Justification of Separation from the Church of England, Treatise · Section 154
The 8. & 9. errours imputed to us are, that we hold none of their 8. & 9.Ministers may be heard: & that it is not lawful to ioyn in prayer with any of them.
Sundry things Mr B. brings to evince the former position of errour,Answ: but not one of them so much as tending to prove it lawfull to partake in an office of Ministery eyther devised or vsurped with out lawfull calling, as that in Engl: hath been proved to be. It is not true then which he sayth, that we censure any for hearing the word: we do it for partaking in other mens sinns: and for receiving the 1 Tim: 5. 22. Rev: 18. 4. Chap: 14. 9mark of the beast, in cōmunicating with the Ministery of Antichrist; as we assuredly know yours to be the office, & enterāce into it (notwithstāding the truthes taught, & personal graces in the teachers) and for obstinacy in the same. It is true then, but not pertinent, which Mr B. sayth, that it is a good thing to hear the word: which who denyes but the Church of Engl: that silēceth the Preachers of it for her own, & the Popes inventions? & that tyes the people to their unpreaching parish-preists, rather then permits them to hear a Preacher in the next parish?
Other things obiected by him are els where handled: yet seemesSeparists schism. Pag 153 154. it not amisse to ad something touching three scriptures by him produced, and appy'ed to his purpose: & they are Mat. 23. 1. 2. 3. Phil. 1. 15. 18. Tit. 3. 10. 11.
And first, there is not one of these scriptures that gives so much as any colour of coūtenāce to the hearing of the word ministered in a false Church, devised office, and by vertue of an vnlawfull calling: or where any of these barres are put: and by all these we do beleeve & affirm our selves to be kept from hearing you. And this generall defence I do apply vntounto the particulars, and first to the first: answering, that the Scribes, and Pharisees did neyther minister to any but the Lords people, the Israell of God, nor in an vnlawfull place, nor by an vnlawfull enterance, how corruptly soever they ministred: & for corrupt administrations, besides the cō stitutiō, in the true Church, we do not think the Ministers are eyther suddeynly, or vnorderly to be forsaken. To which I do ad further, first, that the words do sit in Moses chayr, and whatsoever they bid you do, may more strictly after the Greek be turned have sit in MOSES chayre, and have bidden you observe, that is, what you have heard of them formerly according to Moses, that do, and observe. But let the words be as they are, and that Christ speakes of the time to come, yet I see not how in them, the LORD eyther commaunds, or approves of his disciples hearing the Scribes, & Pharisees in their publique, and solemn administrations: but if he speak of them, then he may onelyonly permit his DISCIPLES in respect of their weaknes, and being (for the present) too much addicted vntounto them, so to hear them: or otherwise Christ may speak of such occasionall meetings and conferences, as passed ordinarily between the Pharisees, and his disciples: wherin what was of Moses, he willes them to receive from them, without praejudice of their persons: and so we do also will, and exhort the people with vsus to receive, and reteyn whatsoever of God they hear from you, or any others vponupon the like occasion. And considering, that in the first verse Christ spake vntounto the Math. 9. 11. & 17. 10.multitude, and to his disciples, (laying no more vponupon his disciples in this case, then vponupon the multitude) and what respect the disciples had the Pharisees in, and how oft, and vsually they met, and medled together, it is very probable, that Christ, vponupon this supposition, that the disciples would, or should hear, or meet with them, intends onelyonly to provide, that the word of God may reteyn all due authority with his, in that confused estate wherein all things then stood: neyther cōmaunding, nor approving the hearing of them.
And considering what Christ himself testifieth of the Scribes, & Pharisees in that very chapter, that they *v. 13.shut vp the kingdom… of heaven before men, neyther going in themselves, nor suffering them that would: †ver. 15.making those of their profession two-fold more the children of hel, then thēselves: what haeresies they taught touching justificatiō by works, and perfect obedience to the whole law, how they made voyd the commaundements of God for their own traditions: how they denyed in Christ both the person, and office of the Messiah: blaspheming him in his doctrine as a deceiver of the people; in his life as a glutton, and drinker of wyne; and in his most glorious miracles as one that wrought them by the "Divel; considering I say these things, it should be strange that Christ should eyther send his disciples to be taught by these blynde guides, or approve of their hearing them, him self also being the onelyonly“v: 8. 10. doctour and teacher of his Church. And this I would know of you Mr. B: & of others which vrge this scripture, as here you doe, whether you would like it well, or be content, that the disciples should hear any such corrupt, haereticall, and blasphemous teachers, as were the Scribes, and Pharis…es, and that denyed both the office, and person of Christ, as they did. You your selfe teach in this very †15 4.page that obstinate haeretiques are not to be heard: and such were the Pharisees yea so malitiously obstinate in their haeresies, as that the Lord Iesus insinuates agaynst them, the very*Ma…he 12. 31. sin of blasphemy, agaynst the H: Ghost. If then you your selves would allow your disciples to hear teachers far lesse corrupt, and haereticall then were the Scribes, and Pharisees, to what purpose do you produce, and insist vponupon Christs allowance of his disciples to hear them? Is this fitly to alledge the scriptures, or not rather to take Gods name in them in vayn;
To the other scripture, which is Phil: …. 15. 16 answer hath been given both by others, and by my self formerly: and I now do ad, that those there spoken of, which preached Christ of envy, and strise, had corrupt inward affections so appearing to the Apostle by that speciall spirit of discerning which was in him, though not so discovered vntounto others: but what makes this to such as minister in an office devised, and by an enterance found out by Antichrist, and so left to them, which think his mark a priveledge.
Touching your 3. Argument, which is from Tit▪ 3. 10. 11. I do first observe your graunt, that private persons, and such as are not in office may reiect obstinate hare…iques, and so by consequence, that the thinges, which Paul writes to Timothy, and Titus touching the reformation of abuses, and censuring of offendours, do not concerne the officers onelyonly, much lesse the cheif officers, but even the brethren also in their places. 2. There is no consequence in your Argument, that bycause obstinate haretiques may not be heard, …herefore vsurpers may. You might as sensibly argue thus: bycause “1 Cor. 5. 11. 12.a fornicatour▪ must not be eaten with, but iudged by the Church, therefore a covetous person, an idolatour▪ a rayler may be eaten with, and must not be judged, contrary to the Apostles expresse writing.
In your 9. charge, namely that we hold it not lawful to ioyn in prayer with any of you, and in your comment vponupon it, you do vsus a double injury; first in saying we approve not of any of your praying for vsus: 2. That wee pray for you onelyonly as wee do for Iewes, Turks, and Papists. For as wee are perswaded we fare the better for the prayers of many amongst you, and so both approve of, and desire the same; so do wee also pray for many as for the Lords people in Babylon, and that they may at the Lords call, *Revelat. 18. 2. 4▪go out of her: and that as they are holy in their persons, so they may be also in their Church communion, and ordinances.