh way wardneſſe and obſtinacy we croſſe our gouerners, and nouriſh diſſentions, Melancth. concil. part. 2. fol. 91.

Becauſe the ſinew and principall members of Antichriſt ſhould firſt of all bee ſtudiouſly oppugned [ſuch as an vnlearned Miniſtry, ſlackned diſcipline, &c.] The which things, if all of vsus on either ſide did vniformely with vnited force and indeuours ſet vponupon, the abuſes of Surpleſſes and of all other inconuenient things would eaſily be aboliſhed, and all the markes and ſhadowes of Antichriſt would vaniſh: Elſevaine will bee the labour of driuing or expelling Antichriſts reliques and ſhadowes from the Church, Bucer ſcript. Anglican. Hoopro fol. 706. For if we did ſuffer the Goſpel firſt of all to be ſpread abroad to take deepe rooting, p. 166perhaps men would better and more eaſily bee perſwaded that they might remooue theſe externall inconuenient ſhewes and Ceremonies, like as a ſicke man luſting after ſome ſmall trifling meates, which, after hee is well againe, doeth voluntarily renounce as vnfit. Wherefore let England bee firſt diligently inſtructed, and confirmed in the chiefe and moſt neceſſary perils of Religion, and ſo afterwards in my iudgement the Church ſhall not much be offended to hauehave theſe things ſomewhat ſuperfluous to be remooued, P. Martyr loc. fol. 1086. Hoopero.

Becauſe if ſome things in their nature indifferent be impoſed it is not meete too egerly to contend about ſuch matters; eſpecially when as we ſee thoſe Magiſtrates by whom the light of the Goſpel is much furthered in England, and by whoſe authority it may much more be furthered, to oppoſe themſelues againſt vsus. Peter Martyr ibid. fol. 1085. Hoopero.

Becauſe, whereas the Miniſters are willing to reforme abuſes, & the Magiſtrate is peremptory and reſolute, not to reforme for ſome reaſons of policy, the Miniſter in that caſe is not to leaue his miniſtery, or to trouble the Church, intempeſtiuis clamoribus, or to conteſt or contend with the magiſtrate: The reaſon is, becauſe this courſe tendeth to the ouerthrow of the Church, and is oppoſite to that charity which he oweth vntounto Chriſt & to his church, out of which ground and rule he ought to preach, and to hold on in the courſe of his miniſtery. Hee ought indeede to teach publikely and priuately (as the matter requireth) what is to be done, but this he muſt performe without ſedition and troubling of the Church; but peaceably and diſcreetly. Charity will informe the Paſtor, if he louelove the Church indeede, how hee ought in theſe caſes to behaue himſelfe, Zanch. in Philip. 1. fol. 45. Looke alſo, Muſculus loc. part. 2. de tradit. §. 6. fol. 31.

Becauſe the Apoſtles in this caſe being guided by the rule of louelove, did at the inſtant requeſt of the Iewes, inioyne the p. 167Brethren, and the Churches which were gathered out of Gentiliſme, to abſtaine from ſtrangled meate and bloud; and choſe rather to burthen them for a ſeaſon with the obſeruation of theſe things which ſauoured of Iewiſh ſuperſtition. Alſo by the ſame rule of louelove was Paul led whenas he came into the Temple with thoſe foure Iewes which had a vow vponupon them, and purified himſelfe with them. Yet theſe Rites of thoſe times were (Stipulae cum fundamento Chriſto non cōgruentes) Stubble not agreeing with Chriſt the foundation: But the edification of the Church required this thing. Wherefore many things are to be tolerated by the Miniſters, that the peace of Churches be not rent, and that Schiſmes may bee auoyded, ſo that they bee not ſuch things, or doctrines which doe fight with the foundation and doe heaue at it, Zanch. ibid.

Becauſe if Paſtors cannot reforme all things which need amendment, according to their deſire, they muſt not therefore caſt away their Miniſtry, or trouble the whole Church with an vnvſuall aſperity. The reaſon: Becauſe all godly ground and forme of Eccleſiaſticall diſcipline ought euer to hauehave reſpect and hauehave reference to the vnitie of the ſpirit in the bond of peace; which the Apoſtle commanded to bee kept by ſeruing one another; and which rule not being kept, the medicine of diſcipline groweth to be ſuperfluous, and pernicious. It is confeſſed, that Paſtors ought with their vttermoſt endeuours to labour, that there remaine no corruption in the Church: but they muſt vſe that wiſdome which our Sauiour preſcribeth, leſt by plucking vp the tares, they hurt the good corne. Wherefore the precept of the Apoſtle of ſeparating the euill, (or of mending corruption) muſt by no meanes be neglected, cum ſine periculo violandae pacis fieri potest, when it may bee done without the danger of violation of the Churches peace: for elſe hee would not hauehave it done. Caluin. inſtit. 4. 12. §. 11. 13.

Becauſe the charge of preaching the word of God is an abſolute commandement of the Lord; and it is ſo neceſſary p. 168for him that is called thereunto, that a woe hangeth on his head if he doe not preach it: It ought not to be laid aſide for a ſimple incōuenience, or vncomlineſſe of a thing, which in its owne nature is indifferent; ſuch as the Surpleſſe is, whereof he ſpeaketh, or the like Ceremonies, Maſter Cartwright in the reſt of the 2. reply, fol. 262. 263.

Becauſe when two commandements of the morall Law are oppoſite in reſpect of vsus, ſo as we cannot doe them both at the ſame time; then the leſſer commandement (as auoyding inconuenient Ceremonies) giues place to the greater, (ſuch as preaching of the Word) and doeth not binde for that inſtant, Maſter Perkins in his Treatiſe of conſcience, cap. 2. fol. 14. 15.

Becauſe it is euident that Ieſus Chriſt our Lord did onelyonly preſcribe the ſubſtance of the Miniſtry both of the Word and Sacraments in his owne words; and all other things which appertaine to the decent and profitable adminiſtration of his myſteries he hath left and admitted to be ordered by his Church: Hence wee celebrate the Lords Supper, neither in the euening, neither in a priuate houſe, neither leaning, neither yet with men onelyonly. Now who would condemne the Church, if by a pure and holy conſent of the members thereof, it ſhould bee the cuſtome that eueryevery communicant (as in the Primitiue Church the new baptiſed did) ſhould weare a white garment? Bucer. Script. Anglican. fol. 708. Hoopero. ſo alſo hee argueth in his Epiſtle to Io. Alaſco: Chriſt no where hath forbidden ſuch a vſe of them, as we hauehave expounded, namely of Ceremonies ſignificatiue ordained by the Church, not ſuperſtitiouſly, but purely vſed. This argument alſo hath Zanch. de redempt. cap. 16. fol. 445. a. There is a great queſtion (ſaith hee) in theſe our dayes about Miniſteriall garments: ſurely we read not that Chriſt and his Apoſtles did appoint any thing of this matter; neither that they changed their garments, either when they baptiſed, or when they adminiſterd the Lords Supper, but neither did they forbid, that men might not take other p. 169garments. Wherefore it is (liberum perſe) a matter free in it ſelfe to vſe or not to vſe other garments in the adminiſtration of the Sacraments.

Becauſe, if true Chriſtians, hauing the pure doctrine of Chriſt & diſcipline in their Churches, ſhould enioine ſome ſpeciall garment though abuſed by the Papiſts, for the commendation of the Miniſtery to the ſimple people, there is no Scripture forbidding a man to leaue ſuch Chriſtians to their iudgement: But there are ſundry Scriptures clearely teaching a man why he ſhould leaue them to this their practiſe, as Rom. 14. 1. Cor. 8. and 9. and many other places, namely, whereſoeuer we are taught of the libertie and good vſe of the creatures, not of meates onelyonly, but of all creatures elſe. Hee giueth inſtance of a white garment vſed on the Baptized or Communicants of the Lords Supper, Bucer. Script. Anglican. fol. 708. Hoopero.

Becauſe they which defend theſe things, may pretend ſome honeſt and iuſt ſignification, not ſtrange from the Scriptures: As, [touching the Surpleſſe] the Miniſters of the Church are Angels, Mal. 3. 1. and the Angels alwayes for the moſt part appeared as apparelled in White garments, Pet. Martyr. loc. fol. 1085. Hoopero. Bucer will hauehave them ſignifie (Caelestē puritatem & candorē, omnium que virtutū ornatū) heauenly puritie and ſinceritie, and the ornament of all vertues, Script. Angl. fol. 682. ſo alſo fol. 707. 709. Againe, What ſhould let, but that the Churches may vſe this white Veſture, or more Veſtures, to moniſh vsus preciſely of that diuine benefit, of the light and dignitie of the heauenly doctrine, which he giueth vsus by the holy Miniſtery, and by the which the Miniſters themſelues may bee the more mindful of their office &c. Bucer in his Epiſtle to Io. Alaſco, at the end of the examination. This reaſon alſo hath Zanch. Albeit a garment be a free thing, ſaith he, and numbred vp among matters indifferent; yet for ſignification, a linnen garment were more decent then a woollen for a Miniſter to vſe in adminiſtring the Sacramēts, for that it is the Impreſſe, p. 170or type of innocencie and holineſſe; Hence in the Apocalyps white garments are giuen to the Saints, Zanch. de redempt. cap. 16. fol. 445. a.

Becauſe theſe Ceremonies are ancient, and hauehave ſome good vſe, it was an old cuſtome in the Church, that ſuch as adminiſtred the Sacraments, ſhould weare a white linen garment, Zanch. ibid. ex Hieron. cont. Pelag. li. 1. The ſigne of the Croſſe is vetustiſſima, very ancient, Beza Epi. 8. fol. 75. There was therfore ſome vſe therof, thogh ſince it hath bin horribly abuſed, and there be ſmall profit thereof, Bez. Ep. 12. fol. 99. Kneeling at the Communiō hath a ſhew indeed of godly & Chriſtian reuerence, and therefore might heretofore hauehave been vſed (cum fructu) with ſome profit, ibid. fol. 100.

Becauſe if we proceed to diſſwade from theſe indifferent things, as from pernicious and euill things, we ſhall thereby condemne very many Churches, not diſagreeing from the Goſpel; and ſhall taxe too bitterly innumerable Churches, which hauehave euer, and are of old celebrated, as moſt commendable and approued, P. Mart. loc. fol. 1086. Hoopero. If agreemēt in doctrine might be procured between the Saxon or Lutheran Churches and ours, there would be no ſeparation made for Surpleſſes, or Ceremonies of the like nature, ib fol. 1127. Bucer hath alſo this reaſon; If there be no liberty granted to the Churches, of ordeining Ceremonies about the Lords Supper, whereof they hauehave not the expreſſe commandement of Chriſt; By this meanes will all Churches be condemned (impiae audaciae) of impious boldneſſe: For all Churches doe obſerue in the Supper of the Lord, ſuch a time, place, and habit or ſite of body, and beſides doe admit womē to the Cōmunion; of all which things they hauehave not onelyonly no commandement of the Lord, but they hauehave alſo his contrary example; For our Lord did celebrate his Supper at night not in the morning; in a priuate houſe, not in a publike; leaning with his Apoſtles and after the receiuing of the Paſcall lambe notwithſtanding: Alſo, hee admitted not the women, among whom he had ſundry his moſt holy p. 171Diſciples, Bucer. Scrip. Anglic. fol. 807. 809. To this reaſon Pet. Martyr moueth an obiection. The Church authority preſent or paſt, ought not to be of that force, that the truth of Gods Word be thereby wronged; which (albeit the world do fall about our eares in peeces) ought to be kept inviolable. It is true (ſed propter foreign) but for things indifrent, I am reſolute, that by no meanes we may admit that either Churches ſhould be condemned, or that wee ſhould leſſe reuerently or honeſtly ſpeake of them, Ibid. fol. 1086.

Becauſe we muſt take heed, leſt theſe things which be of leſſe importance through our contention, may be the meanes or occaſions that thoſe things which ſhould be eſteemed of greater force and valew, either cannot at all be brought vntounto the Church, or if they be once brought in they cannot be eſtabliſhed with continuance, Peter Martyr ibid. 1086.

Becauſe we muſt take heed of Satans accuſtomed ſleights, whereby he leadeth vsus away from the care of neceſſary things, to the immoderate carefulneſſe of thoſe things which may well be let paſſe, and from ſearching out of the true doctrine of Chriſt, to induce vsus to thoſe things wherein few can conſent alike: and finally, by the which he kindleth in diuers men a zeale to purge thoſe things which are without vsus, thereby to neglect our inward deformities, Bucer. Epist. ad Ioan. Alaſco. After at the ende of that Epiſtle, This coulorable craft of Satan muſt be taken heed of, by which often he effecteth this, that wee reckon thoſe things ſinnes which are no ſins, and thoſe that bee ſinnes indeede, wee ſeeme not to regard them in our ſelues, or elſe againſt thoſe ſinnes which our conſciences define to bee ſinnes indeede, we vſe no ſuch ſeuerity as we ought.

Becauſe we ſhould in this Realme take moſt godly heedfulneſſe that wee further not vnawares the Diuels intents, who throweth in among vsus ſundry queſtions and controuerſies, leaſt wee ſhould take in hand to handle the queſtion of ſetting forward the doctrine of the Goſpel, and reſtoring p. 172of diſcipline, and thereby to remoue all drones from Eccleſiaſticall Miniſteries, Bucer. in Ep. Io. Alaſcco.

Becauſe things in themſelues otherwiſe indifferent, doe after a ſort change or alter their nature, when as by any command of lawfull authority, they be either commanded or forbidden: becauſe they may not be omitted contrary to a iuſt commandement, if they bee commanded, neither may they be done againſt a prohibition if they be forbidden, as appeareth by the Law Ceremoniall, Bez. Epiſt. 24. fol. 143.

Becauſe there is ſome burthenſome ſeruitude in eueryevery Church, in ſome more milde, in others more hard and the ſorrowes of ſuch ſeruitude and burthens ſhould be comforted by the Brethren, and not increaſed by their condemnation ſo long as the foundation is retained, Melancht. conſil. part. 2. fol. 92.

Becauſe concord and mutuall louelove muſt by Brethren be defended, leſt inuocation in themſelues, or in the people be interrupted, and leſt lamentable and pernicious doubts be produced from queſtions not neceſſary, as of old time it did about Eaſter; they who hauehave their Chriſtian libertie leſſe reſtrained ſhould giuegive God thankes and vſe the ſame godly, for the illuſtration of doctrine, & not for that cauſe to ſlacken the raines of diſcipline the more: others in more burthen ſome ſeruitude ſhould acknowledge themſelues to be corrected of God, and let them not ſuffer the true worſhip of God to be corrupted, as it is written, All this hath come vponupon vsus, yet hauehave we not forgotten thee, Melancht. conſil part 2. fol. 92. And ſo much of the reaſons mouing theſe perſons to this iudgement and practice of admitting rather inconuenient ceremonies then to ſuffer depriuation, or the ouerthrow of the Church.

Fourthly and laſtly, wee will obſerue ſuch obiections, as hauehave beene made againſt this doctrine and practice, which hauehave by them the ſaid excellent perſons and pillars of Chriſt his Church beene anſwered and reſolued.

p. 173Obiect. Why hauehave yee not aboliſhed theſe Ceremonies and corruptions out of your Churches all at once?

Anſw. 1 Melancht. As it is with a Pilote of a ſhip, which muſt take that way, and runne ſuch a courſe, not which he knoweth to bee moſt right, but which the windes doe permit vntounto him: ſo we when we could by no meanes hinder the greater, it was ſufficient to admit the leſſer, Conſil. part. 1. fol. 76.

2 Zanchius: I approue not their intemperancy, which doe nothing vnleſſe it bee tumultuouſly, and which hauehave more minde to teare and rend through all things, then diſcreetly and aduiſedly to vnrippe them, Compend. loc. 14. de Scandalo. fol. 6. 15. taken out of Caluin. Inſtitut. 3. 19. 13.

3 Illyricus: That Medicall and politicall rule heere taketh very good place, [omnis mutatio periculoſa] That all kindes of alterations are not without ſome perill: For alteration of Ceremonies cannot eaſily bee made without offence vntounto the weake, nor without an imputation or aſperſion of leuity, or of ambition with the more wiſe, Clau. ſcript. part. 1. fol. 33. verbo adiaph.

4 Zepperus de Sacramentis cap. 13. fol. 324. 325. 326. 228.

1 The furious clamors and perſecutions of the Papiſts did not permit this reformation of Ceremonies at the firſt: which were ſo violent and bloody, that it gaue ſmall or no leiſure to the teachers and lights of the Church, neither was it ſafe for them to bend their care or cogitations this way.

2 The people were ſo drowned in the deepe darkeneſſe and Idolatry of the Papacy, that the amendment of Ceremonies, and of externall worſhip could not in thoſe beginnings be vndertaken. It was neceſſary to vſe doctrine, and to inſtruct the people of ſundry and horrible errors, Idolatry, Superſtitions, and abuſes, which the whole Papacie and Popiſh ceremonies hauehave in their departure, that ſo all thoſe ougly things might firſt bee remooued out of their mindes, before they were remoued from their ſight. That p. 174which is not the work of one yere, but a task of long ſeaſon: For as Ceremonies which are viſible things, and apprehended by the eyes, doe more affect and mooue then the inuiſible doctrine; So the people did cloſely ſticke to their accuſtomed Ceremonies, and oppoſed themſelues vehemently againſt the reformation of them: Euen as wee ſee at this day to come to paſſe, when as yet ſound doctrine hath preuailed and flouriſhed for aboue theſe 80. yeeres.

3. The Church in Popery was nothing elſe but a ſicke body: In which from the ſole of the foote, to the crowne of the head, there was nothing ſound and intire: Wherefore at the firſt beginning of reformation, that whole chaos and abomination of error, and of Popiſh Idolatry could not ſuddenly be perceiued, but vſe and experience did daily manifeſt and teach eueryevery day more, then at the firſt. ‖

Obiect. Biſhop Hooper:] Your ceremonies are humane inuentions, and mans Traditions about Gods worſhip, and are ſpoken againſt, Matt. 15. Col. 2.

Anſw. P. Martyr:] 1 All humane inuentions about Gods ſeruice are not preſently to bee condemned: for it was an humane inuention, that we ſhould rather receiue the Lords Supper in the Morning, then after dinner. So it was an humane inuention, that the price of the things ſold in the Primitiue Church, ſhould be laid at the Apoſtles feete.

2 I confeſſe with you, that theſe ceremonies (ſuch as the Surpleſſe) are humane inuentions, and of themſelues they doe not edifie: Howbeit, to ſome it may bee thought expedient that they be borne with for a ſeaſon: for it may bring this to paſſe, that by theſe contentions there is great danger, leſt greater good fruit, and more rich commoditie will be hindred, and that the minds of men be ſuddenly turned from the Goſpel; the experience whereof, we hauehave ſeen heretofore, Loc. com. inter Epiſtolas Hoopero. fol. 1087.

Bucer:] 1 Whatſoeuer Scripture you alleadge againſt humane Traditions, that altogether you know to be vnderſtood only of thoſe things, whereby men wil by theſe things p. 145offer worſhip vntounto God, and that alſo by letting paſſe the Commandements of God.

2 To the place of Matt. 15. Euen you B b. Hooper had rather receiue your meate with your hands waſhed, then with your hands vnwaſhed, (as the Phariſes did.) To Col. 2. Whatſoeuer is ſpoken there of beggerly and weake elements appertaineth to ſuperſtition: by which ſuperſtition theſe things were exacted as matters neceſſary or profitable to ſaluation, euen after Chriſt was reuealed: And whatſoeuer abuſe there bee of theſe garments, (or the like Ceremonies) that ſticketh not on the garments, but in impure mindes.

Obiect. Wee muſt adde nothing to Gods word, Deut. 12. Reue. 12. Pro. 30.

Anſw. No parts of worſhip to the worſhip of God.

1. Beza: There is a twofold opinion concerning the reformation of Churches, ſome hold that nothing at all ſhould be added to Apoſtolicall ſimplicitie, and by conſequence are of minde, that whatſoeuer the Apoſtles did, they thinke they are to doe it, but whatſoeuer the Church after the Apoſtles did adde to the firſt rites, they thinke them fit euen all at once to be aboliſhed: There are others on the other ſide, which hold that certaine ancient rites (beſides the Apoſtolicall ordinances) are to bee retained, partly as profitable and neceſſary: partly alſo albeit not neceſſary, yet to be tolerated for concord ſakes. For mine owne part I doubt not, but the Apoſtolicall doctrine to bee moſt abſolutely perfect without all exception, to the which it is not lawfull to adde, or to detract any thing, howbeit, touching Ceremonies my iudgement is otherwiſe. For firſt, it is certaine that euen the Apoſtles themſelues, could not determinately ſet downe, what they iudged to bee expedient for the Churches in their firſt beginning: and therefore neceſſarily they proceeded by little and little, as the inſtitution of Deacons doeth make euident, in as much as they ſuffered, for a ſeaſon many Iewiſh Ceremonies, as appeareth in the p. 176ſtory of their acts: againe, to whom can it b…e doubtfull, that the Apoſtles had exceeding regard vntounto their times, places, and perſons in externall rites. In as much as it is not profitable, that the ſame rites were obſerued eueryevery where, as appeareth in that excellent Epiſtle of Irenaeus to Victor; beſides neceſſity it ſelfe aboliſhed certaine of their ordinances, as their common feaſts of louelove. Wherefore whatſoeuer was performed by the Apoſtles in rites and Ceremonies, I doe not iudge that preſently, neither yet without ſome exception, to bee followed as a rule. And indeede I wonder not that thoſe ancient Fathers, hauing reſpect vntounto their owne times, did take away ſome things, ſome things adde, and ſome what alter. OnelyOnly herein (with their good leaue bee it ſpoken) they ſeeme to mee to hauehave often failed, that they neither held any meaſure in their rites, neither had that due regard to Chriſtian ſimplicitie and puritie, as was meete, Epist. 8. fol. 70. 71.

2. Bucer: If there be no liberty granted to the Churches, of ordaining Ceremonies about the Lords Supper, whereof they hauehave not the expreſſe commandement of Chriſt, by this meanes will all Churches be condemned (impiae audaciae) of moſt impious boldneſſe. For all Churches doe obſerue in the Supper of the Lord, ſuch a time, place, and habit, or ſite of body; and beſides doe admit women to the Communion, of all which things they hauehave not onelyonly no commandement, but they hauehave alſo his contrary example: for our Lord did celebrate his Supper at night, not in the morning in a priuate houſe, not in a publike, leaning on his ſide, (and after the receiuing of the Paſchall lambe) not ſtanding; alſo hee admitted not the women, ſundry of whom hee had for his moſt holy diſciples, Bucer. Script. Anglican. fol. 708. 789.

3. Caluin: Foraſmuch as our Lord hath both faithfully comprehended, & cleerely declared in the holy Scriptures, the whole ſumme of true righteouſneſſe, and all the partes of his worſhip, and whatſoeuer was needefull to ſaluation p. 177therefore [in his ſolus magiſter audiendus eſt] in theſe things the Maſter, Chriſt, is onelyonly to bee hearkened vntounto: Howbeit, becauſe he would not particularly preſcribe what wee ought to follow or practiſe [in externâ diſciplinâ & ceremonijs] in externall diſcipline and ceremonies: For that hee foreſaw that theſe things did depend vponupon the condition of the times, neither did he iudge one forme to be agreeing to all ages: Therefore here wee are to hauehave recourſe vntounto the generall rules which he hath left and giuen, that whatſoeuer the neceſſitie of the Church for matter of order and decencie ſhall require, may bee determined by theſe rules, Inſtit. 4. 10. 30.

4. Zanchius: If any thing bee altered or added, which is not commanded of God being not eſſentiall, but accidentall, and not as neceſſary, but as indifferent, appertaining to decencie, or to order, or to edification; wee cannot hence conclude, that any thing is altered of the appointed worſhip, or that there is another worſhip erected. As for example, Chriſt performed his Supper at night. The Apoſtles were wont to performe it alſo in the morning, and the Church followed afterwards this time: Should a man hereupon ſay, that any thing is derogated from the Supper of the Lord? ſurely no; becauſe Chriſt commanded not the ſame to be celebrated in the night, as himſelfe obſerued it, but onelyonly (hoc facite) that we ſhould doe that (for the matter or ſubſtance) which he did, but not at that time wherin he did it. Alſo to that the Primitiue Church (as appeareth in Iustinus Martyr) did mingle Water with the Wine in the Lords Supper; it is not a ſufficient ground to ſay they altered or changed the inſtitution of the Lords Supper, and that for two reaſons; One, becauſe it may be that the Wine which Chriſt Ieſus gaue to his Diſciples was mingled with water, ſeeing the Apoſtles doe not report the contrary and it is probable, that the Primitiue Church might receiue this from the Apoſtles: Another reaſon is, becauſe the Primitiue church did not adde water as a matter altogether neceſſary, p. 178and ſo as appertaining to the ſubſtance of the Lords Supper, but only to ſignifie a myſtery; but if any did commend it as neceſſary, they did vndoubtedly depraue the Lords Supper. But they much more, who vſed onelyonly water in the Lords Supper, as the Aquarij did, againſt whom Cyprian did write: for it is euident, that Chriſt our Sauiour vſed wine, and commaunded that wee alſo ſhould do the like. To this adde, in that the ancient Biſhops in the celebration of the Lords Supper, did put on another garment, then that they vſually did weare, appertaineth nothing to the alteration of the Lords Supper: For Chriſt commanded not that wee ſhould celebrate his Supper with our vſuall garments, as hee did, but onelyonly that wee ſhould doe that which he did himſelfe. The like may bee affirmed of ſundry other things, as well in Baptiſme, as in the Supper of the Lord. The ſumme of all is this: Such things as are added, but yet as matters indifferent, for order, for decency, and to edification; ſuch matters do not change the ſubſtance of the Sacraments, and therefore alter not the worſhip. But ſuch things as are taken from the inſtitution of Chriſt, or els are added as neceſſary, and appertaining to the ſubſtance, thoſe things do corrupt the inſtitution of the Lord, and ſo doe eſtabliſh another kind of worſhip. To this kind of addition appertain the places of forbidding to adde to Gods word, Deut. 4. 1, 2. Note that which hee there ſaith, Yee ſhall not adde to the Word which I commaund you: The Word of the Lord is neceſſary, it tyeth the conſcience, and deliuereth the ſubſtance of the Worſhip, and hath nothing adiaphorall or indifferent therein: wherefore to adde vntounto the Word, is to ordaine or appoint in Gods worſhip ſome thing as neceſſary, and as appertaining to the eſſence or worſhip of God, and which doth ſo binde mens conſciences, euen as the Word of God it ſelfe; wherefore he addeth not vntounto the Word of God, which by the conſent of the Church ordaineth any thing, not as neceſſary, but as indifferent, and free for order onelyonly, or for decencie, and vntounto edification, not binding the p. 179conſcience of any by ſuch an ordinance, Zanch. de redempt. cap. 19. fol. 447.

Obiect. Biſhop Hooper:] Whatſoeuer is not of faith is ſinne, Rom. 14. 23.

Anſw. P. Martyr:] This I acknowledge with you to be moſt true, hobeit that we may hauehave a quiet conſcience in our actions, that chiefly ſeemeth to conduce which is written by the Apoſtle vntounto Titus, All things are cleane vntounto the cleane, And vntounto Timothy, EueryEvery creature of God is good: But it is not neceſſarily required, that we hauehave an expreſſe mention of eueryevery particular and ſingular thing which we vſe to doe: This is ſufficient in generall, to know by faith that indifferent things cannot defile thoſe which vſe them with a ſincere minde and conſcience, Loc. com. inter Epist. fol. 1088. Hooper.

Obiect. Bb. Hooper:] Theſe Ceremonies are Aaronicall and Iewiſh, an imitation of the Aaronicall Prieſthood, and therefore ought to be eſchewed of all that louelove Chriſt.

Anſw. Bucer:] 1. Though I admit your antecedent, yet your concluſion followeth not, for to imitate Aarons Ceremonies is not of it ſelfe vicious: but onelyonly when men vſe them as neceſſary to ſaluation, or to ſignifie that Chriſt is yet for to come to take fleſh vponupon him, Epist. ad Ioan. Alaſco. Nothing can truely be ſaid to appertaine to the Prieſthood of Aaron ſo farre forth as it is aboliſhed, but that which is vſed with ſuch like ſuperſtition as if it were now (after Chriſt reuealed) needfull to ſaluation, or profitable of it ſelfe, or whereby ſome occaſion is giuen to a man to aſſume or to retaine this ſuperſtition with himſelfe, or of troubling the peace and quiet of Brethren, Idem Script. Anglican. fol. 707. Hoopero.

2 For a Rite or Ceremony to be Aaronicall, adheareth or ſticketh not to any of the creatures of God in no garment, in no figure, in no colour, in no worke of God: But in the minde and profeſſion of ſuch as abuſe the good creatures of God to impious ſignification, idem ibid.

p. 1803 If by no meanes it be lawfull to vſe thoſe things which were of Aarons Prieſthood or of the Gentiles; Then it is not lawfull for vsus to hauehave Churches nor holy-dayes: For there is no expreſſe commaundement by word in the holy Scriptures of theſe things. It is gathered notwithſtanding from the example of the old people, that they are profitable for vsus to the increaſe of godlineſſe, which thing alſo experience proueth, Idem ad Ioan. Alaſco.

Petre Martyr: In the Law or Prieſthood of Aaron there were 1. Sacraments, whereby it pleaſed God to confirme and ſeale the promiſes of Chriſt to come, all which I know are aboliſhed & that we muſt beleeue that Chriſt is alreadie giuen, not to be giuen: And ſeeing other ſeales of Gods promiſes are vnderunder the Goſpell giuen by our Lord himſelfe, namely, Bread and Wine; we ought not to recall the antiquated ſignes. 2 Howbeit, there were ſome actions in the Law of that nature, that properly they may not be ſaid to be Sacraments: For they made to decency, to order and ſome benefit▪ which I doe iudge may be recalled and retained as agreeable to the light of nature, and furthering ſome profit to our ſelues: Who knoweth not that the Apoſtles for the peace and more comfortable conuerſing of beleeuers, did command the Gentiles that they ſhould abſtaine from bloud and ſtrangled? Thoſe things were out of queſtion Aaronicall, if you will comprehend all things generally which were in the Law. Further, no man is ignorant that Tythes are inioyned in innumerable places for the maintenance of Miniſters: beſides▪ if I might more diligently ſearch and conſider, as the time now will not permit me, I could finde out not a few things which our Church hath borrowed out of the law of Moſes, & that from the firſt beginning of the Church: And that I may not omit this one thing wee hauehave the feſtiuall dayes in memoriall of our Lord, Reſurrection, Natiuitie, Pentecoſt, and death of Chriſt; ſhall all theſe things bee aboliſhed becauſe they bee ſhadowes of the olde Law? By theſe things I ſuppoſe p. 181you ſee (B b. Hooper) that all things appertaining to the Aaronicall Prieſthood are not ſo aboliſhed, as that nothing thereof either may be retained, or vſed by vsus. Martyr. loc. inter Epiſt. Hoopero. fol. 1087.

Obiect. B b. Hooper:] Theſe Ceremonies were of Antichriſts inuention.

Anſw. Bucer:] The vſe of ſuch garments (as the Surpleſſe, were vſed Godly by the holy Fathers, before the Pope became to be the Romiſh Antichriſt, Script. Anglic. fol. 682. Cranmero.

Martyr: I cannot eaſily grant that the diuerſity of garments had their originall from the Pope, ſeeing we reade in the Eccleſiaſticall Hiſtory, that Iohn the Euangeliſt ware Petalum, ſeu Lamina Pontificalis, a kinde of garment proper to a Miniſter or B b. and Pontius the Deacon witneſſeth of Cyprian the Martyr, that when as he was to be beheaded, he gaue his garment (named Birrus) to the executioners: His garment called Dalmatica hee gaue to the Deacons, and ſtood in his linnen garments. And Chriſtians when they were conuerted vntounto Chriſt, did as the Fathers witneſſe, change their garment, and for a gowne did put on a cloake: For the which when they were mocked of the Heathen, Tertullian wrote a moſt learned booke (de Pallio) of the cloake. Beſides, Chryſostome maketh mention of the white garment of the Miniſters of the Church; Neither doe I thinke that you (B b. Hooper) are ignorant, that there was giuen a Whitegarment vntounto thoſe that were admitted vntounto the Church by Baptiſme. Wherefore it is cleere that there were ſome differences of veſtures before the tyranny of the Pope was in force. But admitte theſe things to The like anſwere and allegations doe Bullenger & Gualt. giuegive to the ſam obiection: Looke Whitgifts defence. fol. 268.be the Popes inuentions, I cannot perſwade my ſelfe, that the impiety of the Papacy is ſo great that whatſoeuer it toucheth, it maketh ſo polluted and defiled, as that the vſe of ſuch things may not be granted to good and Godly perſons. Martyr. Hoopero fol. 1087. Looke more for anſwere hereto, in the anſwere to the next obiection.

p. 182Obiect. Bb. Hooper:] Theſe things abuſed by Antichriſt, are ſo defiled, that they may not be permitted to any Church howſoeuer, knowing and worſhipping Chriſt, and acquainted with her liberty of all things.

Anſw. Bucer:] Surely I make great conſcience to ſay thus much: For 1. I ſee no Scripture whereby I may defend it. 2. The Scripture doth eueryevery where preach, that eueryevery creature of God is good vntounto the good; that is, to ſuch as doe truely beleeue in Chriſt, and doe godly vſe his creatures: And that this creature of God is good, not only in naturall effects, as bread is good in the effects of feeding and ſtrengthening our bodies, and wine in the effects of drinking and heating vsus, but alſo it is good in diuers ſignifications and admonitions: For godly men doe ſtirre vp and nouriſh in themſelues the remembrance and conſideration of many of Gods benefits from eueryevery thing which is a creature of God. From hence are thoſe things in the Pſalmes, and in the Songs of the Saints concerning the praiſe and celebration of Gods Name, to the which all the works of God doe inuite them. 3. What Scripture teacheth, that there is ſuch power giuen to the Deuill, or to euill men, that by their abuſe they can make any creature of God which is good in it ſelfe, and good alſo in ſignification and admonition, to be in it ſelfe euill and impious? 4. Nothing can be ſaid to be a rite of Antichriſtianiſme, but ſuch whereby ſome profeſſion of, and communication with Antichriſt is exerciſed, or whereby ſuch profeſſion and communion is furthered, Script. Anglic. fol. 707. Hoopero.

Peter Martyr] By this which you alleadge I ſee not how it may be firmely concluded, that we may vſe nothing which is vſually done in Popery, ſurely wee muſt beware, leſt wee oppreſſe the Church of Chriſt, with too much ſeruitude or bondage, that namely it hauehave liberty to vſe nothing which appertaineth to the Pope. Surely our anceſtors (in the Primitiue times) tooke the Idoll Temples, and conuerted them into ſacred houſes, in the which Chriſt may bee worſhipped: p. 183and the reuenewes which were conſecrated to the Gods of the heathen, to ſtage playes and Veſtall Nunnes, they tranſlated for the maintenance of the Miniſters of the Church, when as theſe things did not only ſerue Antichriſt, but euen the diuell. Further the verſes of Poets, which were conſecrated to the Muſes, and to diuers of their Gods, or vſed in Plaies acted on ſtages to appeaſe their Gods (forſooth) the Eccleſiaſticall writers vſed ſuch of them as were fit, comely and true, and that by the example of the Apoſtle, which did not diſdaine to cite Menander, Aratus, and Epimenides, and that in the very body of the diuine Scripture which hee deliuered; and thoſe wordes which were otherwiſe prophane, hee fitted and applied (diuino cultui) to the ſeruice or worſhip of God: vnleſſe perhaps ye will ſay, that the words of Paul, which are written and ſet downe in the holy letters, doe leſſe ſerue to the worſhip of God, then the viſible words which are vſed in the Sacraments. Beſides who knoweth not that wine was conſecrated to Bacchus, bread to Ceres, water to Neptune, oyle to Minerua, letters to Mercury, ſongs to the Muſes or Apollo, and ſundry other matters of this nature you may finde in Turtullian (de corona militis) who there is moſt of all in this argument: Al which things notwithſtanding we are not afraid to vſe freely, as well in holy as prophane vſes, albeit, they hauehave beene dedicated to diuels, or to Idols (looke more in the former obiection, & in that which followeth) Loc. com. fol. 1087. Hoopero.

Obiect. Biſhop Hooper.] Theſe Ceremonies ars notes of Antichriſt, and they that communicate with them, doe communicate with Antichriſt.

Anſw. Bucer.] 1. For any thing to be a note of Antichriſt, is not in the nature of any creature in it ſelfe (for to that end nothing was made of God) But it hangeth altogether of conſenting to Antichriſts religion, and the profeſſing thereof: The which conſent and profeſſion being changed into the conſent and profeſſion of Chriſtianity, there can ſticke in p. 184the things themſelues, no note or marke of Antichriſts religion. The vſe of Bels was a marke of Antichriſtianity in our Churches, when the people by them were called to Maſſes, and when they were rung againſt Tempeſts: Now they are a token of Chriſtianitie, when the people by them are gathered together to the Goſpel of Chriſt, and other holy actions, why may it not then bee, that the ſelfe ſame garment (or other like Ceremonie) may ſerue Godly with Godly men, that was of wicked ſignification with the vngodly. 22 Truly I know very many Miniſters of Chriſt moſt Godly men, who hauehave vſed Godly theſe veſtures, and at this day doe yet vſe them: ſo that I dare not for this cauſe aſcribe vntounto them any fault at all, much leſſe ſo hainous a fault of communicating with Antichriſt, for the which fault we may vtterly refuſe to communicate with them in Chriſt. 33 The Prieſts of diuels did celebrate in their ſacrifices, the diſtribution of bread, and of the cuppe, as Iustinus Martyr, and Tertullian make mention, what let is there why we may not vſe the ſame Ceremonies alſo?

Obiect. You will ſay wee hauehave a commandement of the Lord touching this Ceremonie.

Anſw. Very well: And by the ſelfe ſame it appeareth, that ſame thing to ſerue among the children of God, to the ſeruice of Chriſt, which the wicked abuſed in the ſeruice of diuels, if the commandement of Chriſt bee added thereto. But it is the commandement of Chriſt, that in our actions we inſtitute and vſe all things, ſo as comlineſſe and order be obſerued, that faith may bee edified, &c. 44 Many things which the Antichriſts hauehave made markes of their impiety may be tokens of the kingdome of Chriſt, as the ſignes of Bread and Wine, the water of Baptiſme, and the laying on of hands▪ Preachings, Churches, Holy-dayes, and many other things alſo: theſe places of ſcripture are of a great ſcope; The earth and the fulneſſe thereof is of the Lord, not of the Diuell, not of Antichriſt, not of the wicked: And againe, the Sonne of man is Lord of the Sabboth, and the Sabboth is p. 185made for man, and not man for the Sabbath; and all hings are pure to the pure, and eueryevery creature o… God is good, nor can be defiled to good men, by the abuſe of euill men: The word of God muſt bee followed in all reſpects, as well in our priuate actions as publike: For all things are to be done in the Name of the Lord Ieſus, and to the glory of God. Then ſuch libertie as we grant vntounto our ſelues in our priuate vſe of external things, let vsus not denie in publike, Bucer. Epist. Ioan. Alaſco.

Hemingius] Some are offended with our Ceremonies, which they exclaime to bee Papiſticall. They ſay, wee in the Denmarke Churches hauehave Prieſts, Altars, Surpleſſes, Candles, Images, Exorciſmes, Signings with the Croſſe, plainly after the Papiſtical maner. To theſe I anſwer, that the true Church is to bee diſtinguiſhed from the falſe, by doctrine and worſhip, not by Ceremonies which are (per ſe adiaphora) in their owne nature indifferent; neither doe wee iudge indifferent Ceremonies of ſo great moment, as that for them Schiſmes ſhould be raiſed in the Church. Let the ſinceritie of Doctrine be retained, and the pure Worſhip of God; let other things ſerue partly for publike peace, partly for the weakeneſſe of men; and let vsus leaue theſe things to the wiſdom of our gouernors, and let them determine of theſe matters, Syntag. ad 4. leg. decal. §. 33. 34. fol. 365.

Obiect. Biſhop Hooper] If ye grant ſo great libertie to Churches, as that they may vſe all things for holy ſignifications and inſtructions, we ſhall open a window to let in all manner of abuſes, Iewiſh, Gentiliſh, Antichriſtian, yea, Holy water, Cenſing, and innumerable matters of that kinde.

Anſw. Bucer] This inconuenience neede not to bee feared at all: For the Churches which I hauehave deſcribed, and to the which I iudge that libertie, whereof I ſpeake, cannot bee denied, wil ſo temper whatſoeuer Rites or garments, which they aſſume for their vſe, that they may ſerue to illuſtrate, and not obſcure the Goſpel of our Lord Ieſus Chriſt, Script. Angli. fol. 709. Hoopero.

p. 186P. Martyr] 1. There is a meaſure to bee appointed in thoſe things, which they reuoke, that the Church of the faithfull bee not burdened with theſe kinde of matters.

2. Neither that Gods worſhip, or the opinion of Relegion be placed therein, as wee ſee in Popiſh holy water, and in cenſing to hauehave been done.

3. Further, great care herein is to be vſed, that Chriſtian libertie bee not hereby indangered, that albeit ſome olde Ceremonies bee reſtored, yet they be not ſo reſtored or eſteemed of, as a neceſſary meanes to obtaine ſaluation: But ſo ought ſuch things as theſe are to bee tolerated, that when they ſeeme leſſe profitable, they be remoued, Loc. com. fol. 1087. Hoopero.

Obiect. Biſhop Hooper] Therefore by this graunt it is in the Churches libertie to communicate but once a yeere, or very ſeldome: To ſtand and behold the celebration of the Lords Supper, and not to receiue, and the like.

Anſw. Bucer] Theſe things I iudge to bee per ſe Papiſtica, (and the like to theſe) for they are contrary to the word of God, as there hee ſheweth: But thoſe other circumſtances of place, time, ſite or habite of the body, in the celebration or receiuing of the Lords Supper: of admitting women as well as men to the Communion: of the forme and maner of publike prayer to God, and of ſinging Pſalmes: as alſo of garments and other things appertaining to outward decencie, I doubt not but the Lord hath giuen free power to his Church, of appointing and ordaining, concerning theſe matters, ſuch things as eueryevery Church doth iudge to bee moſt expedient for the vpholding and increaſe of reuerence in the people towards all the holy ordinances of God, Scrip. Anglic. fol. 708. Hoopero.

Obiect. Biſhop Hooper] Thus by impoſing of theſe Ceremonies, ſpirituall tyranny will bee eſtabliſhed on the conſcience.

Anſw. P. Martyr] I doe not thinke that tyranny is therefore brought in, if ſome indifferent thing (as the Surpleſſe, p. 187whereof hee ſpeaketh) be vndertaken or intertained to be practiſed in the Church, and be thereupon conſtantly obſerued of many. In theſe dayes wee doe ſo adminiſter the Lords Supper in the morning as that we will not hauehave the Communion adminiſtred after dinner; but who will call this tyrannicall, which all of vsus doe performe with like will & one conſent. To me in truth it were much more pleaſing, that we did onelyonly that which Chriſt practiſed and deliuered to his Apoſtles, but if ſome indifferent things be added, I would not for this cauſe now that to ſharpe contention be raiſed about it. Loc. com. fol. 1088. Hoopero.

Sarauia:] 1 Tyranny appertaineth to the Pope, which vndertaketh the command ouer mens conſciences, and vnderunder penalty of eternall curſe, commandeth & forbiddeth things (in their nature) indifferent, which cannot be approued for three cauſes. Firſt, becauſe he placeth religion in ſuch things whereby God is not worſhipped: Secondly, becauſe he aſſcribeth merit, expiation of ſins, and ſatisfaction to them: Thirdly, becauſe he hath no authority to exact theſe things of the people of God.

2 Yet we muſt know that the iuſt commaundements of lawfull authority, concerning things in their nature indifferent, doth euen with God tye the conſciences of men, albeit the Magiſtrate, and ſuch as hauehave lawfull authority, doe commit them to God, as for example; A Father commands his ſonne to digge his field: this ſonne cannot with ſafe conſcience diſobey his fathers command; that which was free vntounto him before his fathers command, when the commandement came is made neceſſary. A Merchant deſireth to tranſport certaine wares, it is a thing indifferent, but if the exportation of thoſe wares be forbidden by the Princes Proclamation, albeit the Prince reſpect not his conſcience, yet it is not a good mans part to carry out wares againſt the command of his Soueraigne, albeit he may doe it ſecretly without any puniſhment: the like I ſay of all other things, whether they concerne the common affaires of p. 188our life or the externall comlineſſe of diuine worſhip, ſo as golden mediocrity be obſerued, Defenſ. fol. 580.

Obiect. Bb. Hooper:] Theſe Ceremonies are repugnant & oppoſite vntounto the Word of God: they are impious ſuperſtitions.

Anſw. Caluin: In the Engliſh Leturgy as you (the Engliſh exiles at Frankford) do deſcribe vntounto me, I ſpy out many tolerabiles ineptias, tolerable vnfit things: By which two words I expreſſe thus much, that there was not that purity which were to be wiſhed, which errors could not immediately the firſt day be corrected (Cum nulla ſubeſſet manifeſta impietas ferenda ad tempus fuiſſe) Seeing there was therein contained no manifeſt impiety, theſe things ſhould hauehave beene borne withall for a time, Epiſt. 200. fol. 336.

Bucer:] 1. In the Ceremonies of the Engliſh Leturgy, or Booke of Common Prayer▪ I hauehave not found any thing which is not taken out of the Word of God, or at leſt which is repugnant to it, ſo it be fauourably vnderſtood, Bucer. ſcript. Angl. in cenſ. fol. 456.

2 I am not perſwaded that there is in them (the Surpleſſes) any impious thing (per ſe) of themſelues, or in their owne nature, ſo that godly men may not vſe them godly, Ibid. fol. 458. To make the vſe of theſe garments impious in themſelues, I ſee no Scripture to allow it, Ibid. f. 709. Hooper.

3 As for my part, if I thought that thoſe Ceremonies and Veſtures were impure of themſelues, I would not take vponupon me in any wiſe the office of a Miniſter or Biſhop, vntill by ordinary authority they were taken away, In Epiſt. to Io. Alaſco.

P. Martyr:] Theſe garments are (per ſe foreign) of themſelues indifferent, and doe make no man either godly or vngodly, loc. com. fol. 1085. amico cuidam. I doe not holde the vſe of theſe garments to be pernicious, or in their nature contrary to Gods Word, but doe eſteeme this vſe of them (omnino foreign) altogether indifferent, ib. fol. 1088, Hooper. This difference of garments I thinke not fit to be vſed, howbeit if other things which are preſcribed vntounto vsus from Gods p. 189Word, doe remaine entire, I hold ths vſe of theſe Veſtures neither impious, neither pernicious, (per ſe, aut ſuâ natur à) of themſelues, or in their nature. Ibid. fol. 1089. Hoopero.

2. I dare not condemne whomſoeuer I ſhall ſee vſe theſe garments: If I were ſo perſwaded, I would neuer hauehave communicated heere in England with the Church, wherein ſuch difference of garments is retained. Ib. f. 1486. Hoopero.

Beza:] Of Surpleſſes: They are not (ex earum rerum genere) of thoſe kinde of matters which are per ſe impiae, of themſelues wicked, Epiſt. 12. fol. 98. Some men will ſay they are indifferent things; I grant them verily ſo to be, being conſidered in themſelues, Ibid. fol. 97. Caps and Surpleſſes verè media & indifferentia, truely indifferent, Ibid. Epiſt. 8. fol. 78. Round wafer bread, kneeling at Communion: non per ſe impia, Ibid. fol. 77. Signe of the croſſe in Baptiſme, kneeling at the Communion, are not per ſe Idololatrica, matters of themſelues Idolatrous, Ibid. Epiſt. 12. fol. 99. 100.

Heming: It is (adiaphorum natur â) a matter indifferent in nature to performe holy things, as Baptiſme, and the Lords Supper in a linnen garment, Enchirid. tit. de Adiaph. claſſ. 3. cap. 10. fol. 375.

Zanch: It is (liberum per ſe) a free matter of it ſelfe to vſe or not to vſe a linnen garment, De redempt. lib. 1. cap. 16. fol. 445.

Bucan: Indifferēt things are ſaid to be ſuch actions, which are neither preciſely commanded in the Law, or word of God, neither yet expreſly forbidden to be done: as to eate fleſh, or this or that kinde of meate, or not to eate it on this or that kinde of day: to be clothed in this faſhion or colour, or not to be clothed. Loc. 33. quaeſt. 13. fol. 382.

Cartwright:] The Surpleſſe is a thing in its owne nature indifferent; In the reſt of the 2. reply. fol. 262.

Polanus:] The vſe of a linnen garment is a thing indifferent, In Ezec. 44. fol. 807.

Obiect. Your common prayer Booke is framed like the Romiſh Maſſe booke. This obiection was made by ſuch as Alexander p. 190Aleſius calleth optimi & veritatus studioſiſsimi.

Anſw. Aleſius: To this obiection, albeit they giuegive anſwere which framed the Common prayer Booke themſelues [in the Preface of ceremonies] yet we alſo may ſay truely, that it is beſt in all changes and alterations, as little to digreſſe or differ much from thoſe things which are in vſe, as poſſible may bee: becauſe ſodaine and great alterations are euer very perillous: And it is much more ſafe to follow the commendable conſent of ſome few, then caſting all away, to begin and ordaine another altogether new. The errors and faults of the Maſſe bookes are not therefore approoued, if ſomething be defended which thoſe errors hauehave defiled, ſo the errors be remoued. Neither doth the Phiſitian flatter the diſeaſe, if preſently he cut not off, and caſt not away the member, which laboureth with a recouerable euill. This whether ye call it wiſedome, or moderation, or timorouſneſſe, or whatſoeuer, I ſay it neither ſerueth, neither gratifieth the impiety of any, but doth performe a neceſſary duety warily and circumſpectly, and with the feare of God; and ſerueth God and the Church, in profeſſing and defending, and keeping the heauenly trueth; and doeth glorifie the Sonne of God, which will be worſhipped by holineſſe and righteouſneſſe before God, and adored by the holy Ghoſt. This moderation will not content him that is more hot of nature; yet let ſuch a one looke what hee doth, and whither he goeth: Let him looke that he be not ouer-wiſe, more then he ought to be wiſe: Let him not cauill at other mens godly and temperate reaſons; neither let him inſolently condemne others leſſe ſtout and confident: For all muſt ſtand before the tribunall of God, to giuegive an account of the things they hauehave done: Let not therefore the high minded too curiouſly pry into all the ſayings and doings of the more humble: Let him beare with ſome things; let him ſlaunder none: Let him not hope by wrangling or brauling, that it is poſſible to giuegive helpe to things out of order, but rather to all agreement making, to bring two neceſſary p. 191affections, one of knowing the ſtate, another of pardoning the faults. Iudgement is a great and high thing. This by how much the buſineſſe is greater, is by ſo much the more diligently intended, and opinion is leſſe raſhly to be giuen: The cauſe ought to be euident, (not ambiguous) and of great weight, and by no meanes to be diſſembled, for the which one brother ſhould accuſe another, much leſſe that it hold a right affection to condemne him. Let eueryevery one therefore looke that hee be not ſwift to ſpeake, but rather attentiue to know, and inclined to pardon, whereſoeuer he may lawfully do: but of this ſufficient, Inter. Script. Anglic. Buceri fol. 374.

Obiect. Biſhop Hooper:] Holy ſignificatiue ſignes are vnlawfull.

Anſw. Bucer:] 1. When as God by his word hath ſanctified all things by our prayers, and hath made all things pure to the pure, what cauſe can wee alleadge out of the word of God, to deny that God will not bleſſe the vſe of ſuch ſignes, (whereof we ſpeake) that it ſhould not be effectuall to that Church; to ſome commendation of the Miniſtrie, and thereof alſo to ſome edification of the faith? For how can it be but that hee, which promiſed to bleſſe the workes of our hands, which we take in his name, wil deny his bleſſing to theſe ſignes, ſeeing he hath no where forbidden ſuch an vſe of them as we hauehave expounded; and hath made vsus Lords of the Sabbath, and all other things in the world? In Epist. Ioan. Alaſco.

2. Let vsus conſider what the Holy Ghoſt teacheth, of the ſignification of a womans vaile, and couering of the mans head, 1. Cor. 10. wherefore doeth hee particularely mention the bright garments of the Angels? The Holy Ghoſt doeth nothing raſhly, and doeth by all creatures preach the ſaluation of his, which conſiſteth in the faith of the Goſpel, Script. Anglican. fol 709. Hoopero.

Petre Martyr:] The Miniſters of the Church are the Angels, and Meſſengers of the Church, as Malachy witneſſeth; and the Angels all wayes for the moſt appeared, as p. 192apparelled in white garments: [This hee calleth honeſta & iuſta ſignificatio a Scripturis non aliena an honeſt and fit ſignification of the Surpleſſe, not diſagreeing, or ſtrang from the Scripture.] How ſhall wee depriue the Church of this libertie, that it may not ſignifie ſome thing by her actions and Ceremonies; ſo as the people of Chriſt, bee not burdened with Ceremonies, and better things be not hindered? ye will ſay, let them declare themſelues to be Angels indeed, let them not ſignifieit. But this might be replied as well on Saint Paul, when hee appointed among the Corinthians, that a woman ſhould hauehave her head couered, & a man hauehave his head open, 1. Cor. 11. 5. for he only preſſeth the reaſon of ſignification, to confirme this Ceremonie. Now any man of the Corinthian Church might here reply vponupon him thus; let the man declare himſelfe indeed to be the head of the woman, and let the woman ſhew her ſelfe ſubiect to her husband, by their deeds and life; let them not ſtriue to declare it by ſignes. But the Apoſtle ſaw that euen this might profitably be done, not onelyonly that wee liue rightly, but alſo that by words and ſignes we be admoniſhed of our duetie, Loc. com. fol. 1089. Epiſt. Hoopero.

Zanchius:] Albeit, a garment linnen or wollen for a Miniſter, be numbred among indifferent things: yet for the ſignification (magis deceret veſtis linea quàm lanea) a linnen garment were more decent then a wollen for a Miniſter to weare in the adminiſtration of the Sacrament: for that it is the Symbole, or type of innocencie and holineſſe. Hence in the Apocalips, white garments are giuen the Saints, De redempt. cap. 16. fol. 445.

Obiect. Theſe Ceremonies bee offenſiue and ſcandalous; to the godly who are grieued and burdened with them; to the Papiſts who reioyce in our practiſe, and are confirmed in their damnable will worſhips; to the weake who ſtagger, and can by no meanes bee perſwaded of the lawfulneſſe of them, and many hauehave occaſion hereby to ſeparate; and in a word generally to all ſorts.

p. 193Anſw. Caluin:] 1. Touching holy-dayes and other Ceremonies: It is a very hard condition to the godly brethren to ſubiect themſelues to thoſe things, which they vnderſtand to be neither right nor profitable. For my part, I doe iudge, that many defects are to be tolerated, and borne with, wheras they cannot bee amended: wherefore I doe not thinke that any of the brethren ſhould for this cauſe proceede ſo farre, as to ſeparate and depart from the Church, whereof he is a member; if ſo bee the greater part of the Church be of a contrary iudgement, becauſe in ſuch caſes it ſeemes to mee ſufficient, if that which wee knowe to be right, bee of vsus laboured vntounto.

Obiect. That which is thruſt vponupon vsus doth bring with it ſcandall, and alſo drawes along an euill taile, namely, ſundry euill effects.

Anſw. Notwithſtanding this, becauſe theſe Ceremomonies are not repugnant to the Word of God, they may be yeelded to, eſpecially where the greater number doth ouerſway, and whenas there is no meanes for him that is only a member of the body to proceede further, Epist. 379 fol. 658.

2. I vnderſtood ſome difficultie caſt in your way about certaine Ceremonies, which thoſe your Hoſtes, and entertainers would hauehave you to vſe: Surely I ſee nothing more expedient, then to vſe moſt few Ceremonies in the Chriſtian Church: For it is ſufficiently euident by experience it ſelfe, how eaſie a matter it is, by occaſion of them to ſlide into ſuperſtition, howbeit the matter is otherwiſe, when authoritie reſteth not in vsus, of admitting or refuſing what ſeemeth to vsus meete: And thoſe Ceremonies are not matters of that qualitie, on occaſion whereof we ſhould voluntarily ſuſpend, or ſeparate our ſelues from the Supper of the Lord, and as much as in vsus lieth, wee muſt procure that which is manifeſt to bee the beſt. But if wee may not obtaine what wee deſire (feramus illos defectus) let vsus beare with thoſe defects, and not approue of them, ſo as there be p. 194therein no impietie, or other thing repugnant to Gods Word: As for example, If any ſhew or kinde of Idolatry were therein, we ought to withſtand it, euen to the death: But where the doctrine it ſelfe is ſound and pure, and the Ceremonies be vſed to a ciuill kinde of honeſtie and decencie, they are by vsus to bee paſſed by in ſilence, rather then by occaſion of them wee ſhould proceed to contentions, and more grieuous tumults, Epist. 303. fol. 497.

3. This muſt bee euer remembred, that by whatſoeuer ſcandals Satan and the world doe labour to draw vsus away from the commaundements of God, or to hinder vsus from following that which he preſcribeth, we muſt notwithſtanding this ſtoutly proceede, Iust. 3. 19. 13.

P. Martyr] 1. We confeſſe wee muſt yeeld ſomething to the weake, but yet with Paul wee muſt not ſuffer this to be done, but onelyonly in things indifferent; But that which is in it ſelfe euill, and forbidden of God, wee aduiſe that it bee not done for any mans ſake: For the rule remaineth vnremoueable, which granteth to no man to commit euill that good may come thereof, yea, and neither may wee alway yeelde vntounto the weake in things indifferent, but onelyonly ſo farre foorth, vntill they bee taught better and more perfectly: But when they vnderſtand the matter, and yet notwithſtanding this doe ſticke, their weakeneſſe muſt not be nouriſhed in them. Beſides, ſo much may not be yeelded to the weake, as that wee ſhould harme others, and many mo of the members of Chriſt by our example, Loc. com. claſ. 2. cap. 4. §. 32. fol. 201.

2. In that you write, that very many will bee offended with your wearing the Epiſcopall garments, and holy garments as they call them; I doe eaſily beleeue it: but you ſhall auoide the fault of ſcandall, if ye declare in your Sermons, that thoſe garments alſo are diſpleaſing vntounto you, & withall do with all care endeuour, that they may at laſt bee aboliſhed Epiſt. Amic. in Angliam, fol. 1128.

3. If occaſion of erring be giuen to the weake hereby, p. 195let them bee admoniſhed, that they perſwade themſelues theſe things to bee indifferent: Let them bee taught by Sermons, that Gods worſhip is not placed in thoſe things, Loc. fol. 1089. Epist. Hoopero.

4 To this Obiection, that the eies of the beholders will be turned aſide from thinking on ſerious matters: Hee anſwereth, This it may be, wilnot be iudged to be true of al beholders: For firſt it may be anſwered, that will not come to paſſe if without coſt theſe garments be vſed ſimply, as they hauehave bin hitherto; for the vſe and profit of them do take away admiration: Againe perhaps it may be anſwered, that it is probable that the people being moued with admiration, may thinke of attentiuely the things that be more ſerious, for which cauſe the Sacramentall ſignes ſeeme to hauehave beene impoſed, that from the very ſight and ſenſe they may be drawne to thinke of diuine things, ibid.

Bucer: 1 Holdeth that the faithfull preachers of Gods Word may then vſe the Surpleſſe, if they ioyne withall the cleere preaching of Chriſt our Sauiour, and with all the detection and deteſtation of whole Antichriſt, as well of the Roman, as of any other, that they by the vſe of theſe garments meane not to eſtabliſh any of Antichriſts wicked lies which be thruſt vponupon the people: That the Prieſts are in themſelues no whit holier, or more effectuall to appeaſe God then other Chriſtians are: That they doe not ſet Chriſt before his Father in the Communion, neither apply his merit by their deed and will to any man, morethen any man doth receiue by faith out of the words of the Sarcrament: That Aaronicall Rites are not to be recalled: That by the wearing of theſe garments, they onelyonly giuegive obedience to thoſe gouernours, within the compaſſe of whoſe authoritie God will hauehave the determination of externall Rites (conſentientes tamen Verbo Dei) though yet agreeing to Gods Word. And that heereby they flee from the offence of troubling the common order, and the publike conſent, as alſo that heereby they doe witneſſe to godly perſons that eueryevery p. 196creature of God is good, euen by the way of ſignification, and therefore that all Chriſtians truely beleeuing may well and godly vſe theſe things, howſoeuer impiouſly others hauehave abuſed them, Script. Anglic. Cranmero fol. 682.

2 To this that in England many vſe Veſtures with manifeſt ſuperſtition, and that they doe nouriſh and confirme in the people ſuperſtition; euen ſo it may be anſwered, very many abuſe all this whole Sacrament, as alſo Baptiſme and all other Ceremonies, Epist. Ioan. Alaſco.

Zanchius: In things indifferent ſomething is to be yeelded to the weaker, and that for a time; namely, vntill they be taught the truth. For if after that the truth is ſufficiently and cleerely laide abroad vntounto them ſo as being conuicted they hauehave nothing more what they may obiect and yet will notwithſtanding ſticke in doubt; ſure their infirmity is not to be nouriſhed by their diſſembling with them or winking at them. For this is rather ſtrong obſtinacy then weakeneſſe, Deredemp. cap. 17. fol. 493.

Beza in a caſe of depriuation aduiſeth to conforme; yet before they conforme hee thus counſelleth them: That both the Paſtor and the flocke ſinne not againſt their conſcience (preſuppoſing the puritie of doctrine to be left entire:) We perſwade the Paſtors that after they hauehave freed their conſcience, both before the Kings Maieſtie and the Biſhops, by a modeſt (as it becommeth Chriſtians to be free from all tumult and ſedition) and yet weighty proteſtation (according as the greatneſſe of the caſe requires:) they then doe openly preſſe vntounto their flockes thoſe things which doe tend to take away the offence ariſing from conformity, and doe withall diſcreetly and peaceably giuegive diligent indeauour for the amendment of theſe abuſes, as the Lord ſhall offer occaſion (and ſo to conforme) Epiſt. 12. fol. 99.

Cartwright: The offence in occaſioning the weake to fall, and the wicked to be confirmed in their wickedneſſe, p. 197is one of the fowleſt ſpots caſt vponupon the Surpleſſe: But when it is laid in the ſcales with the preaching of the word of God, which is ſo neceſſary for him that is called thereunto, that a woe hangeth on his head if hee doe not preach it, it is of leſſe importance, then for the refuſall of it, wee ſhould let goe ſo neceſſary a duety. As for that which is vttered againſt the offence, it is as the reſt of this diſputation, to ſhew how inconueniently ſuch things are eſtabliſhed, not that they may not in any reſpect be borne with. In the vſe of thoſe indifferent things, and abſtaining from them, wee are ſo ſtraitly bound to hauehave regard vntounto the weake brother, as no Magiſtrate is able to looſe the knot of that bond. But where offences cannot otherwiſe be redeemed then by leauing that vndone, which the Lord himſelfe hath not left free vntounto vsus, but caſt a yoke of neceſſary ſeruice vponupon vsus, there the caſe is otherwiſe: For if the Prince vponupon declaration of the inconuenience of ſuch Ceremonies, and humble ſuite for the releaſe of them, will nothing looſe of the coard of this ſeruitude, for my part I ſee no better way, then with admonition of them thereunto, to keepe on the courſe of feeding the flocke committed vntounto him. This is in few words my ſimple iudgement of the matter of this apparell and ſuch like ceremonies. In the reſt of his ſecond reply, fol. 262. 263.

Sarauia: To the obiection, that the Papiſts will be confirmed in their moſt damnable will-worſhips, by the vſe of theſe ceremonies. 1. This is denied for two cauſes: Firſt, for the publique contrary doctrine, which challengeth and reproueth thoſe which profeſſe the vſe of theſe ceremonies for ſuperſtition: Secondly, for the Publique authority, which, (as is knowen to all, doth forbid the Subiects of eating of fleſh, and commandeth other things) not for that end which the Pope intendeth. For there is great difference betweene thoſe things which are performed by way of obedience to publicke authority, and thoſe things which are ſuperſtitiouſly aſſumed to be done by priuate councell. p. 198There was a controuerſie among the Primitiue Chriſtians about the obſeruation of legall ceremonies; Some thought that eueryevery kinde of foode was ſanctified: others beleeued the contrary. They which thought rightly, might eate of ſtrangled meate, and of blood, and it was ſuperſtition for them, to abſtaine of conſcience: Neither could any man make a Law vntounto himſelfe of abſtaining from ſtrangled meate and blood, more then from ſwines fleſh. But after that it was vponupon good aduice eſtabliſhed by the authority of the Church, (not to confirme any man in a falſe opinion) that ſuch as were conuerted from Paganiſme vntounto the faith of Chriſt, ſhould abſtaine from ſtrangled meate and blood, that, which to doe on a mans priuate councell had been a ſinne, was made to be godly by the authority of the Churches conſtitution, Defenſ. de diuerſ. grad. miniſtr. cap. 25. fol. 580. 581.

2. Touching the ſcandall of the weake (by the vſe of theſe ceremonies) which is obiected, it cannot take place againſt a publicke law, to the which priuate perſons ought not to preferre their iudgement, but ſubiect it according to the publicke doctrine and profeſſion, as well of the Magiſtrates, as of the chiefe gouernors of the Church, Ib. f. 851.

3. Touching the Papiſts ſcandall: Small regard is to be had of them in this Kingdome; their error can admit of no excuſe, after ſo many yeeres preaching of the Goſpell: Paganiſme being aboliſhed, and the Idoles with their worſhip being caſt out, the Idolothytes or things offred Idoles, did ceaſe. Euen ſo the Pope, being caſt out and renounced, there ceaſeth whatſoeuer he brought in and polluted, in aſmuch as thoſe things which are done this day with vsus at the Princes command, or for obedience ſake vntounto our Lawes: whereas withall, ſound and Chriſtian doctrine flouriſheth of the grace of God, and mans merits: ſuch Ceremonies and actions cannot bee compared neither with the eating of a thing offred to Idoles, neither with Popiſh will-worſhip, &c. Ibid. fol. 582.

p. 199Obiect. Biſhop Hooper:] By the ſtrict preſſing and obedience to theſe Ceremonies, Chriſtian libertie will bee infringed and broken.

Peter Martyr:] The endangering of our Chriſtian libertie will bee preuented, if ſuch Ceremonies as bee reſtored bee not ſo reſpected, as if they were neceſſary to obtaine ſaluation: and againe if wee doe ſo beare with ſuch matters as theſe are, that when they ſeeme to bee leſſe profitable, they may bee remoued, Loc. fol. 1087. Hoopero.

Beza:] Albeit, the Chriſtian liberty hath taken away the yoke of the Ceremonial law, and inſteed therof it is not lawful, for any mortal man to put another yoke, yet the too promiſcuous vſe of things indifferent is lawfully reſtrained, both in generall and in ſpeciall. In generall it is reſtrained by the law of charitie, which is vniuerſall, that is reſpecting all perſons and things, and carefully bewaring, that nothing otherwiſe indifferent and lawfull be done, whereby ones neighbour be deſtroyed; and that nothing be omitted, whereby he may be edified. But here two cautions muſt be preſuppoſed, one that whatſoeuer may and ought to bee done, or omitted, ought alway to bee iudged by the word of God: the other that eueryevery man hauehave a reſpect vntounto his calling, thus are we to vnderſtand that of the Apoſtle, I am made all things to all men. In ſpeciall, if the vſe of things indifferent be reſtrained by a conſtitution, whether politicke or Eccleſiaſticall. For albeit, God onelyonly bindeth the conſcience porperly: yet ſo farre forth as; either the Magiſtrate, which is the Miniſter of God doeth iudge it to bee good for the Commonwealth, that ſome thing otherwiſe lawfull in it ſelfe be not done; either the Church hauing reſpect of order, and decencie, and edification, doeth eſtabliſh ſome lawes orderly concerning things indifferent: ſuch lawes are altogether to bee obſerued of the godly, and ſo farre forth doe tye the conſcience, as that no man wittingly, and willingly, and deliberately, with a purpoſe to diſobey, may p. 200without ſinne either doe the things which are forbidden, or omitte the things which are commanded, Epist. 24. fol. 143.

Zanchius:] Chriſtians, albeit they bee ſubiected to no lawes of men in reſpect of their conſcience, but are exempted from all power of men: yet in reſpect of their outward man, in reſpect of the fleſh, they are not exempted from all power of men, but are rather ſubiect to Magiſtrates, as well Ciuill as Eccleſiaſticall, and are tyed to obey them both for Gods commandement, and the publike good, and for keeping of order in the Church, as Rom. 13. 1. 1. Pet. 2. Compend. cap. 14. fol. 620.

Hemingius:] That no man abuſe this his Chriſtian libertie, both pietie to God, and charitie to his neighbour perſwade vsus that we obſerue the godly Rites and Ceremonies, eſtabliſhed for order and diſcipline ſake, ſo as the neceſſary worſhip of God, opinion of righteouſneſſe, merrit and neceſſity bee not placed in them, Enchirid. claſ. 3. cap. 14. fol. 372. de libertate Chriſtiana.

Sarauia:] Chriſtian liberty doeth not exempt men from the obedience of thoſe, to whom God hath made vsus ſubiect. The pure doctrine of the Goſpel doeth take away the abuſe of things, and reſtoreth the true vſe of all things, which infidelitie had polluted; in as much as albeit, the actions outwardly are very like: yet they are diuerſe, aſwell from the cauſe efficient, from which they are done, as the end for the which they are done, Defenſ. de gradibus Miniſtr. cap. 25. fol. 582.

And ſo much for the proofe of this argument: In all which precedent allegations, I thinke fit to obſerue and note thus much▪ that albeit, I confeſſe there bee ſome difference among thoſe worthy writers primitiue and latter, about this matter circumſtantiall and ceremoniall, ſome looking more vponupon the practiſe of the Primitiue Church, and the ſubſtantials and maine worſhippes of God, and danger of their remouing; by remouing of theſe Ceremonies, p. 201were more inclined to the defence of ceremonies; other looking into the inconueniēces, & many euill effects of the ceremonies, & wiſhing Apoſtolical ſimplicity, & in the iuſt deteſtation of Antichriſt & all his ſuperſtitions, hauehave been more ſterne againſt them; & yet all of them hauehave vniformely agreed in the ſubſtātials of Religion; as alſo in this point, for the which they are alleadged onelyonly, namely, that ſuch Ceremonies as are with vsus preſcribed, ſuppoſe they were inconuenient, and fit to bee aboliſhed, yet they are not of that moment for a man to loſe his Miniſtery, and to hazzard the ouerthrow of the Church, for the refuſing of them: and this is worthy to bee noted for the confirmation of this argument, that they are all and eueryevery one among the Orthodoxe, ancient and late claſſicall Fathers and Diuines, of this very mind. And againe, there is not one, I ſay not one of any ſound iudgmēt or good report in the Church of God, for the contrary opinion, vnles Heretikes, & Schiſmatikes, ſuch as Donatiſts, Anabaptiſts, Separatiſts. As for Illiricus, (and his few aſſociats and defendants) who onelyonly is alleadged to bee of this minde, albeit he well deſerued for his labour in the Centuries, and certaine other of his workes: And ſomething might beſaid for his excuſe, and to ſhew the difference of his caſe from ours; as that,

1. The Miniſters of Germanie were compelled to vſe Illir. clau. Scriptur. par. 1. fol. 23. verbo adiaph.ſuch Ceremonies, which were caſt out by the Church before.

2. That they were commaunded and enioyned them by the Romiſh Church: Charles the fift, by the aduice of Sleid. comment. li. 20. ann. 1548. fol. 330. a. & fo. 332. b. f. 349. ahis Clergie impoſed the Interim (wherein were ſundry Popiſh errors to bee receiued and approoued) on the German Churches, which was refuſed & confuted by diuers Churches, in which reſpect Illiricus, and the reſt, refuſed the Ceremonies, as in a caſe of confeſſion; and in which reſpect Hemingius himſelfe, an adiaphoriſt, maketh an excuſe for Heming. Enchirid. claſſ. 3. cap. 16. tit. adiaph. fol. 375.the Miniſters refuſall in that caſe, becauſe ſuperſtitionis gratia ſeruabatur, whereas in another hee pleadeth for the vſe p. 202of them, as being things indifferent. Yet for all this, the condition of Illiricus is not vnknowen to the Church of God, how furiouſly and turbulently he was addicted to the peremptory maintenance of vnſauoury and groſſe errors diuers other wayes, and vnſufferable diſgrace of his betters for deſert vntounto the Church of God, whereby wee may the more probably geſſe of the truth of his opinions this way, and ſuppoſing that his caſe were the ſelf ſame caſe with our depriued Miniſters; yet what is one to vniuerſality? Illiricus to all the Church of God, to broach a ſingular and new opinion of ſuffering depriuation for inconuenient Ceremonies, not knowen nor heard of ſince the time of Chriſt, yea, accuſing and condemning of all others beſides himſelfe of errors and falſe doctrines. But if any be deſirous to ſee further of Illiricus, and of the iniquitie of his cauſe and proceedings, let him looke Melancthon. conſil. part. 2. fol. 104, 105, 106. 107, 108, 109. and Beza in vita Caluini anno 1549. And it is worth the obſeruation that a French Hiſtorian ſaith of him, Mathias Flaccius, homo vehemens, & quocunque loco pedem figeret acerrimus turbarum incentor, Iac. Aug. Thuanus hiſt. l. 38. fol. 806. b. anno 1567.

Thus wee hauehave ſeene the iudgement of all true antiquitie, and of all their pure poſteritie, to be oppoſite to the doctrine and practiſe of ſuffering depriuation for vſing inconuenient Ceremonies; whereby his argument is proued: And therefore the concluſion which followeth is, that the doctrine of ſuffering depriuation for not vſing inconuenient Ceremonies, cannot bee admitted with a good conſcience: and laſtly, to admit and practiſe it, it is a ſinne againſt God.

The whole foregoing argument is thus concluded in a Syllogiſme.

Whatſoeuer doctrine or practiſe tendeth to condemne all true Churches, and godly learned teachers (which are knowen to hauehave declared their iudgements of theſe things) ſince the time of the Apoſtles, without exception of any p. 203one for teaching of falſe doctrine and for maintaining of a ſin, is contrary to Gods Word, an errour in doctrine, and a ſinne in practiſe: But

Thus doth the doctrine and practiſe of ſuffering depriuation for refuſing to conforme to the preſcribed Ceremonies in the Church of England.

Ergo, the doctrine and practiſe of ſuffering depriuation is contrary to Gods Word, an errour in doctrine, and a ſin in practiſe.

This whole argument I ſhut vp with the ſayings of Lumbertus, which he vſed on another occaſion, In Ep. dedicat. de Christo ſeruatore contra Socinum: Nihil noui attuli, ſed antiquam & receptam doctrinam, quam hoc ſaeculo Martinus Chemnitius, Iohannes Caluinus, Petrus Martyr, Zacharias Ʋrſinus, & multi alij Sancti Viri ex Dei verbo clarè & ſolide docuerunt, defendi & tutatus ſum: Idem ibid. Subijcio hunc librum iudicio ſanctae & orthodoxae Eccleſiae, quae Augustanam, Helueticam, Gallicam, Brittanicam & Belgicam confeſſiones ſequitur. Hanc enim eſſe veram Eccleſiam, & de his dogmatis quae in hoc libro tractantur rectè ſentire credo, cum hác me concordiam colere profiteor.

To theſe authorities there are ſome things excepted, which heere I will ſetdowne: And

Obiect. Friſt, that there is not that conſent in theſe authorities, no harmony nor agreement neither in iudgement nor in practiſe: Not in iudgement, for they diſagree among themſelues; ſome commend the Ceremonies, others diſcommend them, eſteeming them vnprofitable, inexpedient, hurtfull: Not in practiſe, for the firſt 200. yeeres their vniforme practiſe was anſwerable to the ſimplicity of the ordinance of Chriſt and his Apoſtles, in the parts of Gods publike worſhips, which will appeare if ye cite the vndoubted writings of the pure Fathers, and not their Apocryphals or Baſtard and ſuppoſed writings.

Anſw. 1 This obiection is quite beſides the queſtion, and is nothing to the point in hand, and therefore might hauehave well p. 104beene ſpared. The queſtion here is not whether the Churches and Writers agree or diſagree in their iudgement & practiſe of ſuch Ceremonies as ours are, but whether in a caſe of depriuation a man ought to conforme to Ceremonies as euill & inconuenient as ours are pretended to be, rather then ſuffer depriuation. The anſwer by me is affirmatiue, which concluſion all the forealleaged Authors, as well one as other, doe vniformely hold conſent and agree vponupon: and of this there is an vndoubted harmony. For their differences, let them be vrged when queſtion is concerning any point wherein they differ. To giuegive inſtance hereof, ſuppoſe a queſtion betweene Timothy and Titus, whether it were fit that the Apoſtles ſhould viſit the Church which they had by preaching conuerted to the faith; and to finde out the truth heereof they will referre themſelues to the iudgement of Paul and Barnabas, who conuerted them vntounto the truth: Timothy ſaith, that they ſhould doe well to viſit them, and alleadgeth that Paul and Barnabas did conſent in that iudgement and practiſe as appeareth, Acts 15. 26. Titus denieth it and ſaith, there was no conſent nor agreement in their iudgement nor practiſe: For Barnabas counſelled to take Iohn called Marke with him, but Paul thought it not meet. Heere may Timothy reply, that the queſtion betweene vsus is not about the taking a long of Marke, wherein they diſagreed, but about the viſiting of the Churches wherein they were both of one minde.

2Touching their practiſe of 200. yeeres, that it was anſwerable to the ſimplicity of the ordinance of Chriſt and his Apoſtles: I grant that it was much more pure for that ſpace then it was euer after; for as the time ran on, ſo purity vaniſhed, and ſuperſtition grew on, as in a praecipitium and deſperate downefall: Howbeit the myſtery of iniquity began to worke euen in the Apoſtles times: The Diuell in thoſe dayes began to ſowe his tares (as the watchmen began to ſleepe) both of falſe doctrine and corrupt Ceremonies, the controuerſie which troubled all the Chriſtian p. 205world, was within one hundred yeeres. And Anacletus, Euariſtus, Telesphorus, Anicetus, Victor, as alſo Polycarp, Irenaeus, which note the controuerſie about Eaſter, and others, were within the 200. yeeres: So were the Hereticks, Valentinus, Montanus, Chiliastae. and others, who brought innumerable ceremonies. Clemens Alexandrinus, and Tertullian within the 210. yeere did ſtirre in their writing: Origen about the 216. yere: Cyprian about the 240. yeere. In whoſe vndoubted and not baſtard writings may be ſeene, and hath beene alleadged the diuerſity and multitude of Ceremonies which were then in vſe: and much more might be ſaid touching the confirmation of this point, namely, that ſuch ceremonies as were then in vſe, as inconuenient in vſe and nature as ours, were practiſed by them: and the doctrine of ſuffering Depriuation for refuſing to conforme vntounto ſuch Ceremonies as ours, was not by any of them taught, but by all of them confuted, partly by their doctrine, and partly by their practiſe.

Obiect. Theſe Churches and writers were ſtrangers to our cauſe, nor ſo well acquainted with the ſtate of our Church, and therefore could not ſo well iudge of our caſe.

Anſw. The perſons whoſe iudgements are alleadged, were either ſtrangers to our Church, or acquainted with the ſtate thereof. The ſtrangers thereto were the Fathers of the Primitiue Church, and the Lutheran authors; Both which becauſe they were the practiſers of more and worſe Ceremonies then ours can bee imagined to bee, it is nothing to the point, whether they were ignorant of our Church, or not: For they that for the Churches peace did practiſe and perſwade the practiſe of Ceremonies, more in number, and worſe for quality, would much more practiſe and perſwade the leſſer and the fewer in the ſame caſe, as all men know. For the reſt which were acquainted with the ſtate of our Church, they were either forreiners, or members of our Church: The forreiners were ſome of them inform'd of our Churches eſtate, by ſuch as were not partiall in the relation p. 206thereof; Such as Caluin, who had our Leturgy tranſlated, and ſent him to peruſe; Beza, Bullinger, Gualter, Zanchius, Vrſinus, Polanus, &c. Others were ſuch as dwelling in our Church, were eye-witneſſes themſelues of the ſtate thereof, ſuch as Bucer in Cambridge: For whoſe cenſure the common praier Booke was tranſlated into Latine. P. Martyr in Oxon. The members of our Church were no leſſe worthy then the Forreiners and could not be ignorant of the ſtate of this Church; ſuch as the Martyrs, Cranmer, Ridley, F. and Hooper who at laſt conformed. Exiles, as Foxe, Iewell, Nowell, Parkhuſt, Sanders, Grindall, Humphry, &c. And the latter teachers, as Deering Fulke Perkins, and eſpecially Maſter Cartwright, who with moſt exact diligence did ſift eueryevery thing to the vtmoſt of his power, that might cary any ſhew of the warrant of an oppoſition.

Obiect. Theſe perſons which had notice of our ſtate, conſidered not of our grounds of Scripture, and of the arguments which we alleadge: they profeſſed that they ſaw: but if they ſaw our reaſons, and ſo vrged as we vrge them, they would doubtleſſe hauehave bene of other iudgement.

Anſw. They conſidered of all the maine reaſons which are now vrged, as appeareth before in the Anſweres of Maſter Bucer and P. Martyr, to the ſeuerall obiections of B b. Hooper; Beſides, the members of our Church were wel acquainted with the reaſons vrged againſt them, eſpecially the later.

Obiect. Some of the Authors which perſwade to vſe the Ceremonies, doe giuegive ſuch allegations as ouerthrow their owne grounds, and thereby we are more confirmed, that ſo great lights bring ſo weake grounds. For example: The Fathers did with one conſent teach a refuſall of all Ceremonies, which were contra fidem, & bonos mores: and therefore ſeeing our Ceremonies are contra fidem, & bonos mores, it followeth that the doctrine and practiſe of refuſing our Ceremonies, agreeth with the doctrine of the Fathers: as for their practiſe, if it were contrary to their doctrine, in that part it was their ignorance, we muſt leaue their practiſe, and p. 207follow their doctrine, Mat. 23. 2.

Anſw. 1 Neither doeth this obiection touch the queſtion, which is whether all Churches and faithfull teachers doe vniformely teach conformitie to ſuch Ceremonies as ours, in caſe of depriuation: yet I anſwere, that theſe allegations of theirs muſt bee produced and better ſifted, before it will bee granted, that they ouerthrow themſelues with their owne grounds, which when it is performed I will further anſwere if I can.

2It is petitio principij, or a begging of the queſtion to conclude without any further proofe that our Ceremonies are contra fidem & bonos mores, and I thinke verely that our brethren themſelues, which doe thus obiect, will not ſay that they are fundamentall, or ouerthrowing Chriſt, which they ſhould doe if they were contra fidem & bonos mores. Let this be ſoundly proued and then I will yeeld the whole cauſe, but then with all it muſt bee concluded, that no Church can bee a Church, which retaineth fundamentall errors; No conformer to them without repentance can be ſaued: the practiſe of the Ceremonies ouerthrow faith & a good conſcience, and let it be conſidered how farre this will ſtretch, euen to the Apoſtles, and all Churches and faithfull teachers ſince the time of Chriſt.

Obiect. Many of the things alleadged touch not our cauſe, they might hauehave beene ſpared.

Anſw. Though ſome things concerne not the peculiar cauſe of the Miniſters depriued: yet all which I hauehave alleadged, do touch the queſtion propoſed, which eueryevery intelligent diſputant is to follow and intend, neither is there any thing that I know propoſed, which may not ſerue as a true medius terminus, or pregnant argument tending directly to proue this concluſion: that all true Churches & teachers ſince the Apoſtles▪ did teach & practiſe conformitie, rather then they would ſuffer depriuation or ſeperation from the Church. But if any among ſo many things as are alleadged bee impertinent, let it bee ſhewed and put out with my good liking: p. 208there is enough beſides which is without all controuerſie to the purpoſe.

Obiect. The times are different, there may bee a matter fundamentall now, which was not then; in reſpect of the moſt cleere manifeſtation of the trueth thereof now, which was not then. Therefore their iudgement (though pure) is no rule for vsus to follow now: It is no true arguing; They thus iudged, therefore we muſt thus iudge of theſe Ceremonies, as for example, It was a trueth that Chriſt ſhould be borne at Bethleem, and of the Virgin Mary, this trueth being fundamentall now, was not ſo before Chriſt was borne and manifeſted. Cornelius was a faithfull man before hee belieued in Chriſt the ſonne of the Virgin Mary: yet hee had the faith of the Meſſias in generall, ſufficient to his ſaluation; but after it was reuealed by the Apoſtles to him, euen this was alſo fundamentall.

Anſw. This obiection containeth a trueth; but it faileth in the application therof vntounto the caſe in queſtion. For there muſt bee proued theſe two points, that this obiection may bee firme: Firſt, that the vſe of theſe Ceremones is growne to be a matter fundamentall, which ſometimes it was not, and the ſound reaſons thereof muſt be alleadged, which as yet they are not: it is not knowen as yet by any light that euer I preceaued or heard of, how theſe Ceremonies here queſtioned ſhould be rather fundamentall now then before, when by the ſame reaſons they were oppoſed as they are now: Secondly, that the refuſall of the Ceremonies queſtioned, bee a matter of that waight and nature, with the inſtance brought of belieuing in Chriſt the ſonne of the Virgin Mary, betweene which I confeſſe there ſeemeth to me to be ſo great and ſo reall a difference, as that I ſuppoſe it to be brought in quite beſides the point: When theſe two points bee ſolued, I will anſwere as occaſion is offered further.

Obiect. You hauehave omitted ſome things in this your argument or reaſon, whereunto wee muſt alſo conforme: Beſides conformitie is not ſufficient, wee ſhall be required to ſubſcribe, p. 209and further, theſe our ceremonies are nowe farre more ſtrictly enioyned and impoſed, then euer before.

Anſw. The queſtion is, of what in this caſe we may lawfully conforme vntounto; if there be any thing beſides which may be proued ſimply vnlawful euen in this caſe of depriuatiō, to conforme vntounto, let it be ſoundly diſcouered, wiſely and zealouſly eſchewed, and a reformation humbly laboured vntounto by authoritie, or prayed for to God. In the meane time, let vsus conſider whether in this caſe our conſciences be not tied to conforme, to redeeme the libertie of the Miniſterie. Touching the vrging or preſſing of theſe Ceremonies, it is true, they hauehave been impoſed with ſome vehemencie, yet they are not impoſed (nor pretended ſo to bee) vponupon the conſcience, as the worſhips of God, or needfull to ſaluation, but they are taught as variable and free things, and in their nature indifferent but as they are commanded by authoritie, and ſo impoſed.

Obiect. The force of your argument lieth in this, that rather then we ſhould ſuffer depriuation, we ſhould receiue and vſe Ceremonies as inconuenient, hurtfull and ſcandalous, as were the Iewiſh Ceremonies, and thoſe which the fathers imbraced: but the Iewiſh Ceremonies were holden neceſſary to ſaluation, Act. 15. 1, 3. and the Ceremonies of the Fathers were holden operatiue: your argument ergo concludeth a neceſſitie of receiuing Ceremonies, though euen holden neceſſary and operatiue, rather then to ſuffer depriuation for refuſing ſuch. Thus may wee alſo diſpute for all other Popiſh Ceremonies, as for the ſhauen Crowne, Exorciſme, White garment in Baptiſme, Soot, Spittle, Creame, holy Water.

Anſw. 1. My argument concludeth onelyonly for conforming to the Ceremonies which are preſcribed in the caſe of depriuation, and for none other, from an argument drawen from the conſent of all true Churches, and faithfull teachers of all ages and places, which did rather conforme to more and worſe then ours are pretended to bee: argumento à maiori p. 210ad minus ducto; which holdeth ſtrongly for conforming to our Ceremonies, which are farre more tolerable, and leſſe inconuenient and burdenſome then theirs. Neither can my argument bee farther drawen or racked then I vrge it.

2. Touching the Iewiſh Ceremonies, they were holden neceſſary to ſaluation by refractary Iewes, not by the Apoſtles and the godly well grounded Chriſtians. So our Ceremonies are holden by the Papiſts, but not by vsus, therefore that inſtance concerneth vsus no more thē the Apoſtles, and the faithfull of thoſe times.

3. Touching the Ceremonies of the Primitiue Fathers, they were alſo holden operatiue, not by the ſounder Fathers themſelues (as Zepperus, Perkins, and others doe alleadge for them) but by others, which did ſo accidentally, as the ſigne of the Croſſe was not holden operatiue by the Orthodoxall Fathers of it ſelfe opere operato, but they held their faith operatiue, which was exerciſed in them when they exerciſed that ſigne. OnelyOnly Tertullian is cited to holde that ſigne operatiue, but hee is noted thereby, as by many other his ſingularities, to hauehave beene a Montaniſt, who thus vſed the ſigne, & other Ceremonies, as operatiue in themſelues: and in like ſort our preſcribed Ceremonies are holden operatiue in themſelues, opere operato, by the Papiſt, but not by vsus: Therefore neither doth this part of the obiection concerne our Church or this my argument, who vtterly and profeſſedly diſclaime theſe things.

4. For the Popiſh Ceremonies alleadged, ſuch as ſhauen Crowne, holy Water, Creame, Spittle, Salt, &c. they are not mentioned in this my argument, and there may bee other waighty cauſes alleadged wherefore wee may except againſt them iuſtly. The Lutherans vſe ſome of them, and we all account of them as of true Churches: And it is not poſſible for the true Church to put operation in them, or opinion of neceſſitie, or Gods worſhip or merit in the deed doing, for that this tendeth to ouerthrow the foundation, p. 211and ſo to nullifie the Church: But excluding theſe groſſe apprehenſions of thoſe Ceremonies, it might proue a matter very queſtionable, whether in caſe of neceſſity, as of depriuation of miniſtery and ouerthrow of the Church, they ought not to be vſed, euen by this my argument. Howbeit till queſtion bee made and iuſtly mooued vponupon theſe points, we will omit further diſputation, becauſe it is a matter meerely needleſſe and vnprofitable. And ſo much of this matter.

Deo ſoli ſit Gloria.