The Observer of Time, Dialogues · Dialogue 2
❀The ſecond Dialoge.
☞The Collocutors. The Temporiſour. Ireneus, and Euſebius.
☞Temporiſour.
I Was verye yll aduyſed, when I procured Mondayn to heare oure diſputacion. In mine opinion he is a very wicked man: it is to be feared that he wyll vtter all oure communication vntounto the Maieſtrates. Wel, an other tyme I wyll be better aduyſed. I wyll make ſpede to cal Ireneus: he is accuſtomed about this tyme of the daye commonlye to be at home. I wyll ſee yf he be there.
☞Ireneus.
Some body knocketh at the gate. Boye, go open the dore.
☞Temporiſour.
What doeſt thou Ireneus?
☞Ireneus.
Nothing, but loke here in an olde boke.
☞Temporiſour.
For aſmuch as thou haſt no great buſynes, would it not pleaſe thee to accompanye me to the houſe of Euſebius?
☞Irenius.
What to do?
☞Temporiſour.
To deuyſe and commune together.
☞Ireneus.
Paraduenture he is not at leaſure.
☞Temporiſour.
Yes, that he is. And in ſo doyng thou ſhalt do him great pleaſure.
☞I…eneus.
Well, I wyl go with thee, I wyl not refuſe the company and communicati… of honeſt mē.
¶Temporiſour.
I wyll go in before to leade thee the waye, for I am better acquaynted with thys houſe then thou. I am here Euſebie, and here is alſo Ireneus. Yf there be nothing happened ſince, let vsus purſew our former communication.
☞Euſebius.
There is ſome thing happened ſince youre beyng here, but what then? it behoueth vsus alway…s to prefarre thoſe thinges that concerne our ſaluacion, before all other matters.
☞Ireneus.
Yf there be any ſecrete matter betwixt you, I wyll withdraw my ſelfe?
☞Euſebius.
There is nothinge ſo ſecrete amongeſt vsus, but we can be contented to communicate theſame vntounto thee. We began not long ago to diſpute: yf it be lawfull for a man, knowing the worde of God, to be preſent at the papiſticall ſeruices. And this queſtion was fyrſte moued by oure frend here Temporiſour, and for thys cauſe is he come hyther nowe, to vnderſtande myne aduyſe herein.
☞Ireneus.
Ye knowe righte well both of you, howe I hauehave alwayes behaued my ſelfe in this variete of religion. Seking nothing ſo much as to liue in peace and quietneſſe, for the mayntenaunce whereof I hauehave contemned neither of the parties: but vſed my ſelfe with indifferencye towardes them both, hauinge alwayes thys deſire, that by ſome good meanes theſe quarelles might be qualified, and cōtencions accorded, that ſo much do alienate the hartes of the faith full, and cauſe the wycked an vnbeleuers to mocke our chriſtianite. And with the like good wyll I wyll be preſent at this your collatiō, yf it pleaſe you.
☞Euſebius.
Syt here then. Aſſiſte vsus O Chriſt by thy holy ſpyryte.
☞Temporiſour.
Now yf it pleaſe thee Euſebie, cōſider dyligently the matter, whereof we talked a lyttle before.
☞Euſebius.
I wyl do it gladly, with this conditiō, that ye both with me, wyl dyligently conſyder this matter, not as a thinge particularely appertey ninge vntounto one, but as a matter common to all perſones, to thende that priuate affection and ſelfe louelove, do leade vsus to nothinge beſyde the trueth. And for aſmuch as by this our collatiō our purpoſe is not to ſearche out abare knowledge without effecte, but rather a perfect obedience, ſuche as apperteyneth to God and to his trueth: Tell me therfore (I pray thee) Temporiſour, before we go any further in this matter:Nota. what reuerence thou wilte beare vntounto the trueth, when thou ſhalt be made to knowe theſame, without any contradiction?
¶Temporiſour.
Wherto ſerueth this queſtion?
☞Euſebius.
Whereto? I wyl tell thee at ones. To thend we would not labour in vayne, for the glorye of God, and thy ſaluation: for wherto ſhall it ſerue to beate the eyre with our wordes? Yf yu be not reſolued in thy conſcience, (after thou knoweſt the truth) to frame thy lyfe according vntounto the ſame in refuſing al vnlawful thinges? Whereto ſhall we ſpende ſo manye wordes in vayne: And not onelye in vayne, but rather to prouoke the iudgemente of God to fall more greuouſly vponupon thee, and to incenſe his indignation agaynſt the. Art thou ignoraunt of this ſayinge of Chriſt: The ſeruaunt knowing, and not doyng, ſhalbe greuouſly puniſhed? & therfore fyrſt of all determyne with thy ſelfe what thou wylte do, when thou ſhalte knowe, what thing is commaunded, and what thinge is inhybited.
☞Temporiſour.
Now can I promyſe any thing before hand what I wyll do, ſeynge it is not in myne owne power, but cometh of the grace of god: Leaue that then to the grace of God, and beginne as I hauehave deſyred thee, to conſydre and examyne this matter.
☞Euſebius.
I do not demaund (O Temporiſour) what thing thou wylt do, hauing knowen the truth, but wherto thou art preſently inclyned? I demaund not of the thing to come, but what the intencion of thyne harte is nowe. It is two thinges, to ſay what thou purpoſeſt to do, and to ſay what thou ſhalt do. As touchīg thinges to come: It behoueth him that hath a good wil and is already inclined to godlines, to aſke the grace of God for the performaūce of the ſame. But where as there is no wyl, nor determined purpoſe, to do the thinges that are godli: it behoueth him fyrſte of all to deſyre God to geue him a wyll to do well, who onelye (as witneſſeth the Apoſtle) accompliſheth and worketh in vsus as well the wyl, as the dede. Proteſt and expreſſe therfore here (O Temporiſour) what wyl thou haſt preſently, to thend that I knowing and vnderſtanding the ſame, may wade in this matter accordingly. I pray thee Ireneus, is not this my requeſt reaſonable? Ireneus.
I cānot denye it. For who is ſo much a beaſt that doeth not well perceyue the great follye yt reſteth in him that is ſycke, who continuallye calleth for the phiſition, and whē he hath him, wyl not folow his counſayl? Temporiſour.
Yet I cannot expreſſe, what I hauehave purpoſed to do, ſo much am I perplexed in my mind, which is as yet inclyned hether and thether, without any reſolued determinatiō. God peraduenture wyll ſettle my mynde to ſome good ende, after that I am aduertyſed and reſolued of the truth: & therfore I pray the (O Euſebie) proceade vntounto the matter. Euſebius.
The condition of mans mynde is very miſerable, when that onelyonly we knowe not what we ſhall do hereafter, but that leaſt is, we are ignoraunt of that we wyll preſentlye. But go to my frende Temporiſour, for aſmuche as thou art not able to make declaration of thy wyl, at leaſt wayes declare vntounto vsus, what it is that yu deſyreſt withall thy hart: thou ſhalt fynde dyuers that do complayne that they cannot feale in themſelues no determyned purpoſe & wyll: and therfore do vnfaynedly wiſhe and deſyre, that they maye hauehave ſuche a purpoſed wyll as they do not as yet feale in theyr hartes.
☞Temporiſour.
I do moſt earneſtly deſyre a ſtabliſhed purpoſe and wyll. But to affirme that I hauehave theſame all ready in my harte, I dare not.
¶Euſebius.
Yf thy deſire be ſuche, that thou mayſt ones ſettle thy harte and mynde thorowely, in that thing, wherin it is not as yet ſtabliſhed, …hou haſte no cauſe to diſpayre, but rather to praye vntounto God oure father, to ſtabliſhe in thy harte this purpoſe to wyll well, and fynally to leade thee vntounto the trew and perfect deſyre and ſtudye of godlynes by wel doyng.
¶Temporiſour.
I wyl dyligently fo…ow thy counſayl: wherin I deſyre thee to helpe me with thy prayers. But I pray thee now beginne to aunſwere my preſent queſtion. Euſebius.
I wyll moſt gladly ſatiſfye thy requeſte in both.Thre maner of cō munications. Fyrſt of all it is moſt certayn, that there are three maner of communications in religiō. The one is neceſſary and of neceſſitie. The other is indifferent and lawefull. The thyrd is neyther lawefull nor indifferent, but all together vnlawful and prohibyted. In the firſt are compryſed al thoſe thinges without the which no man can be ſaued: and in this part, this queſtiō hath no place, to wytte, whether the thing be lawfull, or no? Temporiſour.
I confeſſe the ſame. But what are thoſe thinges that are of neceſſitie neceſſary?Thynges neceſſary
☞Euſebius.
The trew and perfect knowledge of God ye father, and of his ſonne whom he hath ſente, Ieſus Chriſt. The trewe lyuely fayth, and the confeſſion of the ſame, vnfayned repentaunce, lawfull obedience, feare and reuerence of god, inuocation & prayer with faith, hope of good thinges to come, patience in perſecution and affliction, trewe and perfect louelove of God, and of our neyghbours,Out of ye church ther is no ſaluation & other lyke thinges, with out the which we cannot be ſaued. For by the communicating of theſe thinges, we do communicate with all the electe of God, without whoſe company and felowſhip there is no ſaluation to be hoped for. Ireneus.
There are very few Euſebie that do enquire after this maner of cōmunication. Euſebius
So much is the world blinded. The ſeconde maner of communication is, as I ſayd before, indifferent, tollerable, and lawfull, herein are compryſed all thoſe thinges, that are free, indifferent and lawfull. Temporiſour.
What are they? Euſebius.
All thoſe thinges that are not of them ſelues agaynſt the worde of grace, which is the goſpell: to wyte, meate, drinke, clothing, obſeruation of dayes, and all other obſeruations, by ye which the puritie of the chriſtian fayth is not violated nor defyled. To communicate in theſe thinges with the faythfull, yf it be free, it is alſo lawfull: and yf it tende to charitie, it is alſo expedient.
☞Ireneus.
What is that, that thou ſayeſt: yf it be free, it is alſo lawfull? Euſebius.
I ſayd it meaning thereby to exclude all tyrannye, by the which thoſe thinges that of thē ſelues are free, to do them, or to leaue them vndone (of the whiche alſo we hauehave receyued no commaundement of God) are neuertheleſſe cō maunded to be done vnderunder the payne of deadly ſinne: wherby the conſciences of the chriſtians, which ought to be free, are made captyue and bonde to the commaundementes of men. For I affyrme that thoſe thinges hauehave vtterly loſt theyr freedō, that otherwyſe in thē ſelues are free, when that eyther through coſtume, or lawes they are commaūded to be obſerued as thinges neceſſary (as witneſſeth the Apoſtle.Colloſſ. 2) Let noman (ſayth he) trouble your conſcience, about meate, or drinke, or a pece of a holy day, &c. And afterwarde (he ſayth) ye are redemed with a great pryce, make not your ſelfes therefore the bond ſeruauntes of men. Ireneus.
Some would here reply agaynſt you, …hat the wordes of the Apoſtle to the Colloſſians by you aledged, do nothinge ſerue to the purpoſe. In aſmuche as he doeth not there ſpeake any thing of the cōmaundemētes of the church but of the commaundementes of the Moyeſical lawe: for aſmuch as in his tyme ſome went about to make thoſe commaundementes neceſſary.
¶Euſebius.
It is trewe, that the Apoſtle ſpeaketh there of the obſeruation of the lawe: but I pray thee conſydre, yf there be anye reaſon, to bynde the conſciences of men by the commaundementes of Biſhops: ſeyng that the commaundemētes of the lawe do not bynd them, which were not eſtabliſhed by men, but by God? Ireneus.
I maynteyne nothing: but I hauehave alledged that nowe, that here tofore I hauehave heard of other men, onelyonly adding there vntounto this worde. That thoſe commaundementes that thou calleſt the Biſhoppes cōmaundemētes,Cōmaundements of the Church. other mē cal them the commaundementes of the church, and therfore neceſſarye.
¶Euſebius.
Of what church?
☞Ireneus.
That inquyre thou of them.
¶Euſebius.
But thou Temporiſour, what is thyne opinion herein?
¶Temporiſour.
No church of Chriſt hath any auctorite to commaunde in the houſe of God,Nota. but onelyonly to obeye. For ſhe is the wyfe, and not myſtreſſe.
☞Ireneus.
As a wyfe ſhe is ſubiecte to obeye her huſband, who is Ieſus Chriſt: and yet for all that ſhe ceaſeth not to hauehave auctoritie ouer hyr chyldren, to commaunde them: ſo ſay our Doctors.
¶Euſebius.
I know it well ynough. But I praye thee, which be hyr chyldren to whom ſhe may commaunde?
¶Ireneus.
I thinke, all thoſe that be Chriſtians.
¶Euſebius.
Who is then, this commaundinge church, yf al chyldrē are but the chyldrē of the church? I ſuppoſed that the church is ſo compyled and and knyt together of Chriſtians, as the bodye is, of certayn mēbres. But theſe people ſpeake as yf there were ſome one churche by it ſelfe, yt hath auctoritie to commaunde all chriſtiā people, as hyr chyldren. Ireneus.
They call this church Catholyke and Apoſtolicall.The Catholyke church.
¶Euſebius.
In this church is comprehended al chriſtiā people. Yf this be the church that they meane, I would gladly know in what place was there euer this catholyke and vniuerſall aſſemble of chriſtians: in the whiche was ordeyned theſe commaundementes, that they cal the cōmaundementes of the church? Ireneus.
It is not poſſible that all Chriſtian people could aſſemble together in one place. But they ſay: that the Romayne church is abled into the place therof, ſo that all that euer ſhe ordeyned, is auctoryſed as yf it were done by the vniuerſall church. Euſebius.
They ſaye ſo: but howe do they proue it? Who hath geuen the Churche of Rome thys power?
¶Temporiſour.
We go cleane frō our matter: let vsus referre this queſtion of the auctoritie of the churche vntounto another tyme, and returne to oure former purpoſe, from the which we hauehave ſtrayed.
¶Euſebius.
Thou ſayeſt wel. Tel me thē Temporiſour, doeſt thou reken and place the papiſticall ſeruices amongeſt thoſe thinges that are free, indifferent, and lawefull, or no?
¶Temporiſour.
The papiſtes themſelues do not ſaye, that thei are free and indifferent, but neceſſary: but as for me, I do not exteme them amōgeſt thoſe thinges that are lawful and free, but rather amongeſt thoſe that are prohybyted.
¶Euſebius.
Thou haſt geuen a good iudgement. Let vsus now come to the thyrd maner of communicatiō the which we call prohibyted or forbodē. Here in are compryſed all thoſe thinges that are cō trary to the worde of God, as are all falſe ſeruyces, ſuperſticions, mennes decrees without the auctoritie of the worde, inuocation of deadſaynctes, and ſuche other lyke conſtitucions.
¶Temporiſour.
Amongeſt the which noumbre, I iudge the papiſtical ſeruyces to hauehave place, of the which now we are in queſtion, wherfore tell me yf it be lawfull by any meanes to participate at the ſame?
¶Ireneus.
I geue you leaue to iudge in theſe thinges as it ſhall ſeme vntounto you good, although I can not accorde there vntounto with you, yet I am contentend to heare what concluſion you wyl make of this queſtion.
¶Euſebius.
I cōmende thy modefiye, Irenie: but come on Temporiſour, thou aſkeſt yf it be lawful by any meanes to communicate and be preſent at vnlawfull ſeruyces. Fyrſte tell me what thou meaneſt by this, by any meanes? wherfore rather doeſt not thou playnly demaunde, yf it be all together lawfull to communicate all maner of wayes at theſe vnlawfull ſeruyces.
¶Temporiſour.
I vnderſtand that there areThe communication of diſſemblers .ij. maner of cō munications: one is, in opiniō, wyl, affectiō, & mynd. The other is only outwardly as it were in a certayne outward behauiour: & foraſmuch as my communication is, neyther in opinion, wyll nor mynd, but only in outward ieſture, I do not aſke therfore, whether euerye maner of cōmunication be lawful (for I know the fyrſte to be altogether vnlawfull,) but I requyre to know yf it be lawfull to communicate by anye meanes, vnderſtāding therby the outward ſociete and communication.
☞Euſebius.
Thinkeſt thou that thou doeſt not ſinne at all, by this outward ſociete and coniunction wt the vngodly in their ſuperſticiōs, becauſe thou doeſt not inwardly conſent thereunto?
¶Temporiſour.
I ſuppoſe ſo: and therefore I make inquiſition thereof.
☞Ireneus.
Geue me leaue Temporiſour, to ſaye myne opinion. Thou ſemeſt vntounto me to do in this behalfe, as yf one beyng apprehended amongeſt theues in cōmitting of theyr robberyes, would excuſe himſelf before the iudge that he dyd not ſteale, alledging that he ſtale with thē agaynſt hys harte and mynd.
¶Temporiſour.
Thou ſpeakeſt very rudelye: and yet neuertheleſſe, thou cōmunicateſt aſwel as I, at theſe papiſtical ſeruices, outw…rdly.
¶Ireneus.
It is trew, & inwardly alſo, & doe not condemne my ſelf in ſo doynge, for I exteme that to be laweful, that ye ſay to be vnlawful.
¶Euſebius.
Although Ireny… thy laſt ſaying be falſe & vntrew, yet dyddeſt thou before (in my iudgement) applye not farre amis the compariſon of the theſe vntounto the facte and queſtion of temporiſour. But tell me now Tēporiſour, yf in theſe papiſticall ſeruices, ſhere were committed, adulteryes, thefte, and effuſion of innocēt bloud, wouldeſt thou be preſent at them?
☞Temporiſour.
No, although I were conſtrayned.
☞Euſebius.
Wherefore?
☞Temporiſour.
Becauſe I could not be there without ſinne.
☞Euſebius.
Thou canneſt not be without ſinne (as thou confeſſeſt thy ſelfe) in beynge preſent and aſſiſting of them that offend agaynſt the ſeconde table, and yet thou aſkeſt yf it be lawful to cō municate with thoſe that ſinne, (not agaynſt ye ſeconde table) but that worſte is, agaynſte the fyrſt.
☞Temporiſour.
Truth it is, that they doe ſinne agaynſt the fyrſt table through theyr ſuperſticion, & impiete of their hartes,and what is it that gydeth ye body thither. but I doe not ſo, for aſmuch as I do not communicate with them in harte & mynde, but only in body and outward ieſture. But in the ſociete and felowſhip of adulterers and theues, I cannot outwardly ioyne my ſelf thereunto without ſinne:who euer ſaw a body wtout a hart come to the Maſſe? for then I ſhould do agaynſt the commaundemētes of God, which doe not onelye condemne the affections of the …nynde, but alſo the outward facte of the body.
☞Euſebius.
Wel thē, thou groundeſt only al falſe ſeruices vpō the ſuperſticion & impiete of the hart, and that, which is onelye done outwardlye, is no ſynne: and herein thou thinkeſt thy ſelfe to be excuſed, in aſmuch as thou doeſt only commyt theſe thinges outwardly, without hauing any reputacion or good opinion of the ſaid ſeruyces, and ſuppoſeſt that thou doeſt not committe Idolatrie with the Images of the dead ſainctes, (in aſmuch as thou abhorreſt them in thy hart) although thou do outwardly crouche and knel… before them.
¶Temporiſour.
I thinke ſo in dede.
☞Euſebius.
Tell me thē: yf thou hadſt liued in the tyme of Daniel, what other counſayl wouldeſt thou hauehave geuē to the thre yong men, thē that, which thou thinkeſt preſently to be lawfull? or els yf thou hadſt bene in theyr place, wouldeſt thou not hauehave done, as yu doeſt now? Thou wouldſt hauehave obeyed the Kynges commaundemēt, and hauehave kneled downe with the reſte.
¶Temporiſour.
No that I would not, for yf I had done ſo, it had bene ſynne.
¶Euſebius.
Wherfore? Couldeſt thou not outwardlye hauehave ſatiſfyed the Kynges commaundemente by outward ieſture & worſhipping, reſeruinge alwayes vntounto god the adoration and worſhipping of thy hart?
¶Temporiſour.
Yf I ſhould ſay: that they might outwardly hauehave obeyed the Kynges commaundemente with the reſt, I am afrayde to condemne thoſe m…rtyrs of God, that withoute anye neceſſitie they dyd abandon theyr lyuēs into daunger: & therfore it is better to confeſſe the trueth.
¶Euſebius.
Thou confeſſeſt then, that in all falſe ſeruyces of Idolatrye, they do not onelyonly ſynne, that beyng ſeduced through the errour of theyr vnderſtandinge, conſente there vntounto with theyr hart, but all thoſe alſo that by outward ieſture do communicate with them?
☞Temporiſour.
I confeſſe thy ſayinge to be trewe in the example of the three young men, which thou alledgeſt, but not in my doynges.
¶Euſebius.
Wherfore?It is all one, for ye adoratyō of al creatures is generally prohibited.
☞Temporiſour.
For there it behoued them to worſhippe the Image of a Panym and Heathen Prince: but our worſhippīg (as diuers affirme) is another kynde of adoration.
¶Euſebius.
As touching that poynt we wyll debate the ſame more amplye here afterwardes in tyme & place whē occaſion ſhall better ſerue. But now the queſtion is, yf that which thou doeſt, may be excuſed, by that thou doeſt communicate at the papiſticall ſeruyces, not with thy mynde, but with the body onelyonly. I hauehave gladly cōfarred this thine excuſe, with thē example of thoſe thre yong mē, to thend thou mighteſt perceyue that thing not to be lawful, which thou ſuppoſeſt to be laweful.
¶Temporiſour.
I am almoſt caught.
¶Euſebius.
What aunſwereſt thou to that which the Apoſtle ſayth:Rom. 14. the .xiiij. to the Romaynes: what ſoeuer is not of fayth, the ſame is ſinne? Thou canſt not in fayth be preſent and communicate at thoſe ſeruyces which thou condēneſt: wherfore all thy doynges therein is ſinne, becauſe yu doeſt not the ſame in fayth.
¶Temporiſour.
Howe can I commnnicate in fayth at that thing, which clearely repungneth agaynſt the word of God, which is the onelyonly ground and foundation of fayth?
☞Euſebius.
Thou ſayeſt trewe: for vndoubtedlye thou canſt not communicate in fayth at that thinge which thy conſcience condemneth.
¶Temporiſour.
I condemne it truely.
¶Euſebius.
Then arte thou alſo condemned in aſmuche as that thou doeſt, is not of fayth.
¶Temporiſour.
Geue me the new Teſtamēt that I my ſelfe may ſee that texte.
¶Euſebius.
Holde, and reade it: it is in the ende of the Chapter.
☞Temporiſour.
Harken what the Apoſtle ſayth: Happy is he that condemneth not him ſelf, in the thinge which he alloweth, for he that maketh cōſciēce to eate, is damned yf he eate, becauſe he eateth not of fayth: for whatſoeuer is not of fayth the ſame is ſynne. In myne opinion, the Apoſtle doeth not ſpeake here of vnlawful thinges, but of thinges free and lawfull, to wyte of meates which may be vſed with a ſafe conſcience. And yf any do vſe the ſame agaynſt his cōſcience in that he thinketh not the facte lawful, that perſon condemneth hym ſelf, for aſmuch as he eareth not in fayth. But what ſerueth this to our queſtion, which is not of indifferent and lawful thinges, but of thoſe thinges that are of thē ſelfes vnlaweful? & as for me, in my doynges I do not condemne my ſelf although I do not inwardly approue theſe papiſticall ſeruices.
☞Ireneus.
Me thinketh that the obiection of Temporiſour is ſomewhat pithy and ſtronge.
¶Euſebius.
Truth it is, that the Apoſtle ſpeaketh there but of thinges lawful and free. But for al that conſidre (I pray thee) yf he be condmned that doeth a lawfull and free thing without fayth, becauſe he doeth not alowe theſame, but condmneth it, and might for all that doe the ſame withoute ſinne, yf he dyd alowe it, and dyd it in fayth: what ſhall we ſaye of thoſe that doe thinges, that are of them ſelues al together vnlawful, which alſo they condemne? In the doynge wherof they cā hauehave no fayth, for aſmuch as they do not allowe the ſame. Yf a medecyne that of it ſelfe is good, becometh hurtfull thorough the occaſion of hym that taketh it, what woulde poyſon be to him, yf he receyued theſame? For yf the medecyne euyll taken maye anoye, how much more poyſon?
¶Temporiſour.
I confeſſe that there is poyſon in the papiſticall ſeruices: but my ſoule toucheth it not, but my body onelyonly.
¶Euſebius.
Lykewyſe he that vſeth lawefull and free thinges euyll,Nota. receyueth them only with the body, and not with the ſoule: for in that behalf (that is to ſaye:) in ſpyryte, he doeth abhorre them: and yet neuertheleſſe they condēne him.
¶Temporiſour.
That is trew becauſe they do condemne thē ſelues in theyr doynges: but as for me, I doe not condemne my ſelfe in my doynges, neither yet condemne my fact.
¶Euſebius.
This aunſwere woulde ſerue thee well, yf our queſtion were of indifferent and lawefull thinges. But for all that thou doeſt not condē ne thy ſelfe in the facte of vnlawful & prohibited thinges: thou art neuer the better thereby, but worſe a great deale, then thoſe that beynge blynded with erroure, do not condemne theyr doynges: as peraduenture they would yf they vnderſtode by the worde of God, aſmuche as thou knoweſt.
¶Ireneus.
Yf I knew this to be trew that you ſaye: I woulde neuer be perſwaded to communicate with them.
¶Temporiſour.
Yet agayne I am caught, without knowing any waye to eſcape. The ſaying of the Apoſtle doeth conuince me.
¶Euſebius.
Thou canneſt not fynd a better waye to eſcape, then to geue prayſe vntounto the veritie, and chaunge thyne opiniō. What aunſwereſt thou I pray thee vntounto this generall ſentence: al that is not of fayth is ſynne?Rom. 14. By this ſentēce is not onelyonly condemned all maner of eating without fayth, but alſo generallye all that euer is done without fayth. Where is now become your exteriour communication and coniunction at the papiſticall ſeruices, which thou and other thy ſemblables do vſe, beyng ſo dyrecte contrarye vntounto the worde of God, as your owne conſciē ces do teſtifye in condemning of the ſame?
☞Ireneus.
Yf this be trewe, ſuche people are in greate daunger.
¶Temporiſour.
When I go to the papiſticall ſeruyces,The cogitacion of diſſemblers. I iudge it no great matterto diſſeble outwardli, ſeynge I do reſerue faith perfectly in my hart. I pray thee Euſebie, tel me, what ſemeth vntounto thee of this cogitacion?
¶Euſebie.
For the fyrſt part: Yf thou hauehave fayth in thy harte, tell me, howe can the ſame be counſeled and hyd? Thinkeſte thou that fayth is anydle thing and without facte, and that ſhe maye be ſo hyd in the harte, that ſhe cannot appeare out wardly? Fayth is a fyre: it is impoſſible ether to hide her, or incloſe her, but that ſhe wil ether caſt forth flame or ſmoke.Pſa. cxv. The Prophete ſayth and likewiſe the Apoſtle after him. I hauehave beleued and therfore hauehave I ſpoken. The fayth of the harte is not dombe, but her violence breaketh the barres of the mouth: for of the abundaunce of the harte, the mouth ſpeaketh ſayth Chriſt.Math. xij And the Apoſtle affyrmeth, that to beleue with the harte,Roma. x. iuſtifyeth: but to acknowledge with the mouth, maketh a man ſafe. Take away the confeſſion of the mouth, and then is fayth dead. Wherefore take hede and beware that thy diſſimulation and cōmunication with the papiſtry, do not ſo thorowly hide thy faith that it quenche not al together that litle ſparke of fayth that is in thee. For as the fyre loueth & deſireth a freedom & abundaunce of ayre, euen ſo doth fayth deſyre to be knowen eueryevery wher.
¶Temporiſour.
And I feare the contrary. That yf I manifeſt my fayth vntounto the wicked, that then it wyl happen vntounto me, as vntounto thoſe that ſhow their treaſure and money vntounto theues.Math. v. And more ouer Chriſte himſelfe doeth admoniſhe vsus, that we ſhould not caſt yt (that is holy) vntounto dogges and ſwyne, whereby I am perſwaded that it is better to hyde priuelye this treaſure of faith then that it ſhoulde be knowen of the wycked, (who are to be cōpared vntounto dogges & ſwyne) leaſt haply they do treade the ſame vnderunder their feete, and deſtroy me.
¶Euſebius.
Thou art then afrayde of thy fayth, as yf it lay in the power of the wicked, to take it away from thee. Trueth it is, that theues and robbers may take away oure treaſure and ryches, but the fayth which is in our hartes, cannot be imbeſelled nor ſtollen, no, not of the gates of hell.Math. 16 The confeſſion of the mouth, cauſeth the fayth (that is in the harte) to be knowen: but it neyther deſtroyeth it, nor loſeth it, but rather enterteyneth it, & preſerueth it. For fayth is of ſuche a nature, that yf it be not communicated, it periſheth: ſo much wanteth it that in hydinge it, thou ſhalt preſerue it. Furthermore is it not a greate follye of thee to thinke to hyde thy fayth by diſſimulation: ſeynge that for the ſpace of theſe twentie yeares thou haſt alreadi inanifeſted the ſame to al people? Thinkeſte thou that all thy neyghbours are ſo brutiſhe and ignoraunte that they doe not knowe, that this yt thou doeſt, is no alteration of thine opinion in religion, but rather a certayne diſſimulation? yea, and that not voluntarye, but by violence and feare of the Maieſtrates? Thou feareſt more this thinge, then the loſſe of thy fayth.
¶Temporiſour.
In doyng the ſame (Euſebie) I do obey the counſayl of Chriſt,Math. 10 who ſayeth: beware of mē, for they ſhall delyuer you vp, &c. As alſo, be wyſe as ſerpentes, withoute omittinge of that which I reſyted before: caſt not pearles before dogges and ſwyne, leaſte they treade theſame vnderunder theyr feete, and after retourne and deuour you. Thou knoweſt yt theſe thinges were ſpokē of chriſt, to his faythful flocke, to thende they ſhould more diligentlye take hede to them ſelfes. Wherfore I ſe not why I ſhould be reprehēded in keping ſecrete my preciouſe pearles, and in takinge hede to my ſelfe, leaſt I fall into the handes of the wicked.
☞Euſebius.
I know well ynough the ſayinges of chriſt, which thou haſt alledged for thy defence: wiſſhing withall my harte that we all dyd knowe the ſpyryte of Chriſt. Yf it be not tediouſe vntounto the Temporiſour. I wyll declare vntounto thee, how thou doeſt abuſe thy ſelfe in the allegatiō of theſe ſcriptures.
☞Ireneus.
The houre is paſt, it is tyme to go home to ſupper, one leſſe thou wylt Euſebie, reteyne vsus thy ſelfe.
¶Euſebius.
Ye ſee howe I am prepared to entertayne my frendes, neuertheleſſe yf it pleaſe you to be partaker of ſuche as God ſendeth (wyth me) tarye. And I wyll forthwith cauſe ſome thing to be prepared for ſupper.
¶Temporiſour.
It ſhall not nede Euſebie, that we ſhould ſo many wayes moleſte thee, it hath ſuffiſed that thou haſt paciently heard our fonde communication: we thanke thee for thy good wyll. Neuertheleſſe, to thende I forget not my ſelfe, I praye thee (yf to morowe thou hauehave no greater affayres) that it would pleaſe thee to geue me leaue to hauehave acceſſe vntounto thee for an houre or two, to ende our diſputacion.
¶Euſebius.
Withal my hart, I am contented. Wherfore yf it ſeme good vntounto thee Temporiſour, to morowe we wyll mete in thy gardyne. And thou Irenie yf it pleaſe thee, I pray thee be there alſo.
¶Temporiſour.
I am contente.
¶Ireneus.
Although I ſerue nothing to further youre cōmunication, yet God willing I wyl be ther.
¶Temporiſour.
Fare well then Euſebie.
¶Ireneus.
Fare well.
¶Euſebius.
God be with you both.
☞The ende of the ſecond Dialoge.