Answer to John De Albines, Answer to discourse · Chapter 31
The XXXI. Chapter.
YOuaBut not alone fo… eſpecially we comfort our ſelues in the goodneſſe of the cauſe. do alleage the inuincible patience of your holy Martyrs in times paſt, for at this preſent, if it pleaſed God that you did martyrizate no more ſoules with your falſe preaching, then there are bodies that ſuffer for your doctrine, your ſect were nothing ſo dangerous as it is. You glorie in your Martyrs of times paſt, which hauehave ſealed with their owne bloud the doctrine of that holie Cittie Geneua. But in this ye are much deceaued, for S. Iohn Chryſoſtome in his firſt oration againſt the Iewes doeth ſay, that the paine doeth not make the Martyr, but the cauſe: for otherwiſe the theeues & murderers might claime the like title, although they ſuffer for another cauſe: for we honour and louelove the martyrs (ſaieth he) not for the tormēts that they doe ſuffer, but for that it is for Chriſt, & that they ſuffer for Iuſtice.bThere is no ſuch thing there, turn the place who liſt, yet I de… not, but in ſome other place he may write ſo, but no wher againſt ſuch as we, but rather againſt ſuch as cōmo…ly your fellowes be here in England, who dying for t e…ſ…n, yet you wil canonize for holy Martyrs. And S. Auguſtine in his firſt booke contra Epiſtolam Parmeni…ni, Cap. ſeptimo, writing againſt ſome of your fellowes that preſumed to be Martyrs, he doeth ſay, that eueryevery one is not a Martyr that is puniſhed by the Emperour, or by the king for matters of Religion, otherwiſe (ſaieth he) the Deuils might attribute vntounto thēſelues the glorie of martyrdome, becauſe they ſuffered perſecution at the Chriſtian Emperours hands, when throughout the worlde, their Idoles were pulled downe, and they caſt out, and thoſe that did offer ſacrifice vntounto thē grieuouſly puniſhed: then (ſaieth he) the iuſtice is not certaine through the p…ſſion, or for hauing ſuffered death: but the death and paſſion is glorious, when it is for the ſuſtaining of the true faith. And therefore (ſaieth he) our ſauiour, becauſe he would not hauehave the ſimple deceiued vnderunder this colour of trueth, he did not onelyonly ſay: bleſſed are thoſe that ſuffer (but hee added) for iuſtice. But this can in no wiſe be attributed vntounto thoſe heretiques that ſuffer, to ſeperate the vnion and concorde of the Catholique church.cIn that booke it appears, theſe Donatiſts did indeed complaine and yet brag of their perſecutiōs but thus much I finde not there teſtified againſt them, or of thē. In his booke de haereſibus ad quod vult Deum he writeth to this effect of them. And in his booke de vnitate Eccleſiae, contra Epiſtolam Petiliani, he doeth write, that the Donatiſts, which were a ſect of heretiques that raigned in his time, to confirme their doctrine, they did not attende, that others ſhould put them to death, but they did caſt them ſelues downe from high places: others did burne themſelues in the fire, to be honoured after their death as Martyrs: and that is more, they did threaten men, if they would not kill them.dHe writes in that epiſtle no ſuch thing, you had the worſt lucke in quoting of your teſtimonies that euer had a…y, for 3. for one you cite wr…ng. S. Cyprian in like maner doeth write in the firſt booke of his Epiſtles, in the firſt Epiſtle, that though an heretique ſuffer death for Chriſt, that doeth not confirme him as a Martyr, but that his death is the very puniſhment of his errour…, and that he cannot go to heauen, which is the manſion of the humble: for ſeeing that he doeth ſeperate himſelfe frō the houſe of peace, which is the church (yee know well of what church he doeth ſpeake) that he cannot be receaued into heauē, &c. All thoſe that hauehave writen the hiſtories of the Bohemiās doe ſay, that in the time ofeZiſch… was a famou… ſouldier & captain, but miniſter he was none. one Ziſcha a martial miniſter of the hereſie of the Heborits, or Huſsites, there were a certaine ſect of heretiques called Adamites like vntounto the olde hereſie of the Nicholaites: for they did ſaie, as theſe doe, that mens wiues ſhould bee common, and they vvent all naked, eueryevery one taking the woman hee liked beſt, whom hee did carie vntounto their miniſter, and before him hee did ſaie, the holie ghoſt doeth inſpire me to lie with this perſon: then the ſaied reuerent father did giuegive him his bleſsing: ſaying, Increaſe and multiplie, and ſo they went awaie. This aboue named Ziſcha, although hee had done a number of wicked deedes, yet hee determined to aboliſh and take awaie this ſect,fAnd therefore popiſh traytours that are executed amongſt v… for high treaſon, though they ſeeme to take their death neuer ſo patiently, we lawfully coū … & call t…aitours, though you …anonize them for Saints. and ſo he cauſed two women to be burnt for this abhomination, the which two (notwithſtanding the torment of the fire) did ſing and giuegive thankes to God, for that it had pleaſed him, to permit them to die for ſo holy & ſo iuſt a quarrell. Did not Michael Seruet, who was once maſter Caluins dearling, rather deſire to ſuffer at Geneua, then he would confeſſe, that Chriſt was God? and yet notwithſtanding his great patience (or to ſaie the trueth, diuiliſh obſtinacy) cannot be ſufficient to make him a Martyr, nor to perſwade you, to beleeue his doctrine.gWhat need all theſe ſeing none of vsus euer ſtande vponupon the bare ſufferings of mē, no more then you? you ſhould yet hauehave named the places, where theſe things are writen, and not thus hauehave ſent vsus to ſeeke we cannot tell where. There is a certaine miniſter of the Lutherans called Ioachim Weſtphall, who in a worke of his doeth mocke at Caluin, who did vaunt, that within theſe fiue years aboue an hundred had ſuffered death, to ſuſtaine the Goſpell of Geneua: and he doeth anſwere him at large, prouing that the ſect and doctrine of the ſaied place, ought not to bee approued for the multitude of falſe martyrs: for the Anabaptiſts whō he doeth iuſtly cōdēne, hauehave had of their ſect a great many more, for in leſſe thē three years there hauehave ſuffered a great number more then euer there did ſuffer of Caluiniſts in fifteene. And to conclude this matter, the ſaied Weſtphal doeth ſay, that the deuill hath his Martyrs (euen as well as God) with whom like a good ſergeant he doeth march giuing the vaūtward vntounto the martyrs of the Caluiniſts, that hauehave ſuffered at Geneua. hThe more to blame are they if they ſhould ſay ſo, but though heat of contentiō cauſed Weſtphalꝰ to write ſo bitterly, I thinke very few will ioyne with him in this iudgemēt: ſure I am they whom you cal Caluiniſts doe not iudge ſo of them, becauſe of that 1. Co. …. v. 15So that if one demaund of the Lutherans, whither go thoſe that die in the Religion of Caluin, of Beza, or of the Anabaptiſts? they ſaie, to the Diuell. And if one demande of the Caluiniſts in like maner, whither go the Anabaptiſts and the Lutherans? they ſaie likewiſe, to the Diuell. And who would put the like queſtion to the Anabaptiſts, I am aſſured they would ſaie at the others, to the Diuell. For my part I beleeue you, I aſſure you, all three.iThis argueth a moſt diueliſh and profane ſpirit in the writer. And ſeeing that yee agree ſo well, that one ſerue for an others harbenger, we were very fooles, if wee ſhould ſtay your paſſage, but let you go all to the Diuell for company, for I thinke if you were all gone, our debates would ceaſe, and hell would be ſo full, that the deuill would long for no more.
The XXXI. Chapter.
YOu neede not to tell vsus, that Auguſtine and Chryſoſtome hauehave taught, that it is not the death, but the cauſe, that maketh a martyr. For we know that to be a moſt certaine trueth, and the generall doctrine of all good writers both olde and new: and therefore you might hauehave ſpared your paines beſtowed in the proofe of this. And therefore moſt willingly wee acknowledge (as Chriſt hath taught vsus) that onelyonly they are bleſſed martyrs, that ſuffer for righteouſnes ſake. Mat. 5. and none to be martyrs, howe patientlie ſoeuer they ſeeme to ſuffer their deathes, that by for an il cauſe, either in life or doctrine. And yet we are not ignorant, that many hauehave died in lewde, and for lewd opinions, who yet hauehave ſeemed to die willingly and cherefully: and therefore wee deny not, but that it may be true, that ſome ſuch wicked women of that beaſtlie hereſie of the Adamites, were put to death in Ziſchaes time, in Bohemia, & died, as you write: and that it is poſſible, that ſuch filthy heretiques, as Seruetus was, may ſhewe themſelues ſtout in dying. But what is all this to proue, that our martyrs hauehave broken the vnion of the Catholique Church, or that they died as heretiques for hereſie? Before you can ſay any thing to the purpoſe, either to proue them no true martyrs, or to blemiſh their patience, you ſhould hauehave proued, that their cauſe and religion, for which they died, was not the ſound Chriſtian trueth and faith: but that you wil neuer bee able to doe. And therefore both al this, and what els you hauehave noted (though falſely, for there is no ſuch thing, in either of theſe two places) out of Auguſtine contra Epiſtolam Petiliani, of the Donatiſtes forwardneſſe to die, and out of Cyprians firſt booke of Epiſtles, falleth downe to the ground as needles beſides the queſtiō. For whatſoeuer they there ſpake, they ſpake it of heretickes, & therfore it hath no force againſt vsus, vntil you can proue vsus ſo; in alleadging Cypriās teſtimony by the way of parētheſis, you ſay, we know of what Church hee ſpake, when hee ſayed, the heretiques that hee wrote of, could not bee ſaued, becauſe they ſeparated themſelues from the Church, the houſe of peace. Indeed wee knowe, that hee ment not your Church, which is a bloudie houſe, a houſe of warre, & cōtentiō: a houſe of error, & ſuperſtitiō, but the Church of Chriſt that was in his time, to wt yours is not ſo like, as a drunken man is to a ſober & diſcreet man: or a whore vntounto an honeſt matrone: for there is likelihood in ſubſtāce, though not in quality, & yours is vnlike to the Church then in both. Ziſcha you cal a martial miniſter of the Heborites, or Huſſites: you would ſay, or (at leaſt I am ſure) you ſhould ſay, a noble martiall Captaine: for miniſter he was none of them, whom their malitious enimies nickenamed Thaborites, or Huſſites: for ſo they were called, & not as you call them. At your pleaſure you call Michael Seruet, Caluins dearling, but you cānot proue, that he was euer in any ſuch accoūt wt Caluin, why you ſhould tearme him ſo. But yet if he had beene ſo, thorow his cunning in diſſembling his hereſie for a time, the more commendation was it to Caluin, that when he proued an obſtinate heretique, hee was ſo earneſt and zealous in the cauſe of his God, that all former affection ſet a part, he furthered his due puniſhment, as he did. And for al your ſpeech, of his willingnes to die at Geneua, and great patience in dying, I cannot read, but that he ſhunned death there, as much as he could, keeping or holding ſtill his hereſie, and that thouſands hauehave died on the gallowes for murder, felonie, and treaſon, with as great ſhew of courage and patience, as he. But to let theſe things paſſe, and to returne againe to your principall drifte in this, which was (as you ſhewe in the beginning of it) to proue, that neither our vocation, nor religion could get any credit by the inuincible patience of our holy martyrs; what hath bene ſaied as yet to proue this? Your onelyonly argument hitherto hath beene this, The cauſe, that a man dyeth for, muſt bee good: and hee muſt bee no heretique: many heretiques hauehave dyed with great ſhew of patience: Ergo &c. This argument is ſtarke naught: for al theſe things in your antecedent may be graunted, and yet of al them togither your concluſion followeth not. Theſe thinges which are not at al in queſtion you hauehave proued; but this that indeed ſhould hauehave giuē life to your argument, that ours died in, and for an ill cauſe, & were heretiques (which is indeede the thing onelyonly in queſtion) like a wiſe man (becauſe you could not proue it) you let alone. But therfore you ſhall be contented (for al your miſerable crauing of it to bee granted you) to be denied both it and your concluſion, which, without it you can neuer come vntounto. You will therefore proue (as you make your reader beleeue) that our Martyrs were ſuch, as died in an ill cauſe as heretiques, and therefore went to hel. But what be your proofes? Ioachim Weſtphalus a Lutheran, in a worke of his (but it ſeemeth either you could not, or would not tel vsus in what worke, for ſome politique reaſon you had doubtles) mocked at Caluin, for vaūting (but where he made this vaunt, or where we may finde it, you tel vsus not) that within fiue yeares aboue an hundred had died for the religion of Geneua, prouing vntounto him, that ſeeing there had beene far moe of the Anabaptiſtes put to death in leſſe ſpace, and that the Deuill had his Martyrs: his religion was no whit confirmed or countenanced by his Martyrs: but they might for all his bragge, be in the vauntgard of the Deuils martyrs. What a miſerable argument is this? A contentious man in the heat of his contention ſaied thus to diſgrace his aduerſary and his ſide, therefore therupon it ſhall follow, that it was well and truely ſaied of him. I thinke you will grāt me, that Epiphanius and Chryſoſtome were good men both, yet in heat of contention one againſt another, Epiphanius burſt out into ſuch choler, as he ſaied, that he hoped the other ſhould neuer die biſhop: to whō Chryſoſtōe anſwered as angerly again, that he truſted the other ſhould neuer returne aliue into his own cuntrey of Cypres: & infinite be the examples, whereby we may ſee, that men otherwiſe hauehave in heate of contention marueylouſly ouerſhot themſelues one againſt another. And therefore God forbid, that vponupon eueryevery ſpeach of diſgrace vttered in ſuch a caſe by one againſt another, ſhould by and by a firme argument be gathered, that it is euen ſo, as the one hath ſaied of the other.
But you will ſay, you ſtād not ſo much vpō his ſpeach againſt Caluins Martyrs, as vpō that, that there were mo of the Anabaptiſts, that had died in a ſhorter ſpace, then he talked of, and that otherwiſe, the deuil hath had his martyrs, which we cānot deny. Hereupon indeed it followeth, that an argument drawen to iuſtifie an opinion, and the followers of it, from the bare death, and ſhew of patience of them that hold it, is not good: but ſo did neuer any of vsus reaſon. For firſt we labour to proue, the cauſe good, and that done, then in the patience of ſuch, as hauehave died in ſo good cauſe, togither wt the cauſe, we take comfort. And yet in trueth, we are ſure, we may ſpeak it to the glory of God, there were neuer either ſo many, or any, that ſo patiently died for any other opinion, or opinions whatſoeuer, as firſt and laſt died for the teſtimony of our religion. For we account all them ours, that hauehave from the beginning died for the glorious cauſe of the Goſpell of Ieſus Chriſt, and in that we are able by the Scriptures, to proue our religion to be the ſame, we are ſure, we are not deceiued in our account. In the concluſion of this Chapter, to ſhew your ſelfe to bee not onelyonly one that dare write any thing how groſſe a lie ſoeuer it be, but as malitious in your iudgement, as euer was any. Firſt, you ſet downe, not onelyonly, that the Anabaptiſts condemne thē that die in Luther, & Caluins religion to hell (which is likely inough, becauſe they were franticke heretiques, & hauehave denied the foundation) but alſo the Lutherans and Caluiniſts will & doe giuegive that iudgement one of another: and yet I am ſure, you are not able truely to ſay, that euer any of Caluins iudgement ſaied, or wrote ſo. Secondly, though your owne iudgement be ſhort, yet ſo it is ſet downe, that you ſhew that you beleeue that all the three ſorts go thither? And ſuch care & compaſſion your catholique heart had of it, whē you had done, that you ieſt at it, accounting your ſelues fooles, if you ſhould ſtay their paſſage thither. For if we were al gone for company, you thinke you ſhould be at quiet (you ſay) & hel would be ſo full, that the deuil would long for no more companie. Is this your popiſh diuinity, to make ſport at the damnation of men? And hold you this for a principle, that it is folly to ſtay men from running togither to hel? Indeed it may be. For I hauehave read, that it is a rule amongſt you, that, if your Pope lead headlong with him multitudes by heapes to hell, yet no man may be ſo hardie, as to ſay vntounto him, why doeſt thou ſo? Diſtinct. 40. Cap. Si Papa: But howſoeuer you account this diuinity, certaine I am, you wil finde it, that in no two things more, the deuils ſhew themſelues deuils, then in theſe, In laughing and reioicing in the damnation of the ſoules of men; and in letting them go freely for company to hell, without ſtoppage, as many as will. Truely, truely, God muſt take from you this profane and deuiliſh ſpirit of yours, and giuegive you grace to repent of it, or els you may be ſure, how many ſoeuer die and go to hel before you, hell wil long for you, and you ſhal finde place, and roome inough there, I warrant you.