The Character of the Beast, Debate 2 · John Smith 3 – Richard Clifton 4
Iohn Smyth.
Your ſecond argument followeth: from Coll. 2.11.12. which is framed thus.
If circumciſion belonged to Faythful Abraham & his ſeed, yea to ſuch as were but infants: then doth baptiſme alſo aperteyne to all beleevers & to their ſeed being infants.
But the firſt is true, Gen. 17.10.
Ergo the ſecond.
The reaſon of the conſequent is double: 1. for that baptiſme cometh in place of circumciſion as a ſeale of the ſame promiſes to vsus & our ſeed: Col. 2.11.12. 2. For that the covenant muſt be as largely ſealed vp to vsus as to thē, therfor to our females as wel as males, & infants as wel as perſons of yeeres: For the covenant in Chriſt is not leſſened but of as larg extent now as then: 2. Cor. 1.20. Seing in Chriſt all the promiſes of God are yea & amen.
I answer that this argument is built vppon the ſame falſe ground with the former a meer miſtaking of the covenant, & ſeale, & ſeed: & their is manifeſt violence committed vppon the Scripture by perverting & wreſting it to falſe conſequents: firſt therfor I deny the conſequence & I give reaſons of my deniall.
1. Bicauſe circumciſion did not aperteyne to Abraham & his infants as a ſeale of the everlaſting covenant of life & Salvation, but of the external temporary covenant of the land of Canaan, & of obedience to the Law of Moſes: & therfor though circumciſion aperteyned to Abraham & his carnal infants as a ſeale of the external covenant yet it doth not follow that baptiſme belongs to the Faythful & their carnal infants as a ſeale of the Spiritual covenant of the New Teſtament made in reſpect of Chriſt.
2. Secondly bicauſe the beleevers do not occupy Abrahams place in the covenant of the New Teſtament, bicauſe Abraham is the Father of all the Faythfull, but no man though never ſo Holy hath that perrogative to bee the Father of the Faythfull: Therefore Abraham receaveth the Faythfull into his boſome. Luk. …6.23.
3. Thirdly, bicauſe the infants of the faithful do not poſſeſſe the place of the true children of Abraham the Father of the Faithful: but poſſeſſe the place of the typical children of Abraham according to the Fleshe, & therfor the diſproportion being in al theſe particulars the conſequence of the argument is weake & inſufficient,
But if you wil make true conſequents you muſt reaſon frō the type to the truth proportionably, & not from the type to the type as this argument importeth: neyther muſt you confound the covenants & ſeales as you do: but muſt make al things diſtinct & proportionable the one to the other as thus.
Abraham the Father of the carnal infants: Abraham the Father of the Faithful: Carnal Abraham & his carnal ſeed, carnally circumciſed: So Faithful Abraham & his Faithful Children, Spiritually circumciſed. The carnal infants of the old Teſtament carnally circumciſed: The Spiritual infāts of the new Teſtament, that is, men regenerate baptized.
Thus you ſe the diſproportion of your argument, & the true proportion that you ought to have made if your argument had been good.
But let vsus ſee the reaſons of your conſequence, & the Scriptures you do produce for the confirmation of them: you ſay that baptiſme cometh in the …ome of circūciſion as a ſeale of the ſame promiſes to vsus & our ſeed: I vtterly deny it: & I prove the contrary vntounto you: Seing that the circumciſiō of the hart ſucceedeth in the place of circumciſing the flesh: Rō. 2.29. & circumciſion made without hands cometh in the place of circumciſion made with hands, Col. 2.11. compared with Eph. 2.11. & circumciſion the ſeale of the flesh, hath the H. Spirit of promiſe which is the Spirituall ſeale to ſucceed in place therof, Eph. 1.13.14. which ſeale of the Spirit is the earneſt of our inheritance, as circūciſion of the flesh was an earneſt of the inheritance of the land of Canaan to the carnal Iſraelites: & I deſire to be enformed in al the Scriptures where baptiſme is called a ſeale, for I deny that the baptiſme of water is the ſeale of the new Teſtament, though I cannot deny that the baptiſme of the holy ghoſt is the ſeale.
I ſay therfor that the ſeale of the Spirit muſt go befor the baptiſme of water: & as al the ordinances of the new Teſtament are Spiritual, & yet viſible, ſo is the ſeale of the new Teſtament Spiritual, & yet viſible: & thervppon men being viſibly ſealed with the Spirit as Cornelius company was. Act. 10.47. may challendg the baptiſme with water, as Peter there teacheth: this viſible ſeale of the new Teſtament is confeſſion: as in the old Teſtament circumciſion was their confeſſiō: & baptiſme is not a ſeale but a manifeſtation of the ſeale. You ſee therfor that baptiſme is not the ſeale of the new Teſtament, & that circumciſion did not ſeale vp the everlaſting covenant to Abraham, & al his carnal ſeed: now the place of Col. 2.11.12. which you produce to prove that baptiſme cometh in the rome of circumciſion, is not ſo to be conſtrued, but the Apoſtle teacheth the vertue of Chr. circumciſiō & baptiſme, which is mortifying & burying of ſinne & reſurection from ſinne: & the Apoſt. doth not intend to teach that in the new Teſtament baptiſme ſucceedeth for circumciſion: but hee teacheth the vertue of Ch. circumciſion & baptiſme in the Faithful: ſo that ſeing circumciſion was a ſeale of the promiſes of the old Teſtament to the carnal ſeed, & that the Spirit is the ſeale of the promiſes of the new Teſtament to the faithful ſeed of Abrahā, therfor neither doth baptiſme of water ſucceed circumciſion, neither doth baptiſme with water ſeale vp any promiſes to the Faithfull, but onelyonly doth viſibly declare what promiſes they already are partakers of, viz: of the Spirit of promiſe.
Againe: in your ſecond reaſon you would infinuate a reſtraynt in the new Teſtament, 1. baptiſme be not due to infants ſeing circumciſion was due to infants in the Old Teſtament: I answer many wayes: 1. Seing that baptisme doth not ſucceede circumciſion, this alegation is nothing to the purpoſe: 2. Seing baptisme is both to male & female it is larger then circumciſion which was only vppon the male: 3. ſeing that baptisme is both to Iew & Gentil, therfor more larg then circumciſion: but theſe things are almoſt nothing to the purpoſe: Therfor I ſay more pertinently, That the covenant made with Abraham in reſpect of Chriſt is now as larg as ever it was. For that was never made with Abraham & al his carnal children, but only with Abraham & the Faythful, & ſo it continueth in the ſame tenor ſtil: & it is enlarged now ſince Chriſts comming only in reſpect of the cleerer, & more vniverſal publication o… it: for then the covenant made with Abraham in reſpect of Chriſt was shadowed out darkly in types, now ſince Chriſt it is preached plainly: then it was only to the Iewes, now to al nations, Mat. 28.19. beſides I affirme that circumciſion was never a ſeale of that covenant that God made with Abraham in reſpect of Chriſt, for the Holy Spirit of promiſe is the ſeale of it: but circumciſion only was a ſeale of the external covenant: & the ſeale of the Spirit is as large as the ſeale of the Flesh For all the carnal Iſraelites were carnally ſealed, al the true beleevers are ſealed by the S… ri…al the males were carnally ſealed, al that have the male Chriſt formed in them (whither men or weomen) are ſealed by the Spirit: For in Chriſt ther is neyther male nor female Gal. 3.28. al the carnal ſeed were carnally ſealed whither yong or old, ſo all the Spiritual ſeed are Spiritually ſealed whither new borne babes in Chriſt, or perfect men that are come to the meaſure of the age of the fulnes of Chriſt: & ſo the covenant is not leſſened, taking things in their due proportion, & not perverting them. & whereas you ſay in Chriſt all the promiſes of God are yea & amen, 2. Cor. 1.20. therby inſinuating that in the new Teſtament the covenant muſt be as large as in the old, I confeſſe it to be as larg, but this place is ſtrayned to the proving thereof: For the meaning of it is that vntounto the Faythful all the Lords promiſes are verefied, but his promiſe was never that al their carnal ſeed should have baptisme as a ſeale of life & ſalvation, but that al the beleevers should have the Spirit of promiſe which is the new Teſtaments ſeale.
From that which I have answered to your ſecond argument I reaſon thus.
1. If al the carnal infants of Abraham were never actually vnderunder the everlaſting covenant in reſpect of the actuall poſſesſion of it, then they never had title to the ſeale of the everlaſting covenant.
But al the carnal infants of Abraham were never actually vnderunder the everlaſting covenant in reſpect of the actual poſſesſion of it: Seing that Abrahams children according to his actual Fayth were only vnderunder it, Rom. 4.11.
Ergo: al the carnal infants of Abraham never had title to the ſeale of the everlaſting covenant, & therfor not to baptisme.
2. If baptisme doth not ſucceede circumciſion, then baptisme doth not pertaine to carnal infants though circumciſion perteyned to carnal infants.
But baptisme doth not ſucceede circumciſion, bicauſe the ſeale of the Spirit is correſpondent to the typical ſeale of the Flesh, & baptisme with water is only the manifeſtation of the ſeale.
Ergo, baptisme doth not aperteyne to the carnal infants.
3. If circumciſion did not ſeale vp the everlaſting covenant to Abraham & all his carnal infants: then (by your proportion) baptisme doth not ſeale vp the everlaſting covenant to the Faithful & their carnal infants.
But circumciſion did not ſeale vp the everlaſting covenant to Abraham & all his carnal infants.
Ergo: (by your proportion) baptisme doth not ſeale vp the everlaſting covenant to the Faithful & their carnal infants.
4. If beleeving parents do not ſtand in Abrahams rome to conveigh the covenāt to their infants, then though they be baptized themſelves, yet their children shal not.
But the beleevers do not ſtand in Abrahams rome, to conveigh the covenant to their infants: For no man is the Father of the Faythfull as Abraham was, & he did never conveigh the everlaſting covenant to his carnal infants.
Ergo: though beleeving parents be baptized themſelves, yet ther infants shall not be baptized.
5. If infants of the Faythful do not occupy the place of the true children of Abraham, but only occupy the place of the carnal children: then though the true children of Abraham, 1. the actual beleevers be baptized, yet the infants shal not which cannot actually beleeve.
But the infants of the Faithful do not occupy the place of the true children of Abraham, ſeing the children of Abraham do the Workes of Abraham, Ioh. 8.34. which infants cannot doe.
Ergo though actual beleevers be baptized, yet infants shal not.
And thus much may ſuffice for answer of this ſecond argument which you ſee is as weake as the firſt being built vppon the ſame ſand.
Mr. Rich. Clifton.
Marc. 10.13.14. & Mat. 19.13.14.
3. They that are of the Kingdome of God have right & title to all the Holy things therto belonging, & may perticipate of ſo many of them as they are capable to receave.
But the infants of beleeving parents are of the Kingdome of God.
Therfor the infants of beleeving parents have right & title to al the holy things therto belonging, & may participate of ſo many of them, &c. And conſequently of baptisme, ſeing they are capable of that.
The major propoſition I thinke wil not be denyed, it is written 1. Cor. 3.21.22. Al things are yours, &c. Rom. 9.4.
The aſſumption is Mat. 19, 13-17. For of ſuch is the Kingdome of God, meaning that this Kingdome ſtood not only of ſuch as being of yeeres that beleeved, but alſo of their infants. And this he declareth not only in this ſaing, but alſo by his diſpleaſure againſt his Diſciples for hindering their comming vntounto him: by commaunding to ſuffer them to come, & by putting his hands vppon them, & bleſſing them. Mat. 19.13.14.15. For would Chriſt have bleſſed them that were not of his Kingdome? or do not the bleſſings apperteyne only to the children of the Kingdom, even to the ſeed of Abraham, Gal. 3.8.18.
If it be objected that children are not capable of baptiſme. I anſwere, they are as capable thereof as the infants of Iſrael were of circumciſion, being both pertakers of the ſame promiſes with them. & in al reſpects as capable of the outward ſeales of the covenant, as they were. And therefore the infants of beleevers are to bee baptized.