Answer to John De Albines, Answer to discourse · Chapter 17
The XVII. Chapter.
ANy mā may eaſily perceiue by this diſcourſe, that you hauehave no great reaſon, in ſaying that that you ſaie, and much leſſe to doe that that you preach, I meane, to begin the reformation of the church by the waie of force, the which is a thing contrarie to all lawes diuine and humane, which defende*Cod. vt nemo in ſuâ cauſâ jud. thataThis is your dealing flat, for your Pope is the party many waies moſt iuſtly charged by vsus, & yet he wil be the ſupreme iudge in his owne cauſe. one ſhould bee Iudge in his owne cauſe: and you will not onelie be a Iudge, but a partie, reſembling in this him that gaue the blowe to Chriſt, vntounto whom the anſwere was made,*b Job. 15. bWel hit again, 15. for 18.If we hauehave done ill,cThis alwaies we are ready to doe. proue it before the Iudge, ſeeing that you are our accuſers. If you ſaie, that God hath giuen you power, to knowe, to iudge, and to exempt, that is to ſaie, to driue vsus out of our poſſeſſion, and to cauſe the people to forſake that Religion, which they hauehave maintaineddIt is a ſhame to repeate this bragge ſo often, and neuer to go about in all your booke, once to proue it, which you know is the maine queſtion. theſe 1500. yeares & vpwards, ſhew vsus your commiſſion, with as ſure a warrant, as ſo great a matter doeth require, ſeeing that you ſaie, that ye are ſent extraordinarilie, as Moſes was, to redeem the childrē of Iſraell out of the captiuity of Egypt, that is to ſay, according vntounto your interpretatiō, the children of God, & the true faithful, out of the falſe Religion of the Papiſts, of that which the Pope, Antichriſt, & worſe thē Pharao, is the head & maſter. Thus ye vſe to expoūd & moralizate the figures of the olde Teſtament, in fauour of the Catholicke Church: yet is it ſo, that when God ſpake vntounto you about ſo zealous a thing as this, yee forgate one thing, that doeth hinder greatlie your commiſſion. You ſhould hauehave ſhewed God, that the commiſsion which he gaue you, was like to breede no leſſe miſchiefe amongſt the Papiſts, thē Moſes did amōg the Aegyptians. For IeAnd you know we hauehave iuſt cauſe, ſo to thinke and ſay. am ſure (if anie to trie you, would take your oath) that you would ſweare, that the Pope is as ill as Pharao, and we as hard hearted as the Aegyptians. Therefore, why did yee not demande of him, a rodde to conuert into a ſerpent, and to paſſe drie foote ouer the redde Sea?fOur vocation is ordinary, the meſſage we hauehave olde and ancient, ſufficiently confirmed by all the miracles cronicled in the Scriptures, and therefore this was needeleſſe. Why did yee not require at his hande, that it might pleaſe him to authorize his worde preached by your miniſters with ſignes, miracles and tokens, as he did, when hee ſent your fellowes the Apoſtles: ſeeing that you are Prophets, how commeth it to paſſe, that you hauehave not foreſeene, that wee would not beleeue you: for who is hee (although he were a Deuill) that could not ſaie as much? But we hauehave one diſauowe, which God hath giuen to manie, which doe report, that they doe come from him, which doeth greatlie ouerthrowe the authoritie of your commiſsion.gTheſe & many moe ſuch like, doe ſo fitly paint your Prelates, & therefore it is, that we ſhun thē as we doe. He doeth ſaie in the 14. of Hieremie, the Prophets preach falſely in my name, I hauehave not ſent them, I hauehave not commaunded them, nor I hauehave not ſpoken vntounto them: but they prophecie vntounto you falſe viſiōs, and naughty diuinations, to deceaue your heartes. And likewiſe in the 27. Chapter. I hauehave not ſent them (ſaieth the Lord God) & they prophecie in my name falſely, to the intēt I ſhould forſake you, and that aſwell you, as your prophets ſhould periſh. Item in the 29. Let not your Prophets ſeduce you, that are amongſt you, nor your ſouthſaiers, and doe not marke the dreames that yee dreame, for they doe prophecie falſely vntounto you in my name, ſeeing that I hauehave not ſent thē, ſaieth the Lord. &c. So that, although it were true, that God hath ſent you (as it is falſe) we might with a iuſt cauſe, pretend an excuſe of ignorance, and to ſaie with great aſſurance that, that*Gen 20. Abimilech ſaied vntounto God,gThat you cannot, for you hauehave the Scriptures of the old and new Teſtament, if you had grace, to preſerue you frō ſuch blindnes as yee ſhew, in refuſing our doctrine, which is ſo warranted as it is there. where hee threatned, that he would kill him, becauſe he kept Abrahams wife. O Lord God (ſaied he) would you kill a poore ſimple nation? Shall it be ſaied, that we beleeue all thoſe, that faine to come in your name? hauehave not you commāded vsus by the Apoſtle,*1. Ioh. 1. hAnd therefore we are ſo bold as to try your popiſh ſpirit, by the ſpirit that ſpeaketh in the Scriptures.That we ſhould not beleeue eueryevery ſpirit: and that the Angell of darknes doeth tranſforme himſelfe into an Angell of light? HaueHave not you commanded to bee writen, that we ſhould beware which way we take, and that ſuch a waie doeth ſeeme good, the which notwithſtanding doeth leade vntounto damnation and perdition. If anie, ſaying that he is our Princes ſeruant,iBut we hauehave both, and vnleſſe wee can proue we hauehave, beleeue vsus not ſhould come to demande a ſumme of monie in his maſters name, and that hee had neither his hand nor his ſeale to warrant his demaund, would not wee ſend him awaie like a falſe merchant, fearing that he would deceaue vsus? then with greater reaſon, ought we to feare the committing of our faith, & the hope of our ſaluation into their hands, whom we know not, nor that cannot ſhew anie miracles,kYou were deceaued, theſe words be not there. to cōfirme their preaching, as the Apoſtles did.*k Mat. 28. Qui confirmabant ſermonem, ſequentibus ſignis. That is, which did confirme their preaching, with ſignes or miracles following:lBecauſe there is not like reaſō and cauſe, as thē. whi… doe not they ſay, as he ſaied, whoſe ſucceſſours they profeſſe to be, the ſignes of my commiſsion & Apoſtleſhip hauehave beene accompliſhed among you, with ſignes and miracles. 2. Cor. 12.
The XVII. Chapter.
YOu proceede, charging vsus to hauehave begon reformation by force, but as yet you hauehave not proued it. Vpō the beginning thereof, in theſe later daies, or not long after, wee graunt ſome ſtirres did ariſe in Germanie, France and other places, but therein it hath fallen out no otherwiſe with the renuing and reuiuing the Goſpell of Chriſt, then it fell out with the Apoſtles when they beganne firſt to preach it. For we reade Act. 17.19. that then ſtirres and tumults there were vſually rayſed vp, by the enemies thereof to hinder the courſe thereof. And as long as it is not to bee lookt for, but that alwaies it will hauehave ſome enemies, what elſe can be hoped for, but when it ſpringeth & beginneth to floriſh there wil be ſome ſtirres and contentions betwixt, the frendes and enemies thereof? But as the Apoſtles when for theſe ſtirs ſake they were charged to be ſeditious perſons, might truely cleare them ſelues, in that not they, nor the profeſſours of the Goſpell were at anie time the authours thereof, but rather the enemies thereof: ſo may wee in this ſame caſe alſo doe. For either they hauehave begun of your ſelues, who hauehave thought by force to ſtoppe the courſe of the Goſpell, or if any hauehave begon by others, as ſome did in Germanie by the Anabaptiſtes, our men hauehave beene the forwardeſt, by their writings and otherwiſe, to condemne their doings therein. And yet though it ſhould hauehave fallen out, or it may bee proued that in ſome one place or other there hauehave beene ſince this late detection of Popiſh enormities, ſome diſorderly tumults, and in the ſame ſome vnlawfull force vſed, wherewith ſome indiſcreete perſons of our ſide, may iuſtly bee charged, as long as it is a thing which we neither like, allow, nor iuſtify in them, what reaſon is there, that that ſhould be obiected as matter of ſufficient diſgrace to all the reſt of vsus, and to our Religion alſo? Is it impoſſible for ſuch thinges, to fall out ſometimes amongſt them that profeſſe Gods trueth, euen in well ordered common weales? Then truely of al men in the world, the men of your profeſſion will bee proued to hauehave leaſt acquaintance with Gods trueth. For neuer were there more broiles, hoate contentions and force more vſed to compaſſe your wils, then hauehave beene amongſt you: eueryevery ſeuerall order of Religious men, eueryevery abbey, eueryevery Cathedrall Church (if the ſtories were ſearched) miniſters vntounto vsus infinite demonſtration, that there hath nothing beene more vſuall amongſt you. O the lamentable and moſt ſauage cruell dealing that hath beene vſed with great approbation by men of your ſide, to bring the poore Indians by force in ſubiection vntounto you. And what extreame force and crueltie hath beene vſed of late yeares, to ſubdue the poore Chriſtians of Cabriers Merindoll, and other places thereabout, and to roote out the profeſſours of the Goſpell, and their fauourers in France? I am perſwaded yt the Turks neuer vſed more faithles, tyrannical and monſtrous dealings, then the ſtories and the euidence of the thing, declares you hauehave vſed againſt theſe. And therefore it being ſo vſuall a thing with you, as it is, to promote your Religion by force, of all men you are the vnfitteſt to charge others with that, as with a fault, which you account ſo laudable in your ſelues. And yet as though you had ſaied ſo much againſt vsus for this, as that thereupon it muſt needs appeare to eueryevery man, that we hauehave neither reaſon of our ſaying or doing, you further charge vsus, that herein (in ſeeking namely the reformation of your Church) we hauehave taken vponupon vsus, cōtrary to all laws both diuine and humane, being alſo a party, to be our owne iudge; wherein you ſay vntruely of vsus, for we alwaies hauehave beene contented, to ſubmit both our ſayings and doings, to the iudgement of the Lord himſelfe, ſpeaking vntounto vsus in the writen word, and by the ſame we hauehave had our ſayings and doings often examined, and tried to be ſound and lawfull in nationall and prouinciall Synodes, before we hauehave attempted the reformation you ſpeake of. And ſecondly, herein you charge vsus as you did before, with that which you your ſelues are openly guilty of. For though your Pope be the ſpeciall party accuſed by vsus, yet in all matters in queſtion betwixt you and vsus, you wil hauehave him to be the ſupreme iudge, and ſo the queſtiō being betwixt you & vsus, whither you be the church or we, and whither you hold the trueth or we, no other triall will you admit, but that we muſt be iudged by him, whither it be ſo or no. Wherein you deale, as if the felon at the bar, ſhould refuſe all other triall, but to be tried by the principall in that felony, whither he be guilty or no. Now wheras yet in this our dealing, you would reſemble vsus to him, that gaue Chriſt a blow &c. Your errour is manifold, & therein it ſeemeth either your negligence was much, or that your wits were benūmed. For where the ſtory you allude vntounto is. Ioh. 18. it is quoted in your booke Iohn. 15. & neither doe you hit of Chriſts words, in rehearſing the anſwere to him that ſmote him, nor yet is there any reaſon or ſimilitude made to appeare, betwixt our dealing in ſeeking to reform your Church, & that fellow. Chriſts anſwer was this, if I hauehave euill ſpoken, beare witneſſe if the euill, but if I hauehave well ſpoken, why ſmiteſt thou me? And you ſet downe his anſwere thus, if we hauehave done il, proue it before the iudge, ſeeing that you are our accuſers: & as for the reſemblance betwixt him that ſmote Chriſt and vsus, you ſhew not wherein it is, neither can I geſſe wherein you ment it. But indeed your dealing with vsus conſidered, he carieth a liuely reſemblance of a number of you, whoſe property it is, to bring vsus for our holy profeſſion before your high prieſt, and his chaplaines, and then if we chance to anſwere boldly for our own defence as Chriſt did (though neuer ſo directly to the purpoſe) to checke vsus, and ſtrike vsus, as he did our ſauiour, for your great prelates may not ſo be anſwered. But perhaps you wil ſay, that the words that you ſet downe, containe your anſwere to vsus, when we checke you for your doings: why then ſet you them downe, as the anſwere made by Chriſt to him that ſmote him? And if the words be taken as your anſwere to vsus (meaning therein ſuch a iudge, as either the Pope or one of his ſworne men) that we ſhould be drawen before ſuch iudges by your owne law here alleaged, is againſt reaſon, for they can be no competent iudges, becauſe they themſelues are principall parties. Our accuſation of you we are alwaies ready to proue, before the Lord of heauen and earth, and before any other indifferent iudges, by ſuch deponents and witneſſes, as will not bee corrupted either by you or vsus, namely by the prophets and Apoſtles ſpeaking without all partiality, in the Canonical ſcriptures. Exemption from this iudgement we neuer ſought nor will, and if your religion flye this kinde of triall and iudgement, God hath giuen vsus power euen thereby to iudge, that you are ſuch as ought to be driuen from poſſeſſion of ſuch a corrupt religion, that dare not ſhew the face in this court of iudgment, becauſe then it knoweth, it ſhould bee foyled. But yet to holde your Clyents in ſome lyking of your religion, you once againe confidently bragge, that it is of one thouſand fiue hundred yeares continuance and vpwards, and therefore you require vsus that would diſſwade you therefrom, to ſhew our commiſſion ſealed and confirmed, as ſo great a matter doeth require, and as Moſes his was, by miracles: which in this caſe to be as neceſſary for vsus, as it was for him, you ſtriue to proue in the reſt of this Chapter, and that otherwiſe you are not to beleeue vsus. Wherefore becauſe all this you require at our handes, and thinke you may doe it ſtil only vponupon this ſuppoſition, that your religion is thus ancient, as you bragge. Firſt, let vsus conſider of that point, and then proceede to the reſt which you infer thereupon. Herein, that which I hauehave writen already both in the later ende of the preface and in my anſwere to your 4 Chapter, doeth ſufficiētly diſcouer the ſhameles follie and vanity of this your brag: howbeit becauſe I perceiue what you lacke in trueth in this matter, your purpoſe is to make vp with the ſetting a ſtout countenance vponupon it: once againe, I will take the paines to ſtrip your Church and religiō of this viſard of antiquity, which done for al your lewd brags, I doubt not, but that both the one and the other ſhal be found a yoūgling & a new vpſtart in compariſon of that, which you pretend. Firſt therfore, to begin withal, in that the greeke Churches (which quite brake of communion with you, in the time of Gregory the 9, in the yeare 1230, which is now not aboue 360. yeares ago) hauehave not yet allowed the maſſe, to be a propitiatory ſacrifice for the quicke and dead, do miniſter no priuate maſſes either in the Church or elſe where, reſerue not after the miniſtration of this ſacrament any part thereof, nor deny the miniſtring thereof vnderunder both kindes to any communicant: in that alſo they neuer yet coulde be brought, to allow of the ſupremacy of your Pope, nor of your doctrines of tranſubſtantiation, extreame vnction, purgatory & of forbidding their miniſters the vſe of lawful mariage (in wc points now a great part of your religion conſiſts) euen thereby it may be perceiued, that none of theſe points, as they are now taught by you, were receiued for catholicke 360. years ago. For if when they brake of cō munion from you, theſe had then beene ſo accoūted and taken, doubtles they had then bene acquainted with theſe, and ſo by al likelihood, had held them, as they doe other things which wt you they had learned before, vntounto this day. I am not ignorant that not long after in Gregory the tenthes tyme, in a councell at Lyons, and after that agayne, in the Florentine councell, labour was made to bring them to cōmunion & vnion with you againe, and that in the firſt, Michael Paleologus (ſo the better to compaſſe helpe to keepe his kingdome, which with brutiſh murder he had got) and ſome other of his frends, aſſented vntounto a decree to that end; and that in the other likewiſe, Iohannes Paleologus Emperour of Conſtātinople, and the patriarch there, with ſome other greeke biſhops, amongſt whom was Beſſarion, aſſented, in ſome ſort to your Popes title and your doctrin of purgatory. But withal, good reader, I muſt tel thee, that I finde, the conſenting of the firſt, was ſo miſliked of the reſt of the biſhops of Grecia, when they came home, yt the ſtories report, that euen therefore they held them, that ſo aſſented, alwaies after, as perſons cut of from the communion of their Church, and when they died, denyed them the honour of buriall. And that likewiſe the ſame ſtories report, not onelyonly that in the later by no meanes they coulde be brought to allow of tranſubſtantiation, though there they were vrged much thereunto, but that for their yeelding in the other they were ſo reſiſted, when they came at home by one Marcus the biſhop of Epheſus, and other biſhops, that they were brought to recant and to declare merely voide al that they had done there: yea moreouer it is recorded in an anciēt regiſter, of ye church of Herford, yt in 29. articles there alſo ſet down, the greek Church differeth quite from your Romā church. And therfore hereby it ſhould ſeeme, that theſe points of popery which it hath not yet receiued, were either not at all, or at leaſt not vniuerſally receaued, before the foreſaied breach, and that therfore theſe hauehave not 400 years continuāce on their backs, which comes far ſhort of your account of 1500. years. Further euident and apparent proofes there are to make it vtterly without all queſtion, that both theſe & many other points of the Roman religion, that now is, are far yoūger then your reckoning. For before the coūcel of Cō ſtance in the yeare 1414. we finde not the miniſtering the cōmuniō in both kinds publickly forbid to the cōmon cōmunicāt. And in the councel of Baſil it was permitted againe in the year 1431. to ye Bohemiās to receiue vnderunder both kinds, & ſo there, from that day to this, many hauehave vſed to doe. Certaine it is (as it appeares in the firſt Epiſtle of Cypriā ) that in his time, wt was 260. years after chriſt, it was by him accounted abſurd to deny the cup to any communicant, & de conſecratione diſt. 2. it is recorded, that Gelaſius who was a biſhop of Rome about the yeare 500, made a flat decree to binde al men to receiue in both kinds, ſaying Either let him, that receiueth receiue both or neither, becauſe the diuiſion of one miſtery cannot bee without ſacrilege, and yet now your Popes & their councels, which you hold cannot erre, condēne it for a curſed hereſie, to holde it to be needful, that this ſacrament ſhould be receiued of al communicants in both kinds. And it appeares in the ſame diſtinction, Cap. peracta; That Pope Calixt (in the yeare 223) made a flat lawe contrary to your receiued vſe now, of your prieſts receuing al alone. For there he decrees that cōſecratiō being done, al that wil not be ſhut frō the church ſhould cōmunicate; for ſo (ſaith he) the apoſtles taught & the faſhiō thē of the Romā church was. How is it thē, that your Roman Church that now is, contrary to this ancient decree, thus grounded both vponupon the authority of the Apoſtles, & the practiſe then of that church, in this point now practiſeth the quite contrary? Trā ſubſtantiation the very life of your maſſe, your owne doctor Tonſtal in his book of ye ſacramēt, & diuers other of your frēds as I hauehave ſhewed before Cap. 11. cōfeſſe was not enacted & decreed for a catholicke truth amōgſt your ſelues, before Innocēt ye 3 time, 1215 in the Laterā coūcel, which was after the greeke church was gone from you, & ſo it was rather the decree of a particuler aſſembly, then of the Catholique Church, and therefore no marueile though the Greekes reiect this your councel and decree. Your owne ſchoole-men, Canoniſts and Croniclers, as Durand, Albertus, Gabriel Biel, Innocentius, Vrſpergenſis and others, ſhew from point to point and frō peece to peece, who inuented & deuiſed your maſſe, withall the ceremonies thereof, as alſo Polidor in his 5. booke and 9. Chapter of the inuentours of things, and Platina in the liues of the Popes, and namely, in the life of Pope Sixtus the firſt. It was ſo long a licking before it came to the ſhape it now hath, and was patched together, as it appeares in theſe and other your owne writers, by ſo many Popes ſo long diſtant one from an other in time, that it would require a good pretty long treatiſe, to ſet downe the ſeuerall ſhreds and morſelles thereof, with the authours and deuiſers of them. Which things conſidered, it is the likeſt a beggers cloake, conſiſting of an infinite ſort of patches, at ſundry times and of ſundry colours ſowed and cobled together, that can be. The maſſe now vſed in your church, commonly called S. Gregories maſſe was firſt receaued and eſtabliſhed in the time of Pope Adrian 780. years after Chriſt (at the leaſt, for others accoūt it more) as witneſſeth Durand, Nauclere, & Iacobus de voragine in the life of Gregorie the firſt, for before that, S. Ambroſe Lyturgie was much in vſe. And the laſt of theſe authours reports, that when with much a do, Adrian had got it to bee decreede in a councell, that S. Gregories maſſe ſhould be vniuerſally vſed, and Charles the Emperour had laboured both by faire and foule meanes, to cauſe the ſame decree to bee executed, and yet many would hardly be drawen from the vſe of Saint Ambroſes, one Eugenius ſeing this ſtir about it, gaue the Pope this graue aduiſe, that the bookes of both the Lyturgies ſhould be layed vponupon the altar of S. Peter, and that the Church dores ſhould carefully be ſhut and ſealed with the ſignets of ſundry Biſhops, and that then they ſhould giuegive themſelues all that night to earneſt prayer, that God by ſome euident ſigne, might ſhew which of thē he would hauehave to be vſed: whoſe counſell being in eueryevery point followed, in the next morning, when they went into the church, they found (as ſaieth the ſtory) onelyonly S. Ambroſe booke opened and lying vponupon the altar, and the leaues of the other ſcattered all ouer the church, wherevpon Adrian the Pope, like a profound interpreter of viſions, gathers that it was the Lords meaning thereby to ſhew, that S. Ambroſes Lyturgy might well be vſed vponupon his owne altar at Millan, but the other ſhould be vſed generally ouer all churches, and thus the credit of Saint Gregories maſſe was firſt eſtabliſhed. Howbeit before tranſubſtantiation came in, which was not, as I hauehave ſayed, before the yeare 1215, it was nothing the minion that it hath beene ſince. And yet euen then, it was not growen to her higheſt credit, for about fiue yeares after it was, ere that adoration or eleuation of the hoſt was decreed, for then firſt Honorius the 3 enacted that; and the hoſts holiday, commonly called Corpus Chriſti day, was not made before Pope Vrbans tyme, in the year 1260. as witneſſeth Polydor in his 6 booke and 8 Chapter of the inuentours of things. Whereupon it may euidētly appeare, that the maſſe as it is now, is but a very youngling, and one of her father the Popes youngeſt daughters. And as for latin ſeruice her cōpanion, it was firſt brought into England, by one Theodorus ſent hither by Pope Vitellian, about the yeare 657. And to proceede to other pointes of Popery (as it is well knowen) it is an other moſt principall point of your religion, to attribute vntounto the Pope that vniuerſal ſupremacy ouer al biſhops and ouer the whole Church of Chriſt, that you doe, for you hauehave made it an article vnderunder payne of damnation to be receiued, that there is no ſaluation, but vnderunder his obedience and within his communion, as it is ſet downe by Boniface the 8, in his extrauagant de maioritate & obedientiâ. And yet in the 6 Canon of the Nicene councell, holden about the yeare 330. (as ſome count) it appeares, that then the Roman biſhop had his bounds and limits preſcribed him, aſwell as the other patriarches. And the generall councell of Calcedon, and the 6. generall councell, held at Conſtantinople, determined Can. 36. that the biſhop of that ſee ſhould hauehave equall priueledges with the biſhop of old Rome, 680 yeares after Chriſt. And appeales to Rome were forbidden, vnderunder paine of excommunication, in the coū cel of Mileuitan. Cap. 22. and of Africke Cap. 92. Further yet your owne proper and late councels of Conſtance and Baſil, hauehave not long ago greatly curtolled the ſupremacy, that now the Pope chalength, for they hauehave decreed, that the authority of a general councel is ſo farre aboue him, that thereby he may be condemned and depoſed. And though now according to your Canon Diſt. 40. cap. ſi papa, your popes wil be lawles, & may not by any be controled, though be lead people headlong by heaps to hel, as it is there ſet downe: yet I read that in Pope Symachus tyme, about the yeare 500. after Chriſt, that many biſhops did accuſe him then to Theodoricus king of the Gothes, becauſe he took vponupon him to be foreign, that is, one whoſe wil ſhould be a law. And in the coūcel of Carthage the th…, there was a decree made Cap. 26. againſt ſundry ambitious … chalenged euen then, as it ſhould ſeeme, to be due vntounto the biſhop… of Rome, as that they ſhould not be called Prince of Prieſtes, … prieſt, but biſhops of the firſt ſee. And howſoeuer now Ho…ius, Belarmine and others, reckon the title of ecumenicall or vniuerſall biſhop amongſt the due and iuſt titles of the Pope, yet it is flatly ſet downe, as a thing vnlawful, and is forbid in the 99. diſtinct…, … by the iudgment of Pelagius, biſhop of Rome in the yeare 58… by Gregory the firſt his ſucceſſor. And it is wel known, that Gregory very directly and often condēned this title both in Iohn biſhop of Cōſtātinople, and in al other biſhops, himſelfe and the biſhops of ye ſee of Rome not excepted, as it is euident, in his 4 book of Epiſtles, Epi. 30, 38.88. & in his 9 book, Ep. 45. Your ſet daies of faſting you learned of Mōtanus; & your placing ſo neceſſary a point of faſting in abſtinēce frō fleſh, of the Manichees; as it appears in Aug. 74. Epiſt. wherein you are as deepe as either they or any other heretickes euer were, witnes your owne Dur. li. 6. c. de ieiuniis. For he there giueth this as a reaſon, why in faſting fleſh is rather abſtained from then fiſh, becauſe al fleſh was accurſed, and not al fiſh in the daies of Noe. And compare Auguſtines deſcription of the Manichees faſts with yours, in his 2 book de moribus Manicheorū Cap. 13. and you ſhal finde thē marueilous like. Further what holines ſoeuer you imagin to be in your forbidding your cleargy mariage, and how ancient ſoeuer you would perſwade the ſimple and ignorant; that that order is, any man may ſee that reads Auguſtines foreſaied 74 Epiſtle, & his 18 Chapter of his ſecond booke de moribus Manicheorum, as the Manichees & Tatimiſts learned to condemne mariage, as they did of the Ethnicks (as Clemens Alexandrinus thinketh they did Stromat. 3) ſo you hauehave learned this your kind of forbidding your cleargy (as you cal them) marriage of them. For there it appears, that they allowed it amongſt their ordinary hearers, & forbad it onelyonly to thoſe that ſtudied perfection, and were the choſen ones to the miniſtery amongſt them, euē as you do. But whatſoeuer either you or they ſay, or hauehave ſayed to the contrary, for the iuſtifying of this your antichriſtian deuiſe, as it is moſt cleare to any that readeth but the old teſtament, that mariage was as allowable to the Lords prieſts then, and as honourable accounted both of God and good men, ſo … leſſe clearly doeth it appeare in the new 1. Cor. 9. & 1. Tim. 3. that the lyke opinion was retained both of the honorablenes and lawfulneſſe thereof, for Apoſtles, Euangeliſts, and al other miniſters of the Lord, inſomuch that Paul in the firſt of theſe places (howſoeuer you papiſts ſeeking to hide his playne meaning, diſorder his words & read a woman, a ſiſter; for a ſiſter, a wife) ſheweth not onelyonly, how the brethren of the Lord and Cephas caried their Chriſtian wiues vp and down wt thē, but that alſo it was lawful for them ſo to due, & to take maintenance where they preached, for themſelues & theirs, & that he & Barnabas if they liſted might lawfully euen doe ſo alſo. Inſomuch that S. Paul. 1. Tim. 4, doeth flatly aduouch the denial or forbidding therof, not only as the Manichees & ſome other heretikes hauehave forbiddē it, as a filthy & vnlawful eſtate in it ſelfe (wt yet if your own report be true) was Siritius opinion diſt. 82, & is ſtil Gregory Martins, diſcou. ca. 11.) but euen as the wiſeſt of you, defend now the denying of it to your cleargy, vnderunder the pretēce of more holines in abſtaining ther frō, for a plaine doctrine of deuils. For eſpecially he ſpeaketh of thē there, that ſhould in the later daies doe ſo, in hypocriſie. And therfore the better altogither to preſerue mē frō this vanity & impiety, he pronoūces mariage to be honourable & the mariage bed, to be vndefiled, He. 13. And therfore Ignatius in his Epiſt. to the Philadelphiās ſaith flatly, yt to ſay the cōtrary cōmeth of the diuel, & vpō this groūd Dionyſius Corinthiacus labours to perſwade Pynitus the biſhop of the Gnoſiās (as we read Euſ. l. 4. ca. 22.) that he did not impoſe an vnneceſſary & too heauy a burdē of ſingle life vpō the brethrē, yea euē your own Gratian could not diſſemble or deny, but that 300. years after Chriſt, ye coūcel of Gāgra pronoūced him accurſed ye would or ſhould more refuſe ye miniſtry of one that is maried, thē of one vnmaried, & ye alſo there is an anciēt Canō fathered vpō ye Apoſtles to ye ſame end diſt. 28. Indeed it ſhould ſeem yt in Clemēt Alexādrinꝰ time wc was about 200 year after Chriſt, yt there were ſome yt thē begā to vrge ye ſingle life of ye miniſters, but he cals ſuch proud braggers & ſuch as God wil reſiſt, ſhewing thē by many exāples, reaſōs & places of ſcripture ye lawfulnes both of ye mariage of ſuch & of ye vſe therof, & yt ye denying it thē, was the plain doctrin of deuils ſpoken againſt by Paul 1. Tim. 4. Stro. 3. yet it was attempted againe, as we read it was oftē before that particulerly, ſo in the firſt councell of Nice generally, to bee eſtabliſhed, that men once entred into the miniſtery, might neither marry, nor yet accompany with their wyues maried before: but there alſo it was ſo withſtoode by one Paplinutius, that they gaue ouer that their attēpt. And conſequently, by that … … cel, that which (as ſome write) was decreed before in the … councels of Elybert and Arles to the contrary, was ſo repea… … weakned, that thence forth it was thereby left free vntounto miniſters to accompany with their lawfull wiues, as to other men. … the ſixt general councel held at Conſtantinople, whatſoeuer had any where before that beene attempted to the contrary, which was 680. yeares after Chriſt, we finde reſtraint of their mariage ſo condemned, that there it is decreed, that it ſhould be lawful for them to marrie, and to enioy the company of their wiues, and that whoſoeuer would go about to debar them thereof, ſhould be depoſed. And in making of this decree, the fathers in that councell aſſembled, doe ſay, yt therein they hauehave followed the Apoſtles ſincere Canons, and the conſtitutions of holy men (howſoeuer Epiphanius lib. 2. tom. 1. contrary to all trueth of the ſtory, writeth, that where ſuch are admitted, the ſincere Canons be not kept) and indeed this decree ſtands in force, & euer ſince vntounto this day hath bene obſerued in al ye Churches vnderunder the patriarches of Conſtantinople, Hieruſalem, Alexandria, Antioch & vnderunder Preſbyter Iohannes in AEthiopia, which are of far larger compaſſe, then euer was the Roman Church in theſe weſterne partes. Indeed it ſeemeth by an Epiſtle write… …s ſome think, by one Hulderick; as others ſuppoſe, by one Voluſianus, vntounto Pope Nicolas, to diſſwade him from reſtraining the cleargy of lawfull mariage, that Gregory and ſome others before him (as, if we may beleeue the popiſh reporters, Siricius) in the Roman ſee had beene buſie in making decrees, to reſtraine them, but yet that Gregory vponupon the finding on a time of 6000 infantes heades, in certaine ponds, repented thereof and reuoked the ſame, ſaying, it is better they ſhould marry, thē to giuegive ſuch occaſiō of murder; it ſhould ſeeme that the Epiſtle was writen rather to Nicolas the ſecond, thē to Nicolas the firſt, about the yeare 867. for then they beganne to be ſomewhat buſie about the reſtraining of them. Howbeit they were ſo reſiſted herein, that before Pope Hildebrands tyme, about the yeare 1070, or rather Pope Calixts time, in the year 1120, this reſtraint of theirs tooke no great place. For Aventinus in hiſtoria Boiorum lib. 5. ſpeaking of a coūcell of Hildebrand, ſaieth, that in that time prieſts opēly had wiues, and begat children as other Chriſtiās, as appeareth, ſaieth he, by ſundry inſtruments, wherein their wiues are ſpecified as witneſſes, and that called, honeſto vocabulo presbyteriſſae, that is, by an honeſt name eldriſſes. And the 9 Canon of the 2. coūſell of Turon held in the tyme of Pope Pelagius the firſt as witneſſeth Caranza, and the 14 as writeth Surius tom. 2. conc. And Henry Hūtington in his 7 booke writeth that Anſelme archbiſhop of Canterbury in his time which was about the yeare 1106. forbad the prieſts of England mariage (as he ſaieth) not forbid them before: whereupon as he noteth within ſhort time ſuch grieuous cō plaints were brought vntounto him of their Sodomitry, that he was enforced to make a law againſt that ſin: yet in the making of theſe lawes he dealt ſo fauorably, that whereas to liue in mariage with a lawfull wife was puniſhed with depriuation, one conuict of Sodomitry was onelyonly to be accurſed with their ordinary excommunication, vntill he repented & got abſolution, which was eaſie enough to come by. And thus in the iudgement of God moſt iuſtly, they forſaking like Hypocrites the natural and lawful vſe of mariage, they were giuen ouer (as Paul ſpeaketh of the reprobate gentiles Rom. 1.) to their owne filthy affections, in that there was nothing more common then filthy fornication & adultery amongſt them, or that in their cloyſters, they hauing left the natural vſe of the woman, one of them luſted towards another, and man with man wrought filthines, and ſo, as he there ſaieth, receiued in themſelues ſuch recompence of their errour as was meet. Theſe things conſidered, no maruel, though your gloſer vponupon the 84 diſtinction be inforced to confeſſe that olim & tempore praeterito, that is, that in ancient and former times they were maried: For by theſe teſtimonies and by that alſo which is ſet downe in that diſtinction it ſufficiently appeares, that your faſhion herein is but of late deuiſed and publickly receiued amongſt your own ſelues. Your doctrine alſo of free wil, howſoeuer it was then fauoured of the Pelagian heretiques, yet it appears, that it was in S. Auguſtines time aſmuch miſliked of him, & of the tru church of Chriſt, as it is now of vsus. For he ſaieth, what is there ſo much preſumed of the power of nature, it is woūded, maimed, vexed & loſt, it ſtāds need of true confeſsion, & not of a falſe defence, de natura & gratia Cap. 53. Further, if you wil take pains to read him, de gratia & libero arbitro ca. 17. de dogmatibus eccleſiae cap 32. de bono perſeuerantiae ca. 6. and in his 11. ſermon de verbis apoſtoli, you ſhal finde him moſt directly to teach, that of our own ſelues there is nothing but ſin, and that to doe wel, & wil wel, cōmeth wholy of God, which he of his free grace workes in vsus, and that neuer any of vsus, did more plainely confute duplicate page duplicate page and oppugne your doctrine herein, then he doth. And you know, that he lyued 400. yeares after Chriſt and more. In lyke ſort your doctrine of iuſtyficatiō, in part by mans owne merits and ſatiſfactions, howſoeuer of ancient tyme the ſcribes and phariſes troubled the Apoſtolicke Churches with the lyke doctrine, yet was it a doctrine abhorred of ye Church of Chriſt, as blaſphemous againſt ye omniſufficient merits, & ſatiſfaction of Chriſt Ieſus, our Lord & ſauiour, & ours of iuſtification freely and fully, ſoly and wholy by fayth onelyonly in Chriſt allowed and receiued, as ſound trueth, and doctrine in that poynt, not onelyonly in the Apoſtles tymes (as it appears Ro. 3. Gal. 2. & 5.) but alſo for many 100. years after, euen vntounto very late dayes. For proofe wherof let any man read Origē vponupon the 3. & 6. of the Romās, Ambroſe vponupon the 3 of the Romās alſo. Hierom in his booke againſt the Pelagiās, vponupon the 4 to the Romās, & vponupon the firſt and 2. to the Gala. Aug. de fide & operibus ca. 22. vponupon the 88 Pſa. and in his 22 Chap. of his Manuell: and Hilary in his 8 Canon vponupon Mathew. See alſo Baſils 51. hom. de humilitate, Paulinus 58. Epiſtle to Saint Auguſt. amongſt Auguſtines Epiſtles; Chryſoſtome vponupon the third to the Romans; Theodoret vponupon the ſame Chapter; Gregory Nazianzens twenty two oration, and Ruffinus his expoſition of the Creed: & you ſhal not onelyonly finde al theſe fathers in al theſe places, as flatly to teach free & ful iuſtificatiō & ſaluatiō, to cōe by faith in Chriſt alone, wtout our works at al cōcurring, as any helping cauſe therunto, as any of vsus now doe: but alſo further, I can & doe aſſure you, that who ſo wil vouchſafe to take the paines, to read Bernards 23, 61 and 62 Sermons of the Canticles, & his Sermon the 15 of the Pſalme, Qui habitat, and his ſeuenty ſeuen Epiſtle, he ſhal finde, that he (though he were aboue 1100 years after Chriſt) was of the ſame minde. For in theſe places he plainly confeſſes, that he for his ſaluation reſted onelyonly vponupon the merits of Chriſt, and not vponupon his owne at all, counting mans merite to bee nothing elſe, but to truſt onelyonly in Chriſt and in Gods mercy, withall plainly teſtifiyng, that he hoped to hauehave his, ſolâ fide, by faith onelyonly in Chriſt Ieſus. Yea your owne Thomas Aquine confeſſed with vsus, that we are iuſtified by fayth inſtrumentally, and that no vertue inherent in vsus, can be of the forme or eſſence of our iuſtificatiō. Rom. 4 Epheſians. 2, and in ſundry other places of his commentaries vponupon Pauls Epiſtles. And Sadolet, vponupon the Epiſtle to the Romans acknowledged (doubtles forced therunto by the power of this trueth) that Abraham attulit tantùm fidem, non ſua opera, that Abraham brought onelyonly faith, & not his owne works; & againe he ſaieth, quā tum quiſque affert de ſuâ iuſtitiâ, tantum detrahit de diuinâ beneficentiâ, that is, how much (in this reſpect) a man bringeth of his owne righteouſneſſe, ſo much he pulleth from Gods bountifulneſſe. How far likewiſe the ſtrength of this trueth conquered your great Champion Piggius, with griefe Ruard Tapper, and others of your ſide hauehave noted, & writē againſt him for it. For in the controuerſie of iuſtificatiō, fol. 61. he in playn tearms with vsus cōfeſſes, ſi formaliter & propriè loquamur, nec fide nec charitate noſtrâ iuſtificamur'ſed vnâ Dei in Chriſto iuſtitiâ, vnâ Chriſti nobis cōmunicatâ iuſtitia: yt is, if we ſpeak formally & properly, we are iuſtified neither by faith nor by our charity, but by the only righteouſnes of God in Chriſt: by the onelyonly righteouſnes of Chriſt cōmunicated vntounto vsus. And hauing wt vsus before in ye controuerſie, proued & confeſſed fol. 46. y al men, euen the moſt righteous, if they ſhould be iudged of God, or eſteemed according to their own righteouſnes, by merit and deſert, they were to be accurſed and condemned, not onelyonly for the imperfection of our beſt righteouſnes, but alſo for playne vnrighteouſnes to be foūd in ye beſt: he proceeds & concluds fol. 47. that our righteouſnes & hope of ſaluatiō wt God, cōſiſteth in the free forgiuenes of our ſins in Chriſt, & in that the perfect righteouſnes of Chriſt is imputed vntounto vsus, hauing cōmuniō wt him. And to make his meaning more plain, that he meaneth not by the righteouſnes of God or Chriſt, any inherēt righteouſnes of ours, wrought in vsus that beleeue, by ye ſpirit of Chriſt, as our late Ieſuites doe, but ye righteouſnes that was & is inherent in Chriſt: he ſaieth, yt ye righteouſnes of Chriſt, wherof he would be vnderſtood in this caſe to ſpeak, is his obediēce whereby he fulfilled his fathers wil in al things, and he expounds or declares the nature of ye faith, wherof the Apoſtle ſpeaketh, Rom. 3. ſaying, We are iuſtified freely by his grace, by the redemptiō that is in Chriſt Ieſus, whō he hath appointed to be our attonement maker by his bloud: to bee fiduciā & cōfidentiā in ſanguine eius, fol. 48. to be a truſt and confidence in his bloud, thereby alone to be ſaued: ſo ſtil aduouching fol. 49. his onelyonly righteouſnes imputed vntounto vsus, to be ye whereby we ſhal ſtand & be accoūted righteous before God, and him therefore to be vnicū & ſolidū, ye alone & ſoūd foūdatiō of our ſaluation. To conclude therefore this poynt, I ſay with Iunilius Aphricanus (who liued Anno. 440.) lib. 3. foreign, ſi quis in Chriſtū crediderit remiſſis peccatis, poteſt per ſolam fidem ſeruari, that is, if any beleeue in Chriſt, his ſinnes being forgiuen him, he may by fayth alone be ſaued: and wt Auguſtine vponupon the 31. Pſalm. ſi vis eſſe alienus a gratia, iacta merita tua: if thou wilt be voide of grace, thē boaſt of thy merits. Your doctrine of auricular confeſſiō, of praying to Saints, & for the dead, I hauehave at large in my anſwere to your thirty ſeuen Chapter, ſhewed to be but new doctrines, and of far later ſtampe then you pretend, and in like maner elſewhere I hauehave ſhewed diuers other points of your religion to be, in this aunſwere of mine. And I thinke you are not ignoraunt, that that worthy biſhop, biſhop Iewel, here in England, biſhop of Salisbury, hath moſt cōfidently proteſted, that for 600. years after Chriſt, you hauehave no ſound groūd for 25. articles (whereof the moſt of them, are about your maſſe, whereof you glory moſt) which proteſtation or chalenge of his, he hath hitherto defended, ſufficiently againſt all your obiections to the contrary. And therefore whatſoeuer you bragge to the contrary, ſo much of your religion, as we count it popiſh for, is and will proue (when you hauehave done what you can) but as the tares Math. 13 that were by Sathan ſubtly and ſecretly ſowen in the Lords field, long after the good ſeed was ſowen. And yet we labouring onelyonly according to our callinges, and that knowledge that God hath giuen vsus of his trueth out of his written word, to call you from this newe found pretended religion of yours, to the ancient and true catholicke faith, which we hauehave learned out of the ſcriptures, and of alſound antiquity: you not onelyonly burſt out into this vaine and monſtrouſly falſe brags, of the antiquity of yours, and nouelty of ours, but alſo knowing in your own conſciences, that your folly therein wil ſoone be deſcried, you cal then for miracles to confirme and warrant this our commiſſion by, which you would faine proue, to be as neceſſarie for vsus in this caſe, as it was for Moſes in his time, thereby to confirme his. Wherunto I ſay as vponupon the like occaſion, S. Auguſtine ſaid in his time, de ciuitate Dei l. 22. c. 8. Whoſoeuer yet ſeeketh after miracles, that ſo he may beleeue, he himſelfe is a mōſtrous miracle, who the world beleeuing, yet beleeues not. For if our doctrine be the ſame, that the Apoſtles taught (as we are alwaies ready, and by GODS grace able to proue it to be, by the vndoubted woord of God) then their miracles are ſo many ſeales of this our doctrine, and ſo it beeing thereby ſufficiently confirmed already by miracles, needles is it to require any further confirmation thereof now, by new miracles againe. But you ſeeme to take it for granted, that we ſtand either very much, or altogither vponupon the extraordinarines of our vocation, and therfore ſuppoſing that ſuch a vocation muſt alwaies be confirmed by miracles, you call for them the rather, thus earneſtly at our hands. Concerning which point, I hauehave tolde you already, yt though in ſuch ruins of the church, as you had brought it vntounto, it bee no ſtrange thing with God to ſtir vp men extraordinarily, to ſeeke the reformation thereof, as he did many of the Prophets: yet neither the firſt miniſters, which in theſe later daies, he hath vſed to this end amongſt vsus, nor thoſe that he hath vſed ſince, to go on with that which the others began, rely onelyonly vponupon an extraordinary calling, for as I hauehave ſhewed, both the one and the other, hauehave had outward ordinary calling. Beſides you muſt vnderſtand, that a man may hauehave an extraordinary calling, as had Nahū, Abdia, & diuers other of the prophets, who yet you cannot ſhew, euer wrought any miracles to confirme their calling withal. And to vſe Chryſoſtomes words, which he vſed againſt ſuch as you, in that commentary vponupon Matth. Hom. 47. which you father vponupon him, what miracle wrought Iohn Baptiſt, which inſtructed ſo many and great Cities? For the Euangeliſt ſaieth he wrought none Iohn. 10. And yet who therefore may lawfully ſay, that he had no lawfull vocation or good commiſſion. Againe you know by that which is writen Deut. 13. & 2. Theſ. 2. and elſwhere: that falſe prophets, yea Antichriſt himſelfe, may and ſhal ſeeke to ſeduce men, and to draw men from God by miracles, & therefore there God forwarneth his people thereof, that if notwithſtanding they ſuffer themſelues, the rather to be peruerted thereby, they may be voide of al excuſe. Wherefore, ſeeing there hauehave bene ſundry true prophets extraordinarily called, that yet hauehave wrought no miracles, and alſo many falſe prophets, that hauehave wrought them, and may doe agayne; to what purpoſe ſhould you thus call for miracles, as though they ſtraight might lawfully be refuſed, that worke them not, and they ſafely alwayes followed, that doe them? Howſoeuer you ſeeme to pretend, that if we ſhould worke miracles you would beleeue vsus, yet certayne it is, that if we ſhould worke neuer ſo many, you would as little for all that beleeue vsus, as the blinde and ſuperſtitious Iewes beleeued Chriſt and his Apoſtles, for all the myracles wrought by them: but this is onelyonly a ſhift of yours, as long as you may, to dazell the eyes of the ſimple. For queſtionles if myracles would ſerue the turne, beſide ſundry miracles indeede which the ſtories doe teſtifie, hauehave beene wrought by God, in the protection and propagation of the religiō, which we now profeſſe, euē this is a miracle of miracles, that Luther, lyuing in ſuch a time as he did, ſhould doe as he did, & to ſo great effect wtout miracle, & yet in the end, maugre al his enemies, which were many & mighty, to die quietly, as he did, in his bed. So yt al theſe things conſidered, it appeareth (I hope) ſufficiētly to the indifferent reader, that you hauehave no ſuch aduantage againſt vsus for miracles, and you pretend. But becauſe your obiectiō in this behalfe is ſo egerly proſecuted by you, I wil not refuſe to follow you frō ſtep to ſtep & to yeeld you a more particuler āſwer, to whatſoeuer you hauehave ſayed in this matter. Firſt therefore, whereas you would inſinuate to your reader, that we doe wrong, in comparing the miſery that the poor people were in, vnderunder your Popes, to the miſery that the people of Iſrael were in, in Aegipt, vnderunder Pharao; & their deliuerāce frō the Romiſh yoke, to the deliuerāce of that people, frō the bōdage of Aegypt: we graūt you, we make that compariſon ſometimes, & we are ſure, that therein there is offred no wrong at al vntounto you. For both in vniuerſality, continuannce of time, and extremity both to ſoule & bodie, the ſlauery vnderunder your proud antichriſtian Popes, hath exceeded theirs, vnderunder Pharao in Aegypt: and conſequently, the deliuerance of the people from that of yours, muſt needes (beeing as it is both more ſpiritual and general, then that of theirs was) much exceed yt of theirs. But that therefore, it is as neceſſary that wee ſhould anew work miracles, to confirme our vocation, to doe this; as it was for Moſes to confirme his calling, to doe the other thereby: therin you are both deceiued & ſeeke alſo to deceiue others. For Moſes by God was ſhewed, that he ſhould ſo confirme his, and ſo are not we that we ſhal or ought ſo to confirme ours, and his calling thereunto was not onelyonly extraordinary, whereas ours in great part at leaſt (as I hauehave ſhewed) hath bene to this ordinary, but alſo the thing it ſelfe and the means to bring it to paſſe, both in the eies of Pharao & al others, were ſtrange & miraculous, wheras in this our caſe in delyuering mē frō your antichriſtiā ſeruitude, & bringing thē to the liberty & freedome purchaſed for thē, by the bloud of Chriſt, by the preaching of ye worde of God ſincerely, & miniſtring his ſacraments accordingly, both are wōted & ordinary. For what is more ordinary wt God, then to bring mē frō error to trueth, & yt by theſe means in his church? The thing yt Moſes was ſent to doe was a new & ſtrange thing: for a man of his quality wtout force of war & weapons to deliuer ſo great & gainful a people out of ye hands of ſuch an hard hearted tyrāt, it is wōderful, & therfore it was likewiſe neceſſary, that ye means that he ſhould effect that by, eſpecially ſhould be miracles. Finally there was no certainer way for Moſes, hauing to deal wt ſuch an one as he had, thē to approue his calling by miracles, wheras ours in this, is far more ſubſtātiallie iuſtified by the ſcriptures, frō whēce our doctrine hath warrāt, yt hath wrought this effect, then it could hauehave by miracles. For as whē the law was firſt publiſhed wt al ye ceremonies therof, it was needful, becauſe thē it was new, that Moſes credit ye publiſher therof, & ye law it ſelfe, ſhould be cōfirmed by miracle, but whē in ye raigne of Ioſiah, Hilkiah ye prieſt foūd ye booke of the law, wc had lien hid before a long time, & ſo did but reuiue or renue the ſame law, that was before ſufficiently confirmed by miracles, he wrought no miracles, neither was there any called for, or looked for at his hāds, for it was needles. Euē ſo, whē the ceaſing of the ceremonial ſeruice of the law was to end, & the new prieſthood of Chriſt to come in place thereof, & ſo withal that then firſt it ſhould be notified both to Iew and gentile who was and is the very perſon of the Meſsias, & what new gouernment & ſacraments he would hauehave in his houſe, it was neceſſary that miracles ſhould be wrought, to confirme the miniſtry of thē, yt ſhould teach theſe new & ſtrange thinges firſt vntounto the world: but now theſe things hauing bene already then ſufficiently cōfirmed by miracles, we comming in theſe later daies of the world, and not taking vponupon vsus, to preach any other doctrine then the former, and ſo onelyonly renuing and reuiuing the knowledge of that, which by the ignoraunce and wickednes of former times, had lyen in great part hid, no more at our hands ought miracles to be looked for. Indeede if it could be proued but once, that we labour to ſet abroach a new doctrine (as you often in wordes charge vsus) that neuer was before ſufficiently confirmed by miracles, or if the maner that we vſed to reuiue it by, were any other, but the ancient ordinary way that God hath alwaies allowed in his Church, there were yet ſome colour of reaſon, why they ſhould bee thus called for at our handes. But ſeeing wee ſtand vponupon that point, and hauehave alwaies done, that our religion is the very ſame, and no other that Chriſt and his Apoſtles taught, which by them in their times was confirmed by miracles, and the maner of our dealing to ſpread the ſame againe, is but the ordinary miniſterie of the worde and ſacraments, by them left for the ſame purpoſe vntounto the church, there is no reaſon at all, in matching vsus, thus as you doe, with Moſes, and in requiring miracles of vsus, as of him. And vntill you can proue by the ſcriptures, that the doctrine that we preach is falſe, which you neuer ſhall be able to doe, the three places which you cite out of Ieremie 14.27. & 29. vttered by him, to admoniſh the people in his time, to take heede of ſuffering of themſelues to be ſeduced, with the falſe and lying Prophets, that were in thoſe daies, make nothing at all againſt vsus, nor yet appertaine to the matter in hand: which was to proue, that ſeeing we worke no miracles, therefore our commiſſion cannot be good, in taking vponupon vsus to reforme you. For in theſe places (euē by the words as they are ſet down by your ſelfe) it moſt euidently appeares, that he warned the people to take heede onelyonly of ſuch Prophets, as prophecied falſly in the name of God, hauing no vocation from him, and labouring to ſeduce the people by falſe viſions, naughty diuinations, ſouthſayings and their owne dreames: whereas we hauehave ordinary vocation from God preach nothing but trueth warranted by his word, and neuer vſe, but alwaies abhor the vſe, of all theſe meanes, that they vſed to ſeduce the people by. But herein moſt certaine it is, that the Lord moſt plainely forewarneth his people of ſuch as you be. For you be they indeede, that were neuer ſent of Chriſt, but of Antichriſt, and that preach falſe doctrine, as doeth appeare not only by the diſſenting, but by the contrariety of your doctrine, in a number of points from the vndoubted word of God (as I hauehave noted in ſundrie places in this my anſwere to you) and then whom neuer any falſe Prophets in the world, more relied vponupon falſe viſions, diuinations, ſouthſayings & fond dreames; for indeede they are the beſt & moſt vſuall pillers, & grounds of your Popiſh doctrine. For what is more common with you, then to the ende theſe may hauehave place, to complaine, and by long rhetoricall diſcourſes, to make what ſhew you can, of the obſcurity, vnſufficiency and vncertainty of the word writen; that ſo with ſome colour, you may ſhew the triall of your doctrine, by that touchſtone, and all becauſe, in your owne conſciences you know, that it cannot be iuſtified thereby. And then, when thus you hauehave ſatiſfied your ſelues in weakning, what you may, the credit of the ſcriptures, to prepare a way for your ſelues to fly from them: then you breake out into commendation of the word vnwriten, traditions, and liuely practiſe of the church, that ſo by that window, you may thruſt in and out to the Church, whatſoeuer pleaſeth you, be it neuer ſo fond a viſiō, diuination or dreame of your owne drowſy heads. But yet once againe, for lacke of miracles howſoeuer the caſe ſtand, whither we be ſent of God or no, for your refuſing to yeeld vntounto vsus, you thinke you may pleade ſimplicity, and ignorance, for your excuſe, as Abimelech did Gen. 20. eſpecially (you ſay) ſeeing you are willed not to beleeue eueryevery ſpirit, and ſeeing you reade, that the Angell of darknes, will ſometime trāſforme himſelfe into the ſhape of an Angell of light &c. But withall, you muſt remember, that you are willed to ſearch the ſcriptures Iohn 5. & ſo, to trie the ſpirits, whither they be of God or no 1. Ioh. 4. For they are able to make the mā of God wiſe to ſaluatiō, & thorowly to furniſh him, to all good workes. 2. Tim. 3. which if you did as you ought, thereby you ſhall be driuen to perceaue, that not only our calling is of God, but that alſo we teach the trueth according to the ſame, and that therefore, notwithſtanding we worke no miracles; yet your ignorance cannot be ſimple ignorance, as Abimelechs was, but either wilfull, or of an idle peeuiſh negligence, and therefore ſuch as cannot excuſe you, in refuſing to beleeue vsus. And as it is writen, that ſathan will ſo tranſforme himſelfe, as you write, and that we ſhould take heede what way we take, for there is a way that ſeemeth good, and yet leadeth to deſtruction: ſo you muſt remember that ſtill, the due conſideration of the writen word, is the meanes to preſerue vsus frō the dāger of both. For thereby Chriſt hath taught vsus to withſtand him Mat. 4. euen when he would ſeeme to fortify his temptations with the word writen it ſelfe; & whereby elſe ſhall a young man learne, to frame his waies aright, but by taking heede thereunto according to the ſame. Pſal 119. you muſt alſo remember, that it is writē, Wo to him that calleth good euil, Eſa. 5. & ſtriue to enter in at the ſtreite gate Luk, 13. Al this notwithſtanding, in your opinion we are like to a falſe merchant, pretending to be the Princes ſeruant, in his maſters name demāding mony of his debtters, hauing neither his hād nor ſeale to warrāt his demād: and all this you ſay, & would perſwade to be true, becauſe we worke no miracles, as the Apoſtles did. I deny your argument, for we hauehave our Lord & maſters hand and ſeale in his writen word, in that therby our doctrin is taught, & as it appears, therby is ſealed both by miracles & wt the pretious bloud of our lord & ſauiour: yea but ſay you, if yee be the Apoſtles ſucceſſours, in preaching this doctrine, why doe ye not confirme your doctrine with ſignes and wonders, and ſay with the Apoſtle Paul 2. Corinth. 12. the ſignes of our Apoſtleſhip hauehave beene accompliſhed amongſt you, with ſignes and miracles? Hereunto I anſwere, that then it was neceſſarie for them ſo to doe, and yet now it is not likewiſe for vsus, becauſe then for the newneſſe and ſtrangenes of diuerſe things incident to their miniſtrie, miracles for the firſt confirmation thereof, for a time were neceſſary, whereas now, we taking vponupon vsus only to preach the ſame doctrine, as we doe, it being then thereby ſufficiently confirmed, it is needles now to confirme it againe thereby.