An Answer to Blasphemous Cavillations by an Anabaptist, Section 27

An Answer to Blasphemous Cavillations by an Anabaptist · Section 27

p. 190THE ADVERSARIE.

The confutation of the second error.

Here you se,The 27 section. how they deuide all men into two sortes, one elected or chosen which by no meanes can perishe, and the other reiected or reprobate before the world, so that by no meanes, can they be saued. What can the deuill wishe his membres to teach more for the aduancement of his Kingdom, then this? What can be inuented to prouoke men to liue a careles, and libertyne life, more 1then if they be persuaded that neither well doing auaileth or pleaseth God nor euill doing doeth hinder vntounto saluatiō. this is asmuch as if one should counsell the pacient to refuse all healthfull Phisick and good diet and so wilfully to be the occasion of his own death. for if they be (say they) of the elect sorte, thogh they do commit theft, fornicatiō, adulterie, murther or any other sinne, yet be they still so beloued and fauored of God, that they can not finally perish. And if they be of the reprobate sorte (say they) neither repetance, amendement of life, absteining frome euill, neither fasting praier Almes nor other good dede can auale. for they be so hated of God before the world, that by no meanes they can obtein his fauor, but of mere necessitie, do what they can they must perish, seing it is so saieth the naturall mā let vsus set the cock on hoope ād let the world slyde, let vsus eate and drinke, for to morow shall we die. so the people p. 191sit downe to eat and drink, and then ryse vp to play, why masters 2hauehave ye no conscience thus to cause the people of God to sinne, se ye not how ye be led with the same spirit that Balaam was led withall when he counselled to giuegive occasion of sinne to the people, I 3know ye wil answer, that I mean not so. Mean what ye list, and do what ye can, yet this is the issue and frute of your doctrine, and who so euer is thus corrupt by you, without he repent he shall die the death, but God shall require his bloode of your hāds. Marke well your disciples how many of them endeuore thē selues to bring furth the frutes of repentance, how many of thē seke for power to crucifie the flesh with the lusts and cōcupiscence thereof. How many of thē cā we perceaue by their conuersatiō, that they hauehave cast of the old mā, ād put on the new mā, walking sincerely in their vocation ād the true feare of God. but if they accustom to frequent your congregations, as the papistes do the masse, thē be they faithfull brethren, I hold my peace, of that ye vse to hauehave respect 4of persons preferring the welthie, which if they be liberal, thoghe they be drowned in many vices, you vse to help vp such sores with this saying: There is none during this life that cā be knowē to be in the election, be he neuer so vertuous, nor any owt of the electiō be he neuer so vnrighteous, after this maner ye do heall thē vp, so that they nede not to indeuor them selues to bring furth the frutes of liuelie faith, for the surest tokē of their electiō they think to be, that they be of your congregation. but Christ saieth in that 5shall al mē know that ye are my disciples if you do what so euer I cōmād you, ād againe ye shal know thē by their frutes. for a good mā owt of y^e treasure of his heart bringeth furth good things yet ye say no mā cā be knowē to be either in the election or owt of the election during this life, and for proofe hereof ye alledge the saying 6of Paul▪ the deuil doeth transforme him self into an Angel of light. to which I breifly answer, that God doeth neuer trāsforme hī self into an Angell of darknes, wherefor so long as ye walk in darknes ye be not of God. But thus ye take the most shameful mē by the had flatterīg thē, so that they cā not return frō their wickednes whereby it appereth, that ye be not sent frō God. for ye by your doctrine giuegive occasiō to the people to sinne. And the Lord saieth, if they had bene in my coūsell they had turned my people, frome their euill waies ād wicked imaginations, but such lippes, such letuce, 7such disciples, such masters. of your chief Apollos be persecutors p. 192on whō the bloode of Seruetus crieth a vēgeāce. so doeth the blood of others mo whom I coulde name. but forasmuch as God hath partly alredie reuenged their bloode and serued som of their persecuters, with the same measure where with they measured to others, I will make no mention of them at this tyme. And to declare their wickednes, not to hauehave proceded of ignorance and humane infirmitie but of indured malice, they hauehave for a perpetuall memorie of their crueltie sett furth bookes affirming it to be lawfull to persecute, and put to death such as dissent from them in controuersies of religiō, whome they cal blasphemers of God. notwithstanding they, afore they came to autoritie, they were of an other iudgement, and did bothe say and write, that no man oght to be persecuted for his conscience saik. but now they are not onelyonly becom persecuters, but also they hauehave giuen, as far as lieth in them, the sword into the handes of bloodie tyrantes. Be these I 8pray you the shepe whom Christ sent furth in the middest of wolues? can the shepe persecute the wolf? doth Abel kil Cayn…doeth Dauid (thogh he might) kill Saul? shortly doeth he, which is born of the spirit kill him which is born after the fleshe? Mark how ye be fallen in to most abhominable tyranny, and yet ye se it not. 9Thus I am constreined euen of conscience to write. That if it shal please God to awaik you owt of your dreā, that ye may perceaue how me error haeth drowned you in mo errors, and hath broght you to a sleping securitie, that when ye walk euē after the lustes of your heartes thirsting after bloode and persecuting poore men for their conscience saik, ye be blynded, and se not your selues, but say tushe, we be predestinat what so euer we do, we are certē we cā not fall owt of gods fauor. A wake therefor and looke what dā ger ye be in, and how by your poisoned doctrine ye infect the people of God, and draw them to a secure, ydle, and careles life.

ANSWER.

The crimes laid to our charge in this mater be haynous. For first we are accused that we prouoke men to a careles ād libertine life. So that by vsus the people do nothīg, …uteate and drink and ryse vp to play.

That we hauehave no conscience, but being led with the spirit of Balaam giuegive occasion of sinne to the people.

That none other frute doeth ensue our doctrine, p. 193…ut libertie to sinne, for our disciples are cruel murthe…ers, subiect to all iniquitie, respecting persones, and flattering sinners.

And last, y^t by our poisoned docttrine, we infect the people,answer to the first. and bring thē to a secure, ydle, and careles life.

Because I wil omit no notable part of your booke to ouerslippe without some reasonable answer, I wil folowe youre ordre, althogh it be confused. If you be able by plaine scriptures, to proue a thirde sort of mē, which nether be elect, nether yet reprobat, then shal we learne of you, other wise to deuide. But if God by his first voice pronounced in this mater, made menciō but of two sedes. and if Christ Iesus whē he shal come shall set one army on the right hand, and an other vponupon the left hand, without mencion made of anie third sort of men, we can not repent, nor yet call back the trueth of our doctrine, albeit that ye in despite and furie cry.

what can the deuil wishe his membres to teach more for the aduancement of his kingdome then this? what can be inuented more to prouoke men to liue a careles and libertine life, more then if they be persuaded that nether wel doing auaileth or pleaseth God, nor euil doing hindreth vntounto saluacion. and so forthe ye procede in youre first accusacion.

Before I hauehave required, and yet againe do require of Gods faithful lieutenants in earth, I meane of lawful Magistrates, who rule in gods feare, whome ye vtterly studie to abolish, and depriue, of them I saie, I hauehave required iustice to be ministred betwext vsus, and you, without respect of persones.

Let the heauen and earth (if men wil not) yea let God and his holie Angelles, in whose presence we walke, beare recorde and witnes how vniustely and maciously ye accuse vsus, that we prouoke the people to a careles & libertine life. If euer it can be proued, by our doctrine, or writing, that we affirme, that there is no difference betwext vertue and vice, that the one nether pleaseth God, nether yet the other doeth displease him, p. 194let vsus without merciemercy die the death. But and if the hole scope of oure doctrine tend to the cōtrarie, yea if our liues & conuersacion (how so euer the deuil doeth blynde your eyes) be such, as they onelyonly may conuict your blasphemie. And last, if the order of that citie where this doctrine is taught, be such in punishment of iniquitie, and that without respect of persone, that the like iustice hath neuer bene executed against open offē ders sithence the daies of the Apostles, in any christian comen welth. Then can we not cease to desire that this your former blasphemie may be reuenged vponupon your owne heades.

We do not denie but this is one part of our doctrine, that as Gods counsel is immutable, so is his election sure and stable, insomuche that the elect can not finally be reprobated, nether yet that the reprobat can euer become elect nomore then the wheat can become darnell or darnel become wheat, but do we adde no more then this?The doctrine of th…se that defend Gods ete…nall Predesti…ation. do we teache men to set cock on hoope, and so to let the worlde slide as scoffingly ye write? or do we not rather continually affirme, that as God of his great merciemercy, hath called vsus to the dignitie of his children, so hathe he sanctified vsus, and appointed vsus, to walk in purenesse and holines all the daies of our life, that we shall continually fight against the lustes and inordinat affections, that remaine in this our corrupt nature, that if we finde not the spirit of Christ working in vsus that then we can neuer be assured of our election? for the conscience of all such as with out bridle folowe iniquitie, can neuer be assured of Gods present fauour during the time that they delite in sinne, finally none of your anabaptistical sort, require greater obediēce to be giuen vntounto God, and vntounto his lawe, then we do, except that ye put your scollers in vaine esperance, that by the power of their owne free wil, they may at length come to such perfection as no sinne shal stire in them. But we by the contrarie attributing all to the free grace of p. 195God do affirme that continually in this life, we must confesse, that sinne so remaineth in vsus, that except that God, for Christ Iesus saik did pardō the same, his wrath iustly shoulde be kindled against vsus. Let all our writings and the hole some of our doctrine beare recorde whether thus we teache or not. And are not the liues and honest conuersation of many thousands (we praise God of his great merciemercy) professing the same doctrine,The god lie life & death of a great nomber in our daies proueth the aduersaeries to be most impudent liers. To the … able to conuince your malicious impudencie. how many hauehave left their countries possessions and lands, and for libertie of their cōsciēce onelyonly, do liue a sober and contētible lief? how many hauehave giuē, & daily do giuegive their liues, & blood, for the testimonie of Christes trueth, and for that they wil not defile them selues with idolatrie?

And yet thou ashamest not to ask how many of thē can we perceiue by their conuersacion, that they hauehave cast of the olde man, and put on the new man walking sincerely in their vocacion. shal not the great multitude of Christes deare martyres, of late in England (thou wilt not say, that they were all anabaptistes) the long pacience of our bretheren in France,The aduersaries make no consci+̄ce to be presen… at the masse and that cruel persecution of late risen in Italy, Naples, and Spaine for Christes trueth onelyonly, put thy venemous tongue to silence?

If I shoulde demande of thee which of the two did moste mortifie the flesh, he that for conscience sake leaueth countrie friends, riches and honours, or he that to gape for worldly promotions,Anabaptist…s wold hauehave all things comone. or yet for any other purpose doeth couer him self with Esaus clothes (I vse your owne termes) and so denying what he is, wil sweare, if nede be, that he is not Iaakob, which of these two Isay, doest thou think to hauehave come nerest to the forsaking of him self? Or yet another, whither doth he walke most sincerely in his vocacion, that liuing vponupon his iust labors is redy to communicate, according to his habilitie to the necessitie of his poor bretheren? or he who loitring in one place or trotting p. 196from countrie to countrie wolde hauehave all things in common contrary to the ordre of nature and policie? or yet the third, which of the two, doeth most crucifie the lustes and concupiscences of the flesh, he that laieth downe his necke euen vnderunder the axe of a cruell and vniust Magistrate, and that also when he suffereth vnrighteously: or he that wolde abolish and destroie the good ordinance of God, all lawful Magistrates and distinction in policies. That you be the one, and we be the other of these two sortes of men it is euident ynough. And vponupon whome the crime cleaueth and iustely may be laied, further examination shal declare. Nowe come I to the ordre of that Citie, in the which this doctrine is taught, receiued, and mainteined. What maketh y^e poore citie of Geneua, poore I say, in mans eyes, but riche before God, by the plentifull aboundāce of his heauenlie graces, what maketh it, I say, so odious to the carnal mē of this worlde? assuredly not this doctrine, where with ye charge vsus. for that coulde wel please the carnal mā,What maketh the citie of Geneua odious to the world. to let him liue at his pleasure, without all punishment. Is it not the iust rigor of iustice, and the seueritie of discipline executed therein, in such sort, that no manifest offender, where so euer he hathe comitted his offence, doeth there escaip punishment? Is not this it, that so doeth offend, not onelyonly the licencious of the worlde? but euen you dissembling hypocrites, can not abide, that the sworde of Gods vengeance shal strike the murtherer, the blasphemer, and such others, as God by his worde commandeth to die. not so by yo^r iudgementes, he must liue, he may repent. And those comon welthes, do ye highlie praise, where men may liue as thei list, be subiect to no lawe nor ordre, yea where y^e drunkard and such others abhominable persons are permitted,Anabap…istes w…ld han… … punished▪ to liue quietly & finde fauor to escape punishmēt & shame. But because in y^e stretes of Geneua dare no notable malefactor more shew his face (all praise and glorie be vntounto God) then dare the owle p. 197in the bright sunne therefor is it hated. Therefore it is called blood thirstie, and thus blasphemously traduced, as after ye write.

Thou saiest y^t amongest vsus there is respect of persōs,To the … That we preferre the welthie, which if they be liberal, althogh they be drowned in many vices, yet we vse to heale vp their sores, &c.

I am assured y^t thy owne conscience doeth conuict thee of a malicious lie, in thus writing. for thou canst not be ignorant, what the citie of Geneua hathe of late yeres susteined, for rooting out those pestilent persons, who labored to destroy the Lords vineyard planted in the same. And what was y^e cause y^t so they were coniured against the libertie of Christes Euangil. The hatered wilt thou and they say, which they did beare against strangears. I answer, but no mostrangears were then in Geneua then were before, when y^e chief captaines of that faction were most earnest professors of the Euangile (in mouth I meane). And in verie dede, if they wolde hauehave labored, to hauehave expelled the strangears, they had bene enemies to their owne comoditie. for by the multitude of strāgears, their comon welth doth florish. and none did receaue such benefite of strāgears, as those that required Christes doctrine to be ouerthrowen.

They were papistes (thou wilt say) and therefore hated y^e religion. I answere in their defence,Geneua was sore vexed because they wold not suffer sin unpunished. y^t in mouth and external profession they were not, but alwaies they protested, y^t they wolde neuer reuolt to papistrie again. But in few wo…ds, I wil open the cause of their conspiracie. Thei were corrupt in manners, filthie of life, peruerters of iustice, and such finally, as by whome, the blessed worde of God, was sclandered and euil spoken by. The preachers called for reformaciō of manners. They boldely and sharply rebuked, euen those that were in highest auctoritie. One of y^e chiefest of y^t band was excō municated, and so did remaine mo yeres then one. The consistoire called for iustice to be executed, and for penalties p. 198to be apointed. for the inobedient & open contēners. But no thing coulde preuaile, the multitude of the wicked was so great, y^t in votes and voices they did preuaile. And so was y^e iniquitie of y^e wicked maīteined for a lōg ceason. Which beīg considered, y^e godlie aswel y^t were natiue borne, as also the strāgers, consulted vponupon the next & surest remedie, and that after that not onelyonly the moste parte of strangers were determined to depart, but y^t also, y^t faithfull seruant of Christ Iesus, had in publike sermō cōmended his flock, with the weping eyes of many to the protection, and prouidence of God, and had publikely pronoūced, y^t he wolde be no minister in y^t church where vice coulde not be punished, according to gods worde, where the wicked shoulde tryuphe and make lawes at their pleasure. After this consultacion it was concluded, that a resonable nombre of strangears whose fidelitie & honest conuersacion had long bene tried and wel knowen, shoulde be made burgesses, and free to hauehave voice in counsell, & in making▪ ciuil statutes. which being vnderstand the wicked began more manifestly to vtter thēselues, they opponed thē selues to the Magistrates, they plainely … denied y^t any strangers shoulde be free, they appeled to the greater counsel, w^c being gathered, did iustifie the decree of the Sindiques (so be the chief magistrates called). Shortly after did y^e hole vennom burst out: for after feasting, and banqueting of all sortes of villanes, was the conspiracie concluded and put in execution. for with one consent they inuade vponupon the night one of the chief Magistrates, they cried victoire, and triumphe. but God sodanly repressed that furie, so assisting with out the arme of mā his seruant and lieutenant for that time appointed, in that citie, that first he recouered the ensigne of his iust and lawfull office againe, & there after so put to flight, that rebillious and great multitude, that some being apprehended and cōmitted to prison, the rest were dispersed by the onelyonly power of God. for that is a thing p. 199euident and plaine, that the nombre of the one, did in twentie degrees, surmount the other. This do I write, to let the simple reader vnderstand, althogh thou be blynded, what was the original of the trouble, which Geneua did after suffer. What did the strangears, I pray the gaine by their libertie? as touching the worlde, I say nothing, for no kynd of comoditie they lacked before which after they did obteine, onelyonly this excepted, that in counsel, they shoulde hauehave voices▪ and place to speake, which thing also did onelie offend those oppressors of iustice and mainteiners of iniquitie. for thereby did they perceiue, that their interprises shoulde be broken, and that statutes shoulde be made, to reforme their insolencie. To procede iustice being executed without respect of person, vponupon those that were apprehēded the rest who did escape to great nōbre, were pronounced rebelles. Then began skirmyshes vponupon euerie side of Geneua, victualles were commanded to be cut of, great threatnings were blowen in the eares of al y^e godlie, and when these coulde not preuaile. then were deuised practise after practise, treason was conspired, and the ennemies hoped for possession of the citie. But this being reueled and y^e practisers punished, …atha… reaturneth to his owne nature again. for after that no intreatmēt coulde preuaile, open ware was denounced against. them, a daie was sett that they shoulde be restored, ād that with great sommes of money to be deliuered vntounto thē, by reason of their former losses & iniuries susteined. and this sentence was pronounced not, by y^e rebelles onelyonly, but by a potent comon welth, and their ancient friendes. Hereupon were made, by the rebelles fyres of ioye, Defiance was sent, the daie was appointed, that the siege shoulde beginne, and victuales shoulde be cut of, esperance nor comfort rested none to vsus, but God and the messingers of his worde, which then sounded the tr…pet most boldly and most clearly, promising euē in our greatest desperation, the same glorious deliuerance, which shortly p. 200after followed. for God by his power, did mittigat that rage, and conuerted the hearts of our auncient alliance, to remembre their dueties toward God, and his seruāts, and so to enter with the citie of Geneua into a newe societie and league. Nowe to returne to thee malicious sclanderer, if we were such as thou doest accuse vsus, to wit, that we put no difference betwext vice and vertue,The aduersaries are malicious sclā derers of the tru…th. that we suffre the people in a dissolute life, that we respect y^e persones of the rich, and heale their sores, with vnprofitable plaisters, that we onelyonly desire, that all men frequēt our congregation: and that we esteme that to be the surest signe of their election. If these I saie, were true, to what purpose, did all the preachers endanger their liues (and that continually by the space of thre yeres) for obteining of discipline? why shoulde many godlie strangears hauehave rather chosen to hauehave left that comon welth in the which they were, with quietnes permitted to liue, as best semed to them, rather then that they wolde abide the sight of iniquities y^t dail… did increase? And why did the godlie with in that citie so hasard libertie and life, that rather they had determined to die in defence of a iust cause, then that euer any manifest ennemie to God, and vertue shoulde be admitted to beare rule in that comon welthe? If we had bene of that opinion, which most vilanously thou laiest to our charge, nether vertue pleaseth God, nether yet y^t vice displeaset him, had we not bene most foolish, and most miserabl of all other creatures? Plaine it is y^t our power to mān…iudgemēt was nothing cōparable to y^e power of o^r aduesaries: place of refuge was none left to y^e godlie their asēbled. And yet let y^e ennemies thē selues witnes again▪ vsus, if in the least one iote, their request was granted. ye let the place of execution w…tnes, if when we lok… for nothing, but for the extremitie to be attempted, more fauor were shewed to the offenders apprehende… then if no suche trouble had bene feared, or apperin. If thou repliest, that greater offences are ouer sene p. 201such as fauor our doctrine. I answer all those in mouth, did fauor y^e same Euāgil, which we professe. The cause of the strife did onelyonly arise, for the puritie of life which oght inseperably to be ioyned with y^• externall proffession. I coulde recite mo thē one of those, that semed to be then pillers in Geneua, as touching riches, worlde lie estimation, and liberalitie towards the poor, being also of y^e nōbre of the strāgears, who for suspicion of offences were, & remaine to this daie, some exiled som condēned to perpetuall preson. for whose deliuerance, and receauing to the Church againe, there hath bene offered greater sommes, then perchance might intise an anabaptist to go the masse (I wil not say to be a Papist) and yet hauehave they obteined nothing.

Now briefly to recite that which I hauehave laid against thy first accusatiō, if y^u be nether able to proue by o^r doctrine, nor writings, nether by our owne liues, and cōuersations, nether yet by the lacke of iustice, in that citie in which this doctrine is taught, receaued and mainteined, with what face canst thou affirme, that we teach the people a careles, and libertine life? Hathe euer any man more strongly, and more earnestly confuted those pestilent opinions of the libertines, then hath that mā whome most ye accuse for this doctrine? Let his notable worke writen against the libertines, twelue yeres ago, be a testimonie against your man…fest malice.

Thus hauehave I in answering to your first accusation, answered some what to other crimes conteined in all the foure. Now in answering to your second, I wil labor to touche, and put ende to that which resteth in the other

Ye accuse vsus, that we hauehave no conscience,answer to the … accusation. to deceaue the people of God. for thus ye demand, why masters. (I know this phrase of olde) hauehave ye no cōscience, thus to cause the people of God to sinne, Se ye not that ye be led with the same spirit, that Balaam was led with all, how he counselled, to giuegive occasion of sinne to the people of God, and so aftre that ye hauehave taken all excuse, as p. 202ye think from vsus, ye boldely pronounce your sentence that the blood of such as perish, shalbe required of our handes.

I heare the accusation verey vehemently intended▪ but when I seke for the probation, of eueryevery part, I find none, but accusation followeth accusation. for still ye accuse vsus, that we are flatterers of sinners, that we take wicked men by the hand, that we heale them with this saing: there is none during this worlde, y^t can be knowen to be in the election, be he neuer so vertuous, nor any out of the election, be he neuer so vnrighteous. after this maner (say you) do we heale them vp, so that they nede not to endeuor them selues to bring furth the frutes of liuelie faith.answer to the 3. 4. 5. & 6 These I say, be your accusations, the probation whereof, ye delay so long, that after ye neuer remember it. And so must your auctorite stand in force bothe to accuse, and be admitted for witnes. But we must except against you, for two causes most resonable, first because ye are our accusers, and our partie aduersarie. Secondarely becaus ye are venemous liers, persons defamed, and blasphemers of God. That ye are vennemous and malicious liers, I hauehave in diuers places before sufficētly proued, how ye falsifie, and peruerte the plaine Scriptures, how ye adde to our wordes, and diminish from them, at your pleasure: and finally how that ye inuent, and lay crymes to our charge, wihich ye be neuer able to proue, as here in this place, ye shame not to affirm, that we heale vp the sores of those that be drowned in vices, with such wordes, as ye write. We hauehave had offenders in dede amongest vsus, (I mean in the cōgregations which ye accuse) of diuerse sortes and diuerse estates. Let any cōuict vsus y^t ether in exhorting, admonishing, or in executing iudgemēt, we ha…e vsed any such persuasion, or wordes to y^e offenders. But if the offender was to be admonished or exhorted, if we hauehave not in gods name, exhorted thē to walk as it became y^e sonnes of light: and if iudgemēt was to be executed against p. 203thē; if we hauehave not vsed the ruele of gods word, iudgeing of the tree, not after the secrete election of God, but according to the manifest frutes, pronoucing that membre vnworthie to abyde in the bodie, whose corruption was able to infect the rest of the mēbres, If this ordre I say, be so streitlie kept amongest vsus that neuer sithēce the daies of y^e Apostles, was it more vprightly kept in any congregation. with what faces can ye say so that we take wicked men by the hand? that we teach them, that they nede not to brīg furthe the frute of a liuely faith? ye alledge that Christ affirmed, that a good man from the good treasure of his heart bringeth furth good things. And so do we and do no lesse affirme, then ye do, althogh in an other vnderstanding (as I before hauehave declared) that we must obserue the commandement of Christ, if we will be knowen to appertein to him. We think it no assured nor certen signe of election, to be ioyned with this, or that cōgregation. We kuow that satan was once ioyned with y^e Angelles, Iudas with Christ Iesus, and many fals brethren, with the company of the best reformed churches and chiefest Apostles. but wōder it is, that ye burden vsus with y^t, in this one case, w^c is your plaine doctrine, which with toothe and nale ye defend. Do ye not plainely write that no man is so elected in Christ Iesus, but that he may fall & vtterly become a reprobate? and none is so reprobated, but by repētance he may be elected. The plaine contrarie whereof we teache. and mainteine. O say you, ye mean of the signes, that they are neuer certen. I answer that in verie dede somtymes the elect, as touching mannes iudgement, is lyke in estate with the reprobate. And againe that sometimes the reprobate do beautifully shyne in the eyes of men for a space, as exemples be euident. But yet I am sure, that you be neuer able to proue that we affirme, that in this life, no difference may be knowen betwext the two. The end of our doctrine, tēdeth to this but chiefly to proue, y^t from election cometh faith, from a liuelie p. 204faith do good workes spring, in w^c the elect continuing and going forward, not onelyonly make they their own election, sure, as. S. Peter doeth teache, but also giuegive a testimonie of it to others, before whom their good workes do shyne. And so by y^e cōtrarie signes and effectes, we affirme that the reprobate do manifest and vtter them selues. And so I saie that wonder it is, that ye burthen vsus as that we shoulde affirme, that no man can be knowen ether to be in the election, or out of the election, during this life. But more wōder it is that ye affirme vsus to adduce these wordes of S. Paul: The deuil doeth transforme him selfe in to an angel of light, for probatiō of our purpose. for I, for my owne part do protest before y^e Lord Iesus, that I neuer did so vnderstand that place of y^e Apostle, nether yet thinke I that any of you be able to shewe, in any of our writings, those wordes adduced for probation of that purpose.

Trewe it is that I hauehave long vnderstand, and to this houre do vnderstand, that by those wordes, wolde the Apostle admonish the Corinthiās, and all others that sodēly they should not receaue, and beleue euerie person, & doctrine that offereth it selfe, vnderunder y^e cloke of iustice, and of trueth: but that diligently we shoulde trie the spirites from whence they are & whether they come, frō God, or not. for if the deuil the great angel of darkenes enemie to mankind, and father to all fals prophetes, can yet so transforme him self, that for a time his purpose and intent are not sene, but that vnderunder the cloke of amitie and louelove, he seketh o^r destruction as in tempting the woman, doeth plainly appere, how much more can his seruāts and soldiors, being deceitful workers transforme them in to y^e Apostles of Christ, pretending at the first entre, nothing but louelove and iustice, nothing but gods glorie, nothing but mortification of the flesh, and such like, most beautiful pretences, although that yet these thīgs be most farre frome their heartes. Thus I say do I, and with me, I am assured who so euer depely p. 205do wey the purpose of the Apostle, in that place, vnderstand that sentēce, and do not as ye falsly write, alledge it to proue, that no man can be knowen to be ether in the election, or out of the election during this life. It may be, that we hauehave saied and writen, (as the trueth is) that no man coulde hauehave knowē, by the good workes of that happie thief hanged with Christ, that he had bene gods elect, before that in that anguissie, so instātly he began to defend Christes innocencie, so sharpely to rebuke y^e other being a blasphemer: and humbly to submit himself, and praie, that Christ wolde remembre him,Luke 23Luke 23 when that he came in to his kingdome: And contrarie wise that none coulde hauehave defined by the euil workes of Iudas, before his tresonable defection, from Christ Iesus, which was but fewe daies before his death, that he had bene y^e reprobate. And what serueth this for your purpose?To the 6 howe can ye hereby proue, that we are the sonnes of darkenes, that we take the most shameful men by the hand, flattering them so, that they can not returne from their wickednes, and so by our doctrine giuegive occasion of sinne to y^e people, declaring our selues thereby, not to besent of God, &c.

Are ye able to proue, that we teache the people, not to conuert from their sinnes, and wicked imaginations, to to y^e last houre of their departure? do we promise to all theues and murtherers the same grace and fauor, y^t Dauid, Peter, and this thief founde? I trust thy own cōscience knoweth the contrarie.To the 7 Permit or suffer we (be they neuer so hie) manifest offenders to liue amōgest vsus, after their owne appetites? And yet ashamest thou not impudently thus to writ: But such lippes such letouse such disciples such masters for your chief Appollos be persecuters, on whom the blood of Seruetus crieth a vengeance, So doeth the blood of others mo, whome I could name. But for asmuch as God hath partely alredie reuenged their blood and serued some of their persecuters with the same measure where with they measured to others I wil make no mēcion of them at this time.

Blessed be God the father of our Lord Iesus Christ who so reueleth the things, that lie in secret, that hypocrites p. 206at length, how soeuer they dissemble for a time are compelled to notifie, & bewray them selues. Before to some it might hauehave appeared, that the zeale of gods glorie, the louelove of vertue, the hatered of vice, and the saluation of the people, whom by vsus, ye iudged to be blinded and deceiued, had caried you hedlonges into such vehemēcie (as ye be mē zelous & feruent) y^t no kynd of accusation was thoght by you sufficēit, to make vsus odious, vntounto y^e people, lies against vsus imagined, were not onelyonly tolerable, but also laudable & holie, scriptures▪ by you willingly, and wittingly corrupted, did serue to defend gods iustice, and his glorie, w^t we by our doctrine oppugne & improue. But these your last wordes do bewrey the mater, that in what soeuer faces you lift trāsforme your selues, your grief wil appere to procede from another fountaine,This impr…ueth the opinion of that sect that say that they for their pure lyfe are heard w…n soeuer they praye. then from any of these which ye pretende, and I before hauehave rehearsed.

O the death of Seruetus your deare brother for whose deliuerāce your chāpion Castalio solēnely did praie, with whom, if once ye coulde hauehave spoken, that kingdome, which ye hope for, had begonne to be enlarged, his blood I saie, with the blood of others, I thinke ye meane of your prophetesse Ione of kent, do crie a vengeance in your eares, & heartes, that none other cause do you se of y^e shedding of y^e blood of those most cōstāt martyres of Christ Iesus, Thomas Crammer, Nicholas Redley Hugh latimer, Iohn Hooper, Iohn Rogers, Iohn Bradfurth, and of others mo, But that God hathe partly reuenged their blood,The aduersarie iustifieth the cruell murthering of Thom. Crāmer Nicolas Ridley, &c▪ y^t is of your great prophet and prophetesse, vponupon their persecuters, and hath serued thē with the same measure, with the which they serued others, I appeale to the iudgement, of all those that fear God, what is thy iudgement, and the iudgement of thy faction, of that glorious Gospel of Christ Iesus, which of late, hath bene suppressed in Englod, what is thy iudgement of those most valiāt soldiars and most happie martyres of Christ Iesus, vponupon whom, ô blasphemous p. 207mouth thou saiest, God hathe taken vengeance, which is an horrible blasphemie in the eares of all the godlie, I wil not now somuch labor to confute by thy pen, as that my ful purpose is to lay the same to thy charge if I shal apprehend the in any comon welth where iustice against blesphemers may be ministred, as gods word requireth. And hereof I giuegive the warning, lest that after thou shalt complein, that vnderunder the cloke of friendship, I hauehave deceiued the. Thy manifest defection from God, and this thy open blasphemie, spoken against his eternall trueth and against such as most constantly did suffer, for testimonie of the same, hauehave so broken and desolued all familiaritie, which hathe bene betwext vsus, that althogh thou were my natural brother I durst not conceale thy iniquitie, in this case.

But now to the mater. I hauehave before proued you malicious, and vennemous liers, & therefor vnworthie to bear testimonie against vsus. Now resteth to be proued, that ye are blasphemers of God, and persones defamed▪ Salomon affirmeth, that,Pro. 17Prov 17 he that iustifieth the wicked and he that condemneth the innocent, are alike abomible before God. Which sentence is not to be vnderstād of iudges onelie, but is to be referred to euerie man: for of euerie one doth God require, that he hate, and in his heart and mouth condemne, that which God him self hath cōdemned: and also that he allow, and iustifie, that which God pronoūceth iust, lawfull, and holie. And if the contrarie be founde euen in a multitude, God doth not onelie punishe the chief offenders, but also vponupon their fauorers, mainteiners, and iustifiers, doth he comonly powre the same plagues and vengeance. And hereof is that rare,Num. 16Num 16 and fearefull punishment taken vponupon Dathan and Abiram, sufficient proofe, for they ioyned with Corah, were the authors of the conspiracie raised against Moises and Aaron. But did they alone sustein the vēgeance? No but their housholds, children, wyues, tentes, and substance in the same conteined, did the p. 208earth in a moment deuore, and swallow vp. And why? because they did iustifie the cause of those wicked, and in so far in as in them lay did maintein the same. No man I trust will deny, but that he who killeth an innocēt mā, is a murtherer, althogh it be vnderunder the cloke of iustice. But that he, who hauing lawfull auctoritie to kill, and yet suffereth the murtherer to liue, is a murtherer, in this perchance som men may doubt. But if the law of God be diligently searched, this doubt shall easely be resolued. For it will witnes, that no les oght the murtherer, the blasphemer, and such other to suffer the death, then that the meke and the fearer of God should be defended. And also that such as maintein and defend the one, are no les criminal before God, then those that oppresse the others. One example I will adduce for all, God gaue in to the handes of Achab,1. King, 23. Benhadad king of Syria, who was great enemie to Israel, whom he vponupon certen cōditions of amitie sent home to his countrie. But what sentence was prononunced aginst Achab? Thus saieth y^• eternall, becaus thow hast let go oute of thy handes a man, whom I appointed to die, thy soule (that is thy lief, shalbe in the place of his life, and thy people in y^• place of his people. Now to you iustifiers of Seruetus. Seruetus was an abominable blasphemer against God,An argument that proueth th… aduersaries to be like blasphemers as was Seruetus. and you are iustifiers of Seruetus. Therefor ye are blasphemers before God, like abominable as he was. The maior I intend shortly to proue, so far as shalbe sufficiēt at this tyme. The minor ye do not denie for some by appologies, som by bookes, and all by your tōgues, do iustifie his cause, and the conclusion is infallibly gathered of the former wordes of the holie Gost.

Ye will not easely admitt that Seruetus be conuicted of blasphemie. for if so be, ye must be cōpelled to confesse (except that ye will refuse God) that the sentence of death executed against him, was not crueltie, nether yet that the iudges, who iustly pronounced that sentence, were murtherers nor persecuters: but that this death p. 209was th… execution of gods iudgement, and they the true and faithfull seruantes of God, who when no other remedie was foūde, did take away iniquitie from amongest them. That God hath appointed death by his law without merciemercy to be executed vponupon the blasphemers, is euident, by that which is written Leuiticus 24.Leu. 24.Lev 24 But what blasphemie is, may some perchance dout. If righteously we shal consider & wey the scriptures, we shal fynd y^t to speak basphemie or to blaspheme God, is not onelyonly to denie, that there is a God, but that also it is, lightly to esteme the power of the eternal God, to hauehave, or to sparse abrode, of his maiestie such opinions as may make his God head to be douted of. To depart frō y^e true honoring, 3& religion of God, to the imagination of mans inuentions. Obstinatly to maintein, and defend doctrine 4& diabolicall opinions, plainely repugning to Gods trueth. To iudge those thinges, which God iudgeth 5necessarie for our saluation, not to be necessarie. And finaly 6to persecute the trueth of God, and the membres of Christes bodie.

Of the first and second sort, both was Sennacherib, and proud Rabsases, who comparing God with the Idoles of the Gentiles, did not onelyonly lightly esteme his godly power, but also so, far as in thē was, studied to take out of the heartes of the Israelites, all right and perfect opinion of God. At whom the Prophet in the person of God, demandeth this questiō, whom hast y^u blasphemed?

Of the third sort were bothe Israél and Iuda, declining to idolatrie against Gods expresse commandmēt whom the Prophetes so often do affirme to blaspheme the holy one of Israel. Because, saieth Isaiah they hauehave repudiated, the Lawe of the Lord of hostes, and the worde of the holie one of Israel, contumeliously hauehave they blasphemed. And Ezechiel, after that he hath most sharply rebuked the Israelites for their idolatrie, he addeth: yet in this your fathers hauehave blasphemed me, thogh they had before grieuously transgressed against me for p. 210when I had broght them into the land, for the which … lifted vp my hād to giuegive it thē, they sawe eueryevery hie hill and all the thicke trees, and they offered there their sacrifices, and there they presented their offering, &c.

Of the fourth sort were Hymeneus, and Alexander, whom Paul gaue to the deuil, that they shoulde learne not to blaspheme,…

Of the …ift sort, were the multitude of the Iewes, who iudged, and to this day do iudge the death of Christ Iesus, his blessed ordinance, the publike preaching of his Euangil, and the administration of his Sacrements, to be nothing necessarie to our saluation.

And of the last, doeth not Paul denie him self, to hauehave bene a blasphemer,1. … and a persecuter before his cō uersion.

Now, if I shal plainely proue the most parte, yea all these (except, ye will say, he shed no mans blood) to hauehave bene in your great prophete Seruet …, yea yet to be in you all of the Anabaptisticall sort, hauehave I not sufficiently proued both him, and you blasphemers?

Albeit I be more nere of his, and your counsel, thē any of you doeth knowe or suspect, yet wil I not vtter, at this present, all that I can, but wil abide till such oportunitie, as God shal offer vntounto me, to notifie his, and your poison to the Church of God, that of the same, the godlie may be ware.

For this present, I say first, that Seruetus, whom you iustifie, did maintein, and by worde and writing, dispersed, abrode wicked, and most deuilishe opinions of God, which might not onelyonly make his Godhead to be dispised, but also called in doubt, and question. He iudged those things nothing necessarie to saluation, w^c Christ hathe commanded and ordeined. And last, that impugning the true religiō,The blasphem…us …rrors of Serue …. he did most obstinatly maintein his diabolical erros, & did resist the plaine trueth to y^e death. His erroneous opiniōs of God & of his eternal Godhead were these. Whosoeuer beleueth any triniti… p. 221in the essence of God, hath not y^e perfect God, but goddes imagined, and elusion of deuils.

That Christ is the Sonne of God, onelyonly in so far as 2he is be gotten of God, in the wombe of the virgin, and that not onelyonly by the power of the holy Spirit, but because that God begat him of his owne substance.

That y^e worde of God descending from the heauen,These be the detestable errors o… Ioha… of Ken…. is now the flesh of Christ, so y^t the flesh of Christ, is from the heauen▪ further that y^• bodie of Christ is the bodie of the Godhead, the flesh of God, godlie, and heauenlie as it that is begotten of the substance of God.

That the soule of Christ is God, and that the flesh 4of Christ is God, and that aswel the flesh as the soule were in the verie substance of the Godhead from all eternitie. That God is the father of the holie Gost. 5That Christ hauing the participation of the Godhead 6or of God, and participacion of man, may not be called a creature, but one that doth participat with creatures.

As the worde descended into the flesh of Christ,The adu…rs…ri… looke also …o be Christes at l… ̄gth. so did the holie Gost descend in to the soules of the Apostles.

That Christ so long as he was conuersant in the flesh receaued not the new spirit, which he was to receaue after his resurrection.

That in all men from the beginning, is ingrafted 9the spirit of the Godhead, euen by the breath of God,& 10yet may the spirit, by the which we be illuminated,The pr… s…n… err…r of the Anabaptistes

That the substanciall Godhead is in all creatures. That the soule of man, althogh it be not God, it is made God by the spirit, which is God him self.

That the soule is made mortall by sinne, euen as 11the flesh is mortal, not that the soule returneth to nothīg, as nether doth the flesh, but that it dyeth, whē that it is depriued of liuelie actions. And that it is holden 12in hel languishing, as that it should neuer after liue p. 212but these that be regenerated hauehave another soule, then that they had before: because of the substance which is renewed, & for the godhead which is ioyned.

13That a like it is to baptise an infant as to baptise a… asse or a stone,

14That there is no mortale sinne committed, before the age of twentie yeares.

These I hauehave thoght sufficient to produce at this present, to let the reader vnderstand, that it is not without cause, that I say, that Seruetus, whom ye iustifie is a blasphemer. I hauehave omitted things more horrible, & grieuous, to auoid the offence of godlie readers. which sodā ly, I am not minded to manifest, except y^t I shal vnderstād that your vennemous tongues be not stayed by these. I appeale to the cōsciēce of Castalio him self, if in euerie one of these former propositions, which concerne y^e Godhead, there be not conteined horrible blasphemie. For what is more blasphemous, then to affirme, that such as beleue in the Godhead, three distinct persons, hauehave no true God, but the illusion of the deuilles. That Christ Iesus, is not the eternal son, of the eternal father, that there is no distinction betwext the father and the Sonne, but in imagination onelyonly. That Christ hath no participation of mans nature, but that his flesh is from heauen, yea that it is the flesh of the Godhead. That in Stockes, stones and all creatures, is the substantiall Godhead. If these (I sa…e) be not blasphemies worthie of ten thousand deathes, especially being obstinatly mainteined against all holsom admonition? let all those that feare God iudge: yea euen you your selues, how furious that euer ye be, iudge in the mater, euē as ye wil answer before the throne of y^e Lord Iesus. That cōtempteously he spake of baptising of the childrē, of y^e publyke preaching of the Euangill, and of the administration of the Lordes supper, that hauehave you common w^t him. for this is your glorie, and persuasion to all your scolers, that these things be nothing necessarie to saluation, yea p. 213most streitly ye inhibit all of your sect to frequent any cōgregatiō, but your own. And whether this be blasphemie of your parte, or not, to affirme those thīgs nothīg necessarie, which Christ Iesus hath established, and commanded to be vsed in remembrance of him, to his againe comming, I am content that iudgement be referred euen to those that be most indifferent betwext vsus and you.

To supersede the rest of your blasphemies I return to your booke, because that after I purpose to speake of your holie conuersation, and of the great perfection, y^t is founde in you.To tha… which resteth in the 7

Ye accuse vsus that we hauehave written bookes in a perpetuall memorie, of our crueltie, affirming it to be lawful to put to death such as dissent from vsus in religion. Notwith standing, that some of vsus were of an other mynd before they came to auctoritie▪ and further that we hauehave giuen the sworde in to the hādes of bloodie tyrannes.

Trew it is that bookes are written, bothe by you & by vsus. for your master Bellius affirmeth, that lawfull it is not, to the ciuil magistrat, to vse the sworde against heretikes. To whome that godlie learned mā Theodorus Beza hath answered. In which if you or your master thinke not your selues fully answered, ye may put pen to the paper, when you list, looking to receaue answer with conuenient expidicion. Iohn Caluin hath besides committed to writing, the examination of Seruetus, and the cause of his miserable death, which bookes albeit to you, they be a perpetual memorie of crueltie, yet I hauehave good hope, that to our posteritie, they shalbe profitable (as now to vsus, be the godlie labors of those, that before vsus hauehave foghten the same battel against the obstinate heretikes) And further seing bothe you, and we, must abyde the sentence of one iudge, we can not greatlye feare the preiudice of your faction.

p. 214Where ye aske if these be y^e shepe, which Christ sent furth in the middes of wolues. And if the shepe can per secute the wolues,To the 6 question answered by a question. and I demand for answer whether Moses was a shepe or a wolf, & wether that fearefull slaughter executed vponupon idolaters without respect of persons was not as great a persecution, as the burning of Seruetus, and Ioan of kent. To me it appereth greater. for to them was granted no place of repentance, no admonition was giuen vntounto them, but with out further delay or question,Le…. 32 was the brother commanded to kill the brother, yea the father not to spare the sonne. I think verely that if iudgement shoulde be referred vntounto you, y^t that then shoulde Moises and the tribe of Leui be iudged wolues, sent to d…uore innocent shepe. But because we knowe what God hath allowed, we y^e les feare y^e iudgemēt of man. If ye claime any priuiledge b… the cōming of the Lord Iesus, him self wil answer that he is not come to break nor destroy the Law of his heauēlie father.

Where further ye ask if Abel did kill Cayn or Dauid Saul, or he which is born of the spirit, did kill him which is borne of the flesh? I answer, if your question be of Abel, Dauid and Isaak, in their proper persons, that none of them did kill any of these fore named. But if thereof ye inferre no more, is it law…ul for any of gods elect,How anabaptist …sabuse the name of cō science. to kill any man, for his conscience sake. I answer, that if vnderunder the name of conscience ye include what soeuer semeth good in your owne eyes, that then ye affirme a great absurditie, manifestly repugning aswel to gods lawe, as to the examples of those, whom God hath hieghly praised, in his holie Scriptures. But because cō tinually ye claime to your conscience, to remoue from you that vaine couerture. I ask if the murtherer, adulterer, or any other malefactor, shoulde be exempted from punishmēt of y^e law, althogh he alledge, that he did all thīg of cōsciēce? I trust ye wil cōfesse, that he oght to be mocked, y^t wil claime the patrocinie of cōscience, when that he doth plainely offend against gods wil reueled. p. 215And why will ye not grant asmuch in this mater, which now standeth in contrauersie? because (say you) externall crimes hauehave no affinitie with maters of religion. for y^e conscience of euerie man is not a like persuaded in y^e seruice and honoring of God,Shifting of anabaptistes. nether yet in such cō trouersies as gods worde hath not plainely decided. but I ask if that be a iust excuse, why pernicious errors shall be obstinatly defended, ether yet that gods established religion shall be contempteously dispised? To make y^e mater more plaine, Israel and Iudah were not bothe of one minde, in the honoring of God, after y^t the tenne Tribes departed frō the housholde of Dauid, yea Iuda in the self was often corrupted, with pestilent idolatrie. in somuch that the fathers did offer their children to Moloch. which I am assured they did not without some zeale, w^c they thoght tobe good cōscience. But not withstanding those controuersies, diuers opiniōs, and forged consciences at their own appetites, Helias did kill the priestes of Baal.A…swe… to th… shifting & was… he borne I pray you of y^e flesh? or was he not rather regenerated by gods holie spirit? Io…ias did kill all y^e priestes of the hie places, & did burne mēs bones vpō their altars, and was he I besech you brother to Cayn,2. King 2….2 Kgs 2 or rather fellow heire of the Kingdom promised with Abel. But that he was gods most faithful King, after Dauid, I trust ye wil not denie, except that ye wil say as before, boldly ye hauehave affirmed of other, that God reuenged blood with blood, in that he suffered him to fal in battel. But y^e Spirit of God speaking in the prophet Ieremie, is more mylde of iudgement, for he absolueth him, and doeth affirme that he was taken away for… the sinnes of the people. Cōsider these things, and conuict vsus, if ye can by scriptures.

We say the man is not persecuted, for his conscience, that declining from God, blaspheming his Maiestie, and cōtemning his religion obstinatly defendeth erroneous & fals doctrine. This mā I say lawfully …onuicted, if he suffer the death, pronounced by a lawful p. 216Magistrate, is not persecuted (as in y^• name of Seruetus ye furiously complein). but he su…ereth punishement according to gods cōmandement pronounced in Deutronomie, the XIII. chapiter.D…. 13.

To put end to these your calumnies for this time, two things I wolde require of you.To t…e. 6 First, that thus foolishly ye abuse not the name of conscience,Consci… ce must …estayed vpō god… word…. which you say constreineth you to write, to the ende that ye might awake vsus out of our dreames. Conscience for assurance of the self, in weldoing, must hauehave a testimonie of gods plaine wil reueled. which ye shal not fynd to be your assurance, that so odiously ye may accuse vsus of those crimes, whereof ye be neuer able to conuict vsus.

The second is, that by plaine scriptures, and sollid reasons ye studie to confute our doctrine, and not by raging wordes spoken as it were, by men in a frennesie. you shal neuer be able to proue, ether that our doctrine is poysoned, ether yet that we drawe the people to a secure ydle, and careles lief. Blessed be God y^e father of our Lord Iesus Christ who of his mere merciemercy hath caused our doctrine, somwhat to fructifie, our good hope is, that with vsus, and his afflicted Church, he wil continue his father lie fauor, in such sorte, that from tyme to tyme, he wil leaue documentes, to y^• aeges following, y^t his heauēly doctrine is not sent in vaine. To him be glorie foreuer. Now to y^t that followeth in your booke.