An Answer to Blasphemous Cavillations by an Anabaptist, Section 8
THE ADVERSARIE.
The scripture witnesseth that we did fall in Adam.The eight section. for damnation came of one sinne vntounto condemnation: then did we all stand afore in Adam, for none falleth but he that standeth. If we did all stand then were we all predestinate to lief for as our fall here is to damnation and death, so is our standing vntounto saluation and lief. And to confirme this we hauehave many testimonies in the word, which proue vsus to be elected chosen, and predestinat to lief afore the fall, but none that proue any man to be abiected, cast away, damned, and reprobate afore sinne by which death entred into the world. Paul to the Ephesians saieth.Ephes. 1. God did choose vsus in Christe before the foundations of the world were laid, and ordeined vsus before through him to be heires vntounto him self, and were t…erunto predestinat. I pray you shew me any testimonie of the scripture which so manifestly proueth that God hath reprobate any before the foundations of the world. God hath no respect of persons.Psal. 49. For he calleth the world from the rising vp of the son vntounto the going downe of the same.Iob. 34. he made bothe small and great and careth for bothe a like for they be all the work of his handes.4. Esdr. 8 And Esdras saieth, it was not gods will that man should com to nought. but he prepared lief for them. The holie Gost saieth that God hath not made death neither hath he pleasure in the destruction of the liuing. for he created all things that they might hauehave their being, yea all the people of the earth hath he made that they should hauehave helthe and their should be no destruction in them and that the kingdom of hell should not be vponupon earth.Sapient. 2 what can be more plainely and more directly spoken against this error? In an other place saieth the holie Gost: God created man to be vndestroyed: and agane God ordeined man that he should order the world according to equitie and righteousnes,Sapien. 9 and execute iudgement with a true hearte, doeth God ordein man to rule the world according to righteousnes whom he reprobated? Do men gather grapes (as Christ saieth) of thornes and figges of thistles? euen so euerie good tree bringeth furthe good fruites. But a corrupt tree bringeth furth euill fruite, a good tree can not bring furth badd fruit, neither can a badd tre bring furth good fruite. Matth. 7. Either make the tre good, and the fruite good,Matth. 12 orels the tre euill and his fruite euill. Either grant man at his creation to be righteous and good, and then I think ye will abhorre to say that God afore the foundations of the world did reprobate his good and righteous creature, orels grant him at his creation to be an euill and vnrighteous creature. Could then righteous iudgement com of such an vnrighteous tree? further if man at his creation was an euill things then was he not the creature of God. For God sawe al that he had made, and they were verie good, if man at his creation or afore was reprobate, and ordeined vntounto death, then was man giltie afore the transgressiō: for God damned none but such as be gyltie. If he was giltie afore his transgression then was he a sinner being yet innocent and iust. afore he euer consenteth or committed sinne. And so consequently of this error, I may inferre many no such absurdities as should offend any faithfull mannes eares.
ANSWER.
As no man of hole iudgement did euer denie that in Adam we did fall, so I think you ād your sect set a part there hath ben none that euer did affirme that in Adam we were predestinat to lief euerlasting. True it is yt we stood in Adam, created in his loynes, but I suppose that ye will not hold that the children had greater priuiledge then had the father. Adam did not so stand, but that he was subiect to the law, the transgression where of made him dettour to death. To speake the mater more plainely, Adam did so stand that he might (and did) fall as the euent declared. ād were his children so elect in him that they could not fall: so ye appere to conclude. For thus ye reason: if we did all stand then were we all predestinate to lief, for as our fall here is to damnation and death, so is our stāding vntounto saluatiō and lief. Assuredly these reasons appear meruelous, strāge to me, and principally that which ye bring furth of falling and standing: for it hath in the self plain contradiction. for if we fell in Adam to death, how can we stand in him now vntounto lief. If you had said as that our fall was to damnation and death, so should our standing hauehave ben to saluatiō and lief, ye might hauehave had som probabilitie. For your error had onelyonly stand in this,The ground of the Anabaptistes error. that ye do not con…ider that Adam was not created to stand for euer in him self▪ and much les his posteritie in him. But when ye say as our fall is to death, so is or standing vntounto lief, you plainely speak, what so euer ye think, that yet either in Adā, either in our selues we both fall and stand. But this do we vtterly abhorre, for we fear not plainely to confesse that we hauehave no assurance either of standing either yet of lief but in Christ Iesus alone in whō we be ingrafted, and with out whō we cā do nothing.An argument … prou…th that in Adam we could not stand In few wordes to repete the answer of your former obiectiō, In Adā did no mā stand otherwise thē he did. But he did stād wt cōdition to fall and yt euē to death: Therefor in Adā did none stād to lief. The commō sense of mā will approue ye first part of this my argumēt. for who cā think that any discēding of Adam by his meanes could hauehave greater libertie thē he hī self had? And the euēt ād that which folowed declareth the veritie of the second part. For not onelie vponupon Adam saieth the Apostle cam death. But euē from him descended death vntounto all. How then could any stand in him to lief? Let reasonable men consider.
To proue that all were predestinat and chosen in Adā before the foūdatiōs of the world were laid,Answer to the scriptures shamefully abused by the aduersaries. ye brīg furth the testimony of Paul written in the first chap. to the Ephesians, which we before hauehave entreated, and therefor here I onelyonly will open your falshed. Wonder it is that shame should be so far past you: that where the holie Gost plainely affirmeth, that we were elected and; chosen in Christe Iesus before; the foundations of the world were laid, that this election ye should affirm to be made in Adam. If you obiect that you specifie not Adā: I answer that is all a like: for of your former argumentes it easely may be espied whom ye vnderstand. For when thus ye reason we did all stand in Adam, erg… we were all predestinat to lief, what is he that clearly may not perceaue that your meaning is, that we were all predestinat to lief in Adam. For els you had said nothing to proue your own purpose. For we affirm that we were elected before the foundatiō of the world was laid. But the controuersie standeth, in whom. We affirme and most cōstantly beleue, that in Christe Iesus the eternall Sonne of the eternall Father, were we elected before all tymes. This ye can not abyde and therefor ye seke all meanes to obscure the glorie of him to whō the Father hath geuen all power in heauen and in earth: somtymes ye say (as now I hauehave declared) that this election was made in Adame: But whill that this will not serue you, ye run to an other shift alledging that the Apostle speaketh here of a generall election of the hole world, and a not of any certen election which should abyd for euer, and so in shifting from one danger ye fall into another as after in examining of that your vain reason more euidently shall appere.
Ye instantly require that we will shew any testimonie of the scripture that hath reprobate any before the foū dations of the world. If it be the pleasure of God to giuegive vntounto you the spirite of wisdom and of reuelation by the knowledge of hī self, that the eies of your mynd may be illuminated that ye may know what is the hope to the which he hath called you, and how rich is the glorie of that inheritance, which he hath prepared for his saintes, ye shall require no place more plaine, nor more euident then the same, which most ignorantly, orels most maliciously ye do abuse, for if there be any differēce betwext the saintes, the faithfull, that be blessed with all spirituall benedictiō, betwext those (I say) yt were elected in Christe Iesus before all tymes, that in tyme be called, and by the power of the holie spirite do giuegive obediēce to the caller, and so are made citizens with the saintes and houshold of God, as they that are builded vponupon the foundation of the Prophetes ād Apostles: if any differēce (I say) be betwext these former, and these in whom the prince of this world doeth worke all filthynes and rebelliō, whom he holdeth captiue at his pleasure, who can not repent their detestable liues, and therefor are reputed strangears from the common welth of Israel. And further if ye will beleue Christ Iesus affirming and reioising that it pleased his Father to hyde the secretes of his kingdome from the prudent and wife, and to reuele the same to litle ones,Matt. 11. ād that becaus it was his pleasure: I trust ye shall confesse that those scriptures be plaine ynough to proue that as some were elected before the foūdatiō of the world was laid, so likewies were there others reprobated, as the finall end of bothe doeth witnes: But how ye wrestle against this argumēt we shall after heare: ād how plainely I hauehave proued sō to be elected and others to be reprobated, reade before ād iudge with indifferēcie. If ye will cōclude that God hath no certen election, neither yet that he hath reprobated any, becaus that he hath no respect of persones, and becaus he calleth the world from the rising vp of the son to the going doune of the same, becaus he made both small and great, and careth (as ye falsly alledge) for bothe a like, your affirmatiō may well be bolde, but I think, that your probation shalbe sclender. But first I must except against you, as against fals witnes. for you alledge more vponupon Elihu thē in the book of IobThe aduersarie wrasteth the scripture in Iob. he affirmeth. For he saieth not that God careth for all a like. But saieth that his eies are vponupon the waies of man, and that he doeth se all his goinges. And that neither you, neither any other shall hauehave occasion to complain of me, that vniustly I accuse you, of falsifying the plain text, I will recite bothe the purpose and the wordes: Iob in vehemēcie of disputation against his thre frendes, who constantly did affirm that God prouoked, by his sinnes, had powred furth those sodane and strange plagues vponupon him: Iob I say in refelling this their accusation, and in confuting their reasons, did enter into the secretes of gods inscrutable iudgementes further thē it became any creature to do: and did seme to burdē God with iniustice in defending his own innocētie. At which reasons Elihu offended after that the other three were put to silēce takīg vpō him to reproue Iob affirmeth that the wisdom, the power, the iustice and the iudgementes of God were incomprehensible, that God could do nothing vniustly how that euer it appered to mannes iudgement, and amongest other thinges he saieth: wilt thou say vntounto a king,Iob. 34. thou art wicked, or vntounto princes, ye are vngodlie. How muche les to him that accepteth not the persons of Princes and regardeth not the riche more then the poore? For they be all the worke of his handes? They shall dye sodenly, and the people shalbe trobled at midnight, and they shall passe furth and take away the mightie withoute hand, for his eies are vponupon the wayes of man and he seeth al his goings. Thus hauehave I noted partly yt none shall think that these wordes may seme to fauor your error, and partly that your vntruethe in wrasting such places may more manifestly appere. Ignorance of the tongues may be some caus in you, but in some of you I can manifestly proue that malice blindeth knowledge, and compelleth you to speake and write against your vnderstanding. God touche your heartes with true repentance and giuegive you his holie spirit with greater reuerence to intreat his scriptures. But now to the scriptures that ye alledge (God say you) hath no respect of persōs.Act. 10. Ergo wil ye cōclude, he hath no election. Your conclusion is fals, and my reason is, becaus that gods fre election depēdeth not vponupon the persones of men, but vponupon his own promes and good will▪ But to make this mater more sensible: I wil make an argumēt directly against yours.An argument directly against the aduersaries argument. God respecteth not the persons of men. But yet amongest men is found great diuersitie bothe in vertue ād in vice. Therefor there must be som cause from whence this diuersitie procedeth. Of the first part I know ye doute not, and the secōd parte is confirmed by common experience and by euidēt scriptures. for how diuerse be the inclinatiōs of mē, none cā be ignorāt, except such as do not obserue the same. Such as attribute the caus of such diuersitie to the sterres and to the influenceInfluence of the sterres. of the Planetes are more then vaine: educationEducatiō. and vp bringing doeth somwhat bow nature in that case: but neither of bothe is the cause of such diuersitie: for how many hauehave bene norished in vertue togither, and yet hauehave after fallen to moste horrible vices, and in the same perished? And contrarie wies how many hauehave bene wickedly broght vp, and yet by grace atteined to an holie conuersation. If the cause of this diuersitie (I say) shal be inquired and soght, it shall not be found in nature. for thereby were and are we all borne the sonnes of wraith: if in education and vp bringing, we se how oftē that faileth. The cause thereof thē must be of necessitie without man. To make the mater yet more plaine by an exēple, Paule preached Christ Iesus, to be the onelyonly Sauior of the world both amongest the Iewes and gentiles, to som his preaching was the sauour of lief, and to others it was the sauour of death. from whence commeth this diuersitie? from the obedience, will, and faith of the one, say you. and frome the stubborne inobedience, and infidelitie of the other: you say somewhat, but not all. for true it is that faith and an obedient will, is that which we call Causam propinquam, that is the next cause to our apprehension: but what is the cause that the will of one is obedient, and the will of the other stubborne, that the one doeth beleue and the other doeth blaspheme: How so euerye do shift,The cause is not in nature of our faethfull obediē ce. the holie Gost in many places plainely affirmeth the cause not to be in nature nor yet to procede of man, nor of his fre will, but to be the fre grace of the caller, as Christ Iesus doeth witnes: None can com vntounto me excepte my Father draw him: No mā can se the kingdom of God except he be borne againe, and that neither of blood neither of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. who toucheth and openeth the heartes of so many as he hath ordeined to lief, to aduerte and beleue the thinges that be truely preached: As those that be the shepe of Christe Iesus, who heare his voice and know the same. These and many places mo, do most plainely declare,What is the cause that some beleue and some remayn vnfaithfull. what is the cause that some beleue and others beleue not: to witt, that som are born of God, and som are left in nature, som are shepe, & som are goates. the heartes of som are touched and opened by the finger and Spirit of God, as it was said to Peter: flesh and bloode hath not reueled this vntounto the, but my Father which is in the heauen, and the heartes of others left in their own blindnes and hardnes. If ye demand how is it then, that God respecteth not the person of man? I answer if ye did vnderstād a right what is mēt by acceptation of persons, or what it is to respect persons ye should not doute in this behalf.
Acceptatiō of persons is when an vnworthie person is preferred to a worthie,How God respecteth not persōs. either by corrupt affection of those that do preferre him, either yet for some qualitie or externall beautie that appereth in man. As if to the office of a king or of a bushope, should one be elected, that neither hath godlynes, knowledge, wisdom, nor yet the spirit of gouernement, because he is riche, noble of bloode, fare and lustie: and the persons hauing giftes much more excellent should be contemned: this is called acceptation of persons.1. Sa. 16. As Samuel seing Eliab and considering his beautie, and stature doeth boldly pronounce in his own heart, assuredly before the Lord, this is his anoīted. Such acceptation of persons is not with God. for neither looketh he to blood, riches, nobilitie, vertue, strength nor beautie temporall in his eternall election, but onelyonly to his own good will, and eternall purpose by the which he hath elected vsus in Christe Iesus. If ye shall consider the same place depely ye shall find that none within the hole scriptures of God more confuteth your error then it doeth. For as God respecteth not the personThat God hath not respect of persons most euidently cō futeth the error of the aduersaries of gods predestination. of mā, so respecteth he nothing, that is or can be within man, as the chief cause of his election. For what can God forese, consider or know to be in man that good is which floweth not from his fre merciemercy and goodnes, as it is written: we are not sufficient of our selues to think any thing that good is but all our sufficiencie is of God, who worketh in vsus bothe to will and performe. Then if all vertue what so euer be in vsus, be the work of God, can the work folowing, be the cause of gods eternall purpose? If the cause and the effectesThe cause and effect are diuerse. proceding of the same, be things diuerse, then are our vertues and fruites not the cause of gods election, but are the effect and fruit which of the same procede, and spring as the Apostle doeth witnes saing: God hath chosen vsus that we should be holie, ād without blame And Christ Iesus: saieth you hauehave not chosen me but I hauehave chosen you, and hauehave appointed you to go, and to bring furth fruite. This I am compelled oft to repete, becaus in it most shamefully ye erre, arrogating to your seluses that which is proper to gods onelyonly merciemercy and fre grace. If you vnderstand this former place of scripture which affirmeth that God hath no respect of persons as your book doeth witnes, to witt, that God careth a like for all, that he no more loueth the one, thē the other, except that it be for their obedience, the hole scripture of God doeth witnes against you. Was the louelove of God no greater to Abraham and to his posteritie, then it was to the rest of the nations? Moises and Dauid do witnesse the contrarie: Saying: he hath not done so to any nation, and his iudgemēts he hath not shewed to them,D…ut. 7. onelyonly the, hath he chosen of all nations and people, that be vponupon the face of the earth, that thow shouldest be vntounto him a peculiar people. And what was the cause of this their dignitie and prerogatiue before we hauehave declared, to witt, no vertue, no obedience, no good qualitie that was in them, but onelyonly his fre louelove, fre grace, and vndeserued merciemercy, as he hī self doeth plainely affirme?Rm. 9. I will hauehave merciemercy vponupon whom I will hauehave merciemercy, and saint Paule: it is neither of the willer, neither yet of the runner, but of God that sheweth merciemercy to such as pleaseth him. And thus I say you can not iustly nor rihtly conclude, that God hath neither chosen nor reprobated any man, becaus he hath no respect of persons. for as before I hauehave said, his eternall election dependeth neither vponupon man, neither yet vponupon any thing that is within mā,Neither was nor is in vsus, any thing whereby we should deserue to be elected but is purposed in him self, and established in Christ Iesus, in whom we are elected, becaus that in our selues there neither was neither yet could be any worthines, which could merite or deserue such honour and dignitie. And so God respecteth not the persons of men, their vertues, nor qualities in their election, but finding them all equall in creation, and corruption maketh difference betwext them, according to his eternall purpose, respecting Christ Iesus and not their merites. How that euer the prowde and vngodlie storme at this, I nothing doute, but the children of God do thereof receaue moste singular consolation as that it is the chefest cause why that without all trembling and feare, they stoupe before his Maiestie, and giuing thankes for these inestimable benefits do craue of his merciemercy such a puretie of lief as becometh his children.
To your scriptures which ye alledge from the book of wisdom and frome Esdras (his fourth booke),The bookes called Apocryphes. I will shortly answere. That albeit ye will ten thousand tymes deck ād decore them with the title of the holie Gost, I wil not the more creditt them. Not that I deny but that in them there be thinges conteined, profitable to edification, but if that therefore ye will vponupon any place written within them, conclude a doctrine contrarie to the rest of the canonicall scriptures, I will answer with the ancient writers, that they were not written, that vponupon them should our faith be established. Lett thē serue, if so please you to exhortation, but for confirmation of any doctrine shall they neuer serue vntounto me. Neither yet this do I say, that I do think any of these places (rightly vnderstand) to make any thing for your purpose, but that I will by gods grace, giuegive euer that reuerence vntounto the veritie of God,Reu…rēce vntounto gods holie worde. that the voices of men shall not with me be cōparable vntounto it.
It may be greatlie suspected what som men now a daies do meā to ascribe that to y• holie Gost which the authors them selues did onelyonly ascribe to their own diligence and trauelle, and were also compelled to ask perdon of the readers that they could not atteine, no not euen to the proprietie of the tōgue in the which they did write.Reade the prologue of Ecclesiasticus and the end of the last chap. of the second booke of Machab. Vseth the holie Gost I pray you whose power lowseth the tongues of the dombe, in that maner to be suppliāt vntounto mē, and for his imperfection to begge pardon at their handes? Consider, and impute nothing vponupon the holie Gost, which becometh not the Maiestie of God. but lest that ye should complain that yet your scriptures are not resolued, I will giuegive you a generall answer to all, which is this. That neither the booke of wisdom, neither yet Ecclesiasticus, neither yet Esdras in these places that be alledged do intreat any thing of election, or reprobation, but the writers in all those places which ye alledge do studie to amend the corrupt maners of their aeges, and to impose silēce to the wicked tongues of many. of whom som accused God as author of sinne which entred in by malice of the deuill, who did corrupt the good creature of God created to his own image to reule in equitie and iustice. who doeth not se but that this writer, who so euer he was, reteineth him self, within the reache of mannes vnderstanding, laboring to conuict their cōscience which maliciously imputed vntounto God, that which he did not worke in them? But that they of their own fre will did follow ād obey iniquitie, and that therefor they should suffer their iust condemnation. And that this my interpretation of their myndes is true, let their own wordes witnes for thus it is writē.
They hauehave said with them selues,Sap. 2. not righteously iudgeīg our lief is troblesom ād short, neither is there any remedie against the death of mā, neither hath he bene knowē that hath returned from the helles, we were b…rn without purpose, and we shalbe as we neuer had ben …or the spirit is but a smoke in our nosethrels &c. in pro…es of tyme our name shall com to obliuion, neither yet shal any man remember our workes. Therefor let vsus vse the present prosperitie, Let vsus oppresse the poore man being iust, let vsus not spare the widowe, neither yet lett vsus re…erence the lōg aeged ād white heares of the ancient, but let the strength of our power, be the law of iustice. and so far furth he accuseth their open tyranny, and then concludeth these thinges, they thoght and did erre, for they were blinded by their own malice: neither hauehave they knowē the mysteries of God (I wonder that ye marked not this place) neither hauehave they hoped for the reward of holynes. for God created mā to immort…litie (here I note your falshode: for ye write God created man to be vndestroyed) and made him to his own similitude. Now let the indifferent reader iudge, whether you or I do nerer attein to the mynd of the wryter you (I say) that do affirme, that he denieth that God hath either elected or reprobated any man, or I that deny that to be any parte of his mynd, but say, he reproueth mannes malicious blasphemy and manifest impietie.
The argument which ye gather of the nynthe chapter of the same book, and wold seme to confirm by the wordes of Christe spoken in the seuenth of Mathew, hath no greater force then the former, for the writer defineth not what God had determined in his secrete and eternall counsell, but what he hath expressedly cōmitted to mannes charge by his law, and by his holie Spirit speaking in his Prophetes, and that him self doeth plainly witnesse. For after that he hath asked wisdom righteously to iudge the people committed to his charge he thus speaketh: what man is he that knoweth the counsell of God or that can comprehend in his mynd, what God wold? The cogitations of mortall men are fearefull and our opinions deceauable, &c. scarsly by cōiecture can we attein, to the thīgs that be in earth, and wt trauale fynd we those things wt be amōgest our hādes. But who shal searche oute those thīgs yt be in the heauēs, and who knoweth they coūsell, except that thow shall giuegive wisdom and from the hiest places shall send thy holie Spirit: for so the wayes of those that dwell vponupon earth hauehave bene directed, and they hauehave learned those things that hauehave pleased the. Cry now as pleaseth you, that because man was made lord ouer creatures in earth (for that is the veritie of the text) to reule the world in holynes: That therefor there was no man reprobated, and he writer will answer for him self and will affirme, that he searcheth not what God hath determined in his eternall counsell, and what shall become of euerie man, (for that confesseth he to be incomprehensible), but he declareth what God commandeth in his law, and what he hath expressed by his holie Prophetes. To the which if man be found inobedient resteth no excusation (seing that gods will is manifestly declared) as Moises saieth in these wordes. The secretes appertein to the Eternall our God but those things that be reueled appertein to vsus and to our children for euer,Deut. 2. that we may do all the wordes of this law.
Your argumentes which ye think most strong gathered of these wordes in the 7. ād 12. of Mathew are most weak and vaine. For as we do not denie that man was created iust, so do we cōstantly affirme that in iustice he stood not, but became altogether vniust, and therefor God did not condemne man before he was giltie, as you falsly gather of our doctrine. Wonder it is, that ye se not degrees and iust causes which com betwext the purpose of reprobation, and the iust condemnation of man. This is your argument: God purposed to reiect man before he was created. Ergò he did damne him before he was criminall or glitie. Your consequent is fals far no part of gods iudgements was put in execution before man did sinne. for grace was offered to Adā after his fall: Cayn was admonished ād rebuked of his crueltie, his posterities ād sede had raged in their furie, and finally all flesh had corrupted their waies befor that gods vengeance and most iust iudgement were poured furth and put in execution against the rebellious and vnthankfull world. If you be able to proue that the sentence of death was executed vponupon Adam before he offended, or that Cayn was accursed by gods mouth before he had murthered, then hath your argumēt som apperance. but if the iust causes of condemnation be found in man, and so founde in man that God in vowies can thereof be accused: then oght you to be ashamed to burden vsus with that which ye your selues most folishly collecte. And further ye shall vnderstand that as the Apostle putteth certen degrees and causes which are sensible vntounto vsus, betwext the eternall election of gods childrē, ād their glorification, euen so put we the contrarie degrees and causes betwext the reprobation and the iust condemnation of the wicked.Lyke as there be degrees betwext election and glorification: euen so there be degrees betwext reprobatiō and cōdemnation. for as those whom God hath chosen before all tymes, in time he calleth, ād that of purpose to Christe Iesus his sōne, ād whō thus he calleth he iustifieth and that more and more vntill that flesh and the corrupt affectiōs thereof being mortified, they attein to their glorie. So by the contrarie be the reprobate, either left all together in blindnes, neuer called to the light and knowledge of gods fre merciemercy, or if they be called they either do condēne it, orels sodanly fall from the same, and so abiding in their corruption do still heap sinne vponupon sinne till at the last their measure being full, God executeth this most iust iudgements against their continuall rebellion. Inferre now as many absurdities as please you vponupon our doctrine. you procede.