Answer to Navarre, Text 2
❧Ane answer the xxvj day of septembre, the yere a thousand fyue hundreth sixtie and one▪
Being arriued at Poyssy twelue ministers of the worde of God, with twelue deputies of Churches in an hall,… where was the Quene mother, the King & Quene of Nauarre, the princes of the blood royall and all the Lordes of Councell and other Lordes of the one syde: & of the other part 5 Cardinalles wt many bus…hops and Theologiens of all sortes.
…he lord …ardin…My Lorde Cardinall of Lorrain declared in few wordes that this assemble was made to heare what ye said ministers had to say vntounto that, whiche he had proponded two dayes befor, whereat Theodore rase vp in the name of the said xij ministers for all the Churches of France that be reformed and answered as followeth.
Madame the last tyme yt it pleased you to giuegive vsus audience we made declaratiō according to ye grace, that oure Lord gaue vsus, of the article yt was propoūded touching the Churche, the marckes, and authoritie of the same. Wherein we hauehave so followed ye worde of God that eueryevery one as we iudge had occasion to be cō tented with oure answer. But in stede to approue that whiche was spoken by vsus, we hauehave bene demāded by what power we minister ye word of God and the holie Sacramētes, and besydes all that there was no thing spared that might make oure cause more odiouse.… We can not tell for what purpose this was set forward. For first of all we came not hither to minister the worde of God nor the Sacramentes. Wherefore there was no nede to ask vsus by what authoritie we wold do it. If it should be said that it is to cause vsus rendre a reason of that whiche we hauehave done heretofore.… Ye must consider that oure company is of two maner of people, the one serue for ministers without this realme, ī places where their vocation is receiued, of them it may not be demanded why they be ministers. There is others that preache within this realme whome ye hauehave not called, to cause them giuegive an accompt of that wc is past, as touching their vocation, but onelie to conferre with their doctrine: or els it should be a beginning to make proces against them, the whiche thīg Madame we are sure that ye hauehave not mynded. If it be after a sorte, to conferre vnderunder correction, there should be therein no great purpose and yt could not serue but to cause vsus entre into this matter, out of the wc we could not depart without offending and angring my Lordes ye Prelates. The whiche we hauehave not mynded, nether will we giuegive occasion vntounto any body to interrupt this holy work that is begonne. And that it may be knowen yt we speake not without great cause:A simi…tude. alweys as two parties mete to entre into conference: if the one aske the other by what vertue do you this? The other will demande the lyke: and so it wilbe very hard but of these reciproque demandes there will arise some dissention. Therefore now leauing a part my Lordes the Prelates of this realme whome we will not offend, let vsus imagin vntounto vsus a busshop that demandeth of vsus by what tytle preache ye, and minister ye the Sacramente? We will demande of him if he him self was chosen by the ancientes or elders of the Churche vntounto the whiche he is appointed to be busshop,… if he was requyred by the people, if there was informatiō before that, taken of his lyfe and doctrine, he wold say yea. But the contrarie is well knowen, and we remitte oureselues vntounto the conscience of them that heare vsus, wc knowe how this goeth. And if he wold say vntounto vsus, ye are not ministers because ye hauehave not the imposition of handes, we might answer him ye are no minister because that in youre institutiō or ordeinīg were omitted the substanciall pointes and that cōmanded by Gods lawe,The P…pistes want … of th… vocati… the whiche may not be dispensed with. And if ye disputatiō grew more hote we should go further & may vse such wordes, ye hauehave but one of the three pointes requisit in the institution or ordeyning whiche is the imposition of handes, if the wanting of that as ye esteme doeth depriue vsus that we can not be ministers, for want of the other two muche lesse ye shall be ministers then we. The Councell of Calcidome,The … whiche is one of the 4 generall Coūcelles ordeyned that that the institution of a priest should be voyde, whiche haeth not bene deputed spicially vntounto ye seruice of sōe Churche, irrita sayeth he, in iniuriam ordinantis. With more strong reason may we say the same to the Busshop yt should dispute with vsus, when he wāteth ye two substāciall poī …es cōtrary to the ordināce of ye Apostle.…ite. 2. Yet se an other point whiche greueth vsus greatly to speake, and yet neuertheles be we constreyned thereunto that we may shew to all this company that if this disputation of the vocatiō were ones opened it should be greatly dangerouse if we should ask him who gaue him this imposition of handes he wold say that it was the Busshops by the authoritie yt was giuen vntounto them.… And if we should ask him, for how muche he boght that authoritie, he will say that he haeth not boght it, but that he haeth giuē so many thousād crounes, that is to say I hauehave not boght the bread but the corne. So that if ye were willīg to decide this question by the Councelles or canons of the Churche, there shoulde an infinite nombre of Busshoppes and curates hauehave red faces.… And therefore Madame we are not willīg to ētre therein, for feare to offēd any body, nor to make any reuenge, but onelyonly to shew you Madame yt if we should briefly answer, this is the desire that we hauehave, not to offend any body. And as touchīg the article of ye holy Supper of oure Lorde, we wold not of late speak any further of it, but hauing a respect to many of this cō pany, whiche hauehave not bene accustomed, to heare speak thereof any thing so forwardly, but yt they wilbe easily offēded, when they heare any thing that semeth new vntounto them. And therefore we had rather that they should heare the sayings of the an…ient doctors of the Churche, th… ours: considering yt my Lorde Cardinall of Lorrain haeth bound him self by his promes openly to īstruct vsus in this article with the wordes of the doctors,… that wrote the firste fyve hundreth yeres, so yt we were prepared to receiue the light, if it had bene shewed vntounto vsus that whiche hitherto haeth bene hidde frome vsus. Now to saitisfie vsus and also a great part of Christendome in that, that we desyred & looked for, there was propounded to vsus the article of the holie Sacrament cut of, and mingled,… i… the principale and moste necessarie pointes, & therewith it was said vntounto vsus, signe this, if not, we will go no further. And if we were presented prisoners vntounto you to be accused, yet should ye not say, signe this, if not, I condemne you, youre estate bindeth you to speake otherwayes, and cōmandeth you to shew vsus, oure errors, if we had any, and willeth that ye should be sufficient to exhort in holsome doctrine, them that hauehave nede of doctrine, and that be redy to rendre a reasone of their faith by the Scriptures. And althogh the manner to condemne vsus is new, yet the means whiche hauehave bene therein vsed be more strange as I shall shortly shew.
Madame we are here present for two prīcipale endes,… the one is to rē dre a reasone to God, and to you, & to all the worlde of oure faith, the other is to do seruice to God and to the King, and to you in all possible meanes to appese and mittigate the troobles that be risen in the cause of religion. If ye send vsus away agaī without giuing vsus some, with wh… ̄e we might charitably conferre there shalbe no thing donne vntounto vsus, wc shall not be published & made knowen throughout all Christendome. This will not be the meanes to appease ye troobles whiche they know well ynough, that are the makers thereof. If ye had no more a do, but with vsus, that be here present, there should be no great danger as touching the world, to do with vsus euen as ye wolde. But if it please you, we be here but a part of a thousād thousandes of persons, whiche be in this realme, Suysse, in Polonia, in Almayne, in England, & Scotland, wc altogether looke for some good resolution of this assemblie: and they shall vnderstād that in stede to conferre as it was promised,… there was giuen vntounto vsus ye tenth part of an article & there was said vntounto vsus signe this, or els we will go no further. And if we should hauehave signed, what shoulde ye gaine or winne thereby? They that sent vsus hither wold hauehave knowledge, whither we were constreyned therunto by force and violence: or els vainquished by good & certen argumentes. Wherefore we make humble request vntounto you Madame that ye wold not īterrupt this good worke, but yt ye wold giuegive vsus some yt wold make no cōscience to cō conferre wt vsus. Or els ye may iudge youre self, how muche sclander this kinde of ꝓceding yt is now vsed shall bring. And yet neuertheles, because yt ye should not remain wihout answer, vntounto that whiche was ꝓpoū ded vntounto vsus,… we declare that we approue all that was spoken by Moū sieure Despence in the booke which he gaue vntounto vsus without any other consideration thereof.
And as touching the article that … Cardinall haeth giuen vsus … that it is no thing but an … of ye confessiō of Ausbourgh. … be many thinges to be cō …dered to wit, ye hole cōfession must be communicated vntounto vsus. For it should be vnreasonable to present vntounto vsus a line of an article and to leaue out all the rest.… Further it must be knowen if my Lorde Cardinall of him self (the whiche neuertheles we will not presume, but desyre that we may hauehave witnessing thereof) or els of the authoritie of my Lordes the Prelates, haeth propounded here ye confession of Ausburgh, & to giuegive vsus thereof suche assurāce that we may frely conferre together.… For thereby at least, we might giuegive heartie thā kes to God for that my Lorde Cardinall and the others, shoulde condemne transsubstantiation the wc is reiected, by the cōmoun accorde of all the reformed Curches aswell in Almaigne as els where. And if they will that we signe any thing it is reason Madame that my Lorde Cardinall signe also that whiche h… in the name of his company presenteth vntounto vsus, that oure Churches whiche hauehave sent vsus hither may see and knowe, yt here we conferre not in the ayer that is in vain. And if my Lorde Cardiāll cōtinue ī this minde to approche and come nere vntounto the confession of the Almains in all pointes, I hope that God will make vsus come nerer & ioyne vsus in suche a sorte together, that ye shalbe well cōtent therof, and that his name shalbe glorified thereby throughoute the hole world.
And in the mean season, Madame, we say vntounto you yt oure Lorde Iesus Christe is in ye vse of the holie Supper in the whiche he presenteth,… giueth and exhibiteth verely vntounto vsus his body and his blood by the operation of his holy Spirit, & that we receiue and eat spiritually, and by faith his owne body wc dyed for vsus, for to be bones of his bones & fleshe of his fleshe that we may therby be quickened & receiue all that whiche is necessarie for oure saluation. And if this do not content you Madame, and that there be nede of an greater declaration (as surely it is a dangerous & a hard thing to speake of so great a mysterie in few words) if it please my Lorde Cardiāll to hold yt whiche he haeth promised, whiche is to visit altogither the holie Scripture and the ancient doctors of the Churche so farre as they shalbe conformable vntounto the same. And if it page missing
End of the text · Theodore Beza, Answer to Navarre (1562)