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The Ministry of the Church of England · Francis Johnson

The Ministry of the Church of England, Section 10

¶Mr H: his letter. Section, 10.

BVt you vvill say, vvhichwhich of you all have such a calling as hath ben said is prescribed by Lavv: I aunsvver, that many Ministers in the land have, and all may if they vvill have, these substantiall parts of a true calling: theyr gifts may be examined and approved by such as are learned and godly, vponupon vvhose iudgment they may safely rely themselves i… that …: they may be chosen and approved by the people that they are to be set over: they may be rightly ordeyned and as it vvere invested into theyr office.

But your vvriting affirmeth they come in by the Bishops who are the limmes of Antichrist, VVhatsoever is vnlavvfull in theyr callings, I vvill not go about to mainteyne: OnelyOnly I vvill simply and plainely set dovvn vvhat hath moved me to seek a calling from them, and vvhat persvvadeth me to think that the calling I have receyved from them is not vvicked and vnlavvfull.

First, being persvvaded in my conscience that the Lord had a true Church in this Realme even at the beginning of her Maiestyes raigne, vvhichwhich being assembled out of all the parts of the Land in Parliament, did commit this authority to ordeyne Ministers vntounto the Bishops: and knovving out of the vvord of God that eueryevery true Church hath this povver and authority to ordeyne Ministers: I considered vvith my self that though the Church offended in committin-this povver and authority vntounto them that by the Lavv of God vvere not capable of it, yet I might vvithout sinne seek and take the Churches ordination at theyr hands: as I may reverence and take the benefit of the Princes povver and authority vvhichwhich is of God, though it be committed vntounto and exercised by men that by the Lavv of God are not capable of it.

Secondly, seing it is a thing not to be refused if a man entring into the ministery might have the approbation of all and every one of the Ministers of the Gospell in the land: it seemeth vntounto me the approbation of that Bishop that is also a Minister and preacher of the Gospell cannot be deemed to be meerly vnlavvfull.

Thirdly, the authority of the Christian Magistrate (vvithout vvhose liking and allovvance a Minister cannot be admitted to the Ministery in peace) comming to the Bishop by Act of Parliament, I may more boldly come to him for his approbation in regard of the Lavv: not looking so much vntounto the Man, as …garding vvith reuerence the povver of the Lavv and Christian Magistrate.

¶Aunswer to Section, 10.

I Am sory to see Mr H. thus weary himself in seeking balme for the healing of Babels sore, which cannot be cured. We need not aske him (as here he deviseth an obiection with himself) vvhichwhich of them have such a calling as is prescribed by the Lavv: For notwithstanding theyr manifold breaches even of theyr own Law, yet we doubt not but ynow and to many of them have the calling appoynted by Law: that is, are made. Deacons and Priests by a Lordbishop, according to theyr book taken out of the Popes pontificall, contrary to the Testament of Christ: and are also presented by the Patrones, and instituted by the Prelates, to cure of soules: whereof would to God they made not marchandize, as thekRev. 18. 11. 13. Scripture speaketh. The oftener then that he mentioneth this, he doth but so much the more cast doung in theyr own faces.

Neyther is it to be past over (but well to be observed) that himself here reckoneth vp and accounteth these three to be substantiall parts of a true calling to the ministery, 1. A due examination of gifts: 2. The choyse and approbation of the people that they are to be set over: 3. A right ordination into theyr office. These three he sayth are substantiall parts of a true calling: Wherevpō it followeth, that none of theyr Ministers have the substāce of a true calling, seyng they wāt these substātiall parts thereof: as is proved*In the a…nsvver to Section, 6. 8. 9 before and afterward agayne, ād as theyr own estate testifyeth agaynst them to theyr faces. Yea Mr H himself vp his own words here importeth thus much, that divers at least of their ministers wāt the substāce of a true calling. Els (when he aunswereth to his own objection) why saith he, Many Ministers in the Land have these substantiall parts: ād sayth not, that all theyr Ministers have them? Many he sayth, ād not all. Thus to vphold some of theyr Ministers (if he could), he careth not to smite down others of them to the ground: ād those also such, as have the same Ministery ād calling with the rest, which is prescribed by Law. But compare this with that which he wrote, and see what a fayre thred he hath spun for himself. Al theyr Ministers have not the substāce of a true calling: This he insinuateth here, ād in his own vnderstā ding of the substantiall parts set down by himself cannot deny it if he would. Yet all theyr Ministers be made Priests or Deacons, or both, by the Prelates, according to theyr book aforesayd: This also he yeeldedlSection. 9. before, neyther if he would can deny it. The conclusion therefore must be this, that the Priests and Deacons so made by the Prelates according to theyr book (such as be all theyr Ministers) have not the substance of a true calling to the Ministery. This you see followeth vponupon his own aunswers: Besides that we omit to speak of theyr presentations, and of theyr inductions by the Prelates, which the Law appoynteth as substantiall parts of theyr calling when they take charge of soules. OnelyOnly marke here agayn his contradictiō with himself, whiles he stribeth against the truth.

Now to proceed, let him tell vsus whom he meaneth here by the learned and godly whose examination and approbation they are to have, and on whose judgment they may safely rely in that matter. If he meane the Archdeacon or other Priests that be examiners for the Prelates (as theyr Law and vse is): how will he prove that they are such as he sayth, that is, learne… and godly? or that theyr examination and approbation was ever appoynted by Christ, or is to be had as a substautiall part of true calling to the Ministery? or finally, that any may safely rely vponupon theyr iudgment in this matter? But if he meane (as doubtles he doth) the examinatiō and approbatiō of some of the forward Preachers amōg them: himself knoweth, first that the Law appoynteth it not: wherevpon will follow by his own assertion that all the substātiall parts of a true calling to the ministery are not prescribed by Law, which yetmSection 9. before he labored to prove. Secondly he is not ignorant, and theyr constitution and practise showeth it, that although secretly (it may be) some of them are tryed ād approved by such as here he intēdeth, yet neyther is this generall, ād those also which have this, have notwithstāding ād must have that other which law binds vntounto. Now if that after the Law be of Christ, why have they the other? If it be not of Christ, why receyv they it at all, or how is it true which he sayd (mSection 9.) before, that their Law agreeth with the Law of God, as towching the substance of a true calling to the Ministery? Thirdly, are not these forward preachers also (aswell as the other) Deacōs and Priests, so ordeyned by the Prelates as aforesayd: ād therefore have a Ministery never ordeyned by Christ, but brought in by Antichrist? And what priviledg them have they herein more then the other? Or how will it be proved for them, any more then for the other, that thus standing their examination and allowance is an ordinance of Christ, or substantiall part of true calling to the Ministery? Or that any may safely rely themselves vponupon theyr judgment in this matter?

For the next likewise, that is, the choyse ād approbatiō of the people that they are to be set over: if he meane it generally of any people whatsoever, whether Idolaters, Atheists, Papists, or others standing subject to Antichrist, or such like: how will he ever prove that such have this power and authority of Christ, to choose the Ministers of his Gospell? Or if he meane it (as needs he must if he speak to the purpose) of such people as by the word of God be called ād separated from the world, ioyned in covenāt ād fellowship of the Gospell, being true visible Churches of Christ: then also how will it ever be proved that theyr people in this theyr Church constitution (as now they stand in confusion ād spirituall bōdage to Antichrists Ministery, worship, ordināces, courts, and jurisdiction), are such people and Churches, having the power ād liberty which Christ hath given to his Church for trying ād chusing their own Ministers according to the rules of his Testamēt? Is it possible that they which stād in subjectiō to Antichrist, should also be the freemen of Iesus Christ? Or that the priviledges of Christs Church should belong vntounto and be found in the Synagogues of Antichrist? n2 Cor. 6. 14. 15. 16.Christ ād Belial cānot agree together. 2. But yet further what choyse ād allowāce is it that they pretend to have of the people? Is it not a secret gathering of the cōsēt of some few in the towne or parish? And cā this interest them to the charge of the soules of the whole towne or parish, whē most of them neyther give theyr consent nor have it asked. But it may be he will say, they dare not trust any herein but some few, or that they account them not to be godly mynded. Yet dare they Minister the Sacraments to them all, and receyv them and theyr seed as members of the Church, and take maintenance from them as from the Church. Is this to walk vprightly before the Lord, and to go with an even foot to the truth of the Gospell, 3. But be it that all the people gave theyr consent: yet whom and whereto do they chuse? Chuse they not one that eyther is already, or before he can minister to them must be made, Deacon or Priest or both by a Lordbishop? who also must in that Ministery administer to them theyr holy things according to theyr book of Common prayer and other theyr Canons and constitutions? Now that such a choyse and approbation is a substantiall part of true calling, who ever can perswade or be perswaded? 4. Or doth theyr Law appoynt and allow this choyse and approbation of the people for lawfull and sufficient? Who is it that knoweth not the contrary? For whether it be had, or not, the Law requireth and they must have theyr ministery from the Prelates, and when they take cure of soules, the Patrones presentation, and the Prelates induction into the benefice. And this onelyonly is that which standeth for sufficient in theyr▪ Law and constitution. Hence therefore agayn appeareth even by his own assertion (contrary to that which*Section, 9. before he would have proved) that the Lavv appoynteth not the substance of a true calling to the Ministery, neyther agreeth vvith the Lavv▪ of God therein: forasmuch as not onelyonly it appoynteth not the peoples choyse (whichoAct. 6. 2 3. 5. and 14. 23. and 1. 15. 23. 26. 2 Cor. 8. 19. Ezech. 33. 2. Num. 8. 9. 1 Cor. 16. 3. Gods word requireth) but in stead thereof enioyneth presentatiō by a Patrone (be he Papist, Atheist, or whatsoever) and induction by a Lordbishop: which God never commaunded, but was and is retayned from the Popes Canons, custome, and pontificall. 5. Moreover, if the peoples choyse and approbation be the true choyse and calling (as here he graunteth): why then do they take that other of the Patrones and Prelates, never appoynted by Christ, but forged by Antichrist? Is it because they would have all men know, that in theyr constitutionp2 Thes. 2. 3. 4. the man of sinne is exalted above God and his holy ordinances? Or because they would have it seen of all, that theyqEzech. 43. 8. set theyr thresholds by Gods thresholds, that they may defile his Name? Will they never learne, thatr2. Cor. 6. 14. 15. 16. Christ and Antichrist, light and darknes, cannot have fellowship and concord together? To end this poynt then, seing the peoples choyse (by his own confession) is a substantiall part of true calling to the Ministery (and this is to be vnderstood of such people onelyonly as be the true visible Churches of Christ, and theyr people in theyr estate can not by the word of God be accounted such, but in deed to stand in spiritiall slavery to Antichrist) it is evident they neyther have, nor as they stand can have, the substance of a true calling to the Ministery of the Gospell of Christ.

Towching the last substantiall part he assigneth, which is a right ordination into theyr office: if he meane of that which is had from the Prelates (which onelyonly the Law appoynteth) how will he prove it to be a substantiall part of true calling to the Ministery? Specially, it being no ordinance of Christ but part of Antichrists apostasy, as hath ben showed*Sec … 6. 8. 9. before: and seing also the power of ordination is such as by the Law of God the Prelates are not capable thereof: as him self here graunteth and affirmeth in playne words. If he meane of some other besides to be had among them (not from the Prelates, but) from some of theyr forward Preachers: then first he is to mynd that here agayn he crosseth himself, beause making this a substantiall part of true calling, and the Law not appoynting it (as it doth not), it followes herevpon that the Law prescribeth not the substance of a true calling to the Ministery: Which before he affirmed. 2. Agayn, if this be so, what becometh of all the Ministers in the Land that have not this other ordination, but that onelyonly of the Prelates and Priests present as the Law appoynteth, neyther have the choyse of the people, nor examination and allowance of the Learned ād godly he speaketh of? All such by his own account have not the substance of a true calling: and therefore cannot be true Ministers: for these three he saith are substantiall parts thereof. Now in the Land there be an hundred of these for one of the other. Is not theyr Ministery (think you) well holye vp by this meanes? 3. Nay and what one of them all that pretend to have this other, dare stand forth before theyr LOrds the Prelates, and avow…h theyr Ministery by vertue thereof? When they come before them, they can show theyr letters of Orders receyved from them: howsoever before theyr followers (to mislead them) they colour the matter otherwise. 4. Furthermore, have not these forward Preachers themselves receyved theyr Ministery from the Prelates and retayne it still vntounto this day? How then can a right ordination possibly be had from such? Who cansIob. 14. 4 bring a cleane thing out of filthynes? Is itt… 7. 16. … 14. 25. 10. vvith 2 Thes. 2. 3. possible that a lawfull ordination should be had from the Ministers and apostasy of Antichrist? Eyther is this vtterly to leave ād forsake (which wevEsa. 52. 11. Rev. 18. 4. 2 Cor. 6. 17. ought) or is it not rather still to cleave vntounto and retayne (which vnderunder vvRev. 14. 9. 10. 11. and 17. 1. and 18. 4. vvith 2. Thes. 2. 10. 11. 12.payne of damnation we may not) the Ministery and abominations of Antichrist that sonne of perdition?

It remayneth then, that theyr calling to the Ministery being examined by these particulars, which Mr H. himself hath here assigned to be substātiall parts of a true calling: they neyther have, neyther whiles they thus stand, cā have, a true calling to the Ministery of the Gospell. Thus well hath he reasoned for theyr calling, and aunswered the obiectiō framed by himself.

Now in his writing there followeth another obiection, with his aunswer therevnto: Whereyn he pleadeth agayn with as yll successe as before. The obiection is this, that it is affirmed they come in by the Bishops, who are the limmes of Antichrist. The obiection suerly is of waight, and had need be soundly aunswered. For if the Prelates be the limmes of Antichrist, and they also come into theyr Ministery by them, it cānot be avoyded but theyr Ministery (by vertue whereof they deale with the holy things of God, and work vponupon mens consciences) is Antichristian: ād therefore not to be receyved or ioyned vntounto: Which is the thing that was to be proved. What is it then that he saith herevnto? Doth he deny that the Prelates be limmes of Antichrist, and prove the contrary by the Scripture? No in deed: but he leaveth them as he found them, the limmes of Antichrist: and seemeth so astonyed partly at the truth on the one hand, partly with the vnlawfulnes of theyr office on the other as notwithstanding they are thus deeply charged, yet he denyes not the charge but rather yeelds vntounto it, saying, that whatsoever is vnlawfull in theyr callings he will not go about to mainteyne: Yea, that by Law of God they are not capable of that which is committed vntounto them by the Parliament. Where besides that he leaveth them without defence against so waighty an accusation, he doth himself also charge them with breach of Gods Law and vnlawfulnes in theyr callings: and so yeelds vsus the cause. The Prelates and his fellow Priests will not thank him for this. And sure if any way it could have ben done, now was it altogether needfull to have convinced by evidence of Scripture, both that the Prelates are not the limmes of Antichrist, and that theyr offices and callings are lawfull. But the truth is mighty, and will prevayle against all that withstand it, …ll they, will they.

Well then, leaving thus the Prelates to be limmes of Antichrist, what saith he to the other, which is, that the Ministers of the land come into theyr Ministery by the Prelates? Doth he deny this? No, but graunteth it also, as needs he must. For such is theyr constitution and practise: Besides that if any standing Ministers of these assemblyes should enter otherwise, they could not but be intruders and hypocrites. Intruders, because they should thrust themselves into theyr Ministery eyther by no calling, or by other then is receyved and allowed in theyr Church: Hypocrites, because ministring in and to these assemblyes they should seem vntounto men to do it by vertue of such calling as is appoynted by Law of theyr Church, when in deed it were otherwise. It cannot be denyed then but they do and must come in by the Prelates, who are limmes of Antichrist. Now what followeth herevpon, let themselves and all that partake with them well consider and repent, whilesxHeb. 3. 7. &c. it is called To day.

But saith Mr H. nothing in this poynt at all? Yes: though he leave the Prelates and other Priests to shift for themselves yet for himself he takes a litle paynes: saying, he will simply ād playnely set down what moved him to seek a calling from the Prelates, and what perswadeth him to think the calling he receyved from them is not vvicked and vnlavvfull. Well: but what if the other Ministers of the Land (who take themselves to have as a good a calling as he, yet) were not moved neyther are perswaded therevnto by these reasons wherevpon he rest…th? what now will he, and what must we account of theyr Ministery by this reckoning? Agayn, what if the reasons he alledgeth for himself be not of waight in this case so to move and perswade eyther him or any other? How then will he have vsus esteem of his calling and Ministery? Let vsus therefore examine his reasons. But first mark that he saith, he sought a calling from the Prelates and receyved it. He was not thē sought spyed out, and called by a Church (as is theyHeb. 5. 4. vvith Act. 6. 2. 3. 5. and 14. 23. Ezech 33. 2. 2 Cor. 8. 19. ordinance of Christ) but himself, he saith, sought to be called by the Prelates, and receyved his calling from them. Which maner of calling seing it is such as God never ordeined, it therefore neither might be receyved of him, neyther may be ioyned vntounto by any other. But let vsus see what moved him herevnto.

FIrst (saith Mr H.) being persvvaded in my conscience that the Lord had a true Church in this Realme even at the beginning of her Maiestyes raigne, vvhichwhich being assembled out of all parts of the Land in Parliament did commit this authority to ordeyne Ministers vntounto the Bishops: and knovving out of the vvord of GOD that every true Church hath this povver and authority to ordeyne Ministers: I considered vvith my self, that though the Church offended in committing this povver vntounto them that by the Lavv of God vvere not capable of it, yet I might vvithout sinne seek and take the Churches ordination at theyr hands: as I may reverence and take the benefit of the Princes povver ād authority vvhichwhich is of God, though it be committed vntounto and exercised by men that by the Lavv of God are not capable of it.

THis is Mr H. his first and chief reason. Wherein (as also in the rest following) let this be observed generally, that although in the*Section, 1. Pag. 1. beginning of his letter he promised nothing should be brought to perswade, but the word of GOd, yet now in stead thereof he setteth before vsus the perswasions of his conscience (Which is a thing very vsuall among them): as if they were eyther divine oracles, or as foroible to perswade as they. Yea, here he seemeth to prefer his perswasions before Gods oracles: (Which if he had not done, I would not thus have noted it). For confessing on the one hand, that he knoweth out of the word of God that every true Church hath this power and authority to ordeyne Ministers (and consequently that it is Gods ordinance to have it in and from a true Church, as he hath appoynted): yet on the other hand he professeth, that the Parliament committing this power vntounto such as by the Law of God are not capable of it, to wit, to the Prelates (and so offending therein), he notwithstanding vponupon his perswasion sought and took ordination from the Prelates hands. Now what was this els, but to regard his own perswasion more then the word of God? Specially, when he ioyneth withall, that he thought he might so do without sinne. Sure, this is straunge divinity. The Scripture teacheth, that wez1 Tim. 5 22. may not be partakers of other mens sinnes: And, thata1 Ioh. 3. 4. the transgression of Gods Law is sinne. He notwithstanding thought that he might partake with others in the breach of Gods ordinance, and yet not sinne. I hope he is otherwise mynded synce, and so will be every day more and more. In the meane tyme it is cleare, that though these very things which he would seem to rest vponupon were all graunted him, yet they make altogether agaynst him: and so this first reason of his is found in this case to be of no waight. Yet before we proceed to the rest, it will not be amisse for more evidence of the truth more fully to consider the particulars here set down.

1 And first where he sayth he is perswaded the Lord had a true Church in this Realme at the beginning of her Majestyes raigne &c. it would be knowen whether he speak of invisible or of a visible Church of God. If he speak of invisible, he speaketh not to the poynt in question: besides that they could not be counted an invisible Church, and yet be knowen to be assembled together in Parliament. If he speak of a visible Church (as he must if he will speak to the purpose, and as it seemeth he meaneth because he sayth they were then assembled together) then how doth he prove this to be so? In deed we deny not but God had his flock and Church even a true visible Church in this Land at the beginning of her Majestyes raigne: For we have heard and read that in Queen Maryes dayes there was here a Congregation of faythfull people separated from the rest of the Land and gathered into fellowship together to serve the LORD according to his word, and to keep themselves pure from the abominations of Antichrist: That this Congregation also chuse them Ministers, Elders, and Deacons, to instruct guyde and serve them in the Lord: and that they had theyr holy meetings, and showed notable testimonyes of their faith and love. So long then as they kept communiō in this way, we deny not but they were a true visible Church: though (it may be) in some defects through want of further light and instruction. The like we think also of our countreymen that were then at Frankford, Geneva, and other where beyond seas. But when Queen Mary dyed, and Queen Elizabeth (whom God long preserve) came to the Crown, then the Masse and some other superstitions of popery being abolished, agaynst which these Congregations had witnessed the truth in much affliction, they herevpon dissolved, and the severall members scattered themselves to theyr parishes here and there throughout the Land: commingling themselves in confusion with the rest of the land that were Idolaters and repented not: and submitting theyr soules to the Prelates and to the Ministery receyved from and executed vnderunder them: as also to theyr courts, canons, excommunications, and other Antichristian jurisdiction retayned in the Land: And so have continued in apostasy from the way of Christ vntounto this day. Now these Congregations being thus dissolved, and the members there of thus standing: they were not now any lōger true visible Churches in the order of Christ, but fallen into confusion with the world and into spirituall bondage to the Prelates and other Clergy the limmes of Antichrist. So as from hence for the poynt in hand Mr H. can derive no help for himself.

But be it that they had remayned still visible Churches in true constitution, and had assembled together and committed this authority of ordination to the Prelates: Yet this being not warrantable by the word of God, it had bound no mans conscience, neyther ben sufficient warrant for any to partake in theyr sinnes. For the sinfull actions of the Church do not bynd or warrant vsus any more, then the sinfull actions of the world: Neyther can all Churches or Nations vnderunder heavē make that lawfull, which God by his word maketh vnlawfull. Though bExod. 32 cap.all the people of Israel (being the true Church of God) enjoyne and commit vntounto Aaron to make a molten calfe to go before them: Yet was not Aaron therefore bound or warranted therevnto, but sinned in so doing: as they also did that tooke part thereyn. Agayne (for example sake) let vsus suppose that which in deed was not, to wit, that Moses and Aaron and all that were famous in the Congregatiō, yea that the whole Cō gregation of Israel (being the true Church) should have committed to Corah, Dathan, Abiram, ād theyr company, power to take censers and burne incense thereyn before the LOrd: cNum. 16 cap.yet they being not capable of that power by the Law of GOD, neyther might have taken it, neyther might any other have communicated with them thereyn: but all that would not perish in theyr sinne should have departed from them and theyr tents. Whend2 King. 16. … 16. vvith Esa 7. and 8 cap. Achaz King of Iudah appoynted and Altar to be made after the fashion of the altar of Damascus (though the disciples and people of God which at that tyme were in Iudah should have consented thereyn, and committed power to Vryah and the other Priests to offer vponupon it burnt offrings and peace offrings, ād that to no other but the true God): Yet should not …riah or any other therefore eyther have done it or partaken thereyn. Whene1 King. 12. 20—31. Ieroboam King of Israeel toke counsell with his Princes and people, and made Priests of the lawest of the people which were not of the sonnes of Levi (ād therefore not capable of the Priests office) though the ten tribes, having ben til this tyme the Church and people of God, consented therevnto: Yet did not this therefore bynd or warrāt any of them eyther to receyv that office, or to joyne vntounto them in the worship of God. To come nearer our own dayes, let vsus suppose that which himself will think is as likely if not more thē that he alledgeth, to wi…, that in this Land was a true Church at the end of King Edwards dayes, vvhichwhich being assembled out of all parts of the Lād in Parliament in the beginning of Q: Maryes raigne, did commit this povver ād authority of ordination to the Prelates (vvhereof by the Lavv of God they vvere not capable): Yet will not Mr H. say, but it was vnlawfull notwithstanding for any to seek or receyve ordination from then. Otherwise what impiety is there that by this meanes might not be made at least some what tolerable: as may appeare by the examples and instāces before mentioned and infinite other that might be alledged? The same Parliament whereof he speaketh, authorising the book of common prayer did thereyn (he knoweth) commit power and authority vntounto weomē in cases of necessity to baptize (whereof by the Law of God they are altogether vncapable):f1 Cor. 14 34 35. 1 Ti. 2. 12. compared vvith Eph. 4. 11. 12. and Mat. 28. 18. 19. will he therefore say, it is lawfull eyther for women to administer Baptisme, or for any to yeeld their children to be baptized of them: because they may reverence and take benefit of the Princes povver ād authority vvhichwhich is of God, though it be committed vntounto and exercised by such as by the Lavv of God are not capable of it? Many mo particulars might be alledged of like nature both out of the Scriptures and Lawes of this and other Nations: but for the matter in hand the former allegations may suffice.

2. Next where Mr H. sayth, that at the beginning of her Maiestyes raigne the Parliament committed this authority to ordeyne Ministers to the Bishops: he mistaketh the matter, if he think that then first they receyved it. For the authority of ordination was not then first committed vntounto the Prelates, but continued to them from former tymes: ād ratifyed vntounto them both at that tyme and afterward agayne in the eyght yeare of her Highnes raigne, as may appeare by the*Anno. 1. Eliz. cap. 1. and 8. Eliz. cap. 1. statu…es then enacted. Which it seemeth the Prelates and Priests of the Lād desired, because theyr offices and authority being called into question, they were not able to bring warrant for them out of the Law of God, and therefore got what strength they could from the Law of Man. The truth then is, that not at the beginning of her Majestyes raigne, but hundreds of yeares before her Majesty was borne, the Prelates had this power of ordination in theyr hands as much as now they have. For who knoweth not that both their offices and callings and this their authority of ordination is part of theg2 Thes. 2 3. Rev. 9. 1. 2 3. apostasy of the Man of sinne? even part of thosehRev. 17. 4. 5. and 18. 3. abominatiōs wherewith the golden cup of the whore of Babylon is full, and wherewith she hath long syn…e made drunken the nations of the earth, and this of England among the rest? Many of which abominations we confesse have ben swept out of this Land both in the tyme of King Henry the eyght, and of King Edward the sixt, ād of Elizabeth our dread Soveraigne: For which we prayse God. Yet notwithstāding (to speak as the truth is) many also of those abominatiōs of Babylō are remayning in the Lād, from which it was never purged ūto this day: Of which sort are the offices, callings, administration, and maintenance, both of the Prelacy and other clergy yet retayned in the Land, from the hyest Prelate to the lowest Priest, together with theyr book worship, canons, compulsion and confusion of all sorts of people whatsoever to be members of theyr Church and such like which were long to relate in particular.

So then if Mr H. would have simply and plainely showed vntounto vsus the originall of this power and authority in the Prelates, he should have led vsus, not to the beginning of her Maiestyes raigne (as if it had then begun) but to the apostasy of the man of sinne: from whence it first sprang and spred abroad into this and other Nations of the earth, many ages before her Highnes raigne or birth. Neyther hath it hitherto ben abolished out of this land, as it ought: but being found here at the beginning of her Maiestyes raigne, was left remayning still, ād is not suppressed but retayned evē vntounto this day. Wherevpō is come to passe, that the Prelates ād Priests retayning still theyr calling and authority, have by the iust iudgment of God showed themselves to be nothing behind theiNum. 33. 55. Iosua 23. 13. vvith Iudg. 1. cap, and 3. 4. Cananites, Hivites, Iebusites, and other inhabitants of the Nations whom God commaunded Israel to drive out before them, ād they notwithstanding let them still remayne among them: that is, they are become pricks in our eyes and thornes in our sides, vexing all such as feare God in the Land: and it is to be feared (if Gods mercy be not the greater) will be a snare and destruction to the Land, as already they are to the soules and consciences of the people therein.

The Lord stir vp the royall heart of her Maiesty, that she may discerne theyr iniquity and abolish theyr offices and callings out of the Land, and make them desolate and naked, eating theyr flesh, even theyr revennewes and poffessions, by converting them to her own civill vses and the weale publik of the Land. Thesame God, the King of Kings, work it also in the hearts of the other Princes and Magistrates of the world, that they may do likewise within theyr Dominions: that so the most wicked Hierarchy and religion of Antichrist may be vtterly consumed from of the earth, and the Gospell of Iesus Christ may have free passage ād be glorifyed among all nations to the ends of the world: as the Scripture hath said shall come to passe. Rev. 17. 16. and 18. 20. 21. and 14. 6. 7. 8. and 21. 15. 24. 26. with 2 Thes. 2. 8. and 3. 1. Mat. 24. 14.

3 Thirdly where Mr H. saith, he knew out of the word of God that every true Church of GOD hath the power and authority to ordeyne Ministers, ād that the Prelates by the Lavv of God are not capable of it, and yet that he sought and took ordination of the Prelates: this is so far from being any defence vntounto him in this case, as it doth rather manifest his sinne to be the greater and far more grievous: inasmuch as hereby it seemeth he took ordination of the Prelates, against the knowledg which he had out of the word of God to the contrary.

4. Fourthly let it be observed, that here he saith the Parliament offended in committing the povver and authority of ordination to the Prelates, that by the Law of God are not capable of it: and yet before he affirmed, that theyr Law agreeth with the Law of GOD as towching the substance of a true calling to the Ministery, of which he made right ordination to be a part. Thus he both contradicteth himself, and agayn yeeldeth the cause. For if they offended against the Law of God in committing this power to the Prelates (as he directly affirmeth) and there is no other Ministery had and all…ed in the Land but from the Prelates (as there is not): hence it must needs follow, that theyr calling and Ministery is vnlawfull, and neyther to be receyved nor joyned vntounto.

5. Fiftly, where he calleth the ordination taken from the Prelates, the Churches ordination receyved at their hands: and yet before sayd, the Church hath power to ordeyne, but the Prelates by the Law of God are not capable of it: here agayne he forgetteth and contradicteth himself.

6. Finally, it may be observed that in the shutting vp of this reason he speaketh of the Princes power and authority committed to men that by the Law of God are not capable of it, when as before in the former part of the reason he had spoken of the Churches power and authority committed to such as by the Law of God are not capable of it. Thus he keepeth not to the poynt in question: but speaking of ordination of Ministers, one while he caryeth vsus to the Churches power and authority committed to men not capable thereof, another while to the Princes power, so likewise committed: As if the power and authority of Princes and of the Church were all one ād not distinct in the ordinance and appoyntment of God: or as if whatsoever may be done in the one, were also to be admitted in the other. What straunge consequences would follow herevpon, let himself consider. And hitherto of the insufficiency of his first reason. Now let vsus see if there be any more wayght in his second: which is as followeth.

SEcondly (sayth Mr H.) seyng it is not to be refused, if a man entring into the Ministery might have the approbation of all and every one of the Ministers of the Gospell in the land: it seemeth vntounto me the approbation of that Bishop that is also a Minister and preacher of the Gospell cannot be deemed to be meerly vnlavvfull.

1. BVt what if the Bishops and Ministers he speaketh of be not the Bishops and Ministers of Christ, but of Antichrist? not in a true, but in a false Ministery? not according to Christs Gospell, but Antichrists apostasy? not servants of Iesus Christ the onelyonly LOrd and head of his Church, but Lords themselves over the Ministers ād people vnderunder them? Will it not then seem to Mr H. that the ordination receyved from them cannot otherwise be deemed but meerly vnlawfull? But such have they ben proved to be both in this and*Refucation of Mr Gyfford, printed, 1591. Discovery of the false Church, 1590. Conferenes betvveen certayn Preachers and prisoners. Confession of our faith, &c. other writings heretofore: to which it shall suffice to refer you and him towching this matter. Or if for ani preiudice against vsus he will not heare this of vsus, let him yet heare and consider what themselves have written ād professed heretofore in this behalf. And let the controversy in this poynt be debated between him and Mr Travers, Mr Cartwright, Mr Fenner, Mr Chaderton, and all other that have sought Reformation.

Mr Travers in hiskDefence of eccles. discipl. pag. 88. 89. 90. 91. book against D. Bridges proveth by divers good and sufficient reasons, that theyr Bishops are neyther Pastors nor Teachers. And what ordinari Ministery of the Gospell then do they execute? As for extraordinary, the Prelates were not knowen, when they were in the world: besides that they are as vnlike them as darknes is to light.

Mr Cartwright, striking at the chief and strength of theyr Ministery, that is, at the Archbishops and Archdeacons, vnderunder whom the other Bishops and Ministers execute theyr offices, proveth that lT C▪ first reply. pag. 8. and 88.theyr functions are not in the vvord of God, but of the earth, nevv devised ministeryes, and such as cā do no good Yea that the Archbishops office is the neck of the popish Hierarchy, come out of the bottomles pit of hell.

Mr Fenner hath mDefence of godly Minist. against Bridges slaunders. Pag. 111.published, that if St Paul vvere novv in England, and no greater man then he vvas made by Christ, he might not be equall vvith these Bishops: For they are spirituall Lords, he vvas never so: they might send for him by a pursevant, lay him in the Counter or commaund him to the Fleet, so could not Paul do the least Minister of the Gospell. Agayn he nIn the same book. pag. 123.saith, speaking of theyr offices, Our kind of Bishops, the Commissaryes, the Archdeacons and such like, we account them no natural members of the body of Christs Church because they are of humane addition, not borne with her, nor growen vp with her from the cradle.

Mr Chaderton oSermon on Rom. 1…. pag. 34.writeth that the callings of Archbishops, Bishops, Archdeacons, Deacons, Chauncelors, and all such be rather members and parts of the vvhore ād strumpet of Rome, then of the pure virgin and spouse of the immaculate Lamb. And that they have no title nor interest in the Church as publik members, but by the length of theyr vnlavvfull svvords keep out lavvfull members of the body.

Finally, all the seekers of Reformation have in pAdmon. to Parlia. 2. treatise. Sect. 14. 18. 20.the Admonition to the Parliament professed, that the Names and offices of Archbishops, Archdeacons, Lordbishops, &c. are together vvith theyr government dravven out of the Popes shop, Antichristian, divelish, and contrary to the Scriptures: That the Parsons, Vicars, Parish priests, Stypendaryes &c. be birds of the same fether: And in a word (as hath ben noted before) that they have an Antichristian Hierarchy and popish ordering of Ministers straunge from the vvord of God and the vse of all vvell reformed Churches in the vvorld.

Thus have they thought, and thus have they publisshed heretofore. Let Mr H. therefore dispute the controversy with them. And if he or any other cannot with pacyence heare the truth of vsus, let them yet be content to heare and take it in good part at the hands of these men of whom they have no such prejudice. And then see whether it have or can have so much as any colour of truth; that the Prelates should be Ministers of the Gospell: or that ordination may be receyved from them, who are not members (much lesse officers) of the body of Christs Church: these men themselves beyng witnesses. (Not to speak here of the testimony of former tymes: For which see the*Act. and Monum. edit. 4. Pag. 150. 468. 562. 563. 639. hystoryes of Iohn Wickleff, William Swinderby, the Lord Cobham, Iohn Claydon etc.)

2. Secondly, let it herevpon agayne be noted, how wavering and vnstable these men are in all theyr wayes: as if IEsus Christ were Yea and Nay, and notqHeb. 13. 8. vvith 2 Cor. 1. 19. 20 one and the same yesterday, to day, and for ever. Heretofore theyrIn theyr treatises before alledged. published that the Prelates vvere not Pastors not Teachers, nor members of the body of CHRISTS CHVRCH: but that theyr offices callings and government vvere Antichristian, divelish, and contrary to the Scriptures. But now behold, they account the PRELATES to be MINISTERS of the GOSPELL. Is it not piteous to see them thus halt between two opinions: and to vse such lightnes in the matmatters of God, as that theyr word should thus be Yea and Nay, and themselves like reeds shaken with every wynd and clouds caryed about with every tempest? Let them take heed least whiles thus they dally with the Lord, he take them in theyr own crafty…es and bring vponupon them that which iss2 Tim. 3. 13. written, The evill men and deceyvers shall wax worse and worse, deceyving and being deceyved.

3. Thirdly, see here agayn how they take for graunted that which they should prove: to wete, that the Prelates are Ministers of the Gospell. For this is the poynt in controversy: they being charged not onelyonly not to be such, but to be limmes of Antichrist, standing in t2 Thes. 2 3. 4.apostasy from the way and Gospell of Christ: yea adversaryes against and exalted above the Lord and his holy ordinances.

4. Fourthly, if they were true Ministers, yet it were an endles work (and without all rule or example in the Scripture) for a man entring into the Ministery to seek the approbation of all and every one of the Ministers of an whole land. And yet if this were to be had, it would make the more against Mr H. who would onelyonly seek for the approbation of some one (as here he reasonath) d passe by all the rest of the Land, who notwithstāding by this meanes should have as much interest therein as the other.

5 Lastly, it is to be mynded here, how he turneth away from the question and matter in hand: telling vsus of approbation, when he should speak of ordination. … …rdination cary with it also an approbation of partly …, yet every approbation is not ordination: as Mr H. … very well. And hitherto of his second … of it. Now followeth his third and last: … there be any more strength then in the former. The … fare these:

Thirdly (saith Mr. H.) the authority of the Christian Magistrate (vvithout vvhose liking and allovva…ce a Minister cannot be admitted to the … in peace) coming to the Bishop by Act of Parliament, I may more boldly come to him for his approbation in regard of the Lavv: not looking so much vntounto the Man, as regarding vvith reverence the povver of the Lavv and Christian Magistrate.

THis is Mr H. his third and last reason (as also the last words of his letter that came to my hands): For aunswer whereof let it be remembred, how before in his first reason he confessed (as the truth is) that the P…lates by the Lavv of God are not capable of this povver and authority to ordeyn Ministers, vvhichwhich is committed vntounto them by Act of Parliament: Yet notwithstanding here he saith, that in regard of the Lavv and Christian Magistrate he may more boldly come to the Prelates for it. As if the authority of Man could make that lawfull, which God hath made vnlawfull. What els is this, but to advaunce Mans Law above Gods, and to exalt flesh and blood above the Lord himself: who is God over al blessed for ever, Amen. Straunge doubtles is that Ministery and fearfull is that standing, which cannot otherwise be vpholden then by making God (by whom Princes raigne) to stoupe vntounto Man, whose breath is in his nostrils. The Prophets, Apostles, and Christ himself have taught vsus otherwise, that vPsal. 2. 10. 11. 12. Deut. 28. 58. Esa. 66. 23. Zech. 2. 13. Luk. 12. 5. Heb. 12. 28. 29.all flesh even Kings and Princes as well as others ought to feare and tremble before the great God of heave and earth, that allvvPsal. 119 21. they are cursed which do erre from his …ommaundements, and thatxEsa, 60. 12. the nation and Kingdome which will not serve him, shall perish and be vtterly destroyed. Therefore should Mr H. eyther have showed this Law and ordinance of the Magistrates to be agreable to the Law and commaundement of God (which he doth not): or finding it otherwise as himself confesseth it to be, he should with the Apostles have said and showed in his practise, thatyAct. 5. 29. vve ought rather to obey God then men. Otherwise if we were to receyve whatsoever religion or whatsoever thing in religion is ordeyned by the Law and Magistrate: what were this els, but to make thery State and kingdome such an Idoll as was Nebuchadnezars golden image ād to exalt earthly princes above the heavenly King and to annihilate the Testamēt of Iesus Christ confirmed in that this precious blood?

If he except and … to help himself by this, that he speaheth here of Christian Magistrates onelyonly, and not of Magistrates in generall, he is deceyved. For the povver and nature of Magistracy (in whomsoever it be whether Christian or Heathen) iszRom. 13. 1—5. 1 Pet. 2. 13. 14. Tit. 3. 1. Mat. 22. 21. Esa. 49. 23. and 60. 2. Rev. …1. 24. one and the same: even the ordinance of God, appoynted for the punishing of them that do evill, and for the defence and comfort of them that do well. So that although a Christian do and cannot but differ from an Heathē as towthing the faith and religion they professe: yet as towching the nature and authority of Magistracy they differ not. Neyther hath the one of them any more power then the other, in religion to erect any other faith, Ministery, worship, or constitution of a Church, then God himself who is King of Kings hath ordeyned: Or if they do, we are not bound to obey eyther of them thereyn: but alwayes to remember that we must yeeld obedience to Magistrates (whether Christian or Heathen) onelyonly in the Lord. and never against the LOrd, Constantine the Emperour had no greater nor other power and authority of Magistracy when he became a Christian, then he had before when he was an Heathen: Neyther might he now any more thē before adde to, diminish, or alter the Lawes and ordinances of IEsus Christ. The same may be said of all others likewise. For the receyving and profession of the faith of Christ giveth not to Princes and Rulers any power to refuse chaunge or break his Lawes and ordinances, which he as Lord and head of his Church hath commaunded to be receyved therein: but it ratheraPsal. 2. 10. 11. 12. Esa. 49. 23. and 60. 3. 2 Chron. 29 and 30. and 31. and 34. and 35. cap. Revel. 21. 24. byndeth them so much the more, both themselves in theyr own persons to obey and by theyr authority to commaund and draw theyr subiects also to yeeld obedience to the Lord Iesus in his own ordinance, and no other.

Read the historyes of the Kings of Iudah professing the faith of God: and see if theyr authority of Magistracy gave them power any way to chaunge the religion and worship of God appoynted by him for his Church at that tyme: And whether both they and theyr people were not bound to submit vntounto it, and no other. Insomuch as whenbAs Vzziah, Achaz, Manesseh, &c. 2 Chrō. 26. and 28. and 33. cap. any of them attempted or did otherwise, they were sharply reproved and grievously punished from the Lord. And contrarily, when cAs Asa, Iehoscha. phat, Hezekiah, losiah, &c. 2 Chro. 15. & 17. & 19. & 20. & 29. & 30. & 31. & 32 & 34 & 35. cap.they obeyed the voyce of the Lord and followed his Lawes and commaundements given by Moses, then did they and theyr kingdomes prosper through the blessing of God. The same is to be brought and said of Christian Princes and Magistrates at this day: Yea rather more of these then of the other, inasmuch as Christ IEsusdHeb. 3. 1. 2. 3. the Apostle and high Priest of our profession hath ben faithfull to him that appoynted him, even as was Moses in all his house: and being the Sonne is covnted worthy of more honour the Moses the servant. Neyther is it or can be any disparagement hindrance or dishonour to Princes and Potentates for themselves and theyr people to be subiect to the Sonne of God and his ordinances, who is King of kings and Lord of Lords, set at the right hād of God the Father, having all power given him in heavē and in earth: But it is and will be theyr greatest honour and benefit both in this life and in that which is to come: even as theyr disobedience is and will be the cōtrary: as it isePsal 2. 10. 11. 12. writtē, And now ô Kings be vvise, receyv instruction ye Iudges of the earth: Serve the Lord in feare, and reioyce in trembling: Kisse the Sonne, least he be angry and ye perish in the vvay vvhen his vvrath shall burne but a litle: Blessed are all that trust in him.

Thus have we seen the weaknes likewise of this last reason alledged by Mr H. for defence of his seeking and taking ordination at the Prelates hāds. By discussing whereof appeareth also, that who so wil minister in the Church the holy things of GOD, must be carefull to have such entrance and calling thereto as he hath appoynted in his word: And that otherwise to do, though it were vponupon the commaundement and appoyntment of all the Princes of the earth, cannot but be sinne against the Lord, who hathfDeut. 12. 32. said, Whatsoever I commaund you take heed you do it, thou shalt put nothing thereto nor take ought therefrom: And contrary to that strait charge of the Apostle to Timothy and all Ministers of the Gospell (towthing the Lawes ād ordināces given by Christ to his Church) g1 Tim. 6. 13—16.saying, I charge thee in the sight of God vvho quickneth all things, and before Iesus Christ vvhichwhich vnderunder Pontius Pilate vvitnessed a good confession, that thou keep this commaundement vvithout spot and vnblameable, vntill the appearing of our Lord IEsus Christ: Which in due tyme he vvill shovv that is blessed and Prince onelyonly, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

And here now would we end this writing, but that it is needfull in a word to poynt at some other particulars mentioned by Mr H. in this last reason.

1 One is, that speaking of the ordination he took from the Prelates, he saith here he looked not so much vntounto the Man as to the Lavv: And yet in his second reason before would have vsus beleev, he looked to the Man, that is, to the Bishop as being a Minister and preacher of the Gospell, as there he alledgeth. Thus still he forgetteth himself.

2. Another is, that having before in his first reason confessed that the Prelates by the Lavv of GOD are not capable of this povver to ordeyne Ministers vvhichwhich is committed vntounto them by Act of Parliament, yet here he saith he came vntounto them for it, regarding vvith reverence the Lavv and Christian Magistrate. Now how will he ever perswade this, that he could regard vvith reverence the Lavv and Christian Magistrate, when by his own confession it seemeth he regard not with reverence the Lavv of GOD and Christ himself? ThehPro. 8. 15. 16. Rom 13. 1—5. 1 Pet. 2. 13. vvith Act. 4. 19. 1 Sam. 22 17. Mat. 22. due reverence and obedience of the Magistrate doth and cānot but depend vponupon the reverence ād obedience of God by whom Princes raigne, ād for whom they are to be obeyed, not for wrath onelyonly but for conscience sake. Where this therefore is wanting, how can the other rightly be had that dependeth vponupon it? But of this ynough hath ben sayd already. OnelyOnly mark still his forgetfulnes and contradiction of himself.

3. Thirdly, where he graunteth, the Prelates have theyr power and authority by Act of Parliament (Yea such power and authority as by the Lavv of God they are not capable of): it may appeare that themselves see this Prelacy and authority thereof to be no ordinance of Iesus Christ, but an humane treature, the ordinance and constitution of Man. Let them therefore as long as they will plead for it, and for theyr Ministery receyved from and executed vnderunder it: Yet in the end will be verifyed of it, as of all other the inventions of men in Gods worship, that which Christ hath long synce foretold concerning them alliMat. 15. 13. saying, Alplanting vvhichwhich my heavenly Father hath not planted, shalbe rooted vp.

4. Finally, where he sayth that vvithout the Magistrates liking and allovvance they cannot be admitted to the Ministery in peace; he now at length plainely bewrayeth what it is indeed that moveth them to receyv and joyne vntounto another Ministery and worship then the Lord Iesus hath ordeyned, and so to stand in transgression against him and his holy ordinances: even the same thing, that moved the … teachers to … circumcision among the Gentiles that had receyved the Gospell, which the ApostlekGal. 6. 12. sayth was, onelyonly because they vvould not suffer persecution for the crosse Christ: but would rather have the peace of the world though with brea…h of Christs ordinance, then the afflictions of the Gospell by yeelding obedience therevnto against the liking and allowā …e of men Moses was otherwise mynded, wholHeb. 11. 24. 25. 26. chuse rather to beare the rebuke of Christ ād to suffer adversity with the people of God, then to enioy the treasures of Egypt or pleasures of sinne for a season: And the Apostles likewise, whomAct. 5. 40 41. vvith 4. 18. 19. 20. refusing to obey the rulers of Ierusalem that commaunded them not to preach in the Name of Iesus, and being therefore beat and …courged, yet were glad and rejoyced that they were counted worthy to suffer rebuke for his Name: Yea and Christ himself, whonHeb. 2. 10. being Prince of our salvation was consecrate through afflictions: and requireth likewise of all that will be followers of him,oMar. 8. 34. saying, Whosoever will follow me, let him forshake himself and take vp his crosse and follow me. And thus have the servants of GOD through his grace and power ben mynded and walked in all ages: howsoever these men now would seem to have found a nearer and more easy way to the Kingdome of heaven. But let them not deceyv themselves: Whatsoever they do or may think to the contrary, certayne it is as Christ hathpMat. 7. 14. Luk. 13. 24. said, that the gate is strait and the vvay narrovv that leadeth vntounto life, and fevv there be that fynd it.

Yet do we not deny neyther, but it is to be accounted an happyqEsa. 49. 23 Act. 9. 31. 1 Tim. 2, 1. 2 vvith Mat. 28. 20. benefit and greatly to be desired, that the Church and people of God may have rest ād be suffred to lead a godly life in peace and quyetnes: keping the faith, order, commaundements and statutes which our Lord Iesus hath given and appoynted to his Church. But if this cannot be had in peace without persecution, yetrPsal. 119 23. 59. 60. 6. 1 Tim. 6. 13 14 vvith 2 Tim. 2. 3. 12. 1 Thes. 1. 6. Rom. 8. 17. 18. 35—39. Rev. 2. 10. ād 14. 12. 13. must we not therefore refuse or turne from the way and commaundement of Christ, but set our feet therein notwithstanding, and alway be ready to walk through the midst of afflictions with ioy in the holy Ghost, by the grace and assistance of Christ our Lord: Knowing that if we suffer vvith him, vve shall also raigne vvith him. For the momentane lightnes of our affliction causeth vntounto vsus a far most excellent eternall waight of glory, while we look not on the things which are seen, but on the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen be tēporary, but the things which are not seen be eternall. 2 Cor. 4. 17. 18.

To God be prayse and glory for ever.

Amen.

1595.

Rev. 14. 9. 10. 11. 12.

If any man worship the beast, and his image, and receyv his mark in his forehead or on his hand, the same shall drink of the wyne of the wrath of God, &c.

Here is the pacience of the Saints: here are they that keep the commaundements of God and the faith of IEsus.