The Character of the Beast, Debate 2 · John Smith 13 – Richard Clifton 14
Iohn Smyth.
And thus having shewed the vanity of your answeres to my reaſons againſt pedobaptieſtery …. let vsus come to your answer made to my ſecond poſition: which is this.
2. That Antichriſtians converted are to be admitted into the true Church by baptiſme.
The firſt thing that in your Answer you intend to prove, is, that the baptiſme adminiſtred in the Apoſtate Churches of Antichriſt is not to be reiterated.
And for this purpoſe you produce 6. Arguments.
Your firſt Argument is framed thus,
If the Apoſtacy of Iſrael did not ſo pollute circumciſion that it ceaſed to bee the ſeale of Gods covenant to ſo many of them as repented: no more doth the Apoſtacy of our forefathers ſo pollute baptiſme that it ceaſeth to be a Sacrament to ſo many of them as repented.
But the firſt is true, 2. Chron. 30.11.18.21.
Ergo the ſecond.
I Answer that the Apoſtacy of Antichriſt is deeper then the Apoſtacy of Iſraell, for firſt Antichriſtians are not called Iſraelites, but Babyloniās, Egyptians, Sodomites Gentils in the Revelation, wherby the holy Spirit of wiſdom giveth vsus to conceave that he doth account the Apoſtacy of Antichriſt equal to Paganiſme it ſelf: yea to the very worſt kind of Paganiſme.
Secondly, I declare plainly the differences betwixt the Apoſtacy of Antichriſt & Iſrael, in this, that Iſraels Apoſtacy did not deſtroy the true conſtitution of the chur: But Antichriſts Apoſtacy did raſe the true Apoſtolique conſtitution: For the true conſtitution of the Church of the old Teſtament was of carnal Iſraelites or Proſelites circumciſed: Gen. …7.10-14. Exod. 12.48.49. & ſo long as they retayned circumciſion in the Land of Canaan, they retayned a true conſtitution, though their Apoſtacy was never ſo great in the worship, miniſtery, & Government, as is to be ſeen Hoſ. 4.6.8.12. therfor Abijah doth not chardg the Iſraelites with a falſe conſtitution, but declareth vntounto them their falſe Government, 2 Chron. 13. vſus. 8. Their falſe miniſtery vſus. 9. Their falſe worship, vſus. 8. & declareth the true government, miniſtery, & worship of Iudah. But it is manifeſt that Antichriſt hath not only ſet vp a falſe Government of Prelacy, a falſe miniſtery of Preiſthood, & a falſe worship of reading, but alſo hath ſet vp a falſe conſtitution of the Church: For whereas the true Apoſtolique conſtitution was of baptized Diſciples that confeſſed their Faith & then ſinns he hath foyſted in a falſe matter of the Church, viz: infants: & perſons vnbaptized: & ſo a falſe forme: for infants are no more capable of baptiſme then is a foole o… …d man or Pagan: neithe… can they expreſſe any more repentance o… Faith then ſuch perſons doe: & ſeing the true forme of the Church is a covenant betwixt God & the Faithful made in baptiſme in which Chriſt is viſibly put on: & that infants cannot receave the covenant which is only done by actual viſible Faith, nor cannot ſeale back vntounto the Lord that hee is true, Ioh. 3.33 as God ſealeth vntounto them his truth by his Spirit, Eph. 1.13. For the covenant is this, I wilbe their God. 2. Cor. 6.16. & they shalbe al taught of God, Ioh. 6.45. & shal al know God from the leaſt vntounto the greateſt: Heb. 8.11. & the covenant is this: I wilbe their Father, 2. Cor. 6:18. & wee shalbe his ſonnes calling him Father by the Spirit, wherby we are ſealed, Gal. 4.6. Hence it followeth that the Church of Antichriſt being conſtituted of a falſe matter, viz: infants vncapable of baptiſme, & of a falſe ſonne, viz: infants vnable to enter into the New Teſtament by ſealing back the covenant vntounto the Lord, & conſenting vntounto the contract, therefore they can have no title to Chriſt or any of his ordinances, but are as pagans or Gentils in the Lords account. Circumciſion therfor in the Iſraelites Apoſtacy was true circumciſion, bicauſe it was performed vppon carnal Iſraelites or Proſelytes the eigth day: but baptiſme in Popery is falſe baptiſme, & ſo in the Lords account no better then Pagan washing, being adminiſtred vppon infants a ſubject that God never appointed to baptiſme: a ſubject that is as vncapable of baptiſme as an infidel, a mad man, a naturall fo…le, or any other ſubject that cannot confeſſe their Faith or ſinnes, or be made Diſciples by deſtruction.
Thirdly I declare that Iſrael was the true Church of God, or a member or part of the true Church of God though infinitely corrupt aswel as Iudah in the dayes of her Apoſtacy, ſee Ezechiel 3. toto. & Ezech. 16. toto: & Ezech. 20.28-31. & therfor if Iudah retayned true circumciſion in her Apoſtacy when the L. calleth her a harlot Ezech. 16.35. & the Apoſtacy of Iudah is worſe in the L. account then that of Iſrael Ezech. 16.47-53. Surely the circumciſion of Iſrael was alſo true, & Iſrael a true part of the Church as wel as Indah: & for the bil of divorce which ſome plead was given to Iſrael by Hoſea: Hoſ. 2.2. I ſay that was after the paſſeover of Hezechiah which was in the firſt yeer of his raigne, 2. Chron. 29.3.17. & 30.2. & the bil of divorce was given the ſixth yeer of his raigne, 2. King. 17.23. compared with 2. King. 18.10. yet nevertheleſſe Hoſea calleth Iſrael the Lords people after he had propheſied of the bil of divorce to be given, Hoſ. 4.6.8.12. & when the bil of divorce was given, divers of Iſrael I doubt not, kept themſelves pure from Samaritaniſme, & retained circumciſion, & came vp yeerly to Ieruſalem even til the dayes of Ioſiah, 2. Chron. 35.18. compared with 2. Chron. 34.6.7.3-33. So that hereby it is moſt manifeſt that no manner of ſinne made the Church of the old Teſtament a falſe Church, ſo long as they retayned circumciſion in the Land of Canaan, yea if they retayned circumciſion though in Babylō, wherevppō I am perſwaded that if the Papucy, or England, or the Greek Churches did only baptiſe men confeſſing their Faith & their ſinnes into Chr, the Sonne of God, or into the Trinity, though they retayned their falſe miniſtery, worship & Government, & other ther abhominations yet the baptiſme was true & not to be repeated: as their circumciſion was good notwithſtanding al their abhominations & horrible Idolatryes, & fearful Apoſtacy in Iſrael.
Mr. Rich. Clifton.
Babylon in Chaldea (which was a type of Spiritual Babylon, Apoc. 18.2.) though they did abuſe & profan the veſſels of the L. Dan. 5.3. yet did not that make a nullity of them that they ceaſed any more to be the veſſels of the houſe of the Lor. but were brought vp with them of the captivity that came vp from Babel to Ieruſalem Ezra. 1.11. Even ſo although Spiritual Babylon have profaned the Holy things of God, as baptiſme & the reſt, yet remaine they ſtil Gods ordinances to al them that come out of her, Apoc. 18.4. & returne to the celeſtial Ieruſalem. & as theſe veſſels of the howſe of the L. need not to be new caſt, bicauſe of Babels polluting them: no more is baptiſme to be reiterated to the people of God, bicauſe it paſſed thorow the polluted hands of the Papiſts.
If it bee objected, that they that adminiſtred baptiſme in Babylon, were Idolaters, & had no calling therto.
I answere: That they which circumciſed in the Apoſtacy of Iſrael were Idolaters, & ſo ſtanding in that eſtate could not be fit Miniſters of Gods holy ordinances. & that the wanting of a lawful calling to adminiſter the Sacrament makes not a nullity therof, the circumciſing of Moſes Sonne by his mother Zippora, Exod. 4.25. doth plainly teach. For as the Lord makes effectual his word to his people, though comming vntounto them, by the hands of a falſe miniſtery, ſo doth he baptiſme to al that bee his, though adminiſtred by them that have not a Lawful calling thervnto. The ſin of the miniſter makes not a nullity either of the word or Sacraments, els thould the efficacy of the word & Sacraments, depend vponupon him that adminiſtreth thē, which is not ſo, for both have their effect from the Lord.
If againe it be objected, that baptiſme was not adminiſtred in the Apoſtate Chur. of Antichriſt to a fit ſubject I answer that the children in the Apoſtacy were as fit ſubjects to receave baptiſme, as the infants of Iſraell in the dayes of Ieroboam & Ahab, were to receave circumciſion: Seing the covenant of Abraham (after the comming of Chriſt) belonged as properly to the Gentils, Gal. 3.14. as before it did to the Iſraelites,