The Lawfulness of Hearing of the Ministers of the Church of England, Title page – Printer to the reader
A TREATISE OF THE LAWFVLNES OF HEARING OF THE Ministers in the church of England: penned by that learned and Reverent deuine, Mr. Iohn Robinsz. late Pastor to the English church of God in Leyden. Printed according to the Copie that was found in his studie after his decase: and now published for the common good. TOGETHER WITH A LETTER written by the same Authore: and approued by his church: vvhichwhich followeth after this Treatise.
IOHN 7. 24.
Iudge not according to pearance, but Iudge righteous Iudgment.
Printed Anno 1634.
THE PRINTERS TO the Christian Reader.
CHristian Reader. How euer the verie naming of the Author of this following Treatise, vvere sufficient reason for vsus to publish this same vntounto the vvorld, in regard of those large abilities aboue many others, vvhichwhich the Lord had bestowed vponupon him, and in regard he being now at rest, with the Lord, and so hauing finished long since his course in this his pilgrimage, vve cannot expect to hauehave any more vse of his helpe this waye, and although it were great pittie that such a vvorke as this should be concealed for so long time, considering the worke vvas perfected, and vvritted by his owne hand, and so found after his death (which is nine yeares since) in his studie, yet hauehave we thought it good all this while to conceale it, in respect of that desire vve had to the peace of that church, whereof the Author of this Treatise vvas for so many yeares a Pastor. In regard vve did perceiue that some though not manie vvere contrari… minded to the Authors judgement expressed in this Trtatise: And this vve judge to be a sufficient reason of our so long delaying of publishing this Treatise to the world: Yet to our griefe vve hauehave now just cause to put this same on foote; For as vvhen a citie is in danger of enemies to be surprized, it is then high time to take vp all those vvarrlike Munitions vvhichwhich happily before that time vvere cast aside and not regarded, that so they may the better maintaine their citie, and the priuiledges of it against their enemies: so vve judge it as necessarie if not more vvhen vve see the enemies of Gods church to incroach vponupon the priuiledges of the same especiallie vvhen they ayme at the vtter ruinating of it, that then it is high time for vsus to defende the cause of Christ, and it vvas the vvisdome of Iehojada the High Priest perceiuing the malice of Athalia, seeking to destroy the vvhole seed of Iehosaphat, to hide Ioash the right heyre of the Kingdome, and vvhen he sawe a fit opportunitie then to reueale him, and make him knowne, so vve vvho hauehave obserued Athalias spirit in part to be in some, vvho hauehave laboured to assume the power to themselues, vvhichwhich is proper to the church, and so Diotrephes like vvould cast out vvhom they please, and retayne vvhom they thought good, and rather then they vvill be hindred in this their attempt, they vvill labour to rent that church in pieces in vvhichwhich they hauehave liued for manie yeares together, and that vve may not seeme to accuse them of any thing vvithout just reason, vve desire the Christian Reader, and themselues to consider this that followes▪.
First, their schisme or as they call it their leauing of the church, doth arise vponupon this occasion, to wit, that 2. which vvere members of the same church with them hauing vponupon some occasion heard some of the Ministers in England preach, and it coming to the knowledge of some of these vvho hauehave now made this rent the church, they vvould presently hauehave these persons dealt vvithall as for sinne, and if they did not repent after dealing, they vvould hauehave the church to proceed to excomunicate them ipso facto, vvhichwhich the church not willing to consent vntounto, these men could not be satisfied, but they vvould hauehave their owne vvilles done or els they vvould rent from the church, vvhichwhich proceeding of theirs, if it vvere approued of and followed no church could long continue together in peace, for vvhat these foure or fiue men hauehave done, that may any other man doe, so that if any man do conceiue any of his brethren to vvalke in any such sinne, vvhichwhich he judges doth deserue excomunication, if the church will not thereto consent, he may rent himselfe from the same; Although the Author of this Treatise hauehave taught them otherwise, to vvit, that if the church, see not that to be sinne, vvhichwhich I see to be a sinne, I hauing informed the church thereof according to my place, I hauehave disscharged my dutie, and the sinnes lyes vponupon the church (if it be a sinne, and not vponupon me; but it seemes these men do looke for that in the church on earth vvhichwhich is onelyonly to be found in heauen, for themselues hauehave affirmed, and that before diuers witnesses that there is no sinne small or great that is to borne vvithall, and that the verie speaking of a vvord through fraylty about worldly businesses vponupon the Sabbaoth day, should hauehave as seuere a sentence, as he that shall openly & prophanely transgresse against the 4. Commandement, the verie naming of with their opinion, is sufficient to discouer their weaknes, & that we may yet further discouer these mens folly to the world more fully, we will shew you how contrary they are to themselues in this their iudgment, for as they say, and do affirme that there is no sinne vvhichwhich is to be borne withall in the church, yet themselues, or at least the chief of them do practise the contrarie, as for example, one in stead of manie may serue the turne: The chiefe of Author of this trouble doth hold, and so hath for manie yeares together, to vvit, that it is vnlawfull for the members of one church to hauehave communion with another church, and yet not vvithstanding this his judgement, he can beare vvith one, vvho hath contrary to this his judgement practised, and so professeth still to do vponupon occasion, and yet not vvithstanding his so practizing, and so professing, he is receiued among them, and is their chiefe if not their onelyonly Teacher which they hauehave: So that vve may here easily perceiue, that though this man doth vse Iehu's peace against the sinnes of others, with whom he desires to be alienated, yet he can beare vvith as great sinnes in others, in his judgement vvith vvhom he desires to vvalke, we could shew manie more reasons to proue his partialitie, but then vve should exceed the bonds of an Epistle onelyonly vve desire to giuegive the Reader to take notice of those two things: First, that this practize of hearing the Ministers of the church of England, is not against any Article of faith, vvhichwhich is by this church professed, vvhereof the Author of this Treatise vvas a Pastor, it being no Act of Church Communion, for if hearing simplie vvere an Act of Communion, then euerie h…tique, or Atheist, or whatsoeuer he were that should come into the church of God, should hauehave Communion vvith them, vvhichwhich if it vvere true, as this following Treatise proues the contrarie, then it vvere good for eueryevery church that will auoid communion with profane men, to meete in priuate, and then to shut their dore when their own compagnie is meet together: else I cannot see how they can auoid hauing communion with wicked men: to wit if beare hearing be an acte of communion: Secondly, as this hearing is not against any Article of their faith, so likewise it was not in the iudgement of the church esteemed as a thing that might not be borne withall,The letter you shall find after the Treatise. & this may appeare by a copy of a letter which we hauehave heer following published where the church in the counsell which they giuegive to the church of London do sufficiently make it appeare, that their iudgement did manifestlie differ from those which now hauehave made this breach, and which is well to be marked by the reader how that the church when this letter was write: enioyed the Pastor, and their company was fiue tymes greater then it was when this breach was made: & because these men in his their error are vvilling to retraine it, and not being able to make any sufficient reply to the answere made in this Treatise to their obiections, though the manuscript therof hath bene in their hands for many yeares, yet because they will find somthing to say, more then others hauehave done heretofore, though of lesse force, therefore they hauehave ioyned some new obiections which both the seducer and the seduced do thinke are vnanswerable, therfore it will not be amisse for vsus to propound them, and to giuegive some answere to them that so if their stomachs serue they may reply to all at once: First, they obiect and say that we hold the church of England to be a false church, and the Ministers thereof to be Antichristian, and yet we go thither to worship the true God.
Before we answere directly to this objection, we shall intreate the Reader and themselues to consider of this that followes.
First, A church may be said to be false in diuers respects, and according to those respects, vve are to hauehave diuers Considerations thereof, as first, a church may be said to be false in respect of outward order, to vvit, vvhen a church is gathered together, not according to the rule of Christ neither, in their outward gouernement, do they conforme therevnto, now this church cannot be said to be the church of Christ being thus erected, and gouerned contrary to the rule of Christ, but is false and Antichristian, and yet notwithstanding the faith professed by this church, and the doctrines, taught in this church may be sound, and according to God.
Secondly, a church may be false not onelyonly in respect of outward order, but likewise in respect of faith and doctrine.
Now to this latter, vve counsell no man to go, because from thence no good can be expected, and that is the esteeme vve hauehave of the church of Rome.
But now as in a true church in respect of outward order, there may be manie false doctrines taught, so in a church, that is false in respect of outward order, there may be manie sound, and seasonable truths taught, and this esteeme vve hauehave of the preaching in England: Namelie, that the doctrine there taught according to the Articles of their faith is sound, and the effects of it hath appeared, in the vvorking of faith in the hearts of manie thousands.
For the outward order, or meeting there as a church, that concernes themselues, and those that are in vnion, vvith that church estate, but not all that heare them.
Now that worshipping of God which consists in hearing his word is warrantable for vsus to doe in England, we proue it by this argument.
That preaching which ordinarily begets men to the faith of Christ may lawfully be heard.
But the preaching of many Ministers in the Church of England hath, and doth ordinarily beget men to the faith of Christ.
Therefore the preaching of many Ministers in England may lawfully be heard.
The first part of this sillogisme is proued out of Rom 10. where the Apostle telling what is the ordinary vvay God vses to beget men to the faith of Christ telles vsus, it comes by hearing of the vvord of God preached, if faith comes by hearing the vvord of God preached (to vvit, if that be the outward meanes) then there is no question but that a man may heare such preaching, and any man may blush for shame, that shall deny this: so that the major part of the argument is cleare:
And for the Minor parte they cannot deny it, no more then a man at noon day can deny the sunne to shine: for if any man make question whether faith comes ordinarily by the preaching and hearing in England, it is a great question vvether they euer had faith or no: yet because some are so grosse as to deny this, we will therefore: proue the contrarie by this Argument.
That preaching and hearing which makes them which were altogether carnall, and so not capable of a church-estate, to become saints & so fit for a church-estate: That preaching must needs beget men to the faith:
But the preaching and hearing in England, made them that were vnfit & carnall to become saints, and so fit members to the true church, which were not so before.
Therfore the preaching in England and hearing the same doth beget men to the faith: That the preaching, and hearing in England hath done this: Witnesse the church of Leyden, and of Amstelredam.
Let them tell vsus where they receiued their faith: if they say they had it not till they ioyned in these bodies, how could they then be true to their owne grounds, that none but visible Christians are fit matter for the church vvhereas none can be so esteemed except in the iudgement of charitie, we iudge them to hauehave true faith.
But some of these that hauehave made this diuision hauehave not denyed, but faith is wrought by the preaching and hearing in England: and yet which is wonderfull contradiction: they say it is not the vvord of God as it is there preached: so that it seemes there is something besides the vvord of God which is an ordinary meanes to beget men to the faith, and there is another vvord besides Gods vvord that vvill do it; the like absurditie hath sildome bene heard from any that professe them selues to be Christians, and that they may, not seeme to say this vvithout some reason, marke the reason that they bring to proue it, say they we do deny that to be the vvord of God, as it is there preached: by a false Ministry, though the vvord it selfe be of God yet as it is by them preached, it is none of Gods vvord so Gods vvord here stands at fast, and loose, it is Gods vvord, and it is not Gods vvord, as if they should say, it is Gods word if Mr. Canne shall preach it: but if another, that is a Minister in England preach the same it is none of Gods vvord: so that mens outward callings true, or false, makes the vvord to be the vvord of God, or not to be the vvord of God, an assertion rather to be pitied then refuted, being litle better then blasphemy, that which they bring to make this assertion good, to vvit, that any man hauing an outward calling vvhichwhich is vnlawfull makes the vvord of God, vvhichwhich he preacheth, not to be the vvord of God, and this, say they to proue it, it vvas true incense vvhichwhich Nadab and Abihu tooke,Lev. 10. 1. to offer vp to the Lord, but because they tooke strang fire, and not the fire, vvhichwhich vvas from the Altar as the Lord had appointed, therefore the Lord sent a fire to destroy them: so say they, it is the true vvord of God, which is preached in England, but because they preach the same by an vnlawfull office, therefore the Lord abhorres it: A stranger collection I thinke can hardly by heard, for here strang fire is opposed to an vnlawfull outward calling, vvhichwhich nothing can be more absurd, for Nadab and Abihu had a true outvvard calling to offer, they vvere the sonnes of Aaron (saith the text) therfore if any thing hence might be concluded, in iust proportion, it must be to the doctrine taught, and not in the least to the calling: so that vve may from thence gather thus much, that if a Minister in regard of his outvvard calling true: shall teach any thing, that is not from the Lord, they are to expect Gods iudgement for the same, and more cannot hence be collected, further, let it be shewed, that euer any prophet in the old or new Testament vvas euer termed a false prophet in respect of his outward calling, but allwaies in respect of his doctrine; vve can find that such as had true outvvard calling in the true church, yet vvere false prophets in regard of their doctrine in many perticulers as Christ teaches concerning the Scribes and Pharises for their false expounding of the Law, let them shew the like for outvvard callings: Thus hauehave vve thought good, hauing bene eare vvitnesses of these things here propounded to set downe our censure of them, desyring the Lord to make this vvhole vvorke (for the generall good now set forth) take effect in those that louelove the Trueth.
Fare you wel.
OF The lawfulnes of hearing the Ministers, of the Church of England, by Iohn Robinson.
AS they that affect alienation from others make their differences as great, and the adverse opinion or practise as odious, as they can; thereby to further their desired victorie ouer them, and to harden themselues, and their side against them: So on the contrarie, they, vvho desire peace and accord, both interprete things in the best part that reasonnablie they can and seek hovv, and vvhere they may finde any lavvfull dore of entry into accord, & agreement vvhat others. Of vvhichwhich latter number I professe my selfe (by the grace of God) both a companion and guide: speciallie in regard of my christian countrimen, to vvhom God hath tied me in so manie inviolable bonds: accounting it a crosse, that I am in any perticuler compelled to discent from them; But a benefite, and matter of reioiceng, vvhen I can, in any thing vvith good conscience, vnite vvith them, in matter: if not in manner; or vvhere it may be, in both. And this affection, the Lord, and my conscience are my vvitnesses, I hauehave alvvaies norished in my breast, euen vvhen I seemed furthest dravvne from them. And so all that hauehave taken knovvledge of my course can testifie vvith mee, and hovv I hauehave still opposed in others, and repressed in mine ovvne (to my povver) all sovver zeale against, and peremptorie rejection of such, as vvhose holie graces chalenged better vse and respect from all christians.
And in testimonie of mine affection this vvay, & for the freeing of mine ovvne conscience, and information of other mens: I hauehave penned this discourse, tending to proue the hearing of the vvord of God preached by the Ministers of the church of England: (able to open and applie the doctrines of faith by that church professed) both lawfull, and in cases, necessarie for all, of all sects, or sorts of christians, hauing opportunitie and occasion of so doing: though sequestring themselues from all communion with the Hierachicall order there established.
Three sorts of opposites I make account to meet vvithall. The first of them, vvho truly desire, and carefully endevour to hauehave their whole course both in religion, and othervvise, framed by the holy, and right zeale of Gods Word, either for their confirmation in the trueth; or reformation, vvherein, through humane frailtie they) step aside. And vntounto them especiallie I direct this my discourse: begging at his hands vvho is the Father of lights, Iem. 1. 17and from vvhom commeth downe euerie good and perfect gift, for them, as for my selfe, that as he hath giuen vsus to set our faces tovvards heauen, and to seek him vvith the vvhole heart, Psal. 119. 6.so he would not suffer vsus to vvander from his commaundements, to the right hand, or to the left.
A second sort is of them, vvhose tender and scrupulous conscience, makes them fearefull, and jealous of euerie thing, vvhichwhich hath in it the least appearāce or shevv of euil: least comming too neare it, they be defiled by it, one vvay or other. This their godly zeale, and tender nes of heart is to be loued of all men, and cherished by all good meanes. OnelyOnly such are to be intreated, for their ovvne good, to take knowledge of a distinction most vsefull for their direction, in things lawfull in their kinde, and good in their right vse. Of vvhichwhich some are onelyonly naturallie good in their kinde, but not simply commaunded of God, as, to get, and keep the riches, and credit of the vvorld; to enjoy outvvard peace, or other bodly comfort. Others are morallie good in their kinde, and commaunded of God, as to heare the vvord of God, obey the Magistrate, and the like, Novv in things of the former sort, it is verie requisite (considering both their nature and ours) that vve keep a jealous eye, and strait hand ouer our selues, and our waies. For them, they are not in their kinde enjoyned as the other: neither do the scriptures any vvhere require of men, to be rich, or the like: as they doe to hear Gods Word, obey authoritie, &c. And for our selues we are proue, and in danger to ouerstraint for the getting, and enjoying of them, as being naturallie pleasing good things. So as if out of a godly jealousie ouer our hearts tovvards them, vve keep not our selues from going too neer the side, for the getting, or keeping of them: vve shall by one storme of temptation or other, be blovvne in to the ditch of sin and destruction. But now, for the practise and performance of duties simplie morall, and commaunded in their kinde, as is the hearing of Gods Word, speciallie by Gods people, vve ought to strain to the vtmost, and to go as neer the vvinde, as may be: seing nothing but apparant sin in the vvay can excuse the vvithdravving from it, vvhen occasiō of enjoying it is offred. Oh that there vvere not to be found vvho being verie scrupulous of comming neer to any thing amisse in outvvard ordinances: or to any person failing in them: yet make no scruple of complying, and conforming vvith the vvorld so farre in the eagre pursuit of wordlie profits: immoderate vse of vvorldlie delights and fulfilling the lusts of the vvorld and flesh dvvelling in them, as that there appears scarse an hayr-breath, or difference betvveene them and meer vvorldlings, vvhichwhich know not God. Which latter euils are both vvorse in themselues, as being expreslie condemned by the lavv of God, and light of nature: and more odious in the persons: as being more personall, free and voluntarie, then those in the other, to vvhichwhich they are carried by the violent courrent of the times.
A third sort of opposites I make account to meet vvith, more vntractable then the former: and more vehementlie bent against the thing propounded by me, out of prejudice and passion, then the other by scruple of conscience, or shevv of reason. To them I can hardlie say any thing: (it not being their manner to read, or vvillinglie to hear that vvhichwhich crosseth their prejudices) yet something I must saic touching them, out of the vvofull experience of manie yeares taken of them, though not much I thanke the Lord, amongst them, vntounto vvhom I hauehave ministred.
Some of these I hauehave found carried vvith so excessiue admiration of some former guides in their course, as they think it halfe heresie to call into question any of their determinations, or practises. We must not thinke, that onelyonly the Pharisees of old, and papists of later times are superstitiously addicted to the traditions of the elders, and authoritie of the church. In all Sects there are diuers (speciallie of the vveaker sort, vvho being the lesse reall in their conceptions, are the more personall) that rather chuse to followe the trodde of blinde tradition, if beaten by some such foregoers, as they admire, then the right vvaie of Gods Word by others to be shewed them aftervvards.
Some again are as much addicted to themselues as the former to others: conceauing in effect, though they vvill not professe it, the same of their owne heads, vvhichwhich the papists do of their head the Pope, viz: that they cannot erre, or be deceaued: and this speciallie in such matters, as for vvhichwhich they hauehave suffred trouble, and affliction formerlie: and so haueing bought them deare, they valew them highly. But it is to marchantlike, to striue to ouer fell a thing, vvhichwhich vve hauehave formerlie ouer bought: vve must buy the trueth, and not fell it, at any rate: but must account nothing either true or good, according to the valuation vvhichwhich vve hauehave set vponupon it, but God.
There is also a third sort highly aduanceing a kinde of priuatiue goodnes and religion: and vvho bend their force rather to the vveaking of other men in their courses then to the building vp of themselues in their owne: and in trueth rather to seperation from men not onelyonly in euill, but euen in that vvhichwhich is good, for some other euill conceaued in them, then to vnion vvith God, and his people in his holie ordinances: and halfe imagining that they draw neer enough to God if they can vvithdraw far enough from other men. Great zeale they hauehave against the false church, ministerie, and vvorship so being, or by them conceaued so to be; and against any appearing euill in the true, but litle for that vvhichwhich is true and good, as their practice manifests: but euill is as contrarie to euill, as good is to euil; and so is that zeale plainlie carnall, vvhichwhich carries a man further against euill, then for good: seeing no euill is fo euill as good is good.
Fourthly, there are some to be found so sowred vvith moodines, & discontentement as they become vnsociable, & almost Lukanthropoi, Werewolfs, as they speake, if they se nothing lamentable, they are readie to lament. If they take contentment in any: it is in them alone, vvhom they finde discontented. If they read any bookes, they are onelyonly invectiues, speciallie against publique states, and their gouernours. All things tending to accord and vnion any manner of vvay are vnwelcome vntounto them. They hauehave their portion in Ismaels blessing.Genes. 16. 12.
Lastly there vvant not, vvho (as Iehu in his fierce marching, couered his ambition, crueltie, and zeale for his owne house vnderunder the pretext of zeale for Gods) thinke to couer, and palliate their own both grosser and more proper, and personall corruptions, vnderunder a furious march not onelyonly against the failings, but the persons also failing of infirmitie, in matters of church order, and ordinances. Who if they vvere vvell acquainted, and duly affected with their owne both more voluntarie, and greater sins, vvould slack their Iehus peace, yea turn their course, though not to vvalke vvith others in euill (vvhichwhich God forbid) yet to apply, & accommodate themselues vntounto them, in that which is good, so far as possiblie they could obserue any vvay by the Lord opened vntounto them. I could instance in, and name diuers perticuler persons monstrouslie growne out of kinde, this vvay. But that course I leaue vntounto them, vvho rather desire the disgraceing, then the bettering of them against vvhom they deal: or perhaps conceaue in their leauened hearts that there is no other vvay of bettering, speciallie persons of meant condition, then by shameing, and disgrac…ing them.Genes. 49. 5. 6. But let not my soule come in their secrete, in vvhose habitations are such instruments of cruellic.
These things thus promised, the objections follovv, vvhichwhich I hauehave either heard from others, or can conceaue of my selfe most coullerable against the practize by me propounded. And they are of two sorts. Some of them are framed vponupon supposition, that the ministres in that church are in themselues lawfull, & of God: but not yet to be heard by reason of the abuses, and euills to be found in their ministrations. Others vvithdraw hearin (& those the more) vponupon the contrarie supposition: to vvit, that the very order and constitution of that church and ministerie is papall, and vnlawfull. Novv the examination of the grounds of the one or other I vvill not in this place, medle vvith: but (though both cannot be true) vvill for the satisfieng of the vvithdrawers on both parts, graunt for the present, to either part their ground, and so examine distinctlie vvhat exceptions they can or doe build herevpon.
But first, for the former. Supposing a church, and the ministerie, thereof essentiallie lavvfull, it cannot but be lavvfull for the members of other churches in generall vnion, and assosiation, vvith it to communicate therevvith, in things lavvfull, and lavvfullie done: seing the end of vnion is communion. God hath in vain vnited persons, and states together, if they may in nothing communicate together. But he, who vvould hauehave vsus receaue the vveak in faith, vvhom God hath receaued, vvould not hauehave vsus refuse the fellovvship of churches in that vvhichwhich is good, for any vveaknes, in them, of one sort or other. And this vve hauehave so plainlie, and plentfullie commended vntounto vsus both by the Prophets, yea by Christ himselfe in the Iewish church; and Apostles, and Apostolicall men in the first christian churchs; in which many errours, & euils of all kindes vvere more then manifest: and the same oft times both so farre spread, and deeply rooted, as the reforming of them vvas rather to be vvished, then hoped for: as that no place is left for doubting in that case by any, vvho desire to follovve their holy steps in faith tovvards God, and charitie tovvards men, and effectuall desire of their ovvne edification.
The objections of the former sort follovv.
1. OBIECTION.
There is danger of being seduced, and misledd by the errours taught in the astemblies.
ANSWERE.
1. We must not loose the benefite of many main trueths taught,Matth 5. chap 23. for daunger of some few errours.2. Cor 11. 19. …. Ioh. 4. 1. 3. Speciallie in lesser matters.Let such read Parker of church policy, lib. 1. c. 39 This vvere to feare the deuill more then to trust God, 2. There vvere in the Ievvish church in Christs time, and in divers of the Apostolicall churches aftervvards, more & greater errours taught, then are in any, or ail the churches of England: of vvhichwhich also there are not a fevv, vvhichwhich if their ministers did as fully and faithfully teach and practize all trueths, as they keepe themselues carefully from errours, might compare in this busines, vvith any reformed church in Europe. 3. This exception hath its vvayt against the hearing of Priests and Iesuites, speciallie by the vveaker sort, and lesseable to discerne of things that differ: But not against many ministers of the church of England.