Display of Popish Practices, Slanders · Slander 3 · Argument 2 – Argument 4
The ſeconde Argument of the Sycophante to the thirde Slaunder.
They bring alſo many euident examples of the difference of ſufferance and wil, namelie out of the .20. Chapter of Ezechiel, where GOD after he had in many wordes vpbraided his people, bicauſe they would not obey his precepts, at the last he concludeth thus, Go ſerue you euerie one his dunghil God, ſeeing that you obey not me. As if he would ſaye this, I ſuffer you to followe your owne luſte, ſeeing you wil not obey my preceptes.
REFVTATION.
LOE thou ſtumbleſt againe at the ſame ſtone, and imagineſt monſters to thy ſelfe, whiche thou mayeſt withſtand, to the ende thou mayſt be thought ſome other Hercules. For bycauſe we ſay, as the truth is, that is, that God neyther againſt his will not idlely beholdeth, but willing, and alwayes iuſtlye, and wiſelye decréeing mens matters, doth, what ſoeuer he doth, commandeth, whatſoeuer he commaundeth, and ſuffereth, whatſoeuer he ſuffereth, bycauſe no outrage of the inſtruments can preiudice the wiſedome & iuſtice of God by any meanes: therevpon thou ſtreyght wayes gathereſt, that we intēd that whatſoeuer God willingly ſuffereth, that he ſimply & by it ſelfe ſhould allow. But ſeeing that, that withmany others, thou dreameſt waking, go too if it pleaſe thée, wraſtle with thine owne dreames, that all men maye know that this is not oure forgery. For we affirme, that God neuer willeth iniquitie, no not euen then, when for ſecrete cauſes, albeit yet for moſt iuſte cauſes, he letteth looſe the raines of the wicked, or giueth them to be Satans bondſlaues.
That which in reſpect of the inſtruments is iniquitie, in reſpecte of Gods iudgement, neyther doth he allowe it ſimplye, but foreign after a ſorte, and therefore it is permitted, which in another reſpect he condemneth and hateth, and worthyly puniſheth in the inſtruments: for it is a iuſt thing before God, that he puniſhe ſinne with ſinne, as we hauehave plentifully ſhewed out of the worde of God, and alſo out of Auguſtine a little before. Therefore Sycophant, albeit this place of Ezechiel were not otherwayes to be taken, than thou thinkeſt, yet it ſhoulde not make againſt vsus. For neither ſay we that Idolatry is acceptable to GOD, albeit by his iuſte iudgemente hée will, and alſo bringeth to paſſe by Satan and what ſoeuer inſtrumentes hée will, that thoſe who hauehave refuſed the trueth,Rom. 1.21. and further. ſhoulde embrace falſehoode, and finallye might breake out into whatſoeuer filthyneſſe. But all theſe good Sir, belong nothing to this place. And here alſo thou bewrayeſt thy paſſing groſſe ignoraunce. For neyther he that ſpeaketh ſo, as the Lorde doeth in thys place, doeth eyther commaunde or permitte any thyng, but rather with a moſt ſharpe ſcoffe, doeth vpbraide the falſehoode and vnthankefull mynde, that if it maye be, they whych are reproued may at the laſt with ſhame returne into the waye. The lyke kinde of ſpeaking the LORDE vſed, when Iudas euen nowe being athande, hée ſayde to his Diſciples ſléeping and in vayne, béeing ſo often warned to watche and pray, ſléepe, & take your reſte. For indéede it is ſo farre off, that he ſhoulde with this ſpéech perſmade thē to ſléepe, or giuegive thē leaue to ſléepe, that contrarily, he fiercely chideth, and wyth a moſte ſharpe reprehenſion awaketh them, with the ſight of the preſent peril, whereof he had in vaine admoniſhed them. Therefore when I weyed, this thyne Argument, I maruelled in good ſooth, that it was poſſible, that ſuch a rudeſbie and a man ſo ſottiſh, ſhouldſt vndertake to teach others.
The Sycophants third Argument to the thirde Slaunder.
This ſeemeth to be the ſame which he ſpake a little before in the ſame Chapter, bycauſe they hauehave refuſed mine ordinaunces, I hauehave giuen them precepts which be not good. But God gaue not to the Iſraelits preceptes that were not good, for all the preceptes of God be good. But bycauſe they refuſed the good preceptes of God, he left them: and they being lefte of God: fell headlong into euil preceptes, as that prodigall ſonne, hauing lefte his father, or rather beeing lefte of his father, fell into ryote: and as Paule teacheth, bycauſe men loued not the trueth God ſente them the ſpirite of erroure that they mighte beleeue lyes.
REFVTATION.
THAT which is reported of Balaam, yt is, yt he bleſſed Iſrael whō he was hired to curſe, the ſame I can affirme of thée, who defēdeſt our cauſe which thou haſt vndertoke to withſtand. For what is it to ſende yt ſpirite of error …or doſt thou thinke yt this ſheweth no other thing, thā to accompt as one forſaken? Or he yt ſendeth one for ſome certain cauſe, either ſendeth him againſt his wil, or condemneth nothing? but to what man yt is not mad ſhalt thou euer perſwade this? But we wil ſpeake of this in ye refutation of the next Argument. And that whiche thou trifleſt of the leauing of the prodigall ſonne, is nothing. For what, doſt thou thinke, that the ſonne was forſaken of his father, regarding nothing, or againſte his will? If none of both be true, ſurely he forſooke him willingly, nor dyd he caſt awaye all care of hym, but would at the laſte that he ſhoulde (as they ſaye) ſmell of his expences, and then he thought moſt of him, when he ſéemed to hauehave forſaken him, of the which thing we wyll ſpeake, in the depelling of the the ſixte Argumente. Therefore this doeth not make againſt vsus, but againſt thée, which ſeparateſt ſufferaunce from wil. But thou bewraieſt thy ſhameful ignoraunce in the explication of this place of Ezechiel. For to giuegive precepts that be not good, doth not ſhewe to lyue ſo as thou mayſt runne into euill preceptes: but the Lorde calleth euil preceptes, trybutes, burthens, lawes, & finally, whatſoeuer the conquering Chaldeis were to lay vponupon the captiues: As if the Lorde ſhould ſay, ye would not obey my moſt holy and iuſt commaundementes, but for this your infidelitie I wil ſeuerely puniſh you, for I wyl giuegive you to be ruled of others, who ſhall enioyne you, whatſoeuer moſt iniuſt, harde, and fylthy thyngs, & ſhall inforce you to performe them. This expoſition, if not out of the Latyn interpreters, yet truely thou mighteſt hauehave learned of the Hebrewes, except thou art wonte to contemne and deſpiſe all writers. But dothe not this your tradition declare that idle forſaking? Verily thou ſhalte neuer make any beléeue this, which hath neuer ſo ſuperficially ſéene the Prophetes: and this is no leſſe fooliſhe and doltiſh, than if thou ſhouldeſt ſaye yt men that be malefactours, conuict & contemned, are not of a willing magiſtrate deliuered to the hangman, but only forſaken.
The Sycophants fourth Argument to the thirde ſlaunder.
The like ſeemeth to be that of Amos in his 4. Chapter, Go to Bethell and ſinne, ſeeing that you louelove to do ſo. So at this day, bicauſe men woulde not obey God, who ſayeth that he willeth not ſinne, God hath ſuffered to ſtande out ſpirites of error, which may teach, that God willeth ſinne: that thoſe whiche woulde not obey the truth, may obey lyes.
THE REFVTATION.
I ſay again, that thou art a doltheade, which takeſt a moſt ſharpe vpbreading and rebuke for ſufferance. And I ſende thée againe to the Grammer ſchole, that thou maiſt learne there what is the force of the figure called Ironia, and howe manye ſortes there be accompted of it. And that whyche thou ceaſeſt not to tryfle of the ſpirite of errour, who can take it in good parte?Eze. 14.9. If a Prophete beyng deceyued, ſpeake the worde, I the Lorde hauehave ſeduced that Prophete, ſayeth the Lorde in Ezechiel.1. King. 21.22. And in an other place what ſayth the Lorde to the lying ſpirite? Thou ſhalte perſwade (ſayth he) and ouercome: goe out therefore and do ſo. And what witneſſeth Paul?2. Theſ. 2.11. For that (ſayth he) that they hauehave not receyued the louelove of the trueth, to the ende they mighte be ſaued, therefore GOD wyll ſende them ſtrong deluſions, that they maye belieue lyes. I praye thée, good man, aduiſe againe and againe with thy ſelfe diligentlye, he that ſendeth from him the executioner with certaine commauncementes, that he puniſhe with iuſte correction men that be conuicte malefactours and condemned, may he be ſayd only to forſake them, and not hymſelf rather willing and determyning to make ſtrong the executioners hande to their iuſt puniſhment; Al theſe, if thou knoweſt not, albeit of their owne nature be ſinnes, whiche God hateth & reuengeth, yet for as much as they are decréed of God, they are nothing elſe but puniſhmentes of ſinne. If thou belieneſt not Auguſtine,Againſt Iulian 3. booke. Chap. 3. who handeleth that Argument plentifullye and plainely againſt Iulianus, yet at the leaſte belieue Paule,Rom. 24.26.28. who manifeſtlye witneſſeth this thing, in thrée places of his Epiſtle to the Romanes. And whereas indirectly charging vsus, thou ſayſte there be ſpirites of errour, which ſtarting vp ſhoulde teache, that God willeth iniquitie, we paſſe not muche, bycauſe that thyne impudencye maye be condemned throughe Gods goodneſſe, with oure liues and writings. And ſée howe of the contrarie thou canſt excuſe thy ſelfe of moſt manifeſte ſlaunder, which thinkeſt, that ſinnes are permitted of God, in that they are ſinnes, Neyther when I ſay this, I returne euil ſpeaches, but for a falſe ſlannder, I render a true accuſation.