An Answer to Blasphemous Cavillations by an Anabaptist, Section 41
THE ADVERSARIE.
An argumēt you make in that place of Genesis where I…seph saieth vntounto his brethren,The 5 argument. God sent me hither, for your liues saik, and thereafter, it was not you that sent me hither, but God which hath made me a father vntounto Pharao: of this do you gather, that the wicked dede which Iosephes brethern did in selling him,The … section. was the Lords dede, and secret will: But for so much as the patriarckes here committed double sinne, first, greued their father, and secondly, they did committe the greatest kinde of these, that is, to sell a mans child from him, which by the lawe …ght to be punished by death. therfor may we see that this dede was not donne by gods will for … was centrarie to this commandementes, neither wil he any wickednes. but according to his nature which is euer good, he turned their wicked dede to a good end, for his seruantes Abrahā Isaack, and Iac…bes sake… for he sheweth merciemercy to the thousand genera…ion of them that louelove him. this to be so, it is plainely proued by the latter chapter where Ioseph saieth vntounto his brethren, you thoght▪ euill ouer me. but God ha…h turned it vntounto good, to do as it is come to passe this day. marke well what is here ascribed vntounto Iosephes brethern and what vntounto God. They thoght euill and God turned it to good. Then their minds and gods mynde were not all one, wherfor it was not gods wil that they should thus do wickedly, notwithstanding that this place of the last of Geneses is so manifest and directe against your error, as can be, yet will you not agree to the trueth, but flie to your shamefull shift of gods secret will. for here you say that it was gods secret will, that this should so come to passe so that the patriarkes thoghtes were moued to do this by God. Thus you attribut to God that which is propre to the deuill, by the testimonie of the word: Wherby we be taught that the deuill moved mē with euill thoghtes. God commandeth vsus to resist euill thoghtes which if they come of him then commandeth he vsus to resist him self. Iames saieth, that no man is tempted of God. But to moue with euill thoghtes is to tempt, all is good which comme…h from the father of light wherfor if euill thoghts come from him they must be good, then was Iosephes saying vntrewe, you thoght euill over me, but you grant euill th…ghtes to be euill, and yet you say, that they came from God, then may we call God the f…ther …f dar…knes: because from him came euill thoghts which are darknes. And wher you say…, that God doeth hose things for his owne glory I a…swer that saying is but vaine▪ for we glorifie him whē we iudge him worthie to be glorified, as Nabuchadnez or being chāged into a brutishe nature hauing experience of the iustice & power of God he gaue glory to God for as much as he did see & iudged God to be iust, God wilbe gl…rified of all nations, then must gods works be such as all nations may knowe …hem and praise them, yet is …here no nation which at any tyme shall acknowledge God to be iust, for because he punished a man for the offence, wherunto he him self did prouoke him. The Philistians priestes and so…h sayers gaue glory to God & iudged him to be iust in that he plagued Phara… in that he hardened his heart against God, desiring their ruler▪ by the same example not to hardē the…r heartes against God, but to send away the Ark of the Lord, lest he likwies plague them. But if the Philistians soth sayers had knowē (as ye presume to do) that God did harden Phara…s heart, what … coulde they attribut to God for punishing Pharao for that thing wher…of he was the author him self, mouing and forcing Pharao therun…o, seing as you hauehave said, no man is able to resist his secrete will, what iustice had it bene to punishe Semei for that o…fence, where of God was the author commanding him to do it: Dauid Saieth, thus the Lord is knowen to execute true iudgement, when the vngodlie is trapped in the workes of his …wne handes, not when he punished for the offence wherunto he moued men him self. If God should punish a man because he hath a beard, should any glory redound to God thereof, seing he hath giuen vsus beards him self▪ But here you be very religious, and say we oght not to speake so vnreuerently of the wo…k… of God, for this is the secret iudgement of God vnknowen to vsus I answere there be some secretes of God vnknowen to vsus. But the iudgement of God is knowen & made manifest to vsus in the word, and after this word (as saint Paul teacheth) not after your secret iudgement shall God iudge the world, & so shal God be glorified of all godlie & vngodlie forasmuch as all shall iudge is to be iust, & they which hauehave not obeyed the trueth (not your vnknowene trueth) but that which is knowen, that is …he word, shalbe punished ād they which hauehave obeyed to the …rue…h, not secr…t as yours but reueled in gods word, shall receaue their rewarde. Moreouer if this be the secret iudgemēt of God, who reu…led it …hē to you H…we do you knowe it to be secret, is it secre…e which you knowe and teach…n dede I thīk it to heso, for it is so secret, that I cā not cache no holde of it. But herin I de perceaue, not the secret, but …he manifest iudgemēt of God. which suffereth you to erre thus because you with holde the trueth is vnrighteousnes,Roma. 1 ād according to your knowledge you hauehave not glorified God, neither hauehave you bene thankfull, but wax…d full of vanities in your owned imaginations. wherfore my counsell is that you …urn… again… from …hat infi… …tie wherin you hauehave drowned your selues, beleue …he worde & s…k… no forther for it is the power of God to salutation to eueryevery one that beleu…h.
ANSWERER.
As your most pestilent sect,To ye 1. & 2. euen from the first originall of it, hath with all malicious craft labored to subuert and confound gods most perfect ordinance, so do you in this mater confound those things, which we most plainely ād most destinctly set a parte, and deuide them the one from the other. for first you are neuer able to proue that any of vsus hath alledged, or yet doeth alledge the word or fact of Ioseph and his brethren, for any proof of gods eternall election, or most iust reprobation. but to declare that such is gods prouidēce towardes his chosen childrē, and towardes their saluation, & preseruation of his church, that what so euer sathan and wicked men imagine to the destruction of gods elect, that same doeth his infinit goodnes conuert to their profit, comfort and ioye. And so this is the first, that impudētly ye confounde, to witt his prouidence which extēdeth to all his creatures, with his election which perteineth onelyonly to his children. The second is, no man hath euer put more plaine difference betwext the wicked will of Sathan, the corrupt and malicious will of man, and the holie ād most iust will of God, thē we do in all or doctrine ād writings. And yet ye accuse vsus, that we attribut to God that which is propre to the deuill, that is to moue the thoght of men to do euill. Howe far that impietie is from all our cogitations, as God one day shall manifestly reuele to your eternall confusion (except that spedely you repent) so may all godlie men who either hauehave heard our voices or redde our writings, beare record how iustly you accuse vsus. we constantly affirme that God neither moued by his holie spirit, the heartes of the patriarkes to enuie ād hatred, neither vet of Pharao to crueltie, neither yet to iniquitie. for that is naturally borne with all men, and nedeth the power of the potent Spirit of God to extinguish and quēch it, but not to inflābe and kindle it. But yet we say that God who out of darknes produced or broght forth light, had in yt most detestable facte of the patriarckes, both his will and his counsell, farre cōtrarie to their myndes and purpose: euen as h… had in the cruell and most vniust death (as cōcerning the instrumētes that were the executers) of his deare sonne Christ Iesus. nether yet doth it ther of folowe, yt euill thoghtes, whereunto we are comanded to resist, are moued by him, or yet come from him. for the fountaine thereof doth euerie wicked man so fynd within him self that his owne conscience shall conuict him that no where elles is the cause of his iniquitie (& of the seuere punishment, which for the same he shall susteine) to be soght but onelyonly within him self, and as proceding of him self by instigation of the deuill: into whose power he is deliuered (as was Saul and others) by the inscrutable and incomprehēsible (but yet most iust) iudgemētes of God. If in you were ether modestie or discretiō,To the 6. 7. 8. 9. 10 to iudge of those thinges yt be well, & godly spoken, or yet docilitie to be taught in those thinges wher of vterly ye declare your selues ignorant, ye coulde not thus as in a furious rage spewe forth your venim against gods supreme Maiestie. for your horrible blasphemies are not so much spoken against vsus, as against God. As for vsus, they do no more obscure the manifest light of our doctrine, then if in your despyte, ye should spitt against the bright sunne to impede the brightnes therof. for in none of our writinges be you able to shewe any of these sentences, which maliciously & without shame you laye to our charge:
Euill thoghtes come▪ from God. God punisheth mā for the offences wherof he is author, and wher vntounto he prouoketh him. God moued and forced Phara… to pnuishe the people.
These I say and others your horrible blasphemies (which we so detest, that we affirme, the first authors of them to be worthie of most sharp punishment) you be neuer albe to shewe in any of our writinges. And this might serue for a sufficient answered to all your dispitefull raling. But lest you should still glory in your iniquite and grosse ignorance, I will discouer the same folowing your answer, in the wordes of S. Iames saying God tēpteth no man. if ye affirme yt God nether tēpteth ye obeidiēce of his seruātes, nether yet sendeth false prophetes to tempt his people, his plaine scriptures will rebuke your vanitie. for God tempted Abraham, he tempted his people fortie yeres in the wildernes, he tempteth also by sending fals prophetes, as Moises doth witnes. And therefor ye must be compelled to grant, that this word tempting or to tempt is diuersly taken in the scriptures: somtimes to trye and examyn, somtimes to bring to light and knowledge thinges that be secret in mans heart, sometymes to seke by experience a certentie of thinges spokē, pronounced, or affirmed, and somtymes moue, or to prouoke to iniquitie: & in this last signification we confesse that God tempteh no man. for as the mater of all iniquitie lieth within man, so is he prouoked, moued, and stirred therunto by his owne lustes, and instigation of the deuill onelyonly. And thus albeit we grant that to moue euill thoghtes, is to tempt, yet we denye ye cōuersion. which is this, Ergo to tēpt is to moue euill thoghtes. But let vsus heare forther of your profound vanitie: all is good say you that commeth from the father of light (God grant that in your heartes ye were assuredly so persuaded) if euill thoghtes come from him they must be good. and so you conclude, that then was Iosephes wordes fals, and that God may be called the father of darknes (O execrable is your blasphemie) because from him come euill thoghtes which are darknes. Answer. If any of vsus hauehave so written or spokē, let vsus be stoned to death as execrable blasphemers. And if that ye in your blind fury do therewith vniustly burden vsus, althogh ye may eskape the handes of man, yet shall you not esskape gods seuere and soden vengeance. It is malice that will not suffer you to vnderstand howe that these euilles whiche men willingly comitt; in so farre as they com from God are iust, profitable and good. for we most constantly affirme that the damnation of the deuill, the induration of Pharao, the deceauing of Achab, and other such, in so farre as they proceded from God, are his iust and good workes, because they are the punishment of sinne, the excecution of his iust iudgementes, and a declaration of his iustice. which iustely is armed against the obstinate rebellion of Angelles, and men. but thereof to conclude, ergo their euill thoghtes, their malicious myndes, their hatered and crueltie came immediatly from God, is more then a blasphemie. for all these be, and are found within the offenders, which God doth vse not by an ydle permission (for that is a thing most contrarious to his iustice) but effectually as his wisedome best knoweth, they shall serue to his glory, & yt for vtilitie of his chosen children. I say it is a thing most contrarious to gods iustice & power, ydly to suffer iniquititie to be done, if he had no further respect then to the facte, as it is committed. for as a man can not be excused, who may impede murther and doth it not, so can not gods iustice be excused by your ydle permission, if he had no further respect, but to thinges as they be dōne by man. And so is gods iustice rather accused then mainteined by the foolishness of your curious braynes, saying God permitteth many thinges which he wold not. what vanitie is this? Is it not a thing confessed amongest all, that gods power is omnipotent? who then cā compelle him to suffer, that which he wold not? And why doth he willingly suffer thinges, which in his law, he hath forbidden? I answer, for the manifestation of his own glory which is more precious then the heauen and ye earth, and all the creatures in ye same conteined. And thus doth vanitie cause you to fear that gods iustice shall fall into decay, except it be vndersett & vpholdē wt your foolishe distinctiō, betwext his will & his permission. but we feare not to affirme yt he permitteth nothing, which in some respect he will not. for as he is omnipotēt & a most louing father so should he suffer no calamitie to come nor crueltie to be vsed against his children▪ except he did before see, yea and before determyn their cofort & his glory to arrise of the same. And will you say yt gods glory the cōfort and y• preseruation of his Church is an euill work? because that wicked men are instrumentes, by whome gods eternal counsell is broght to passe. Was the exaltatiō of Iosephe to honor, the preseruation of Egypte, and of other nations from famine, yea and the feding of Iacob and his familie, an euill work? because that, Iosephes brethren of malice and enuie did sell him to the Ismaelites, and they for lucre did seli him againe to Putiphare, whose wyfe of malice did moste vniustly accuse him, & so being in prison at length he was broght to the knowledge of Phirao, and so was promoted for his reuelation, and wisedome to honor and dignitie. O say you it is not this that we do lay to your charge, but you affirme that God was author of the malice, and of the wicked thoghtes of Iosephes brethren. You do belie vsus most maliciously. for we constantly denye that God ether powred in them any malice, o… did moue by his holie Spirit any wicked thoght into them. for those we say they had of nature, in so farre as it is corru…ted. But we say that God vsed their wicked thoghtes and malice to his glory, and to the full comfort of him whose destruction they soght, and that he did not ydly permitting them, but effectually working by such instrumentes and meanes as his wisedome had before appoīted. Rage now as you list. for albeit to you this saing is vaine yt God worketh all thinges for his owne glory, yet will not God hauehave his glory measured by ye vanitie of your braine. We gl…rifie God say you, when we iudge him w…rthie to be glori…ied. Answer if you vnderstād that then onelyonly, and at none other time elles do mē glorify God, but when they confesse him worthie of glory, you are ignorant, foolishe, and manifest liers. for your argument is no better, then if I should say: man slepeth in the night season, therfor no man may or can slepe at any other time. If your master Castalio had considered that an argument made, a specie ad genus, negatiue is vaine and foolishe, he had not heaped to gether so many sophisticall reasons: by the which you and others are abused. To make this mater some what more plaine: If ye glorie of God cōsist in the manifestation of his merciemercy, of his trueth, of his power, of his wisedome and of his moste iust iudgementes, then do all creatures glorifie, God, whether they iudge him worthie or vnworthie of the same. for Dauid affirmeth that the heauens declare the glory of God, and yet hauehave they nether iudgement nor vnderstāding: the heauen and the earth saieth Isaiah are replenished with his glorye.Isa. 6 And in an other place the beastes of the field shall preach my glorye the dragons and the birdes of eastriches, and Achan also was cōmāded to giuegive glory vntounto God. The earth, shalbe compelled saieth Habacuc to knowledge the glory of God. Zacharie also the Prophet saieth for his glory hath he sent vntounto the nations which hauehave spoyled you. finally shall not sathan and the reprobate in their iust condemnation giuegive glory vntounto God? and do ye think that all these creatures, iudge God to be worthie of glory in such sort as they acknowledge his power, his wisedome his iustice, & frō their hole heart submitte them selues to his holy will? I trust you do not. for we knowe that sathan is a spirit confirmed in malice, and rebellious against God, & yet is he cōpelled euen in tormentes to giuegive glory vntounto God, in so farre, as in his iust dā nation he declareth gods power and iust iudgementes. And therefor I say that you restreine the glory of God with in to streit & narrowe limites, when yt you will that it shall extend no forther, then to suche as from their heart iudge God worthie of glory, ye wc perteineth to his chosen children onelyonly and can neuer be giuē by the reprobate. for such glory must procede frō faith, wc is not cōmone vntounto all, but is the speciall gift giuē to gods elect: & yet neuertheles by other meanes God declareth his glory, euen in the vesselles of his wrath, as is before declared.
Of the example of Nabuchadnezer ye can make but a particular cōclusion in this for me, Nabuchadnezer after he had felt the iust punishement of his pride and arrogācie, gaue glory vntounto God: Ergo some man after punishmēt giueth glory vntounto God. If you make your cōclusion extend any further, it is fals. for if you say that all men after punishment giuegive glory vntounto God, wt the same confession that he gaue, many examples may be showen to the cōtary. if you saye that none other giueth glory vntounto God, except such as so be punished: that will be proued likewies fals. And if you say yt gods glory doth shine in none, except in those that acknowledge & confesse God to be mercifull and iust, that is most vaine of all, and thus I say your conclusion must be but particulare.
The reasons & the cōclusion, which you make vponupon these wordes of Dauid: Praise God all you natiōs, are so foolish, on the one parre, and so filthie and execrablevpon the other, that amongest all nations ye oght not onelyonly to he mocked, but also to be had in horror and detestation. first you say. If God must be praised amongest all nations, then must gods workes be such as all nations may knowe them and prais… them. I answer, euen so they are, and such amongest all natiōs as hauehave ye eyes of their myndes illuminated by gods holie spiri…, do see iust caus why yt they oght to praise gods wisedome, euen in all his workes. But you procede saying there is no nation which at any tyme shall acknowledge God to be iust, for that be punishe… ma…, for that whervnto he him self did prouoke him, and so after the example of the priestes of the Philistines, ye ask this questiō: If God should punishe man because he hath a beard, should any glory redound … God there of, seing he hath giuen vsus beardes his self, And so you skoffe & iest at vsus, saying yt we be very religiouse: because we say that none oght to speak so vnreuerently of gods workes. God is witnes that I write notwithou… some grief of heart, nether yet yt I affirme this, which I am to speak. for priuie hatered, wc I bear against the persone of any man. But in gods presence I say, that rather then such horrible blasphemies should hauehave bene fostered in my heart, deuised in my braine, written by my pen, and pronounced by my mouth and tongue, that rather I wold my carcasse should hauehave suffered most cruell and vile death. yea and further I say, that better it had bene, for you neuer to hauehave bene borne, then thus blasphemously to expose gods great Maiestie to opprobrie ād mockage. for I appele to the iudgement of the heauen and the earth, and of all creatures in the same conteined, if euer that Iulian the appostate spake more disdainfully of God, then here you write. But for the instruction of the simple reader, to answere you more reasonably, thē your vnreuerent skoffing deserueth, I say first, that the mynde of Dauid was not to teach vsus what euerie nation and eueryevery particulare man amongest the Gentiles shall do,The place of Dauid. but what was the duetie of euerie nation, eueryevery people and euerie man to do, when gods mercies should be offered vntounto them. And therfor if you conclude all natiōs do praise God, in such sorte as Dauid meaneth, because that the holie Gost by his mouth commādeth all nations to praife God, you make no better an argument, then if ye should affirme, that eueryevery man loueth God with all his heart, with all his mynd, & with all his strength, because that God so commandeth. This is one portion of your ignorance. The second foloweth, gods workes, say you, must be such as all nations may knowe them and praise them. I answer, if you vnderstand that al that praise God vnfeinedly from their heartes must hauehave some knowledge of his mercies, goodnes, iust iudgemētes and wōderous workes we distent not from you. But if you say (as by your proces is euident, that you do), that except all nations perceaue and vnderstand the very grounde of gods iustice, that God amongest them shall hauehave no glory. then as we lament your foolishnes, so we detest your error▪ for albeit that the …aturall man can neuer atteine to the knowledge of those things which God purposeth, yet shal not God be defrauded of his golry, no not in the most carnal and wretched man. Christe Iesus was sent into the world, and came to that people which was called his own: and his glory did so shine to the eyes of some,Iob. 1. that they did acknowledge it to be the glory of the onelyonly Sōne of God▪ But did the princes of the priestes and the hole nation of the Iewes see the same glory, and so confesse him as did the electe? Saīt Paul witnesseth the cōtrarie. saying, if they had knowen, they had not crucified the king of glory. Paul was appointed a preacher to the Gentiles, amongest whome he most faithfully and moste boldely did open the treasures of gods great mercies, and of the glory of his Sonne Christ Iesus: but did eueryevery citie, realme, nation or man, to whome these treasures were opened so receaue, vnderstand and imbrace them, that for the same they glorified God? the contrarie is euident. But was God therfore defrauded of his glory, euen in ye midest of a wicked generatiō? God forbid. for as the eyes of some were lightned, and so did glorifie the word of the Lord, so such as remained obstinate did (and shall) glorifie God, in so farre as his iust iudgemētes were, and shalbe executed against thē. If you feare no punishemēt rage as you list. To your blasphemies I hauehave before answered. for none of vsus doeth impute vpō God that he punisheth any man, for thing that he prouoketh him to do. for iniquitie commeth not of gods prouocation, motion, nor holy Spirit, as that before we hauehave declared. ād therfor as God hath reueled to vsus a more assured knowledge in his holy scriptures, then the Philistians priestes had, so are we bold to affirme that which was hid from thē, & which also you can not abide, to witt, that al creatures are compelled to serue to gods glory in such sorte as his wisedom hath appointetd them: and yet that the willes of men are neither violently moued nor enforced by God to committe iniquitie, to the which all men are redy bent of naturall corruption. Amongest many foolishe and moste disagreing similitudes which your captaine Castalio vseth for probation of his purposes (for in such doeth stand the chief groūd of his diuinitie) none cā be more foolish, nor further repugnīg to that which he and you wold proue, then is this. If God should punish a man: because he hath a beard, should any glory redound to God there of▪ seing he hath giuen vsus beards him seis: Here of you wil inferre, that if God punishe sinne which he hath willed or appointed to be, then can he not be iust. But let vsus examine, if your Simile doeth agree euen in the chief pointes, in the which if it proue any thing it must agre. first we knowe that the beard of mā was created by God. But who amōgest vsus did yet euer affirme that sinne and iniquitie was made or created by God? Sinne we cōfesse was forsene, yea and ordeined in the incomprehensible counsell of God, and that for the most iust and the most righteous end and purpose. But that it was made or created by God, that are ye not able to proue by our doctrine. Thus doeth your similitiude halt in the chief membre. for they must be both a like gods creatures and creation, if God shal be bound no more to punishe man, for hauing of the one, then for hauing of the other. moreouer the beard of mā so springeth groweth, and abideth of a mere natural motion, yt albeit men slepe, eate, drink, do or what so euer actiōs pleaseth them, (not taking care or solicitude of their beard) it cometh neuertheles to that state and perfection that nature will suffer. But hath man sinne none otherwayes then thus? Doeth ma sinne I say, hauing neither will, mynd, nor appetite to sinne? or doeth not sinne procede from so volū tary and corrupt motiō, that the will, the iudgemēt, the vnderstanding, and appetites, yea the hole man, and all his cogitations are subiecte to sinne, and bent vponupon in iquitie at all tymes▪ Be iudges your selues how well do ye partes of your similitudes agree. Thus with greater modestie hauehave I answered your foolishnes, thē your scoffing scurrilitie deserueth.
Where you affirmethat albeit there be some secretes of God vnknowen to vsus,To ye 11. 12 13 yet is the iudgement of God knowen, ād made manifest to vsus in the word, I wold ask of you, if ye cā by ye plaine word assigne causes of all gods iudgementes from the beginning, and of those iudgements which that day shalbe put in execution whē ye secretes of al heartes shalbe reueled. And if you be able so to do, yeshould be profitably occupied (as I thīk) if by your plaine and simple writing, ye wold studie to put end to this controuersie. the chief point where of stā deth in this, that we affirme, that causes able to satisfie the curiositie of man, cā not be assigned from gods plaine scriptures, why God permitted a great nombr… of his Angels to fal, of whome he hath redemed none, but reseru…th them to iudgement? why God did suffer man to fall,Iudgemētes of God in which mās reason can not be satisfied. and yet of one masse, elected som vesseles of merciemercy to honor, and appointed others for sinne to damnation? And finally as before I hauehave said, why God deferred the sending of his Sōne so long, and why also that his againe comming is so long delayed? If ye will answer yt these two last, are resolued by the scriptures, the one to be as the Apostle writeth,Heb. 11. lest that the fathers should hauehave bene made perfect with out vsus, and the other that the nomber of gods elect children might be fully complete▪ which we cōfesse to be a reasone most strong, and sufficient for all gods children: neither yet do we require any other. but yet the curious braine will not so be quieted, but it wil still demād, may not God in one momēt if so it please him, fulfill the nōbre of his chosen children, as well as he of nothing did creat the heauen and the earth, and shortly in the space of six naturall dayes set all things in perfect ordre. Consider with your selues what you do take in hād, if ye wil affirme that all gods iudgemēts be so knowen, that a sufficient reason of eueryevery one may be assigned from the word. ād if you say there be some things secrete. The consider, I beseche you that the holie Gost hath neuer made mention of any greater secret, then that which lieth hid in gods most iust iudgemētes, which Paule affirmeth to be incō prehensible, and Dauid saieth they are depe and so profoūd, that neither can the vnderstanding of man, nor of Angell reach to the bottom of the same.
Why ye should accuse vsus that we should affirme,To ye 12. that God shall iudge the world, not according to Christes Euangell plainely reueled, but according to some other secret will, I see neither cause, nor reason. for no men do more constantly abyde by that which is written and reueled, no men do lesse care, to seke for newe reuelations or vncerten authorities, then we do. Oure continuall doctrine is, that God shall absolue from damnation such as by true faith embrase his dear Sonne Christe Iesus, and shall condemne to fire inextinguible all infideles, and such as delyte in manifest impietie and wickednes: and this iudgement do we beleue that God shall pronounce by his Sonne Christe Iesus to whom all iudgement is giuen. And for none other secrete will in that mater do we search. But if I lust, I coulde lay to some of your charges, that which none of you can be able to deny, to witt that some of you hauehave written (besides your priuie informations) that there is a doctrine more perfect then euer Saint Paule committed to writing, yea and further that some of you hauehave called the hole scriptures of God in doubte: and some do affirme that none is able by the word written to decide the controuersies that this day be in religion. And therefor that we must hauehave new Prophetes, and newe reuelations from heauen, before that any publicke and generall reformatiō shalbe made if any of you think that these thi…gs are but imagined by me, let him vnderunder his o…ne name impugne them, and I shall shewe witnesses which at this time, for diuers causes I omitte. Your iesting at vsus, your bold iudgement and condemnation by you pronounced against vsus, we remitt to him who shortly shall declare which of the two sortes be drowned in infidelitie, and leauing gods plaine scriptures, hauehave folowed the vanities of their owne imaginations. Now shortlie to that wc foloweth in these wordes.