The Character of the Beast, Debate 2 · John Smith 8 – Richard Clifton 9
Iohn Smyth.
Your 7. argument is taken from Act. 16.15.33. framed thus.
The Apoſtles practiſe is our inſtruction.
But they baptized not only the Mr. of the Family which beleved, but al his howſhold Act. 16.15.33.
Therfor now alſo the like is to be done: & ſo conſequently infants are to be baptized, for they are a part of the family.
I make answer to this argument confeſſing it wholy, but yet denying the conſequent of your concluſion: For it doth not follow bicauſe al the howshold of Lydia & the Gaylor were baptized, that therfor infants were baptized: you ſhal … what exceptions I take.
Firſt, I ſay though infants are a part of the family when the family hath infants in it, yet it doth not follow that wherſoever ther is mention made of a Family, that therefore that Family had infants in it: except therefore it bee proved that the f…mily of Lyd…, & the family of the Gaylor had infants in it, this allegatiō is nothing.
Secondly, by this reaſon you might prove that Lydias Husband, & the Gaylors wife, & their children of 40 yeeres old, & their Servants of 60. yeeres old, were baptized. For al theſe are parts of a Family, yet I ſupoſe you wil not ſay they were al of them baptized, except you can prove, that Lydia had a Husband, or the Gaylor had a wife, or children of 40. & ſervants of 60. yeeres old: your argumēt therfor is weak preſuppoſing the thing that is in queſtion.
Thirdly, if it were yeelded that ther were infants in Lydias Family, & in the Gaylors, doth it therfor follow that they were baptized? nothing leſſe: & that I will declare thus.
1. You ſay that to the baptiſing of the Gaylors wife, & children of yeeres of diſcretion ther was neceſſarily required Faith & repentance, or els they were not baptized: So ſay, I that bicauſe infants cannot beleeve & repent, though they were in the Family yet shal they not be baptized: For ther is one conditiō required for al perſons to be baptized.
2. I ſay: that although it be ſaid that al that perteyned to the Gaylor were baptized, yet it is alſo ſaid vſus. 32. That the word was preached to all that were in his howſe: & vſus. 34. That al his howſehold beleeved, & how came their faith but by the word preached vſus. 32. Seing therfor that al that were baptized in the Gaylors hows beleeved by the preaching of the word: infants that could not beleeve by the preaching of the word, were not baptized if he had any: beſides it was a mervailous diſtempered tyme at midnight to wake children, & to bring them before the Apoſtles for baptiſme.
3. I ſay: That for Lydias Family it is not ſaid that all her howſehold was baptized: or if it had been ſo ſaid, yet it followeth not that every particular perſon off her Family was baptized. For Mat. 3, 5.6. it is ſaid that al Iudea went out to Iohn & were baptized of him, confeſſing their ſinnes: yet hence it cannot bee concluded that all & every one that went out were baptized: or that all & every one went out to bee baptized: no more can it bee proved that bicauſe it is ſaid that Lydias Family was baptized, that therefore all & every particular perſon was baptized, but as Mat. 3.6. only they that confeſſed ther ſinnes: & as Act. 16.32-34. onley they that beleeved by the word preached were baptized, ſo was it with them of Lydias Family that were baptized: For the Apoſtles I doubt not kept one order, & required the ſame conditions in al that they baptized: So that by that which hath been ſaid the vanity of this argument is manifeſted: & it is proved plainly that none were baptiſed in the Gaylors Family, but only they that beleved after the word preached & ſo infants ſpecially are exempted, if he had any in his family which yet is not manifeſted.
Hence therfor I reaſon thus againſt baptiſing infants.
1. The Apoſtles practiſe is our inſtruction.
But the Apoſtles in baptiſing howſeholds, firſt preached the word to al that were in the Family, Act. 16.32. & then the beleeving were baptized, vſus. 34.33.
Ergo: They only that by the preaching of the word were converted & beleeved were baptized. Againe I reaſon thus.
2. That which the Apoſtles practiſed in one Family, they practiſed in all Familyes that they baptized.
But in the Gaylors Family, according to Chriſts commiſſion, Mat. 28.19. They firſt made them Diſciples by preaching the VVord: Act. 16.32-34,
Ergo: So they practiſed in al Familyes: & therfor in the Family of Lydia, of Criſpus, Act. 18.8. of the Ruler: Iohn, 4.43. & ſo no infants were baptized.
And this shal ſuffice for answer to your arguments.
Mr. Rich. Mr.
Herevnto I wil adjoyne ſome teſtimonyes of the Fathers, not to prove that children ought to be baptized, which is to be done, & is by the Scriptures already proved; but to shew the practiſe hereof in auncient Churches. Auguſtine (as I find alledged) writing to Ierome, Epiſt. 28. chap. 5. Saith Cyprian not making any new decree, but firmely obſerving the Fayth of the Church, judged with his fellow Bishops, that as ſone as one was borne, he might Lawfully bee baptized. See Cyprian Epiſt. to Fidus. And writing againſt the Donatiſts, Lib. 4. Chap. 23. & 24. ſaith, that the baptiſme of infants was not deryved from the authority of man, neither of counſels, but from the tradition or doctryne of the Apoſtles. Civil: vppon Lev: Chap. 8. approveth the baptiſme off infants, & condemneth the iteration of baptiſme. Origine vppon the Roman ſayth, that the Church received baptiſme of infants from the Apoſtles. Nazianzenus in Orat. in S. Lavacrum. 3. ſaith: That baptiſme agreeth to every age, to every condition of life, to all men, if thou haſt an infant, that is Sanctifyed from his infancy, yea from the finger ends it is conſecrated. After hee faith: Some man wil ſay, what ſayeſt thou of infants which neither know what grace is nor payne, what shal wee baptize thoſe? & he Anſweres, yea verily. Amb: Lib. 2. de Abrah. Chap. 11. Speaking of baptiſme, faith, nether Old man nor proſolite, nor infant is to be excepted, bicauſe every age js guilty of ſinne, & therefore ſtands nede of the Sacrament Theſe & many others of the Fathers doe beare witneſſe according to the Scriptures of the Lawfullnes of the baptiſing of inſents.