Answer to a Jesuit, Part 10 – Part 14
ANSWER.
WE might hauehave passed by this parcell without answer, becaus that nothing in it conceaued, iustly can be laid to our charge. For our warldly felicitie, prosperitie & rest, nether is, nether yet hes bene at any tyme, sence we hauehave imbrased the Euangel of Iesus Christ, suche as may nurishe vsus in wickednes: nether yet are the Papists able to cōuict vsus of such impietie, as all the world know hath roung among them of mo yeares then an hūdreth thrise told. And in the meane tyme to what honour and worldly dignitie they are ascended, we mak them selues iudges. If they say the d…ctrine which we teach, is wondrously spred within this hūdreth yeares: So that now it hes almoste red y• self furth of bondage. We wold demand of the Papistes, if the …uangell of Iesus Christ, ceased to be the doctrine of Saluation, what tyme the Ki…kis gat rest in Iudea and elles where, in the dayes of the Apostles. If they answer, y• they meane no such thing. Then yet we demand, if the hand of the Lord be more shortned now, then that it was in the primatiue Kirk: So that now he may not aswell manteane his tr…uth, and enlarge the Kingdome of his onelyonly Sone, as that he did in the dayis of the Apostlis. Whatsoeuer the Papistes shall answer, we are assured that nether is his power diminished, so that he may not manteane his treuth: nether yet is his lufe so waxen cold towardes his Kirk, but that he will in his anger remember vponupon mercy. Why do not those cruell men considder, what innocent bloode hath bene shed for the testimonie of Christes E…angell, within these thre score yeares. Wold they that God at no tyme should shaw pietie vponupon the patient suffering of his afflicted kirk? Wolde they that the sworde should still deuor? Wold they that the flaming fyres should neuer be quēched? If that so they wold, they shaw them selues the Sones of him who hath bene a murtherer from the beginning, and yet continew in the same malice. But our God beareth towardes his weak Children, a fatherly affectioun whereby he is moued somtymes to stay y• fu…ie and rage of Sathan for a ceason: To the end that his chosen moir gladely may prepare thē selues to a new battell, Trew it is, the doctrine of saluatioun is greatly enlarged, & thereof we praise God: Trew it is, that Sathā hath not vniuersally such power to persecute as somtymes he hath had. But will Maister Tyrie thereof conclude, that in our Kirk there is no strēgth? But now to the Scriptures which Maister Tyrie coateth.
Trew it is, that Dauid in his 73. Psalme according to the compt of the Hebrewes affirmes that nether the worldly prosperitie of the vngodly, nor yet the afflictiō of the godly, ought to discourage such as feare God. In this generall head we aggre with Maister Tyrie and with all Papistes. But we affirme, that the notes and signes, which y• holy Ghost giueth in that place, be the which the wicked shalbe knowen, do no wyse apperteane to vsus: but of many yeares moste euidently hauehave appeared, & to this hour do yet appeare in the Pape, & in many of those that manteane his kingdome. For whether that the generatiō of y• Romane Antechrist hath bene exemed from the troubles of mē, whether y• their pryde hes bene as visible as euer was their garmēt: whether that their eyes hauehave start out for fatnes: And finally whether that their licentious leuinges, their oppression and presumption, hauehave not planely declared, yt they hauehave set their mouth against the heauen, we are content that the world (be it neuer so blind) the histories of …heir liues (not written be vsus but be their owen scribes) and the verray experience which all men now hauehave, & heirtofoir hauehave had of their proceadinges, beare record whether that they or we be noted in yt psalme. We giuegive Maister Tyrie to vnderstand, That we a…e better acquented with the liues and conuersationis of the Papes and Cardinalles, then thay think vsus to be: and that we know the strength of th…ir lawes, decries,Nota. statutes and counsalles better thē the lesuites knowes the reule of Iesus: albeit that presumpteous…y they hauehave vsurped his name. And therefoir we wil craue of Maister Tyrie and of all his factiō, that in wryting either to vsus or yet till suche as they wold perswade: that they vse treuth and simplicitie, and so shall they find thē selues better contented in reading of our answers. For this befoir the Lord Iesus, we protest that it is the treuth which we teach, and wherein we delyte: The luf… whereof causes vsus abhor all mānes inuention, superstition and Idolatrie. And thus far to the answers of the Scriptures which Maister Tyrie coateth.
Now to the sentence of the anciēt wryter, whose name he suppresseth. We answer, that his wordes cut the throttes of the proud Papistes of that age and of all their followers sence those day is. For thē began the taill of the Dragoun, to draw the starres from the heauen to the earth: Then began the fontanes which sometymes gaue cleare & holsome watter to become bitter: yea, to be turned vntounto blood, and yet did they prosper in all worldlie felicitie. Which was the caus that many godly men lamenting that publict corruption, wer compelled to pronunce, that, & like sentences, against the verray Kirk mē that then lyued. And least that Maister Tyrie should thinke that this we affirme without authoritie. We remit him to the wrytings of Ierome, Augustine, Ambrose, Bernard, & others that wer nether come long before nor after the tyme that he whose wrytinges if he shall diligentlie examine, he sal find, what was their iudgement of the seat of Rome in their dayes, and what others yt after followed, added to the former impietie of their Fathers: from the day that ones the Popes wer decored or rather deformed with a triple Crowne, let the wryters of all ages sence beare witnes. And least that Maister Tyrie shal think that we put him to to much pane, when that we send him to all wryters in generall. We shal releue him somwhat, and appoint him to two only, whōe iustly he can not suspect to hauehave bene corrupted be vsus. The one is Abbas Ioachim, a man sometymes of great authoritie and reputation amonges the Papistes. The other is Ioānes Auētinus historiographur, whose historie was prented be cōmand & with priuiledge of the Empreour Charles the Fyft: Let the Wrytinges we say of these two beare witnes, what hes bene ye iudgement of diuers men in diuers ages, of Rome, of the pryde of the prelacie, of their corruption, in lyfe and doctrine, and finally of their defectioun from the treuth. Abbas Ioachim wryting vponupon the wordes of the Reuelation of sanct Iohne, The sext Angel powred furth his Phyol… vponupon the great flood Euphrates. &c. Hes this sentence. Si autem aquae huius fluminis quod vocatur Euphrates, populi sunt, & gentes, & linguae, quae parent Romano imperio: Si quidē ciuitas Romana ipsa, est noua Babilon. &c. That if (sayeth he) the watters of this flood that is called Euphra tes be people, Nationis and tounges that obey the Romane Impyre, for the Cietie of Rome it self is new Babilon: This place and that which ensewes of the drying vp of the watters euidētly shawes, what was the iudgement of the wryter in his dayes of Rome. To wit, that it was become new Babilon. And least that any should think that the Author meaneth of the ancient Romane Impyre, and not of the regimēt of the Kirk that was in it, or in the dominion thereof, he explanes him selfe after, whill that he interpretes the great hoore, and the Kinges of the earth, who commit huredome with her. The great hoore he sayes, the vniuersal Fatheris affirmed to be Rome. Not sayes he as concerning the Congregation of the iust, which sometymes was a pilgramer in it, but as concerning the multitude of the reprobate: who be their wicked workes blaspheameth & impungeth the same Kirk, being a pilgramer with hir. Let Maister Tyrie mark that the wryter saw in Rome two Kirkis, the hoore, & her multitude dispersed in all y• places of that Impyre: & the Kirk which was a stranger blaspheamed and impunged be the multitude. And yet after he explanes him self more planely: saying, Reges vero terre, dic…i sunt praelati, quibus cō cessum est regim…n animarum. Quorum nonnulli fornicantur cū Babilone, quumquidem vt placeant hominibus, paruipendunt & negligunt mandatum dei. The Kinges of the earth (sayes he) are called the Prelates, to whome the Regiment of saules is cōmitted, of whome neuertheles some commit fornication with Babilon: Becaus that they for the pleasure of men neglect and dispyse the cōmandement of God. And least that any should thinke y• suche a sentence had recklesly eschaped him, he dowbles the same wordes ouer agane: saying, Reges vero terrae esse praelatos ecclesiarum, quorum aliqui fornicā tur cum Babilone supertus dictum est, It is befoir said (sayeth he) that the Kinges of the earth are the Prelates of the Kirkis, of whome some cōmit hooredome with Babilon. And proceades farther saying.
Et quod sequitur: Et mercatores terrae de virtute deliciarum eius, diuites factisu…t: ad fal…os sacerdotes & hipochritas, re…erendum est. qui negotiantes regnum dei temporalibus lucris. &c. That is. And that which followeth (sayeth he) and the merchandes of the earth wer made riche of y• power of her pleasures. That is to be referred to the fals Preastes and Hypocrhites, who making merch…ndice of the kingdome of God, gapes for temporall aduā tage. &c. And after a lytle vponupon these wordes, and the merchandes of the earth shall murne. &c. He sayes.
¶Negotiatores terrae qui sicut superius dictum est: ipsi sunt sacerdotes bruti, qui nesciūt que dei sunt. Sacerdotes animales qui dati sunt in atrium exterius, vt manducent peccata populi: qui ven dunt orationes & missas pro denarijs, facientes domū orationis apothecā negotiationis, faciētes inquam forum publicum & speluncam latronum. &c. That is, the merchandes of y• earth (as is before said), they are y• brutish Preastes that knowe not those thinges y• apperteane to God. Sensuall Preastes that are placed in the outward court that they may eat the sinnes of the people,Reioyse papistes, hear… are Messes, but marke that they are solde. who sell prayers and Messes for money: Making y• hous of prayer ane chop of merchandice: yea, making it (I say) a publict and oppen mercat, and a den of theues. &c. If Master Tyrie or any other of that sect, blame vsus of rayling (as commonly they vse to do, when that we speak the treuth) Then let him and them considder, that we learned not of Martyn Luther, what kind of men the papistes wer: but that which we speak and affirme now we hauehave receaued of the Papistes them selues. For this hath bene the mercyfull prouydence of God towardes his lytle flock euer from the beginning, That when an vniuersall corruptiō begā to spred the self, thē wer rased some as it wer one or two amonges ye hole multitude, till admonishe the present age and the posterities to come, how far men had declyned from the originall puritie: that at least God might hauehave some testimonie, that ye veritie of God, was not altogether buryed in the earth. But now let vsus heare the iudgementes of others.
Such as be any thing acquented with y• Histories of the antiquitie, can not be ignorant, how vehement was the contentiō betuix Nicolaus the first, and certane of y• Bishoppes of Germanie, for the diuorcement and secund mariage, of Lotharius King of Vngarie. Which of the two parties had the iust actiō, we dispute not: but what wer the crymes lade to the Pape in those dayes, we shal shortly tuoche. Efter that Tetogaudus & Guntherus, who wer y• two cheaf Bishoppes that opponed thē selues to the pryde of yt Romane Bishop, had largely purged thē selues of all things wherewith he charged them. They enter in into moste bitter accusation of the said Nicolas Pape. And after other things they lade to his charge, that most tyrannically he had oppressed the libertie of the spous of Iesus Christ. And after that they hauehave rehearsed the principall ornamēts wherewith y• trew Kirk was decored. They, say, Quae benesicia tu veluti latro intercipis,Auenti. lib. 4. foli. 428. templo dei preripis, in …e que transfers. &c. And after. Tu pontificis quidem personā prae te fers, ac tyrannum agitas: sub habitu & cultu pastoris, lupum sentimus: titulus parentē mētitur, luce factis iouem ostētas. That is, whiche benefites thow as a murtherer cutteth of, and takis away from the Kirk of God, transferring them vntounto thy self. Thow shaw is the person of a pasture, but planely thow playes the tyranne: vnderunder the habit & cloithing of a sheapherd, we feale the crueltie of a Wolf. The tytle lies, for it calleth the father: but thow thy self into thy workes shawes, the thundering of Iupiter. &c. And therfoir (say they) we knowe not thy voce: we regarde not thy statutes: nether yet feare we thy bulles, nor thunderinges.L…t the Papistes confute this o… … absol…e vsus. If thow pretend to interdite vsus, we feare not to cut thy throt with thy owen sword: For the holy ghost is author of all y• Kirkis whersoeuer they be dispersed vponupon the face of the earth.
This was the iudgement of many otheris then of these befoir expressed, of the seat of Rome in those dayes about 800. yeares after the ascention of Christ, and how y• the pryde and iniquitie of that seat augmented, as also the fre speaking of men against the same, the subsequentis will declare.
What lamentable tragedi… was played betuix Hildebrand called Gregor the s… uint, and Henrie the fourt Empreour of Rome, mo Historiographoures then one or two do witnesse. Nether yet do those writers who wer most addict to the factiō of the Pope, to wit, Gerochus, and Paulus, so couer the shame of that deceauer, but that they giuegive sufficient light to men, to se what mischeaf lurked within the bosōe of that p…stilent seat. For wryting what y• said Hildebrand did, what tyme that he was fi…st deposed from that seat, which be craft and without all ordour he did vsurp (they say) that he spared not largely to bestow the patrimonie of the Kirk vponupon soldiours, and vpone capitane of warre: vponupon the which, the pure, cheafly, should hauehave bene susteaned: yea, they affirme, yt he shew him self more rigerous against y• empreour, thē it b…came a pasture to hauehave done. If this was their iudgement who tooke vponupon them to defend his action & caus, what think we was the iudgement of others?
That shall we better vnderstand be his accusation and be the sentence pronūced against him, be all the Bishoppes of Frāce and Germanie. Who with one voce concluded, that Hildebrand was ambitious periur…d: an vsurper of the Empreoures autho…itie: one that violated and brak the concord o… the Kirk: and therefore that he was vnworthie of that seat. This sentēce was pronūced in his owen face, whil that he was sitting in counsal in Rome be one Rulandus, cheaf Preast of Parma.
Who boldly and without any salutation, offering the decreit of the counsall, together with the Empreoures letters, said. This Hildebrand is no Bishop, no Father, no pasture: he is a theaf, a Wolf, a murtherer, a Tyranne: and therefoir let him he deposed. &c. We are not ignorant yt hereof ensewe great tumult, sedition, and trouble. But as that purged nothing his former infamie, so did it not stop ye mouthes of many, planely to pronunce, what Iudgement they had of him and of that seat. To wit, that he vnderunder the tytle of Christ, did the verray work of the Antichrist: That he sat in the Tempell of god, which then was become Babilone: That he was worshipped and extolled aboue all that wc was called God: That he glorifyed as if he could not erre. &c. These and others crymes of no les weight wer lade in that age, to the Bishoppes and seat of Rome: and this was far without the terme of thre hūdreth yeares within the which Maister Tyrie wolde limitat the doctrine of our Kirk. But let vsus heare farther.
As the practises of the Bishoppes of Rom…, …er more and more espyed, the Bishoppes of Germanie assembled them selues in counsall at Regmoburgiū: where the Bishop of that same cūtrie in his most vehemēt orison, made against the authors of sedition, amonges other thinges, pronunced this sentence against the Bishoppes and seat of Rome. Christ our Sauiour (sayes he) most diligentlie foirwarned vsus, to be ware of fals Christes, and fals Prophetes, whome he willed vsus to discerne & know be their workes.Nota. Whome presently onles we be more then blind we may se.
For (sayes h…) Romani flumines arma in omnes hab…nt Christianos,This day ye…. audendo, fallēdo, & bella ex bellis ferēdo magni facti, omnes trucidant, occidunt, pacem concor diam terris depellunt. &c. That is, these Romane Preastes (he not…s the hole Rable) make warre against all Christianes, some tymes malepa…tly, sometymes craftely, and be deceat they still continew warre vponupon warre. They them selues being made great, murther & slay the sheap. Breifly they tak peace and concord from the earth. And after a lytle in the sam… which is to be found in the seuint book… of the Historie foresaid he sayes:A…en. l…b. 7. Hildebrandus ante annos centum atque septuaginta, primus specie religionis, Antichristi imperij fundamēta iecit. Ho… bellum nephandum primus auspicatus, est quod per successores hu… vsque continuatur. &c.
That is, Hilldebrand (sayes he) before an hundreth and seuintie yeares, first vnderunder apperance of Religion, laid the fundation of the Impyre of the Antechrist, he first began this vnhappy warre which to this day is continued be his successoures: he farther proceades and sayes, Beleue the man that he… experience. These Preastes of Babilone desyre to regne alone:Let the worlde iudge. They shal not cease vntounto such time as that they hauehave oppressed the honor of the Romane Impyre. And consequently the trew pastures that wold fead the slocke, being oppressed, and the barking dogges being remoued, they shall extinguishe the treuth, they shall murther and trode all thinges vnderunder their feat: They shall sit in the Tē ple of God, and be extolled aboue all that is worshipped. &c.
These and many other graue sentences wer pronunced be the said Ebirhardus, & wer ratifyed and confirmed be the hole Bishoppes, & Senate of Germanie: wherby it is euident what iudgement that age had of the Bishoppes of Rome, and their Colleges. To auoyde farther pro…ixitie, we omit the orison and iudgement of probus, the Bishop of Tullos: The publict edict set furth against the Pope and against his practises in the dayes of Lodouicus y• fourt Empreour, together with the iudgementes of many other: which such as are exercised in Reading of Histories may note. So that if Maister Tyrie or any of his sect shall, after this accuse vsus▪ that we are the first that hauehave disclosed that man of sin: The moste ancient wryters shall cō uict him, & purge vsus. Now shortly to the rest of his letter.
TYRIES LETTER.
SEN my departing fra zow I hauehave sene sindrie cōgregationis, specially in Germanie, Professing as thay pretendit the trew word of God and his Euangell, bot in veritie betuix them thair selfis & them and zow, I find sa greit difference and repugnance in materis of greit cōsequence, that gif thair wer na vther argument to let me not depart fra the Catholick Kirk, in the quhilk I was Baptised, that wer sufficient. &c.
¶ANSWER.
WHen Maister Tyrie shall accuse in special, wherein the Congregationis in Germanie, differ amonges them selues, and that we differ from them: then shall we shaw our Iudgementes, whether the difference be of suche importance, as it ought to dissolue the vnitie of the Kirk. The confession of our faith & the ordour of our Kirk, is patēt to all that lyst to read the same, whē either he or any other shall oppunge any one or two heades of the same, so long as God pleases to reteane in this miserable life, such as of his mercy he hes made his Ministers to blow the trompet of his iudgements to this most wicked generation: nether he nor any other that please to oppone them selues to our confessio…n, shall long craue an answer, an answer we say of any one or two heades which they please to oppoung. For Master Tyrie ought to vnderstand, that the preacheing Ministers within the Realme of Scotland, are oxen, euer lauboring vnderunder the Yock: and that into the husbandrie of the Lord. And therefore they cā hauehave no tyme vacant from their necessary cures, to compas countries with the Iesuites (who ar subiect to none other yocke then to that of their owen electiō) to espy what faultes they can finde amonges the Congreationis. As we hauehave no vacantes (we say) to considder all tryfles that offend delicate men, who can acknowledge no Kirk, but that which in all pointes be absolute and perfyte: so albeit that both… …e did considder them, and condempne them, yet we vsurpe no authoritie abou… our brether: but remit all men to their owen iudge. And do reuerence all Congregationis, who do aggre with vsus in the principallis of our faith: as the particulare Kirkis of Iesus Christ: albeit that in all ceremoies there be not vniformitie: yea, & albeit that in some heades of doctrine also, there appeare repugnance, yet will we not brek brotherly concord, prouyding that we aggre in the principallis. Principallis we call those heades of doctrine, without the cōfession & cōsent whereof, the Kirk was not planted. Be these few wordes Maister Tyrie (if he be wyse) may vnderstand what we meane, & so we procead to the conclusion of his letter.
¶TYREIS LETTER.
QVhairfoir Schir I exhort yow as I begouth, to think on this mater as deiply as it becūmis a Christiane man, and quhen ze hauehave swa done aduertise me of zour sentiment. In the meane tyme I sall pray almichtie God be his grace to illuminat zour spreit to knaw in this mater y… richt way, and to gif fortitude and strenth quhen ze haif knawin it to profes it sa far as salbe conuenient to zour estate and saluatioun, hauing na farther occasioun of wryting committis zow to the protectioū of Almichtie God.
Writtin at Paris the vj. of December be zour maist humbill Seruitour and brother IAMES TYRIE.
¶Gif ze pleis to answer ze may send zour wryting to the Baillie of Arroll, quha will caus it to be send to me.
ANSWER.
AGainst this exhortation wil we obiect nothing. For our ernest desyre is that men diligently considder what doctrine they imbrase, what fundation and ground their faith hes, and finally what way they follow, thinking thereby to atteane to eternall felicitie. For this careles securitie that vniuersally may be espyed in mē, we dampne, and euer hauehave dampned: But this we feare not to affirme, as before we hauehave written, that the doctrine of the Papisticall Kirk, now many yeares bypast, hath bene altogether corrupt: that their opiniō which they call their Catholick faith, hes no sure ground within the word of God: And that the way which they for y• moste part hauehave followed, was the verray way of perdition, to all suche as without trew repentance departed this lyfe in y• blindnes. And much more shalbe to all persons and estates, that now shal manteane those abhominationes, becaus the light is come and hes sufficiently declared the …ormer darknes. That man of sin is so manifestli… reueled, that excuse of ignorance there resteth none: But a fearefull iudgement abydes all such, that yet farther will follow his dampnable wayes.
This Schir ye hauehave our iudgement, which albeit ye shall receaue laitter then we wold: yet the state of tyme being considdered, we dout not but ye shall interprete all thinges to the best. Vse our letter so we pray yow, that it may come to the knowledge of the wryter to yow, whose cōuersion we no les seak then he appeares to seak youres. And thus we hartly commit yow to the protection of the Omnipotent.
Of Edinburgh the 10. day of August Anno Do. 1568.