Christian Questions and Answers Part 2, Catechism · Question 74 – Question 107
73. Queſtion.
But certainly it ſeemeth that there was in thoſe Sacramentes a more playne Analogie or proportion of the ſignes with the thinges ſignified. For in very deede the fleſh and blood of thoſe ſlayne ſacrifices, did more playnely repreſent the fleſhe and blood of Chriſte crucified, then bread and wine: and Manna falling downe from heauen did after a ſorte more liuely ſet before our eies the incarnation of the word, alſo the water flowing out of the opened rocke, the blood of Chriſte flowing out of his wounded ſide, then the breaking of bread & the powring out of wine into the cup.
Anſweare.
In good ſooth thoſe not yet done but to be done, ought to bee repreſented too the fathers by a more groſſe proportion then vntounto vsus, bicauſe that it is farre harder to beleeue thinges to come, then already done and witneſſed by a ſure and playne hiſtorie. Therefore as thou haſt ſayde thoſe ſignes did ſignifie the thing to come more groſſely & palpably. But in this thou art ſpecially deceiued that thou thinkeſt the more groſſe the Analogie or proportion, is that the more ſignificant it is.
Queſtion.
Why ſo?
Anſweare.
Becauſe the thinges ſignified by the Sacramentes are heauenly, which fleſhe and bloode teache not, but that ſame onelyonly Maiſter of trueth the holie Ghoſt: wherevppon all Beleeuers are ſayde by Eſay and by Chriſt himſelfe,Eſay. 5. 14. Iohn. 6. 4, 5. to be taught of GOD. Therefore the efficacie of the Analogie or proportion dependeth vppon the woorde, whereby is ſette foorth both what it is and whereto it tendeth.
Queſtion.
Wilt thou bee ſo good as to ſette downe ſome ſimilitude, whereby I may more fully vnderſtand what this matter meaneth?
Anſweare.
Verily I am very well content, that alſo the mouthes of the Sophiſters may be ſhut vp. If thou beyng altogether ignorant of theſe myſteries, ſhouldeſt ſee ſome circumciſed, what wouldeſt thou thinke of it?
Queſtion.
Surely I would thinke the Parents to be very cruell towardes their newe borne babe, ſo that I ſhoulde vtterly deteſt them, vnleſſe I ſhoulde vnderſtande their meaning to be otherwiſe.
Anſweare.
But thou ſhouldſt indeed vnderſtand it, if I ſhoulde ſhewe vntounto thee that this were done by the commaundement of God. But if ſo be alſo I ſhoulde declare vntounto thee, by the inſtitution of God, that by the foreſkinne were ſignified our natural filthineſſes and their fruits, which that ſame ſonne of GOD to be borne ſhould take away, by the ſhedding forth of his blood, thou wouldeſt a great deale the rather cōtent thy ſelfe. Notwithſtā ding thou wouldeſt deſire being taught now the ſelfe ſame thing, that the ſame might be ſhewed vntounto thee after a more fit manner, and with leſſe danger of the infant. Nowe if that ſame ſimple waſhing ſhoulde bee inſtituted in the place of that bloody cutting of the foreſkinne, thou wouldeſt ſure preferre this condition before the other. And the ſame reaſon is there of thoſe ſlayne Sacrifices, which were both labourſom and coſtly. And concerning thoſe ſame miraculous wonders, to wit, of Manna falling from Heauen, and the water flowing foorth of the rocke, theſe are to be rehearſed, in the number of thoſe ſame figures which were once ſhewed, & not amongſt the Sacramentes which are perpetual, againſt which our Sacraments are not to be ſet, but the trueth perfourmed in Chriſte himſelfe giuen vntounto vsus.
Queſtion.
I vnderſtand that which thou ſayeſt, to wit, that the more ſimple the proportion is, the more playne the worde is, whereby the ſignification it ſelf is expreſſed, the more excellent is our condition then our fathers. But notwithſtanding it ſeemeth that that ſame Analogie of the old Sacraments is more playne.
Anſweare.
Neither doeſt thou in this point vnderſtand what thou ſaieſt. For in very deed in circūciſion thou ſeeſt nothing but the cutting of of the foreſkin: that is to ſay, thou ſeeſt one onelyonly part of the benefite of Chriſte ſhadowed, And yet neyther ought the olde man onelyonly too bee aboliſhed, but alſo the newe man too bee borne in vsus: neyther that onelie too be taken away which offended God, but alſo that righteouſnes to be geuen wherein he is delighted. Now the very water of baptiſme and the rites themſelues, doe they not declare eyther benefite muche more playner vntoo vsus? And ſo the difference alſo of our Fathers, feaſtes and of ours, is muche more euident. Thou wilt ſaye that fleſhe doth more expreſly repreſent fleſh then bread: and the ſlaying of a ſacrifice the ſlaying of Chriſt: admyt it. But to what end is Chriſt ſlayne vntounto me, vnles I be a partaker of him? Surely no more then dainties ſet afore mee, whereof notwithſtandyng I ſhal not eate. Therfore our Sacraments, that firſt parte not altogether pretermitted, but yet leſſe curiouſly ſignified, of which we are fully perſuaded in the hiſtory of the Goſpell, doe ſet as it were liuely before our eyes, that ſame other principall parte. For in very deede the vſe of bread, is muche more to the nouriſhment of this lyfe, then the vſe of fleſh: and foraſmuch as the life is in the blood, and the Fathers were reſtrayned from all vſe of blood, which nowe wee are no leſſe commaunded to drinke in the wyne Sacramentally, then ſpiritually to eate fleſhe in the bread: who ſeeth not that our Sacramentes doe excell thoſe ſame olde ones, euen in the very ſignes and ſacramentall rytes?
74. Queſtion.
Yet there remaineth another doubt, howe it ſhoulde come to paſſe, that the humayne nature of Chriſt, not yet exiſting in deede, ſhoulde for all that be the thing ſignified of the olde Sacramentes, and ſo indeede that it ſhoulde be truely communicated vntounto the Fathers.
Anſweare.
What thinkeſt thou therefore that the Sacraments of the olde fathers ſignified? For neyther doe I thinke that thou doſt agree vntounto them, who wil hauehave thē to be certaine reſemblances ioyned onelyonly vntounto earthly promiſes.
Queſtion.
Surely I conſent not vntounto that vngodlines, which transformeth the people of God into a ſtye of Hogges. But I aske whether they thinke rightly enough, who thinke thoſe ſame giftes in Chriſt beſtowed vppon the Church (which if it lacke it cānot be a partaker of euerlaſting life) to bee promiſed and giuen alſo in the Sacramentes of the olde fathers: but notwithſtanding, thoſe were not yet giuen forth which as yet were not.
Anſweare.
Surely thou doeſt wonderfully mollifie the harde opinion of theſe men. But I doubt not too ſay with the Apoſtle, that they did truely and indeed eate the ſame meate that we doe, and dranke the ſame drinke, to witte, euen Chriſt himſelfe1. Cor. 10. 3. 4. GOD and man.
Queſtion.
Howe ſo?
Anſweare.
Firſt, becauſe the Apoſtle plainely ſpeaketh ſo.
Queſtion.
Yea, but the Apoſtle ſaieth not in ſuch plaine woordes, that the Fathers did eate the ſame meate that we eate, or dranke the ſame drinke that wee doe, but rather that they did eate the ſame amongeſt themſelues, albeeit with a farre other effecte: as at this day aſwell the Godly as the vngodly, are partakers of the ſame Sacramēts, but ſome to ſaluation, and otherſome to iudgement.
Anſweare.
This Sophiſticall ſtartinghole is confuted by foure reaſons. Firſte, becauſe that Argument of Sainte Paule were not ſtrong enough, if the Sacramentes ſhoulde bee made vnequall in ſubſtaunce and in verie deede. Agayne, becauſe the Apoſtle pronounceth in playne and euident woordes that this meate it ſelfe, and this drinke is Chriſt. Thirdly, becauſe hee chaungeth the very names of the olde Sacramentes and of the newe, attributing the newe vntoo the olde, that hee may declare that ſame thing too bee both in the thing ſignified, and in the vſe. Fourthly, that thing playnely appeareth by the expreſſe woordes as well of others as alſo of Auguſtine, in the 45. treatiſe vppon Iohn, and in his Booke of the profite of repentaunce, the 102.Iohn. 1. 29. 1. Cor. 5. 7. Epiſtle and elſewhere. But nowe if this thing agree vntoo the Figures, muche rather is it too bee thought too agree, vntounto the Sacraments which are perpetuall and which are appoynted to ſignifie this one thing alone. In which ſenſe Iohn the Baptiſt ſayde, Beholde the Lambe of God which taketh away the ſinnes of the worlde: & Paule, Chriſt our Paſſeouer, is offered vp.
75. Queſtion.
But what if I ſhoulde except that all theſe things ſignifie nothing elſe but the onelyonly efficacie or vertue of Chriſt to come?
Anſwere.
Yea, but his efficacie dependeth as wel of thoſe things which Chriſt ſhould ſuffer for our cauſe, as of Chriſt himſelf. Why therefore ſhouldeſt thou now bee more offended, when I ſay that the very humane nature of Chriſt it ſelfe, albeit then it were not, notwithſtanding that it was truely and indeede geuen vntoo the Fathers in the Sacramentes and ſealed vppe in them: then that the Fathers were iuſtified and in very deed ſanctified in ſpirite, by the righteouſnes of his fleſhe which yet was not borne. For this is the whole ſumme of the benifites of Chriſte. Furthermore when thou thinkeſt that the fathers were made partakers of thoſe fruites which flowe vntoo vsus out of the fleſhe of Chriſte (or out of Chriſte accordyng to the fleſhe) ſhutting out that ſame pertaking of Chriſte himſelfe and of thoſe thinges which he afterwardes ſuffered for our ſake, thou doeſt euen as if reaſoning of this ſame bodily life, thou wouldeſt hauehave them too bee nouriſhed with meate, who notwithſtanding doe not in any ſort receiue the ſubſtance of meats.
76. Queſtion.
What therefore in ſumme ſayeſt thou, is to be determined concerning this matter.
Anſweare.
To witte, that both before God himſelfe promiſing, and before the eyes of our fayth Ieſus Chriſte was alwayes preſent, and alſo the whole myſterye of performing our ſaluatiō: the wc he in very deed beſtowed vponupon all beleeuers, & al beleeuers as wel in the ſimple word, as in the Sacramēts added to the word, truely and effectually embraced. ForIohn. 8. 56. Abraham with the eyes of faith ſaw the day of the Lorde, which is a ſubſiſting of thinges which yet were not, that is, to which now after a certayne ſort thoſe thinges exiſte, which in verie deede are not. Notwithſtanding I graunt the thing it ſelfe, that is to ſay, that Chriſt himſelfe was not in act geuē vntounto them according too the fleſhe, or (as they ſpeake) indeed but by right onelyonly.
Queſtion.
But what meaneth this thing?
Anſwere.
I wil ſpeake therefore more plainly, and now I ſay in deede, that Chriſt geuen with all his giftes was both ſignified by the ſimple worde, and in the ſacramentes of the new Teſtament, and offered vntounto vsus, to be ſpiritually by faith as wee hauehave ſayde, layde holde vppon, too righteouſneſſe, ſanctification, and euerlaſting life, & that the Fathers had right to the ſelfe ſame Chriſt that was to be borne, and to all his giftes, bothe by the ſimple word & alſo by the promiſes added to the ſame word: & yt therefore the fathers were euē then truely accompted the mēbers of Chriſt that was to bee borne, through the power of the ſame ſpirite & by the ſame faith, & likewiſe were indeed truely iuſtified & ſanctified in him to come: to conclude that duplicate page duplicate page theyr condition differeth from ours, not indeed: but as they ſpeak in the ſcholes, according to more and leſſe. For Chriſt is one, & the ſame things which he hath doone for our ſake are the ſame which wee looke for from him, and our faith is the ſame whether it reſpect things to come, or thoſe things that yet are not, or thoſe thinges that are already paſt.
77. Queſtion
When I conſider the maner of ſpeeches which belong vntoo the Sacraments, mee thinkes that I find ſomewhat to obiect againſt thee, touching thoſe things that thou haſt ſpoken, of the ſignification of the ſignes & of the thing ſignified, and alſo as touching that which thou haſt intreated of our partaking with Chriſt.
Anſweare.
Thoſe Phraſes of ſpeech not onelyonly Sacramentall but alſo figuratiue are partly proper, and partly borrowes.
78. Queſtion.
Which are proper?
Anſweare.
Thoſe be proper, which diſtinctly attribute that too the ſigne, which belongeth to the ſigne, and that to the thing, which belongeth to the thing: as when Circumciſion is called the ſigne of the couenant. Gen. 17. 11. Alſo the ſigne and ſeale of ye righteouſnes of faith. Ro. 4. 11. And the blood of the Lambe, the ſigne. Exo. 12. 13. And the ſabboth, the ſigne of calling too memory the creation of the world: & ſealing the peculiar cōſecration of the people of Iſrael. Exod. 31. 13. 17. And thoſe ſame twoo cenſures, a ſigne calling intoo their remembraunce that ſame conſpiracie of Dathan & Abiron. Num. 16 38. So the outward miniſtery of man, conſidered a parte from the inwarde, is ſaid to be nothing. 1. Cor. 3. 7. So the outwarde baptiſme of water, is properly diſtinguiſhed frō the inwarde efficacie of the ſpirit. 1. Pet. 3. 21.
Queſtion.
But I finde in no place, that this ſame worde [Signe] is attributed too Baptiſme or too the Lordes ſupper.
Anſweare.
Why then, denye them too bee Sacramentes. For Sacramentes vndoubtedly are ſignes. Yea, and the Papiſts themſelues, do grant that the ſubſtance of water and the Sacramentall rites of Baptiſme are ſignes: & in that ſame Sacrament of theirs of the Aultar, they do at leaſt appoynt the formes for ſignes. Further, the thing it ſelfe is moſt euident, that that is true which Irenaeus witneſſeth (that I may paſſe ouer the other fathers) that they conſiſt of one earthly & of an heauenly mater, whereof it muſt needes bee that that be the ſigne of this.
79. Queſtion.
And what are thoſe ſame Sacramentall or figuratiue formes?
Anſweare.
Firſt of all, they are thoſe thinges to which the name of the Element is attributed too the thing ſignified, as when the Lambe is ſaid to be the paſſeouer. Exod. 12. 11.
Queſtion.
And yet there be ſome which ſay, that the Peſach or Paſſeouer is properly ſpoken of the paſſing it ſelfe.
Anſweare.
Go to, be it ſo. But yet verely the paſſyng it ſelfe can not be eaten, therefore they muſt in that place at the leaſt graunt, that the Lambe it ſelfe is called the paſſeouer, where the paſſeouer is ſayde to be prepared & eaten. So Chriſt is called of Iohn the Lambe of GOD, and is ſayde of Saint Paule to bee the paſſeouer. 1. Cor. 5. 7. Chriſtians are one bread. 1. Cor. 10. 17.
80. Queſtion.
Theſe thinges verely ſatisfie mee. Go forwarde, I pray thee declare vntounto me the other ſortes of ſacramental ſpeeches.
Anſweare.
The other ſorte is directly contrary to this, whereby the name of the thing it ſelfe is attributed to the Element. So the ſtone ſet vp by Iacob, is called Bethel. Gen. 28. 22. So the ſeuen kyne and the ſeuen eares are ſeuen yeares. Gen. 41. 27. So the name of Iehouah in innumerable places is attributed to the Arke of the couenaunt, yea and to the very Altar of Moſes. Exod. 17. 15. So by the name of the tongue of Canaan is vnderſtoode the profeſſion of pure religion. Eſai. 19. 18. So the name of the holy Ghoſt is attributed to the Doue. Iohn 1. 33. To bee ſhorte, ſo the Rocke was Chriſt.
Queſtion.
Yea, but that ſame bodily Rocke was not ſaide to bee Chriſte, but that ſame ſpirituall Rocke.
Anſweare.
I knowe very well that ſame ſophiſticall ſtartinghole, as though forſooth this were ſpoken of the thing it ſelfe, and not of the ſigne. But what will theſe fooliſhe Sophiſters anſweare, if I ſhoulde aſke them, whether Paul yet ment not that ſame Rocke, whereout that ryuer of waters flowed? Surely they coulde anſweare nothing whereby their ſophiſtrie ſhould not be eaſily conuinced. For they muſt needes come to this poynte, that they muſt confeſſe, that the name of ſpirituall Rocke, was in reſpecte of that very naturall Rocke attributed to Chriſt in reſpect of the bodily Rocke, (that is as they them ſelues interprete it) conſidered ſpiritually and ſo far forth as it was a figure. Therfore they ſnarle them ſelues in their owne ſnares, or els they muſt graunt that Chriſte was called the Rocke, becauſe he was ſhadowed by a ſpiritual ſignificatiō taken from the ſame Rocke. But what will they doe with theſe wordes of Saint Auguſtine, in his 45. Treatiſe vppon Iohn? Loe the ſignes changed, Fayth remaining, there Chriſt is the Rocke, to vsus Chriſt is that ſame that is ſet foorth vponupon the Altar: and if thou looke vppon the viſible fourme, it is another thing: but if vponupon the ſenſible ſignification, they dranke the ſame ſpiritual drinke. And in the 102. Epiſtle, ſome tyme the thyng which ſignifieth, taketh the name of that thing which it ſignifieth. For ſo the rocke was Chriſt, becauſe it ſignifieth Chriſt. To conclude the ſame interpreteth the ſpiritual Rocke mentioned in the 77. Pſalme: not Chriſt him ſelfe (as they doe) but ſuche a Rocke as ſhoulde ſignifie ſome ſpiritual thing.
Queſtion.
Therefore proceede on.
Anſweare.
So to conclude, that bread is ſayde to bee the body giuen for vsus: and that ſame cuppe to be the blood ſhead for vsus.
Queſtion.
But who doth ſo expound this?
Anſweare.
Amongeſt the reſt, Theodoret in his Eraniſta by expreſſe wordes, wherof we ſhall entreate more at large in his proper place.
81. Queſtion.
And is there any more?
Anſweare.
The third kinde of figuratiue ſacramentall ſpeache is that, whereby the effect of the thing ſignified is attributed to the outwarde ſignes or inſtrumentes. So it is ſayde that the tree of life was planted in Paradiſe, and the tree of the knowledge both of good and euill. And yet was neyther life nor knowledge in thoſe ſame trees, as if thou ſhouldeſt cal a tree the Ague, which either cauſeth an Ague, or els driueth it away: but thoſe ſame trees were onelyonly the effectuall ſignes of theſe ſame effectes. By the ſame figure Circumciſion is called the couenant whereof onelyonly it was a ſigne, as God him ſelf expoundeth it. Gen. 17. 11. & 14. And that ſame cupp is called the newe Teſtament in his blood. Luke 22. 20. So Baptiſme is called the waſhing of regeneration. Tit. 3. 5. So the Church is ſayde to bee purged by the waſhing of water, Epheſ. 5. 26. So the outward worde which being onelyonly the Chariot as it were of the diuine power, is in many places ſayd to be the word of life and the incorruptible ſeede: and to it is attributed, both clenſing and ſanctification. So the ſacrifices, are in many places called attonements, when notwithſtanding the very blood of Goates and Oxen cannot ſanctifie any. So alſo the prieſts themſelues are ſayde to ſanctifie and to make an attonement for ſinnes. Leuit. 16. 30. When as it onelyonly belongeth vntounto God to forgiue ſinnes and to make cleane. So the Miniſters of the Goſpell are ſayde to binde and to loſe, Matth. 18. 18. And to forgiue ſinnes. Iohn. 20. 25. yea alſo to ſaue them ſelues & to ſaue others. 1. Tim. 4. 16. Of which matter if it pleaſe thee, thou mayeſt ſee Auguſtine in his booke of queſtions vppon Leuiticus, Chapter 84.
82. Queſtion.
Is there yet remayning any other kinde of ſacramentall figures?
Anſweare.
There remayneth the fourth, quyte contrary to that ſame third kynde, wherby it is brought to paſſe, on the contrary that that which is proper vntounto the fignes is drawen vntounto the thing ſignified. And hereof commeth that ſame inwarde Circumciſion, or, of the hearte. So the fleſhe or the bodie of the ſonne of man, is ſaid to be eaten and his blood to be dronke, which beyng bodily actions, can not bee vnderſtoode otherwyſe then improperly of the thing ſignified, that is to ſay, of Chriſt him ſelfe, offered either in the ſimple worde or in the Sacramentes, leaſt as Saint Auguſtine very well ſayeth, a foule and haynous thyng, to wyt, the ſauadge and barbarous eatyng of mans fleſhe ſeeme to bee commaunded. And heereof come theſe ſame vſuall maner of ſpeeches ſo often in the Fathers, wherein it is ſayd that the body of our Lorde lyeth vppon the Altar, yea alſo that it is ſeene, handled, goeth into the mouth, is made, falleth vponupon the grounde, is conſumed.
83. Queſtion.
Therefore makeſt thou it a metaphoricall bodie, and a metaphoricall Supper?
Anſweare.
In deede ſuche are the filthy ſlaunders of certaine men, which we wil confute in their proper place: For nowe I entreate generally of the Sacraments. In meane tyme knowe this, that wee neyther fayne any other bodie to Chriſt then that ſame true body giuen for vsus; nor tranſforme that ſame moſt holy action into thoſe ſame monſtrous Chimeres, but onelyonly wee ſay this (followyng the proportion of Fayth) that that ſame very partakyng of Chriſt him ſelfe, which is altogether of the mynd and of Faith, (for this is the meate of the mynd, & not of the belly) is not properly, but metaphorically declared, by thoſe ſame bodily actions of eating and drinking.
84. Queſtion.
Then is it all one with thee, to beleeue, and ſpiritually to eate Chriſt?
Anſweare.
Thou cauſeſt me yet againe to ſtray from my purpoſe. If thou take to beleeue, for the very action of fayth it ſelf, I conſent vntounto thee. But if thou take it for the very habite of fayth, then euen like as thou doeſt diſtinguiſh the teethe the inſtrument of eating, from the eating it ſelfe: ſo it muſt needes bee that thou diſcerne fayth it ſelfe, from that apprehenſion of Chriſt through fayth, which is the ſpirituall eating.
Queſtion.
Proceede on.
Anſweare.
I hauehave nowe finiſhed thoſe thinges which belong vntounto thoſe ſame Sacramentall fourmes of ſpeaking, aſwell thoſe that are proper, as thoſe that are figuratiue.
85. Queſtion.
But when thou ſhalt ſay that the Sacramentes were added vntounto the ſimple word, to the end, the more plainly to ſhew foorth the promiſes, many men meruaile that theſe figuratiue ſpeeches are vſed in the Sacramentes, in which the ſpeech ought rather to be moſt proper and moſt plaine, leaſt any ſhould be deceiued.
Anſweare.
Here I pray thee marke what bold raſhneſſe the ſpirite of error hath in ſclaundering, and what power it hath (when it pleaſeth God) in perſwading. For theſe men affirme, that the figuratiue ſpeeches are more obſcure then thoſe that are proper: but contrarywiſe they themſelues alſo teach & giuegive manie preceptes concerning this matter, that Oratours doe verie well vſe figures, not too darken, but to ſet out and make more playne their ſpeeche. Now they are verie well vſed, when they both adorne that that wee woulde hauehave ſpoken with a certaine dignitie and grace, and better infixe it in the mindes of the hearers, then if any man ſhould vſe a plaine and ſimple ſpeeche. Now foraſmuch as the Sacraments are therefore inſtituted that they may leade our vnderſtanding too an other thing, which by Gods ordinance they ſignifie from that which they are by nature: or rather, that I may vſe the words of S. Auguſtine againſt Maximinus. Lib. 3. cap, 18. that wee marke, not what they are, but what they ſet out and ſhewe, becauſe they are ſignes of thinges ſhewing one thing and ſignifying another: who ſeeth not that the nature and vſe of the Sacramentes is much better fixed in the minde of the hearer, when the ſignes are ſayd to bee the thing it ſelfe that they ſignifie?
Let vsus ſet downe for example ſake, that we may dwell ſtill vponupon the former example that the Maior or Magiſtrate of a Towne or Citie of whom poſſeſſion is giuen vntounto thee of ſome houſe deliuering thee a key vponupon this condition, and ſpeaking vntounto thee after this manner, this keye is that ſame houſe ſtanding in that place, which I deliuer into thy handes, for to bee vſed and enioyed of thee: woulde not this ſpeeche much more confirme thee, then if hee ſhoulde ſay, this keye bee a ſigne vntoo thee, that I put thee into the poſſeſſion of that houſe? Now this reaſon is ſet out by Theodoret. in his Eraniſta in theſe woords, Chriſt would (ſayth he) that they that would bee partakers of theſe diuine myſteries (for he ſpeaketh of the Supper of the Lorde) ſhould take heede not to conſider the nature of the thinges which they ſee, but through this change of names (to witte whereby it is brought to paſſe, that the name of the thing ſignified is giuen vntoo the ſigne) they ſhoulde giuegive credite vntoo that change which is wrought by grace: That is, they ſhoulde conſider that thing, not as it is by nature, but howe by Gods commaundement it is vſed too ſignifie, that thing. And Auguſtine in the fiftieth ſeauen Queſtion vppon Leuiticus, Thinges (ſayth he) which ſignifie ſomewhat, are woont to bee ſignified by the name of that thing which they ſignifie. Hence is that ſaying, the rock was Chriſt. For he ſayd not the rock ſignified Chriſt, but as it were that he was that, that in very deed he was not by ſubſtance, but by ſignification. But of theſe thinges more in another place, where wee will ſo intreate of ſet purpoſe of the right vnderſtanding of the woordes of the inſtitution of the Lordes Supper, that we will alſo confute the contrary expoſitions.
86. Queſtion.
I would therefore thou ſhouldeſt ſet foorth vntounto me what the vſe is of theſe ſame fourmes of ſpeeche concerning Sacraments ſo expounded of thee.
Anſweare.
We are by this meanes taught, that we attribute neither leſſe nor more to the Sacramentes, then is meete. Now they attribute leſſe vntounto thē, thā is meet, who wil hauehave them only to be certaine bare remēbrances, ſhutting out a dores both the giuing & receiuing of the thing it ſelfe: the which opinion is herein taken away, becauſe that the name of the ſigne is attributed to the thing ſignified, or the name of the effect it ſelf to the ſigne it ſelfe, and againe the name of the ſigne to the thing it ſelfe ſignified or too the effect thereof, as wee hauehave ſhewed by thoſe examples alledged. They alſo attribute muche leſſe then theſe to the Sacraments, who wil onelyonly hauehave them to bee badges of outwarde profeſſion: which opinion is altogether vngodly, and by the ſame reaſon is ouerthrowen. Nowe wee are taught againe by theſe proper kynde of ſpeaches to attribute no more vntounto the Sacraments then is meete, & to ſhunne that miſerable bondage (as Sainct Auguſtine ſpeaketh more then once) whereby it is brought to paſſe, that the ſignes are taken for the thinges ſignified in his third Booke of Chriſtian doctrine. Chap. 5. and 7.
87. Queſtion.
But I pray thee, howe many Sacramentes thinkeſt thou to bee inſtituted for the vniuerſall Chriſtiā church?
Anſweare.
Two, Baptiſme, and the Lordes Supper.
Queſtion.
There are which rehearſe manye moe, yea and that amongeſt thoſe which hauehave departed from the Antichriſtian Romayne Church.
Anſweare.
I graunt it: but yet the Papiſtes gayne nothing, which take this occaſion to ſlaunder vsus, ſeeing the moſt Papiſtical Diuines hauehave not yet agreed, concernyng the number of ſacraments, but amongſt vsus there is no ſtryfe in the matter it ſelfe, as we ſhall ſhewe in his place.
Queſtion.
Let vsus agree vppon this, howe farre I am to proceede in demaunding.
Anſwere.
Although this were rather the parte of the aſker, then of the anſwearer, yet notwithſtandyng foraſmuche as it ſo pleaſeth thee, I ſignifie vntounto thee that I am content that the handlyng of the contrary ſentence being differred, thou heare what ſeemeth vntounto mee concernyng eueryevery one of theſe queſtions: ſo notwithſtandyng that I may anſweare ſhortly, as the matter requireth to the cō trary reaſons, ſo farre forth as we may waye all and ſingular thinges, whiche are ſayd for the confirmation of the contrary opinions.
88. Queſtion.
Admyt that wee hauehave but onelyonly two ſuche Sacramentes, I demaund of thee in the firſt place, what Baptiſme is.
Anſweare.
This woorde properly declareth dipping into the water, & by conſequent waſhyng away: of which ſorte many were inſtituted in the lawe, Hebr. 9. 10. to whiche were added afterwardes the pharaſaical waſhings, wherof mention is made in the 7. of Marke, verſ 4. Now by the figure *This figure is a chaunging or putting of a neare name in ſignification for the naturall name it ſelfe.Antonomaſia it is takē for the Sacrament, by which wee are are openly profeſſed to Chriſt. But by tranſlation it ſetteth foorth the afflictions of the godly and ſome greate and greeuous calamities, yea and the croſſe it ſelfe, as it is taken. Luke. 12. 50. peraduenture fetching the Metaphor from thence, for that in many places of the Pſalmes eſpecially are vnderſtoode by the name of waters and of gulphes, miſeries, wherewith a man is as it were ſwalowed vp. To be ſhort, it is taken for the powring foorth of the giftes of the holy Ghoſt, as Acts. 1. 5. and for the doctrine of Iohn who firſt baptiſed: as Acts 18. 25. & 19. 3.
89. Queſtion
Howe therefore doeſt thou define baptiſme taken for the firſt Sacramēt of the Church of Chriſt?
Anſweare.
I define it to be an holy action commaunded of Chriſte to the Church, in which by a fitte proportion of ſignes, we doe ſpiritually and through Fayth after a certayne ſorte put on Chriſte himſelf, with all his giftes neceſſary to ſaluation, and are therein waſhed with him, and dye with him, are buryed and ryſe agayne, and by which our mutuall fellowſhyp in Chriſt is ratified.
90. Queſtion.
And which are theſe ſignes?
Anſweare.
The Elementall ſigne is water. But the Sacramentall rytes are three: the dipping into the water, the remayning in the water, and the commyng out of the water agayne.
91. Queſtion.
But there are many moe Elements, and many moe rytes in Baptiſme vſed in olde tyme.
Anſweare.
I anſweare out of Cyprian, that we muſt not marke what any hath done before vsus, or what any hauehave thought meet to bee done: but what Chriſte who was before all hath done firſt him ſelfe, and hath deliuered vntounto others to bee done. But of theſe thinges wee will entreate heereafter when wee ſhall come to the confutation of the contrary opinions.
92. Queſtion.
What repreſenteth the water, and what is the analogie or proportion thereof, with the thing ſignified?
Anſweare.
It ſignifieth the very blood of Chriſt, and by the figure Synechdoche whole Chriſt him ſelfe, who by the ſheadyng foorth of his blood, hath both waſhed away that ſame naturall malice and corruptiō that was in vsus, & hath ſatiſfied for our ſinnes. Now the proportion of water beyng an Element ordeined for the waſhyng away of filthineſſe, doeth of it ſelfe agree with the blood of Chriſt, by the ſheadding forth wherof onelyonly, all the filthineſſes of ſinne are waſhed away.
93. Queſtion.
What are thoſe ſame three rytes or ceremonyes?
Anſweare.
To wyt, that we muſt be as it were dipped by a ſpirituall power and manner, in the very blood of the Sonne of GOD: by the force whereof that ſame waſſhyng awaye of ſinnes by little and little is brought to paſſe, that ſo at the length we may go away cleanſed: as they that are defiled ſpecially with thoſe ſame ſpottes which cannot eaſily bee waſhed of, they muſt bee ſo long waſhed with water, vntill they receiue their firſt cleaneſſe.
94. Queſtion.
Forſomuch as that alſo was ſignified by the purifiynges of the law, and that ſame benefite alſo was truely perfourmed in Chriſte nowe too bee borne, too them who lawfully and rightly did vſe the ſame, what neede was there that they ſhoulde bee aboliſhed, that baptiſme might bee appointed in their place?
Anſweare.
Firſt it behoued that they ſhould be aboliſhed; that he might be beleued to be come already whō they ſhadowed too come afterwardes. Againe foraſmuche as they were additions vntounto the Sacrifices for ſinnes, they ought too bee aboliſhed together with thē. Laſtly, their repetition or often repentance did ſhew their imperfection, and therefore it muſt needes bee that another waſhing muſt come in place which ſhould not be done againe too one perſon, and which is the Sacrament of that waſhing which was once performed for euer.
95. Queſtion.
But what thinkeſt thou of that ſame ancient ſprinkling of the blood?
Anſweare.
I thinke that that did more groſſely expreſſe & repreſent the blood of Chriſt to come, but yet leſſe fitly, foraſmuch as blood doth not take away ſpottes, but rather doth ſpotte thinges that are already ſpotted.
96. Queſtion.
What doeſt thou meane by the worde [of putting on?
Anſweare.
The Apoſtle ſo ſpeaketh that he may ſhewe that that ſame power of the ſpirite is ioyned to baptiſme, whereby it is brought too paſſe that wee are as it were knit & engraffed into Chriſt himſelfe, ſo as we growe vp into one bodie together with him which is the chiefeſt effect of baptiſme. Gal. 3. ver. 27. And certainely it ſeemeth vntounto me that this ſame manner of ſpeaking ſprang from hence, that thoſe that were growne in yeeres beyng to be baptiſed ſhould put of theyr Garmentes that eyther they might put on others: or elſe beyng become newe men, might take them agayne. To which Analogie or proportion the ſame Apoſtle hath reſpect. Col. 3. 9. Ephe. 4. 22.
97. Queſtion.
What doeſt thou ſignifie by the word [of waſhing?
Anſweare.
The double effect of this putting on, one, whereby this naturall corruption which Paule calleth ſinne, ſinning is aboliſhed in vsus: the other whereby the fruites thereof, that is to ſay ſinnes, are forgeuen vsus, or rather are not imputed, the puniſhment which we deſerued for them, beyng ſatiſfied by Chriſt: & alſo his obedience beyng put in the place of them, whereby he fulfilled the lawe for vsus.
98. Queſtion
But too what ende are wee ſayde too die, to bee buryed, and too riſe againe into the death, buriall and reſurrection of Chriſt?
Anſweare.
By that meanes the Apoſtle himſelf beyng the Author. Rom. 6. 4. &c. is declared both the proportion and effect of thoſe ſame Sacramentall rites. For ſo we are taught to place our whole fayth in Chriſt alone, who died, was buried & roſe agayne from death too euerlaſting life for vsus, inaſmuche as hee is our brother. The dipping therefore into water ſetteth before our eyes that ſame bottō leſſe gulf of Gods iudgement, by which for our ſinnes layde vppon him, Chriſt is as it were ſwallowed vppe. The remayning in the water, in what ſorte or howe ſhorte ſoeuer it be, doth as it were ſet him before our eyes to be looked vppon, holden in his Graue as it were, by the chaynes of death. But comming out of the water, is as it were a liuely picture of his victorie, whereby it came to paſſe that beyng dead hee ouercame death, and beeyng buried, hee ouercame corruption, that we our ſelues alſo beyng engraffed into him by faith, (of which engraffting alſo Baptiſme is a pleadge) wee are become partakers of ye ſame power, wherby he performed all thoſe things firſte in himſelfe.
99. Queſtion.
But yet that ſame old man, to wit, corruption was not in him: neyther the fruits therof, that is to ſay, ſinnes.
Anſweare.
In very deed none of both theſe were in him, becauſe he was voyde of al vice, & moſt holy euen frō the very momēt of his conception. For hee came to take away ſinne. Yet notwithſtanding he had both thoſe things vpō him, taking mortality & all infirmities brought into our nature through ſinne, except that ſinne it ſelf, and to be ſhort the puniſhment laid vponupon him, whereby wee are reconciled. Nowe theſe rites doe teache that all theſe thinges are communicated vntoo vsus in this Sacrament, our corruption dying in vsus, beyng planted as it were intoo the death of Chriſte himſelfe, and our ſinnes alſo dying with him: that ſame ſtay anſwearing Chriſtes buriall which is betweene the dipping in and the comming out, liuely paynteth out vntounto vsus the proceeding of the power and benefite of Chriſtes death by little & little declaring it ſelf in vsus. Finally, there foloweth the cōming out of the water agayne, ſignifiyng our newe ſtate and condition, the firſt beyng aboliſhed, and aunſwearing to the reſurrection of Chriſt: who as he roſe agayne intoo euerlaſting life, death and mortalitie beyng ouercome and ſwallowed vp in the very graue, ſo at the length hee will woorke the ſelfe ſame thinges in vsus, whereof we hauehave now receiued the earneſt and pledge.
100. Queſtion.
Now I vnderſtande why baptiſme is called the waſhing of regeneration, why we are baptiſed for the forgiueneſſe of ſinnes, why the church is ſaid to be cleanſed by the waſhing of water, and to be ſhort, why baptiſme is called of Auguſtine, the Sacrament of faith, and of Tertullian, the ſealing of faith. But yet I vnderſtand not that which thou diddeſt adde, concerning that mutual conſociation and felowſhip which we hauehave in Chriſt.
Anſweare.
This alſo is an excellent effecte of baptiſme, but yet a ſecondarie effect, to wit, depending vponupon that ſame former. For that ſame forme of baptizing intoo one and the ſelfe ſame Chriſt, doth both ſeparate Chriſtians from al other men, and alſo ioyne them together, as it were one bodie vnderunder one and the ſelfe ſame heade amongeſt themſelues, as the Apoſtle ſpeaketh. 1. Cor. 12. 13.
101. Queſtion.
I woulde alſo knowe ſomewhat of thoſe correſpondent figures of baptiſme, And firſt what that word foreign meaneth.
Anſweare.
A foreign are called figures correſpō dent to figures, the name of figures beeyng largely taken, wherby is declared that ſome Sacrament is not otherwiſe properly ſo called (that is an holy action commaunded to the whole Churche as a certayne ordinary thing, which is the ſeale of the promiſe of euerlaſting life) but ſome certayn thing that God hath ſimply appoynted alſo for this end, that he might ſignifie ſome other thing to be fulfilled in the newe Teſtament. So in that Noah was ſaued out of the waters, and by the waters themſelues in the Arke, it was a Type or figure of Baptiſme, wherby the Churche, ſhut vp as it were in Chriſte, is ſaued. So Iſrael paſſing through the Sea, and comming ſafe thorowe a Cloude from Heauen ſhrowding them, it repreſented the Myſterye of the ſame Baptiſme.
102. Queſtion.
But why doeſt thou vſe the worde [of ſealing.
Anſweare.
That I may meete with the ſlaunders of them, that ſay that we take baptiſme, onelyonly as a token, or rather onelyonly as it were a difference, whereby Chriſtians are diſtinguiſhed from them that bee no Chriſtians: forasmuche as this ſacrament ſucceeded Circumciſiō, which was not onelyonly a ſigne, but alſo a ſeale of righteouſnes by fayth.
103. Queſtion
I woulde therefore thou ſhouldeſt ſhewe vntounto mee particularly the cauſes, the partes and the effectes of Baptiſme.
Anſweare.
The efficient cauſe is Chriſt. The outward & viſible matter is water wt the ſacramental rites: the inwarde & inuiſible matter is Chriſte himſelfe, with his gifts. The outward forme is the maner of adminiſtration it ſelfe, ordeined of Chriſt himſelfe: the inwarde forme the baptiſme of the holy Ghoſt, the eſſencial parts are the ſignes & the things ſignified. The whole partes, is the Element; Chriſt himſelf with his gifts, the action and the worde.
104. Queſtion.
But what is this worde?
Anſweare.
Teach yee al, baptiſing them in the name of the father, the Sonne, & the holy Ghoſt. Mat. 28. 19. Preach ye Goſpel to eueryevery creature: he that ſhall beleeue and be baptized ſhalbe ſaued. Mark. 16. 15. & 16.
105. Queſtion
What meaneth [in the name?
Anſweare.
Hereby is declared, that Baptiſme is a ſolemne vowe, whereby hee that is baptized doeth wholly vowe himſelfe too one GOD in Trinity: alſo a ſolemne action in which GOD witneſſeth, that he receiueth him that is baptiſed intoo his owne hande, that in very deede this ſame fourme is as it were an Epicomie or Summarie of the whole Chriſtian faith, with the ſolempne ſealing thereof.
106. Queſtion.
And yet notwithſtanding it ſemeth that the Apoſtles changed ſomwhat in that ſame forme, as beyng ſayd to hauehave baptized in the name of Chriſt.
Anſweare.
By theſe woordes it is not ſhewed after what maner the Apoſtles baptized. For who can probably thinke that the Apoſtles in that expreſſe preſcription of our Maiſter, in euident and plaine woordes commaunded, did chaunge any thing at all: And it is moſt plaine throughout the whole Eccleſiaſticall Hyſtorie, that that forme was alwaies kept.