An Answer to Blasphemous Cavillations by an Anabaptist, Section 20
THE ADVERSARIE.
The thirde argument gather they vponupon that which is written to the Romanes the ninthe chapter afore the children were borne that the purpose of God by election nught …,The 20 Section it was said, the elder shall serue the yonger… as it is written,Rom. 9. Iacob hauehave I loued, but Esau hauehave I hated for the true vnderstanding of this scripture, we must know first that these wordes, The elder shall s…rue the yonger, are not spoken of Iacob and Esau (for as concerning the flesh, Esau did neuer serue Iacob) but they are spoken of two nations which were to com of them, as the Lord said to R…becca, Not two men but two nations are in thy bellie: and these words afore the children were born, are not to be referred to the sentence which foloweth, Iacob hauehave I loued, but Esau hauehave I …ated. for there was no such thing spoken afore their birthe (as thow may plainely se in Genesis) but that was spoken many yeres after by the Prophete Malachie, Not of Iacob and Esau, but of two nations, of the Israelites ād Edomites, as the Prophete MalachieMalach. … expou…deth, which we may well vnderstand of the true Church and of the maligna…t churche: if that had bene spoken afore their birthe, then had the Lord not said, Iacob I hauehave loued and Esau I hauehave hated in the preterit tence, but Iacob shall I louelove and Esau shall I hate, in the future tence. As in the other sentence he saieth, the elder shall serue the yonger, and not the elder hath serued the yonger. Now the Lord loued Iacob of his own bountefull goodnes and fregrace, Esau he hated because of his wickednes, for the Lord abhorred al wicked doers. As Moses saieth it is not for thy righteousnes sake, or for thy right heart that thow goest to possesse their land, but for the wickednes of these nations, the Lord thy God doet… cast them owt before the, euen to perfourm the word which the Lord thy God swore vntounto thy fathers Abraham Isaak and Iacob. Here we se how that the Isra…lites receaue the la…d of p…omes, not for their own righteousnes saik, but onelyonly by the bountesull goodnes of God. Againe the Cananites are cast owt of the same lād not becaus it was gods pleasure, or that he delyted in their fall but for their abominatiōs which they co…mitted agaīst God, so that yt Iacob is belo…ed, it cometh of the fre grace, and goodnes of Go… and that Esau is hated, it cometh of his own euill deseruing, conforme to the saing of the Lord, Thy destruction O Israell is of thy self, and thy health cometh of me.
ANSWER.
Your colde and vnsauerie exposition which… To the 1.ye (folowing the prophane subtilitie of Castalio) make vponupon the wordes of the Apostle written in the nynth chapter to the Rom. is neither able to iustifie your error, neither yet to improue the doctrine, which vpo… the same we collect and gather, which is this: That as God by his fre benediction seperated the people of Israel from all nations of the earth, so did his fre election make difference betwext the men of the same people of whom he did frely choose som to saluation,Themynd of the Apostle in the 9. c…apit. to the Romains concerning Iacob and Esaw. and did appoint others, to eternal condemnation. Secondarely, that of this his fre Election there is none other cause, nor foundation, but his mere goodnes, as also his merciemercy, which after the fall of Adame doeth without all respect, had to their workes receaue and embrasse whom it pleaseth him. Thirdly that God in this his fre election is bound to no necessitie to offer the same to all indifferently, but contrarie wies he passed by such as it pleaseth him, and whō it pleaseth him he receaueth. These propositions (I say) are so euident in Paules wordes that they neuer can be moued by your malicious and ignorant wresting of the text: for in euerie one of Paules sentences, he striueth directly against your error. for where he saieth: Rebecca conceaued of one, that is of our father Isaak, he secludeth al cause that might hauehave bene by accidentes, which come in tyme, either in the father or in the mother: and in these wordes when the chidlren were not yet born, and had neither done good nor euill, he secludeth al respects that cā be alledged to hauehave bene in the children. But where he saieth, that the purpose of God might abide according to election, not of workes, but of the caller &c, is plainely denied merites, dignitie, or workes to com, to be any caus of gods fre election. For if he wold hauehave persuaded men to hauehave beleued that God had elected som in respect of their good workes to com, and had reiected others for their euill workes onelyonly, which he foresaw that they should do: Paul had not so vehe…ētly vrged these termes and sentences: That the purpose of God might abyde according to election, not of workes &c. but he should simply hauehave said. God hath chosen som in respect of their good workes, which he foresaw they should do, which therefor he wold reward first with his election, and after with his kingdome. But the plaine contrarie way to this, we se the Apostle vseth, pulling man altogither from contemplation of him self, to God, to his fre merciemercy, to his fre grace, and eternall purpose, and also to his most depe and profounde iudgements. Imagin what shift so euer ye can, ye shall neuer be able to auoid this plaine simplicitie of the Apostle.
With what face can ye denie,To the …. that these wordes, the elder shall serue the yonger, are not spoken of Iacob and Esau, seing that the Apostle in plaine wordes doeth affirm that they were spoken and ment of the two children, before they were born? He saieth not before the two natiōs were born, but before the childrē were born. Your reason is becaus as concerning the fleshe Esau did neuer serue Iacob, I answer neither yet did God say: the elder shall serue the yonget in the fleshe: but simply did pronounce: The elder shall serue the yonger. But well do ye declare what is your vnderstāding of dominion and seruitude, be it in fleshe, or be it in spirit.
Was it no kinde of seruitude I pray you yea euen in the fl…she,Esaw som maner of way serued Iacob in the fleshe. that Esau was compelled to begge po…age at Iacob, and for the same to sell all title of his birthright? was it no thraldome, that with crying owling, ād furious rores, he was compelled to begge the benediction, which Iacob had gotten, and yet could not obtein it? Did not his heart fele subiection when he seeth his father so constant in preferring Iacob to him, that by no meanes he wold retreat or call back one worde. We do not denie but the diuersitie was also established betwext the two nations: but that the heades should be secluded, that are ye neuer able to proue. But rather the battell, which did beginne in the mothers wombe, was established, and confirmed by the oracle of God to continue betwext the posterities of those two heades. Did Rebecca, and Isaak after he did se gods prouidence and will to be contrarie to that which he had purposed (which was to giuegive the benediction to Esau) did they, I say, vnderstand that Iacob had no parte in that promes touching his own person? The wordes of Isaak do witnes the contrarie: for he saieth,Gen. 27. I hauehave established him lord ouer the &c. By the same reason which ye make I may proue that these wordes were not spoken of their posterities, for during longer time, then either did Iacob or Esau liue, the Edomites did not serue the Israelites in the fleshe: which did onelyonly beginne in the latter dayes of Dauid, and did continue,2. Reg. 8. to the daies of Ioram (son of losaphat) when they departed from that obedience: neither yet were they euer after that, broght into subiection againe. but be therefore… the oracles, and promises of God vaine? Yea had they not their effect, bothe in the one people, ād in the other, euen when the one was in moste miserable bondage: first in Egypt, and after in Babylon: and whē the other was in greatest felicitie to mannes apperance? yet before God, was that sentence true: The elder shall serue the yonger. For he had further respect, then the present estate, as the Apostle doeth declare, that all the faithfull Patriarkes had. Iacob wold not hauehave interchanged the comfort, which he receaued in his first iourney, f…ō his fathers house, for all the worldlie ioy, Y• Esau possessed: for in se…g that scale or ladder, God fitting vponupon the head of it, the foote of it touching the earthe, vponupon the which did Angelles ascēd and come downe: ād in hearing that most ioy full and comfortable voice: I am the God of Abraham thy father & of Isaak: the lād whereupō thow slepest, I will giuegive to the,Gen. 28. and to thy sede &c. and lo I am with the and will kepe the whether so ener thow goest, ād will bring the againe into this land. In seing and hearing these thinges. I say, did Iacob vnderstand, that the benediction of God extended further then to temporall thinges, yea that rather it did extend to that vnion & coniunction, which was betwext God and man in that blessed sede promised, then to the possession, of the land of Canaan. for the one did neither Abraham, Isaak, nor Iacob possesse in their liues, neither yet their posteritie many yeares after: but the ioy of the other, did all the elect fele, and see and did reioyce as Christ Iesus doeth witnes, of our father Abraham.
That these wordes Iacob hauehave I loued, but Esau hauehave I hated are not written in Genesis, neither yet are spokē of God vntounto Rebecca none of vsus denieth: but that which ye thereof inferre, to witt that therefor they are not to be referred to that sentence, which Paul alledgeth, before the childrē were borne, and yer they did either good or badd, procedeth either of your blind ignorāce, orels of your malicious despite, which agai…st the fre grace of God, ye hauehave conceaued, for establishing of your own iustice.
Trew it is, these wordes were spoken by Malachie the Prophete, after the reduction of the people frome the captiuitie of Babylon. But when we hauehave a litle considered the scope and purpose of the Prophete, then shall we first consider whether he did vnsterstand the louelove of God, and his hatered, to appertein to the two peoples onelyonly, and not also to the two original heades. And after we shall see whether the mynd and plaine wordes of Paul will suffer and bear your interpretation or not.
Shortly after, that the people of Israel, I mean, the tribes of Iuda, Beniamin,The place of the Prophete Malachie and I …eui, were by the miraculous work of God, after the bondage of 70. yeres set at libertie and broght againe to Ierusalem, in which they did reedifie the temple, repaire the walles, ād beginne to multiplie, and so to grow to som strēgth within the citie, and land: they fall to their old nature, I mean to be vngrate and vnthankfull vntounto God. the people were slothfull: and the priestes, who should hauehave prouoked the people to the remembrance of those great benefites, were become euen like to the rest. The Lord therefor did raise vp his Prophete Malachie (who was the last before Christ) sharply to rebuke and plainely to cōuict this horrible ingratitude of that vnthankfull nation, who so shamefully had forgotten those so great benefits recently bestowed vponupon them. And thus beginneth he his prophecie: I hauehave loued you (saieth the Lord) in which wordes he speaketh not of a common louelove which in preseruing and feding all creatures, is commo… to the reprobate. but of that louelove by the which he had sanctified and seperated them from the rest of nations to hauehave his glorie manifested. But becaus they (as all vngrate persons do) did not consider wherin this his louelove towardes them more then towardes others did stand: he bringeth them to the fountein, demanding this question: was not Esau brother to Iacob (saieth the Lord) and neuertheles Iacob hauehave I loued and Esau I hauehave hated, and this he proueth not onelyonly by the diuersitie of the two coūtreis, which were giuegive… to their posterities, but also by that that God cōtinually shewed hī self loui…g to Iacob and to his posteritie, reducing them againe after long captiuitie, declaring him self as it were ennemy to Edom, whose desolation he wold neuer restore, but wold distroy, that which they shoulde go about to build. Let now the godlie reader iudge whether that the mynd of the Prophete was to seclude Iacob, in his person from the louelove of God, and Esau from his hatered: or that it was not rather to rebuke the vnthankfulnes of the people, who did not consider that vndeserued louelove, which God did shew to their first father, whiles he was yet in his mothers bosome. for where he saieth, was not Esau brother to Iacob, he wold put them in mynd that Iacob had no prerogatiue aboue Esau, yea that the was inferior to him as co…cerning the law of nature, and therefor that he oght to hauehave bene subiect vntounto him: but God of fre grace did preferre the yonger to the elder, which louelove and preferment he constantly did kepe to his sede after him.
This I am assured can no godlie man denie to be the verey meaning of the Prophete. Trew it is that he doeth include both the peoples, the one loued, and the other hated. But what reason is it that the heades shall be secluded? seing that the begīning of the diuersitie did first appere in them, and the Prophete plainely saieth: Iacob hauehave I loued, and Esau hauehave I hated. Now to the mind of the Apostle you say that these wordes: afore the children were born, are not to be referred to the sentence which followeth: Iacob hauehave I loued, Esau hauehave I hated: and the cause ye add as we before hauehave declared. I answer that the most iust iudgementes of God are fearefull, and your blindnes oght to admonishe all men to examin them selues with what consciēce they go to intreate gods secrete mysteries. If that sentence, before the children were born oght not to be referred to these wordes: Iacob hauehave I lo…ued, and Esau hauehave I hated, I pray you to what wordes oght they to be referred? Did the Apostle speak thē at all aduenture, without respect to any thing folowing? I trust ye will grant asmuch as God spak, to witt that before the children wer born God said, The elder shal serue the yonger. and then I pray you answer whether ye think, that the preferment of Iacob to Esau proceded frome louelove or frome hatred? or if the subiectiō of Esau to his brother was not a declaration of gods hatred? If you denie, yet will the Prophete condemne you, as before we hauehave proued, ye can not escaip with the solution which a writer defending fre will giueth, which is this: That there mention is made onelyonly of temporall and carnal benedictiō, ment vnderunder the name of louelove, and of pouertie with barrennes of grounde vnderstand by the name of hatred, which solution is so colde, that it perisheth in the self for I think no man to be so blynd, but that he seeth the mynd of the Apostle to be bēt vponupon the spirituall benediction, as in his hole disputation is euident. But let it be that the corporall benediction (which we vtterly exclude not, be there vnderstād and mēt, yet that neither helpeth him nor you. for where so euer gods establyshed louelove is, there is lief, where so euer his established hatred is, there is death: but vponupon Iacob and vponupon his sede (spiritual I mean) was established the louelove of God, as the Prophete affirmeth, and our Apostle most pro foundely alledgeth: and vponupon Esau, and vponupon his posteritie was established and confirmed the hatred: Ergo… vponupon him and them remained death. Cōsider now how that the Apostle after these wordes: The elder shall serue the yonger, ioyneth this sentēce: as it is written, Iacob hauehave I loued, but Esau I hauehave hated. In which wordes the holie Gost agreeth together the wordes of the Prophete, and the wordes of God spoken to Rebecca, and maketh the one to interprete the other. for where God saieth, the elder shall serue, that expōdeth the Prophete, God hated Esau: and where he pronounceth dominion to the yonger, that the Prophete explaneth saīg: Iacob hauehave I loued. And when did God thus louelove the one, and hate the other, pronouncing the one to be Lord and the other to be seruant? While they were yet (saieth he) in their mothers wombe, and before they had either done good or bad. Denie now if ye can, that the former wordes oght not to be referred to the subsequentes. your malicious myndes compell me often to repete one thing.
Your reasoning of the preterit and future tence, is so foolishe, that it nedeth no confutation. For we confesse that God spake not those wordes to Rebecca, but that the Prophete,Why the Apostle maketh neither me…tion of Abraham nor of Isaak, but of Iacob, and of Iacob being in his mothers wombe. as is declared, spake them after: by the which he sendeth them to the ancient louelove of God. which begā before that euer their father could know or serue God. In which is to be noted, that he maketh neither mētiō of A…raham nor of Isaak, but of Iacob, and of Iacob in his mothers wombe, to pull doune this pryde, which ye with the Pelagians and Papistes hauehave conceaued of your workes, going before, and foresene by God to folow in you. But the Prophete of God did so daūton the stowt heartes of that his people (were they in other thinges neuer so wicked) that they did not alledge, that any cause was either in their father, or in them, why that they, or he should be preferred to other nations, and specially to the Edomites, who discended from Esau in all thinges like to Iacob, gods onelyonly grace excepted.
I praise God that so far ye will confes of gods eternall trueth, that it was not for their righteousnes, that Israel receaued the inheritance, but onelyonly becaus God frely loued their fathers. But why so sodanly ye slyde frome the principall purpose, leauing Esau and his posteritie, a…d do enter to speak, why ye Cananites were cast furth,… se no iust cause. for neither doeth Moses, in the first oracle of God, neither the Prophete Malachie, in explaning the same, neither yet our Apostle in applying boeth those places to the spirituall benediction, lay the sede of Iacob against the Cananires, but Iacob is set against Esau, and the people discending frome the one, against the people that discended from the other. The question there might iustly hauehave bene demanded: what prerogatiue hath Iacob aboue Esau? Moises the Prophete and the Apostle do answer,The grace of God onelie, made the difference betwext Iacob and Esau. assuredly none, except onelyonly grace, which made difrence betwext them, whom nature in all thinges had made equall. for bothe were come of Abraham, bothe of one father, both of one mother, both conceaued at once, both fostered vnderunder one climate, region influence of sterres, and yet it was said. The elder shall serue the yonger.
We know that the Cananites came of a cursed father, whom if Paule should hauehave compared with the Israelites, they should hauehave complained of iniurie done vntounto them… And his reasons had bene easely dissolued. for if he had said, ye electiō of God is fre, ād hath respect to no workes, and had broght in the sede of Abraham elected, and the sede of Cham reiected and accursed, for probation of the same, they sodanly should and iustly might hauehave replied, Cham mocked his father, and therefor was he and his posteritie accursed, and so had God respect to workes: But the Apostle loketh more circumspectly to so graue a mater, and therefor did choose such an example, as wherin, the witt nor reason of man can find no cause of inequalitie. Of this I thoght good to put you and the readers in mind lest perchance ye should imagin, that as greate cause of reprobation was found in Esau before he was born, as Moses laieth to the charge of the Cananites. And so I perceaue in a part ye do. for in the end and after ye hauehave affirmed that the cananites were cast owt of the land by reason of their wickednes, ye return to Esau (repenting your selues I trust that so imprudentlie ye had slipped frō one linage to an other). And these wordes ye affirme, That Esau is hated, it commeth of his own euill deseruing conforme to the saying of the Lord: Thy destruction (… Israell) is of thy self, and thy health cometh of me.
In which affirmation,An answer. and pretensed probation of the same I fynd no les negligence in you, then before I hauehave shewē ād prouē: for as most impudētly before ye cōfounded ye sede of Abraham, who by gods own mowth was blessed, with the sede of Cham, who in expressed wordes was accursed: so here ye confound Israel elected of God to be his people in Iacob, with Edom reiected from that honor in their father Esau, before that either the one did good or the other did euill. The wordes of the Prophete which ye bring to proue,The place of Hoseas by the Anabaptistes wrested is restored to the natural meanyng. that Esau was hated for his euill deseruing, were neither spoken to him nor to his posteritie, but they were spoken to that people whom God had preferred to all nations of the earthe, to whom he had shewen his manifold graces, and to whom he had bene saluation and help, euen in their most desperate calamitie. But then fore their defection from him and for their Idolatrie committed, were become most afflicted and miserable, dailie tēding to further destructiō. To these I say, ād not to Esau nor yet to his posteritie did God say: ô Israell thow hast destroied thy self, or ô Israell it hath destroyed the, for so is the hebrew text, for in me is thy health. In wc wordes he repressed the grudgeing ād ye murmurīg of the people, who in their miserie did rather accuse God of crueltie thē repēt or acknowledge their sinnes, and Idolatrie to be the cause of their ruyne: as in Ezechiel well may be sene. to such God saieth, Israel thow art in moste extreme miserie, thy honor is decayed, and the glorie of thy former aige is now turned to ignominie and shame. What is the cause? it lieth not in me. for as I am eternall and immutable, so is not my hand shortned this day, neither yet my power diminished, more then when I did deliuer the frome the bondage of Egipt. In me is thy health now, as, it was then, yf that thy sinnes did not make seperation betwext the and me. Plaine it is first that here no mention is made of Esau, nor Edom, but of Israel onelyonly, and secondarely that God speaketh nothi…g in this place, why he did first elect Iacob, and reiect Esau, but why it was that Israel which some tymes was honorable, ād feared of all nations, was then becom most miserable, and afflicted on all sides. Except that you be able to proue that Esau committed as manifest Idolatrie before he was borne, and before that Iacob was preferred vntounto him, as Israel did before they came to destruction, y… hauehave proued nothīg of your affirmation. further I say that if Esau was hated for his euill deseruing, then must it nedes follow that Iacob was loued for his well deseruing by the argument folowing of the nature of the contraries.
But that directly repugneth to the wordes of Moises,Qui… contrariorum eadem e… ratio. to the interpretation of all the Prophetes and to the mind and strong reasons of the Apostle, who plainely denie workes by past or to cum, to be any cause of gods fre election. Trew it is we be elected in Christ Iesus to be holie, and to walk in good workes, which God hath prepared. But euerie reasonable man knoweth, what difference there is betwext the cause and the effect. Election (in which I include the fre grace and fauor of God) is the fountaine frome which springeth faith, and faith is the mother of all good workes. But what foolishnes were it therefor to reason: My workes are the cause of my faith; and my faith is the cause of my election. Thus gently I put you in mynd with greater reuerēce and circūspection to interpret ād applie the sacred word of God. Thus ye procede