Conference Between Rainolds and Hart, Chapter 1
The first Chapter. 1 The occasion of the conference, the circumstances, and poyntes to be debated on. 2 The ground of the first poynt, touching the head of the Church. Wherein, how that title belongeth vntounto Christ, how it is giuen to the Pope: and so what is meant by the Popes supremacie.
RAINOLDES.
You hauehave heard, maister Hart, The first Diuision.from the Right honorable M. Secretarie Walsyngham, the cause why he hath sent for me to come vntounto you: to conferre with you concerning matters of religion, for the better informing of your conscience and iudgement. In the which respect you signified vntounto him your selfe to bee willing to conferre with any man: so that you might be charitably and Christianly dealt withall.
Hart.
In deede I did signifie so much to M. Secretarie: neither am I vnwilling to do that I hauehave promised. Howbeit, I wish rather, that if a conference be purposed, the learned men of our side, whome we hauehave many beyond sea, might be sent for hether, of riper yeares, and sounder iudgement. As for mée: the condition of conference with you is somewhat vn-euen. For I lie in prison, and am adiudged to dye: the closenesse of the one, & terror of the other, doth dull a mans spirits, and make him very vnfitte for study. I neither am of great yeares, nor euer was of great reading: and yet of that which I hauehave read I hauehave forgotten much, by reason of my long restraint. I am destitute of bookes: we are not permitted to hauehave any at all, sauing the Bible onelyonly. You of the other side may hauehave bookes at will: and you come fresh from the vniuersitie: whereby you are the readier to vse them and alleage them. These are great disaduantages, for me to enter into conference with you. Neuerthelesse, I am content, as I hauehave said, to do it: so that my wantes may be supplied with furniture of bookes, such as I shall desire.
Rainoldes.
The learned men of your side, it lyeth not in me to procure hether. I would to God none of them had euer come from Rome with traiterous intente, nay more then intent: aMorton into Englād, Sanders into Ireland. Sander. vi…ib. Monarc. lib. 7. S…nders l…tters to D. Allen & …l…ick Burke. Geneb …d. Chronogr. lib. 4.to moue rebellion against our Soueraine, and arme the subiectes against the Prince. It had fared better both with you and others, who came from him that sent them. Your imprisonment and daunger, which hath hereon ensued, I can more easily pittie then relieue. I wish you were at libertie: so that her highnes were satisfied, whome you hauehave offended. The condition of conference, the which is offred you: is not so vn-euen in deede as in shew. For although I come fresh from the vniuersitie: yet I come from one of those vniuersities, wherin bBristow Demaund. 41.your selues report, that few of vsus do study: and those few that study, study but a few questions of this time onelyonly: and that so lightly, that we be afeard to reason with common Catholikes: or, if we do reason,…oti… ▪ 31. the common sort of Catholikes are able to answere all our arguments, and to say also more for vsus, then wee can say for our selues. You of the other side hauehave béene brought vp in one of those Seminaries, wherein dDeman. 4….all trueth is studied, the maisters teach all trueth, the schollers learne all truth: & the course of diuinitie (which our students, nay our Doctors and Readers can not tel almost what it meaneth) The narration of the … …oome.is read ouer in foure years, with so great exactnes, that if a man follow his study diligently, he may become a learned Diuine, and take degree. Yea, besides the Lectures of positiue Diuinitie, of Hebrue, of controuersies, of Cases of conscience: the Lecture of Scholasticall Diuinitie alone, (wherein the whole bodie of perfit Theologie doth consist) doth teach, within the same foure yeares, all the poyntes of Catholike faith in such sort, that thereby the hearers come to vnderstand, not only what is in the scriptures about a matter of faith, but also whatsoeuer is in all the Tomes of Councels, wrytings of Fathers, volumes of Ecclesiastical histories, or in any other Author worthie the reading. Wherefore, sith you hauehave heard this course of diuinitie, and hauehave béene admitted to take degree therein vponupon the hearing of it: you may not alleage vnripenes of yeares, or reading, or iudgement: especially against me, before whome, in time so long, in place so incomparable, you tooke degrée in diuinitie: if yet our degrées may goe for degrées, …ulla Pi…. Quint. anno 156…. as Bristow saith Dem. 41.the Pope hauing depriued vsus of them. But you hauehave no bookes, sauing the Bible onelyonly. You are, it is likely, the redier in that booke: chiefly sith gNarrat. of the Engl…sh Semin. in Ro…eat Rhemes beside your priuat studie of it, you were exercised in it dayly, by reading ouer certaine Chapters, wherein the hard places were all expounded, the doubtes noted, the controuersies which arise betwixt you and vsus resolued, the arguments, which our side can bring vntounto the contrarie, perspicuously and fully answered. So that with this armour you are the more strongly prepared against me: who can be content to deale with you in conference by that booke alone, as by the booke of all trueth. Notwithstanding, though you complaine, I know you may hauehave more bookes, if you would hauehave such as are best for you to read. But you would hauehave such as might nourish your humor: from reading of the which they, who restraine you, are your friendes. If a man do surfet of varietie of dishes, the Phisicion doth well to dyet him with one wholsome kinde of meat. Perhaps it were better for some of vsus, who read all sortes, that we were tyed to that alone, & suffred part of your restraint. We are troubled about many things: but one thing is needfull. Many please the fansie better; but one doth profit more ye minde. He was a wise preacher, who said, hEcclesia…. 1…. vers. 12.The reading of many bookes is a wearinesse vntounto the flesh: and therefore exhorted men to take instruction by *ver. 10. &. 11.the wordes of trueth, the wordes of the wise, which are giuen by one pastor: euen by Iesus Christ, i1. Pet. 1.11, 12.whose spirit did speake in the Prophets and Apostles, and taught his Church the trueth by them. Howbeit, for as much as kEphes. 4.8, 11.God hath giuen giftes to men, pastours, and teachers, whose labour might helpe vsus to vnderstand the words of that one pastor: we do receaue thankfully the monuments of their labour, left in wryting to the Church, which they were set to builde, eyther seuerall, as the Doctors; or assembled, as the Councels: & we do gladly read them as Pastors of the Church. Yet so, that we put a difference betwene them, and that one Pastor. For lIoh. 3.…4.God did giuegive him the spirite not by measure: the rest mRom. 12.3. Ephe…. 4 …had a measure of grace and knowledge through him. Wherfore, if to supply your whatsoeuer wants, you would hauehave the bookes of Doctors and Councels, to vse them as helps for the better vnderstanding of the booke of Christ: your wants shal be supplyed, you shall not need to feare disaduantage in this respect. For M. Secretarie hath taken order that you shall hauehave what bookes you will: vnlesse you will such as cannot be gotten.
Hart.
The bookes that I would hauehave, are principally in déed the Fathers and the Councels: which all do make for vsus, as do the scriptures also. But for my direction to finde out their places in all poyntes of controuersie which I can neither remember redily, nor dare to trust my selfe in them: I would hauehave our writers, which in the seuerall poyntes (whereof they treate) hauehave cited them, and buyld themselues vponupon them. In the question of the Church and the supremacie, Principior. fidei doctrinaliū demonstrat. method.Doctor Stapleton; of the Sacraments, and sacrifice of the Masse, oDe Sacramentis in gen. de sacram. & sacrific. …charist.Doctor Allen; of the worshipping of Sayntes and Images, pDialog. sex contr. summi Pontificat. &c. oppugnatores ab Al…no Copo editi.Doctor Harpsfield, whose bookes were set forth by Alan Cope, & beare his name, as qIn the end of the booke after the last dialogue, A. H. L. N. H. E. V. E. A. C. that is to say, Autor huius libri Nicolaus Harpsfield…eum vero edidit Alanus Copus.certaine letters in them shew. Likewise for the rest of the pointes that lie in controuersie, them who in particular hauehave best written of them: & for them al in generall, S. rSumm. Theolog. & in Magistr. Sent.Thomas of Aquine, & s…ctata Rob…r…. Politan. in Summ. Theolog. …hom. Aqu.Father Roberts Dictates, and chiefly Con…ess. Augu…tin. Hiero…. To…en. … Pa…is. 1…80the confession that Torrensis, an other father of the societie of Iesus, hath gathered out of S. Augustine, which booke we set the more by, u…. Con…ss. Augusti. ad Lector.because of al the Fathers S. Augustine is the chéefest, as well in our as your iudgement: and his doctrine is the common doctrine of the Fathers: whose consent is the rule whereby controuersies should be ended.
Rainoldes.
These you shall hauehave (God willing) and if you will Opus catechisticum Pet. Canii. Iesuit.Canisius too: because he is so full of textes of Scriptures, and Fathers, and many doe estéeme him highly. But this I must request you, to looke on the originalles of Scriptures, Councels, Fathers, which they doe alleadge. For they doe perswade you that all doe make for you: but they abuse you in it. They borrow some gold out of the Lordes treasure house, and wine out of the Doctors presses▪ but they are deceitful workmen, they do corrupt their golde with drosse, their wine with worse then water.
Hart.
You shall finde it harder to conuince them of it, then to charge them with it.
Rainoldes.
And you shall finde it harder to make proofe of halfe, then to make claime of all. Yet you shall see both youre claime of all the Scriptures and Fathers to bee more confidente then iust: and my reproofe of your wryters for theyr corrupting and forging of them, as plainly prooued as vttered, if you hauehave eyes to see. God lighten your eyes, that you may see: & open your eares, that you may heare: and geue you both a softe hart and vnderstanding minde, that you may be able wisely to discerne, and gladly to embrace the trueth when you shall heare it.
Hart.
I trust I shall be able alwayes, both to see, and to followe the trueth. But I am perswaded you will be neuer able to shew that that is the trueth, which your Church professeth. As by our conference (I hope) it shalbe manifest.
Rainoldes.
UUill you then (to lay the ground of our conference) let me know the causes why you separate your selfe, and refuse to communicate with the Church of England in prayers and religion?
Hart.
The causes are not many. They may be al comprysed in one. Your Church is no Church: You are not members of the Church.
Rainoldes.
How proue you that?
Hart.
By this argument. The Church is a companie of Christian men professing one faith, vnderunder one head. You professe not one faith, vnderunder one head. Therefore you are not of the Church.
Rainoldes.
What is that one faith?
Hart.
The catholike faith.
Rainoldes.
Who is that one head?
Hart.
The Bishop of Rome.
Rainoldes.
Then both the propositions, of which you frame your argument, are in part faultie. The first, in that you say, the church is a companie of Christian men vnderunder one head. The second, in that you charge vsus of the church of England, that wee professe not one faith. For we do professe that one faith, the catholike faith. But we deny that the church is bound to be subiect to that one head, the bishop of Rome.
Hart.
I will proue the pointes of both my propositions, the which you hauehave denied. First, that the church must be subiect to the Bishop of Rome as to her head. Next, that the faith, which you professe in England is not the catholike faith.
Rainoldes.
You will say somewhat for them: but you will neuer proue them.
Hart.
Let the church iudge. For the first, thus I proue it.The second Diuision. S. Peter was head of all the Apostles. The Bishop of Rome succeedeth Peter, in the same power ouer Bishops, that he had ouer the Apostles. Therefore the Bishop of Rome is head of all Bishops. If of Bishops; then by consequent of the dioceses subiect to them. If of all their dioceses; then of the whole church. The Bishop of Rome therefore is head of the whole church of Christ.
Rainoldes.
S. Peter was head of all the Apostles? The Bishop of Rome is head of all Bishops? I had thought that Christ our Sauiour both was, and is the head, as of the whole church, so of Apostles, of Bishops, of all the members of it. For the church is his body: and he alone performeth the dutie of an head vntounto it, by giuing it power of life, of feeling, of mouing: and yEphes 1.2….him hath God appointed to be the head to the Church, and zColos. 2.19.by him all the body furnished and knit togither by iointes and bandes, encreaseth with the encreasing of God.
Hart.
We graunt that Christ is properly the head of the church, the principall and quickning head. But this head is imperiall, so to terme him, and inuisible. The Pope is a visible, and ministeriall head: yet in truth a head also. *Staplet. principior. doctr. lib. 6. cap. 16.For of the head there are two dueties: the one, to bee the fountaine out of the which there floweth life into the rest of the body; the other, to direct *Suo imperio.by his rule and power the outward functions of the body. The former duety doth agree to God alone and Christ. The later, to the seruice and ministery of men too.
Rainoldes.
This your answere of two heades doth stand with more reason, then aPope Boniface the 8. c. vnam sanctam. extra. De maio…it. & obedient.his, who said that Christ, and Christes vicar Peter, and Peters successor the Pope, are all but one head of the church. Howbeit, so to make a twofold head, as you do, by the variety of two dueties: it is not to diuide but to rent a sunder the dueties of the head, and to make the Pope a head imperiall rather then a ministeriall. For, by rule and power to direct either the inward or outward functions of the bodie, is the chiefe and proper function of the head, agréeing to that head alone, that giueth power of life and féeling and mouing to the body. Wherefore, sith Christ, hauing bound him selfe by his promise bMat. 28.20.to be with vsus vntill the end of the world, doth giuegive this power vntounto his church by the effectuall working of his holy spirite, which doth quicken both the whole and eueryevery member of his body: they who do diuide the preeminence of this duety betwéene him and the Pope, allotting to him the inward, to the Pope the outward functions to be directed, deserue to be attainted of treason against the Lord. For séeing that to exercise this rule and dominion, is a prerogatiue royall, and proper to the king of kings: to giuegive it either in whole or in part to any subiect, can not be a lesser offence then hie treason.
Hart.
If you account this to be treason against the Lord, and do attaint vsus of it: You must attaint him selfe of it, who by his word hath brought vsus to it. For S. Paule comparing the church vntounto a body, to shew the sundry giftes of Christians, and in their sundry giftes their seuerall dueties by the similitude of members, doth mention a head amongst them: c1. Cor. 12.21.The e…e cannot say vntounto the hand, I hauehave no neede of thee, nor the head to the feete, I hauehave no neede of you. Here the name of head must by al likelyhood bee meant of the Pastor in respect of the flock. But it cannot be meant of Christ. For he may say to vsus, I hauehave no neede of you: and so he willeth vsus also dLuc. 17.10.(when we shal hauehave done all things that are cōmanded vsus) to say, we are vnprofitable seruants. It must be meant therefore of Peter in respect of the rest of the Apostles, and by consequent of the Pope in respect of all Bishops.
Rainoldes.
If Paule had so meant it, either of Peter or of the Pope: he had a tongue of the learned, he could easily hauehave so expounded it. But, in the applying of his similitude to his purpose, he sheweth that he meant, by the name of head, them who had the greatest graces of Gods spirite: by feete, hands, and eies, them who not so great, though greater some then other.
Hart.
Them who had the greatest? Nay: the name of head doth shew it must be one, and that, one visible head (which wée call a ministeriall head vnderunder Christ) proportionable to the body of Christ, I meane the Church. Of the which visible and ministeriall head those wordes of S. Paule may bee truely verified, The head cannot say to the feete, I hauehave no neede of you.
Rainoldes.
Indeede, if the Pope be signified by the head, those words will fitte him well. For eReginald. Pol. Card. pro ecclesiast. vnitat. defens. ad Henric. octau. lib. 1.Cardinall Poole discoursing on the same reason of the Popes supremacie, doth make as him the head, so kings to be the féete. And it is true the Pope can not say to kings, I hauehave no neede of you. It would bée hard going for him if they were not. But if, because Saint Paule doth in that similitude mention a head, therefore there must be one visible head proportionable to the body of Christ, that is, ye Church: then because S. Paule doth mention the féete, there must bee néedes also two visible féete, by the like proportion. Now I would gladly know of you Maister Hart, which you will make the two féete of your church. The Emperour I trow, must be the right foote. The left, who? The king of Spaine? What shall the French king do then? It is well that the king of Scots is no member of it: nor the king of Denmarke. Marry we had newes of the king of Swethland that Iesuits had conuerted him. Shal he be the left foote? Or shall the king of Poleland set in a foote for it? Or is the king of Boheme nearer it? There is a king of Bungo too,fIesuit. in epist. Iapon. lib. 2. & 4. who is reported to protect your religion in his countries, and gThe epistle to the Councell see before the epistle of the persecution of Catholicks in England.likewise the Great Turke, & other princes of Mahomets sect: they may be féete in time also. But how many féete may this body hauehave? May it hauehave sixe, seauen, eight, may it hauehave twentie visible féete: and may it not hauehave ten, not foure, not two, may it hauehave but one visible head?
Hart.
Cardinall Pole compareth kinges vntounto féete, not as though they were the lowest partes of the church, (for hée counteth them as speciall members, though not heads) but because the church in the course of her growth was last of all increased with them, as with féete, and so did make an end of growing.
Rainoldes.
Then in Saint Paules time the church had no féete, but a head without them. And what doth he meane to saye that the head could not speake to the feete, when it had no féete to speake too?
Hart.
Yes, it had féete then, but of an other sort. For they, who were of lower degrees and meaner giftes in the church of Christ, are resembled to féete in comparison of others who were in those respects as hands, and eies, aboue them.
Rainoldes.
And do you thinke the church had but two such féete? Or had it many hundreds? For christians were growne Ac…. 4.4long before to thousands, and it is not likely the most of them were eyes and hands.
Hart.
It had (no doubt) many. But you must not racke the members of similitudes beyond the principall pointes whereto they are applied and meant. For els you might infer too, that the church must hauehave but two eies, and two hands, because a mans body (to which S. Paule resembleth the church) hath no more.
Rainoldes.
As you say. Yet this is the mould of your owne reason, wherein you cast the church to hauehave one visible head proportionable to the body. A fansy more proportionable to the limmes of Popery, then to Saint Paules doctrine touching the body of Christ. For his drift and purpose therein is to shew, that i1. Cor. 12. ve…s. 14. & 20.as a mans body is made of sundry members, kver. 21. & 25.which are not all as excellent one as an other, the hand as the head, the foote, as the hand, yet they are ioined togither to care one for an other, all to maintaine the bodie: lver. 27. and 28.so the bodie of Christ, that is to say, the church consisteth of sundry Christians, as members, some of greater gifts and callings then some, the Apostles then yt teachers, the teachers then the helpers, mvers. 31, & the 13. & 1…. chapters.yet al ioyned together to louelove and serue one an other, and kéepe the church in vnitie. wherby it is manifest, first, that in naming nver. 21.the head he considereth it not as a head properly, but onelyonly as a principall member. For so he applieth it, naming all Christians, over. 27.members: and calling them the bodie of Christ, he putteth Christ to be the head. Next, that by the name of head so considered, hée meaneth no one man, but all pver. 28. first, Apostle….the Apostles, as them who were indued with the chéefest gifts, and placed in the highest function. UUherefore if that word be strained to the vttermost, as far as by the text it may: the proofe that it yeldeth will argue a preeminence of the Apostles in generall ouer the inferiour members of the church, but no power of Peter ouer the rest of the Apostles, much lesse of the Pope ouer his fellow-bishops.
Hart.
Yet this it doth proue, that the name of head is not so giuen vntounto Christ, but that it may be giuen vntounto a mortall man also. Not as a head properly (you say,) but as a principall member. And what said I els? For I graunted that Christ is properly the head of the church: the Pope improperly. Yet you reproued me for it.
Rainoldes.
I reproued you not because you gaue the title of head vntounto the Pope, for hee should be a pastour of the church of Rome: and pastours (for their giftes aboue the members of their churches) ought to be like heads, though many of them be tailes eEsai. 9.1….as the prophet calleth them: but because you named him head of the whole church, and that in such sort as it is due to none but Christ. For though you graunted Christ to be the quickening head, that is to say, the fountaine whence there floweth life into the rest of the bodie: yet you gaue the Pope this soueraintie of headship, that he should direct *Suo … ▪by his rule and power the outward functions of the bodie. Wherein, as of the one side you debase the worthinesse of his gifts, who giueth vsus Pastors and Teachers, in that you doe appoint them to guide onelyonly the outward functions of his bodie, whereas fEphes. 4.12.he hath giuen them 1foreign.to the ful perfiting of his Saintes: so, of the other side you detract somewhat from the soueraintie of Christ, when you giuegive his seruants dominion to guide his church by rule and power, whereas they are ordeined, 2foreign.to the worke of the ministery. Wherfore, howsoeuer you alay the title which you giuegive the Pope, and say you call him head, not properly, but improperly, a ministeriall head: yet you doe imply that in this [improperly] which can agrée to none but him that properly is a head, a head that doeth quicken, guide, and moue the bodie. Euen as in gc. Ita Domi…us. Distinct. 19.your Canon lawe it is said of Peter: The Lord did commit the charge of preaching the truth vntounto him principally, *Cited out of Leo, in ye Rhemish trāslatiō of the new Testament, to proue Peters primacie, in ye annot. on Mat. 16. ver. 18.to the intent that from him, as it were from a certaine head, he might powre abroad his gifts as it were into all the bodie.
Hart.
These wordes that you reproue in the Canon lawe, are the wordes of a man of singular wit and iudgement, famous both for holinesse and learning, hLeo Epist. 87.Saint Leo, an auncient father, who did flourish *About the yere of Christ 440.aboue a thousand yeares ago.
Rainoldes.
They a…e the wordes I grant, of an auncient, a wittie, a learned holie man, but a man: and, that is more, a Bishop of Rome. Now men, euen the holiest, iRom. 7 18.while they liue in the flesh, hauehave some contagion of the flesh: and learning may puffe vp, k1. Cor. 8.1.as it did the Corinthians: and the best wittes are soonest tainted with ambition: yea lMat. 20.22.Iames and Iohn, *Marc. 3.17.the sonnes of thunder, desired superioritie: and Rome a great Citie did nourish great statelinesse, and that mSocrat. histor. eccle. lib. 7. cap. 11. Ammian. Marcell. histor. lib. 27.euen in the Bishops of that Citie *About the yeare of Christ 370.before Leo. So they louing preeminence, as n3. Iohn ver. 9.Diotrephes did, tooke all occasions to get it, and sought some colours to mainteine it. Wherefore, as one (in oCic. in Hortens.Tully) said to Hortensius, when he immoderately praysed eloquence, that hee would hauehave lift her vp into heauen, that himselfe might hauehave gone vp with her, as hauing greatest right vntounto her: so many Bishops of Rome, and Leo not the least of them, did lift vp Saint Peter with prayses to the skye, that themselues might rise vp with him, as being forsooth his pLeo sermon. 1. in anniuers. die assumpt. suaeheires. The Epistles and Sermons of Leo hauehave manifest markes of this affection: as, to giuegive a taste of them, qEpist. 87.The Lord did take Peter into the feloship of the indiuisible vnitie: and, rEpist. 61.Wee acknowledge the most singular care of the most blessed Peter for vsus all, in this that God hath loosed the deceites of all slaunderers: and, sEpist. 50.My writings be strengthened by the merite and authoritie of my Lorde most blessed Peter the Apostle: and, tEpist. 62.Peter hauing confirmed the iudgement of his See in decision of faith, hath not suffered any thing amisse to be seene about any of your persons, who hauehave labored with vsus for the Catholike faith: and, uEpist. 87.We beseech you, and aduise you to keepe the thinges decreed of vsus, through the inspiration of God, & the Apostle most blessed Peter: &, xSer. 2. in anniuer. die. assumpt. suae.If any thing be well done or decreed of vsus, if any thing bee obtained of Gods mercy by daily praiers, it is to be ascribed to S. Peters workes and merites, whose power doth liue, and authoritie excell in his owne See: and, ySerm. 3. in aniuer. die assumpt. suae.He was so plentifully watred of the fountaine of all graces, that whereas he receiued many things alone, yet nothing passeth ouer to any man but by him. To be short, Leo, & by his exāple his successors after him, are so full of such spéeches, that in the common phrase of themselues and their Secretaries, all thinges pertaining to the Popes, were growne to be S. Peters: their prerogatiue, zEpist. 45.S. Peters right: their dignitie, aIbid.Saint Peters honour; their statelinesse, bEpist 87. & Sermon. 1. in ann. die assump. suae.S. Peters reuerence; subiection to them, cEpist. 87.subiection to S. Peter; A message from them, dEpist. 24.an embassage from S. Peter; Things done in their presence, eEpist. 4.done in S. Peters presence: Landes and possessions giuen them, fPlatina de vit. Pont. in Iohan. sept.giuen to S. Peter: And when they would hauehave kingdomes, gHelmoid. in Chronic. Slauer… lib. 1. cap. 81.Princes must get them for S. Peter: Their territories and Lordships, hPope Innocent the third Extra. c. per venerabilem. qui filij sintlegitimi.S. Peters patrimonie: Their *Bernard. de consid. ad Eug. lib. 2.vsurpations tyrannicall, iAbb. Vrsperg. in Chron. Hen. quint. Onuphr. de septem vrb. eccles. in Palat. Lateranensi.S. Peters royalties: Their good will, kGreg. Regist. lib. 4. Epist. 34.His fauour: Their communion, llib. 7. Epist. 69.His peace: Their indignation, mPlatina de vitis Pont. in Greg. Sept.His curse: Their signet, nPopes in their letters sub anulo piscatoris. As Gregory the 13. in approbat. sodalit. B. Mari.His ring: Their closet, oPope Innocent the fourth extra. cap. Maiores. de baptism. & eius effect.His See: Their Citie, pOnuphr. de sept. vrbis ecclesi. cap. 1.His borough: Their poll mony qDenarius Beati Petri. Eccles. Anglican. in concil. Lugdun. apud Mat. Paris in Henr. 3., euen Peter pence too. Yea, it may be, that shortly they will take vp Peter for a surname, as the Romane Emperours did the name of Caesar. For rFrancisc. Vargas de episcopor. iurisdict. & Pont. Max. autori. proposit. 4. confirmat. 4.a famous Lawier & Patrone of the Papacy, saith, that the Popes may al be called Peters. And sCampian. Rat. 4.our countriman who was sent to display the Popes banner & *Summum honorem primae sedis episcopo, id … Petro, deferes.chalenge highest honour for him, doth name him the Bishop of the first See, that is to say, Peter. And De autoritate pontificis, ad Stanislaum O…cho.Cardinal Hosius one of ye Popes lieutenants in his Councell of Trent, doth write, that there is onelyonly one vniuersall patriarke, Who? *Petrus Romanus.Peter of Rome: and that Peter of Rome did send his messengers vntounto English, French, Dutch, and other nations, to call them to the Councell of Trent. Not Peter *Ioh. 1.44.of Bethsaida, but Peter of Rome did it.
Hart.
These thinges are small the most of them, and vsed to encrease a reuerend estimation and opinion of that Sée, to the which our Sauior committed the principalitie and gouernment of his church. As for the pointes that séeme greater in the words of Leo: they may be defended. For where he saieth, that Christ tooke Peter into the fellowship of the indiuisible vnitie: hée might meane vnitie in will not in substance, as Christ doth pray for his disciples, uIoh. 17.11.Holy father, keepe them in thy name, that they may be one, as we are. Where he doth honour Peter with the title of my Lord: it is a common title, and giuen men of state both spirituall and temporall: yea xIoh. 20.15.Mary Magdalen called him Lord (the word *Domine: as Leo, Domini mei.in Latin is the same) whom shée supposed to be a gardiner. The like might be said for the defense of the rest: with as great probabilitie and perhaps greater, then you hauehave to mislike them.
Rainoldes.
The smaller thinges, which you call, are some of them small, I graunt, but like small holes in ships, at the which a great deale of water wil come in, inough to drowne the shippe, if they be left open as long as these hauehave beene in the shippe of the church. They had encreased such an opinion of the Pope of Rome, Saint Peters See, as they tearmed it: that although hee practised not a principalitie geuē him by Christ, but an outragious tiranny vsurped by him selfe ouer Kings and Nations: yet neither kings nor Nations almost, durst speake against him, at the least resiste him. For if they did offend the Pope, they thought they did offende S. Peter. Now of S. Peter they were taught, that he is porter of heauen gates. They feared the porter would let none in, sauing the Pope his *c. Ego Ludo…icus. distinct. 63. c. non qual…. …. q. 1.vicars frends. So, to get eternal life, they serued, and pleased, and féeed the Pope, least that if he shoulde frowne vponupon them, Saint Peters fauour should be lost. UUherfore how small soeuer those things of Peter séeme in trifling kindes of common spéeches: they brought no small aduantage to Peter of Romes Court, and wealth into his Treasurie. It is recorded yBeda ecclesiast. histor. gen. Anglor. lib. 3. cap. 25.of King Oswy in our English Story, that when, vponupon a controuersy about the celebrating of Easter, there was a Synode assembled, and the one part alleadged, that they followed the East Churches, which had receiued their rite of Iohn the Euangelist, the Disciple whom Christ loued; the other part replyed, that they followed the Church of Rome, which had receiued theirs of Peter, to whom Christ gaue the keyes of the kingdome of heauen: the King tooke vp the matter, and iudged with the Church of Rome, For *Ego vobis dico quia hic est ostiarius ille, cui ego contradicere no lo.I tell you, quoth he, that Peter is the porter, whom I wil not gainesay, nay, I wil obey his orders in all respectes, as farre as I skill and can, leaste when I come to the doores of the kingdome of heauen, there be none to open if hee be displeased who doth keepe the keyes. This grosse imagination of the keyes and porter, and corrupt opinion of power to shut and open committed vntounto Peter only, (which the good king conceyued of simplicitie, his Cleargie should hauehave taught him better, but they did all agrée vntounto it, and zBrist. motiu. 24. Staplet. in his English Bede Note (saith he) the conclusion of the king.their successors praise King Oswy:) the Captaines of the Church of Rome perceyuing it to be commodious for the aduauncement of their kingdome, and conquering of all the earth, hauehave nourished very cunningly, by aDo for vsus, that S. Peter may forgiue your sins. Gregory. to the Empresse, Regist. lib. 4. ep. 34.their lessons, bS. Peters successor.their titles, cS. Peters Keyes.their armes, dS. Peters banner. Genebrard. Chronograph. lib. 4. append.their ensignes, eRepresenting the keyes as giuen onelyonly to Peter.their pictures, and other legions of policies, all in S. Peters name. And on the credite of S. Peter they hauehave pronounced that fc. Sic omnes. Distinct. 19.all ordinances of their See must be receiued, euen as if Peter had confirmed them. They hauehave taughte, that gPope Agatho in epist. Sext. Synod. Constāt. act. 4.their Church persisteth pure from all error, by the grace and helpe of Peter. They hauehave decreed that hc. in memoriam. disti…ct. 19.although it lay a yoake almost intolerable on vsus, yet we must beare it patiently in the remembrance of S. Peter. They hauehave set abroach in the donation of Constantine, that ic. Constantinu… Distinct. 96.he gaue them his owne crowne, of golde most pure and pretious stones, to weare in honor of S. Peter, and that hee held the bridle and stirrope of the Popes horse in reuerence of S. Peter. They hauehave made the Emperour, as the Popes vasall, to become kSacra…. ceremon. ecclesia Roman. libr. …. sect. 5.S. Peters knight, and take his oath vntounto S. Peter, that hee will restore S. Peters lande vntounto the Pope, if he get any of it, and wil helpe the Pope to defende S. Peters land. They hauehave brought Archbishops to thinke lc. Quoniam quidam. Distin… 1….their power is nothing, vnlesse the Pope do send them from mSacrar. ceremonia. eccle. Roman. lib. 1. sect. 10.S. Peters body, a pall, which hath the fulnesse of the pontifical duetie. Bishops they hauehave bound nc. Ego N. Episcopus. extra. de iureiurando.to promise by their oath allegiance and fealtie, to Saint Peter, the Romane Church, and their Lord the Pope. Yea, oFelinus Comment. in c. Ego N. episcopus de iureiurando.from Bishops they hauehave brought the oath vntounto them, who receyue dignities. And that which passeth all the rest, whereas the forme of the oath pc. Ego N. Episcopus. Papatum sanctae Romanae ecclesiae & regulas sanctorū patrum adiutorero ad defendendū & retinendum.in the Canon Law doth bynde them to defend regulas sanctorum patrum, the rules of the holy fathers: the Pope hath *Pope Gregory the 7. Mat. Paris in Henrico tert.heretofore, and Pope Gregory the 13. in bulla ad Mauricium episcopum Imelacensem.now doth put in stéed thereof, regalia sancti Petri, the roialties of S. Peter. Such praies your Eagles take, though you do count them flyes. But let them be flyes or fowles, I wil not striue. Onelie this I say, let the wise consider it, and marke the degrées of encrease in the Papacie, and they shal perceiue in this (what shall I call it) of Saint Peters name, that although it were not any of the greatest, it was one of the finest trickes of spiritual coosinage, that hath enriched the Pope, and set the Church of Rome so hie. Now, to come from these lesser vntounto the greater pointes in Leo, I know, if a man list to be contentious, it is an easie matter to say somewhat probably for the defense of his words. Yea though hee had named Peter, not only my Lord, but (as qIohn 20.28.Thomas did our Sauiour) My Lord & my God. It is a desperate cause that wil admit no colour. The Hardin. confutation of the Apologie. The Author of the discouery of Nichols.Stewes of Rome hauehave found patrones, and sIohan. Casa episcop. Bene…ent.that which is worse then Stewes. The tSueton. in vita Domitian.heathens called Domitian, Our Lord God the Emperor. A uc. Cum inter. in glossa. extravagant. Ioh. 22.Canoniste saith of the Pope, Our Lord God the Pope. Blasphemous spéeches both: yet a quareller might alleadge in defense of them, xPsal. 82.6.I hauehave sayde, ye are Gods. But the very ySueton. & Sext. aur. Vict. in Domit.heathens, by the light of nature mislyked the one, as insolent: neither hauehave I read any Papiste, no nor Iesuite, that durst defend the other. It was a common practise amongst the young students of our Uniuersities in the time of the Dunses, (and is yet amongst too many, whom spottes of Dunsery hauehave stayned,) that if in disputation they were brought to an inconuenience, were it neuer so absurd: they would hauehave a distinction, though voyde of braine and sense, yet a distinction to mainteyne it. If a man wil be peruerse, it is no mastery to doe it. But as zVine… lib. 1. de causis art. corrupt.a wise and learned man doth say of them, that they are base wits which are so affected, whereas ingenuous mindes & natures wel geuen, wil rather seeke howe true that is which they holde, then how they may defend it, making greater price of veritie then victorie: so I may say (yea much more in matters of religion, of faith, of life eternall) a Christian witte, and godly minde will search and weigh rather, what should be saide truely, then what may be said probably, or colourably at the lest. And I wish, if it had béene the good will of God, master Campian had had the grace in the Tower-conference to hauehave aimed at this marke: rather in sinceritie to hauehave sought the truth, then with shiftes and cauilles the mayntenance of his cause and credit. But though he were froward, and did shut his eyes against the beams of the light: yet doe you not so for Gods sake, master Hart, in this conference of ours. Be content to open your minde to hys grace, who *Re…. 3.2….standeth at the dore & knocketh: and hearken to aHebr. 3.13.his voice while it is to day. Beware of their example, who bIoh. 5.44.could not beleeue, or if they did beleeue, cIoh. 12.…3.durst not confes Christ: because they loued the praise of men more then the praise of God, and hunted after honor one of another, not seking for that honor which commeth from the Lord alone, Deny your selfe. and your frends, and all fleshly respectes, & geue the glory to the Highest.
Hart.
I neither séeke for shiftes to darken the trueth, nor louelove the praise of men more then the praise of God. It were a madnesse for a man to aduenture his life (as we doe, you see,) for the maintenance of error, or of his own credit. As for M. Campian I thinke of him as of my selfe. I heard the disputations, wherein he answered them who came to reason with him: and I perceyued nothing in any of his answeres, but synceritie and trueth.
Rainoldes.
My selfe was not present at the disputations, but I hauehave read them 1In a booke intitled: A true declaration & report of the conference had in the Tower of London with Cā pian, &c. wr… ten by one … was present at the whole action.written: and that (least you suspect the wryter as partiall) by a fauourer of yours, who was present, as he saith, at the whole action. And (I doe affyrme it in singlenesse of heart, as before the Lord: neither doe I doubt but al who hauehave the wisdome to discerne spirites wil see the same, if they peruse them:) he sought in such sort to maintaine the credite of his cause or person, as though he had set nothing more before his eyes, then to perswade his *Mat. …3.1…proselytes, that nothing could bee brought against him, but he would shew it made for him. I would not say so much vnlesse I knew it by his fruites. For, to passe ouer his often glosing against the text, and facing out of places which pressed him most forcibly: thinges alleadged out of the dAs of the second Nicen councell action. quint.Councels, of the eAs of Chrysostom in Mat. hom. 49. oper. imperf.Fathers, of fAs of Gratian. dist. 19. can. in canonicis.others, which by the iudgementes of your gFor the Nicen councel, Sixt. Senens. biblioth. sanct. lib. 5. annot. 8. Barthol. Carrāz. in samm. concil. For Chrysostom Sixt. Senens. bib· sanct. l. 6. ann. 104. Robert. Bellarmin. controu. 1. quaest. 6. For Gratian, Alfons. a Castr. aduersus haer. lib. 1. cap. 2. Andrad. defension. sidei. Trident. lib. 3. and Campian himself almost too at last.own doctors, hauehave that sense wherin we cyte them, he by shifts and cauilles would turne their neckes cleane about, and wreste them vntounto his side: which argued more witte then trueth, and sophistrie then sinceritie. But to leaue him to the Lords iudgemēt, and come vntounto your selfe: you neither séeke for shiftes (you say) to darken the trueth, nor louelove the praise of men more then the praise of God. I pray God your déedes be not as plaine to prooue you do it, as the reason which you adde to proue you do it not, is weake. For what although it were a madnesse to doe it? Many things are done which madde men scarce would doe, and yet they that doe them doe think themselues well in their wittes, as hAugustin. epist. …0. ad Bonif. Com.the Donatistes did, who aduentured their liues in most desperate maner for the defence of their error, and maintenance of theyr credite: yea they offred themselues to the sword, the fire, the water, séeking for death as for a treasure, that they might die (they thought) Martyrs. But whether you doe set the praise of men at that price, I leaue it to your owne conscience. That you seeke for shiftes, the thing it self doth crie. For your very answere in the defense of Leo, touching vnitie of will, not vnitie of substance, on these words of his, that iLeo ep. 87.Christ receiued Peter into the felowship of the indiuisible vnity: is a shifte to shield him from a iust reproofe. Let his owne Discourse speake, and it wil graunt it. For hauing saide before that Christ did place Peter as it were a certaine head, to poure his giftes from him as it were into all the body: to this poynt he knitteth *Hunc enim in consortium indiuiduae vnitatis assumptum id quod ipse erat, voluit nominari.these words by way of proofe. So that if the proofe hauehave any kin with the thing proued, the words must néedes import some preeminence in Peter aboue all the rest of the Disciples of Christ. But vnitie of wil, wherein kIoh. 17. vers. 11.Christ doth pray that his Disciples may be one as he is one with his Father, is common vntounto all, not peculiar to Peter, lver. 20. & 21.as Christ himselfe doth shewe. That plaister then of yours hath no vertue in it to salue the sore of Leo. Neither can you cure it indéed with any other. For the vnitie, which the Scriptures doe note in God and vsus, is of three sortes: the first of persons in one nature; the second of natures in one person; the third of sundrie natures and persons in one qualitie. In the first is mDeut. 6.4.One God: In the second is n1. Cor. 8.6.One Christ: In the third is oCant. 6.8.One church. The Lord receiued not Peter into the first vnitie: wherein the father, the sonne, the holy Ghost, are one God. Not into the second: wherein he himselfe consisting of two natures (God, and man) is one Christ. Into the third, wherein the Churche is one with Christ her head, and the Churches members are one amōgst them selues, he did receaue Peter: but in societie with his brethren, not without them in singularitie. pAct. 4.3….The multitude of the belieuers were of one hart, and of one soule: They all are qEphes. 4.4.one body, sanctified by one spirit, through the Sacrament of one baptisme, knit to Christ by one faith, to themselues in one louelove, to serue togither one Lord, in one hope and expectation of one eternall blisse and glory. So that, of this vnitie, whereof Peters state and nature is capable, apply which you list vntounto the wordes of Leo, either vnitie of will, as you seeme to do; or vnity of grace, as rHarding in his Detect. lib. 3. cap. 33.others answere for it; or vnitie of glory, which sIoh. 17. vers. 22. & 24.Christ did pray for also, and some will like that better: none of these doe reach vntounto that maiestie, which Leos wordes aspire to by giuing him the felowship of the indiuisible vnitie. Yet God forbid that any man should suspect of him, that he meant vnitie, either of nature with God, or of person with Christ. He hath deserued better, tIn Ephesin. synod. secund. & concil, Chalced. Leo. ep. 10. ad. Flauianum.then to be thought so euill off. But that which in trueth may be said for him, is, that his meaning was (as uSermon. 2. in anniuers. die. assumpt. suae. Serm. 2. in Nata. Apost. Pet. & Paul.other-where him selfe doth open it,) that Christ did impart his name of rocke and foundation of the church to Peter. Now, some mist of fansie daisled his eyes, or els he would neuer hauehave saide thereupon, that Christ receyued Peter into the felowship of the indiuisible vnitie: and that, in such preeminence, as he receyued none but him: chiefly, sith hée imparted his greater names and titles of xHebr. 4, 8. Colos. 4.11. Aggae. 2.2. Zachar. 3.1.Iesus, of Psal. 105.15.Christ, of zMat. 5.14.the light of the world, one of them to some, the rest to all his seruants: neither did he giuegive his name of rocke to Peter, or of foundation to Peter onelyonly, as shall appeare *Chap. 2. Diuis. 1.after. But if yet you see not, that Leo did outreach, in making Peter as it were a felow-head, a partie-rocke, and the halfe-foundation of the Church with Christ: behold a farther felowship, wherein he ioyneth Peter as mate and partner with God, a felowship of power, aLeo Serm. 3. in anniuers. die assumption. suaeGod hath giuen to Peter a great and a wonderfull felowship of his power: and if he would hauehave any thing to be common vntounto other princes with him, he neuer gaue, but by him, whatsoeuer he gaue to others. Out of all controuersie these wordes do lift vp Peter vntounto the felowship of that glory of which God is so iealous, that he hath protested bEsai. 42.8.he will not giuegive it to any other: he hath giuen it to Christ, who is one with himselfe, God of God, light of light: if any man presume to ioyne a mortall creature, whomsoeuer, as companion vntounto Christ in it, he robbeth Christ of his honor of the onelyonly mediator betwéene God and man. And what doth he els, who saith (cIn the places before alleaged. as Leo doth) that S. Peters care shineth ouer Bishops in that their slaunderers are defaced; that Peters merit and autoritie doth strengthen the writings of his seruant against heretikes: that Peter doth not suffer their persons to be stained, who labour for the catholike faith: that the Popes decrees are made by the inspiration of God and S. Peter: that it must be imputed vntounto S. Peters workes and merits, if any thing be gotten of God by dayly prayers: that nothing passeth ouer vntounto the chiefest of the Church, no not vntounto any man, from God, but by S. Peter. Let eueryevery Christian hart, whome the zeale of God hath giuen any warmth vntounto, and his Spirit wisedome, be iudge betwéene you and vsus: whether that to yeald such power, such authoritie, such souerainetie and rule of the Church of Christ, to any Saint in heauen, be not an empairing of the maiestie, dominion, and soueraine authoritie of the king of Saints, the holy one of Israel. It gréeueth me to speake so much against Leo: whose learning I doe louelove, and reuerence his auncient yeares. But Dan. 7.9.the Auncient of dayes, is more auncient then he, & must be had in greater reuerence: who taught young Elihu Iob. 32.6.to reproue his auncients, f33.12.euen holy Iob amongst them, and to say of them, g32.21.I will not accept the person of any, neither will I giuegive titles vntounto man: for I may not giuegive titles: If I should doe it a litle, he that made me would take mee away. UUherefore, I doe fréely without curtesie of titles and accepting of persons, professe, that I mislike those hawtie spéeches in Leo: and I thinke that the mysterie of iniquitie so wrought through his ambitious aduancing Peter, that of the egges, which he cherished, two of the most venemous cokcatrices were bred, that euer poysoned the church of Christ: the one, the Popes supremacie, vsurping Princely power ouer the church and common-weale, with breach of faith to God and man: the other, the worshipping of Saintes, wherin that honour is giuen to creatures which ought to be giuen to the Creator onelyonly. One example may shew them both, euen Hildebrand (called Gregorie the seuenth in his Popedome) who depriuing Henrie ye Emperour of his Empire, and discharging his subiects of their othe of allegiance, pronounced sentence, with such an inuocation of Peter, as a true Christian would trēble to hauehave heard vsed to any, but to God. hPlatina de vlt. Pontif. in Gregorio Septimo.Incline thine eares ô blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles, & heare me 1S…ruum tuum:thy seruant, 2quem educasti abinfantia.whom thou hast brought vp from mine infancy, and 3ab iniquoram manibus vindicasti.hast preserued to this day from the handes of the vnrighteous, who hate and vexe me, 4pro mea in te fide.for my fayth in thee. 5Tu mihi testis es optimus.Thou canst beare me witnesse best, and the holy mother of Christ, and thy brother Paule partaker with thee of martyrdome, that I hauehave vndertaken the gouernmēt of the Papacie vnwillingly. Not that I thought it robbery to clime into thy See lawfully: but I had rather liue in pilgrimage thē occupie thy roome for fame and glorie only. I doe confesse, (and good cause why) that the charge of the Christiā people was committed, and the power of binding & loosing granted vntounto me, 6gratia tua no… meritis meis.not through my desertes, but by thy grace. 7Hac fiducia fretus.Trusting therefore on this assuraunce, for the honour and sauegard of 8tuae ecclesiae. Sigon. de regno Italiae lib. 9. which better agreeth with the rest, then (as Platina hath it) suae.thy holy church, in the name of God almightie, the father, the sonne, and the holy Ghost, I throwe downe King Henry, the sonne of Henry sometime Emperour (who hath laide handes too boldly and rashly 9in ecclesiam tuam.vponupon thy church) from his imperiall and kingly gouernment: and I absolue al Christians subiect to the Empire, frō that othe by the which they are wont to beare faith & alleagiance vntounto true Kings. Doe you sée to what iniquitie their pride, abusing Peters name, and claiming al by him, hath puffed them vp? To what vsurping ouer Emperours? To what dishonouring of the Almightie? But of this we shall hauehave fitter occasion to conferre, when we come to the question of the worship of Saintes. For the other, (to returne to the point which we hauehave in hand:) the name of head, in that sense, as it is made a conduit of the giftes of God, to powre them abroad into al the body, is onelyonly due and proper vntounto the Mediatour betwéene God & man, the Apostle of our profession, our Sauiour Iesus Christ. When the right of this title is called into question: eueryevery knée must bow in heauen, in earth, and vnderunder the earth, and yéeld it vntounto him whom God hath set at his right hand aboue all powers and principalities. Wherefore, I say not, if a mā, if Leo, (whom hope of profit might blind, taking himselfe for Peters heire,) but if an Angell from heauen do giuegive it vntounto Peter: shall I say i…. 1.8.with the Apostle, Let him be accursed? I will not take on me that sentence: but this I will say, the sinne is verie heinous▪ How much more heinous, that it is pretended, in shew, vntounto Peter: in déede, by Peters name conueied to the Pope. For as boldly as Leo applieth it to Peter: so boldly doth kIohan. de Tur…ecremat. in Su…m. de Ecclesi… lib. 2. cap. 12.a Cardinall apply it to the Pope. And lGul. Durand. in Rationali diuin…r. officior. lib 2. cap. 1.a Bishop, (venturing further then the Cardinall) not content to vouch that the Pope is Melchisedec, excelling the rest incōparably in priesthood; affirmeth farther of him, that he is head of all Bishops, from whom they do grow as members grow from the head, and of whose fulnesse they do all receiue. Of Christ it is written, that mIoh. 1.16.of his fulnesse we do all receiue: that he is nHeb. 6.20.a Priest for euer after the order of Melchisedec: that he is oEphe, 4.16.the head of whom al the bodie being coupled and knit togither by euerie ioint giuen to furnish it, through the effectuall power, in the measure of euerie part, receiueth encrease of the bodie. But to giuegive these priuiledges vntounto the Pope, that he is Melchisedec, the head of al Bishops, and of his fulnesse they doe all receiue: O Lord, in how miserable state was the Church, when this did go for catholike doctrine? Was not the prophecie then fulfilled, of p2. Thess. 2.4.the man who should sit in the Temple of God, as God?
Hart.
I maruell what you meane to take vsus vp so sharply, as for a heinous matter, that we call the Pope, head of the church: whereas you giuegive that title your selues to the Quéene whom it may lesse agrée to. So one that preached to vsus h…re not long agoe in the Tower-chappell, did make a long talke to proue that Christ onelyonly is head of the church, and charged vsus with blasphemy, for saying that the Pope is head: & yet him selfe praying for the Quéenes maiesty did name her supreme head of the church of England: wherin we smiled at his folly. For if it be no blasphemy to call the Quéene head: why should it bée blasphemy to call the Pope head?
Rainoldes.
We giuegive vntounto her Highnes ye title, not of head, but of qThe othe of the … li. 5. c. 5.Supreme gouernour: and that vponupon how iust grounde of Gods word, and high commission from the highest, it shall in *Chap. 10. Diuis. 1.due place be shewed if you will. As for the Preacher, whom you mention: I had rather you would deale with me by publike monuments and writings of our church, as I doe with you, then by reports of priuate spéeches: for perhaps you fansied more then he said: perhaps he said so much that you were glad to smile it out with that fansie. But if your report of his Sermon be true, it is likely that he gaue the name of head to the Quéene in the same meaning that we doe the title of supreme gouernour, which I will proue to be godly: and he denied the Pope to be head in an other meaning, in which that name belongeth vntounto Christ alone, condemning them of blasphemy who giuegive it him so. And they, who did smile hereat, as at folly, because they were Papists, might, if they were Painims, smile at the scriptures too: which doe giuegive the title of Exod. 22.28. Ioh. 10.35.Gods vntounto gouernors, and yet condemne them who hauehave sExod. 20.3. Deut. 13 2.other Gods beside the Lord. For if it be, no blasphemy to call the Magistrates Gods: why should it bée blasphemy to call tAct. 14.11.Mercurius and Iupiter Gods? Is not this your reason? But our doctrine as it is holy and true, so it is plaine: if men will rather learne it humbly, as Christians, then laugh at it as Lucians, or, as Iulians, reuolt from it. For wée teach uApologia ecclesiae Angl. Confess. Helu…. cap. 17.that Christ is the head of the church, as hee doth quicken it with his spirite, as he is the light, the health, the life of it: and is present alwayes to fill it with his blessinges, and with his grace to gouerne it. In the which respects, because xEphes. 1.22. & 4.15. & 5.23. Coloss. 1.18. & 2.19. and so the Church, his bodie.the Scripture giueth the name of head to Christ alone, by an excellency: thereof we so conclude, that he is the onelyonly head of the church. For otherwise, we know, that (in an other kinde and degrée of resemblance) they may be called heads, who hauehave any preeminence of place or gouernment ouer others. As in the Hebrue text we reade yNehem. 11.16.the heads of the Leuites, for the chéefe of them: and, z2. Chr. 31.10. foreignthe priest the head, that is to say, the chiefe Priest. After the which sort, I will not contend, if you entitle Bishops heads of the churches, as aIn apolog. 2.Athanasius doth: and bIn Registr. li. 4. epist, 38.Gregorie, when he had named our Sauiour Christ the head of the vniuersall church, hée calleth Christes ministers as it were heads: Paul, Andrew, Iohn, heads of particular flocks, yet members of the church, all vnderunder one head.
Hart.
You graunt in effect, as much as I require. For, if either Bishoppe or Cardinall hauehave giuen that vntounto the Pope, which is due to Christ, as he is head properlie: wée maintaine them not. UUe say that as pastors, all who hauehave the charge to gouerne the church, are heads after a sort, that is improperly, as I termed it: so the Pope, who is the chiefest of them all is the supreme head. And in this sense you must take vsus, when we do entitle Stapleton. in dedicat. prin cipiorum fid. doctrin. Gregor. de…imo tertio, Pon. Opt. Max.the Bishop of Rome the supreme head of the church.
Rainoldes.
I will take you so. Howbeit, for as much as the name of head hath sundrie significations in this kind of spéeches as the scripture sheweth, 1. Cor. 11.3.God is the head of Christ, Christ is the head of man, man is the head of the woman; Esay 7.8.the head of Syria, Damascus; the head of Damascus, Retzin; the king, 1. Sam. 15.17.the head of the tribes of Israel; and Exod. 6.13.the heads of housholdes, the eldest; and 1. Kin. 21.9.the head of the people, the formost; and Esay 2.2.the head of the mountaines, the highest; and Exod. 30.23.the head of the spices, the chiefest; &, in offenders Num. 25.4.the heads, the principall; and amongst Dauids captaines, 2. Sam. 23. ver. …. & 13. & 18.the heads, the most excellent, some of the which import a preeminence of other things, not of power, and they that do of power, some import a greater power, some a lesser: I would vnderstand particularlie what power you giuegive vntounto the Pope by calling him supreme head, least afterward we vary about the meaning of it.
Hart.
The power, which we meane to him by this title, is *Staple… princip. doct. lib. 6. in praefat. And herin the Rhe…ish annotations on the new Testament (Mat. 16.…9▪) folow D. …apleton: as also in the handling of Scriptures and Fathers for this whole matter of the Popes supremacie commonlie they ….that the gouernement of the whole church of Christ throughout the world doth depend of him: in him doth lye the power of iudging and determining all causes of faith; of ruling councels, as President, and ratifying their decrées; of ordering and confirming Bishops and pastors; of deciding causes brought him by appeales from all the coastes of the earth; of reconciling any that are excommunicate; of excommunicating, suspending, or inflicting other censures and penalties on any that offend, yea on Princes and nations; finallie, of all things of the like sort for gouerning of the church, euen what soeuer toucheth either preaching of doctrine, or practising of discipline in the church of Christ.
Rainoldes.
And all this you meane by the Popes supremacie. A power, verie great in weight, and large in compasse, for one man to wéeld: yea, for one Apostle, much more for one Bishop. Bishop of Rome is he, or Bishop of the whole world? You said that you call him a head improperlie. I wéene you giuegive this power improperlie to him also. For out of all doubt you can neuer proue that it belongeth to him properlie.