The Overthrow of Stage Plays, Rejoinder (2 of 4)

The Overthrow of Stage Plays · Rejoinder (2 of 4)

p. 66True it is therfore that by Gothofredes iudgement the Praetor accounted all stage-players infamous; and they, who tooke the Praetor otherwise, mistooke him. Whereof although I did not alleage Gothofredus for the chiefest proofe, but principally cited him to satisfie you, a lawier by a lawier, and prooved it by the best interpreter of the lawe, the practise and consent of the ancient Romans, which he doeth ground on also: yet you having answered him (you say) already as it were by the way, doe adde that by him the rest of my autorities and all mine examples also may receve their true, though short aunswer. The autorities then of Tullie, of Nepos, of Laberius, of Liuie, of Iuvenal, of Suetonius, of Tacitus, of Dio, and of S. Austin; the examples of Nero, Lentulus, and the rest, whom not such autours onelyonly but the people of Rome too did esteeme infamous for their stage-playing, were it freelie, or for gaine; may bee aunswered by your answere to Gothofredus. And how? For hee (you say) glozeth against a manifest lawe without giuing any reason of his so doeing. Why? Doeth not he giuegive a reason in these wordes, Omnes enim scenici probrosi, & tribu moveri soliti, prooved by S. ccDe ciuit. Dei lib. 2. cap. 11Austin and ddLib. 7.Livie? But S. Austin and Livie could never dreame of your text, you say; and so their autorities serve not to p. 67interpret it. As who say Gothofredus brought them to interpret your text, that is, Ulpian: not rather to interpret the Praetors edict, & to correct your text thereby. For thus doth he reason in effect: Ulpian expounding the Praetors edict, saith that, they onelyonly, who play vponupon the stage for gaine sake, are infamous: but the Praetor meant that they, who play without gaine, are infamous also, even generally all stage-players; as it is apparant by S. Austin and Livie: therefore Ulpian misseth in expounding the Praetors edict. And, I trust, an older writer may be cited to correct a younger, of whom he could not dreame: or else your selfe doe evill to cite Ulpian against me, of whom hee could not dreame you wote well. Though S. Austin also might hauehave dreamed of Vlpian, 77Vlpian lived about two hundred yeares before S. Aust. Lamprid. Alexandro Sever. Euseb. Chro.for ought that I know. But you saye farder that S. Austin and Livie are to bee vnderstoode against Histriones: and so their autorities serve not to this of your text. Wherein I must confesse I vnderstand not what you meane. For I can not imagin you should bee so absurd as to say that they speake not against players on stage, because they speake against Histriones. OnelyOnly as eeDiog. La…. in Socr.Socrates; beeing asked what hee thought of a certaine booke of Heraclitus, aunswered, Those things which I vnderstood in it are excellent, and so, I thinke, are those to which I vnderstood not: semblably may I say touching these branches and partes of your reply, that what I vnderstand therein maketh nothing against the point that I did conclude by Gothofredus; no more, I thinke, doeth that which I vnderstand not. Nay, I say too litle when I say I thinke. For seeing histriones signifieth stage-players; & stage-players are such as come 88Qui artis ludicrae pronuntiandive causa in scenam prodierit.vponupon the stage to play or pronounce, whom the 99Praetoris verba dicunt. l. 1. Ait Praetor. l. 2 D. de his qui not. infam.Praetor speaketh of: I know, that what soeuer your meaning be therein, it can hauehave no force to ouerthrow that wich I concluded by Gothofredus. So this with the former distinctionlesse distinction of a sense he meant not, being all the answer that you make to him: the rest of my authorities and examples all are so farre from beeing answered by him, that your answerlesse answer doth rather leaue both him and them as vnanswerable. But you go forward, and, to ouerthrow them both an other way, you deny that the Romans euer iudged Omnes scenicos infames. p. 68And why? Because playes (say you) were sometime instituted, as in a common plague, ad placandos Deos, and were prouided by great officers of the common treasure: and so they are referred ad religionem & deuotionem. Sometime they were sett out at the priuat cost of them that sued to the people for great offices, or generally for the honor and solace of the citie: and so they are referred to magnificence. For magnificentia is a goodly vertue, & versatur circa sumptus amplos, non turpes aut infames, because it is a vertue, but circa quaecunque in Rempublicam honestae laudis studio conferuntur: among the which ffEthicor. lib. 4. cap. 5.Aristotle reckeneth Ludos splendidè facere. Neither is it to be thought that Aesopus & Roscius, being both men of that fame, favour, wealth, and entire familiarity with the best and wisest in their times, were reputed as infamous persons. What should I speake of so many Circi, Theatra, Amphitheatra, builded by the greatest and bravest Romās with so huge charge & sumptuousnes? Which though they were once vponupon fowle abuses, or some other occasion, as you write, overthrowne by the Romans themselues: yet even those playes for which they were abolished were ex eo genere of whom they might hauehave said (as ggHistor. lib. 1Tacitus doeth of Astrologers) quod in civitate nostra, & vetabitur semper, & retinebitur. Howsoever; I can not thinke that either they would hauehave suffered such things to bee done at all, if they had iudged them evill: or to be performed by infamous persons, being matters of that state and magnificence, and, as they thought, of that devotion and necessitie. Thus farre your owne wordes. In which, to shew that you doe not deny without cause that the Romans ever iudged all stage-players to be infamous, you make two proofes thereof: one, that Aesopus & Roscius were not reputed as infamous persons; an other, that the Romans would not hauehave suffered such things to be perfourmed by infamous persons, being matters of great state & magnificence, and; as they thought, of great devotion and necessitie. Such proposition, such proofes. The proposition savouring of a strange boldnes (to vse no harder terme) that you, who scarse are fourtie yeares old, if yet fourtie, in a questiō of fact, of a thing done fifteene, sixteene, or seuenteene hundred yeares ago, which a number of witnesses, that liued the same time, men of good p. 69credit, affirme to hauehave bene doon, should presume to saye, I deny that it was done. For Tullie reporteth that the Romans counting all kindes of stage-playes shamefull and dishonest, did iudge accordingly of the players. Nepos, Laberius, Livie, Iuvenall, Tacitus, the rest, whom I cited, both of the learned sort, and of the common people, doe testifie the same. Neither can you denie but their wordes alleadged by me, doe clearlie argue that they iudged thus of free players also, not onelyonly of players for gaine. Yet you harden your face to say against them all: I denie that the Romans ever iudged all stage-players to bee infamous. Yea, for proofe hereof you produce two reasons, which imply that they thought no stageplayers infamous, no not players for gaine: and so you avouch an evident vntrueth against your owne confession, your owne conscience. For Roscius and Aesopus played for gaine: as hhNatur. hist. lib. 7. cap. 39 & lib. 10. cap. 51.Plinie and iiSaturn. lib. 3. cap. 14.Macrobius shew. Their wealth, which you mētion, was gottē by that trade. Now your text of kkD. de his qui not infam. l. 2. §. ait Praetor.Ulpian with Pegasus and Nerva, sayeth that all who play for gaine, are infamous; as you confessed before; adding that you sawe no cause to mislike it, lesse durst dispute against it. Wherefore in saying that Aesopus and Roscius were not reputed as infamous persons, your owne mouth and heart cōdemne you of gain saying an vndoubted trueth. Much more when you inferre the same of other stage-players, euen of the rascalls, the most vile among them, in the reason following. For although the fame, the favour, the wealth of Roscius and Aesopus, should no more hauehave mooved you to washe away all staine from their credit, then from llLactant. diuin. instit lib. 1. cap. 20.Flora and mmAthenaeus dignolophist. lib. 13.Phryne, who were whoores of great fame, favour, wealth: yet their familiaritie with the best and wisest might probably perswade you, that they were not reputed as infamous persons. Howbeit, had you weighed, how 11Tullie.the best and wisest so wel acquainted with them, had shewed in 22Roscius.one of thē, that nnOrat. pro Q. Roscio comaed.other things brought him to such estimation, his ooOrat. pro P. Quintio.stage-playing was some staine vntounto him: you should hauehave perceyued that in this respect their credit might bee tainted, notwithstanding the acquaintance, whereto, by meanes of other partes approoved in them, they grew in processe of time with the best and wisest. But your next p. 70reason saith as much for the vilest and most beastlie stageplayers, as for Aesopus and Roscius. For in certaine playes, called 33Ludi Florales Ovid. Fastor. libro 5. Valer. Max. lib 2 cap. 10the playes of Flora, the 44Mimae, as they are termed by Vale rius Maxim.; turba meretricia, by Oui. meretrices, quae mimor…m funguntur officio, by Lactantius. lib. 1 cap. 20players were not men, but wemen, and those lewde ones, professed whoores and strumpers: which, besides all wanton filthines of words, did shew them selues naked also to the people, and vsed most shamefull motions and gestures. These playes were instituted (to vse your own words) ad placandos Deos, 55Cic in ver. li. 5. Plin. nat. hist. lib. 18. cap. 29.that Flora, as the Goddesse of flowers, might bee entreated not to hurt the corne, nor any thing that bloweth and blossemeth: and so they are referred ad religionem & devotionem. The 66Aediles. Cic. de offic. lib. 2 Mamerco, ho mini ditissimo, praetermissio aedilitatis consulatus repulsam attulit.officers that had the charge to set them out, did sett them out at their private cost, to gett the peoples favour for the obtaining of greater offices: and so they are referred to magnificence. The 77Theatra Scauri, Curionis, Pompeii. Pli. nat. hist. lib. 36. cap. 15. Plutareh. vit. Pomp. tertullian. de spect. cap. 10.stages and theaters, wherein men behold them, were builded by the greatest and bravest Romans with huge charge and sumptuousnes: Wherefore sith the Romans would not hauehave suffered such things to bee perfourmed by infamous persons, being matters of great state and magnificence, and, as they thought, of great devotion and necessitie: it foloweth, by your reason, that they did not iudge professed whoores and strumpets to be infamous persons. Now, if this consequent touching whoores bee false, as your ppD. de cōdict. ob turp. vel injust. caus. l. 4. §. Sed quid D. de ritu▪ nupt. l. 41.law sheweth it is: then is the consequution of your reason faulty. Which your self may see by the other branch thereof, avouched ioyntlie, to weet, that the Romans would not hauehave suffered such things to be done at all, if they had iudged them evill: and by him, whose sentence, that it is a vertue 88Ludos splendidè facere.to sett out playes bravelie, you adde for the gracing and countenancing of your reason, I meane, even by Aristotle. For he, in reckening it among magnificent actions 99foreignif any where men thinke they ought to sett out playes bravelie (so he qualifieth his sentēce with a circūstance of moment omitted by you in alleaging it,) respecteth the opinions and customes of the Grecians: who thought it an honorable thing to be at charges with furnishing and decking companies of Musicians, of Dansers, of Players, in their solemne feastes, & vsuall processions celebrated to their Gods. As among the Athenians, for example sake, qqOrat. in Midiam.Demosthenes, when no man of p. 71his tribe was willing to beare the charge thereof, did promise of his owne accorde that he 11foreignwould beare it, and therevppon provided golden crownes and costlie garments for a companie 22Ev foreignin the feast of Bacchus. This feast rrHerodot. Euterpe. foreign. Athenaeus dipnos. lib. 14 foreign & foreign, Cle▪ Alexandr. ad hort. ad gent. Arnob. advers. gent. lib. 5.had as filthie matters represented, though by an other sexe, in the shewes & playes belonging thervnto, as that of Flora had. Yet, such was the brutish superstition of Heathens, that ssPoliticor. lib. 7. cap. ult.Aristotle him selfe, one of the best among them, banishing all vnseemely speeches and spectacles out of his commō wealth, 33foreign.excepteth such as these, done in the honour of their Gods, according to their lawe, ttAristot. de poëtica.which 44foreign.allowed that beastlinesse in many cities then. In like sort the Romans, albeit they iudged the things to be evil which the players did in the feast of Flora, so euill that vvValer. Max. lib. 2. cap 10 Seneca epist. 98.the refuse & dregges of the people durst not for shame desire to hauehave the fight there of while Cato was present: yet did they allow; and by publike order provide for the dooing of them, 55Quo ve malo mentem concussa? timore Deorū. Horat. satyr. lib. 2. sat 3.because they thought them pleasant to their divelish Goddesse, whose wrathfull plagues they feared, if they should omitt them. And thus, for the rest of their playes also, whether made to pacifie 66Ludi Megalenses. Liui. lib. 29. & 34. Aug de ciu. Dei lib. 2. cap. 4.the mother of their Gods, or 77Ludi Romani, in honorem Iovis, Iunonis, & Minervae: ludi Apollinares, &c. Cic. in Verr. li. 5. Livi. li. 27. …1. &c.any of her childrē, they thought it a necessarie devotion to sett them out, a statelie magnificence to sett them out bravelie; yet did they repute the players thereof infamous, as Tullie, Livie, the Praetor, Vlpian, all consent; though withall discrediting thereby both Gods and playes, as xxDe civ. Dei. lib. 2. cap. 13.Austin and yyDe spectaculis, cap. 22.Tertullian note. How much the more strange doeth your boldnes seeme, not onelie to pronounce that the Romans would not have suffered such things to be performed by infamous persons; but to say, as bringing a proofe thereof too, that you can not thinke it, I can not thinke that they would hauehave suffered it. And can you thinke that this is a seemely thing, or tolerable, in a matter of fact, prooved by the vniforme consent of so many and so worthy witnesses, for you to contradict it with these kindes of speeches: I deny that the Romans ever iudged all stage players to be infamous; It is not to be thought that they deemed Aesopus and Roscius infamous; I can not think p. 72that they would hauehave suffered their playes to be performed by men infamous? Can you thinke without blushing, how the ancient Fathers conclude by the confession of the Romans themselues, 88Tertullian Quanta confessio est malae rei, quarū actores cùm acceptissimi sint, sine nota non sunt.one, that playes are evill, because the Praetor noted the players with infamie; an 99S. Augustin. Theatricae illius turpitudinis qua frōte notatur actor, si adoratur exactor? Proponūt Grae ci; Si D… tales colendi sunt, profectò etiā tales homines honorandi sunt. Assumunt Ro mani: Sed nullo modo tales homines honorādi sunt. Concludunt Christiani; Nullo igitur modo Dii tales colendi sunt.other, that such Gods should not bee worshipped, because such men were counted infamous who perfourmed the playes that they required: and you, of the cōtrarie, denie that such men were coūted infamous by the Romans, or noted by the Praetor; a thing, that no Heathen, amongest all their adversaries (whom I hauehave ever read of) durst? Can you thinke your students of Christ-church, and others, with whom you hauehave communicated this reply of yours, to be so weak eyesighted, that they perceiue not, that your selfe, in citing & applying Tacitus his wordes touching Astrologers to the point in question, doe confute your selfe, as if God had bereft you almost of common sense, when you went about it? For if you thinke that the Romans would retaine Astrologers alwayes in their citie, yet forbid them alwayes: can you not think that they would hauehave suffered such things to bee done at all, if they had iudged thē evill? And if you thinke playes to be of that kinde, of which they might hauehave saide as Tacitus doth of Astrologers: can you thinke that they who zzTacit. annal. li. 2 Vlpian. li. 7. de offic. Procon. coll. leg. Mos. & Roman. C de malef. & mathem. li. 5.iudged Astrologers worthie of greater punishment, would hauehave iudged players worthie a note of infamie? I would to God you could thinke, & think vpō your bedde (as the aaPsal. 4. ver. 4Ps 4:4Prophet exhorteth) of your offense herein, your bbver. 2.loving of vanitie, your seeking of lyes. Then would you bee still, and quietlie acknowledge that by Tullie, Nepos, Laberius, Livie, Iuvenal, and other auncient Romans, stage-players were taken to bee infamous persons, euen all, whether they played freelie, or for gaine: and therefore not onelyonly the hirelinges, but the free too, are comprised and noted in the Praetors wordes. Then would you rather observe in the reading of your ccAd paragr. Ait Praetor. lib 2. D. de his qui not. infam.Glossa communis, that though certaine lawiers tooke the Praetor otherwise, yet certaine tooke him so as well as Gothofredus. Then would you devise more and better reasons for the generall doctrine out of ddC. de spect. & scenicis.Iustinians Code, and eeLib 15. cod. Theod. tit. 7.Theodosius both, then now for the favourable part of your distinctō you did out p. 73of Iustinianus; omitting and neglecting that, in ffDe spectac. & sceni. li. 4.the same title, whence that seelie single reason was inforced, stage-players are termed 11Vilem histrionem.vile, 22Inhonestas personas.vnhonest persons, without all distinction.

It may bee that your cōscience felt some pricke hereof; or at least your knowledge informed you that this would not holde water. Else, why adioyne you a new point of defense, that the actors of your playes are no stage-players? Whereas ggEpilo. Vlys. red respon. ad Mom.before your onelyonly answere to this point was, that you played freely: nor needed there more in your desire to bee short (which you pretend often) if you thought it certaine the lawe comprised not free players. But what soeuer you thought, when you resolved of having two stringes vntounto your bowe: this newe string is worse a great deale then the old was; the hempe is naught whereof you made it. For whereas you denie; that you, who come on the stage once in a yeare, or two, in seauen, or in tenne, or sometime twentie yeares, are to be termed 33Scenici, o… histriones.stage-players; as he is not a wrastler that sometime to proove his strength, trieth for a fall or two; nor he a fenser, that sometime taketh vp the cudgells to play a venny: First make these similitudes perfitt with adding 44In arenam. D. de postulando li. 1. §. removet. D. de accusationib. li. 4.that which answereth to 55In scenam.the stage, that they bee not similia dissimilia, (as hhDe finib. l. 4Tullie calleth them,) and then hee is a 66Athleta C. deathle. l. ….wrastler who to proove his strength on that stage, as it were, doeth trie for a fall or two; and a 77Gladiator. Cic. Philipp. 7. Ovid. Trist li. 2. Quintil. declamat. 9.Fenser likewise, who commeth once thither, though he neuer come againe; and so are they stage-players, who play vponupon the stage once in a yeare or two. Next, the law doeth cutt off all strife about the name, by noting him with infamie, 88Qui in scenam prodierit.who commeth on the stage to play, or pronounce. So that when you acknowledge that yours come on the stage to this intent and ende, you shewe that both you wrangle and trifle in denying they are to be termed stage-players. As for that you adde, that you doe differ from them, whom I mentioned, in the maner of your playing, in the ende, effectes, & other circumstances, as in the examination of mine exaples shall appeare; the which as I hauehave alleaged to illustrate mine authorities, as being the men whom they properly speak against; so if you shew that you are not to be likened to them, neyther mine authorities, nor mine examples shall touch you: the drift p. 74of your speech is to proove, even for the thing too, that you are cleare from that which the lawe disgraceth; but with what sinewes of arguments you doe it, I will (by a more perfitt similitude thē yours were) endevour to make plaine vntounto you: iiIul. Capitoli. … Maximi…s duobus.Maximinus, a savage Emperour, a man of a huge, tall, and strong body, tooke a most sottish and proude conceit thereof that he could not be killed. Wherevpon a certaine man said in his presence; He that can not be killed by one, is killed by many: The Elephant is great; yet is he killed: The Lion is strong; yet is hee killed: The Tyger is swift; yet is he killed: Beware of many ioyned, if single ones you feare not.

The autour of this speech meant to reason thus, by way of a syllogisme: Every living creature may be killed: Maximinus the Emperour is a living creature: Therefore hee may bee killed. And least Maximinus through his proud conceit should obiect against it, that every living creature, who could be overmatched by one, might be killed; but it was impossible for any one to match him: the autour saide, that such as could not be killed by one, might by many; adding for proof thereof that Elephants, Lions, Tigers, bee they never so great, strong, and swift, are killed. Here suppose that he had withall, in hope of better perswading Maximinus, tolde him that kkDe nat. Deor. lib. 3.Tullie saith all living creatures may bee killed: which to bee true in all absolutely and simply, yea even such as no one can lightly overmatch, llDe offic. li. 2Tullie sheweth farder; and mmDe Venat.Xenophon, nnLib. 5.Polybius, ooLib. 21. & 24Livie, ppNat. hist. lib. 8. cap. 6. 7. 16. & 17.Plinie, qqConjugalib. praecep. & vita Pompeii.Plutarch, doe witnesse by sundry stories of those beasts. Now, if Maximinus had given ea…e thereto, and answered that him selfe did differ from those beasts in the maner of his strength, in the end, effectes, and other circumstances, as it should appeare in examination of the examples; which as the man had cited to illustrate his autorities, as being the creatures whom they properly speake of, so if Maximinus had shewed that he was not to be likened to thē neither the autorities, nor the examples should touch him; what should the felow hauehave done, who did make that argument? Should hee hauehave denyed that Maximinus differed from Elephants, Lions, Tigers, in the maner of his strength, and the rest of your circumstances? p. 75How could he? when he might hauehave bene controlled straight by Maximinus saying: They hauehave no man to their subiects: I rule the whole world; they want helpes to shield them from wounds; I weare armour: they can holde no swordes, or other weapons; I can: they are of low stature; I am eleven foote high. Should he hauehave graunted that because it appeareth by those and the like differences, that Maximinus was not such a living creature as those beasts were, therefore he was no living creature: nether could hee be touched either by the examples or by the autorities? That had bene to bewray either feare, or ignorance, and to betray the truth: sith the autorities reached to the thing in generall; and so the examples brought to illustrate them did touch Maximinus also by consequent. Then belike, albeit the differences, that he might alleage against the autours reason had bene true all, yet had they all bin idle; as neither disprooving the major, nor the minor, whereof the conclusion doeth necessarily follow. This is the condition and state of your differences, M^r. D. Gager; they are not all true, and they are all idle. They are not all true. Nay, is there any of them not vntrue in part? Doutlesse not the first: wherein you affirme that you differ from them altogether in furniture, & maner of setting out playes: they did it with excessiue charge: you thriftily, warily, and almost beggerly. For, I hope, as Irus came beggerly in with you; so 99Horace shew eth that they ought; de ar▪ te poetica: & that they had wherew^t to doe it; Epist. 7. lib. 1 Vilia vendē tem tunicato scruta popello.they would hauehave clothed him in ragges too, and could: and such clokes as they vsed to borow for brave wooers, cost 11Chlamydes Lucullus, vt aiunt, Si posset centum scenae praebere rogatus, Qui possum tot? ait; tamē & quaeram, & quot habebo Mittam. post paulo scribit scribit sibi millia quinque esse domi chlamydum: partem, vel tolleret omnes. Horat. epistolar. li. 1 ep. 6.them no more the fetching, then yours out of the revils: and excesse in charges is measured by abilitie, as rrEthicor. lib. 4. ca. 1. aut 2.Aristotle sheweth; the ssMark 12. 4….Mark 12:4widow giving two mites, gaue more then all the rest: and you in spending pence might be more excessiue then they in spending poundes. Not the second difference, touching the maner of action; whereof you say that they acted their playes in an other sort then you doe, or can or well know how: but so exquisitly and carefully, that you may seeme compared with them either for skill, or diligence, rather Recitare, which I doe not dislike, then Agere. For other sort of playing you fansie without ground, saying you know not what of thinges perfourmed you know not how: I weene you know not, neither p. 76why they who played vnwilling and had small list to learne it; should bee more skilfull and diligent then yours: sure if yours should seeme rather recitare, which I mislike not, then agere; none of yours played ttin Rivalib.drunken, nor vvVlyss red.daunsed, nor 22Scabellū jacit Antinous Act 2.Acts 2hurled footestooles, nor xxRiv. Vlyss. red. & Hippolyt.put on wemens raiment. Not the third difference, which you set in this, that they came on the stage of a lewde, vast, dssolute, wicked, impudent, prodigall, monstrous humour; you contrarywise doe it to sundry good intents, as namely (for example) to conforme your youth to convenient action. For neither came they all with such a disposition; witnesse is Laberius, witnesses are others alleaged out of Dio; so that you speake herein as if Maximinus had said that those beasts, which the felow mentioned, are of low stature, a thing vntrue in yyOppian. de venat. lib 2 Aeliā. de hist. anim. l. 12. c. 8 Lud. Verto man navigat lib. 4 cap. 10. Petr. Gillius elephanti descript cap 6.Ele phants: noris it more true that you frame your youth to convenient action, framing some of them to the action of wooers, some of knaves, some of parasites, some of clownes, some of drunkards, some of bragging souldiers, or of the like to these, then that zzIul. Capitol. in Maximin. duob. Erat magnitudine tanta, ut octo pedes digito videretur egressus.Maximinus was eleven foote high. Not the fourth difference, wherein (to make a farder profit of the circumstance that before you vrged against the name of stage-players) you say that they frequented the stage; you doe it seldom, sometime not in seven, ten or twenty yeares. For how doe you proove that they whom Iuvenal, Tacitus, Dio note, frequented it more then some of yours hauehave? and Laberius did it but once in 33Ego bis tricenis annis actis sine nota, Eques Ro manus è lare e gressus meo Domum revertar mimus. Macro. Saturn. lib. 2 cap. 7.three score years, who yet both called himself a stage-player for that doeing, and counted it a staine vntounto him. The fifth offendeth lesse, affirming that they did it on the publike theater not of the citie onelyonly, but of the whole world: you in a privat house, and to a few, men of vnderstanding. Yet looke by what reason you name the Roman theater, the theater of the whole worlde, your should be the theater of England, France, and Ireland, if not of whole Europe: and why say you that you did it to men of vnderstanding? as if in Rome wemen also had bene present who might behold the lusty motions of the players, and vnderstand not what they spake; 44At siqua forsan iuueni vellicet togā, Quid que hic agatur scire discupiat nimis, &c. And Rogare veniam à foemi nis non est opus. Prolog. & epilog. in Hippolytumnone such on your stage. In the sixth you lavish more then in the fourth, saying that they were men growne, one of them three score yeares olde, p. 77Knights, of noble houses, Patricii, & one of them Emperour of the world: in you being young men, boyes, poore Scholers, all these things are quite contrary. For, touching age, among 55Non nobilitas cuiquam, non aetas, aut acti honores impedimento, quo minus Graeci Latiniue histrionis artem exercerent. Tacit. annal. lib. 14.them who were compelled by Nero to become stage-players, the stories, which I cited, doe record (quite contrary to your quite contrary) that there were not onelyonly 66foreign.men growne, and 77foreignolde, but young too; and some of your players came on the stage as olde as aaSueton. Neron. cap. 8. & 11. Tacit. annal. lib. 13 & 14.Nero, your great Emperour: touching wealth, the beggerie of those needy squiers, whom out of Iuvenal and Tacitus I specified, hath small contrarietie vntounto poore scholers state: touching birth, and gentrie, you forgott your self, when, in saying elswhere, The gentleman that played Ulysses, and setting 8 foreign. Dio Neron▪ in Xiphilin. epit.bbF. S. Actor. Vlyssis ego.his verses before your booke, you shewed that your players are not quite contrarie to Patricii; vnlesse you thinke so meanlie of his name, and stocke, that a 99Fumosos equitum cum dictatore magistros-Iuvenal. satyr. 8.smokie Lentulus, or Fabius, or Mamercus, doeth passe it in nobilitie; yea, though it hauehave learning and Scholership ioyned with it; neither onelyonly passe it, but passe it so farre, that not content to make it differ in degree, you make it quite contrarie, as if it were of the basest of the rascalitie. And seeing these things, specially this last point, wherein you must beare with me, if farthermore being taught by ccEpistolar. ad familiar. lib. 3. epi. 7.Tullie, that Lentulitas, what shall I terme it? the Lentulusnes of noble parentage is 11Etiam ne tu has in eptias, vllam App…etatem, aut Lentulitatem valere apud me plus, quā ornamenta virtutis existimas?nothing in comparison of vertue; nay, being taught by him, whom Tullies ddProu. 20. 27. Ioh. 1. 9.Prov 20:27John 1:9light came from, even by the eeIam. 1. 17.Jas 1:17Father of lightes, that ffAct. 17. 11.Acts 17:11they are most noble who most excell in godlines and graces of the spirit, I account all Christian Scholers and Studentes, as good and noble gentlemen, as the Heathen Lentuli; but seeing these differences doe square so frō the trueth: the rest, which are the same, enlarged and applyed to particular comparisons of certaine of your players with certaine of theirs, must needs be enroled in the same predicament. Howbeit you doe vtter them in such a ggQuintilian. lib. 9. cap. 2. Interrogamꝰ, quod negari non possit.sort, as if you did not onelyonly meane to hauehave it though, that there is lesse resemblance, and therfore greater difference betwene their players & yours, whom I notwithstanding had compared as like: but also that I should be forced to acknowledge it by mine own confession, and graunt that I was wonderfully overseene therein. For you p. 78aske of me (to sett downe your owne wordes:) Who ever would resemble our Melantho with your Laureolus? the one represented by an ingenuous boy, and for her lewdnes imagined to bee hanged within: the other acted by Lentulus, a man nobly descended, expressing perhaps openly on the stage the same punishment. What likenes is there betwene our young men, putting on the persons of Antinous, and the rest of Penelopes wooers: and betwene gentlemen of the noble race of Fabius, in their owne persons, not so much counterfeiting others, as expressing their own scurrilities? Such as our Antinous and the rest of the wooers can not be iustly charged with: no not our Irus, or Vlysses. Againe, what resemblance is there betweene our Hippodamia onelyonly singing, Eurimachus onelyonly saying, Phemius both singing and saying, all three represented by such as they were: and betwene Nero, playing mens, wemens, and minstrels parts vponupon the stage in Rome? Beholde A marvelous case, that I should compare and resemble players together so absurdly, as no man would ever hauehave done besides me: and that I should affirme them to bee like one an other, betwene whom there is no likenes, no resemblance, as your sharpe vrging doeth emply. But perhaps your stomake is the more egre against my comparisons, because of our dissension about the stage and playes. The partie, that spake in the presence of Maximinus, spake 22In theatro.vponupon the stage, and was a 33Scurra mimus. Iul. Capitolin. In whom it is printed, minus: by error, for mimus, as I take it.player himselfe: it may be you would hauehave vsed him more gentlie. For else, had you bene there, and loved Maximinus you might (which I marvell if you thinke not absurd) hauehave aunswered thus in his behalfe. Who ever would resemble Maximinus to an Elephant? the one, a man well featured, and feeding very daintily within doores in his palace: the other a beast, a hhPlin. nat. hist. lib. 8. cap. 10. & li. 11. cap. 39.thicke skinne, having a 44So is his proboscis termed by Aristotle. de hist. ani lib. 2. cap. 1. and by Oppian, de venat. lib. 2.nose an 55Or two yardes, some of them, with the advantage. Petr. Gillius eleph. descript. cap. 5. & 6.ell long, and iiIob. 40. 15.Job 40:15eating grasse perhaps without doores on the mountaines. What likenes is there betwene him, our Emperour, a most gratious personage, and of sweete conditions: and betweene a Tigre, a kkVirg. Geor. lib. 2. Ouid. epist. 10.cruell savage beast, wearing llPlini. natur. hist. lib. 8. cap. 17. Oppian. de venat. li. 1. & 3.heare of sundry coolours, speckled, spotty? Such as our Emperour hath none vponupon his body: no, nor the like pawes, or 66foreign. Oppian. lib. 3. de venat.taile. Againe what resemblance is there betweene him, excelling in all three things, greatnes, strength, and swiftnes: & betwene an Elephant, p. 79great and strong onelyonly; a Tigre, strong and swift; a Lion having litle to trust to, beside strength? Thinke you that you had spoken with any graine of salt, M^r. D. Gager, if you had spoken thus? Though I hauehave disadvantaged my self in this similitude: because both your Melantho was a great deale liker to Iuvenals Laureolus, your wooers and the rest to those degenerat gentlemen, then Maximinus was to beastes: and I hauehave scarse put one false difference in mine, of Maximinus sweete conditions; you hauehave put many in yours. For, to passe over the ingenuousnes of the boy that represented Melantho, opposed to the noblenes of Lentulus who did act Laureolus, the vnlikenes whereof in noblenes, and acting, is disprooved already; chiefly sith 77Nullum simi le est idem, you know.thinges that are not the same, may bee like: first, what proofe hauehave you, that 88The gentlemen of noble houses which Dio specifieth: and foreign among them namely.they, whom Iuvenal noted vnderunder the name of Fabii, did not so much counterfeit others, which your wooers did, as expresse their owne scurrilities? When contrariwise some of them would hauehave hid their faces with 99foreign. Dio Neron.visours, for shame, that they might not be knowne, as counting the infamie thereof worse then death: a very great presumption, that they did abhorre from expressing their own scurrilities on the stage, whom it greeved so much to come on the stage at all.

Next, what wrong is it to charge your Antinous, and other of the whoores, with such scurrilities, as theirs? were not the mmIuvenal. sat. 8. Sueton Ner cap. 2…. Dio Ner.playes that they played made of like arguments, in like sort, to yours? Is not Antinous sett foorth by nnOdyss. li. 17. 18. 20. 21. & 22.Homer, as a malapert llSponsi Penelopae nebulones.knave? to speake in ooEpist. lib. 1. ep. 3.Horaces phrase, of him and his complices. Doe ppEpist. ad Criticum.you not followe Homer, and expresse Antinous with the rest accordinglie, both in their misbehaviour of wordes & of deedes? Thirdlie, doe you know what is meant in Iuvenal by planipedes Fabios, when I having said that the race of Fabius resembled & counterfaited such base ridiculous things as are expressed in Irus, you denie that hee may bee iustlie charged with such? And if you know that they, who were termed qqDiomedes gramma Iul. Scalig poeti. lib. 1. cap. 10planipedes, counterfaited such things as rrMacr. Satur. lib 2. cap. 7.Laberius did when he put on the person of a bondslaue whipped: are you not ashamed to deny that such are expressed in Irus, a begger buffeted, throwne down, and 22Pedibus Irū extrahit, ridentibus procis Vlyss. red. act. 2.haled out by the feete, the wooers laughing p. 80thereat? Finally, why are not the blowes, in your tragedie, given to Vlysses, like the 33Mamercorū alapas.Mamercians whirrets that Iuvenal speaketh of? you thinke them not so badde. I thinke them worse rather. For whirrets, that hee speaketh of, were given with the hande. Your Ulysses is 44Vylssem calce ferit.strooken with Melanthius heele, and 55Scabellum jacit.with Antinous foote-stoole: vnlesse Antinous hurling it did misse the marke, and played not his part as you appointed him out of 66foreign dys. li. 17.Homer. Thus are your differences all vntrue, in part: in whole, a number of them. But suppose they were true. Yet are they all idle: because, as in the felowes speech to Maximinus, the maior being prooved that all living creatures may bee killed, whether one or many bee able to surprise them; the minor apparant, that hee was a living creature; the conclusion folowed, notwithstanding whatsoever differences betweene him, and them, whose examples were brought to proove the maior: likewise in my reason, the maior being prooved, that all stage-players are infamous by the civill law, whether they play for gaine, or freely; the minor apparant, that they who play your playes on the stage, are stage-players; the conclusion foloweth, notwithstanding whatsoever differences betweene yours, and them whose examples for proof of the maior I produced. Nay, I say farder, that as some true differences betwene Maximinus, and the beastes, doe sharpen the edge of the conclusion against him; for if ssPli. nat. hist. lib. 8. cap. 4. Viribus, magnitudine, velocitate praestantiores.greater, stronger, and swifter creatures are killed, how much more might he be? so for you to be stage-players it is more shamefull then for the olde Romans, sith they were ttEph. 4. 18.Eph 4:18ignorant, vv2. Cor. 4. 4.2 Cor 4:4infidels, xxEphe. 2. 12.Eph 2:12without God in the world; you are Scholers, Christians, chosen to be trained vp vntounto the Ministerie; and yyLuk. 12. 48.Luke 12:48vntounto whom much is committed, the more shall be required of him; zzLuk 7. 47.Luke 7:47they who hauehave many sinnes forgiven them, should louelove much; it is a great offence aaAmos. 2. 1….Amos 2:1to giuegive the Nazarites wine to drinke, though to bb1. Tim. 5. 231 Tim 5:23drinke wine be not vnlawfull. Wherefore that of Terence wherewith you conclude, saying that you thinke it was a fowle shame for noble men and Nero to play, but to play noble men or Nero it is no shame for you; as ccTer. Adelph. act. 5. scen. 3.hee saith in the Comedie, Duo quum idem faciunt, saepe, vt possis dicere, Hoc liceti mpunè facere huic, illi non licet; Non quòd dissimilis p. 81res sit, sed quòd is qui facit: although you straiten the point (whether for shame, or for the figure?) when you speake of playing noble men and Nero, your purpose being to iustifie the playing of the ddRivalib.basest, drunkards, & eeVlyss red.whooers too; but if Terences saying would fitt the point in question, the vse thereof must bee to proove that they might lawfully come on the stage, you may not. The truth is that it cannot bee applyed hereto, because ffL. 1. D. de his qui not. infa.the law speaketh generally of stage-players, as it doeth of bawdes, of theeves, with the like; and common sense doeth teach vsus, that 77Vbi lex non distinguit, nec nos distinguere debemus. Gloss ad li. …. D de Public. in rem act. li. 1. §. quod autem. D. de aleatoribus.wee may not distinguish where the lawe distinguisheth not. Else, if I should say that by the same law our English theeves, who robbe on Gaddes hill, are infamous; one of their abbetters might aunswer, No not so: for the Law speaketh of such as ggAsc. Paedia. in Cic. orat. pro Aem. Scaur.Lucius Tubulus, men of wealth and state, who robbed the whole worlde repairing vntounto Rome; not of poore good felowes that robbe a few Kentish men travailing to Graves-end: and I thinke it was a fowle shame for rich men and Tubulus to robbe; but to robbe riche men and Tubulus, it is no shame for vsus: as he saith in the Comedie, that oftentimes, you may say, when two men doe the same thing, the one is not blameworthy for it, the other is, not as if there were difference in the thing it selfe, but in the man that doeth it. Which Comicall sentēce, though it might be as well applied by Iustice Graybeard to the excuse of theft in poore men, as by Terences 88Non est flagitium (mihi crede) adolescentulum scortari. Act. 1. scen. 2.Acts 1Mitio it is to the excuse of whoordom in a young man; yet were it vniustly applied therevnto: because the law condemning theft in whomsoever without respect of persons, bee they rich or poore, doeth count it none of those things which fall within the compasse of Terences 99Saepe. Duo quum idem faciunt, saepe ctc.oftentimes. So considering, stage-players are spoken of in like sort, as theeves, by the law: you see how Terences saying may be applied vntounto them. But if we might apply it vntounto them iustly, wee must inferre thereof that it was no shame for Nero & his mates to come on the stage, for you it is: as S. Paul commandeth vsus hh1. Cor. 5. …1 Cor 5not to eate with any that is called a brother, if he be a fornicatour; which, iiver. 10with an infidell committing the same filthines, he doeth not forbid. And thus while you endevour to vnwind your selfe out of the nett of ignominie and infamie p. 82cast vponupon you by the civill lawe, you are bound faster in it: to the fulfilling of that proverbe, which I wish you had marked in the kkTer. Phorm. act. 1. scen. 2.Comedie rather, if not in the llAct. 9. 5.Acts 9:5Scripture, It is hard to kicke against prickes.

In the second head, to a reason drawn out of the law of God for the reproofe of stage-playes as now you handle it, denying that you made it to proove that men may lawfully put on wemens raiment therein, as I tooke it; though howe iust cause I had to take it so, I hauehave declared; but vntounto this reason grounded on the mmDeut. 22. 5.Deut 22:5law of God in Deuteronomie, Whatsoever man doeth put on womans raiment, he is abominable to the Lord; But men did put on wemens raiment in your playes; you must acknowledge therefore that you were iustly blamed: you reply in like sort as vntounto the former of the civill law; first, that the prohibition of men to weare wemens rayment is not generall, but toucheth certaine cases onelyonly; next, that your players did not weare wemens raiment. And because in treating of the prohibition I shewed out of the Scriptures, that it doeth belong not to the ceremoniall law, but to the morall; and no parte of the morall law may bee transgressed, no, not for the saving of honour, wealth, or life: my proofes hereof beeing so cleere, strong, and pregnant, that you durst not deny the thing to bee prooved, you moue a dout, as your terme is, out of wordes of mine; in deede you reason thus against it. I pray you giuegive mee leaue to propose my contrary dout. The morall law, as you truely say, is the law of louelove and charitie; to the which wheresoever the ceremonial law is repugnant, there it giveth place to the morall. The morall law therefore is never contrarie to louelove and charitie, in commanding or forbidding any thing. But the place of Deutero nomie, being taken strictly, absolutely, and in the rigor of the letter, may sometimes hinder the actions of louelove and charitie, both towards our selves and others; as in those cases, which both you and I propose. Ergo in that strictnes it belongeth rather to the law ceremoniall, though the equitie thereof pertaineth to the law morall, and so it is perpetually and simply to bee observed. Nowe, I hauehave given you leaue to propose your contrary dout. I pray you giuegive me leaue to propose my contrary question. In the p. 83same booke of Deuteronomie it is written, nnDeut. 5. 17.Deut 5:17Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adulterie. These precepts beeing taken strictly, absolutely, and in the rigor of the letter, may sometimes hinder the actions of louelove and charitie, both towardes our selves and others; as appeereth by the example of Ioseph, and of David: Ioseph, who ooGen. 39. 20.Gen 39:20lost his libertie and put his life in hazard, because ppverse. 12.he refused to commit adulterie with his Maisters wife; David, who qq1. Sam. 26. … & 27. 2.1 Sam 26cast his folowers and him selfe into sundry dangers and distresses, because rr1. Sam. 24. 7 and 26. 9.1 Sam 24:71 Sam 26:9he would not kill Saul. Herevpon I aske you, whether you thinke, that seeing the morall lawe bound Ioseph & David to ssLev. 19. 18. Matt. 19. 19. Ephe. 5. 28.Lev 19:18Matt 19:19Eph 5:28louelove their neighbours, & themselves, therefore they should hauehave made no scruple of adulterie and murder, in these cases, in which the forbearing thereof did hinder the actions of louelove toward them selves and others: but ought to hauehave iudged those precepts in that strictnes to belong rather to the law ceremonial, though the equitie thereof pertaineth to the law moral, and so it is perpetually and simply to be observed. Which if you thinke not, as God forbid you should, and you will professe (as I am perswaded) that you detest such thoughts: then doe you acknowledge that it came rather of a lust to crosse and contradict my speech, then of any dout you had within your selfe, that you say, a precept, which beeing strictly kept might breede some disadvantage to our selves or others, must in this respect bee counted ceremoniall, and not be kept strictly, because the morall law is never contrarie to love and charitie in commanding or forbidding any thing. And sure you might hauehave reason to take it not well, if I should suppose you to be so ill catechized, as that you knew not that the moral law commandeth vsus to ttDeut. 6. …. Matt. 22. 3….Deut 6Matt 22:3louelove God aboue all things, and man after him; that vvDeut. 6. 6. Ioh. 14. 15.Deut 6:6John 14:15our louelove to Godward is prooued by the obseruing and keeping of his commandements; that if by keeping of them we should seeme to hate man, we must xxGen. 22. 2. Luk. 14. 26.Gen 22:2Luke 14:26hate him rather, then not performe our louelove to God: that it foloweth not hereof the law is contrary vntounto louelove neither, because to hate man so is to yyMatt. 10. 37Matt 10:37louelove him lesse then God, in comparison, and not in deede to hate him; nay, it is to louelove him, sith it is to wish him and worke him zzMatt. 16. 26 Rom. 8. 13. 2. Cor. 4. ….Matt 16:26Rom 8:132 Cor 4greater good by losse of lesse good which p. 84he can not retaine therewith. Howbeit, had you doubted, yet might you hauehave found enough to resolue you, if you had read my writing rather with a minde to learne, then to gainesay, in as much as I shewed by Scripture touchinge Peter, that hee should not hauehave lyed to avoid the daunger of whatsoeuer trouble: because to lye is evill; not allowed in any case by our law-giver, no not for the defense of the glorie of God, much lesse for the safetie of man, a worme. Or, if, notwithstanding all that this could teach you, there might some occasion of doubting still remaine: should you not hauehave rather sought to be resolved by me in private conference, then publikelie in writing (made common with many, even in the country also, not onelyonly in our Vniversitie) to affirme a point implying flat atheisme, that wee are no farder to keepe Gods commaundements, then standes with our commoditie? and so conclusivelie to vouch it with an Ergo, as if it did folow necessarilie, that all the lawes of God (for your reason holdeth by consequent in all) must be sett aside, like ceremoniall matters, when our owne, or other mens, honour, wealth, or life, cometh in question with them? and to adde that the equitie thereof yet pertayneth to the law moral, and so they are perpetuallie and simplie to be observed? which semeth by distinguishing their equitie from strictnes to strēgthen them in sound meaning; in deede destroyeth them by teaching their transgressors how to defend most grosse iniquitie: as idolaters, for example, when, if aaDan. 3. 6.Dan 3:6Nabuchodonosor doe threaten he will burne al who worship not his golden image, they may say, that albeit in Deuteronomie God saith, bbDeut. 5. 9.Deut 5:9Thou shalt not bowe downe to them, nor worship them, yet sith the morall law is never contrary to louelove in forbidding any thing, and the place of Deuteronomie, being taken strictlie, would hinder now mens actions of love toward them selues; Ergo in that strictnes it belongeth rather to the law ceremoniall, though the equitie thereof pertaineth to the law morall, and so it is perpetuallie and simplie to be observed. A sentence so vngodlie, that when Peter onelyonly touched it a farre off, or rather lesse then touched it, speaking of a particular case, no generall law; nor Ergoing against it, nor terming the keeping of it strictnes, nor plaistering the breach of it with equitie: but p. 85when he tended towards it by saying to our Saviour, ccMatt. 16. 22Matt 16:22Maister, pitie thy selfe, this shall not bee vntounto thee, our Sauiour answered him, Gett thee behind me, Satan, thou art an offense vntounto me, because thou savourest not the things that are of God, but the things that are of men.

Sutable to this new argument of yours is the defense of your olde (the onelyonly one you pressed before) from two examples. For whereas you had reasoned thus, Some men of Macedonie, mooved by Prince Alexander, did putt on Wemens raiment to save the honor of Ladies; the like did Achilles, the sonne of Thetis, to save his life; Ergo it is lawfull to doe it in such cases; and I made answer thereto, that the reason is naught, because we are to live by lawes, not by exāples; neyther may we lye or forsweare our selves to save our lives, or benefitt others, though David & Peter did so, men worthier to be folowed then Macedonians, or Achilles: you reply, that the reason is good (this must you meane by saying that the examples are alleadged to good purpose in the circumstances that you apply them for, or else you delude vsus with an other sophisme;) and why? For Alexanders fact is commended (say you) as proceeding from a most noble, and true heroicall minde; and because it was better that the Persian Embassadors were slaine, then that the chastities of so many great Ladies should so dishonorably be either overthrowne, or so much as assailed: and Thetis might well hide her sonne Achilles in a maidens apparell in respect of motherlie love & pitie which shee was to beare her sonne, knowing, as shee did, that hee should be slaine in that iourney to Troy, whether he was requested to accompanie the other Grecian Lords. Touching the former wherof, to admitt, that Alexanders fact proceeded from a noble true heroicall minde, and that it was better the Persian Embassadours were slaine then the chastities of so many great Ladies should so dishonorably be overthrowne, or assailed: yet doeth it not folow that men might therefore lawfullie put womens raiment on to kill them; the thing might be cōvenient and good to be done, the meanes of doeing it not good. As 11Satius est impunitum relinqui facinus nocentis, quàm innocentem damnari.it is better that a person guiltie should bee left vnpunished, then a person guiltlesse should be condemned: and 22Trajan the Emperour lib. 19. D. de poenis.he, whose saying this was, spake it p. 86of a noble true heroicall minde. Yet were the meanes naught to procure by bribes or by false witnesses the escape or acquittall of a guiltie person: and if any man, who had vsed such dealing, should be commended for it, he should bee commended amisse in that respect, as Alexander is by you. Now, for the later, how proove you that Thetis might well hide her sonne Achilles, as shee did? You say, that you thinke not but she might doe it well. So. Your reason then is: I thinke shee might doe it well; Ergo she might. A common kinde of argument with you; but thinne, and leane: nor likely to proove better at the length in triall, of whatsoever plight it seeme in your writing. For let it fare as it may in Topickes, in Analytickes it must fast: it can not away with moode and figure. And what if you thinke not that shee might neither? as I thinke you doe not; vnlesse you thinke contraries, or speake otherwise then you thinke. For your selfe affirme, that the putting on of wemens rayment which is termed an abomination to the Lord in the place of Deuteronomie, is the wearing of it ordinarily, so to converse among men and wemen, against the course of all naturall and civill regard. But Thetis, intending thereby to hide Achilles, did clothe him to converse so ordinarily among men and wemen: even longer, then he would endure to converse so; though ddStatius Achilleid. li. 2. Natum ante pedes projecit. Neoptolemum. De quo Verg. Aeneid. lib. 2 Apollod. de orig. Deor. lib. 3.he endured for certaine yeares. Therefore that, which shee did, you thinke to bee abominable: yea, pronounced in Scripture an abomination to the Lorde. The lesse materiall is it whether that be true which by the way I noted, that Statius the Poet making Chiron, Calchas, and Achilles himselfe to reproove the putting of that raiment on him, meant that men of wise, vertuous, religious, ingenuous, valiant mindes, did iudge the thing simply in any case vnlawfull by the light of nature. Though I wish our iudges, vntounto whose arbitrement I referre the matter, whether you controll me therein well, or no, to marke that for Chiron, in whom are represented wise and vertuous persons, albeit you affirme hee had a furder reache then his words outwardly import: yet in setting down that reache you adde, perhaps, as staggering at your owne conceit; and withall acknowledge that his words outwardly, whereof you can not proove an p. 87other inward meaning, import as much as I said. Beside that they may iustly suspect your partiall censure, because, where I had likewise noted by the way that the fact of Achilles, deflowring Deidamia by meanes and occasion of his conversing so with her, doeth shewe what inconvenience and danger of vncleannes cleaveth to the cladding of men in wemens raiment: you doe overthwartly & wrongfully crosse my note by saying that hee was likely to doe as much in his owne likenes any where else. For let malefactours bee never so ready to practise any wickednes of their owne corrupt and lewde inclination: the circumstances of maner, season, place, and so foorth, commodious to performe it doe more entise them therevnto. Weapons them selves (saith eeOdyss. li. 2… foreign.Homer) doe draw men to fight: and 33Occasio facit furem.opportunitie maketh the eves. The force whereof in this thing I said enough to open by that, as ffTer. Eun.Chaerea could not hauehave defiled Pamphila, no not in Thais house, without his Eunuches raiment: so, if womans rayment had not come on ggSueton. Iulio, cap. 74. Plutarc. vit. Caes. & Cicer.Clodius, Caesar should not hauehave put away his wife Pompeia so soone as he did; perhaps never. Or are you of opinion that with vsus it skilleth not whether scholers lodge in Colleges & Halls, or in townesmens houses? Yea, although they bee neither so much conversant, nor go in like attire, as Achilles vsed with Lycomedes daughter? Our Saviour said to his Disciples, hhMark. 9. 4…Mark 9:4If thy foote cause thee to offend, cutt it of; if thine eye cause thee to offend, plucke it out: meaning that wee must sever our selves from thinges and persons that are most deare vntounto vsus, if they be an occasion vntounto vsus of sinne, and hinder vsus in the way of life. Yet a man that had heard him with your disposition, might hauehave said, What needes it? seeing though we cutt off one foote, or plucke out one eye, the other is likely to cause vsus to offend. VponUpon Moses wordes in Genesis, touching Dina, that iiGen. 34. 1Gen 34:1shee went out to see the daughters of that country, and Sichem ravished her, kkCalvin, Marlorat, Peter Martyr.godly learned interpreters observe that her wandering and idle curiositie is noted and reprooved as an occasion of the vilanie that was done vntounto her. Yet a gadding humour and wanton eye of maidens loth to folow S. llTit. 2. 5.Titus 2:5Paules rule and keepe at home, might say that such teachers are puritans, who can not abide whitson-ladies: for p. 88Sichem was likely to doe as much to Dina, though shee had kept at home in her fathers house, and never come in Sichems sight. The very fact in question, whereon you mislike that I made this note of such occasions and entisements, hath the same observed therein by the mmStatius Achilleid li. 1.Poet, the wise reporter of it: namely, that Achilles lust was first kindled by seeing Deidamia; afterwarde encreased by conversing with her; and finally accomplished by coming through the falacie of his attire, like a woman, 44Lex procal ire mares: iterat praecepta verendus Ductor, inaccessumque viris edicitur antrum. Nec satis est: stat fine dato metuenda sacerdos, exploratque aditus; nequis temerator ob erret Agmine faemineo: Tacitus sub…isit Apollo.whither else in likenes of a man hee could not. But whatsoever Statius iudged of the matter, or others shall iudge of that I noted by the way; you graunt it was abominable by the lawe of God, for Thetis to put womans raiment on her sonne Achilles, as shee did. And so you hauehave rather confirmed, then confuted, mine aunswere to your argument from the two examples of Macedonians and Achilles. You come in now anew with halfe a dozen more: three of men, attiring them selves in wemens raiment; three of wemen, in mens. And quoting 55Eucl. Mega. Theop. rex. Spar. Antenor Cepha. Euphrosyna virgo Antioch. Theod. virgo & Martyr. Eugenia Romana.their names onelyonly in your margent, you say that if you had thought that these two examples should not hauehave bene taken in your meaning, that is, onelyonly in the circumstance for the which you alleaged them, you could hauehave vsed many true stories of both sexes, to the which no such exceptions could hauehave bene taken. Wherein, to passe over, that by giving the name of true to those stories, you make it very probable that you meant nnVlyss. red. resp. ad Momum.before vnderunder the name of stories, the fable of Achilles, as I supposed you did by the drift of your wordes, (speaking first in generall of 66Id quod crebra testari potest Histor.stories prooving 77Quid si cogeret lethi metus Mutare vestem? publicum quid si bonum Suaderet?two points; then bringing 88Veste filius Amyntae indui Iuvenes muliebri dum …bet, tot faeminis Claris pudorē servatone in speciall to proove the one of them, 99Vitam tuetur silius Thetidis suam.Achilles to proove the other) which yet you deny to hauehave bene your meaning, and charge mee with vntruth in effect for saying it: you doe farder charge me that I hauehave not taken those two examples in your meaning. No hauehave? Why? Meant you not by them to conclude, that a man may lawfully put on womans raiment, to saue his life, or benefite many, because in such cases Achilles and the Macedonians did put on such raiment? And hauehave not I expressely set this reason downe, affirming it to be your reason, and making mine aunswere accordingly thereto? yes: but I p. 89hauehave also in mine aunswer to it noted other circumstances of the same examples, therby to make plainer the badnes of your reason: and so I hauehave not taken them in your meaning, that is (as you expound it) onelyonly in the circumstance for the which you alleaged them. You are a mery man, and not much vnlike in this respect to one, who when hee had taken vp a waster and buckler in Cheapeside at London to play with an apprentice, & the apprentice rapped him, sometime vponupon the head, sometime vponupon the elbow, or shoulder, or side, hee cast them downe againe; saying, that if he had thought that the apprentice would not hauehave stroken vponupon his buckler still, he would not hauehave played with him. Yet in this you vary from the vaine of his speech, that you say you could hauehave vsed many true stories of both sexes, to the which no such exceptions could hauehave bene taken. Though you helpe your selfe no more by this varying, then if his skill had served him to hauehave warded all the blowes with his buckler; his weaknes being neverthelesse vnable to resist, but that he might hauehave had his buckler beaten about his eares. For what if no such exceptions could be taken against your six examples? Doeth not the same aunswer that I made to your reason from the Macedonians example, and Achilles, beate downe these also to the ground: sith none of them is equall to David, or to Peter, whose actions notwithstanding are no sufficient warrants for vsus? Moreover, as in beheading of noble personages, that are traitours, the executioner, having cutt of their heads, doeth hold them vp in his handes, & shew them to the people: so I, having thus beheaded, as it were, these your six examples, I meane, the reason drawne from them, perhaps (notwithstanding your confident assertion that no such exceptions can bee taken against them) might hold them vp in my handes, and shew that they are dead, by the like or more absurd consequutions from other circumstances thereof. For example, in one or two, the chiefest of them, the first of eche sexe, Euclides, and Euphrosyna; the storie of Euclides is, that when the ooA. …. noct. Art. lib. 6. cap. 10.Athenians, hauing their neighbours of Megara in great hatred, had decreed that if any of the men of that citie were found within Athenes, he should suffer death: Euclides being of it, and loth p. 90to lose the benefit of the schoole of Socrates, with whom hee vsed to be at Athenes and to heare him, before that law was made, did cloth himselfe in womans attire towardes evening; went from his house in Megara to Athenes, vntounto Socrates; enioyed his speech and conference some parte of the night time; and when day approched, returned home againe a litle more then twentie miles in the same attire.

Now, if this were lawfully done, because he did it: then ppMatt. Paris. hist. Ang. in Ricardo pri.William Bishop of Ely, who, to saue his honour and wealth, became a 11Tunica viridi faeminea indutus; capam habens ejusdem coloris, peplum in capite muliebre portās.greene-sleeues, going in womans raiment lesse way then twenty miles, from Douer castle to the Sea side, did therein like a man; although the wemen of Douer, when they had found it out by plucking downe his muffler & seeing his newshauen beard, 22Mulierculae clamorem ad sidera tollentes, Venite, inquiunt, & lapidemus hoc monstrū, quod sexum vtrumque deformavit.called him a monster for it: then with vsus a scholer, who thinketh of some man, as Euclide did of Socrates, and can not well frequent his house in the day time for suspitiō of lewdnes with his Xanthippe, or of Poperie, may come like a maiden thither in the night: then our Vniuersitie Statute of night-walkers would be taken away, or qualified at least; and if our Proctors meete one like a womā at midnight, they must not be suspicious; some studious youth, it may be, come from Wickam or Beaconsfield, and daring not to trauaile by day for theeues through Shotouer, is going to some learned man. In like sort, touching Euphrosyna, a maide of Alexandria, (of Antioche 33Euphrosyna virgo Antiochyou name her, by slippe of penne or memorie) the storie is, that qqSim Metaphrast. vit. S. Euphrosynes Alexandr. apud Surium, de probat. Sanct. histor. Tom. 1.she, desiring much to liue in an Abbay like a monke, 44Cur metuum parentem lugentē & tristē reliquisti? Non te ad hanc spem alebam, sed vt haberē baculum senectutis, solatium imbecillitatis meae.forsooke not onelyonly her father, who had brought her vp to be a staffe in his olde age, a comfort in his weaknes to him; but also a 55Pater vniqui praestabat om nibus, opibꝰ, gloria, & virtute, despondit puellam.worthy, noble, vertuous gentleman, to whom she was betrothed; clad in mans apparell she came vntounto the Abbat; and being asked of him who she was, from what place, & for what cause she came, she answered, that 66Se vocari qui dem Smaragdú: esse autem ex aula Imperatoris.her name in deede was Smaragdus, and she was of the Emperours Court, and came to that Abbay to leade a holy life, if she might be admitted; and so finding fauour to be admitted as a man, she liued there 77Triginta & …cto aunos.eight and thirty yeares in mans apparell. Whereof if you inferre againe, as you doe, Euphrosyna did it, Ergo lawfull; p. 91a better proofe, I grant, then, Achilles did it, or Mocedonians did it, because they were profane men, rrMartyrolog. Roman. Ianuar. 1. Graecor. menolog Caes. Baron. notationib. in martyrolog. Roman.Euphrosyna is a Saint; but as you reason thus: likewise may an other in the same moode and figure; Euphrosyna, through a desire of moonkish perfection, refused to honour her father; Ergo ssMark. 7. 9.Mark 7:9Christ did wrongfully checke the Scribes and Pharises for breaking Gods commandements to keepe traditions of men: Euphrosyna chose rather to be with others then with him to whom she was betrothed; Ergo Moses erred in teaching that a ttDeut. 22. 23.Deut 22:23maide bethrothed is a vvverse. 24.wife, & that xxGen. 2. 24.Gen 2:24the wife should cleaue inseparably to her husband: Euphrosyna lyed for a vantage; Ergo S^t. yy1. Ioh. 2. 21.1 John 2:21Iohn was a precisian, who condemneth all lyes: Euphrosyna conuersed in mens apparell, amongst men, eight and thirty yeares; Ergo D. Gager mistooke the place of Deuteronomie, when he gaue it this meaning, that to goe attired so ordinarily is abomination to the Lord. See you now what maner if true stories, of true all, you could hauehave vsed of both sexes? and how bold you were in saying that no such exceptions could be taken to them, as to the former? The which notwithstanding, were it as you say, you doe no more helpe your argument thereby, then if a traitour being beheaded, whom you favoured, you staied the executioner from holding vp his head, and sowed it on againe your selfe to his body with close and hansom stitches. For although no such exceptions could be taken to any of your examples, yet had I beheaded with the zzHeb. 4. 13.Heb 4:13the swoord of Gods woord the reason drawne from them: and with Iustinians swoord too, in that I adioyned for your sake out of your law, that we are to liue by lawes, not by examples: and to 88Non tam spectandum est quid Romae factū sit, quàm quid fieri debeat. lib. 12. D. de Officio Praesid.looke, not so much what is done any where, as what ought to be done.

Hereunto you adde an other new argument to shew that the place of Deuteronomie toucheth certaine cases onelyonly, not generally forbiddeth a man to put on womans raiment: and that is, the opinion and iudgement of Diuines. For after you had deliuered these expositions of it, as liked by your selfe, that to weare such raiment of a lewde intent, the rather thereby, & the more safely to be in the company of wemen to bring some bad purpose about; or of an effeminate minde to suffer his heare to grow p. 92long, or to frizell it; or in speech, colour, gate, gesture, and behaviour to become womanish; or ordinarily so to conuerse among men and wemen, against the course of all naturall, and civill regard, is abomination to the Lord: and noted it moreover to be expounded by other thus, that wemen are forbidden to put on the armour of men, and men the raiment of wemen, because at that time it was superstitious, in as much as among the Gentiles wemen woare mens armour in the sacrifices of Mars, and men woare wemens ornaments and instruments, as distaffe, spindell, and such like, in the sacrifices of Venus; and therefore is it added that he who doth so is abominable to God because abomination is taken in the Scriptures commonly for idolatrie, or some thing belonging to idolatrie: but after you had sett downe these expositions, you say that all the Divines whom ever you talked with of this matter, doe affirme the true meaning of that place to be conteined in these senses rehearsed. Wherein by alleaging the consent of all Diuines that euer you talked with hereof, as making for you, first, you grant your self never to hauehave talked here of with S. Cyprian, Chrysostome, Procopius, Thomas Aquinas, Liranus, Calvin, Hyperius, Beza, Bishop Babingtō; who making it a point annexed (as I shewed) to the seventh commandemēt, doe imply the meaning therof to be larger then your rehearsed senses: neuer with aaStrom. lib. 2Clemens Alexandrinus, bbDe fide & legib. cap. 13Gulielmus Parisiensis, ccIn Deutero. artic. 23.Dionysius Carthusianus, ddDeclamat. in Deuter.Ferus, eeAnnot. Paraphr. Onkeli Chald. in Deutero.Fagius, ffEthic. Christian. lib. 2. cap. 14.Danaeus; who by handling it in like sort as the former, doe testifie their agreement with them in the conclusion: neuer with Tertullian, ggDivin. institut. lib. 6. cap. 20.Lactantius, hhSoliloquior. lib. 2. cap. 16Austin, the Bishops assembled in the sixth generall councell to the number of aboue two hundred and twenty: who partly by vrging that place against stage-players partly by condemning the thing it speaketh of, as lewde, doe evidently argue that they are of a different minde from you concerning it. Or sith you hauing had the most of these quoted in my letters to you, doe grant, for Cyprian namely & the generall concel, that they make against you, & therfore seeme, in citing all that euer you talked with; to meane not such as you hauehave read and perused, but whom you hauehave asked thereof by woord of mouth: then, why should you more enforce against p. 93mee the sayings and iudgment of all that euer you talked with, then I against you the sayings and iudgements of all that euer I talked with? For as you report of them whom you talked with that they are very godly and excellently learned: in like sorte may I of them whom I talked with. And of mine you can not but the rather beleeue me, because I named you one, of whom your selfe answer, that you esteeme him to be a good man, a good scholer, and a good Preacher: you name me none of yours. Againe, there hath not any of yours in publike place, where men doe speake with greater advise to Christian auditories, avouched that which you hold: he, whom you commend, and commend iustly, hath preached the same that I teach. But, you say, he could not iustifie his speech, vttered so publikely, if it should come to due triall. But, I say, this speech of yours so publikely vttered is come to due triall, and you can not iustifie it. For he, hauing opened the woords of his text, iiPsal. 119. 10Ps 119:10Let me not wander from thy commandements, & begonne to shew what a cōtrary course vntounto the Prophets practise we take now a daies, did prosequute it thus. To lett passe other things, let stage-playes in the Vniuersitie, and Maygames in the towne, speake whether these things be so. In kkDeut. 22. 5.Deut 22:5Deuteronomie the precept is, The woman shall not put on mans raiment, nether shall a man putt on womans raiment; for all that doe so are abomination to the Lord: And it is the ll1. The. 5. 22Apostles precept to abstaine from all appearance of evill. Whether the former precept be broken in all playes, I know not. Sure very few or none there are, wherein either the one, or both, is not broken: either through the vile scurrilitie of the matter oftentimes vnbeseeming chast eares; or thorough the time for the preparing for them; or through the vnnecessarie charges about them; or through the manifold daungers comming both to actors, and spectators, by them. Herevpon, having added somewhat touching maygames, he made this exhortation. The Prophet prayeth vntounto the Lorde, that hee may not wander from his commandementes. His action ought to be thine instruction: and art thou so farre from folowing him that thou treadest his law vnderunder thy feete, and castest his wordes behinde thee? Take heede, feare, and tremble; thou hast not to deale with p. 94man, but with God: who hath left thee his law, not to dally withall, or cunningly to deceve thy selfe with thine owne glosses vponupon the same, but to bee the witnesse of his will, and rule of thy life. This is the same speech, and all, that hee did vtter so publikely hereof; set downe in writing by him selfe before hee vttered it: a speech, that in this present triall betweene vsus is already iustified, and shall bee declared farder to be mm1. Cor. 3. 121 Cor 3:12gold, silver, pretious stones, in the day of great triall. So shall the same doctrine delivered by S. Cyprian, the sixth generall councel, and other worthy men: when of the contrary side your wood, hay, stubble, shal be consumed by fire. In the meane season your self doe lay open your own corrupt affections, & blaze your own shame sundry wayes. One, in that you say, that you trust you shall not seeme to any man to wrong S. Cyprian & the rest, if you folow the opiniō of others both very godly & excellentlie learned, who do interpret that text of Deuter. otherwise then hee, or they doe: specially in a case that toucheth you so neere, wherin you are to defende your selfe and many your good frends from the reproch of open infamie. For you speake therein, as if the question beeing of an other text, nnDeut. 23. 19Deut 23:19Thou shalt not giuegive to vsurie vntounto thy brother, ooD. Wilsons discourse vpō vsurie.which some newer writers expound against vnmercifull and cutting vsurie, as they terme it; not against all vsurie, as Austin with a number of ancient Fathers doeth; an vsurer should saye: I trust I shall not seeme to any man to wrong S. Austin and the rest, if I folow the opinion of others, both very godly and excellenly learned, who doe expound that text otherwise then hee, or they doe; specially in a case that toucheth mee so neere, wherin I am to defend my selfe, and many my good frendes, from great discredit and discommoditie. An other, in that you adde, that you well wote it litle becommeth you to say, Da veniam Cypriane. In deede, for my selfe, whom in this you glance at, I must confesse I thought that it did become ppPraefat. thes. de sacr. scrip. and eccles.me to saye, Da veniam Cypriane, vponupon the circumstances that I said it: which, if it were a fault, though D. qqHis answere to the preface of Gre. Mar. discovery, sect. 15.Fulke thought otherwise, but if it were, it was of errour; and I will recant it, if you confute the 99Set down in the end of my conference w^t Hart: in the Defence of such things as Tho. Stapleton, & Gregorie Martin hauehave carped at in my Theses.reasons that mooved me to thinke it did become mee so to say. But you, who wote well (by your owne confession) p. 95it litle becommeth you to say, Da veniam Cypriane, doe thereby acknowledge, that although you are perswaded, as you pretend, the proper naturall sense of the worde of God to bee on your side, not on Cyprians; in trueth you are not so. For else you would thinke that it should become you very well to say, Pardon mee, O Cyprian: sith you know, I hope, that it became the Apostles very well to say, rrAct. 5. 29.Acts 5:29Wee ought rather to obey God then men. And if it doe litle become you to saye, Pardon mee, O Cyprian, when yet you dissent from him and contradict him: then you glozed in saying that with all humblenesse you reverence his autoritie; seeing, to craue 11Quod divinarum Scripturarum autoritati congruit in literis Cypriani, cū laude eius accipio: quod autem non cōgruit, cum pace eius respuo. August. cont. Cresco. gramma. lib. 2 cap. 32.leaue and pardon, in dissenting, is a signe of reverence. And if to vse so milde words, Pardon mee, O Cyprian, it become you litle: how much lesse, to say, as in effect you doe, 22Maledicta textum glossa quae vitiat bonū. Vlyss. red. resp. ad Mom.It is a cursed glosse, O Cyprian, which thou makest? And if vntounto Cyprian alone it litle becommeth you to say so much: how greatly vnbeseeming is it for you to say it vntounto such a number, both of olde, & new interpreters, besides him? Finally, for an vpshoote, where you say that he, as a godly man, was caried with a vehement & a perfit hatred against the detestable abuses of the heathen spectacles in his time: you graunt that the spectacles of playes sett foorth by you hauehave detestable abuses in them; sith the 33Cothurnus est tragicus prisca facinora carmine recensere: de parricidis & incestis horror antiquus, expressa ad imaginē veritatis actione, replicatur Cypr. epist. 2 ad Donat.tragedies, the playing whereof he detesteth, are such as your Ulysses; the 44Vt ad scenae sales inverecundos transitum faciam, pudet referre quae dicuntur pudet etiam accusare quae fiunt: agentium strophas, adulterorum fallacias, mulierum impudicitias, scurriles iocos, parasitos sordidos; ipsos quoque patres familiâs togatos, modo stupidos, modò obscoenos, in omnibus stolidos, certis nominibus inverecundos. Cyprian. de spectac. cap. 5.Comedies, as your Rivales: and so, how litle care you hauehave of being godly, who are not only not caried with an hatred, I say not, with a vehemēt & perfit hatred, against them, but also dote vponupon them, & write defenses of thē, I iudge you not, your own mouth iudgeth you. As for those godly and learned Divines, who being talked withall by you touching the true sense of the place of Deuteronomie, did make that answer which you mention: what if they, misliking your resolute intent, did folow the example of Michaeas the Prophet? ss1. King. 22. 15.1 Kgs 22:15who being asked by king Achab wheher he should go against Ramoth Gilead to battell, or leaue off; did answer him, Go vp, & prosper; & the Lord shall deliver it into the hand of the king. What if in a meriment, knowing why you asked it, they spake vntounto you, as Cassellius a lawier vntounto a certaine Roman? p. 96ttMacrob. Saturn lib. 2. cap. 6.Of whom, when Uatinius having had stones throwne at him by the people, to whom he was odious, did purpose to set forth a spectacle of fensers, and had gotten the magistrates to make proclamation that no man should cast ought into the place of spectacles saving an apple onelyonly; Cascellius beeing asked, whether a pine apple were an apple, If thou meane to hurle it at Vatianus, it is, quoth he. What if you mistooke the summe of their answer, or a worde therein? they telling you perhaps that the true meaning of the place of Deuteronomie doeth containe those senses which are rehearsed by you; and you misconstruing them as if they had said that the true meaning thereof is contained in those senses rehearsed, and so may in no case bee extended farder. Of which three coniectures (you force me to divine of them, and betweene them, because you would not name the parties whom you cite, that by them selves I might learne what they said, and why,) the last in my opinion seemeth most probable: considering it is likely that godly learned men would looke what had bene written vponupon the place by interpreters; and the interpreters, whose wordes, even translated by you in a maner, are an evident token what your Divines tolde you, doe specifie those thinges as meant, in such sort, that they deny not but more might bee meant; yea most of them affirme the generall to be meant also. For, of five particulars (so many you set down) Strabus, the autour of the ordinarie Glosse, hath two: namely that a man 55Mulieris naturaliter diversus est color, motus, incessus, viresmust not become womanish in colour, gate, and so foorth; nor 66Comam crispare, torquere capillos: vndeApostolus, vir si comam nutrierit, ignominia est. illi.suffer his heare to grow long, or frizill it. The other three, that hee may not put on womans raiment, 77Posset intrare vir ad mulierē sub habitu muliebrithereby the more safely to be in wemens company, to bring about some bad purpose; nor 88Quas natura sexu discreverat, discernat & vestitus.ordinarily so to converse among men and wemen, against the course of naturall & ciuill regard; nor 99In sacris Veneris viri effaeminabantur. Or, as Liranus speaketh, whose wordes you expresse, portabant ornamenta & instrumēta mulierū, vtpote colum, fusum & similia.to be womanlike in the sacrifices of Uenus: these hath Gulielmus Alvernus, Bishop of Parise, and Carthusianus after him; Aquinas, and Liranus too, the last of them. Now Strabus saith not that those two thinges alone are meant: the rest doe say that so much more is meant then the other three, as prooveth my assertion. For the vvGuliel. Pari. de fide & legib. cap. 13.Bishop of Parise, cited and abbridged by Dionysius Carthusianus, among sundry causes why the lawe of p. 97God should forbid a man to put on womans raiment, giveth this for one, 11Vt occasio magna provocationi libidinis auferretur.that a great occasion of provoking men to lust might be taken away. For 22Magna provocatio libidinis viris est vestitus muliebris.the apparell of wemen (saith he) is a great provocation of men to lust and leacherie: because a 33Vestis muliebris viro circundata vehementer refricat memoriam & commovet imaginationem mulieris.womans garment beeing put on a man doeth vehemently touch and moue him with the remembrance & imagination of a woman; and 44Imaginatio rei desiderabilis commovet desideriū.the imagination of a thing desirable doth stirr vp the desire. The same in 55Incentivum est concupiscentiae, & occasionem libidini praestat. 1^a 2^•. quaest. 102. art. 6.fewer words Aquinas doeth affirme. And Liranus farder, having declared what mooved him to preferre the last exposition (rehearsed by your self, though somewhat confusely, which I was bolde to mend in the recitall of it, the better here to be vnderstoode) saith, that if the text be meant of common apparell, 66Prohibetur hîc talis vsus, vel potius abusus, quia est occasio libidinis.then is such an vse or rather abuse forbidden, because it is an occasion of wantonnes and lust. Wherein he hath relation to that, whereas the 77Heb. CEL…word, vsed in the former branch of the sentence touching mens furniture not to be worne by wemen, doeth sometime signifie common apparell, sometime armour; he had said, that this place, he thought, the signification of armour fitted best: induced therevnto because he had read that wemen in the sacrifices of Mars did beare armour; and the reason added, for all that doe so are abomination to the Lord, might wel enough agree, sith matters of idolatrie are commonly in the Scriptures termed abomination. But seeing it appeareth not by sufficient proofe that wemen woare mens armour in the sacrifices of Mars, or men woare wemens distaffes, spindles, and such like, in the sacrifices of Uenus; and the later branch of the law forbidding a man to put on womans 88Heb. SIMLAH.raiment, doeth shew that common apparell is meant in the former, as S. Hierome also in the vulgar 99Non induetur mulier veste virili: nec vir vtetur veste faeminea.Latin translation hath noted: it foloweth that Liranus resteth and resolveth vponupon the generall sense and exposition as truest. By consequence whereof the worde, abomination, must not be restrained to matters of idolatrie, but taken in his naturall meaning: according to the like vse therof in like places, where the xxLeui. 18. 22 & 20. 13. Deut. 23. ….Deut 23law condemneth those execrable villanies, to which this change of raiment provoketh and entiseth. Thus seeing that no one of all those interpreters, by whom the expositions, which you rehearse, are sett down, denieth that the law p. 98extendeth farder then your specialties, & most of them affirme it: I feare it were a fault in me to beleeve you, that godly learned Divines, with whom you talked thereof, should all avouch vntounto you the thing you father on them. Howbeit, if they did, and you will needes enforce their testimonie against me; mine aunswer made to Cyprian, to them I must apply: The law forbidding men to put on wemens raiment, saith that all who doe so are abomination to the Lorde. What? And hauehave godly learned Divines said otherwise? Pardon me, ye godly & learned Divines; I would beleeve you gladly, but that beleeving you I should not beleeve the word of God. And I assure my selfe so much of their modestie, that though you, with yyThe preface of his discoverie.Gregorie Martin, doe taunt me for my presumptuous saying, Pardon mee O Cyprian: yet, sith zzRetractat. lib. 2. cap. 18Austin thought hee might, without any disgrace vntounto Cyprian, allow of Tychonius the Donatists exposition as better sitting a place of scripture, then his did; they will not take it hardly that I preferre the iudgement of Cyprian, with Austin, and such, so many other both olde and new interpreters, before theirs in this point.