Animadversion to Cliftons Advertisement, Part 5
Of the conditions of peace, by our Opposites refused, and broken.
HItherto wee have heard the particulars wherin they are gone from their former profession; & again the articles which they have insinuated against us. Now foloweth, the peace which notwithstanding the former things, wee desired to reteyn with them.
The first.
1. Before our parting, we offred, that notwithstanding our differences of judgmēt, we would continue togither, if our former practise might be reteyned: but this was refused.
Their answer hereto is.
Which is, as if they should say, they would have continued with vsus, if wee would have continued in errour and evil, so found and acknowledged by us: suffering the ordinance of God, touching the Eldership to be troden under foot; the Elders to be despised and abused by the people, and the whole Church to be continually subiect to contentions and scandals.
Our reply.
Here first observe, how they can not deny, but thus we offred them: and yet they would bear the world in hand, we left them for their understanding and exposition of Mat. 18, 17. They might have kept their vnderstanding both of that, and other scriptures, if the Churches practise had not been altered. Secondly, how doo their people yet bear themselves & others in hand, that their practise is not changed; but all things continue with them in that respect as before. Eyther their Elders dissemble with them, or they with others; according to the Philosophers doctrine, that, in such changes,*Aristot. polit. l. 5. c. 9. it behooveth men to feighn and counterfeyt the contrary. Thirdly, the answer is evil & injurious to the truth & people of God: for his ordinance touching the Eldership is not troden vnderunder foot, the Elders despised, &c. by the holy order of the Church judging synners as the Apostle †1. Cor. 5.teacheth, and governed in all actions, by “1. Tim. 5. 17. Heb. 13 17.the officers, which was our former practise. These are but contumelies, such as Papists and lovers of Prelacie, have layd upon the saynts heretofore: and upon such pretenses have excluded the people from choosing their ministers, *D. Bilson, perpet. governm. ch. 15.for avoyding such tumults and uprores, as the primitive Church (they say) was afflicted with. Fourthly what if some persons have miscaried themseves, as can not be denyed: have not some of the Elders also doon the like? And shall the Church, because of the abuses, tyrannies, heresies which their Elders have in all ages brought in: refuse to have any moe Elders? no more may the Elders refuse to have the people to hear and judge causes of publick syn with them, because of the disorder and unrulynes of some; whom the people have been as willing to reprove and censure as the Elders themselves. As for the Church subject continually to contentions and scandals &c. it is most true by the Elders means: for (to let pass what we have seen among our selves,) let all histories be looked, & it wil appear the Church hath never more abounded with contentions and scandals, then when al power was in the Ministers hands, and the people excluded. Yea even in the Elders most solemn assemblies and Councils; as Gr. Nazianzen in his time complayned, being himself an Elder or Bishop. *Nazianz. epist. 42. ad Procop.I am minded (sayth he) to shun all assemblies of Bishops, because I never saw a good event in any Council, that did not rather increase then diminish our evils. Their contention & ambitiō, passeth my speech.
Secondly, they speak of their offer to bear with us in our difference of judgement, if we would be content to walk peaceably with the Church in that our difference: but this was refused. I answer; they might also (if they had pleased) have shewed the reasons of our refusal, which more thē once we gave them: as, 1. Because we are willed to observ all things whatsoever Christ cōmanded his disciples, Math. 28.20. and therfore his ordinances must not be left in practise, and holden in judgement onelyonly.
2. Because touching the ministerie it is sayd, a man can receiv nothing except it be given him from heaven, Ioh. 3, 27. now to the Ministers it is given to *Act. 20.28 Rō. 12.7.8. 1. Pet. 5.feed guide and govern the Church, but not themselves to be the Church, and to chalenge the power of the same in things perteyning to the kingdome of Christ.
3. Because touching the people it is sayd Stand fast in the libertie wherwith Christ hath made us free, and be not intangled agayn with the yoke of bondage, Gal. 5.1. but this was a part of the peoples Christian libertie, recovered out of Antichristian bondage, viz. to judge synners that are within, 1. Cor. 5. and to decide publik causes with their ministers, Act. 15.23.—28. as parts of the same Church and body, 1. Cor. 12.27.28. therfore to be held fast, not onelyonly in judgment but in practise.
4. Because such giving place to the usurpation of the ministers, was the mean of Antichrists beginning and climing to his preeminence; which had the people resisted at first, and practised the Gospel in the order set by Christ, he could not so have prevayled. And now also we should look, that Antichrist being expelled, doo not agayn set in his foot.
5. Because if we holding otherweise in judgment, should let the true practise of the Gospel goe; posteritie after us, being brought into bondage, might justly blame and curse us, that would not stand for the right of the people, in that which we acknowledged to be their due. These things considered, we desired them then, and stil doo, to shew us how we could let goe our ancient practise, until our judgment were by the word of God changed.
The 2. thing by us offred.
2. We desired, that then we might have a peaceable parting; and to be two distinct congregations, ech practising as they were perswaded, yet nourishing brotherly love and unitie. This also they would not agree to, unless we would leav this citie.
Their answer is;
A peaceable parting we grant they desired in word, but in deed stayed not with us, but departed whiles we were considering whither it could lawfully be effected or not. &c.
Our replie.
We desired it in word and deed instantly: alleging the parting of Paul and Barnabas, Act. 15.39. the doctrine of the Apostle, Phil. 3.15.16. the practise of Abram and Lot (though in a civil case) parting to avoyd strife, Gen. 13.8.9. the avoyding of publick reproch in the world &c. But whatsoever we could say, perswaded them not, but they withstood us. We stayed long, and had we folowed their delayes, we might have taried to this day, and have had no other answer at their hands. How long have they been considering about their Teachers ordination, and stil it dependeth.
We are not ignorant of their pretenses, to put off the thing they like not, with a consideration. But in deed we had their refusals often, before we parted. Which was much in them that had chā ged their former profession, and innovated the practise, that they should so refuse. Had we been the men that had made such innovation, and they continued as before: we had surely been excommunicated long ere that time of our departing. Of our busynes with the Church of Leyden, it fel out after; and is now to be spoken of, in the third place.
The third thing.
3. We procured, though without their consent, the help of the English church at Leyden, who laboured our peace: a way of peace by these thē selves propounded, and by the Church of Leyden and vsus agreed to, these after reversed, and stood not unto, unless we would goe dwel out of this citie. And al…hough in the treatie of the agreement, it was testified by the Elders of that Church, that unless it were to the apparant undoing of us and of our families, wee should not be dismissed agayn to dwell here: yet because wee would not absolutely promise to leave this citie, they would not stand to the agreement which themseves had made.
Their answers, & our replies.
Here they seek to wind out themselves from blame, by sundry pretexts, and long narrations. I will breifly touch the principal, being sory to weary the reader with our strifes.
1. First for the thing by them propounded, (of mens going frō the one Church and Pastor to the other) & by us agreed unto; it was not because we desired or liked such a course: but earnestly desiring peace upō any tollerable cōditions, & seing for the present no unlawfull thing in it, we assented; though the thing would have been much to our detriment. For all of us must have made a journey to Leyden and back agayn, with charge and trouble, it being then midwinter: and such as could have had means of livelihood there, must there have remayned; which perhaps would have been the one half of us, and so our congregation had been greatly diminished, which was one mayn thing that our adverse brethren plotted, as the events did manifest. The Church at Leyden also, as we, must have suffred continually their & our members, to goe when they would, into the practise of those errors with our opposite brethrē: a thing which we wil carefully take heed of, how ever we yeild to the like agayn.
2. That the officers of the Church of Leyden did at the first cō ceive that we all must remayn with them: we cannot say. Sure wee are, we did not so conceiv; but M. Iohnson so propounded it, as we al even by his words understood it otherweise, and himself being after pressed, could not deny it.
3. That the thing was agreed of, and the second time by them absolutely concluded, & that three were sent with the message after the brethren of Leyden to signifie it, as they write: is true, and past denyal.
4. That after they made new motion of an other course, is true also; but they omitt the publik breaking of the former agreement: whē they signifying that forasmuch as they perceived our purpose was to return and live agayn in this citie, they did playnly reverse it.
5. The motion which they made of a double practise, as it was disliked by the Church of Leyden (as they signify:) so we also shewed like reason of our dislike, it being both unlawful for vsus to practise syn as it were with the right hand, and righteousnes with the left; & no likelihood of our peace, but of greif and dayly dissentions.
6. Touching the motion made by the Church of Leyden, for coming first to the Elders as Church governours &c. and for admonition being caried according to the alteration practised and agreed upon; wherupon these our opposites now observ against us, for not yeilding therto, how greatly we oppugned the ordinance of God touching the Elders hearing and judging of causes &c. this rightly weighed, wil shew how greatly we are by them abused. For first, it was such a course as neyther the Church at Leyden would bind themselves to walk in, neyther did these our opposites, or we, think it to be according to the order of God. Secondly they tel us not, (wherfore we desire them in their next to tel us,) whither themselves would sincerely have practised these things according to the true intendement of the Church of Leyden that motioned them. Thirdly, for the cariage of admonition spoken of; it was found out, and by M. Iohnson himself publikly acknowledged that the controversie between us, was therin closely implied and yeilded unto them, when upon dispising the admonition of the Elders, the parties were to be excommunicated. This being thus manifested, with what conscience could we yeild to practise errour privily brought in under hand: and deny to practise the same thing publickly professed? Would not al men, and even they thē selves have blamed us for such dissimulation? Fourthly for comming to the Elders first as governours, vve did then and doo novv yeild it the brethrens duty, in doubts so to come for counsel & advise: but for to bind all men in most manifest synns vvhichwhich the Church should judge, to come first to the Elders onelyonly, and so to lay it on the brethren as for not doing it, they should be excōmunicated; and yet both sides acknovvledge it is not the order of God: vve told them this vvould be to deal worse then the Pharisees, vvhen none of vsus vvalked in that vvhichwhich vve professed to be the right vvay, but leaving that, vvould stablish our ovvn traditions and cast out men for not observing them. These vveighty reasons they overpass, and bear the vvorld in hand how greatly we oppugned Gods ordinance touching the Elders: vvhē vve but oppugned the Elders traditiōs, least they should be advanced above the ordināce of God.
Next folovv their reasons vvhy they vvould not stand to their former agreement vvith us, nor have spiritual fellowship (as they write) with us in such estate & walking. 1. Because they could not find warrant for it in the word of God. I answer, if they acknowledge no warrant found for our peaceable parting here, nor dismissing to an other Church: what remayned, but eyther we must yeild to their errors, which for the reasons foreshewed we might not; or ells part from them as we did; the causes of the division being in them, both by broaching errour, and refusing peace.
2. Their second reason is, because we refused (as they say,) disobeyed and spake evil of the truth and way of God. I answer; first this is to take that for granted, which is the question betvveen us. Secondly if this reason be good, and the truth be vvith us, (as vve doubt not of it:) then they grant us that vve had just cause to leave spiritual fellovvship vvith them, vvhichwhich departed from, and spake evil of, and persecuted the truth and vvay of God, vvherin themselves once walked with us. Howbeit, if we would have lived at Leyden, all had been peace: is it more lawful, trow we, to speak evil of, and disobey the truth there, then at Amsterdam?
3. Their third reason is, because we refused to continue cōmunion with them, though we might be suffred to walk in peace with protestation in our difference of judgment. I answer, this having been first offred by us to them, and they refusing it, as before they grant; it cōmeth upon their own heads, if any weight be in it. Secondly, we have shewed sundry reasons from scripture, why we might not so walk: & have never yet heard from them, any like reasons to warant us, to protest against a synful practise, and yet to practise it dayly. If our own harts and mouthes condemn us, *1 Ioh. 3.20.God is greater.
4. Their 4. reason is, because some of us professed we would not deal in causes by way of protestation, neither when we were with them nor from them. I answer; first the different mind of some few, is not of weight to break the agreement with us al. Secondly, this might have fallen out also occasionally, if we had lived at Leyden; where they would have had peace with us. So it is our living in this city, that was in deed the onelyonly true cause vvhy they stood not to their agreement, the other are but pretenses.
5. Their 5. reason is, because we went not from one Church & Pastor to another, so to live and remayn, but purposed when we had joyned unto them, presently to return and live here in this town apart from them. I answer; this was in deed that which troubled them; they could not indure us in the same city by thē. Yet they cannot deny but it was promised, we all should live and remayn there, unless it were to the apparant undoing of us and our families. And were not these loving brethren, that had rather we and our families should be undoon, then they would want of their wills▪ For what reason (much less necessity) can they shew why we must goe from one church and pastor to an other, and may not continue in the place and state wherin God had called us, with as many officers already among our selves, as the Church of Leyden had; and one a Teacher of the word. They tel us afterward, *Advert. p. 87.that the very naming of going to another Church & Pastor, caryeth weight of reason with it: belike because he is a Pastor that sayth it: for word of God shew they none, that binds men to goe to another Church where ther is a Pastor and no Teacher; but forbids them to remain in their own cōmunion and church, where ther is a Teacher and no Pastor. Especially when without the apparant undoing of men & their families, they can not remove their habitation.
6. Their 6. reason is, because by such walking of ours, great reproch would come upon us all, with much dishonur to God &c. I answer, it †Luk. 17.1can not be avoyded but offenses wil come, but woe unto them by whō they come. Yet greater reproch (as we alwayes feared) is come by their refusing peace with us, (unless it were upon unlawful & unreasonable conditions,) then vvould have been by our peaceable parting, vvhichwhich vve often and instantly desired.
7. Their last reason is, because they thought there should alwayes be somwhat in such cases used, as wherby the Lord might work upon our consciences, to consider our estate, and to repent and yeild to the truth and way of God which we had refused & oppugned. I ansvver, first this manifesteth their minds to be farr from peace vvith vsus, vvhatsoever they pretended; unless vve vvould yeild to their innovation and prelacie. Secondly this reason, if it be good, serveth asvvel for them that should live at Leyden, as at Amsterdam: unless they vvould permit us there to oppugn the truth and vvay of God, as they intitle their errours.
Thirdly, this evil being foūd in thēselves, that they doo not onelyonly refuse & oppugn the truth offred; but forsake, speak evill of, and persecute the truthe and vvay of God vvhichwhich they had long imbraced & vvalked in: the judgement vvhichwhich they give upon us, is most just upon their ovvn heads; by the sentence “Mat. 7, 2, 12.of our Saviour. And vve could doo no less vvith these our merciless brethren, that vvould nourish no peace vvith us, unless eyther vve made shipvvrack of a good conscience, or would consent to the undoing of our estates and families; but leave them as we did, by the Apostles warrant, for causing division and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which we had learned Rom. 16.17. If their new doctrines be good, I shal acknowledge we have greatly synned: but if they be the high way to Antichristian promotion, and a bereaving of the Church of her right & power, as we are verily perswaded, and doo trust we have so proved it; then have they given sentence against themselves, and except they repēt, their condemnation shalbe just.
Notwithstanding al their former reasons, they after allege, that they reversed not their agreement concerning such as would goe and live with the Church at Leyden, but onelyonly about such as purposed to return and live here &c. I answer, by this al may judge whither the fear of God, or fleshly policie did more prevayl in them. For such of us as would have lived at Leyden, they pretend they could find warrant for it in Gods word, but shew none: they would let them there, refuse & speak evil of their pretended way of God, without leaving any thing to work vponupon their consciences, &c. and yet have peace with them as Christian brethren. OnelyOnly at Amsterdam these things might not be suffred. The Pope himself permitteth Iewes which never received his religion, to live in the same citie with him, where he is Prince: but these our adverse brethren, would not indure that wee, (though we never received their innovations,) should live in one city with them, where they were but strangers. What should we have found, if they had been Princes of the State? Secondly, they plainly reversed the agreement, as before was shewed, & when some of our brethren desired their testimonial, for to goe to Leyden, they refused to give it. And we could not tel before we came thither & tried, whether there would be meanes found for our living there or no. But strange and unheard of cruelty was in these men, that would bind us there to remain, though we and our families should be undoon; & being but strangers themselves in this city with us, would take upon them so imperiously to banish us the town, which the Lords of the city never offred. I wish they may find more merciemercy with the Lord at the day of Christ, then they have shewed unto us.
And wheras they object, that when we left them, we went not to Leyden, to ioyn our selves to that Church according to the agrement &c. I answer, there never was such agreement, that of our selves we should goe, but that by them we should be dismissed, and this they refused to doo, yea and publikly reversed the covenant that themselves had devised and twise confirmed: besides, that we of our own mind did never desire, but onelyonly for peace sake consented to that agreement, as before I shewed. Neyther was it ever agreed, that such onelyonly as would remayn there, should goe: but it was general for us al. But these their cariages shew, what dominion such Elders would exercise over Gods heritage; and how unpossible it was for us to have peace with them, that would thus turn and wind, say and unsay, agree of a thing to day, and break it to morow. Our sowles were wearied, with their turnings of devises.
Finally for our not remayning with them, til there was an answer of their Letter from Leyden, I answer, we taryed with them a good while after their foresayd letter, wheras we might upon their breaking of their own solemn agreement, added to al their former evils, justly have forsaken them. Neyther could the Church of Leyden (as it seemeth) tel what to advise us, and therfore gave no answer to their Letters, or to ours: and because they would have no hand in the breach between us, thought better to be silent; seing unto what extremitie things were brought. And the agreement between the Churches being disanulled, articles of warr and discord being proclaymed to us, and written of to them; delayes onelyonly sought to work our dissipation: we know no vvord of God, that bindeth us to suffer our selves to come into such bondage, vvith men that dayly in their publick doctrines and prayers, inveighed aginst the truth they formerly professed, vvounded the consciences of the brethren, and sought al occasions to dravv men from the right vvay and practise of the Gospel. What should vve doo, but shake off the dust of our f…et against such authors of errours, and peace breakers? Albeit in these our great troubles and strayts, we doubt not but many things through our ignorance and frayltie might be doon amyss; for vvhichwhich vve have, and doo alvvayes humbly ask mercy of God, that even our secret synns may be forgiven us. And touching the Church of Leyden, vvhose help they refused to desire, or consent to hav… d…sired, though novv for their advantage (as they think) they speak of them, and have printed some of the passages betvveen them: I have desired their Elders testimonie upon this occasion, that the ages present and to come, may have true information of these matters; vvhichwhich is as folovveth.