Christs Victory over Satans Tyranny, Book 12 · Part 7 – Part 9
The fourth examination before Doctor LANGDAL.
LAngd.
Your childe was not Christned in a fortnight or in thrée wéekes after it was borne; and then the chifest of the Parish were faine to fetch it out of your house against your will, which declareth that you allow not Baptisme of Children: and if the childe had died, it had beene damned; because it was not Christned: and you should hauehave beene damned, because you were the let thereof.
Wood.
It was baptized as soone as it was borne, by the Midwife; and the cause I blamed my neighbour, was, because they fet my childe out of my house without my leaue, and did more to it then need was, the which was not well done. And where you said, if a childe die, and be not baptized, it is damned: be all damned that receiue not the outward signe of Baptisme?
Lang.
Yea that they be: For Christ saith: And baptise them in the name of the Father, the Sonne, and the Holy Ghost. And he that beleeueth and is baptized, shall be saued. And he that beleeueth not, shall be damned.
Wood.
Then, by your saying, baptizing bringeth faith, and all that be baptized in the water, shall be saued.
Lang.
Yea, if they dye before they come to discretion, they shall be saued eueryevery one of them: and all that be not baptized shall be damned.
Wood.
You vnderstand not the Scriptures but as farre as naturall reason can comprehend: the Scriptures are plaine, that they which beleeue not, shall be damned: But it saith not in any place, that they that are not baptized, shall be damned. And where you say, Faith commeth by the vse of the materiall water in Baptisme, whether was Iocab baptised before he had faith? Paul saith in the ninth to the Romans, ere euer the children were borne, ere euer they had done good or bad, that the purpose of God, which is by election, might stand, not by reason workes, but by the grace of the Caller, The elder shall serue the yonger: Iacob hauehave I loued, and Esau hauehave I hated. This proueth that Faith is before Baptisme: For Circumcision was before Baptisme: And Saint Peter fetcheth the proofe of Baptisme from Noes flood, saying: Whilst the Arke was a preparing wherein but eight persons were saued by water, like as baptisme now saueth vsus; not in washing away the filth of the flesh, but in that there is a good conscience consenting to good. But you said, if they be baptised with water, if they die before yeares of discretion, they be all saued: the which S. Peter is cleane against, vnlesse you grant that Children hauehave faith before they bee baptized; but what consent of conscience hauehave Infants? you say they beléeue not before they bee baptized.
Lang.
The children are baptized in the God-fathers and God-mothers faith; and that is the good conscience that Saint Peter speaketh of, and the Christning is the kéeping of the Law that S. Paul speaketh of, saying: Neither is Circumcision or vncircumcision any thing, but the keeping of the Law is altogether; like as Circumcision was the keeping of the old law, so is Baptisme the keeping of the new Law.
VVood.
You confesse that neither circumcision nor vncircumcision auaileth not, which you hauehave coupled with baptisme, prouing that none of them preuaile, but the kéeping of the law, which law you say is kept by outward signes: which is nothing so; for Abraham beléeued God, and that was imputed vntounto him for righteousnesse: and this was before he was circumcised, so the children beléeue before they be either circumcised or baptized, according to my first saying, Iacob hauehave I loued, and Esau hauehave I hated. This sheweth that Iacob had faith in his mothers wombe. Also Iohn Baptist was sanctified in his mothers wombe, therfore it was counted vntounto him for righteousnesse: and I am sure, if they had died before they had either receiued circumcision or baptisme, concerning the outward déede, they had béene saued: for Gods gifts and calling are such that hee cannot repent him of; but by your saying he doth repent and change: for you say, kéeping of the outward law is all in all: and where you say they be baptised in the Godfathers & Godmothers faith, what if they be vnbeleeuers? In what faith then is the childe baptized?
Lang.
If one amongst the thrée God-fathers & God-mothers that baptize the childe be not a beleeuer, you would count that there were bery few beleeuers: If you would hauehave none beléeuers but them that be of your mind, then were Christs flocke a very little flocke.
VVood.
In the 12 of Luke Christ saith, his flocke is a little flocke: and where you make a question of one amongst thrée, there is not one amongst three hundred as farre as I can sée, else there would not be so many which would séek their neighbours goods and liues.
Lang.
If Christs flocke bee such a little flocke, tell mee how many there bee of them.
VVood.
First, the Prophet saith, Follow not a multitude to do euill: for the most go the wrong way; and Christ saith, Math. 7. The way is brode, and the gate wide that leadeth to destruction, and many there be that goe in thereat: And straight is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth to life, and few there be that finde it. And in the 12 of Luke Christ saith; Come you little flocke, it is your Fathers will to giuegive you a kingdome. And in the 3 of Mark, and 7 of Mathew, Christ saith; The tree is kowne by his fruits, a good tree bringeth forth good fruits, and a bad tree bad fruits: And eueryevery tree that bringeth not forth good fruits, shall be …ewne downe, and cast into the fire: Christ meaneth into hell, and your fruites declare you to be one of them.
Lang.
It was time such a fellow as you were taken indéed: such a one is enough to trouble a whole Countrey: you deny Originall sin, and Frée-will.
Wood.
What frée-will hath a man to do good of himselfe?
Lang.
All men hauehave as much frée-will as Adam had before his fall: for as by the meanes of Adam all became sinners, so by the obedience of Christ, all men became righteous, and were set as free as they were before their fall.
Wood.
What an ouer-throw hauehave you giuen your selfe here in Originall sinn…, and yet cannot sée it: for in prouing we hauehave free-will, you hauehave denyed originall sinne. For if we be set as free by the death of Christ, as Adam was before his fall, I am sure Adam had no originall sinne before his fall. If wee bee so frée now as hee was then, I maruell why Saint Paul complained thrice to God to take away the sting of it, GOD making him answere, My grace is sufficient for thee.
This proueth originall sinne, but not that it shall hurt Gods elect, but that his grace is sufficient for his. But you say in one place it is not without baptisme, and in another place you put it away quite by the death of Christ. And you hauehave spoken truer then you be aware of: for all that beleeue in Christ are baptized in his blood; and yet I say with Dauid in the 51 Psalme, I was borne in sinne, and in sinne hath my mother conceiued me: but no such sinne as shall be imputed, because I am borne of God by faith, as saith Saint Iohn: therefore I am blessed, as saith the Prophet, because the Lord imputeth not my sinne: and not because I hauehave no sinne; not of mine owne deseruing, but of his free mercy hee saueth vsus. Where is now your free-will? If we hauehave free-will, our saluation commeth of our owne selues, and not of God, and his word. Saint Iames saith, EueryEvery good and perfect gift commeth from the Father of light: of his owne will begat he vsus. For the winde bloweth where it listeth, and wee heare the sound thereof, saith Saint Iohn, but wee cannot tell from whence it commeth, nor whither it goeth. Euen so it is with eueryevery one that is borne of God: For Saint Paul saith: It is God that worketh the will and the deede, euen of his good will; therefore our owne will is nought at all, except it be to wickednesse.
After these and other Examinations, wherein there is no other materiall point of Religion handled, he was called forth to his condemnation: and so was depriued of his life with the other nine aforesaid, which were taken but the same day, or the day before.
AMBROSE.
HE died in Maidstone goale, who else should hauehave beene burned for his conscience, in the truth, as the other were.
Simon Miller, and Elizabeth Cooper.
SImon dwelt at Linne,Iuly 13. he came to Norwich, where he standing in the prease, and hearing the people comming out of the Church, the Masse being ended, he asked them where he might go to hauehave the Communion: they maruailed to heare his boldnesse; and some said, if he would needes go to a Communion, he would bring him where he should be sped of his purpose: whereupon hee was brought vntounto Dowing, Chancellor of Norwich; who, after a little talke with him, committed him to prison. As he was examined, a p…ece of paper appeared aboue his shooe: it was spied, and taken out, and it was a confession of his faith. The Chancellor asked him if he would stand to that confession of his faith: he constantly affirmed he would. The Kéeper gaue him leaue to go to his house, whilst hee set all things in order: and then hee returned, and constantly abiding in his purpose, and defence of Gods truth, he was by the Bishop and his Chancellor condemned and burned.
With him was burned the said Elizabeth, a Pewterers wife dwelling in Saint Andrewes in Norwich, where she had before recanted, and being troubled inwardly for the same, she came to Saint Andrewes Church, whilst they were at their Popish Seruice, and said, shee reuoked her recantation before made in that place, and was heartily sorry that shee euer did it, willing the people not to bee deceiued, nor to take her doing before for any example. Then Master Marsham, and one Bacon of the said Parish, cried, Master Shriefe, will you suffer this? Whereupon the Shriefe came to her house, at whose knocking she came downe, and was taken, and sent to Prison: shee was condemned and burned with the said Simon Miller.