Whether Man Be in the Estate of Damnation or Grace, Dialogue 2

Whether Man Be in the Estate of Damnation or Grace · Dialogue 2

❧ A Dialogue containing the conflictes betweene Sathan and the Christian.

Sathan.

OVile helhound, thou art my slaue, and my vassall, why then shakest thou off my yoke.

Christian.

By nature I was thy vasal, but Christ hath redeemed me.

Sathan.

Christ redeemeth no Reprobates, such as thou art.

Christian.

I am no Reprobate.

Sathan.

Thou art a Reprobate, for thou …halt be condemned.

Christian.

Lucifer, to pronounce dam…ation, belongeth to God alone: thou art no Iudge, it is sufficient for thee to bee an accuser.

p. 338Sathan.

Though I cannot condemne thee, yet I know God will condemne thee.

Christian.

Yea, but God will not condemne me.

Sathan.

Goe too, let vsus trie the matter. Is not God a Lorde, and a King ouer thee and maie he not therefore giuegive thee a lawe to keepe, and punish thee with hell fire, if thou breake it?

Christian.

Yes.

Sathan.

And hast thou kept the lawe o… this thy Lord and King?

Christian.

No.

Sathan.

Let vsus proceede further? Is not the same Lord also a most righteous iudge, & therfore a most sharpe reuenger of sinne?

Christian.

Yes truelie.

Sathan.

Why then wilt thou flatter thy selfe thou hypocrite: God cannot winke a… thy sins, except he should be vniust. Wher… fore there is no remedie, thou art sure to b… damned: hell was prouided for thee, & now it gapeth to deuoure thee.

Christian.

There is remedie inough to deliuer me from condemnation. For God i… not onelie (as thou affirmest) a Lord and Iudge, but also a sauing, and a most mercifull Father.

p. 339Sathan.

But thou fire brande of hell fire, and childe of perdition, looke for no merciemercy at Gods hands, because thou art a most grieuous sinner: for,

1. Originall sinne runneth whollie ouer thee, as a lothsome botch or leprosie.

2. Thy minde knoweth not the thinges that be of God:

3. In the lawe of God thou art starke blinde, sauing that thou hast a fewe principles of it to make thee inexcusable.

4. The Gospel is foolishnes and madnes vntounto thee: thou makest no better accompt of it then of thine owne dreame.

5. Thy conscience is corrupt, because▪ it flattereth thee, and excuseth thy sinne.

6. Thy memorie keepeth and remembreth nothing, but that which is against Gods word; but thinges abhominable and wicked, it keepeth long.

7. Thy will hath no inclination to that which is good, but onelie to sinne and wickednesse.

8. Thy affections are set onelie on wickednes: they are as mighty Giants and Princes in thee, they hauehave thee at commandement. Remember, that for verie anger thou …ast beene sicke: that the lust of thy flesh p. 240hath driuen thee to madnes: forget not thy Atheisme, thy contempt of Gods worde, thy inward pride, thy enuie, hatred, malice, thy couetousnes, and infinite other wicked desires, which hauehave led thee captiue, and made thee outragious in all kind of naughtines.

10. Thy actuall sinnes committed partlie in secrete, partlie in publike, are most filthie and most infinite. Remember howe in such a place, at such a time, thou didst commit fornication: in another place thou diddest steale, &c. God saw this I warrant thee… yea, all thy sinnes are written in his booke… wherefore thou cursed wretch, all hope of merciemercy is cut off from thee.

Christian.

But Gods merciemercy farre exceedeth all these my sinnes: and I cannot bee soIsai. 1. 18. Acts. 1. 23. 38. 1. Tim. 1. 15 Psal. 103. 11. 12. 13.Isa 1:18Acts 1:23Acts 1:381 Tim 1:15Ps 103:11Ps 103:12Ps 103:13 infinite in sinning, as God is infinite in merciemercy and pardoning.

Sathan.

Darest thou presume to thinke of Gods merciemercy? why, the least of thy sinnes deserueth damnation.

Christian.

None of my sinnes can feareIsai. 53. 2. 3 4. 5.Isa 53:2Isa 53:3 me, or dismaie me. Christ hath borne the full wrath and vengeance of his Father vponupon the Crosse, euen for me, that I might be▪ deliuered from condemnation, which was p. 241due vntounto mee.

Sathan.

If Gods purpose were not to condemne thee, perswade thy selfe, hee would neuer laie so manie afflictions and crosses on thee, as he doth. What is this want of good name? this weaknes and sicknesse of the bodie? these terrours of thy minde? this dulnesse and frowardnes of thy hart? what are all these (I saie) and manie other euils, but the beginnings, and certaine flashings of the fire of Hell.

Christian.

Nay, rather my afflictions are …liuelie testimonies of my saluation. For god as a louing Father, partlie by them, as withHeb. 12. 6. 9. 10. 1. Pet. 2. 21. Gen. 42. 21Heb 12:6Heb 12:9Heb 12:101 Pet 2:21Gen 42:21 …courges chastneth my disobedience, and bringeth me into order: partly conformeth me vntounto my Sauiour Christ, and so by little and little, layeth open to mee mine owne1. Cor. 11. 12. Rom. 8. 26.1 Cor 11:12Rom 8:26 sinnes, that I may dislike my selfe and hate them: and maketh mee to renounce the …or…de, thy eldest sonne, and stirreth me vp to call vponupon him, & to praie earnestly with …grones and sighes, which I am not able to expresse with anie wordes, as I feele them.

Sathan.

Thy afflictions are heauie, and …omfortlesse, therefore they can not be arguments of Gods fauour.

p. 242Christian.

Indeed their nature is to bring griefe and heauines to the soule, but I hauehave had ioy in the middest of my afflictions, &Rom. 5. 2. 3. 4.Rom 5:2Rom 5:3Rom 5:4 strength sufficient to beare them, and after them hauehave ben many waies bettered, which befalleth to none of the wicked: and for thatRom. 8. 28. Psa. 119. 71.Rom 8:28Ps 119:71 cause, it is a great perswasion to mee, that … shal not be damned with the wicked world, but in spite of all thy power, passe frō death to euerlasting life.

Sathan.

After these thy manifold afflictions, thou must suffer death, which is mo… terrible, and a verie entrance to Hell.

Christian.

Death hath lost his sting b… Christes death: and vntounto me it shall be nothing els but a passage vntounto euerlasting life▪

Sathan.

Admit thou shalt bee deliuere… from hell by Christ, what will this auail… thee, cōsidering that thou shalt neuer com… to the kingdome of heauen? for Christe… death only deliuereth thee from death eternal, it can not aduance thee to euerlastin… life.

Christian.

I am nowe at this time a member of Christs kingdome, and after this lif… shall raigne with him for euer in his euerlasting kingdome.Rom. 5. ver. 8. 3. 4.Rom 5:8Rom 5:3Rom 5:4

Sathan

Thou neuer didst fulfill the law… p. 243therefore thou canst not come into the kingdome of heauen.

Christian

Christ hath perfectlie fulfilled euerie part of the lawe for mee: and by this his obedience imputed vntounto mee, I my selfe do keepe the lawe.

Sathan

Be it so, for all this, thou art farre inough from the kingdome of heauen, into which no vncleane thing shall euer enter: thou, although that Christ hath suffered death, and fulfilled the lawe for thee, yet thou art in part vncleane: thy cursed nature and the seedes of sinne are yet remaining in thee.Rom. 2. 3. Ioh. 17. 19.Rom 2

Christian.

Christ in the virgins wombe was perfectly sanctified by the holie ghost: and this perfect holines of his humane nature is imputed to me: euen as Iacob put on Esaus garments, to get his Fathers blessing: so I hauehave put on the righteousnes of Christ, as a long white robe couering my sinnes, & making me appeare perfectlie righteous, euen before Gods iudgement seat.

Sathan

Indeed, God hath made promiseIohn. 3. 14. 15.John 3:14John 3:15 vntounto mankinde in all these mercies and benefits in Christ: but the condition of this promise is faith, which thou wantest, and therfore canst not make anie accompt, that p. 244Christes sufferings, Christes fulfilling of the lawe, Christes perfect holinesse, can doe thee anie good.

Christian.

I hauehave true sauing faith.

The conflicts of Sathan with the strong Christian.

Sathan.

THou sayest that thou hast true faith, but I shall sift thee, and disproue thee.

Christian.

The gates of Hell shall neuer preuayle against my faith, doe what thou canst.

Sathan.

Tell me then, doest thou thinke that all the world shall be saued?

Christian.

No.

Sathan.

What, shall some be saued, and some condemned?

Christiam.

So saith the worde of God.

Sathan.

Thou then are peswaded that God is true euen in his mercifull promises, and that he will saue some men, as Peter and Paul, & Dauid, &c. and this is the onelyonly be leefe, by which thou wilt be saued.

Christian.

Naie, this I beleeue, and more too, that I particularly am in the number of those men which shall be saued: and this is p. 245the beleefe that saueth me.

Sathan.

It may bee thou art perswaded, that God is able to saue thee, but that God will saue thee, that is, that he hath determined to aduance this thy body, and this thy soule into his kingdome, & that he is most willing to performe it in his good time: heerein thou wauerest and doubtest.

Christian.

Nay Sathan, I in mine owne heart am fully perswaded, that I shall be saued,Ioh. 1. 12. 13. Ioh. 6. 35. 54. Mark. 9. 23John 1:12John 1:13John 6:35John 6:54Mark 9:23 and that Christ is specially my redeemer: and (O Lord) for Christes sake, helpe thou my doubting and vnbeliefe.

Sathan.

This thy full perswasion is onelyonly a phantasie, and a strong imagination of thine owne head: it goeth not with thee as thou thinkest.

Sathan.

It is no imagination, but trueth which I speake. For me thinks, I am as certaine of my saluation, as though my name2. Cor. 1. 2… Ephe. 1. 14. Rom. 8. 182 Cor 1:2Eph 1:14Rom 8:18 were registred in the Scriptures (as Dauids and Pauls are) to be an elect vessell of God: and this is the testimonie of the holy spirit of Iesus Christ, assuring me inwardly of my adoption, and making me with boldnesse and confidence in Christ, to pray vntounto God the father.

Sathan.

Still thou dreamest & imaginest, p. 246thou louest and likest thy self, and therefore thou thinkest the best of thy selfe.

Christian.

Yea, but God of his goodnesseAct. 13. 9. 1. Thes. 1. 3Acts 13:91 Thess 1:3 hath brought foorth such tokens of faith in me, that I cannot be deceiued.

1. I am displeased with my selfe for my manifold sinnes, in which sometime I hauehave delighted and bathed my self. Rom. 7. 15. 24.

2. I purpose neuer to commit them againe, if God giuegive me strength, as I trust he will.

3. I hauehave a verie great desire to be doing those things which God commandeth.

4. Those that bee the children of God. If I doe but heare of them, I louelove them with my hart, and wish vntounto them as to my selfe. 1. Iohn. 3. 14.

5. My heart leapeth for gladnesse, when I heare of the preaching of the word.

6. I long to see the comming of Christ Iesus, that an end may be made of sinning, and of displeasing God. Apoc. 22. 20.

7. I feele in my heart the fruites of the spirit, ioy, louelove, peace, gentlenes, meekenes, patience, temperance: the workes of the flesh I abhorre them, fornication, adulterie, vncleannesse, wantonnesse, Idolatrie, strife, enuie, anger, drunkennesse, bibbing and p. 247quaffing, and all such like. Galathians. 5. 19. 20. 22.

All these, they cannot proceede from thee Sathan, or from my fleshe, but onelie from faith which is wrought in me by gods holie spirite.

Sathan.

If this were so, God would neuer suffer thee to sinne, as thou doest.

Christian.

I shall sinne as long as I liue in this worlde, I am sure of it; because I amRom. 7. 15. Mat. 26. 69. 72. 74. 75.Rom 7:15Matt 26:69Matt 26:72Matt 26:74Matt 26:75 taught to aske remission of my sinnes continually. But the manner of my sinning now is otherwaies than it hath beene in times past. I hauehave sinned heretofore with ful purpose and consent of will; but now doubtles, I doo not. Before I commit anie sinne, I do not go to the practising of it with deliberation, as the carnall man doth, who taketh care to fulfill the lustes of the flesh: but if I doo it, it is flat beside my minde and purpose:Ro. 13. 14.Rom 13:14 In the doing of anie sinne, I woulde not doe it, my heart is against it, and I hate it, and yet, by the tyrannie of my flesh being ouercome, I doe it: afterwardc, when it is committed, I am grieued and displeased at my selfe, and doe earnestlie with teares aske at Gods hands forgiuenesse of the same sinne.

p. 248Sathan.

Indeede, this is verye true in the children of God: but thou art solde vnderunder sinne, and with great pleasure doest commit sinne, & louest it with thy whole heart: otherwise, thou wouldest not fall to sinne againe after repentance, and commit euen one and the same sinne, so often as thou doest. Thou hypocrite, this thy behauiour turneth all the fauour of God from thee.

Christian.

Nay, it is the order of the Prophets,Isay. 1. v. 8. Iere. 2. v. 1.Isa 1:8Jer 2:1 to call men to repentance, which hauehave fallen from the feare of God, and from the repentance, which they professed: and God in thus calling him, putteth them in hope of obtaining merciemercy. And the law had sacrifices offered eueryevery day, for the sinnes of all the people, and for particular men, both for their ignorances, and their voluntarie sinnes: which signifieth, that God is readie to forgiue the sinnes of his children: yea if they sinne daily. Abraham twise lied and swore that Sara was not his wife. Ioseph Gen. 12, 14 15 Gen. 20. 2. 3. Gen. 42. 25 16.Gen 12:14Gen 20:2Gen 20:3Gen 42:25swore twise by the life of Pharao. Dauid cōmitted adulterie often, because he tooke vntounto him Bathsheba, Vriahs wife, & also kept sixe wiues, and ten concubines. Gods will is, that mē forgiue till seuentie seuen times: and therefore he will shew much more merciemercy. p. 249And for my part, so oft as I shall fall into the same sin, so oft I shall hauehave Christ my aduocate and intercessour to the father for me, who will not damne me for the infirmitie which he findeth in me. I will abstaine from externall iniquitie, and I wil not make my members seruants vntounto sinne: and so1. Ioh. … … ▪ Dan. 9 … ▪Dan 9 long I trust my imperfections shall hauehave no power to damne mee: for Christes perfection is reputed to be mine, by faith which I hauehave in his bloud: God is not displeased, if my bodie be sicke and subiect to diseases: no more is he displeased at the disease and sicknesse of the soule. A naturall father willRom. 8. 28.Rom 8:28 …ot slay the bodie of his childe, when he is sicke, and abhorreth comfortable meates: and my heauenly father will not condemne my soule, although through the infirmitie of faith, and the weakenesse of the spirit: I commit sinne, and often loath his heauen…y word, the food of my soule. Nay, (which …s a strange thing) I know it by experience, …hat God hath turned my filthie sinnes to my great profit, and to the amendment of my life: like as the good Phisition, of ranke …oison is able to make a soueraigne medicine to preserue life.

Sathan.

Well, be it, that now thou art in p. 250the state of grace, yet thou shalt not continue so: but shalt before death depart from Christ.

Christian.

I know I am a mēber of Christs misticall bodie: I feele in my selfe the heauenlie power, and vertue of my head Christ Iesus: and for this cause I cannot perish, but shall continue for euer, and raigne in Heauen after this life with him.

The conflicts of Sathan with the weake Christian.

Sathan.

THy minde is full of ignorance and blindnes, thy heart is full of obstinacie, rebellion, and frowardnes against God: thou art whollie vnfit for anie good work: wherfore, thou hast no faith, neither canst thou be iustified, and accepted before God.

Christian.

If I hauehave but one drop of the grace of God, and if my faith bee no more than a litle graine of mustard seede, it is sufficientMat. 27. 20Matt 27:20 for mee: God requireth not perfect faith, but true faith.

Sathan.

Yea, but thou hast no faith at all

Christian.

I hauehave had faith.

Sathan.

Thou neuer hadst true faith: fo… p. 251in time past, when according to thine own opinion thou didst beleeue, then thou hadst nothing but a shadow of faith, and a foolish imagination, which all hypocrites hauehave.

Christian.

I wil put my trust in god for euer,Psal. 77. 5.Ps 77:5 & his former mercies shewed mee heretofore strengthē me now in this my weaknes.

1. He created me when I was nothing.

2. He created me a man, when he might hauehave made me an vglie Toade.

3. He made me of comelie bodie, and of good discretiō: wheras he might hauehave made me vglie, & deformed, franticke, & mad.

4. I was borne in the daies of knowledg, when I might hauehave beene borne in the time of ignorance and superstition.

5. I was borne of Christian parents, but God might hauehave giuen me either Turks or Iewes, or some other sauage people for my parents.

6. I might hauehave perished in my mothers wombe, but he hath preserued me, and prouided for me by his prouidence, euen vntounto this houre.

7. Soone after my birth, God might hauehave cast me into hell, but contrariwise, I was baptized, and so receiued the seale of his blessed couenant.

p. 2528 I hauehave had by Gods goodnesse some sorrowe for my sinnes past, and hauehave called on him, in hope and confidence that he… would heare me.

9 God might hauehave concealed his wor… from mee, but I hauehave heard the plentifu… preaching of it: I vnderstand it, and hau… receiued comfort by it.

10 Lastly, at this time God might pow… his full wrath on me: which he dooth no… but mercifully maketh me to feele mi… owne wants, that I might be humbled, a… giuegive all glorie vntounto him for his blessing… Wherefore, there is no cause why I shou… bee disquieted: but I will trust still in t… Lord, and depend on him, as I hauehave done▪

Sathan.

Thou feelest no grace of the h… lie Ghoste in thee, nor anie true tokens … faith, but thou hast a liuely sense of the r… bellion of thy heart, and of thy lewde a… wretched conuersation: therefore th… canst not put anie confidence in Christ… death and sufferings.

Christian.

Yet I will hope against all hop… and although, according to mine ow… Psal. 32. 1. 2. Cor. 5. 21Ps 32:12 Cor 5:21sense and feeling, I want faith: yet I will b… leeue in Iesus Christ, and trust to be sau… by him.

p. 253Sathan.

Though the children of GOD hauehave beene in many perplexities, yet neuer any of them hauehave bin in this case, in which thou art at this present.

Christian.

Heerein thou prouest thy selfe to be a lying spirite: for the Prophet Dauid …aith of himselfe, that he was foolish, and asPsal. 73. 22 2… Rom. 7. 19. 24.Ps 73:22Rom 7:19Rom 7:24 a beast before God: and yet he euen then trusted in God. And Paule was so led cap…iue of sinne, that he was not able to do the good he would, but did the euill which hee …ated: and so in great pensiuenes of heart, desired to be deliuered from this world, that …ee might bee disburdened of his corrupt …esh.

Sathan.

Thou miserable wretch, doest …ou feele thy selfe gracelesse, and wilt thou …eare the face of a Christian? and by thy …ypocrisie offend God? as thou art, so shew …y selfe to the world.

Christian.

Auoide Sathan, Christe hath anquished, and ouercome thee for my …ause, that I might also triumph ouer thee. … am no hypocrite: for whereas I hauehave had …eeretofore some testimonie of my faith, at his time I am lesse mooued, though faith …eme to be absent: like as a man may seeme … bee dead, both in his owne sense, and by p. 254the iudgement of the Phisition, and yet maie hauehave life in him: so faith maie bee, though alwaies it doe not appeare.

Sathan.

But thou art a man starke dead in sin, God hath now quite forsaken thee: hee hath left thee vntounto me to be ruled: hee hath giuen me power ouer thee, to bring thee to damnation: he will not hauehave thee to trust in him anie longer.

Christian.

Strengthen me good Lord; remember thy mercifull promises, that thouIsai. 57. 15.Isa 57:15 wilt reuiue the humble, & giuegive life to them that are of a contrite heart.

Sathan.

These promises concerne not thee, which hast no humble and contrite, but a froward, and a rebellious heart.

Christian.

Good Lorde forget not thy former mercies: giuegive an issue to these temptations of mine enemie Satan. And you my bretheren, which know my estate, praie for me, that God woulde turne his fauourable countenance towards me: for this I know, that the ptaier of the righteous auailethIa…. 5. 16. much, if it be feruent.