A Reformed Catholic, Doctrine 15
The XU. point. Of intercession of saints.
Our consent.
Our consent with them I will set downe in two conclusions. Conclus. I. The saints departed pray vntounto God, by giuing thankes vntounto him for their owne redemption, and for the redemption of the whole Church of God vponupon earth, Rev. 5. 8. The foure beasts and the foure and twentie Elders fell dovvne before the lambe—, 9. and they song a new song, Thou art worthie to take the booke and to open the seales thereof: because thou wast killed and hast redeemed vsus to God—. 13. And all the creatures which are in heauen—, heard I saying, Praise and honour and glorie and povver be vntounto him that sitteth vponupon the throne and vntounto the Lambe for euermore.
II. Conclus. The Saints departed pray generally for the state of the whole Church, Rev. 6. 9. And I savv vnderunder the Altar, the soules of them that were killed for the vvord of God—▪ & THEY CRIED, 10. How lōg Lord holy and true! dost thou not iudge and auenge our blood on them that dvvell on the earth? whereby we see they desire a finall deliuerance of the Church, and a destruction of the enemies thereof; that they themselues with all the people of God might be aduanced to fulnesse of glorie in bodie and soule. Yea the dumbe creatures, Rom. 8. 23. are said to grone and sigh, waiting for the adoption euen the redemption of our bodies: much more then do the Saints in heauen desire the same. And thus farre we consent.
The dissent or difference.
They holde and teach, that the Saints in heauen, as the virgin Marie, Peter, Paul, &c. doe make intercession to God for particalar men, according to their seuerall wants: and that hauing receiued particular mens praiers, they present them vntounto God. But this doctrine we flatly renounce vpō these grounds and reasons.
I. Isai 63. 16. The church saith to God, doubtles thou art our father, though ABRAHAM BE IGNORANT of vsus, and Israel KNOVVE VSUS NOT. Now if Abraham knewe not his posteritie: neither Marie, nor Peter, nor any other of the Saints departed knowe vsus and our estate: and consequently they cannot make any particular intercession for vsus. If they say that Abraham & Iacob were thē in Limho, which they will hauehave to be a part of hell: what ioye could Lazarus hauehave in Abrahams bosome, Luc. 16. 25. and with what comfort could Iacob say on his death bed: O Lord I hauehave waited for thy saluation. Gen. 46. 18.
II. Reason. 2. King. 22. 20. Huldah the prophetesse telleth Iosias, he must be gathered to his fathers, and put in his graue in peace, that his eyes may not see all the euill which God would bring on this place. Therefore the Saints departed see not the state of the Church on earth, much lesse doe they knowe the thoughts and prayers of men. This conclusion Augustine confirmeth at large.
III. Reason. No creature, Saint, or angell can be a mediatour for vsus to God, sauing Christ alone, who is indeede the onelyonly Aduocate of his church. For in a true and sufficient Mediatour there must be three properties. First of all, the worde of God must reueale and propound him vntounto the Church, that we may in conscience be assured, that praying to him and to god in his name, we shall be heard. Nowe there is no scripture that mentioneth either Saints or Angels as mediatour in our behalfe, saue Christ alone. Secondly, a mediatour must be perfectly iust, so as no sinne be found in him at all, 1. Ioh. 2. 1. If any man sinne we hauehave an advocate with the father Iesus Christ THE RIGHTEOVS. Now the Saints in heauen, howsoeuer they be fully sanctified by Christ, yet in themselues they were conceiued and borne in sinne: and therefore must needes eternally stand before God by the mediation and merit of an other. Thirdly, a mediatour must be a propitiatour, that is, bring something to God, that may appease and satisfie the wrath and iustice of God for our sinnes: therefore Iohn addeth, and he is a PROPITIATION for our sinnes. But neither Saint nor Angel can satisfie for the least of our sinnes: Christ onelyonly is the propitiation for them all. The virgin Marie and the rest of the Saints being sinners, could not satisfie so much as for thē selues.
IV. Reason. The iudgement of the church. Augustine, All Christian men commend each Lib. 3. contra Parmen. c. 3.other in their prayers to God. And vvho PRAIES FOR AL, and for whom NONE PRAIES, he is that one and true mediatour. And, This Tract. in Ioh. 22.saith thy Sauiour, thou hast NO VVHITHER to goe but to me, thou hast NO VVAY to goe BVT BY ME. Chrysostome, Thou hast NO NEED OFDe perfectu Euang. PATRONS to God, or much discour se that thou shouldest sooth others: but though thou be alone and want a patrone, and by thy selfe pray vntounto God, thou shalt obtaine thy desire. And on the saying of Iohn, If any sinne, &c. Thy praiers hauehave no effect vnlesse they be such as THE LORD COMMENDS vntounto thy Father. And August. on the same place hath these words, He beeing such a man saide not, ye have an Advocate, but if any sinne vve hauehave: he saide not ye hauehave, neither said he, YE HAVE ME.
Obiections of Papists.
I. Rev. 5. 8, 9. The foure and tvventie Elders fall downe before the lambe, hauing eueryevery one harpes and golden vyals, full of odours vvhichwhich are the prayers of the Saints. Hence the Papists gather, that the Saints in heauen receiue the praiers of men on earth, and offer them vntounto the Father. Ansvv. There by prayers of the Saints, are meant their owne prayers, in which they sing prayses to God and to the lambe, as the verses following plainely declare. And these prayers are also presented vntounto God onelyonly from the hand of the angel, which is Christ himselfe.
II. Obiect. Luc. 16. 27. Diues in hell praiethcap. 8. v. 4. for his brethren vponupon earth, much more doe the Saints in heauen pray for vsus. Ans. Out of a parable nothing can be gathered, but that which is agreable to the intent and scope thereof: for by the same reason it may as well be gathered that the soule of Diues beeing in hell had a tongue. Againe, if it were true which they gather, we may gather also that the wicked in hell hauehave compassion and louelove to their brethren on earth, and a zeale to Gods glory: all which are false.
III. Obiect. The angels in heauen know eueryevery mans estate: they know when any sinner repenteth and reioyceth thereat: & pray for particular men: therefore the Saints in heauen doe the like, for they are equall to the good angels, Luc. 20, 36. Ans. The place in Luke is to be vnderstood of the estate of holy men at the day of the last iudgement: as appeares, Matth. 22. 30. where it is saide, that the seruants of God in the resurrection are as the angels in heauen. Secondly they are like the angels not in office and ministerie, by which they are ministring spirites for the good of men: but they are like thē in glorie.
Secondly we dissent from the Papists: because they are not content to say that the Saints departed pray for vsus in particular; but they adde further, that they make intercession for vsus by their merits in heauen. New Iesuits denie this: but let them heare Lumbard,Lib. 4. dist. 45. p. 6. I thinke (saith he, speaking of one that is but of meane goodnes) that he as it were passing by the fire shall be saued by the MERITS and intercessions of the heauenly Church; vvhichwhich doth alwaies make intercession for the faithfull by request and merit, till Christ shall be compleate in his members. And the Romaneon second Command. Catechisme saith as much. Saints are so much the more to be worshipped and called vponupon; because they make prayers daily for the saluation of men: and God for their merit and fauour bestowes many benefits upon vsus. We denie not, that men vponupon earth hauehave helpe and benefit by the faith and pietie which the Saints departed shewed, when they were in this life. For God shewes mercy on them that keep his commandements to a thousand generations. And Augustine saith, it was good for the Iewes, that they were loued of Moses,q. 149. super Exod. whome God loued. But we vtterly deny, that we are helped by merits of Saints either liuing or departed. For Saints in glory hauehave receiued the full reward of all their merits; if they could merit: and therefore there is nothing further that they can merit.