Plain Evidences the Church of England is Apostolical, Part · Response · Part 5
The fift Likelihood.
THe condemnation of their way by our owne Diuines, men of godly life and ſound Doctrine, to wit, Doctor Whittakers, Doctor Willet, Doctor Alliſon, Mr. Perkins, Mr. Smith Mr. Rogers, Mr. Iames, with many other: yea, Mr. Cartwright, and Mr. Fenner, condemned their way.Page 31. 32. In my former Booke I hauehave ſhewed their ſeuerall iudgements of theſe men.
Reply to Mr. Ainſworths Anſwere toPage 159. this fift Likelihood.
HIs anſwere to this Likelihood, containeth onelyonly a Anſwere full of contempt and vncharitableneſſe.ſhewing of the light eſtimation of theſe Diuines, and an vncharitable coniecture of me, how I would hauehave delt with Chriſt, if I then had been liuing: where he compareth them ſelues to Chriſt, and theſe reuerend Diuines to the Prieſts, Rabbins, and Diuines in Iſrael, condemning Chriſt and his Doctrine, holding the iudgement of theſe our Diuines, to hauehave no more Likelihood againſt them, then the Iudgement of the Iewiſh Rabbins and other wereMr. Ainſworth anſwers not to the point, and the force of this Likelihood he paſſeth by. againſt Chriſt and his Doctrine. I ſuppoſed he would by good reaſon hauehave ſhewed, that theſe mens learned Iudgements could not be ſo much as a Likelihood to reproue them in their way, but hee hauing not done this, hee ſaith nothing.
Reply to Mr. Smiths Anſwere to thePage 127. fift Probabilitie or Likelihood.
Anſwer. FIrſt, he frameth an Argument for me, but ridiculouſly thus:
Whatſoeuer Mr. Whittakers, Mr. Perkins, Mr. Willet and the reſt ſay of the Separation is true.
But they ſay that the Separation is not true. Ergo, it is not true.
Secondly, hee maketh anſwere by another Argument thus:
Whatſoeuer Herod, Pontius Pilate, Annas, and Caiphas, the learned Scribes and Phariſes, Teriullus the Orator, and all the learned men of the Iewiſh Church ſay is true, that is true.
Theſe perſons all of them with one conſent, ſay that Chriſtian Religion is Hereſie and Schiſme. Ergo, Chriſtian Religion is Hereſie and Schiſme.
Reply. The firſt I reiect, as no reaſon of mine: what I hauehave ſayd I thus frame:
Whatſoeuer theſe godly and learned Diuines, ſay and write of conſiderately, in a point of Diuinitie concerning the viſible Church, it is very likely to be true.
Firſt, becauſe theſe men were better learned, and no leſſe Reaſons to proue the force of the Likelihood.godly then theſe which do condemne them: ſecondly, becauſe they herein ſpeake in a matter belonging to their calling: thirdly, becauſe it is to be thought that they had ſtudied the controuerſie, and ſpoke not raſhly, it is to be ſuppoſed that ſo godly & learned men, would not raſhly condemne vnderunder their hands to after Poſterities what they knew not: fourthly, Becauſe theſe be many in number, and generally approued of the Churches of God. Is it not probable that ſuch as be learned and godly, hauing ſtudied a cauſe, being approued men, and many in number, doe iudge rightly of a cauſe? Can it not be a likelyhood? Let him that can diſproue it.
But theſe godly and learned Diuines, ſay and write conſiderately, that the Separatiſts courſe (which is a point of Diuinitie touching the viſible Church) is wicked and Schiſmaticall.
This I hauehave proued in my former Booke, Page 31.
Therefore it is likely that the courſe of the Separatiſts is wicked and Schiſmaticall.
To conclude; he reaſoneth thus for the Separation, and againſt vsus:
Whatſoeuer Chriſt, the Apoſtles, the holy Scriptures, and Mr. Smiths reaſon to proue themſelues right, and we to be out of the way.the Primitiue Apoſtolicke Churches, collected of the Iewes and Gentiles, doe allow or diſallow: it is to be allowed or diſallowed.
But the Separation is allowed, and the Church Miniſterie, worſhip and Gouernment of the Engliſh Aſſemblies is diſallowed by the aforeſaid perſons.
Therefore the Separation is to be allowed, and the Aſſemblies of England to be diſallowed.
Reply. For the proofe of this Minor, he ſaith, it is proued in his Booke: ſo he brings himſelfe to witneſſe for himſelfe, which is a weake proofe, if hee were a man euer himſelfe. But ſithen he is not alwayes himſelfe, neither in iudgement nor practiſe, his defence is childiſh: he ſhould let that which he hath written be approued of other then himſelfe, and his company, before he make it authoritie to confirme ſo falſe an Aſſumption as hee affirmeth to be true, by his owne booke. But ſithen he hath no more proofe but his owne ſaying, I returne his Argument thus againſt himſelfe:
Whatſoeuer Chriſt, his Apoſtles, the holy Scriptures, and the Primitiue Apoſtolicke Churches: yea, and all the Churches after Fathers and Counſels doe allow or diſallow, is to be allowed or diſallowed.
This needeth no proofe.
But the Separation is diſallowed, and the Church, Ministerie, worſhip and Gouernment of the Church of England is allowed by theſe perſons. Ergo, &c.
If Mr. Smith deny that they diſallow not the Separation,And his late Booke, againſt Mr. Clifton. then I referre himſelfe to himſelfe, in his booke of differences where he condemneth the way of the Separation, practiſed by Mr. Iohnſon and his company for Antichriſtian (out of the Scriptures) as he ſuppoſeth: and if the ſcriptures condemne it, then Chriſt, his Apoſtles and the reſt, except he can ſhew what Church, what Counſell, what Father euer allowed of ſuch a Separation. He may read Zanchie de Eccleſia, againſt ſuch a Separation, and Morneus in his Booke of the Church, in diuers things oppoſing the Separatiſts iudgement, with Caluin and others; to whom I referre him, as my witneſſes againſt him. Beſides, the
Scripture againſt his cauſe. If hee doe affirme, that they doe condemne our Church, the Miniſterie, Worſhip and gouernment, then I demand whether wholy or but in part: if but in part, ſo may any Church of God in the world, as hee himſelfe doth the ſeparation, by him ſomtime ſo much approued: if hee ſay wholy, let him bring out his euidences from Chriſt, from the Scripture. In the meane ſeaſon let him anſwere for this matter, Biſhop Bilſons perpetuall Gouernment: Doctor Sutcliffe of Ecceleſiaſticall Diſcipline: Mr. Hooker: Mr. Bels Regiment of the Church: Doctor Downehams Sermon, who hauehave taken the defence of theſe things in hand, in which if they erre, let theſe Separatiſts confute them, and ceaſe to call for new and more opponents, till theſe be ouer-throwne by them: till then I conclude from the premiſes, that we are to be allowed, and the Separatiſts to be diſallowed.