Arrow Against the Separationists, Discourse · Chapter 6
CHAP. VI. Touching ſeparation from ſuch as hold communion with the Church of England.
Hen. Ainſ.FOr your agreement with the Church of England I have ſhewed it to be more then you would pretend. Your members with you, diſclaime ſeparation from it: ſome of them have publickly renounced as moſt abominable, the covenant which we have made, in ſeparating from the ſynns of that Church, ſhewed in my former argument. As for your covenant which you mention, to ſeparate from knowen evils, and to ſerve the Lord in the Goſpel of his Son, ſo far as is revealed vntounto you: they are but generals, ſuch as Arians, Anabaptiſts Papiſts, (and who not that profeſſe Chriſt?) will make alſo: that there can be no diſcerning, much leſſe approbation of your Church hereby. We have in our Confeſsion and Apologie, ſhewed the particular evils which we ſeparate from, and order in the Goſpel of Chriſt which we ſubmit vntounto: till you do the like, we have no reaſon to approve of your Church: eſpecially knowing your oppoſition against vsus, for the trueth which we profeſſe. Neyther ſeparate you from all knowen evils: for you have not repented of, and ſeparated from the falſe worſhip by humane leitourgies, or communion with the vnlawfull miniſterie and Church eſtate of the Pariſhes and Dioceſes in England, though they have ſo many yeares been convinced to be evil, before your eyes. Yea you, in this your plea, diſclaime not the authoritie and governement of the prelates as ſynfull ſimply, but in compariſon, as doe the Dutch and French churches as if the arme of fleſh could not fayl you, or be faultie in approving that which is to be condemned. Yet is your compariſon vnfitt: for you were in your perſons, members of that church, & vnderunder the prelates rule, frō which your abiding for the preſent in an other lād, freeth you not: ſeing all our ſynns remayn vponupon vsus, and we are tyed in their coards, til we break them off by qAct. 20.21. and 26.18.repentance and faith in Chriſt, vntounto forgivenes, as I ſhewed before.
Anſwer.
Io. Pa.I Expected here ſome arguments to confirme the third mayne cauſe alledged to prove our Church falſe and our communion vnlawfull▪ In ſtead thereof you ſtill quarrel about the matter of fact how far we agree with the Church of England, but bring not one ſound reaſon to conclude a ſeparation from vsus in reſpect of that agreement. And even about the matter of fact it ſelf, you deale very evilly in divers regards. 1. VVhereas I gave you 3 diſtinct anſwers touching the ſame: one part thereof you do quite omit, namely my ſecond anſwer, and ſay not a word vntounto that wherein you were juſtly reproved: and the reſt you do confuſedly ſhuffle togather. 2. That your ſeparation, and covenant therein ſhould be diſclaymed as a moſt abhominable thing, I have alwayes profeſſed; and you have not (as you affirme) ſhewed our agreement with England, to be more then I would pretend: Therein you ſpeak not truely 3. vvhereas you ſay of our profeſſion to ſeparate from knowne evilles, but not from the Churches of Chriſt for evilles among them, &c. that they are but generalls ſuch as Arians, Anabaptiſts, (& who not that profeſs Chriſt?) will make alſo; you offend divers wayes: for on the one ſide both you in your ſchiſme and many Anabaptiſts alſo will not make the like but the contrary profeſsion: you profeſſe that aApolog. pag. 45. comm. of Saincts, ch. 23.by communion with open wicked reteyned among them all are defiled: The Anabaptiſts hold the ſame, and being refuted by Mr. Calvine, are herein defended by bDiſcov. p. 33.34.H. Barow. The like profeſsion is made by Lemar the Arian, as is teſtifyed by divers: This being ſo, you did cunningly, but not honeſtly in the repetition of my words to leave out that part of them which might manifeſt this difference of our profeſsion, viz. but not from the Churches of Chriſte for evilles among them▪ On the other ſide there are ſome kinde of Arians, Socinians, Familiſts, Anabaptiſts, Libertines, Church-Papiſts who do not profeſſe ſeparation from knowne evilles, but are content to hold communion with knowne evilles ſo deemed of them: ſo vntruely and inconſiderately you write in ech reſpect. 4, whereas you require vsus to ſhew the particular evilles we ſeparate from, as you have done in your confeſsion and apology, &c. you do but trifle and hold off from the queſtion; for know you not that we are one with the Dutch Church, that we are a member of their Claſsis kept in this city: that we hold the ſame fayth deſcribed in the Belgique confeſsion printed long ſince: and that we ſubmit vntounto the ſame order of governement with them? Doth it not hereby appeare vntounto you, what particular evilles we ſeparate from? And what need we then to print any new confeſſions as you have done? If you obiect any difference in matters of leſs moment, you know them to be ſuch, as that you approve vsus therein, rather then them. If you did not behold vsus with a ſquint eye, theſe things would be plaine enough vntounto you▪ but it is not without cauſe, which Mr. Robinſon in the refutation of your private ſchiſme, writes of you, concerning your looking at others cRelig. com. p. 12.onelyonly with the left eye. 5. That which you ſay of the worſhip, miniſtery and Church eſtate in England ſo many yeares convinced, &c is but a falſe boaſting and flattring of your ſelf in vaine: I have before nominated vntounto you divers treatiſes wherein your errours about theſe matters are refuted. 6. You do notoriouſly pervert my words, when you ſpeak of my diſclayming but in compariſon, as do the Dutch and French Churches: as if the arme of fleſh could not fayle me, or be faultie in approving that which is to be condemned: vponupon theſe your words the reader which had not ſeene what I wrote, might be made to beleeve, that I had alledged the example of theſe Reformed Churches as an argument to juſtify our eſtate: but it is far otherwiſe▪ I ſhewed their practiſe to be the ſame with ours▪ onelyonly to this end: that it might appeare how inexcuſably partiall you are that condemne vsus as a falſe church, for that very thing which thoſe whom you do confeſſe to be true Churches, do hold as well as we. My words were plaine and I deſire the reader to mark them, and with all to judge howwell you cleare your ſelf of that partiality imputed: and whether my words have not bene vvrongfully vvreſted by you. 7. VVhere you ſay, my compariſon is vnfit, for that we were in our perſons, members of that Church and vnderunder the Prelates rule, &c. I anſvvere, ſundry people of our Church vvere never members of the Church of England, but came out of Scotland and from other places. Many members of the Dutch Church, have in their perſons bene members of the Church of England and vnderunder the prelates rule: yea ſome of them have bene miniſters vntounto Engliſh congregations and vnderunder the prelates. Many yea and the greateſt part of our Church at the firſt gathering vvere ſuch as in their perſons were then members of the Dutch Church, and were from them tranſlated vntounto vsus with teſtimony of their ſound faith and godly converſation. Many that in their perſons were never members of the church of England may be as much and more guilty in approving the corruptions of that Church, then ſuch as have there lived vnderunder the rule of the prelates. How vaine then is that which you except againſt my compariſon?
In the laſt place, you bring ſome colour of an argument againſt the lawfulnes of our communion: but it is far too light to prove vsus a falſe Church. You ſay, our abiding for the preſent in an other land, freeth vsus not [from the ſins committed in England] ſeing all our ſynns remayn vponupon vsus, and we are tyed in their cords, till we break them off dAct. 20.21. & 26.18.by repentance and faith, &c. This is that which you obiected ePag. 36.before, to prove that the reaſons directed againſt the Church of England, are againſt ours alſo: you ſay, vntounto vsus, The remooving of our dwelling into an other land, remooveth not your ſins from you, nor you from them: it is your repentance onelyonly and faith in Chriſte, that can purge away your ſins, Luk 13.3.5. Mark. 1.15 Papiſts that dwell here, in Englād or other where belong to the church of Rome, till they break off themſelves by repentance. Neither doth the abſteyning from the practiſe cleare the ſinner: for the guilt of Cayns Murder, cleaved vntounto him all his dayes, becauſe he was not cleanſed by repentance and faith, although he never killed man more, after Abel. So though you here practiſe not the idolatries doen in England, yet in that you have practiſed them & not repented, your guiltines is vponupon you, &c. I anſvvere,
1. It is not our ſin in communion with, but your ſin in ſeparating from the church of England that is to be repented of. As you are refuted and called vntounto repentance by Mr. Robinſon, for one mayne part thereof, vvhile he hath convinced your more private ſchiſme: ſo are you by ſundry others for your publique ſchiſme. VVhen your ſeparation from our particular congregation hath bene vvell examined, I doubt not but your ſeparation from England alſo vvill thereby appeare in a great meaſure to be vnvvarrantable: and then the vvay being ſo prepared, my reſolution is (the Lord aſſiſting) if need be, to proceed further vvith you in ſhevving your ſchiſme from …nglād. In the meane time it vvould but draw vsus from the preſent controverſie.
2. If our communion vvith the Church of England vvere a ſin, yet is it not knowne ſo to vsus; vve aſſure our ſelves of the contrary: all your obiections we judge to be vnſound. VVe repent vsus of our knowne ſins: our ſecret ſinnes we know to be innumerable, and we endevour to be humbled for them: and beleeve that in Chriſt they are done away; So that if our communion with England were a ſin, yet are we not tyed in the cords thereof, as you teach. Nay your doctrine as it is applyed and maynteyned againſt vsus, to the contrary, is a manifeſt and a maine hereſie, overthrowing the Goſpell, and the foundation of Chriſtian Religion both concerning faith and repentance in vsus, and concerning the Merit of Chriſtes death & obedience. VponUpon your reaſoning it followeth; that no Repentance and faith is accepted vntounto ſatvation vnleſs there be a particular acknowledgment of all ſins diſputed againſt, as you have done againſt vsus; that the Blood of Chriſte doth not cleanſe vsus from al ſin: but that we are ſtill tyed in the cordes thereof, vntil there be a particular diſcerning and acknowledging of the ſame. This is contrary to the whole tenour of the Goſpell, declared in theholy dLev. 9.7. & 16.5-30 Iob 9.3. with ch. 33 27.28. Eſa. 44.22. Pſ. 103.3. Ioh. 1.29. & 8.12. 1 Ioh. 1.7. 2 Pet. 1.3. with 1. Cor. 13.9. & 3.1.2.3. Philip. 1.5.9.ſcriptures: all which do ſhew that through faith in Chriſt we get remiſſion of al our ſinnes, even of thoſe which through the great corruption of the fleſh remayning even in the moſt faithfull, we cannot diſcerne often times, though the Lord for his part have given ſufficient meanes to reveale and manifeſt the ſame vntounto vsus. VVhat avayleth it to ſay, that Chriſt dyed for ſinners: while you propound ſuch a condition, and require ſuch a repentance as no man can attayne vntounto? God hath decreed to magnify the perfectiō of his grace in the imperfection of our faith and repentance: The infinite vertue and dignity of Chriſtes divine nature appeares moſt gloriouſly, as in others ſo in this particular of giving merit vntounto the ſuffrings of his manhood, to ſatisfy even for vnknovvne ſins that are not particulerly and diſtinctly confeſſed & repented of. VVhat meane you then to maintaine ſuch a fundamentall and pernicious errour as darkens the glory both of Chriſts perſon and office, and defaceth the nevv teſtament? vvith vvhat conſcience can you ſay that vve are tyed in the cords of our ſins, and are conſequently to be reiected as a falſe Church, becauſe vve repent not of an vnknovvne ſin, vnknovvne to vsus, and ſo controverſall, that no miniſter of Chtiſte on earth can diſcerne the ſame: you being the onelyonly teacher that dare affirme ſuch a thing?
3. Suppoſe vve vvere tyed in the cords of our ſin, for vvant of this particular repentance, which you require: yet doth it not follovv that communion vvith vsus is vnlavvfull: for the truth vvhichwhich vve profeſs; for the true vvorſhip vvhichwhich vve practiſe at this preſent; and at leaſt for their ſakes among vsus, vvhichwhich never vvere members of the Church of England, ſome favour and felllovvſhip ſhould be yeelded vntounto vsus by you. Our Saviour hath taught vsus to hold communion vvith vvicked men, for the godly ſake that vvere among them: yea vvith ſuch as vvere tyed in the cords of their ſin, vvith ſuch as did manifeſtly eIoh. 8.21 59. with Luk. 22.7.8.live and dy in their ſinnes, vvithout repentance. VVhy do you then ſeek to lead men into the crooked path of ſchiſme contrary to the example of Chriſte? As in the former anſvver theheight of your hereſy was diſcovered ſo in this the depth of your ſchiſme is manifeſtly diſcerned, in calling men to ſeparate not onelyonly from the practiſe of ſin, but alſo from the true worſhip of God, vponupon pretence of ſome vnrepentant perſons, which might pollute you with their fellowſhip therein. As for the ſcriptures alledged by you, viz. Act. 20.21, and 26.18. Luk. 13.5. Mark. 1.15. They ſhew indeed that men ought to repent, but there is not a word or ſyllable in them, that ſounds to call vsus vntounto ſeparation from ſuch as do not repent. Theſe ſcriptures are all abuſed by you: and touch not the queſtion.
4. Conſider how by this maner of reaſoning you contradict yourſelf: for whereas you acknowledge the Reformed Churches notwithſtanding your ſeparation from them, to be fCounterpo. p. 49.true Churches & your brethren in Chriſte, and yet by your profeſſion hold them to be tyed in the cordes of their ſin, becauſe they do not repent of divers ſins, which in your confeſſion, dedicate vntounto their vniverſities, are cōvinced to be evill, as you imagine I would now know of you, why our want of repentance makes vsus to be a falſe Church rather then them; eſpecially, why more then the Dutch and French Churches of this city, whom you note to be tyed in many cords of ſin, whiles you gAnſ. to Th. wh. p. 78.79.charge them with the tranſgreſſion of ſo many lawes of God, for vvhichwhich they do not repent.
5. Seing Mr. Robinſon and his people do now (as divers of themſelves confeſſe) receyve the members of the Church of England into their congregation, and this without any renunciation of the Church of England, without any repentance for their Idolatries committed in the Church of England: how can you hold them to be a true Church and communion with them lawfull: ſeing that by your reaſoning they are tyed in the cords of their ſin, as well as we; their guiltines is vponupon them, though they have remooved their dwelling, and though they practiſe their Idolatries no more? At every turne your partiality appeares. Paul h1. Timo 5 21.charged Timothy before God, and the Lord Ieſus Chriſte, and the elect Angelles, that he ſhould donothing partially how litle do you regard this vehement obteſtation? How will you anſwer it before the Lord and his Angels in that great day?
6. This your reaſoning ſerves to bring confuſion and diſſipation vponupon your owne particular Church: for it is manifeſt according to your owne profeſsion that there are many knowne ſins among you vnrepented off and to omit a multitude of others which I could name, conſider but theſe: It is well knowne that ſome of your people do heare ſermons in Idol-temples as you call them, and though you plead againſt me, that this is a heynous ſin, yet you do now ſuffer it practiſed among you. Your Elder Iohn Decluſe alledged this among the reſt for one cauſe of his ſeparating from the french church, viz. becauſe they ſuffred the party innocent to reteyne the offendant that had committed adultery & to live ſtill togather: & heretofore (as you iAnſ. to Th. wh. p. 32.confeſſe) it was the practiſe of your Church to excommunicate the innocent parties that would forgive the offendour either huſband or wife vponupon their repentāce in ſuch caſe: ſince that time you cōfeſſe alſo that your judgemēt is altered touching this matter, yet ſo that ſome of you are ſtill perſwaded that your former judgement and practiſe was juſt. Of thoſe that are ſo minded I aſk how they can (according to your reaſoning againſt vsus) hold communion where ſuch ſcandalles and abhominations as in their perſwaſion deſerve excommunication, are yet openly tolerated without repentance. As for your Elder Decluſe in ſpeciall, if he be one of them that have altered his judgement, why doth he not acknowledge his fault vntounto the French Church for alledging vntounto thē ſuch an vniuſt & vnſound cauſe of his ſeparatiō from thē? If he have not chāged his judgemēt, how can he & the reſt that are of his judgement reteyne fellowſhip, where judgement and and juſtice is openly perverted, where excommunicable crimes are contrary to the word of God covered & maintayned? vve have here juſt cauſe to ſpeak vntounto you as Barow doth to the miniſters of England, even touching this very poynt, when he would ſhow how ill they teach and keep theſeventh commandement: he ſaith, kH. Barow diſcov. p. 182.And that your graveſt and best conſcienced preachers think not themſelves in this caſe without blame, let them examine their corrupt conſciences, how many of their cheef hearers and devout proſelytes they know both men and women, that know ſuch crimes ech by others, and yet for filthy lucre or fleſhly reſpects continue together. Are not their conſciences rather moſt corrupt, that knowing ſuch crimes by one an other, and holding them to be juſt cauſes of excommunication do hold with all that for crimes vnrepented & vnredreſſed men ought to ſeparate, and yet contrary to their profeſſion do live in a polluted ſociety? May I not ſay vntounto theſe men evē in your owne words Mr. Ainſworth, that lAnimadverſ. p. 125if they which hold otherwiſe in judgement, ſhal yet let the true practiſe of the Goſpell goe: poſterity after them, being brought into bondage, may juſtly blame and curſe them, that would not ſtand for the right, &c. Further when Mr. Iohnſon in his publique doctrine had expounded Mat. 18.17. contrary to your practiſe, and by many diſputes had publiquely mainteyned his expoſition, that he might quite ſubvert and change the forme of governement long practiſed among you: you tell vsus that yet in end you offred vntounto him before your parting, that mIbid. p. 123.notwithſtanding your differences of judgement, you would continue together, if your former practiſe might be reteyned: howſoever you cover the matter vnderunder the Phraſe of difference of judgements, yet cannot you deny but that he openly taught falſe doctrine, and that in a matter of great weight: and that therfore he was tyed in the cordes of his ſin, though he had abſteyned from the practiſe of his doctrine; and yet ſignify that you are content to reteyne communion with an vnrepentant teacher of falſe doctrine. Your firſt offer being refuſed, you tell vsus that then nIbid. p. 126.you deſire of him, that you might have a praceable parting: and to be two diſtinct congregations, ech practiſing as they were perſwaded, yet nouriſhing brotherly love and vnitie. If your deſire had bene granted, yet could you not deny, but that Mr. Iohnſon and his people had bene tyed in the cordes of their ſin; that their guiltines had remayned vponupon them, both for falſedoctrine, change of your former governement, and great ſcandall which in your opinion followed therevpon, and yet with theſe vnrepentant Apoſtates, you profeſſe to hold and nouriſh brotherly love and vnity: o extreme partialitie in you, that are ſo ready to ſmother ſcandalles among your ſelves without repentance of the Authors thereof; and yet ſo far from nouriſhing brotherly love and vnity with other churches of Chriſte, whom you cannot with any colour accuſe to be ſo deep in ſin, by forſaking the truth formerly profeſſed. Either repent of theſe offers, or els think, that according to your owne plea againſt vsus, your owne people cannot with good conſciēce communicate with you, that mainteyne ſo great partialitie.