The Character of the Beast, Debate 2 · John Smith 21 – John Smith 22
Iohn Smyth.
In the next place you make answer to my laſt argument, which may bee framed into this forme.
As the falſe Church & miniſtery are rejected, & the contrary true Church & miniſtery aſſumed: So the falſe worship, & ſo by conſequent the falſe baptiſme muſt be renounced, & the true baptiſme aſſumed.
Verum primum.
Ergo ſecundum.
The ſumme of your answer is, that we muſt renounce indeed the falſe Church, miniſtery, & worship, & yet may retaine the baptiſme receaved in the falſe Church, which (you ſay) is true in author, matter, forme, & end: Though corrupt in circumſtance, as oyling, croſſing, breathing, &c. repenting of thoſe coruptions, & not caſting away the true ſubſtance with the corrupted circumſtances deviſed by man, & annexed therto, &c.
Although al that is mentioned heer is already taken away in the former diſcourſe yet it shal not be amiſſe to annexe ſome thing for further cleering of the point.
Firſt, I deny the popish baptiſme to be true in the 4. cauſes therof as you affirme: 1. The L. never inſtituted that infant… …hould be baptized, 2. he never ordeyned that Pagans should be baptized, 3. he never inſtituted that the carnal ſeed of the faithfull should be baptized: Therfor ſeing infants that are not the ſeed of the faithful, but the ſeed of Babylonians, are baptized by Antich. the matter of baptiſme is falſe, … the L. never appointed that the party should be baptized without his owne confeſſion & conſēt to the contract that the L. maketh in baptiſme: & therfor the Apo. Peter ſaith that in baptiſme ther is the queſtion of a good conſcience into God: & Paull ſaith that when the body is washed with pure water, the hart muſt be ſprinckled from an evil conſcience, 1. Pet. 3.21. Heb. 10.22. therfor infants are baptized which cannot Stipulate or contract themſelves vntounto the L. therfor the L. doth not contract with them, for Chr. the husband of the Church wil not contract in marriage with a bride or a ſpowſe that is vnderunder age, Gal. 4.1-4.3. the L. did never appoint that baptisme should ſeale vp his new Teſtament to infants, or that infants should by his baptiſme be admitted into the body of Antich. & into the Church, miniſtery, worship, & government of Antich. or that his baptiſme should ſet a character indelible vponupon parties baptized, or should give grace ex opere operato, al which or moſt of which are done in Antich. baptiſme: but the end of Chr. baptiſme is to manifeſt viſibly that the partie confeſſing his faith & ſinnes is ſealed by the Spirit vntounto the day of redemption, that he hath viſibly put on Chr. that he is mortified, crucified, dead, & buryed, riſen againe, & aſcended with Chr. Rom. 6.1-6. & Col. 2.12. Gal. 3.27. Col. 3.1-5. theſe are the true ends of baptiſme inſtituted by Chr.: Seing therfor the matter, forme, & end of baptiſme in the falſe Church is from man even from Antich. the for the L. is not the author of this baptiſme, but the baptiſme is antic. wholy: & although he vſeth the words, In nomine Patris, Filij, & Sp. Sancti amen: as the papiſts do in ſprinckling holy water, in baptiſing their bels, & as conjurers do in their charmes, yet this cannot make true baptiſme, but rather is a moſt notable profanatiō of the holy Scripture, even as it is profaned in ther Sermons & dayly worship performed by them. I affirme therfor againe & againe that the baptiſme receaved in the falſe Church is none of the L. ordinance, but antichr. deviſe, eſſentially corrupted, in matter, forme, & end or vſe: & therfor wholly to be rejected with the oynting, breathing, & croſſing, &c.
Heer you endevour to prove that Iſrael was a falſe Church, bicauſe it Seperated from Iudah, & bicauſe they joyned together in a new Church & communion, vnderunder a falſe miniſtery & worship, & became a harlot wherto I answer that ſo was Iudah a falſe Ch: when they worshipped Idols vnderunder every greē tree, & in the high places: & if you ſo vnderſtand a falſe Church, viz: meetings, or companyes of men aſſembled together in a wrong place, & to a wrong worship, vnderunder a wrong Preiſthood, I yeeld Iſrael ſo to be a falſe Church, but I deny that to be the true definition of a falſe Chu. for a falſe Church is contrary to a true Church: now a true Church is deſcerned in the true cauſes eſſential: & ſo a falſe Church is known by the want of thoſe true cauſes eſſential: the true eſſential cauſes of the Chu. of the old Teſt was the poſterity of Abrah. or proſelytes circumciſed: the want of theſe things only made a falſe Chur: So long as the Iſraelites retained circumciſion, they were the true carnal conſtituted Church of the old Teſt: & Iſrael & Iudah are called harlots, not for that they were a falſe Church, but for the worshipping of God in Idols, as before the calves at Dan & Bethel, or the Idols in Iudah, this is plaine enough in the Hiſtory. So that I cōclude againſt you that Iſrael was no falſe Church in the conſtitutiō, but had a true matter & forme, viz: circūciſed Iſraelites though vnderunder a falſe miniſtery, worship, & government, as I have already shewed in the former treatiſe.
Laſtly, you bring vsus in a double reſpect or conſideration of members of the Chur. of Antich. 1. as they are members of thoſe falſe Chu: 2. as they are the children of beleeving progenitors who receaved the covenant for themſelves & their poſterity: in … firſt reſpect they are not vnderunder the covenāt or ſeale therof in the ſecond reſpect they are vnderunder both, for the Fathers ſake Rom. 11.28. & ſo their repentance shal ſerve their turne when they come to the true Church without rebaptiſing.
I āswer divers things: firſt, I do not deny but that mē may be cōſidered two waies viſibly as members of Antich. body, inviſibly as aperteyning to the L. election, & that is the meaning of the A p. Rom. 11.28. but I deny that hence it foloweth, that when they come from their inviſible being in Ch. to a viſible being in the true viſible Chu. they shal enter in any way but by the dore which is baptiſme: For wheras you intimate that a man being inviſibly elect & beloved of God, & inviſibly having th…ſe to the covenant & holy things of God, may therevppon firſt viſibly enter into the falſe Chu. by falſe baptiſme, & then vppon his repentance come to the true Chu. & enter therinto not by baptiſme, but that the dore of Antich. Chur. shal open him the way into Chr. Church long before he come into Chr. Church, wheras I ſay you intimate vntounto vsus ſo much, you do herby teach contrary to our Saviour Chr. who ſaith that we muſt goe in by the dore, & not climb vp by the window, & that wee muſt firſt bee taught & made Diſc. & thē baptized into Chr. but you in the Kingdom of Antic. are firſt baptized falſely & then made Diſciples flat contrary to Chriſts commaundem.
Secondly I ſay that no man is vnderunder the covenant or vnderunder baptiſme for the parēts ſake: & that is not the meaning of the Ap. Ro. 11.28. but his meaning is that the elect of the Iſraelites are beloved for the promiſe God made to Abrah. Iſaac, & Iacob, in reſpect of Chr: not for that the children shalbe pertakers of that covenant, bicauſe of their parents faith, or bicauſe of Gods covenant made with the parents & ther carnal infants, but bicauſe the L. elected them & predeſtinated them in Chr. to life & ſalvation inviſibly: & therfor I do confidently deny, & you are never able to prove that the carnal infants are actually poſſeſſed of the everlaſting covenant God made with Abrah. for their parents ſakes: do you indeed think that God loveth any man for an other mans ſake or do you think that God loveth not al men of his meer mercy: or for Chr. ſake: neither is it the carnal line that is beloved of God for his mercy ſake or for Chr ſake: but it is the Spiritual line of Abrah. the faithful onelyonly & elect that are beloved for the …hers, that is for the covenant made with Abrah. Iſaac, & Iacob, our Fathers in the faith: & ſo it is true that God loveth men in the falſe Chu. of An. for Abrah. Iſaac, & Iacob, that is for his merciful promiſe made to them: but what is this to prove that Antic. are beloved, & vnderunder the covenant, for their carnal line deſcending from a beleving aunceſtor? or if that were granted how doth it follow that the baptiſme viſibly receaved in the Antich. falſe Chu. is true baptiſme ſealing vp the covenant to them that the L. converteth in the falſe Chu. No: we have already proved that the baptiſme is eſſentially falſe & none of Chr. & therfor it is the character or mark of the beaſt, openly retained in the forhead of al the ſubjects of Antic. who profeſſing themſelves to be of that baptiſme do profeſſe thēſelves to be of that body for of that body they are of whoſe baptiſme they are, & of that baptiſme they are of whoſe body they are, 1. Cor. 12.13. Eph. 4.4. Gal. 3.27. & we have alſo proved that the L. true baptiſme doth not aperteyne to the carnal line, but only to them that are of Abrah. faith, that is actually beleeving to juſtification, & shewing the faith of Abraham by the works of Abrah. Laſtly, wheras you fetch the title to the covenant … to baptiſme, for infants in the falſe Chu. from ſome aunceſtor beleving 40. generations happily before acording to that Exo. 20. that the L. sheweth mercy to 1000. generations of them that love him I answer 3. things, 1. you muſt prove that ſome off our predeceſſors had true actual ſaith & were members of true Ch. & this you muſt prove for every member you receave in without baptiſme therby to aſſure you that he had title to the covenāt & to baptiſme by his carnal line: 2. you muſt by the ſame reaſon receave by baptiſme into the true Chu. (if you can come by thē) al the infants of the Theſſalonians, the Epheſians, the Galatians, the Coloſſians, the Philippians, & the Chu. of Aſia that did ſomtime beleve, 3. I deny that you expound the place Exo. 22. truly: For the L. directly doth require that they vponupon whom hee sheweth mercy should feare him & keep his commaundem: & I do vtterly deny that ever the fore-Fathers of the English nation beleved, & you can never prove it. For that which you ſay that ſeing we are Apoſtates, therfor it followeth that ſomtyme we or our aunceſters had the truth, I wonder at you for ſo ſaying: for we are departed frō the faith of the Scriptures, not from the faith of our aunceſtors, who never a one of them at any tyme beleved viſibly in a true conſtituted Chu. Thus through Gods providence & bleſſing I am come to a happy end of answering your writing: wherin I praiſe the L. for his mercy I have receved ſuch aſſurance of the truth as that you & al the earth shal never be able to wring it out of my hart & hands, & therfor I deſire you Sir, & al the leaders of the Seperation to weigh ſeriouſly even betwixt the L. & their own harts vponupon their beds this which is written, I doubt not but I may erre in particulars, & I have reſolved to be vile befor men in confeſſing my erors, but for the maine points in controverſy, & the cauſe I defend it is the moſt vndoubted & moſt evident …oth that ever was revealed to me: & therfor as you love the L. & his truth, & the people that depend vponupon you, ſeek it out & embrace it, & reſiſt it not, but if we bee in error, shew it vntounto vsus, why? shal we perish through your default? wil not the L. require our blood at your hand? are we not your countrymen al of vsus? in exile for the common truths, we hold out againſt Antich. Answer we beſeech you in the L: nay we adjure you in the Lord: if we be in error it is ignorantly, & of a deſire to ſee the truth & to feare the L: Thus hoping ſpeedily either to heare an answer to this writing, or to ſee you yeeld to the truth which I vnfeynedly ask of the Lo: for you my countrymen, I end writing this 24. of March. 1608.
Iohn Smyth.
Rich. Clifton. If you reply, shew your ſtrength, that we may make an end of theſe vncomfortable oppoſitions, for if I ſee not weight in your reaſons, I wil beſtow no more labour.
Ioh. Smyth. Sir: ther may be weight in my reaſons, & you happily either cannot through prejudice or wil not through ſome ſiniſter reſpect ſe the weight of them: I pray you be not charmed by evil counſel, but either shew me my error, or yeeld to the truth I would be glad to be an inſtrument of shewing you this truth alſo: at leaſt you by shewing vsus our error shal diſcharg a good conſcience: If you do not answer among you al: I proclayme you are ſubtilly blind, & lead the blind after you into the ditch.
FINIS.
End of the text · John Smyth, The Character of the Beast (1609)