Answer to John De Albines, Answer to discourse · Chapter 6
The VI. Chapter.
SAint Auguſtine in his Epiſtle.aYou ſhould ſay 165. f r there are but 204. epiſtles in all. 365. about the like matter, doth ſet forth all the Popes by order, which hauehave beene from S. Peters time vntill Anaſtaſius, which was Pope in his time, and by his continuall ſucceſsion he doeth proue,bBy the ſame argument we diſproue popery, becauſe none of them that hee reckōs vp there, was of the Romiſh religion that now is. that the doctrine of the Donatiſts is heretical, becauſe that none of thoſe Popes which hee did recite, nor no part of the Church did receiue it. I praie you, may not wee ſaie the like by thecNo, not by thē truely, whom you call Caluiniſtes. Caluiniſts and other heretiques. The ſaied S. Auguſtine in the Epiſtle thatdIt ſeemes you are a learned mā For Auguſtine wrote againſt an epiſtle ſo called, he calleth not his ſo. The Epithet Romā you adde, & the words al and continual, for he ſpeaketh but of ſucceſſion to his time, and yet there he ſaieth, that o…e trueth is to be preferred before all theſe. he doeth call Epiſtola fundamenti. cap. 4. doeth write the reaſons that did keepe him vnderunder the obedience of the Catholicke Roman Church. And among other, he doeth alleadge the common conſent of all nations, & the continuall ſucceſsion of Biſhops.eThis ſheweth your great ignorance or negligence, for of th… argument Auguſtine wrote two bookes, and in eueryevery booke many chapters there be, but this is common with you, the more to trouble your reader, to ſend him to whole bookes, and beſide, ſometimes to ſet downe your quotations, as though the authour had wrote but one, when he wrote mo of that argumēt, or as though he had wrote moe, when he had writen but one. And in his booke which he made againſt the aduerſarie of the olde and newe lawe, he doeth name the ſucceſsion of the Biſhops, as moſt certaine to anſwere to that that wee ſaied before of S.*Epheſ. 1. Paul: fYou write Epheſ. 1. for Epheſ. 4.I mean, that he would not hauehave vsus to be wauering and doubtfull in our doctrine, but that we ſhould be firme and ſtable, the which ſtableneſſe is obtained by the knowledge and intelligence of the Scriptures, according to the traditions of the Church, and the ſucceſsion of the Apoſtles and Biſhops.fIt continued ſo to Auguſtines time, that is, three or foure hundreth yeares ſo, ergo ſo a thouſand fiue hundreth yeares and more it ſhould ſo continue, the argumēt followeth not. The Church (ſaieth S. Auguſtine) from the Apoſtles time, hath continued through the certaine ſucceſsion of the Biſhops, vntill our daies.
The VI. Chapter.
IN this 6. Chapter, you cite three places though ſome of them wrōg quoted out of Auguſtine, whereby indeed it appeareth, that as Irenaeus did obiect ſucceſſion, euen ſo did he, to confute the heretiques of his time: that taught things contrary to the ſcriptures; but as I hauehave ſaied vntounto you, concerning Irenaeus, ſo doe I concerning him. You muſt remēber, that Auguſtine liued & wrote within 400. yeares after Chriſt: vntounto whoſe time the Biſhops & paſtours whoſe ſucceſſion he produceth, had continued at leaſt, ſound in the fundamentall pointes of Chriſtian Religion: from which you & your predeceſſours fell away long ago, & therefore that which he might herein ſafely and to good purpoſe doe, you cannot doe without perill, & to an ill ende. Againe you muſt be told, that as Irenaeus was not, ſo neither was he in thus doing a Prophet, to ſhew that to the worldes ende, it would be ſafe thus to doe. And laſtly, I would hauehave both you and your reader to remember, that it is not bare perſonal ſucceſſion, that Auguſtine here maketh ſuch reckoning of, but that whē it was ioyned alſo with ſucceſſion of trueth of doctrine, as it was in his time with them, of whoſe ſucceſſiō he ſpeaketh, and is not now with you, and them, of whoſe ſucceſſion you brag ſo much Which three things conſidered, whatſoeuer things further by you, or any of your fellowes are alleadged to this purpoſe out of Tertulliā, Cyprian, or Epiphanius (which you might hauehave as well alleadged, as Irenaeus or Auguſtine) be anſwered. For they all of them liued within 500. yeares after Chriſt, when as yet the ſtate of the church ſtood in good tearmes, in compariſon that yours doeth: and they all ſpoke of ſucceſſion of perſons, ſucceeding alſo one another in the Apoſtolicke trueth, and they ſpake but for their owne times: they prophecied not that ſo it would be alwaies. And yet thus it is your faſhiō, to beguile the ſimple, that whatſoeuer you reade 1000. yeares ago ſpoken in commendation of the Church of Rome, that then was the Catholicke church, or Catholicke faith, yt you would beare them in hand, is ſpoken of your Romiſh church and Religion now, when as yours compared with thoſe times, hath no ſimilitude with the Church of Chriſt then, in a great number of weighty points. But for the better ſatiſfying of the reader, indeede S. Auguſt: (what account ſoeuer either in theſe places here recited by you, or elſe where hee ſeemeth to make of perſonall ſucceſſion, or of any ſuch outward thing in the church) made more account of ſole trueth, taught only by the canonical Scriptures; then of all other things beſides. For euen in in his 165. epiſtle, which is the epiſtle (as it ſhould ſeeme) which you meant, though you quote the 365. which is more by an hundred & one then there are in all: after, he ſaieth, we preſume not ſo much of theſe, as of the ſcriptures. And in the ſecond place, by you here cited out of him (which ignorātly you ſay he calleth Epiſtola fundamēti, wheras he calleth none of his epiſtles ſo, but writes againſt an epiſtle of the Manichees which they ſo called, one book) in the later ende of the fourth Chapter whereof, after hee had reckoned vp the thinges which did hold him in the boſome of the Catholicke church, and might likewiſe hold any beleeuer therein, though trueth as yet did not moſt manifeſtly ſhew her ſelfe, he addeth by & by, but wt you (ſpeaking to the Manichees) ſola perſonat veritatis pollicitatio &c. onelyonly promiſe of trueth rings; which truely if it bee ſhewed to bee on your ſide, ſo manifeſt, that it cannot be called into doubt, praeponenda eſt omnibus illis rebus, quibus in Catholicâ teneor, that is, is to bee preferred before all thoſe thinges, whereby otherwiſe I am held in the Catholicke Church. The third place likewiſe, which you alleadge here out of Auguſtine (as you hauehave quoted it) ſerueth onelyonly to bewray either your groſſe ignorance or negligence. For I finde he wrote 2. bookes againſt the aduerſarie of the lawe and the Prophets, but none in all his tomes can I finde fathered vponupon him, writen, as you ſay, againſt the aduerſarie of the olde and new lawe: and if you meant the former, there being two bookes of that title, and eueryevery one conſiſting of many Chapters, why ſpeake you thereof as though he had writen but one, and name not the Chapter: when you tell vsus where to finde the place, you ſhall be more particulerly anſwered thereunto. In the meane time, you ſee in Auguſtines iudgement in the two other places, yt the trueth taught in the canonical ſcriptures, is to be preferred before all other motiues to keepe a man in the true Catholique Church: contrarie whereunto I am ſure hee neither teacheth where you meane, nor any where elſe. You ſhould therefore in his opinion farre better beſtowe your time then you doe, if you would beſtow it in prouing by the ſcriptures, that you & your Church were ſtable in this trueth: eſpecially ſeeing trueth it ſelfe, euen here hath enforced you to confeſſe, that that ſtablenes is atteined vntounto, by the knowledge and intelligence of the ſcriptures. But you adde, yt theſe ſcriptures thē muſt be vnderſtoode according to the traditions of the church, and the ſucceſſion of the Apoſtles and Biſhops. If by the church you did vnderſtande (as you ſhould) the true and pure church of Chriſt, and by her traditions and Biſhops, ſuch as were ſound, that is, ſuch as are truely iuſtifiable by the canonicall ſcriptures, as the ancient fathers, Irenaeus, Tertullian & Auguſtine, with others of thoſe, and former times were woont to vnderſtād them, as I hauehave ſhewed before, when to ſtop the mouthes of heretiques they did appeale to thē; then wee would moſt willingly ioyne wt you that iſſue, by ye ſcriptures ſo vnderſtoode, to trie whether you or we hauehave attained to the ſtablenes of trueth. But vnderſtāding therby, as you doe, your Romiſh church for theſe laſt 500. or 600. yeares, & her traditions & Biſhops: we ſay and ſure we are, we are able to proue it, yt ſo far of is it, that the ſcriptures are to be vnderſtoode according to thē, that there is no readier way to miſunderſtand them, and to make them to hauehave a mutable and flexible ſence, now one way now another, then to make them (they being ſo contrary as they be to the ancient & ſound traditions of Chriſts church, which alwaies were conſonant (if not the very ſame) to yt is taught in the word writen; & the Biſhops you meane, being likewiſe ſo different from them, that were in the primatiue church, and oftē alſo ſo varying amōgſt themſelues, as they are in the interpreting of them) to be the rules of right vnderſtanding of thē. Finally if you had any forhead or conſcience, you would be aſhamed ſo to abuſe your poore ſimple reader as you do, in going about to make him beleeue: that becauſe Auguſtine could or did ſay that the church had continued in it, frō the Apoſtles times, through the ſucceſſion of Biſhops, to his: that therefore hee ſaied it had ſo to ours, there being aboue 1000. yeares difference.