An Epistle Unto Two Daughters of Warwick, Response to letter · Response 11 – Excerpt from letter 13
H. A.
UUE mark wel that H. N. writeth for truth / his own errors and deceits / out of his corrupt hart. No man (sayth he) can confesse Christ, vnlesse that he in his like being have his fashion in him. This is an vntruth of H. Ns. fiction; he writeth thus / but in the holy scriptures it is not so written. For to confesse Christ, is one thing / to hav his fashion in vsus, is another thing: the first may be / wher the latter is not; as the Apostle telleth vsus of some that confesse that they know God / but in works do deny him, Tit. 1. 16. The confessing of Christ is with the mouth; Rom. 10. 10. the having of Christs shape in vsus / is by fayth; Eph. 3. 17. Phil. 3. 8. 9. which faith is in the hart; and (as th'Apostle sheweth Rom. 10. 10.) these both / (confession with the mouth / and beleef with the hart) are needful to salvation. It is possible for hypocrites to make a good and true confession of Christ with the mouth / and yet in their harts not be partakers of the Christian or godly nature; as Iudas Iscariot, Simon Magus, and others that were baptised and made Christs disciples by a true outward confession: but it is vnpossible that any should have the Christian like nature in him in deed and truth / but he wil also confesse Christ with his mouth; or weep bitterly with‡Mat. 26. 75 Peter / if through fraylty of the flesh he doe deny him. Wheras therfore Gods word requireth both these in Christians; and H. N. would draw these two daughters from the one (namely from outward confessing with the mouth / ) vnderunder pretense and colour of the other / (namely of having Christs shape within them:) he dealeth deceitfully / and not according to truth. It is / as if he should allure them to fornication; and when they alleged against him Gods Law / Heb. 12. 16. Let ther be no fornicator &c. he should answer / true, but the meaning you vnderstand not; many suppose that the chastity of body, is the right chastitie; no my beloved no, the godly chastitie must stand in greater force & effect then to be in the outward or elementish body, for so the Pharisees vnderstood the Law of old; but Christ applyeth it against the lusts of the hart. Mat. 5. 27. 28. If this reasoning be naught / so is H. Ns. about confessing Christ. For as Gods word requiring chastitie / intendeth it both of the body and of the mind: so when it requireth confessing of Christ / it meaneth both with mouth and hart / as is playnly set down Rom. 10. 10.
Other deadly poison hath H. N. here touched / as where he sayth Christ in his like Being must have his shape in the man; wherby he meaneth such a kind of trāsubstātiatiō / as that Christ and the man, should be one substance one being; yea the Lovely vertuous being in man / that is his Christ / as before I have shewed. This opinion is not possible to be warranted by holy writ / but is the mere invention of this Antichristian. Christ our redeemer / is in his own substance and person / in heaven at Gods right hand / Mark. 16. 19. Act. 3. 21. but we are|Eccles. 5. 1. on earth / and Christ dwelleth not otherwise in vsus thē by fayth / Ephe. 3. 17. which faith purifieth the hart / Act. 15. 9. and worketh by Love Gal. 5. 6. and fayth / which is the evidence|Heb. 11. 1. of things not seen / apprehendeth Gods great and precious promises / which are given vntounto vsus†2 Pet. 1. 4. that by them we should be partakers of the godly nature / in that we flee the corruption which is in the world through lust / (not by having the very substance and Being of God and of Christ / as H. N. grossly imagineth / ) and wayt with pacience for the second coming of our Lord in the clowdes of heaven / at what time both the dead in Christ / and those that are alive / shabe caught vp in the clowds to meet the Lord in the aire / and so shall we ever be with the Lord / as th'Apostle sayth 2 Thes. 4. 17.
An other damnable error / H. N. here hath / saying that through the Christian-like nature, ther is subdued among all those where the same is born out of grace, the death Divil and hell. Wherby he would teach vsus to be our own saviours / we our selves must conquer the death divil and hell; for as wee have heard our own Lovely Being / that is H. Ns. Christ. And wheras the Apostles teach vsus / that forgivnes of syns is by Gods imputation of Christs righteousnes and death / and not imputing our syns vntounto vsus / and that our fayth in Christ is imputed vntounto vsus for justice; Rom. 4. 6. 8. 24. 25. 2 Cor. 5. 19. H. N. hath put imitation in stead of imputation / saying / that |H. N. First exhort. c. 20. sec. 19.through the dayly God-service and offring in the Holy, in the taking vp of our crosse, in the Imitation of Christ in his death, we obteyn the remission of syns. Therfore he willeth vsus to†ibid sec. 26. 27. follow after Christ in his suffring, for those are the dayes of affliction heavines and death, wherin Christ hath gone before vsus in the Holy, for to prepare vsus throuh the same death of the crosse, the everlasting forgivnes and redemtion of syns. Agayn in his book called The spiritual land of peace, |chap. 8. sec. 5 6.he telleth vsus of an Instrument wherwith all enimies be overcome. This instrument of victorie is the crosse of Christ; (not that which Christ / of whome we read in the scriptures / died himself on / and triumphed in the same over the principalities and powers / Col. 2. 15. but that which we bear in imitation of Christ / ) & it is named patience or sufferance / (such as is mentioned Heb. 12. 1. Iam. 5. 7.) and it (sayth H. N.) is the true altar in the Holy, vponupon the which the true meat offring is, that is given to the faithful beleeving travellers to eat, and also the true drink offring that is given them to drink, which meat offring is named the flesh or body of Iesu Christ, and the drink offring is named the blood of Iesu Christ. And the same body and blood of Iesu Christ, is vntounto the constant & faithful traveiler in the proceeding on in his pilgrimage, a true mediator to lay away the syn in the flesh, & to establish the promises with him that are made to the Fathers. Thus the things which are spoken of Christ and his oblation of himself / and of our partaking therof|Ioh. 6. 29. 35. by faith; this man perversly applyeth to our own patient suffrings; and maketh Patience to be our victory, contrarie to the evident doctrine of the Apostle / who sayth that it is Faith, 1 Iohn 5. 4 5. Agayn, the scriptures teach not that our Christianlike nature / but that Christ himself in his own person for vsus by death destroyed him that had the power of death which is the Divil / and so delivered al vsus his children which for feare of death wer all our life time subject to bondage / Heb. 2. 14. 15. but H. N. teacheth that Christs death / is our like suffring / as appeareth by his First exhortation |chap. 20. sec. 3.where he sayth that the man ought in his yongnes, to learn to take vp his crosse on him, to follow after Christ, his Saviour, in his like suffering and death of the crosse, and to shew forth patience with Christ, against all the assaultings, vntil that all the enemies or adversaries of the Lovely life, through the †Rom. 6. 4. 1 Cor. 15. f.death of Christ, (that is, in maner of suffering,) be vtterly vanquished. By these wordes / and the scriptures which he quoteth / it is playne / that he meaneth our own suffrings in imitation of Christ / to be our vanquishing the enimies / and our salvation: which heresie he every where out of his own carnal wisdome vrgeth and perswadeth / to the dishonor of our Lord Jesus / and magnifying mens own sufferings and merits.
And if we look further what H. N. meaneth by his Death, Divil, and Hel; we shal find these also to be idols and fictions of his own; that in deed his victory / is like his Christ; even erroneous fabulous and blasphemous. The holy scriptures teach vsus of a death in syn, (when men are wholly given over therevnto / ) Ephe, 2. 1. contrary to which is a death to syn / by sanctification of life Rom. 6. 2. They teach vsus also of a death for syn, (that is a reward of eternal punishment in hel.) Rom. 6. 23. Gen. 2. 17. Iam. 1. 14. called the second death, Rev. 2. 21. & 20. 14. VntoUnto which the Divils and all reprobate men shalbe condemned for ever and ever for their syns at Christs appearing; Mat. 25. 41. 46. Now H. N. (playing the part of the old Serpent / which perswade▪ Evah that|Gen. 3. she should not die / ) perswadeth his disciples that here in this present world and life / is death and hel; so the judgement / the fyre / the condemnation threatned in the scriptures; he maketh fantastical imaginations or humane affections. For as with him / the Love / and to †1 Exhort. chap. 12. sec. 23. 24. 33.walk in the Lovely & vertuous Being / is Christ himself: so on the other hand inveighing against them that speak evil by the service of Love / and the minister of the same; he sayth / their|ibid. chap. 15 sec. 17. false Being is the Divil, the Antichrist, the wicked Spirit, the kingdome of Hel, and the Majestie of the Divil himself. Now the punishment for this / is the Sentence which H. N. (who as we have heard / vaunteth that he sits on the throne of Christ to judge the world) pronounceth: his condemnation of the false Being / is eternal death and hel fyre / as appeareth by his Crying voice, †chap. 3. sec. 2. 3. 4.where he calleth al men to himself / to Come al and cōfesse their syns / and make known vncoveredly the inwardnes of their harts / to the end that they may become justified or purged from all their synnes, and received into the holy Communialty of the Love / when as now in thissame day the wicked world becommeth judged with the Lords mighty hand. Which wicked world (sayth he) is reserved or kept in store til vntounto this same day of the Love, to the fyre of hell, for to be condemned in the self same day of the Love, for evermore, to her eternal cursing & judgement of the fyers cruel vehemencie. And a little after he addeth,|sec. 4. Verily, now in thissame day, when as now all vngodly, and all selfwise, with al vnrepentant persons, and false harts of the scripture-learned &c. inherite with much smart and grief in the vehement crueltie of the fyre of hel, the terrible condemnation: then shal the people of God / namely, the whol communialty of the Love of Iesu Christ &c. rejoyce them in all Love &c.: And that this their joy / is like Epicures in this present world and life / and in their counterfeyt regeneration and godded estate: he elswhere playnly confirmeth / saying that in their citie of Peace |Spirit. land. chap. 27. sec. 11. 12.there is a watchman on the wal therof / that hath a trumpet named After-this-time-no-time-more; and that the watchmā foūdeth out of the same last time / as out of the last trumpet, the sound of the everlasting life, after the which there is no life more to be wayted for, for the same life continueth for evermore. Therfore in the conclusion of his Crying voice when he had bidden all†sec. 5. Come now hither to the Love and her service; he addeth / |sec. 18.Come now al hither to the Paradise of your Lord and God &c. Come in now all hither to the Paradise of the Love, and pluck in her garden the tender Olives; |Sec. 24.Become drunken with the wine of her soon-ripe grapes, and embrace her to al concordable friendlynes. Thus like an harlot, he allureth men to his religion / and imitateth the whore of Babylon which|Rev. 17. 2. made the inhabitants of the earth drunken with the wine of her fornications. For his vaine conceyted Lovely Being, with the toyes and pleasures that men imagine in that estate / is a fooles paradise, wher men become drunken and besotted in syn / and drowned in perdition. This is H. Ns. heaven; and they that are not here / he thinks they are in hel; yea playnly sayth / (in his new gospel / )†Evang reg. chap. 27. sec. 5. that the second death is come and beareth dominion over the world, and all vnbeleevers. By this the discreet reader may see / what a Christ and salvation H. N. doth teach, and what a Death Divil and Hel / the Nicholaitans or Familists doe subdue. This wretched man seemeth to have written his books in scorn of al true religiō, that Atheisme and Epicurisme / vnderunder shew of religiō mought reign in the earth.
H. N.
13. Herevpon mought some men say, ye would have the man perfect. No, my beloved, no; I speak not of the perfection of the man, but I speak of the perfectnes which Christ ought to have with the man, before he can be confessed or acknowledged. The man in his vnregenerated spirit is vnperfect, I speak not thereof, but what he is, that is he out of grace, without cause of boasting.
14. Therfore let every one look wel vntounto it that he be not self-minded in his vncertayn forecasts or preconceiving: but that he take heed, or be wel advised, whither he be worthy to receive the same grace of God.
H. A.
THat which David sayth of the wicked man / that†Psal. 1…. 7. his mouth is ful of deceit and frawd, vnderunder his tongue is mischief and iniquitie: is verifyed of H. N. in his deceitful writings. He seemeth here at first / as if he would not have the man perfect; no, my beloved, (crieth he at it) no; but presently from vnderunder his tongue floweth out mischief and iniquitie; when he speaks of the perfectnes which Christ ought to have with the man, before he can be confessed▪ This is a depth of Satan / to bring men into misery vnderunder colour of perfection; and to abolish them from Christ / whiles they may imagine / he is perfectly with them. Though Christ (I mean the true Christ whom we professe / not the idol which H. N. feighneth of the Lovely Being / ) be in himself perfect / yea perfectiou it self; and though the work that he hath done for vsus / be also perfect; because with one offring he|Heb. 10. 14. hath consecrated for ever them that are sanctified / and his blood†1 Ioh. 1. 7. hath clensed vsus from all syn: yet his work in vsus is yet vnperfect even in the best men that ever confessed Christ whiles they lived on earth; who therfore were taught every day to pray that|Luk. 11. 4. their syns might be forgiven them: and the Apostle Paul / after he had long confessed and preached Christ truly / sayth of himself / †Phil. 3. 12.Not as though I were already perfect, and agayn, *Rom. 7. 19.I do not the good thing which I would, but the evil which I would not that do I; and agayn / †1 Cor. 13. 9. 10. 12.we know in part, and we prophesie in part, but when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part, shalbe abolished; now wee see through a glasse darkly, but then (shal we see) face to face &c. But H. N. by an other spirit which perswadeth him: that he is|Gen. 3. like God / yea Godded with God; writeth of his citie or communialtie and those that are come vntounto it / that†Spirit. land chap. 33. sec. 9. as then there is no more evil, nor evil suspition, nor yet sight of evil in them; for within the same, one doth neyther see nor think any thing els, but all good, joy, rest and peace, in the everlasting life. Such a societie hath yet never been heard of on earth since Adams fall / neyther doth the historie of the bible shew vsus any such church; onelyonly it telleth vsus / ther is a generatiō yt at pure in their own eyes, which yet ar not washed from their filthines, Pro. 30 12. If the Familists be this generation, they may rejoyce in the sparks of the fyre that they hav kindled / til they shal lie down in sorow. As for vsus / we have learned of a better teacher / that there is|Eccle. 7. 22. no man iust in the earth that doeth good and synneth not, but†Iam 3. 2. in many things we syn all, for syn yet|Rom 7. 7. dwelleth in vsus / and if we should say we have no syn / we should but†1 Ioh. 1. 8. deceive our selves / and the truth were not in vsus. Yet know we that our confession of Christ / is acceptable vntounto him / because he‡Psal. 103. 8…. pardoneth all our iniquities / and healeth al our infirmities / hath*Rev. 1. 5. washed vsus from our syns in his blood / and wil not impute them vntounto vsus.
Wheras H. N. to help the matter / sayth The man in his vnregenerated spirit is vnperfect / he followeth but his wonted course to deceive the readers; for none are so grosse as to think the vnregenerated man is perfect; neyther is this the question between him and vsus; but whither the regenerated be perfect or no / which H. N. erroneously holdeth but cannot prove; we contraryweise have proved that the Apostles and other Christians were regenerated / but not perfect / whiles they lived here on earth among men / Phil. 3. Rom. 7. 1 Cor. 13. Iam. 3.
H. N.
15. Now mought ye say, we encline or endevour our selves therafter, so much as we may, for we have given our selves to the Christian-like baptismey and supper of the Lord.
16. Oh my beloved, that were very wel, if it were even so in the truth; for ther ar many that boast themselves of the baptismey of Christ, and they have not known him in any world. For were they baptised in Christ, then should they have put on Christ, even like as Paul sayth to the Galathians 3. so many of you as are baptised have put on Christ.
17. I would gladly now ask of al those which say they have received the Christianlike baptismey, how or after what maner Christ hath a shape or fashion in them. I am verie sure, that they all for the most part should be deceived, and should find themselves vnmighty or weak in that Being of Christ, wherin many should make manifest themselves, that they have not received the baptismey of Christ, but their own baptismey.
18 Everie one therfore that is vpright of hart, and seeketh the truth in Christ vnpartially, let him prove himself how he hath put on Christ, according to the spirit. And if he then finde not the stirring of the holy spirit of Christ in him, then let him advisedly look sharply yea sharply herevnto, that he boast not himself of the Christianity, but let him humble himself before the might of the Lord, and trust vponupon his grace.