Conferences Between Two Fathers and Martyrs — Nicholas Ridley

Conferences Between Two Fathers and Martyrs · Nicholas Ridley

In the name of Iesus let euerie knee bowe. Philip. 2.

A Busshop owghte to be vnreproueable / N. Ryd. Tit. 1.as the Stuarde off godde / &c. cleauinge faste to the trew worde off doctrine / &c. Tit. 1. All worldly respectes putte aparte / off shame / deathe / losse off goodes / and worldely commoditees: Lett me hauehave I praye you / your aduyse in these matters folowynge. Thatt is your assent / ād cōfirmatiō in those thinges / whiche you iudge that godde doth allowe / and your best cownsell and aduertisemēt / wher you thinke otherwise / and your reasons for both the same. For the wiseman sayeth:Prou. 18. One brother which is helped of another is Like a well defensed Citee.

The causes thatt moue me to absteyne frome the Masse be these.

It ys done in a strawnge tounge which the people doth not vnderstande / contrarie to the doctrine off the Apostle / 1. Cor. 14.1. Cor. 14.

Wher is no vnderstandinge / H Latym.ther is neither edifyenge / nor conforte: for besydes that they speake in to the ayer / the minde receiueth no proffet: They are one to another as alienes / the Parissheners will saye their priestes are madde / wheras all thynges owghte to be done so as they maye ediffie. Let euerie man knowe / that the thynges which I write (sayth S. Paule) are the commaundementes of the lorde.1. Cor. 14. Suche absurditees are to be eschewed.

N.R.Ther is also wantynge the shewynge off the lordes deathe / contrarie to the minde off the Apostle: As often as ye shall eate this breade / and drincke off this Cuppe / 1. Cor. 11.ye shall shew the Lordes deathe / till he come. What shewinge can be ther / wher as no man heareth / that it to saye vnderstādeth what is sayde: No man (I meane) off the commen people / for whose proffet the prayer of the churche oughte specially to serue.

H. L. Luc. 11.Woo be vntounto you that take awaye the keye off knowlege. The Papistes studie by all meanes to make the people ignorante / Lest theyr ignorante sir Ihons shuld be hadde in Lesse estimation / or despised: which is cleane contrarie to Saint Paules practise / who wisshed that all men myghte be fulfilled with all knowledge / and to be perfite in Christe Iesus / Coloss. 1.&c. The institution of Christe / if it wer rehersed in the vulgare tounge / shulde be / not only a Consecration / but also a frutefull preachinge / to the edification off the hearers / wher as in the popisshe Masse it is neyther vnderstanded / nor hearde: whils the commen people are vtterly ignorāte / what their preestes doo / or what they goo abowte / whether they blesse / or curse. The Apostles vnderstoode Christe / when he celebrated his supper / Therfore doo these papistes swarue frome Christe in theyr Masse.

Ther is no Communion / but it is made a priuate Table / and in dede owght to be a Communion.N. R For S. Paule sayeth. The breade which we breake / 1. Cor. 10.is the partakynge of the bodie of Christe. And Christe brake / and distributed / and sayde. Take / Matt. 26.and eate / &c. But that they make it a priuate table / it is open.The papistes make the lordes table, a priuate table For wher they be manie preestes which will communicate / they doo it not in one Table / or aulter / but euerie one off them hauehave their aultars / masses / and tables.

To make that priuate which Christe made commen / and willed to be communicated / H.L.maye seme to be the workmanshippe of Antichriste hym selfe. The Canons of thapostles doo excommunicate them / which beinge presente at commē prayer / &c.Cano. 10. doo not also receiue the holy communion.De Cons. dist. 1. cap. Epis. And vntounto the same agreeth the decree of Anacletus. When the consecration is done (saieth) he let all such communicate / as entend not to be excommunicate.

That which is firste / is trew / that which is Latter / is cownterfayted / sayeth Tertulliane. But the papistes saye we doo it priuately Bicawse we doo it for others.Tert. contra Praxeam. But wher hauehave you your Commission to Masse / and sacrifice for others?

N.R.The lordes commaundement of communicating the cuppe vntounto the laye people is not obserued according vntounto the worde of the lorde: drincke ye all of this.Matt. 26.

As often as ye shal eate this bread / and drincke of this cuppe / H.L. 1 Cor. 11.ye shal shew the lordes deathe &c. so that not the partaking of the one onlye / but of bothe is a shewing of the lordes deathe bicause in his deathe the bloude was deuided from the bodie / it is necessarie that the same diuision be represented in the supper / The lordes death is not shevued, excepte both partes of the Sacrā. be ministred. Thargument of K. Henry the 8. 2. Cor. 11.otherwyse the supper is not a sheuing of the lordes deathe / &c. Let a man examine hym selfe / &c. But this worde (Homo) is of bothe gendres / therfore it is as wel commaunded to the woman to drincke of the cuppe / as the man / &c. But the Kings argumente once againste me was this. Whē ye come to gither to eate. He saieth not / (saiethe he) to drincke / I aunswerid it was not neadfulle seing that a litle before he had made mention of bothe / in theise wordes. And so let hym eat of that breade / and drincke of that cuppe. Homo / that is to saye aswel the woman as the manne. VnderUnder the name of bread which betokenethe all sustinaunce of the bodie / drincke is also vnderstanded in the scriptures. Otherwise they woulde saye that Christe did not drincke after hys resurrection withe his disciples excepte Peter had saide:Acto. 10. We did eate and drincke with him after he arose from deathe.

They doo seruyllye serue the holye sygne (as S. Augustine speaketh) in steade of the thinge signiffied / whiles the sacramentall breade by a solenne or commen errour is adored / and worshipped / for the flessh taken of the sonne of godde.N.R. L. 3. dedo. Chris. c. 9.

Iff ye denie vntounto them theyr corporall presence / H. L.and transubstantiation / theyr phantasticall adoration will by and by vanissh awaye. Therfore be stronge in denienge suche a presence / and then ye hauehave wonne the felde. Furthermore / in the first supper celebrated off Christe himselfe / ther is no mention made off adoration off thelemētes / who sayd / Eate ye / and drincke ye / not worshippe ye. Therfore againste Adoration maye be spoken that saynge off Christe concerninge diuorse.Matt. 19. Frome the begynnynge it was not so. But the deuill secretlie / and by litle / and litle / infecteth all Christes ordināces / and as for the priuate Masse / with all the sinewes theroff / what maner offthinge it is / may be easelie perceaued by the readie acceptation off the people / whose heartes are prone to euell euen frome theyr yowthe.Gen. 8.

They plucke awaye the honour frome the onlye sacrifice off Christe / N.R.whiles this sacramentall and Masse sacrifice is beleued to be propitiatorie and suche a one / as purgeth the sowles both off the qwicke and the deade. Contrarie to that is writton to the Hebrewes. With one offringe hath be made perfect for euer them that are sanctified.Hebr. 10. And agayne wher remission off these thinges (that is off synnes) is / ther is no more offring for synne.

H. L. Hebr. 2.By hys owne person hath he purged owr synnes. These wordes (by his owne person) hauehave an Emphasis / or vehemence / which driueth awaye all sacrificinge priestes / frome suche office off sacrificinge: seinge that which he hath done by himselfe / he hath not lefte to be perfited by other / so that the purging off owre synnes may more trulye be thowgthe paste / and done / then a thinge to comme / and to be done. Yff anie man synne / &c. He sayeth not / …. Ioan. 2.Let him hauehave a prieste at home to sacrifice for him / But / We hauehave an Aduocate / the vertue off whose one oblation / endureth for euer. S. Paule sayeth / …. Cor. 9.They that serue the Aultare / &c. euen so the Lorde hath ordeyned / that they which preache the gospell / sholde liue off the gospell. Why doth he not rather saye / they that sacrifice in the Masse?

Ther be manyfold abuses and superstitions / which are done in the Masse / N.R. Coniuringe of salte, vuater, & breade.and abowte the Masse. Salte is coniured / that it may be a coniured salte for the saluation off the beleuers / to be a saluation / and health hoth off the mynde / and off the body vntounto euerlasting lyffe / to all them that receiue it.

Water is coniured / that it maye be made a Coniured water / to chase awaye all the power off the enemy / to chase awaye deuels / &c. Breade also hath his seconde blessinge / that it maye be health off mynde / and bodie / to all them that receiue it. Yff we doo thinke that such strengthe is to be geuen / to salte / water / and breade / or if we iudge that these thinges are able to receiue anie such vertue / or efficacie / what leaue we to Christe our sauior? But if we thinke not so / why then doo we praye on this sorte? Forasmoch as all prayer owght to be done in fayth.

As towching the abuses off the Masse / H.L. A booke agaynst the masse made by D. turner.I referre you to a litle booke / the title wheroff / is (Mystresse Missa) wher she was iustely condemned / and banisshed vnderunder payne off burning. But the deuel hath browght her in agayne / to bringe vsus to burnynge.

The prieste turneth himself frome the Aultar / N.R.and speaketh vntounto the people in an vnknowē tounge / sainge / Dominus vobiscum / orate pro me fratres et sorores / &c. that is the Lorde be with you / and praye for me brothers and susters / and turnyng frome the people / he sayeth in Latin: Let vsus parye / and / The peace off the Lorde be allwayes with you: Also the people (or at least / he wihch supplieth the place off the people) is cōpelled three tymes to saye Amen / when he hath hearde neuer a worde off that the prieste hath prayed / or spoken / excepte these few wordes / Per omnia secula seculorum / Wher as to the answering off Amen / S. Paule willeth the answerer not only to heare / …. Cor. 14.but also to vnderstande the thinges that wer spoken.

H. L.Yea / and Ite Missa est / must be songe to them with a greate rollinge vp and downe off notes / So bydding thē goo home fasting / when he hath eaten / and dronken vp all himself alone. A felowe ones rebuked for goinge awaie before Masse was ended / answered / that it was not goode maner to tarie till he wer bydden goo. After that he was blamed for not taking holy breade / he answered / that he was bydden goo awaye before.

N.R. Vuordes ovute of the Canō of the Masse.The preeste when he lifteth vp the sacrament / he murmureth to himself these wordes: Hec quotiescunque feceritis in mei memoriā facietis. That is / As often as ye doo these thynges ye shall doo it in remembrance off me. He semeth by hys wordes to speake vntounto the people / but he suffreth not hys voyce to be heard off the people.

H. L.I can not tell to whome the Masse man speaketh as he is a lyfftynge / seinge that neyther Christe badde hym lyfte / neyther is the people allowed to doo those thinges / and as for that fourme of wordes / it is off their owne framinge. But the papistes doo all thinges well / be they neuer so moche deceiptefull workers / taking apon them the viser and Title off the churche / as it wer shepes clothing / as though they wer the ministers of rigteousnesse / 2. Cor. 11▪wher as in dede they are the deuels ministers / whose ende shal be accordynge to theyr dedes. They rolle owte theyr Latine Language by hearte / but in so doynge they make the poore people of Christe alltogether ignorāte: and so moche as in them lyeth / they kepe them backe frome that which S. Paule calleth the beste knowlege:1. Cor. 2 which is / to knowe rightly the thynges which are geuen vntounto vsus of Christe. Butt this is the matter / so longe as the priestes speake Latine / they are thoughte of the people to be meruelouse well learned.

Apon the which vouche safe to looke with thy mercyfull and chearefull cowntenance.N. Rydl.

What meaneth this prayer for the sacramente it selfe / if it be / as they saye / the body off Christe / Vuordes ovute off the Canō off the Masse.if it be godde and man? How shuld the father not looke with a chearefull countenance apon his onelyonly welbeloued sonne? Why doo we not rather praye for owre selfes / that we / for hys sake / maye be looked apon off the father / with a chearefull countenance?

To thys let them answer / that so praye:H. L. Excepte parauenture thys prayer was vsed longe before it was estemed to be the body of Christe / really / and corporally: and then thys prayer maketh well to destroye the popissh opinion / that it is not the opinion off the church / nor so awncyēt / as they bable. Ther be other prayers off the masse / which parauenture be off lyke effect / but I hauehave forgotten all Massing matters / and the Masse it selfe I vtterly deteste / and abhorre / and so I confessed openly / before our Diotrephes / and other.

A nother pece of the Canon of Masse. N.R.Commawnde these to be caried by the handes of thy holye Awngell vntounto thy hyghe Aultar / &c. If we vnderstande the body and bloud of Christe / wherfore doo we so soone desyre the departure off them / before the receipte off the same? and wherfore broughte we them theder by makyng of them / to let them goo so soone?

Write agayne I besech you / fathers / and brethern / moste dearely beloued in Christe / spare not my paper: For I looke er it be longe / that owr commen enemye will fyrst assaulte me / and I wissh frome the botome off my harte / to be holpen / not onelyonly by your prayers / but also by your holsome cownsayles.

H L. Matt. 17.As Peter. Whā he said (let vsus make her three tabernacles) spake and wiste not what / so parauenture our Masse men can not tell what they saye / speaking so manifestly agaynst thē selfes: So that the olde prouerbe maye verie well be spoken of thē / Lyars hadde nede to hauehave goode memories.A prouerbe.

Agaynst the sacrifice of the masse yet more by Hughe Latymer.

Ihon Bapt: saieth / Ioan. 3.A man can receiue nothing excepte it be geuen him frome heauē / and S. Paule. No man taketh honour vntounto hymselfe / butt he that is called of godde / as was Aaron / &c.Hebr. 5. But to offer Christe is a greate and weyghtie matter / ther fore oughte no man to take it apon hym withowte a manifest callinge / and commission. Butt wher hauehave our sacrificers so greate an office committed vntounto them? Let them shew theyr commission / and then sacrifice. Parauenture they will saye (Doo thys) is all one to saye / as (offer this) Then I aske what was ther doone? what was demonstrated by thys pronowne (This) or what dyd they see done / to whome these wordes (Doo this) wer spokē? yf the hole action off Christe / if all that Christe dyd / be mente by thys worde (This) and (Doo) is nothing els but (offer) then the hoole action off Christe is to be offred off the priestes: neyther can they / but in so doynge satisfie the cōmawndemēt: And so it shuld appeare / that neither was ther anye sacrament instituted for the laye people / seyng that no such sacrifice / hath ben done at anie tyme / or is to be done / of the laye people: neyther doth it auayle much to eate or drinke it / butt onlye to offer it. Now the texte hath not that any parte of Christes action was to offer / forasmoch as the texte doth not declare that Christe himself did then offer. And so the action off offering is not conteyned in thys pronowne (Thys) Goo thoroughe euerie worde. Firste / to take / is not to offer / to breake / is not to offer / to geue to the disciples / is not to offer / &c. Worcester sayd ones to me / that to offer / was conteyned in (benedicere) which is not true / for (benedicere) is to gyue thankes. But he hadde often geuen thankes to godde before / withowte any such offering. And if in giuynge of thankes Christe offered his bodie / seinge after he hadde geuen thankes / he sayed (this is my bodie) then in speaking those wordes / he dyd not chawnge the breade into his bodie / for as moche as he hadde offered / before those wordes wer spoken.Hebr. 2. S. Paule hath these wordes to the Hebr. speakinge off Christe. That he myght be mercifull and a faythfull highe prieste in thynges concernyng godde / for to pourge the peoples synnes. So that it maye appeare that the pourgyng of owr synnes doth rather hange heroff that Christe was the highe prieste offering / then that he was offered / sauinge in that he was off himselfe willingly offered. Then is it not necessarie / he shuld be offred off others: I will not saye a meruelouse presumpteouse acte / that the same shuld be attempted off anie / withowte a manifeste vocation for it is no small matter to make an oblation: And yet I speake nothinge that it tēdeth partely to the derogation off Christes crosse / besydes also that the offerer / owghte to be off more excellencye then the thynge offered.

The minister of the gospell hath rather to doe for Christe withe the people / thē for the people withe god / excepte it be in praynge / and giuinge of thā kes / and so hathe the people aswell to doe with god for the minister / the office of reconciliation stādithe in preachīge / not in offeringe. We are messangers in the rowme off Christe (Sayeth S. Paule) he doth not saye / 2. Cor. 5.we offer vntounto godde for the the people.

Yf Christe offered in his supper: for whom I praye yow? For all: Then his latter oblation made on the crosse / cā not be thought to be done for all mē / . for it was not done for them / for whom the oblation was made in the supper / excepte perauenture he offerid twise for the selfe same. And that shulde argue the vnperfectues of the sacrifice.

Feede ye asmuche as in you liethe the flocke of Christe / 1. Petr. 5.naye sacrifice raither for the flocke of Christe / if the matter be as it is pretended / and it is mervelle that Peter did forget so highe an office seinge in thes daies sacrificinge is somuche estemed / preachinge almoste nothinge at all. Who arte thou if thow ceaseste to feede? a goode catholike. But who arte thou / if thou ceaseste to sacrifice and saye masse? at the leaste an heretike. From whēce come theis peruerse iudgementes? excepte parauenture they thincke that in sacrificinge they fede / and thē what neadethe a lerned pastoure? seinge no manne is so folishe but he canne sone learne to sacrifice / and saye Masse.

Paule wrote two Epistles to Timothie / one to Titus / two cleargie mē / he made also a longe sermon ad clerum / Act. 20. but not one worde of this masse sacrifice / Acto. 20.which coulde not hauehave ben done / if ther hadde ben suche a one and so highlie to be esteamed.

I hauehave redde ouer of late the newe testamente thre or foure tymes deliberatly / yet can not I fynd ther / The synevues of the masse can not be foū de in the nevue test.nether the popish consecration / nor yet their transubstantyacion / nor their oblation / nor their Adoration / whiche be the verie synewes / and mary bones of the Masse. Chryste could not be offered but propitiatorely / yet nowe (hoc facite) doo this: muste be as muche to say / as sacrifice / and offer my bodye vnderunder a piece of bread / auaylable / but we can not telle how muche. Ah theafes. HaueHave ye robbed the realme with your sacrifice of landes / and goodes / and nowe can not tell how muche your sacrifice is auailable? as who saye it is so much auailable that the valeu cā not be expressed / nor to deare boughte with bothe landes and goodes.Esa. 64. The eye hath not sene / and the eare hathe not hearde / &c. This is a fine spunne threade / a conninge pece of worcke worthelie qualified / ād blaūched be ye sure. But oure nobilitie will not see / they will not hauehave that religion that hathe the crosse annexed to it.

Al popishe thinges for the moste parte are mannes inuentions where as they oughte to hauehave the holie scripture for the onlie rule of faithe. When Paule made allegation for him selfe before Felix the highe deputie / he did not extende his faithe beyonde the worde of god writtē beleuing all things (saieth he) which are written in the lawe / Acto. 24.and the prophetes / making no mention of the Rabbins. Moreouer they hauehave Moses and the prophetes (saieth Abrahā in the parable) not their persones / Luc. 16.but their writinges. Also faith cometh by hearinge / and hearinge / by the worde of god.Rom. 10. Luc. 11. Hieron. in. 23. Matth. Aug. cōt. lit. Petil. l. 3. c. 6. And agayne: blessed are they which heare the worde of god / &c. The thinges which hauehave not theyr authorite oute of the scriptures / maye as easely be despised / as allowed / sayeth S. Hierome. Therfore whether it be of Christe / or of his church / or of any other maner of thinge which belongeth to oure faythe / and liffe / I will not saye / Yf we (sayeth S. Augustine) which are not worthy to be compared to him that sayed: Yff we / Gala. 1.butt that also which forthwith he addeth / Yf an Aungell frome heauen shall teache any thynge besides that ye hauehave receiued in the scriptures of the lawe and gospell / accursed be he.Diotreph▪ is described Ioan. ep. 3. Our Diotrephes / with hys papistes are vnderunder this Curse. But how are the scriptures (saye they) to be vnderstanded?De doctr. Christ. S. Augustine answereth giuynge this rule. The Circunstances of the scriptures (sayeth he) lyghten the scriptures / and so on scripture doth expownde another / Li. 3. c. 28.to a man that is studiouse / well willinge and often callynge apon godde in contynualle prayer / who geueth his holye spirite to them that desyre it of him.Luc. 11. 2. Pet. 1. So that the scripture is not of anie priuate interpretation at anie tyme. For such a one thoughe he be a laye man / fearinge godde / is moche more fytte to vnderstande holye scriptures / then any arrogante and prowde prieste / yea / then the bysshop hymselfe / be he neuer so greate / and glystering in all his Pontificalles. But what is to be sayed of the Fathers? How are they to be estemed? S. Augustine answereth giuyng thys rule also / that we shulde not therfore thinke it true bicawse they saye so / doo they neuer so moche excelle in holynes / or learnynge: but if they be able to prooue theyr sayeng by the canonicall scriptures or by goode probable reason:Ep. 19. ad Hieron. meanynge that to be a probable reason (as I thinke) Which doth orderly folow apon a righte collection and gatheringe oute of the scriptures.

Lett the Papistes goo with theyr longe fayth / be you contented with the shorte fayth of the sayntes / which is reueled vntounto vsus in the worde of god written. Adew to all popissh phantasies / Amen. For one man / hauing the scripture and goode reason for hym / is more to be estemed himself alone / then a thowsand such as they eyther gathered together / or succeding one another.Panorm. C. significasti extra de appellat.

The fathers hauehave both herbes and weedes / and papistes commenly gather the weedes / and leaue the herbes. And they speake many tymes more vehemently in sounde of wordes / then they dyd meane in dede / or then they wolde hauehave done / if they hadde forseene what sophisticall wrāglers should hauehave succeded them. Now the papistes are geuen to brawle aboute wordes / to the mayntenance off theyr owne inuentions / and rather folow the sounde of wordes then▪ atteyne vntounto the meanynge of the fathers / so that is daungerouse to truste them in citynge the fathers.

In all aeges the deuel hath styrred vp some lyghte heades to esteme the sacramentes butt lyghtly / as to be emptie and bare signes / whome the fathers hauehave resisted so fearsely / that in theyr feruour they seme in sownde off wordes to runne to farre the other waye / and to geue to moche to the sacramentes / when they dyd thynke more mesurably. And therfore they are to be redde warely / with sownde iudgement. But our papistes / and they seme but a litle soundinge to their purpose / they will owte face / brace / and bragge all mē / it must nedes be as they will hauehave it. Therfore ther is no remedie / namely now when they hauehave the mayster bowle in theyr hande / and rule the roste / but patience. Better it is to suffer what crueltye they will putte vntounto vsus / then to incurre goddes hyghe indignation.

Wherfore goode my Lorde be of goode cheare in the Lorde: with dew cōsideration what he reqwireth of you / and what he doth promesse you. Our commē enemye shall doo no more then godde will permitte hym.1. Cor. 10. Godde is faythfull which will not suffer vsus to be tempted aboue our strength / &c. Be at a poynte what ye will stande vntounto / sticke vntounto that / and lett them both saye and doo what they liste. They can butt kylle the bodie / which otherwise is off it self mortall. Neyther yet shall they doo that whan they liste / but when godde will suffre them / when the howre apoynted is comme. To vse many wordes with them / it shall be but in vayne / now that they hauehave a bloudye and deadely lawe prepared for them. But it is verie requisite that ye geue a reasonable accowmpte off your fayth / if they wille qwietly heare you Elles ye know in a wicked place off Iudgement a man may kepe silence / 1. Pet. 3.after the example off Christe. Lett them not deceiue you with theyr Sophisticall Sophismes / Luc. 23.and fallacies: you knowe that many false thynges / hauehave more apparence of truthe / then thynges that be moste true: therfore Paule geueth vsus a watche worde.Coloss. 2. 2. Tim. 2. Let no man deceiue you with lyklynesse of speache. Neither is it requisite that with the contentiouse / ye shuld folow strife of wordes / which tende to no edification / butt to the subuersion of the hearers / and the vayne bragginge and ostentation of the aduersaries.

Feare off death doth moste perswade a greate number. Be well ware of that argument / for that perswaded Shaxton (as many men thoughte) after that he hadde ones made a goode profession / openly before the iudgement seate. The flessh is weake / but the willingnesse off the spirite / shall refressh the weakenes off the flessh.

The number off the cryars vnderunder the aultare must nedes be fulfilled:Apoc. 6. if we be segregated therunto / happie be we. That is the greatest promotion / that godde geueth in this worlde / Phil. 1.to be such Philippians to whome it is geuen / nott only to beleue / butt also to suffer / &c.

But who is hable to doo these thinges? Surely all our habilitee / all our sufficience is off godde. He requireth / and promyseth. Let vsus declare our obedience to hys wille / whan it shalbe requisite / in the tyme of troble / yea in the myddes of the fyre.

Whan that numbre is fulfylled / which I wene shall be shortely / then hauehave at the papistes / when they shall saye Peace / 1. Thess. 5.all thynges are safe / when Christe shall comme to kepe his greate Parlamente / to the redresse off all thynges that be amysse. But he shall not comme as the papistes fayne hym / to hyde himself / and to playe bopiepe as it wer / vnderunder a piece off breade: but he shall comme gloriously / to the terrour and feare off all papistes / but to the greate consolation and comforte of all that will her suffer for hym.1. Thess. 4. Conforte your selfes one another with these wordes.

Lo syr / her hauehave I blotted your paper vaynely / and played the foole egregiously / but so I thoughte better then not to doo your reqweste at thys tyme. Pardon me / and praye for me: praye for me I saye / praye for me I saye. For I am sometime so fearefull / that I wold creape into a mowschoole / sometyme godde doth visitte me agayne with his comforte. So he commeth and goeth / to teach me to fele and to knowe myne infirmitee / to thintente to geue thankes to hym that is worthye / least I shuld robbe hym of his dutye / as manye doo / and almoste all the worlde. Fare you well.

What credence is to be geuen to papistes it maye appeare by theyr rackynge / wrythinge / wrynginge / and monstrously iniuryeng of goddes holy scripture / as appeareth in the popes lawe. But I dwell her now in a scoole of obliuiousnesse. Fare you well ones agayne. And be you stedfaste / and vnmoueable in the Lorde.1▪ Cor. 15. Paule loued Timothee meruelouse well / nott withstanding he sayeth vntounto hym / Be thow partetaker off the afflictions off the gospell: and agayne.2. Tim. 1. 2. Tim. 4. Apoc. 2. Harden thy selfe to suffer afflictions. Be faythfull vntounto the death / and I will geue the a Crowne of lyfe / sayeth the Lorde.

To H. Latymer.

IN writyng agayne ye hauehave done me an vnspeakeable pleasure and I praye that the Lorde maye reqwyte it you in that daye.N. Rydl. For I hauehave receyued greate comforte at your wordes / butt yett I am nott so fylled withall / but that I thurste moche more now thē afore / to drinke more of that Cuppe of yours / wherin ye mingle vntounto me profytable with pleasaunte. I praye you goode father let me hauehave one draughte more to comforte my stomacke. For surely except the Lorde assiste me with his graciouse ayde in the tyme of his seruice / I knowe I shall playe but the parte of a white lyuered knight. But truly my truste is in hym / that in myne infirmitee he shall trye hymself strōge / and that he can make the cowarde in his cawse to fighte lyke a mā. Syr now I looke dayely when Diotrephes with his warriours shall assaulte me wherfore I praye you goode father / for that you are an olde sowldyar / and an experte warriour / and godde knoweth I am but a yonge sowldyar / and as yet of smalle experience in these fyttes / helpe me I praye you to buckle on my harnesse. And now I wolde hauehave you to thynke / that these dartes are caste at my heade off some one of Diotrephes or Antonius sowldyars.

The obiection of the Antoniane.

All men meruelle greately / why you / after the libertee which you hauehave graunted vntounto you / Anton. obiect. 1.more then the reaste / doo not goo to Masse / which is a thynge (as you knowe) now moche estemed off all men / yea and off the Qwene her selfe.

The answer.

Bicawse no man that Layeth hande on the plowghe and looketh backe / N. Ryd. Luc. 9.is fytte for the Kyngdome off godde. And also for the selfe same cawse / why S. Paule wolde not suffer Titus to be circū cised / which is that the truthe of the gospell mighte remayne with vsus vncorrupted. Gal. 2. and againe / Gal. 2.Iff I buylde agayne the thinges which I destroyed / I make my selfe a trespasser. This is also another cawse / least I shuld seeme by owtewarde facte to allowe the thynge / which I am perswaded is contrarie to sownde doctrine: and so shulde be a stumblynge stocke vntounto the weake. But woo be vntounto hym by whome offense commeth / it wer better for hym that a Milnestone wer hanged abowte his necke / and he caste into the myddes of the sea.Matt. 18. Marc. 9.

Except the Lorde helpe me ye saye / Truthe it is. For withowte me (sayeth he) ye can doo nothinge / moche lesse suffer death off our aduersaries / H. L. Ioan. 15.through the bloudye Lawe now prepared against vsus. But it foloweth / if ye abyde in me and my wordes abyde in you / aske what ye will / and it shall be done for you. What can be more comfortable? Syr you make answer your selfe so well / that I can not better it. Syr I begynne now to smelle what you meane by traueling thus with me. Yow vse me as Bilney dyd ones when he conuerted me / pretending as though he wold be tawghte off me / he sowghte wayes and meanes to teache me: and so doo you / I thanke you therfore moste hartely. For in dede you minister armour vntounto me / wheras I was vnarmed before / and vnprouyded / sauinge that I geue my selfe to prayour for my refuge.

What is it then that offendeth you so greately in the Masse / Anto. obiect. 2.that ye will not vouch safe ones eyther to heare it / or see it? And frome whence commeth thys new religion apon you / hauehave not you vsed in tymes paste to saye Masses your selfe?

N. Ryd. Ansvu.I confesse vntounto you my faulte and ignorance / But knowe you that for these matters I hauehave done open Penaunce Longe agoo both at Paules Crosse / and also openly in the pulpett at Cambridge / and I truste godde hath forgeuen me this myne offence / for I did it apon ignorāce. But if ye be desyrouse to know / 1. Tim. 1.and will vouchsafe to heare / what thynges doo offend me in the Masse / I will rehearse vntounto you those thynges which be moste cleare / and seme to repugne mooste manifestly agaynst goddes worde. And they be these. The straunge tounge: The wante off the shewynge off the Lordes death: The breakynge of the Lordes commawndement of hauyng a communion: The sacrament is not communicated to all / Matt. 26.vnderunder bothe kyndes / accordynge to the worde off the Lorde: The signe is seruyllie worshipped / for the thinge signiffyed. Christes Passion is iniuryed / forasmoch as this Masse sacrifice is affirmed to remaine for the purginge off sin̄es: To be shorte / The manyfolde superstitions / and triflynge fondenes whych are in the Masse / and abowte the same.

H. Laty.Better a few thynges well pondered / then to troble the memorie with to moche. You shall preuayle more with prayeng / then with studyeng / thoughe mixture be best. For so one shall alleuiate the tediousnesse off the other. I entend not to contend moche with thē in wordes / after a reasonable accowmpte off my fayth geuen / for it shall be butt in vayne.

They will saye / as their fathers saied / Ioan. 19.Whē they hauehave no more to saie. We hauehave a lawe / ād by our lawe he owght to dye / Be ye stedfast ād vnmouable saieth saincte Paule / ād agayne / persistito / stande fast.1. Cor. 15. 2. Tim. 3. Ioan. 15. Col. 1. And how ofte is this repeted / if ye abide / yf ye abide &c. But we shall be called obstinate / sturdie / ignoraūte / headye / and what not? So that a man hath nede of muche patience hauing to do with suche men.

But yow knowe how great a crime it is to separate your selfe from the communion or feloushippe of the churche / and to make a schisme / or diuision.Anton. obiect. 3. You hauehave ben reported to hauehave hated the secte of the Anabaptistes / and alwaies to hauehave impugned the same. More ouer this was the perniciouse erroure of Nouatus / and of the heretikes called (Cathari) that they woulde not communicate with the churche.

I knowe that the vnitye of the churche is to be retained by al meanes / and the same to be necessarye to saluation.N. Ryd. Ansvu. But I do not take the masse as it is at this daye / for the communion of the churche / but for a popisshe deuyse / wherby bothe the commaundemente and institution of oure sauior Christe for the ofte frequēting of the remēbrance of his deathe / is eluded / and the people of god is miserablye deluded. The secte of the Anabaptistes / and the heresie of the Nouatians / oughte of righte to be condemned / for as muche as with oute anye iuste or necessarie cause / they wickedlye separated them selfes from the communion of the congregation / for they did not alledge that the sacramentes were vnduelye ministred / but turninge awaie their eies from them selfes / wher with accordinge to saincte Paules reule they oughte to examine them selfes / 1. Cor. 11.and castinge theyr eyes euer vponupon others / either ministers / or communicātes with them / they alwaies reproued some thinge / for the which they absteined from the communion / as from an vnholie thinge.

H. Laty. Hilarius contra Auxent.I remembre that Caluine beginneth to confute the Interim after this sorte withe this sayeng of Hilarie. The name of peace is beautifull / and the opinion of vnitee is fayre / but who doubteth that to be the true and onlye peace of the churche / whiche is Christes?

I woulde you hadde that litle boke there shulde you see how muche is to be geuē to vnitie.Rom. 15. S. Paule when he requireth vnitee / he ioyneth streyght withall / Secundum Iesum Christum / accordyng to Iesus Christe / no further. Diotrephes now of late dyd euer harpe apon vnitye / vnitye. Yea Syr (quod I) but in veritee / not in poperye. Better is a diuersitee / then an vnitye in poperye. I hadde nothinge agayne / but scornefull gieres / with commaundement to the Tower.

But admitte there be in the masse that perauenture mighte be amended / or at leaste made better / Anton. obiect. 4.yea / seing you wil hauehave it so / admitte ther be a faulte / yf yow do not consente therto / why do you troble your selfe in vaine?Cypr. l. …. ep. 2. Au. ep. 152. doo not you knowe bothe by Cyprian and Augustine that communion of sacramentes dothe not defile a man / but consente of dedes.

Yf it wer anye one trifling ceremonie / N. Ryd. Ansvuer.or yf it wer some one thinge of it selfe indifferēte (althoughe I woulde wishe nothinge shulde be done in the churche whiche dothe not edifie the same) yet for the continuance of the commen quietnes I coulde be contente to beare it. But for asmuch as thinges done in the masse tende openlye to the ouerthrowe of Christes institution / I iudge that by no meanes either in worde / or dede I oughte to consente vntounto it. As for that whiche is obiected oute of the fathers / I acknowledge it to be wel spokē / if it be well vnderstanded. But it is mente of them whiche suppose they are defiled yf anie secret vice be either in the ministers / or in them that communicate with them. And is not mente of them whiche doo abhorre superstition / and wicked traditiōs of men / and will not suffer the same to be thruste up on them selfes / or vponupon the churche / in steade of goddes worde / and the trewethe of the gospel.

The verye maye bones of the masse are all to githerH. Laty. detestable / and therfore by no meanes to be borne withal / so that of necessitye the mendinge of it / is to abolisshe it for euer. For yf yow take awaie oblation / and adoration / which do hange vponupon consecratiō and transubstantiacion / the most papistes of them all will not sett a button by the masse / as a thinge which they esteame not / but for the gaine that foloweth theron. For yf the Englyshe communion whiche of late was vsed / wer as gainefull to them / as the masse hathe ben heretofore / they woulde striue no more for their masse: From thens groweth the griefe.

Anton. obiect. 5.Consider into what daungers you caste your selfe / yf you forsake the Churche: and you can not but forsake it / if you refuse to goo to Masse. For the Masse is the sacrament off vnytie / withowte the Arke ther is no saluation. The Churche is the Arke and Peters shyppe. Ye knowe thys saying well in oughe / Aug. li. 4. de Sym. c. 10. In ep. post col. contra Donat.He shall not hauehave godde to be his father / which acknowlegeth not the Churche to be his mother. More ouer withoute the Church (sayeth S. Augustine) be the lyfe neuer so well spente / it shal not enheritte the kyngdome of heauen.

The holie Catholique or vniuersalle Churche / which is the communion of sayntes / N. Ryd. Ansvuer. 1. Tim. 3. Apoc. 21. Ephes. 1.the howse of godde / the Citee of godde / the spowse of Christe / the bodie of Christe / the pyller / and staye off the truth: This Church I beleue accordinge to the Creede. Thys Church I doo reuerence / and honour in the Lorde. But the rewle off this church is the worde off godde / accordyng to which rewle / we goo forward vntounto lyffe. And as many as walke accordyng to thys rewle / I saye with S. Paule / peace be apon them / Gala. 6.and apon Israel which perteyneth vntounto godde. The guyde off this Churche is the holie ghooste. The markes / wherby this Churche is knowen vntounto me in this darke worlde / Phil. 2.and in the myddes of this Crooked and frowarde generatiō / are these. The syncere preachinge of goddes worde. The due administration off the sacramentes. Charitee / and faythfull obseruynge off Ecclesiasticall discipline accordyng to the worde off godde. And that Church or congregation which is garnisshed with these markes / is in verie dede that heauenly Hierusalem / which consisteth of those / Apoc. 21. Ioan. 3. Gala. 4.that be borne frome aboue. Thys / is the mother of vsus all. And by goddes grace / I will Liue / and dye the Chylde of thys Churche. Forthe off thys (I graunte) ther is no saluation / and I suppose the residew of the places obiected are rightly to be vnderstanded of thys churche only.In op. im. Homi. 49. in Matth. In tymes paste (sayeth Chrysostome) ther wer many waies to knowe the Churche of Christe / that is to saye / by goode lyffe / by miracles / by chastitee / by doctrine / by mynistringe the sacramētes. But frome that tyme / that heresies dyd take holde off the churches it is onlye knowen by the scriptures which is the true church. They hauehave all thinges in owtwarde shewe / which the true church hath in truthe. They hauehave temples lyke vntounto ours / &c.

And in thende concludeth. Wherfore only by the scriptures doo we knowe which is the true churche. To that which they saye / the Masse is the Sacramente of vnitie. I answer / The breade which we breake / accordinge to the institution of the Lorde / 1. Cor. 10.is the sacramente off thunitee of Christes Mysticall bodye. For we beynge manye / are one breade / and one bodye / forasmuch as we all are partakers of one breade. But in the Masse / the Lordes institution is not obserued / for we be not all partakers of one breade / but one deuoureth all / &c. So that (as is it is vsed) it maye seme a sacramente off singularitee / and off a certen speciall priuelege for one secte off people / wherby they maye be discerned frome the reaste / rather then a sacrament off vnitee / wherin our knyttinge together in one / is represented.

Yea / Whatt felowshyp hath Christe with Antichriste?H. Laty. Therfore is it not lawfull to beare the yoke with papistes. Cōme forthe frome amōge thē / and separate your selfes frome them / sayeth the Lorde. It is one thinge to be the churche in dede / another thinge to countrefayte the churche.2. Cor. 6. Wolde godde it wer well knowen / what is the forsakynge of the churche. In the kynges dayes that deade is / who was the churche of Englande? The kinge and hys fautors / or Massemongers in corners? Yf the kynge and the fautors of his procedinges / why be not we now the churche abidinge in the same procedinges? Yf clancularie Massemongers myght be of the churche / and yett contrarie the kinges procedinges / why maye not we aswell be off the churche contrarienge the qwenes procedynges? Not all that be couered with the title off the church / are the churche in dede. Separate thy selfe frome thē that are suche saieth S. Paule: frome whom?1. Tim. 6. The texte hath before. Yff anie mā folowe other doctrine / &c. he is pufte vp / and knoweth nothinge / &c. Weighe the hole Texte / that ye maye perceaue what is the fruyte of contentiouse disputations. But wherfore are such men sayd to knowe nothynge / when they knowe so many thynges? You knowe the olde verses.

Hoc est nescire, sine Christo plurima scire.

Si Christum bene scis, satis est, si caetera nescis.

That is / This is to be ignorante / to knowe manie thīges withoute Christe. Yf thow knowest Christe well / thow knowest inough / though thow knowe no more. Therfore would S. Paul know nothing / 1. Cor. 2.but Iesus Christe crucified. et c. As manie as are papistes / and massemongers / they maie well be saide to knowe nothing / for they know not Christe / forasmoche as in theyr massinge they take much awaie from the benifite and merite of Christe.Anton. obiect. 6.

That church which you hauehave described vntounto me / is īuisible / but christes church is visible & knowē. For els why would Christ hauehave saide / dic Ecclesie / Tel it vntounto the church?Matt. 18. For he hadde commaunded in vaine to goo vntounto the churche / yf a man can not tell whiche is it.

N. Ryd. Ansvu.The churche which I hauehave described is visible / it hath members whiche maie bee seen / and also / I hauehave afore declared / by what markes and tokens it maie be knowen. But if either our eies are so daselled / that wee can not se it / or that Sathan hath brought suche darkenes into the worlde / that it is hardde to discerne the true church: that is not the faulte of the churche / but either of our blindenesse / or of sathans darkenesse. But yet in this most depe darkenesse / there is one moste cleare candle / which of it selfe alone is able to put awaie all darkenesse. Thy worde is a candle vntounto my feete / and a lyght vntounto my steppes.Psal. 119.

The church of Christe is a Catholique or vniuersall church dispersed throughout the whole world:Anton obiect. 7. 2. Tim. 2. Matt. 25. Mat. 3.13. This church is the great house of God / in this are good men and euel mingled together / goates and sheepe / corne and chaffe / it is the nette whiche ga: thereth of all kinde of fishes: This churche can not erre / because Christe hath promised it his spirite / which shal lead it into all truth / Ioan. 16. Mat. 16.28and that the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it / that he will bee with it vntounto thende of the worlde: What so euer it shall lose or binde apon earth / shalbe ratified in heauen / &c.1. Tim. 3. Cōtra epi. funda. c. 5. This churche is the piller / and staie of the treuth / this is it for the whiche S. Augustine saith he beleueth the gospell. But this vniuersall church alloweth the Masse / because the more parte of the same alloweth it / Therfore &c.

I graunt that the name of the churche is taken after three diuerse maners in the scripture.N. Rydl. Ansvu. Sometime for the hole multitude of them which professe the name of Christe / of the which they are also named christians. But as S. Paul saith of the Iew / Rom. 2. Rom. 9.Not eueryevery one is a Iew / that is a Iew outwardly et c. Neither yet all that bee of Israell / are counted the seed. Euen so not eueryevery one which is a christian outwardly / is a christian in deed.Rom. 8. For if any manne hauehave not the spirite of Christe / the same is none of his. Therfore that church which is his body / and of which Christ is the heade / standeth onelyonly of liuing stones / and true christians / 1. Pet. 2.not only outwardly in name and title / but inwardli in harte and in truth.

But forasmuch as this church (whiche is the seconde takinge of the churche) as touching the outward felowshippe / is contained within that great house / and hath with the same / outwarde societie of the sacramentes and ministerie of the woorde / many thinges are spoken of that vniuersall church (whiche S. Austen calleth the mingled churche) whiche can not truely be vnderstanded / but onelyonly of that purer parte of the churche. So that the rule of Tyconius concerning the mingled church / may here well take place.Augu. de doc. Crist. l. 3. cap. 32. When there is attributed vntounto the whole churche / that whiche canne not agree vntounto the same / but by reason of thone parte therof: that is either for the multitude of good mē / which is the churche in deed / or for the multitude of euell men / whiche is the malignante churche / and synagoge of Sathan:Apo. 2. And is also the thirde takinge of the churche / of the which / although there be seldomer mentiō in the scriptures / in that signification yet in the worlde / euen in the most famouse assembles of christendome / this churche hath borne the greatest swynge. This distinction presupposed / of the three sortes of churches / it is an easye matter / by a figure called Synecdoche / to geue to the mingled and vniuersall churche / that which canne not truelye be vnderstanded / but onelyonly of thone parte therof.

But if any manne will stiflye affirme that vniuersalitie dooth so pertaine vntounto the churche / that whatsoeuer Christe hath promised to the church / it muste needes be vnderstanded of that / I woulde gladly knowe of the same man / wher that vniuersalle churche was in the tymes of the patriarches / and pophetes / Exod. 17. 3. Reg. 19. Hiere. 6.of Noe / Abraham / and Moses (at such tyme as the people wold hauehave stoned hym) of Helias / of Hieremie: in the tymes of Christe / and the dispersion of the Apostles / in the time of Arius when Constantius was Emperour / Theo. ecc. his. l. 2. c. 15 61.and Felix bisshoppe of Rome / succeded Liberius. It is worthie to be noted / that Lira writeth apon Mathew.Lyra in Matt. The churche (sayeth he) doth not stande in men by reason off theyr power / or dignitee / whether it be Ecclesiasticall / or seculer / for many princes ād popes / and other inferiours hauehave ben fownde to hauehave fallen awaye frome godde. Therfore the churche consisteth in those persones / in whome is true knowlege / and confession of the fayth / and off the Truthe. Euell men (as it is in a glose of the Decrees) are in the churche in name / and not in dede.De poenit. dist. 1. c. ecclesia. Lib. 1. c. 33. And S. Augustine / contra Crescomū gram̄aticū sayeth / Who so euer is afrayed to be deceiued by the darkenesse off this qwestiō / let hym aske cownsell at the same church of it: which churche / the scripture doth poynte oute withoute any doubtefulnesse. All my notes which I hauehave written and gathered owte of such authors as I hauehave redde in this matter / and suche like are com̄e into the hādes of such / as will not let me hauehave the leaste of all my writtē bookes: wherin I am enforced to complayne of them vntounto godde / for they spoile me of all my labours / which I hauehave takē in my studye these many yeares. My memorie was neuer goode / for helpe wheroff I hauehave vsed for the moste parte / to gather owte notes of my readinge and so to place thē / that therby I might hauehave hadde the vse of them / when the tyme required. But who knoweth whether this be goddes will / that I shulde be thus ordred / ād spoiled of the poore learninge I hadde (as me thoughte) in stoore / to thintēte that I now destitute of that / shuld frome hēceforth learne onelyonly to knowe with Paule / 1. Cor. 2.Christe / and hym crucifyed. The Lorde graūte me herin to be a goode yonge scoler / and to learne this lesson so wel / that neither deathe / nor liffe / wealth / nor woo / &c. make me euer to forgette that. Amē. Amē.

I hauehave no more to saye in this matter / for you your selfe hauehave sayd all that is to be sayed.H. Laty. That same vehemente sayeng of S. Augustine. I wolde not beleue the gospelle / &c. was wonte to troble manie men / as I remember I hauehave redde it well qualiffied off Philippe Melanchton / but my memorie is alltogether slypperie. This it is in effecte. The churche is not a iudge / Mel. de eccles.but a witnesse. Ther wer in his tyme that lyghtly estemed the testimony of the churche / and the owtwarde ministerie of preachynge / and reiected the owteward worde it selfe / stickinge only to theyr inwarde reuelations. Such rasshe contempte of the worde / prouoked and droue S. Augustine into that excessiue vehemence. In the which / after the bare sownd of the wordes / he might seeme to such as doo not attaine vntounto his meanynge / that he preferred the churche farre before the gospell / and that the Churche hath a free Authoritee ouer the same: but that godly man neuer thoughte so. It wer a saynge worthy to be broughte forthe agaynst the Anabaptistes / which thinke the open ministerie to be a thinge not necessarie / if they anie thinge estemed such testimonies. I wolde not sticke to affirme / that the moore parte of the greate howse / that is to saye of the hoole vniuersall churche / maye easely erre And agayne / I wolde not sticke to affirme / that it is one thinge to be gathered together in the name off Christe / and another thinge / to comme together with a Masse off tholye ghooste goynge before. For in the firste Christe ruleth / in the latter the deuel beareth the swinge: and how then can anie thinge be goode that they goo abowte? frome thys latter shall our Sixe Articles comme forth agayne into the lyghte / they them selfes being verie darkenesse. But it is demaunded / A questiōwhether the fownder or better parte of the catholyque church / may be seene of men / or no? S. Paule sayeth:Ansvuer. The Lorde knoweth them that are his. What maner of speaking is this in commēdation of the lorde / if we knowe as well as he who are his? Well / thus is the texte: The Sure fowndation of godde standeth still / and hath this seale: the Lorde knoweth them that are hys / and let euerie man that nameth the name of Christe departe frome iniquite. Now how many are ther of the hoole Catholique church of England which departe from iniquite? How many of the noble men / how many of the bysshops or cleargie / how many of the ryche men / or merchauntes / how many of the qwenes cownsellers / yea / how many of the hoole realme? In how smalle rowme then I praye you / is the true church within the realme of Englande? and wher is it? and in what state? I hadde a cōceipte of myne owne well grownded (as they saye) when I began / but now it is fallen by the waye.

Anton. obiect. 8. Matt. 18.Generall Coūsels represent the vniuersall church ād hauehave this promesse of Christe / wher two or thre be gathered together in my name / ther am I in the myddes of thē. If Christe will be present with ij. or iij. then moche more wher ther is so great a multitude / &c. But in generall counsels Masse hath ben approued / and vsed Therfore / &c.

Off the vniuersall church which is mingled of goode / N. Ryd.and badde / thus I thinke. Whēsoeuer they which be chieffe in it / which rule and gouerne the same / and to whome the reaste of the hoole mysticall bodye of Christe doth obey / are the lyuely members of Christe / and walke after the guydinge and rule of his worde / and goo before the flocke towardes euerlasting lyffe: thē vndoubtedly Cownsels gathered together of suche guydes and Pastours of the Christiāe flocke / doo in dede represēte the vniuersall church / and beinge so gathered in the name of Christe / they hauehave a promesse off the gyfte / and guydinge of his spirite into all truthe.

But that anie such counsell hath at anie tyme allowed the masse / such a one as ours was of late / in a straunge tounge / and stuffed with so manie / absurditees / errours / and superstitions / that I vtterly denye / 2. Cor. 6.and I affirme it to be impossible. For like as ther is no agreement betwixe lyghte and darknesse / betwixe Christe and Belial / so surely superstition / and the syncere Religion of Christe / will worship / and the pure worshippinge of godde / such as godde requireth of his / Ioan. 4.that is / in spirite ād truth / can neuer agree together.

But ye will saye / wher so greate a Companie is gathered together / it is not credible / but ther be two / or three / gathered in the name of Christe. I answer If ther be one hundreth goode / and two hūdreth badde / forasmoche as the decrees / and ordinances are pronounced accordinge to the greater numbre of the multitude of voyces / what can the lesse numbre of voices auayle? It is a knowne thinge / and a commē prouerbe: Often tymes the greater parte / A prouerbe.ouercommeth the Better.

As touching general counseils / H. Laty.at this present I hauehave no more to say / thē you hauehave sayd. Only I refer you to your own experience / to thinke of our cō try parlaments and conuocations: how and what ye hauehave there seen / and heard.The incō stancie of the Englissh parlamentes ād conuocations. The more part in my time did brīg furth the sixe articles / for thē the king wold so hauehave it / being seduced of certē. Afterward the more part did repel the same / our goode Iosias willing to hauehave it so. The same articles now again (alas) another greater / but wurse part / hath restored. O what an vncertaintie is this? But after this sort most commonly are mans procedings. God be mercifull vntounto vsus. Who shall deliuer vsus from such tormēts of mind?Deathe, the best phisition to the faithful. Therfore is death the best physitiō / but vntounto the faithful / whom she together / and at once / deliuereth frō all grieffes. You must thinke … this / written vponupon this occasiō / because you woulde needes hauehave your paper blotted.

Anton. obiect. 9.Yf the matter shoulde go thus / that in generall counsailes menne shoulde not stande to the more numbre of the whole multitude / I meane of them whiche ought to geue voices / then shoulde no certaine rule bee lefte vntounto the churche / by the whiche controuersies in waightie matters might bee determined / but it is not to bee beleued / that Christe woulde leaue his churche destitute of so necessarie a helpe and sauegarde.

N. Ryd. Ansvu. Ephes. 5.Christe / who is the moste louinge spouse of his espoused the church / who also gaue himselfe for it / that he mighte sainctifie it vntounto himselfe / did geue vntounto it abundantlye all thinges which are necessarie to saluacion / but yet so / that the churche shoulde declare it selfe obediente vntounto him in all thinges / and kepe it selfe within the boundes of his commaundementes / and further / not to seke any thing whiche he teacheth not / as necessarie vntounto saluacion. Nowe further / for determination of all controuersies in Christes religion / Luc. 16.Christe himselfe hath left vntounto the church not only Moses / and the Prophetes / Esa. 8.whome he willeth his church in all doutes to go vntounto / and aske counsell at / but also the gospelles / and the reste of the bodie of the newe testamente: in the whiche whatsoeuer is harde in Moses and the prophetes / whatsoeuer is necessarie to be knowen vntounto saluation / is reueled and opened.

So that nowe wee hauehave no neede to saie / who shall clime into heauen / Rom. 10.or who shall go downe into the depth / to tell vsus what is needfull to be done. Christ hath done both / and hath commended vntounto vsus the worde of faith / whiche also is aboundantly declared vntounto vsus in his worde writtē / so that hereafter if wee walke earnestly in this waie to the ser / ching out of the trueth / it is not to be doubted / but throughe the certaine benifite of Christes spirite / Luke. 11.which he hath promised vntounto his / we may finde it / and obtaine euerlastinge life. Shoulde mēne aske counsell of the dead for the liuing saieth Esaie?Esai. 8. Let thē go rather to the law / and to the testimonie. et c. Christe sendeth them that bee desierouse to knowe the trueth vntounto the scriptures / saiynge / Iohn. 5.search the scriptures. I remembre a like thing well spoken of Hierome.Hieron. in 23. Math. Ignoraunce of the scriptures is the mother / and cause of al erroures / and in another place as I remembre in the same authoure. The knoweledge of the scripturs is the fode of euerlasting life. But nowe me thinketh I enter into a verie broade sea / in that I beginne to shewe / either oute of the scriptures them selues / or oute of the aunciente writers how muche the holy scripture is of force to teache the trueth of oure religion. But this is it / that I am nowe aboute / that Christe wold hauehave the church his spouse in all doubtes to aske counsel at the word of his father writtē / ād faithfully lefte / and cōmēded vntounto it in boeth testamētes the old / and the newe. Neither do we reede that Christ in any place hath laiede soo greate a burthen vponupon the members of his spouse / that he hath commaūded them to go to the vniuersall churche.Rom. 15. What soeuer thinges are written (saieth Paule) are written for oure learninge. And it is true that Christ gaue vntounto his churche / some Apostels / some Prophetes / some Euangelistes / Ephe. 4.some shepards / and teachers / to the edifiynge of the sainctes / till wee all come to the vnitie of faithe / et c. But that all menne should meete together / oute of all partes of the worlde / to define of the articles of our faith / I neither finde it commaunded of Christe nor written in the worde of God.

H. Latim.There is a diuersitie betwixt thinges pertaining to God / or faith / and Politique or Ciuile matters. For in the firste we muste stande onelyonly to the scriptures / whiche are able to make vsus all perfecte / and instructed vntounto saluation / 2. Tim. 3.if they bee well vnderunder / standed. And they offre thēselues to be wel vnderstanded onelye to them / whiche hauehave good willes / and geue themselues to studie / and praier. Neither are there any menne lesse / apt to vnderstand them / then the prudent and wise men of the worlde.

But in the other / that is in Ciuile or Politique matters / often tymes the magistrates doe tolerate a lesse euil / for auoiding of a greater / as they which hauehave this saiynge ofte in their mouthes. Better an inconuenience / then a mischieffe: and it is the propertie of a wise man (saieth one) to dissemble many thinges: And he that canne not dissemble / can not rule. In which saiyngs they bewraie themselues / that they doe not earnestely weighe / what is iuste / what is not. Wherfore / forasmuch as mās lawes / if it bee but in this respecte onelyonly / that they bee deuised by menne / are not able to bringe any thing to perfection / but are enforced of necessitie to suffre many things out of sqware / and are cōpelled somtime to wynke at the worste thinges / seinge they knowe not howe to maintaine the common peace and quiet otherwise / Gal. 3. 1. Cor. 3. Rom. 3. Psa. 116. Lib. 1. retr. cap. 10.they do ordaine that the more part shall take place. Yow know what these kindes of speaches mean / I speke after the maner of men / yee walke after the maner of men / all men are liers. And that of S Augustine / if ye liue after mannes reason / ye do not liue after the will of God.

Yf ye saie / the councels hauehave sometimes erred / Anton. obiect. 10.or maie erre / howe then shoulde we beleue the catholique Churche? For the councels are gathered by the authoritie of the catholique churche.

From maie bee / to bee in deede / N. Rid. ansvv.is no good argument / but from being / to maie bee / no man doubteth / but it is a most sure argument. But now that councels hauehave sometime erred / it is manifeste. Howe manie councels were there in the east part of the worlde / Socr. eccle. hist. l. 2.which condemned the Nicene counceil? and al those which wold not forsake the same / thei called by a sclāderouse name (as thei thought) Homousiās. Was not Athanasius / Chrisostome / Cyrille / Eustachius / men verie well learned / and of godly life / Socr. eccl. H. l. 1. c. 24.32. Theod. l. 5. cap. 34. Obiectiō.banished / and cōdēned as famouse heritiques / ād that by wicked coūcelles? Howe many thinges are there in the Canons and constitutions of the counselles / whiche the papistes them selues do much mislike? But here paraduenture one man will saie vntounto me: We will graunt you this in prouincial councelles / or councelles of some one nacion / that they maie sometimes erre: Forasmuche as they do not represente the vniuersall churche / but it is not to be beleued / that the general and full councelles hauehave erred at any time. Here if I hadde my bookes of the counselles / or rather such notes as I hauehave gathered out of those bookes / I coulde bring somthīg which should serue for this purpose. But now seing I hauehave them not / Ansvuer.I wil recite one place onelyonly out of S. Austen / which (in my iudgdment) maie suffise in this matter in steade of many. Who knoweth not (saieth he) that the holie scripture is so set before vsus / l. 2. de bap. cont. don. cap. 3.that it is not lawefull to doubte of it / and that the letters of Bishops / maye be reproued by other wiser men̄es wordes / ād by coūcelles: and that the coūsels thēselues / which are gathered by prouīces ād coūtries / dooe geue place to the authoritie of the general ād ful coūcelles: ād that the former general coūcels are amēded by the latter / whē as by some experience of things / either that which was shut vp / is opened / or that whiche was hid is knowen. Thus muche of Augustine. But I wyl plead with our Autoniane / vpō matter confessed▪ Here with vsus when as papisttie reagned / I pray you howe doth that booke / whiche was called the Bishoppes booke / made in the time of King Henry the eighte / whereof the Bishoppe of Winchester is thought to be either the first father / The Bisschops booke.or chiefe gatherer / howe doeth it (I saie) sharpely reproue the florentine counceile / in which was decreed the supremacie of the Bishoppe of Rome / and that with the consente of the Emperoure of constantinople / and of the Grecians? So that in those daies oure learned / aunciente fathers / and Bisshoppes of Englande / did not sticke to affirme that a generall counceile mighte erre. But me thinketh I heare another manne despising all that I hauehave broughte furthe / and saiynge. These whiche you hauehave called counceiles / are not worthy to be called counceiles / but rather assembles / and cōuēticles of heritiques I pray you syr / why do you iudge them worthie of so slanderouse a name? Because (sayth he) they decreed thinges heretical / contrarie to true godlines / and sounde doctrine / and against the faith of christen religion. The cause is waightie / for the which thei ought of right so to be caled. But if it be so that all counceiles oughte to be dispised / whiche decree any thinge contrarie to sounde doctrine / and the trew worde / whiche is according to godlines: forasmuche as the masse / 1. Tim. 6.suche as we hauehave had here of late / is openly against the worde of Godde / forsothe it must folow of necessitie / that al suche councels / as hauehave approued such masses / oughte of righte to be fledde / and despised / as conuenticles / and assembles of menne that straie from the truth.

The B. of Romes authoritee.Another man alledgeth vntounto me the authoritie of the Bisshop of Rome / withoute whiche / neither can the counsels (saith he) be lawefully gathered / neither beinge gathered determine any thing concerning religiō. But this obiection is only grounded vponupon the ambitoiuse and shamelesse maintenaunce of the Romishe tyrāny / and vsurped dominion ouer the cleargie / England abiured the popes supremacie.whiche tyrānie we Englisshe men / longe ago / by the consent of the whole Realme / hauehave expulsed / and abiured. And howe rightlie we hauehave done it / a litle booke set furth / de vtraque potestate / (that is of booeth the powers) doeth clerelye shewe. I graunt that the Romishe ambition hath gone aboute to chalenge to it selfe / and to vsurpe suche a priueledge of olde time.Cōc. Carthag. 3. But the counsell of Carthage / in the yeare of our Lorde / 457. did openly withstande it and also the counseil at Milcuyte: in the whiche S. Augustin was present / Can. 22.did prohibite anie appellations to be made to Bisshoppes beyond the sea.

S. Augustine saieth the good men are not to be forsaken for the euell / Anton. obiect. 11. Ep. 48.but the euell are to bee borne withal for the good. Ye will not saie (I trowe) that in our congregations all be euell.

N. Ryd. Ansvuer.I speake nothing of the goodnesse or euelnesse of your congregacions / but I fighte in Chrstes quarell againste the masse whiche doth vtterlye take awaie and ouerthrowe the ordinance of Christ. Let that be taken quite away / and then the particion of the walle that made the striefe shalbe brokē doune Nowe to the place of S. Austine / for bearing with the euill for the goods sake / there ought to be added other woordes / whiche the same writer hath expressedly in other places. That is:Aug. l. 3. cont. literas parm. cap. 2.3. if those euell men do caste abroad no seedes of false doctrine / nor lead other / to destruction / by their example.

Yt is perilouse to atempt any newe thinge in the church / which lacketh example of good men.Anton. obiect. 12. How muche more perilouse is it / to commit any act / vntounto the which / thexample of the prophets / of Christ / and of thapostles are contrary. But vntounto this your fact / in abstaining from the church by reason of the masse / the example of the prophetes / of Christe / and of thapostles are cleane contrarie. Therefore. et c. The firste part of the argument is euident / and the seconde parte I proue thus. In the tymes of the Prophetes / of Christ / and his Apostels / all things were mooste corrupte. The people was miserablye geuen to superstition / the priestes dispised the law of god: and yet not withstanding / we neither read that the prophetes made any schismes or diuisiōs / and Christ himselfe haūted the temple / and taught in the temples of the Iewes.Luc. 21. Acto. 3. Acto. 13. Peter and Ihon wēt vppe into the temple at the ninthe howre of praier Paule after the readinge of the lawe / being desyred to saie something to the people / did not refuse to doe it. Yea / further no mā can shewe / that either the Prophetes / or Christ / and his Apostles / did refuse to praie together with others / to sacrifice / or to be partakers of the Sacramentes of Moses law.

I graunt the former parte of youre argumente / and to the seconde parte I saie / N. Rydl. Ansvu.that althoughe it containe mani true thinges / as of the corrupt state in the times of the Prophetes / of Christe / and the Apostles / and of the temple being haūted of Christ and his Apostels / yet notwithstāding the seconde parte of your argument is not sufficientlie proued: For ye oughte to hauehave proued / that either the Prophets / either Christ / or his Apostles did in the temple / communicate with the people / in any kinde of worshippinge whiche is forbidden by the lawe of God / or repugnant to the worde of god. But that can no where bee shewed / And as for the churche / I am not angrie with it / and I neuer refused to goe to it / and to praie with the people / to heare the worde of God / and to doe all other thinges whatsoeuer maie agree with the worde of God. S Augustin speakinge of the Cerimonies of the Iewes (I suppose in the Epistle ad Ianuariū) although he graunt they greuousely oppressed that people / Ep. 119.both for the numbre / and bondage of the same / yet he calleth them burdens of the lawe / whiche were deliuered vntounto them in the worde of God / not presumptions of men / which notwithstanding if thei were not cōtrarie to gods word / might after a sort bee borne withall. But nowe / seing they are contrarie / to those thinges whiche are in the worde of god written. Whether they ought to be borne of any Christian or no / let him iudge which is spiritual which feareth God more then mā / and loueth euerlastinge life / more then this shorte and transitorie life. To that which was saied that my facte lacketh example of the godlie fathers that hauehave goone before / the contrarie is moste euident in the historie of Tobie. Of whome it is saied / Tob. 1.that when all other went to the golden calues / which Hieroboam the Kinge of Israel hadde made / he himselfe alone fledde all their companies / and gotte him to Ierusalē / vntounto the temple of the Lorde / and there worshipped the Lorde God of Israel.3. Reg. 13. Did not the man of God threaten greuouse plages both vntounto the priestes of Bethell / and to the aulter whiche Hieroboam had there made after his owne fantasie? Whiche plages Kinge Iosias the true minister of god did execute at the time appointed.4. Reg. 23. And where doe we read that the Prophetes / or thapostles / did agree with the people in their Idolatrie? When as the people went a whoring with their hill aulters / for what cause I praie you did the prophets rebuke the people so muche / as for their false worshipping of god after their owne minds / and not after gods woorde? For what was so muche as that was? wherfore the false prophetes ceased not to maligne the true prophetes of God: Therfore they bet them they bannisshed them.Hier…. 20. Hebr. 11. et c. Howe elles I praie you canne you vnderstande that S. Paule alledgeth? When he saithe. What concorde hath Christe with belial?2. Cor. 6. Either what parte hath the beleuer with the infidele? or howe agreeth the temple of God with Images? For ye are the temple of the liuing God / as god himselfe hath saide:Leuit. 26. I will dwell amonge them / and walke amonge them / and will be theyr godde / and they shall be my people. Wherfore come owte frome amonge them / and separate your selfes frome them (sayeth the Lorde) and towche none vncleane thinge / Esa. 52.so will I receiue you / and will be a father vntounto you / and ye shall be my sonnes and dowghters sayeth the Lorde Allmightye.

Iudith that holye woman wolde not suffer her selfe to be defiled with the meates of the wicked.Iudith 12. All the sayntes off godde / which trulye feared godde / when they hauehave ben prouoked to doo anie thinge which they knew to be contrarye to goddes lawe / hauehave chosen to dye / rather then to forsake the lawes of their godde.2. Mach. 7. Wherfore the Machabees putte them selfes in daunger of deathe for the defense of the lawe / yea and at Lengthe died manfully in in the defense of the same. Yff we doo praise (sayeth S. Augustine) the Machabees / ād that with greate admiration / Conr 2. Ep. gaudē tij cap. 23.bicawse they did stoutely stande euen vntounto death / for the lawes of theyr Cowntrey: how moche more owghte we to suffer all thinges for our Baptisme / for the sacramente of the bodie and bloud of Christe? &c. But the supper of the lorde / suche a one (I meane) as Christe cōmaundeth vsus to celebrate / the masse vtterlye abolisheth and corrupteth most shamefully.

Who am I / that I should adde anie thīg to this which you hauehave so wel spokē. Nay / H. Laty.I rather thanke iou that iou hauehave vouch safed to minister so plētiful armour to me / beīg otherwise altogether vnarmed sauyng that he cāne not be lefte destitute of helpe / whiche rightly trusteth in the helpe of God.

I onli learne to die in reading of the new testamēt and am euer now and then praiyng vntounto my god / that he will be an helper vntounto me in time of neede.Psal. 9.

Seing you are so obstinatly set against the masse / Anton. obiec. 13.that you affirme / because it is done in a toūge not vnderstanded of the peple / and for other causes / I cā not tel what / therfore it is not the true sacramēt / ordeined of Christ / I begin to suspect you / that you thinke not catholiquely of baptisme also. Is oure baptisme which wee do vse / in a toūge vnknowen to the peple / the true baptisme of Christ or no? If it be / thē doth not the straūge toūge hurte the masse. If it be not the baptisme of Christ / tel me how were you baptised? Or whether ye will (as the anabaptistes doe) that all whiche were baptised in latyn should be baptised againe in the English tounge.

Althoughe I wolde wisshe baptisme to be geuē N. Rydl. Ansvu.in the vulgar toung for the peoples sake which are presente / that they maye the better vnderstande theyr owne profession / and also be more hable to teache their childrē the same / yet notwithstanding ther is not lyke necessitee of the vulgare tounge in Baptisme / and in the lordes supper. Baptisme is geuē to children / who by reason of their aege are not able to vnderstande what is spoken vntounto them what tounge soeuer it be. The lordes supper / is / and oughte to be geuen to them / that are wexen. More ouer / in Baptisme which is accustomed to be geuen to children in the Latin tounge / all the substantial poyntes (as a man wolde saye) which Christe commawnded to be doone / are obserued. And therfore I iudge that Baptisme / to be a perfecte and true baptisme: and that it is not only not nedefull / but also not lawfull / for anie man so Christened / to be Christened againe. Butt yet notwithstandynge / they oughte to be tawghte the Cathechisme of the Christen fayth / whan they shall come to yeares of discretion: Which Cathechisme / who so euer despiseth / or will not desirously embrace / and willingly learne / in my iudgemente he plaieth not the parte of a Christiane man. But in the popisshe masse are wantynge certeyne substantialles / that is to saye / thinges commawnded by the worde of godde to be obserued in ministration of the lordes supper: of the which ther is sufficient declaration made before.

H. Laty.Wher you saye (I wolde wisshe? surely I wolde wisshe / that you hadde spoken more vehemently / and to hauehave sayed it is of necessitee / that all thinges in the congregation shulde be doone in the vulgare tounge / for thedyffyenge and cōforte of them that are presente. Nottwithstandinge that the childe it selfe is sufficientlye baptised in the Latin tounge.

Forasmoche as I perceiue you are so stifflie / Anton. obiect. 14I will not saye obstinately bente / and so wedded to your owne opinion / that no gentle exhortations / no holsome cownsayles / no other kynde of meanes can call you home to a better mynde: ther remayneth / that which in lyke cases was wonte to be the only remedye agaynst stiffe necked / and stubburne persones / that is / you muste be hampered by the lawes / and compelled either to obey whether ye will or no / or elles to suffer that / which a rebelle to the lawes oughte to suffer. Doo you not knowe that whosoeuer refuseth to obeye the lawes of the realme / he bewrayeth himselfe to be an enemye to his cowntrey? Doo you not knowe that this is the redyest waye / to stirre vp sedition / and ciuille warre? Yt is better that you shulde beare your owne synne / then that throughe thexample of your breache of the commē lawes / the cōmen qwiette shulde be disturbed. How can you saye / you will be the qwenes true subiecte / when as you doo openly professe / that you will not kepe her lawes?

N. Ryd. Ansvuer.O heauenly father / the father of all wisedom / vnderstandinge / and true strengthe / I besech thee for thy onli sonne our sauiour Christes sake / looke mercifulli vponupon me wretched creature / and sende thine holye spirite into my breaste / that not only I maye vnderstāde according to thy wisedome / how this pestilēt and deadly dart is to be borne of / and with what aunswere it is to be beaten backe / but also when I must ioyne to fight in the fielde for the glorye of thy name / that then I being strengthened with the defence of thy right hande / maie manfully stande in the confession of thy faieth / and of thy trueth / and continue in the same vntounto the ende of my life / through the same our Lorde Iesus Christ. Amen.

Nowe to the obiection. I graunt it to be reasonable / that he whiche by woordes and gentilnesse can not be made yealde to that is right and good / shoulde bee bridled by the straite correction of the lawes: that is to saie / he that will not bee subiect to gods worde / muste be punished by the lawes. It is true that is commenly saide. He that will not obeie the gospell / muste be tamed and taught by the rigoure of the lawe. But these thynges oughte to take place againste him / whiche refuseth to do that is right / and iuste / according to true godlines: not againste hym / whyche can not quietelye beare superstitions / and the ouerthrowe of Christes institutions / but doth hate / and detest from his harte / suche kinde of procedinges / and that for the glorie of the name of God. To that which ye saie a transgressour of the commen lawes / bewraieth himselfe to be an enemy of his countrie / suerly a man ought to looke vntounto the nature of the lawes / what maner of lawes they bee whiche are broken. For a faithfull Christian oughte not to thinke alike of all maner of lawes. But that saiyng ought onelye truely to bee vnderstanded of suche lawes as bee not contrarie to gods woorde. Otherwise whosoeuer louelove their contrie in treuth / (that is to saie in God) they wyll alwaies iudge (if at any time the lawes of god and manne be thone contrarie to the other) that a man ought rather to obeie God then manne.Acto. 4. And they that thinke otherwise / and pretende a louelove to their contrie / forasmuche as they make their contrie to fyghte as it were againste Godde in whome consisteth the onelie staie of the countrie / surelye I do thinke that suche are to bee iudged mooste deadly enemies / and tratours to their countrie. For they that fighte againste Godde / whiche is the safetie of theyr countrie / what doe they els but go aboute to bryng vponupon theyr countrie a presente ruine and destruction. But they that do so are worthelie to be iudged enemies to their countrie / and betraiours of the Realme / Therfore &c.

But this is the rediest waie (ye saie) to stir vp sedition / to trouble the quiete of the commen welth / therfore are these thinges to bee repressed in time / by force of lawes. Beholde Sathan doth not cease to practise hisolde giles / Satā & his ministers doo alvuayes charge the godly vuith sedition. 3. Reg. 18. Hiere. 26.ād accustomed subtilties. He hath euer this darte in a readines to whorle againste his aduersaries / to accuse them of sedition that he maie bringe them (yf he can) in daunger of the higher powers. For so hath he by his ministers alwaies charged the Prophetes of Godde. Achab saied vntounto Elias art thou he that troubleth Iraell? The false prophetes also complained to their Princes of Hieremie that his woordes were seditious and not to be suffered / Did not the Scribes / and Pharisies falselye accuse Christe as a seditious person / Luc. 23. Ioan. 19, Acto. 24.and one that spake againste Cesar? Did they not at the laste crie if you let this manne go you are not Cesars frende? The Oratoure Tertullus how doth he accuse Paule before Felix the highe deputie? We hauehave founde this man (saith he) a pestilent felowe / and a sterer of sedition vntounto all the Iewes in the whole worlde &c. But I praie you were these men as they were called seditious persons. Christ / Paule / and the Prophetes? God forbid. But they were of false men / falsely accused. And wherefore I praie you? but because they reproued before the people their giles / superstition / and deceites. And when the other could not bere it / and would gladly hauehave hadde them taken out of the waie / they accused them as seditious persons / and troublers of the commen wealthe / that beinge by this meanes made hatefull to the people / and Princes / they mighte the more easilie be snatched vppe to be tormented / and put to death. But howe far they were from al sedition / their whole doctrine / life / and conuersation doeth well declare. For that whiche was obiected laste of all / that he canne not be a faithfull subiecte to his prince which professeth openly that he will not obserue the lawes / whiche the prince hath made: here I woulde wishe that I mighte hauehave an indifferente iudge / and one that feareth god / to whose iudgement in this cause I promise I will stande. I aunswere therfore a man oughte to obeie his prince / but in the Lorde / and neuer against the Lorde. For he that knowingly obeith his prince against god doth not a duetie to the prince / but is a decieuer of the Prince / and an helper vntounto him to worke his own destruction. He is also vniust whiche geueth not the prince / that is the princes / and to god that is gods. Here commeth to my remembraunce / that notable saiynge of Valentinianus / the Emperoure for chosinge the Bisshop of Millaine. Set him (saith he) in the bishops seate / Theodor. eccl. hist. l. 4. cap. 5. Euse. eccl. histo. l. 4. cap. 4. Niceph. li. 3. cap. 35.to whome if wee (as man) do offende at any time / we maie submitte our selues. Policarpus the moste constante Martyr when he stode before the chiefe Ruler and was commaunded to blaspheme Christe / and to sweare by the fortune of Caesar &c. He aunswered with a milde spirite: we are taught (saieth he) to geue honoure vntounto princes and those powers whiche be of god / but suche honoure as is not contrarie to gods religion.

Hitherunto ye see good father / howe I hauehave in wordes onelyonly made as it were a florishe before the fighte whiche I shortelie looke after / and howe I hauehave begōne to prepare certaine kindes of wepōs / to fight againste the aduersaries of Christe / and to muse with my selfe / howe the dartes of the olde enemie maie be borne of / and after what sort I maie smite him againe with the sworde of the spirite.Ephes. 6. I learne also hereby to be in vre with armour / and to assaie howe I canne goe armed.

In Tyndall where I was borne / not farre from the scotishe borders / I hauehave knowen my contreiemen watche nighte and daie in their harnesse / such as they hadde / that is in their Iackes: and their speares in their hands (you call thē northen gads) specially when they hadde any priuye warninge of the cōming of the scottes. And so doyng / although at euerie suche bickeringes some of them spente their lifes / yet by suche meanes like pretie men they defended their countrie. And those that soe died / I thinke that before God they died in a good quarel / and their ofspringe and progenie / all the countrie loued them the better for their fathers sakes. And in the quarell of Christe our sauioure / in the defense of his owne diuine ordinaunces / by the whiche he geueth vntounto vsus lyfe and immortalitie / yea / in the quarell of faithe / and Christian religion / wherein resteth oure euerlastinge saluacion / shall wee not watche? shall we not goe alwaies armed? euer lokinge when oure aduersarie (whiche like a roaringe Lyon seeketh whome he maie deuoure) shall come vponupon vsus by reason of oure slouthfulnesse.1. Pet. 5. Yea / and woe be vntounto vsus / if he canne oppresse vsus at vnwares / whiche vndoubtedly he wil doe / if he finde vsus slepinge. Let vsus awake therfore / for if the good manne of the house knewe what houre / the thiefe woulde come / he woulde surely watche / and not suffer his house to be brokē vp.Ma…. Let vsus awake therfore I saie / and lette vsus not suffer oure house to bee broken vp. Resist the Deuill saieth S. Iames and he will flie from you.Iaco. 4. Lette vsus therfore resiste him māfullie / ād taking the crosse vpō oure shoulders / let vsus folow our captaine Christ / who by his owne bloude / hathe dedicated and halowed the waye whiche leadeth vntounto the father / that is to the light whiche no man can attaine / 1. Tim. 6.the fountaine of euerlasting ioyes. Let vsus folow I saye / whither he calleth and allureth vsus / that after these afflictions / whiche laste but for a momente / whereby he trieth our faith / as gold by the fiere / we maie euerlastinglye raigne / and triumphe with him in the glorie of the father / and that throughe the same oure Lorde / and Sauiour Iesus Christ / to whome with the father and the holie ghooste bee all honoure and glorie nowe and for euer. Amen. Amen.

Goode father / forasmoch as I hauehave determined with my selfe / to powre forthe these my cogitatiōs into your bosome / her me thinketh I see you sodenly liftyng vp your heade towardes heauen / after your maner / and thē lookynge apon me with your propheticall countenāce / and speakynge vntounto me / with these or like wordes. Truste not my sonne (I beseche you vouchsafe me the honour of this name for in so doynge I shall thinke my selfe both honoured / and loued of you.) Truste not I saye my sonne to these worde weapons:1. Cor. 4. for the kingdome of godde / is not in wordes / but in power. And remember allwayes the wordes of the lorde / doo not imagine afore hande / Matt. 10. Marc. 11.what and how you will speake / for it shall be geuen you / euē in that same howre what ye shall speake / for it is not ye that speake / but the spirite of your father which speaketh in you. I praye you therfore father / praie for me / that I maye caste my hoole care apon hym / and truste apon hym in all perilles. For I knowe / and am surely perswaded / that / what soeuer I can imagine or thinke afore hande / it is nothinge / excepte he assiste me with his spirite when the tyme is. I beseche you therfore father / Ephes. 6.praie for me / that such a complete harnesse of the spirite / suche boldnesse of mynde may be geuen vntounto me / that I maye owte of a true fayth saye with Dauid.Psal. 44. I will not truste in my bowe / ād it is not my swearde that shal saue me. For he hath no pleasure in the strengthe of an horse / &c.Psal. 147. But the lordes delyte is in them that feare hym / and putte theyr truste in his mercye. I besech you praye / praye / that I maye entre thys fyghte / only in the name of godde / and that when all is paste / I beinge not ouercome throughe his gratiouse ayde / maye remayne / and stande faste in hym / tyll that daye of the lorde / Apoc. 2.in the which to them that obteine the victorie / shall be geuen the lyuely Manna to eate / and a Tryumphante Crowne for euermore.

Now father I praye you helpe me to buckle on this geare a little better. For you knowe the depenes of Sathan / beynge an olde souldyar / Apoc. 2.ād you hauehave collered with hym or now: blessed be godde / that hath euer aided you so well. I suppose he maye well holde you at the baye / but truly he will not be so willynge (I thynke) to ioyne with you / as with vsus yongelynges.

Syr I beseche you / let your seruaunt reade this my bablinge vntounto you / and nowe and then / as it shall seme vntounto you beste / let youre penne runne on my booke / spare not to blotte my paper I geue you good leaue.

As touchinge this Antoniane / whome I hauehave here made mine aduersarie / leste paraduenture anie ymagination mighte carrie you amisse / and make you thinke otherwise then I ment: Knowe you that I hauehave alluded to one Antonie a mooste cruel Bisshoppe of the Arianes / and a very violent persecuter of them that were Catholique / Victor. li. 3. de persequut. Aphricae.and of a righte iudgemente. To whome Hunericus a Tyrante of the Vandales / knowing Antonies fearcenes committed his whole autoritie / that he should either turne the Christians which beleued well / vntounto his false Religion / or els to punish and torment them at his pleasure. Which thing Antonius toke in hande to doe / and executed the same againste a greate numbre / but specially againste two mooste godlie Bisshoppes / and most constante in the doctrine whiche was according to godlinesse.Tit. 1. The name of thone was Eugenius an aged man / thother was named Habet deum. This Latter as it appeareth by Victors Historie of the persecutions of the Vandales booth the Tyranne / and the false counterfaicte Bisshoppe desiered muche to hauehave turned vntounto their mooste pestilēt heresie. This Habet deum / was bisshope of the Citee Tamallune / wher Antonie hadde ben bisshoppe before. And when Antonie hadde vexed hym (as the storie sayeth) with diuerse and sundrie persequutions / and hadde fownde the souldiar of Christe allwaies constante in his Confession / it is sayd / that at lengthe in a greate rage he swoore / and sayd to his frendes on this wise: yf I make hym not of our Religion / then am I not Antonie: it is incredible what harmes and troubles he putte hym to / what crueltye he practised against him / and it wer to longe now / to describe the same vntounto you. But the man of god stoode allwayes vnmooueable / and in the confession of Christes fayth remayned euer vntounto thende / the constante and vnfoyled souldyare of Christe. Thys goode Bisshoppe Habet deum / I praye to godde our heauēly father to geue me grace that I maye fathefully folowe / throughe our Lorde Iesus Christe / Amen.

Syr I hauehave cawsed my man not onelyonly to reade your armour vntounto me / but also to write it owte / H. Laty.for it is not onelyonly no bare armour / but also well buckled armour / I see not how it could be better. I thā ke you euē frome the botome of my harte for it / and my praier you shall not lacke / trustinge that you do the like for me. For in deede there is the helpe. &c. Manie thinges make confusion in memorie. And if I were as well learned as was Sainct Paul. I woulde not bestowe muche amongest them / further then to gaule them / and spurgall to / when / and where as occasion were geuen / and matter came to minde / for the lawe shall bee their shote anchour / staye and refuge.

Fare you well in Christe.

Conferences Between Two Fathers and Martyrs, Conferences

p. 5In the name of Iesus let euerie knee bowe. Philip. 2.