Inquiry and Answer of Thomas Whites Discovery of Brownism, Part 1 · Subpart 2
Of the second head of Th… White his Treatise.
HItherto of the first …ead of his …, …hat he saith we cut of from being true Curches in our account, all the Churches of Christ that ever have ben since the Apostles dayes, or now are, y… and our selue… also, His proof of all this, he would fetch, partly from the description aforesaid, partly from a … Treatise entituled, A true description out of the word of God, of the visible Church. His instances are three, 1. of the Chruches that hauehave ben since the Apostles dayes; 2. of the Churches that now are; 3. & of our selues. Touching which (omitting that I hauehave answered before to his former exception, which may here agayn be remembred, though I repeat it not) let the Reader now first obserue and marke it well, how he saith, the Churches that hauehave ben since the Apostles dayes, and not, the Churches that were in their dayes. Beli… … that th… … said cutteth not them of: And if not them, then not any other at all. For that which made them to be true visible Churches, doth and must make all other so to be, to the end of the world, namely, the calling of Christ and their mutuall covenant and communion in his Gospell: as we hauehave shewed before out of the Scriptures. Wherevpon I reason thus:
If the description aforesaid cut not of the Primitive Churches planted by the Apostles, from being true visible Churches of Christ; then doth it not cut of any other which since that tyme hauehave bene, are, or shalbe to the end of the world:
But the former is true: Therefore the latter.
The Proposition is vndenyable, from the Scriptures and demonstration aforesaid. It is one and the same thing that giveth being to all true visible Churches of Chr…t. That which gave being to the Churches of Ierusalem, Antioch, Rome &c. gaue also being to the Churches of Galatia, Corinth, Ephesus, &c. notwithstanding the corruptions they fell into. And that which then gave being to them, giveth being to all that hauehave ben since, or ever shalbe. The Church is the body of Christ, and every one members for their part; He is th… … …f the body, & from him doth all the life & power thereof p…oceed: He is not devided.
The Assumption is as certa…ne, … will appear…, in that the Primitive Churches planted by the Apostles, were companies of faithfull people, by the word of God called out and separated from the world and the false vvayes thereof, gathered and ioyned together in fellovvship of the Gospell, by a voluntary profession of the faith and obedience of Christ. This is proved by the Acts of the Apostles and their Epistles throughout. And if this man, or his Maisters of whome he learned to object against this description, do deny it (as by their exceptions & reasons is implyed) may not we justly returne vntounto them, that which vnjustly they would impute vntounto vsus, and say, Are not they then the blasphemers of the Christians and their Churches? Or is not this to robbe Christ of his honour? Or may not that saying be verifyed of themselues, He that despiseth his neighbour is a foole. Pro. 11.12.
But let vsus come to his proof concerning the Churches spoken of by himself. Thus he concludeth it:
If no Church that hath bene since the Apostles dayes or novv is that we read of▪ be separate from all false vvayes in their account▪ then by this description and in tho… … Churches: But the former is true: Therefore the latter.
Answ. The whole Sillogisme fayleth, as he hath propounded it. In the Proposition or first … tha… which in the description is particularly specified and needfull alway to be observed (namely, to be companies by the word of God called out from the world and false wayes thereof, gathered and ioyned together in fellowship of the Gospell &c. Wherfore his Proposition is not so vndenyable as h… suppos…th from tha… description. And when these particulars which now he hath omitt…d be … to be implyed, yet then also by further following of …he Assumptiō may there be occasion to obserue more concerning it. And for the Assuption it self or second part of the Reason, it must needs fayle in like maner, because of that omitted in the Proposition aforesaid. His reason therefore (if he would hauehave reasoned soundly and to the purpose) should hauehave bene framed thus:
If no Church that hath bene since the Apostles dayes or now is that we read of, be in their account, by the word of God called out and separated from the world and the false wayes thereof, gathered and ioyned together in fellowship of the Gospell, by voluntarie profession of the faith and obedience of Christ, then by his description and in their account must they be no true Churches: But the former is true: Therefore the latter.
Answ. 1. The very propounding of the Reason thus, sheweth the weaknes of it. 2. And what if we would not be drawen to speak of the Churches since, but onelyonly of them that were in the Apostles dayes: keeping onelyonly to the word of God and that which is recorded therein? If they cannot by it or the example of those Churches disproue our testimony, what would it help them or hurt vsus, if we answered them no further? 3. Yet to answer this Reason notwithstanding, and to omit the Proposition, as is aforesaid: I requier proof of the Assumption, because all that he hath brought for confirmation of it, doth not yet proue it: as will appeare by discussing his allegations, concerning the Churches he speaketh of, 1. that were then; 2. that now are; 3. and our selues.
For the first, viz, the Churches heretofore since the Apostles dayes, all that he saith is that we account the very saying of the Lords Prayer as a prayer to be a false way, which was vsed from the Apostles age &c.
Ans. 1. Is this all he can alledge against vsus concerning those Churches & tymes? Others … would perswade they have it by … also of those w…ite…s, that Archbishops, Primates, Metropolitans, Archdeacons, stinted formes of prayer, the vse of the signe of the crosse, and a number of such like things hauehave ben from the Apostles age. Should we therefore believe them herein? And how cometh it that this Antiquarie hath never a word of all these for those tymes? Is it that he thinketh we hold them not now for false wayes of governing the Church and worshipping the Lord? Or is it not in deed because the Hypocrite would not yet be seen to speak for these, and would notwithstanding so diss…mble the matter, as yet may please all sorts that are against vsus?
2. To speake of that he alledgeth, admitting all he saith here to be true, yet is not the Assumption thereby proued. For in all true Churches, the calling of Christ and the Churches covenant to obey the Gospell bindes them from all errour and false wayes: notwithstanding that both the members and the whole body be subject to fall into them from tyme to tyme, while we live here on earth. If then this saying of the Lords prayer as a prayer be a false way of worshipping God, it was excluded by their calling and fellowship in the Gospell: howsoever they fell into the vse of it. If it be not a false way, then were it but our errour so to think, which we were also to corrrect, & the description notwithstanding still should stand good. Now what our judgement is concerning the right vse of that forme of prayer, together with our reasons out of the Scripture thereabout, we hauehave often shewed and published heretofore, in divers treatises, which till they be answered and refuted, I shall not need here to repeat them, or to insist any further vponupon that matter. OnelyOnly thus much now, If the vsing of the Lords prayer as a prayer, be a part of the worship of God appointed by Christ, then did the Apostles in the planting of the Primitive Churches teach them so to vse it: For they were inioyned by Christ to teach whatsoever he commaunded them, and so they did: Mat. 28.20. with Act. 2.42. and 4.24—31. and 20.27. 1 Cor. 11.23. But that they taught to vse it thus, none can shew eyther in their Acts, or in their Epistles. And Tertullian saith, (if they regard his testimony) *Lib. de Monogam.Scriptura negat quod non notat: The Scripture denyeth that which it noteth not. This man therefore and such as do so hold, that the Lords prayer is to be vsed as a prayer, are bound to shew by the Scriptures that the Apostles did teach the first Churches thus to vse it: vnles they would (with the Papists) argue the Scripture of imperfection, or the Apostles of vnfaithfulnes.
3. The distinction of faulty and false is here also to be observed. True Churches may be faulty in sundry things (as those of Asia, Corinth &c. and yet not straightway therefore be false Churches. True Prophets may be faulty in divers things (as Ieremiah, Ionah, &c.) and yet they be no false Prophets. True worshippers of God may be faulty in their worship many wayes (as may be seen in Corinth, Colosse, &c.) and yet not therefore be false worshippers. By which examples also may appeare, both what difference is between false and faulty, and how needfull it is alwayes in these cases to be duly regarded.
4. His proof, that the Lords prayer was vsed as a Prayer from the Apostles age, is out of Tertullian whose words be these:Tertul. lib. de Orat. Quoniam Dominus prospector humanarum necessitatū seorsum post traditam orandi disciplinam, Petite inquit & accipietis, & sunt quae petantur pro circumstantia cuius que , praemissa legitima & ordinaria oratione quasi fundamento, accidentium ius est desideriorum, ius est superstruendi extriusecus petitiones: Cum memoria tamen praeceptorum, ne quantum a praeceptis, tantum ab auribus Dei longè simus. Because the Lord that seeth mans necessities did apart after the doctrine of prayer delivered say, Ask & ye shall receive, and there be things to be asked according to the circumstance of every one, the lawfull and ordinary prayer being premised as a foundation, we may for the desires that fall out, we may from without it build therevpon our petitions, yet with remēbrance of the things cōmaunded, least we be as far frō the eares of the Lord as from his commaundements. Towching this testimony (if it were a thing to be stood vponupon in this case) many things might be excepted. 1. Tertullian lived about 200 yeares after the Apostles dayes. 2. Many things were held lawfull & ordinarily vsed in his tyme, which were not at all in the Apostles dayes: As, prayer with cloakes put off, and hands washed; signing with the crosse, and annoynting with oyle after Baptisme; Godfathers and Godmothers; mixing of water with wine in the Lords supper; oblations for the dead; Lenten fast; holy water &c. 3. He also followed & was infected with divers errors, which … judgement, even in his owne tyme reproved and rejected: As, the Iewish errour of the Chiliastes, that the godly shall hauehave a pleasant life on earth, a thousand yeares before the end of the world: Also, that the Angels fell for lust of women; That Noah, Abraham, and others of those tymes were righteous by the righteousnes of the Law of nature: Whither also may be referred his errors about Freewill, Satisfaction for sinnes, superstitious Fasts & heresies of Montanus, &c. Not to speak how from his exposition of the Lords Prayer (even in this book here alledged) the Papists would gather proof for their heresie of Transubstantiation, and the Lutherans of Consubstantiation. Againe, he disallowed sundry things, which were approued thē by others according to the truth: As, the Baptisme of children, second mariages; fleing in tyme of persecution &c. 4. But if they think there be such weight in Tertulliās testimony, why do they thē at their preaching vse the Lords prayer after their owne prayers, when as Tertullian saith it vvas first premised as a foundation vvherevpon petitions from out of it might be built? Which (admitting the vse of it, yet) sheweth a quite different vsing of it then, from that which now is had. And let it here be noted by the way, that Tertullian doth often in that book call it a forme & doctrine of prayer, and sheweth that Christ hath not tyed vsus to the vse of those words, but thereon to build our petitions as vponupon a foundation, according to the need & occasion of eueryevery one, following his precepts. Why also do they not hear…en to Tertullian, when in the same book he saith, *Tertull. Lib. de orat.Such things are iustly to be charged with vanity, as are done without authority of any precept eyther of the Lord or of the Apostles: And when other where he saithaLib. de praescript. aduersus haeret. The Apostles did faithfully deliver to the nations the discipline they received of Christ: And, bLib. de virgin. veland.that no continuance of times, or supportation of persons can preiudice the truth? If they wil belieue Tertulliā, their book of cōmon prayer, their Prelacy, Priesthood, crosse, surplice, and the like reteyned among them, may justly be charged with vanity, as being never appoynted by the Lord or his Apostles. Neither can al their gloses perswade that ever they came from Christ, seing the Apostles did not deliver them to the nations, as appeareth by their writings. Nor is it material, whatsoever continuance of tymes they pretend, or supportation of persons they may have. None can preiudice the truth, as Tertullian sayth. And for the poynt in hand except they can shew that the Apostles did teach to vse the Lords prayer as a prayer, it is neither the continuance of tymes, nor the supportation of any persons, be they Old writers or Churches, that can be admitted for a sufficient warrant, even by Tertullians owne testimonie.
For the Churches that now are, we also refer it to our dealing with them. In our writings wee hauehave often signified our esteeming of them for true Churches: and in our walking towards them wee hauehave alwaies shewed it. And this more particularly, as we have had more special occasion, in our dealing with the Dutch & French Churches of this City. When some of their members hauehave left them, because of their corruptions, and come to joyne themselues vntounto vsus, we hauehave required such first to deale with them, as with true Churches alway should be done, namely, to advertise the Elders first, and then the whole body of the Church whereof they were (if they might be suffered) of the corruptions, for which they thought to leaue them. Which we require not of such as come vntounto vsus from any false Church. Also, when some of our Church have gone vntounto them, and declined from the truth which they professed with vsus, vntounto their corruptions, we hauehave had dealing thereabout with the Elders both of the Dutch and French Churches of this towne, that were by the rest of their Elderships deputed therevnto, before we would proceed with the parties for this their revolt and transgression. And when the Dutch Church here received such to be members of them, as our Church excommunicated for their sinnes, we also admonished their Elders hereof, desiring that by themselves or by vsus knowledg of these things might be given to the whole body of their Church. Which course of dealing we vse not with any false Church or the Ministers thereof. But to insert here in particular the dealing that hath passed between vsus & them of this towne,Confess. with Mr Iun. letters pag. 54. would be to long: & their corruptions whereabout we have dealt with them, are already published. By which and this that hath here bene said, let the Reader judg, wheth…r we hauehave not cause to put differēce between them & the other Churches of these countries not so dealt withal.
For not hearing of them in other of their Congregations in these countreys, this I answer: That seeing by the mercy of God we hauehave seen and forsaken the corruptions yet remayning in the publick ministration and condition of these Churches (if they be al like to them of this city) we therefore cannot partake with them in such case, without declining and apostasy from the truth which we hauehave our selues already received and professed. This also I speak of the members of our Church so walking and witnessing as is aforesaid, and not of the members of their owne Churches, whose duty I think it is, before they may leaue them for their corruptions, first to signify them vntounto them, and by al good meanes to seek the redresse therof among them, as being members of the same body with them. Which I take also to be the duty of all such, as hauehave knowledge of their corruptions, and being not of them, yet would cōmunicate with them in their publick administration. And this for true Churches. But as for any false, these are not the duties or rules prescribed for them, but other of a far differing nature, namely, when once we see their abhominations, to separate from them without delay, and to witnesse against them even vntounto death. The further declaration whereof with confirmation from the Scriptures, the Reader may have in divers of our Treatises already published about our cause. As in the Refut of Mr. Giff. In the Answ. to Mr. A.H. pag. 61. &c.
But he provoketh me yet further, and saith, If he can, let him name any one Church on the face of the earth now, that holdeth not false waies, yea even in their constitution in their account. Although I might answer as before, that the calling of Christ and the Churches covenant to walk in the faith of his Gospell excludeth al false wayes in all true Churches (whether as yet seen or vnseen) and therfore in the Reformed Churches so acknowledged by vsus: yet because he presseth me so earnestly to name but any one Church, on the face of the earth, I wil giuegive the instance, of that Church in the west parts of England whereof himself was a joyned member, when he separated from the Church of England, and held the same faith with them and vsus, from which he is now apostate. And let him now name any false way holden by them in their constitution in our account.
Of the distinction to be observed between faulty & false worship, I hauehave spoken *pag 23.here before. As also, of his blaspheming the Christians and their Churches, despising neighbours, and robbing Christ himself of his honour. And now by that which hath ben said, let the Reader obserue how true it is in himself, that after al his earnest endevour not alone to wound but even to kill others (if he could) he hath turned the poynt of his weapon into his owne bowels. Which will also yet further appeare in that which followeth, in his particular objection against the Church whereof we are our selues, which he saith is not agreable to our description aforesaid.
Against our selues, the proof he bringeth is this that he saith, vve are not separate from al open offenders, and all false vvayes: and to shew this, he produceth many particular persons and matters. I answer: admitting al he saith against vsus both the generall and particulars were true, yet notwithstanding the description aforesaid should stand good, and our Church also agreable therevnto. For this yet should be the errour of our practise, not of our covenant or calling in Christ: According to which we are alway to esteem or Churches, as we hauehave …hewed before. Otherwise to reason as this man doth against vsus, were to condemne those Churches of Asia, Galatia, Corinth, and all that ever hauehave bene from the beginning to this day.
But to come to the particulars, his first allegation is, that he saith we reteyne among vsus open offenders: and for instance the first he nameth is one Cast. noted publikly in our meeting for cousonage &c. A man that is of the Church of England, and so was a good while before this book of Whites was published. Sometyme in deed he lived among vsus here, but after a while began to be so noted and dealt with, as fynding the Church to be no harbour for him (but that he must walk better, or be cast out from among vsus) he returned to England, where he knew he might be reteyned in that Church, and where Th. White his fellow will (no doubt) brook him well ynough. But further he saith, the Elders here defended that he ought not to be publiklie dealt withall for it, because it was not orderly made publik. Indeed we hold, that private sins should privatly be dealt with, & if any bring in publick without private dealing going before (according to the rule given by Christ, Math, 18.15.16.) we suffer it not, but rebuke them that so walk. Wherevpon this White himself being by one of the brethren reproved for so dealing with the party aforesaid,Mr R. Ia. it seemeth still to stick on his stomack: and the more, because afterward vponupon speach thereof my self with the rest of the Elders signifyed our dislike of such disorderly and evill walking. Touching his repentance, such as were then present do testify that he shewed it for such things as could be proved against him, & in other things stood vponupon his clearing. But whatsoever this White hath w…itten here against him, now that he is returned to the Church of Englād, whither himself also is revolted, the point of his weapon (if there be any sharpnes in it) is turned into his owne▪ and that Churches bowels.
The same falleth out in his next instance about adultery. For that man also is declined to the Church of England, and there now liveth. Thus still is he snared in his owne wordes. But yet further see how he dealeth here in that which followeth. He saith, R.B. was publickly accused in our meeting, for creeping in at a window to come to bed to another mans wife. That this is false, is testified by such as were present at the meeting spoken of, & that he did not creep in at a window so to do, we heare is testifyed even by themselves from whom the speach of these things did first proceed.
Which being so, why or how should wee deale vvith him publickly thereabout? And touching the man spoken of, it is well knowen that as he hath sinned, so he hath also repented: having therein before him the example of David in Israel. VVhere if VVhite had lived, as he hath done among vsus, would it not have bene counted horrible (to vse his own word) so to have dealt with them, as he hath dealt with vsus?
His next instance is of one of our Elders, Mr St. against whom he objecteth in particular three things; The first, filthynes; and of this (to vtter his malice the more) he speaketh fower tymes in a few leaves together, sometymes vnderunder the termes of filthynes with his wives daughter, sometymes of vncleannes, sometymes of incest. For which Mr. St. hath called him before the Magistrates here, for a sclaunderer, desiring that proof may be brought, or satisfaction made according to justice. The second is, supporting vncleannes in a woman a member of our Church. The woman he hath named *Whites disco. p. 7. in the margent.before to be Iud. Hol. For which also she hath called him before the Magistrates of this ci… where we live. The third is, refusing to pray vvith his ovvn vvif… a member likevvise of the same Church. Towchi…g which he saith, h… is perswaded such cases may and do sometimes fall out between man and wife, as while …he things so continew between them, they may lawfully absteyne from prayer the one with the other, vsing all good meanes within their own walles to be reconciled together, and to live so each with other as their prayers may not be interrupted: And that he hath not refused to pray with his wife, but in such case and maner. These are the particulars objected, after which a generall is annexed of vvorse cariage then this, often complayned of by his vvife & committed by him, which the man saith he is ashamed to mētiō. But as he nameth not the thing so neither doth he mention the persons to whome she hath complayned thereof. And if there were not some other cause in it, who can think that he is ashamed to mention any thing, that hath a forehead to write and deale so shamefully as he hath done?
Towching myne ovvn knovvledg and dealing about these things (to speak of no other now) this Th. VVhites wife can testify what I did therin a good while since, whereof she hath particular knowledg, and which by this dealing of his I am now constrayned to publish. As I remenber, about some five yeares since, there came vntounto me a brother of the Church yet living, and told me with great heavines how he heard that Mr St. had lyen vvith his vvives daughter, A.P.and that the matter should be heard publikly in the Church. I told him, this was the first tyme I heard it, & inquired who it was that reported it to him: which he told me: Then I went my self & inquired from one to another of whom they had it, til by degrees it was brought to Rose Ph. (now the wife of this Th. White) to whom when I came, she did for some things which she had spoken name her authors of whom she heard them, but for this, could name none at all, but confess…d it vvas her ovvne addition: and then shewed great sorrow and repentance for her so doing. Now how she was rebuked for this her evill dealing at that tyme, I need not here to write: But leaving the Reader to lay this dealing of hers then, and this of her husbands now together, and accordingly to esteem thereof: I wil proceed to the next instances here alledged.
They are of Iud. Hol. Tho. Can. Ia. Ioh. &c. whome he mentioneth here by name to be open offenders, but sheweth not how or wherein. Of Iud. Hol. I wrote before, how she hath called him before the Magistrates hereabout. And so hath Iacob Ioh: a man that hath laid downe his life for the Name of Christ, being for his witnesse thereof condemned to death,At Northampton. and brought to the place of execution, & then reprived, & since …ent away out of the Lād as banished. And touching Tho: Ca. himself that here findeth fault for reteyning him as being an open offender, doth afterward in a postscript at ‡Whites discov. pag 26.the end of his book, fynd fault with the casting of him out, as being a man penitent, and therefore not so to be dealt withall, but still to be reteyned, according to Christs rule, Mat. 18.22. Luc. 17.4. By his owne confession therefore, such as repent of their sinnes, are to be reteyned in the Church, and not now to be counted for open offenders. VVhat meaneth he then thus to write of any persons repenting of their sinnes, as if while such were reteyned, the Church were not separate from open offenders; or they vnfit members for the fellowship thereof.
But if all these things were as he saith, yet are they not in our constitution, and therefore not of weight against the description aforesaid. VVhichWhich himself perceiving, attempteth therefore otherwise to prove that even in the constitution of our Church we hold false wayes. VVhere note by the way, how himself yeeldeth that the fo… mer evils which he hath objected, are not in our constitution. And as not they, so neyther any other. For (as we hauehave said, and are constreyned often to repeat it) the calling of Christ and our covenant, which is to obey the faith of the Gospell, excludeth all evill & false wayes whatsoever. Yet let vsus consider the particulars which here he hath alledged
The first is, that he saith we hold the Lords prayer is not to be vsed as a prayer, contrary to Christs expresse cōmaundement, which is neyther against reason nor proportion of faith. I answer, if it be Christs commaundement so to vse it, then did the Apostles to whom it was given, both so vse it themselves, and teach others likewise to do. Neyther of which can be shewed. Then ought we alwayes whensoever we pray, to vse this for our prayer, seing Christs expresse commaundement is, When ye pray, say, Our Father &c. And so the Apostles and Christians in all ages hauehave sinned, when they prayed and said it not. Yea and these men themselues do aboue all other transgresse herein, who pray many tymes without vsing of it, and yet think it to be Christs expresse commaundement, which is neyther against reason nor proportion of faith. Yet also when they shall hauehave considered, that it conteyneth all things, whatsoever from the beginning of the world to the end thereof hauehave bene or can be asked aright by any, it would be knowen with what reason or proportion of faith any particular person or Church can so vse it as they speak, without speciall explication and application of the severall heads to them selues and their present occasions.
Secondly, he saith our opinion is contrary to the tenour of the words, having the forme of a prayer in all things, as Our Father, give vsus, and Amen annexed in the end, vvhichwhich shevves that they are petitions not positions or rules vvhichwhich are set dovvn in an other forme, Mat. 7.7. & 21.22. 1 Ioh. 5.14. Ansvv. If it be intended by the tenour of the words having the forme of a prayer, that it should be so vsed: then besides the answers already made, I ask, VVhether we should vse it, as it is set downe by Mathevv, or by Luke. For Luke doth not onelyonly vary from Mathevv in divers words, but also omitteth the whole Conclusion, yea and the word Amen, which is here alledged for a proof that it is so to be vsed as is aforesaid. But in deed other vse may be made (then these men do) of the propounding it thus by way of petitions rather then of positions or rules, as in other places is done: Namely, that Christ hereby would shew the right maner of praying vntounto God, that we may with confidence come and speak vntounto him in our prayers, propoūding our requests holily, carefully, reverendly, without babling, according to our severall occasions &c. And so meeteth with the manifold errours that in the vse of prayer hauehave crept into the world: as may be seen among the Papists, Neutral-Protestants, Anabaptists, Adamians, Euchetians, and other hereticks Idolaters superstitious and ignorant people: some thinking that we should not our selues come directly to God in prayer, but vse the mediation of some Saints or Angels &c. others, that reading on a book is prayer to God, though it be of other mens words prescribed vntounto vsus; others, that we should repeat the same things over againe and agayne; others, that we should vse sighs without words; others, that we should not pray vntounto God at all, seing he knoweth what we need; and others, that we should ever be praying, giving no place eyther to other exercises of religion, or to any labour of the hands, &c. All which and the like heresies, and abuses of the heavenly and most comfortable vse of prayer, Christ hath prevented and condemned by this his direction for prayer, propounded after the forme and maner aforesaid.
3. Thirdly, he saith our opiniō is contrary to the vse of al Christians, that we read of, as before out of Tertullian and others may be alleadged. Answ. Then is it contrary to the vse of the Apostles and Primitive Churches of whom we read in the Scriptures. Which if any could shew, that alone would end the question: whereas the vse & testimony of any other persons Churches or ages cannot do it: As Tertullian himself sheweth when he saith,Contra Marcion. lib. 4. c. 5. That is truest which is first, that is first which is from the beginning, that is from the beginning which is from the Apostles. But now admitting his proofs were good, that the Lords prayer (as it is called) were to be vsed as a prayer, yet were it then further needfull to be knowen, whether it be Christs cōmaundement that we should vse it for our prayer alone by it self, or that we should ioyne it with other prayers conceived by our selues withall. If he say, we should vse it alone, his owne testimony out of Tertullian (besides their own practise) is against him, who saith, that it being premised as a foundation, Lib. de Orat.other petitions may be built there vpō. And if he say, we should ioyne it with the other prayers conceived by our selues, the practise and testimony of the Apostles is against him. For which see, Mat. 8.25. Act. 1.24.25. and 4.24—30. Phil. 1.3.4.9.10.11. & 4.6. 1 Thess. 5.17.18.19.23.
2. The second thing is, that he saith we hold it not lawfull for the innocent parties, to reteyne the offender, as the wife her husband, or the husband his wife, if eyther partie hauehave committed adultery, no though the innocent party vponupon the others repentance, forgiving the others sinne, be desirous still to live vvith the other party in the mariage covenant as before, but hauehave excommunicated the parties innocent for so doing. This in deed we hauehave held (the most of vsus) heretofore: and some of vsus are ‡Yet resting with peace in their difference of iudgment therabout.so perswaded still. And while we were generally so mynded, we also held it our duty accordingly to walk, taking the innocent partie that reteyned such offenders, though vponupon their repentance, yet to be defiled and to liue in sinne with them, as *1 Cor. 6.16.coupling themselues with an harlot, But since vponupon further consideration of this question, discussing it among our selves, when we could not fynde divorce in the Scriptures any where commaunded, but*Mat. 19.permitted onelyonly; and that such offenders repenting thereof, are not to be reputed in that case of harlots, but to be †1 Cor. 6.9.11.washed from their sinne & justifyed in Iesus Christ: we have vponupon these and other like reasons altered our former judgement, and now hauehave thus observed and agreed thus concerning this matter, That where the Magistrates inflict not death vponupon such offenders (as by the law of God they should) it is in the liberty and power of the innocent party, eyther for that crime to put away the offender, or vponupon their repentance to reteyne them: But this with these cautions, 1. So as themselues were no meanes or cause of the others so transgressing. 2. That they be no nourishers of them in the like for tyme to come. 3. That this remission and acceptance of the offender by the innocent party be done before sufficient winesses. 4. That this also (as the mariage at the first) be alway in the Lord. And for the Churches & the Ministers dutie therein, that it is onelyonly to teach and require of them repentance, after the example of Christ, Ioh. 8.10.11. or els to see them cast out of the Church, according to the Apostles doctrine, 1 Cor. 5.11.12.13. This is that which now the most of vsus do think concerning this question: being notwithstanding ready to heare, if any can shew vsus better frō the word of God, which is the ground and rule of the constitution of our Church.
Touching the case and excommunication of H. C. and E. H. his wife (of which he speaketh both here and afterward againe) how will he prove the persons spoken of to be repentant, when as the one of them denyed the fact, which she had before confessed to two of the brethren; & the other in the iudgment of the Church shewed himself vnrepentant many wayes, which I will not here mention. And if he do not shew them to hauehave repented, how hath he proved that for which he alledged them? Besides that there were also other causes for which they were excommunicated.
As for that which he saith, divers of vsus have accused themselues of adultery that so they might be ridde of their wives: this also he should have proved, and not onelyonly hauehave said it. For we know that the persons whome he nameth (W. H. and T. C.) hauehave said and avouched earnestly, that they did it not to that end, but being perswaded that they ought not to continue with their wiues, having by their adulterie broken the bond of mariage between them. Besides, if by him or any it could be proved so to be as he saith, he knoweth we would not beare with such wickednes, but deale with them according to their demerit: howsoever without all shame he do thus abuse vsus.
And here by the way let me a little note this mans crossing of himself, and bad dealing against vsus still. Before in the beginning of his book, he imputed vntounto vsus abounding with adulteries, and that above others, as if it were a sinne common and borne withall among vsus, and this also more then among others. Yet here now his objectiō against vsus, about the case of adultery, is such, as any may see he thinketh we hauehave ben too severe therein, and that aboue others. What this our opinion was, is shewed before. Wherein although we have chaunged our iudgment, as is aforesaid: yet even this particular sheweth how greatly we hauehave alway detested that sinne, and how contrary this White is to himself, that he might by any meanes deale wretchedly against vsus.
3. The third thing is, that he saith we hauehave altered many things which we held in our constitution, as among other, that it was not lawfull for Apostates to beare office. He saith, many things, yet nameth but one. Towching which I might answer, that although many of vsus did in deed so take it, yet it was not here so generally received by all as he seemeth to suppose, because that as there was divers times occasiō of question about it, there were of the brethren that shewed themselues to be diversely mynded: but at length the matter being often and much vrged, we did thus agree about it, That we think it not meet to chuse such into office as hauehave before tyme declyned frō the truth, without good caution first had thereabout: As namely, 1. That there be consideration had both of the nature of the thing done, & of the quality of the person, & of the estate of the Church. 2. That the Church have good and due tryall of such being returned, afore they chuse them into office. 3. That with these cautions, the fittest be taken into office whom God giveth in the present estate of the Church. And all these things so mynded and observed of vsus, as if at any time a better way be shewed out of the word of God, we be ready to receive it in the Lord. This is that whereof hitherto we have agreed about this matter: the particulars whereof there will be occasion to set downe more at large hereafter. But now admitting that the whole Church held it not lawfull for such to beare office, & afterward altered it (as here he saith): yet was this alteration but of our judgement and practise, not of the Churches constitution, as I hauehave shewed before: and therefore his collection herevpon (that we held false wayes in our constitution, & by consequent, then were no true Churches) is both false & frivolous.
4. The fourth he propoundeth as a question, saying of vsus, What would it profit them to b… free from false wayes in their constitution, … their practise be not according to their profession? But the question and point here treated on is, whether the description aforesaid be true, or not; and whether we our selues be a true Church according vntounto it? If we erre in practise, is it therefore a false description, or we a false Church? The Churches of Asia and Achaia erred greatly in their practise, were they not therefore true Churches according to the said description?
But yet where the practise is not according to the profession, it makes the sinne the more grievous. True, and therefore Tho: White his sinne is vnspeakably grievous, as all they do know who hauehave seen what great and earnest profession of the truth he hath made heretofore, from which now he is grievously fallen.
But for our selues he asketh further, sith their knowledg is but in part aswell as their love, are not they aswell as others subiect to erre in constitution aswell as practise? If he meane in judgment aswell as practise, we graunt it: and we hauehave alwayes professed it: howsoever he write against vsus, as if we were such as professed perfection of knowledg and practise in this life: from which errour himself knoweth vsus to be as far, as we know him to be from trueth and godlynes. But if he meane by our constitution, the way of God wherein we are set, the calling of Christ with the Churches covenant, which giveth being vntounto the Church, then I answer, that difference must be put between the way of God it self, and our weak walking therein; between the calling of Christ together with the covenant of the Church, & our sinning and transgressing in our owne wayes notwitstanding; between the Church considered in Christ the head thereof, in whom we are washed from all our sinnes, guyded in in the way of truth, and preserved to eternall life, and between the Church considered in the members thereof, as we are in our selves every one sinfull and subject daily to erre both in judgment and practise: And this not onelyonly in the members severally, but in all of vsus ioyntly together. If this distinction be not observed, who can shew that ever there was or can be true Church vponupon the earth, or how we can hauehave true comfort in this life to our selves, or esteem and discerne aright between things that differ, as we ought? And if it be observed, any may see that all his exceptions against vsus are of no moment. It is not our knowledg or practise, but our calling & covenant in Christ that secludeth in our constitution all false and evill wayes, whether as yet seen or not.
For which cause also I need not here stand vponupon his needles and erroneous discourse about that which he calleth a shift, though in deed it be a point much to be respected, namely, ‡Of this, I think my self hauehave had speach with this Th. White heretofore howsoever now he write as if he had never heard it of any of vsus.that a true Church must be separate from all false wayes, which they see. For as I hauehave shewed alreadie, we ought if we will consider aright of a Church, to look at their calling and covenant in Christ, which is from all false wayes whatsoever, seen or vnseen, to the obedience of faith. Howsoever therefore we hauehave erred or may erre in judgment or practise (as we and all men in this life are alway subiect to do) yet doth it not therefore follow, eyther that the description aforesaid is not good, or that we are not a true Church notwithstanding.
Further towching our selues, we acknowledge & professe before all men, that divers things heretofore obserued amōg vsus at the first, we have since altered and do from tyme to time alter and amend, as God giveth vsus by his word to discerne better therein: Yea and herevnto are we bound and hauehave power in Christ even by the constitution of our Church. So free from all false wayes is the constitution it self, and yet we that are in it subiect to erre notwithstanding many wayes. So far are we also from the straunge opinion and impietie of them, that having in this latter age of the world disclaymed the Pop…s person and rec…iv…d some truthes of the Gospell, yet reteyning many abhominations of Antichrist withall, would now stand still, and admit of no further proceeding or alteration among them. As if they had at first seen & received the whole truth and all the ordinances of Christ. Or as if Antichrist should not now by degrees be discovered and consumed, as heretofore he rose vp and was exalted. 2 Thes. 2. Rev. 14. and 17. and 18. and 19. chap. with Ier. 51.25.26.45.46.
And now by that which hath bene said let the Reader obserue, whether this fellow hauehave not entrapped himself and his mother Church, while he thought to hauehave ensnared vsus. Neyther let any be so simple, as to give credit in the cause of religion to any, further or otherwise but as warrant and confirmation is brought out of the word of God, which is the ground and rule of all trueth; nor to refuse that which is approved by it, for the aberration, opposition, or calumniation of any whosoever they be.
His abuse both here and other where in his book, of that which we hauehave published in print, I leave also to the Reader to observe, and for himself to answer to him that knoweth his heart. As for I. N. whom he nameth in particular more then others whom he would insinuate, for borrowing and making no conscience to pay againe: he hath called him before the Magistrates here, as others before mentioned: affirming & offring to shew how in the very particular alledged by White (when he was here demaunded his proof) for thus divulging him, he hath offred his creditour goods sufficient for his debt with overplus: and having had to deale with him for much, hath satisfyed all to a little, yet remayning: having also had hindrance by the sicknes and otherwise. And for the generall, we acknowledg that men ought to be carefull both how they borrow and how they pay againe, and should measure these, as all other affaires, with judgment and conscience, according to godlynes. Psal. 37.21. and 112.5. Rom. 13.8. And we know also, that yet notwithstanding it is the case sometime of men fearing God, not onelyonly to be but even to dy in debt: As we read of one of the sonnes of the Prophets; 2 King. 4.1.
But all this which hitherto he hath said, being not ynough, eyther for the vent of his owne rancour and malice against vsus, or to please our adversaries whose favour he would purchase by traducing of vsus: he now further pretendeth to frame an opposition between our practise, & the Treatise entituled, A true description out of the vvord of God, of the visible Church: thus setting himself to seek and abuse against vsus whatsoever he can out of any of our writings. To shew his wicked dealing herein as it is, would require to insist vponupon the particulars of that description, and to compare therewith the estate and walking of our Church: & that would aske a long treatise, which here I purpose not. It shall suffice, that the Reader, especially such as hauehave knowledg of our Church which he blameth, and of the Church of England to which he is returned, do compare them both with that description: and accordingly esteem of both as he shall fynd the estate of them to be in deed and in truth. Thereby also will plainely appeare, how this adversarie neither writeth nor walketh in the feare of God: to whom notwithstanding he must giuegive account of al these things. And for the particulars he mentioneth, that the equitie of our cause and iniquitie of his dealing may better appeare, I will in the treating of them first set down the words of that description from whence he would draw his opposition, and then speak of the particulars themselues.
And first, for the body of the Church considered in her parts (as here he would seem to except against vsus from one to another, through the severall parts of this body) thus it is set downe in that description of a true Church,A true descript. of a visible Church. Pag. 2. Suerly if this Church be considered in her parts, it shall appeare most beautifull, yea most wonderfull, and even ravishing the senses to conceive, much more to behold, what then to enioy so blessed a communion. For behold her King and Lord is the King of peace, and Lord himself of all glorie. She enioyeth most holy and heavenly lawes, most faithfull & vigilant Pastours, most sincere & pure Teachers, most carefull and vpright Governours, most diligent and trustie Deacons, most loving and sober Relievers, and a most humble, meek, obedient, faithfull, & loving people, every stone living elect and precious, every stone hath his beautie, his burden, and his order. All bound to edify one another, exhort, reproue, & comfort one another lovingly as to their owne members, faithfully as in the eyes of God. Thus it standeth in that description. Towching which now I would aske, 1. Whether he hold this description herein to be true and agreable to the word of God. 2. Whether he dare deny Iesus Christ to be the King and Lord of our Church. 3. Whether he acknowledg him onelyonly to be the King & Lord of every true visible Church vponupon the earth. 4. Whether these be the Offices and functions which he as Lord and King hath appointed to his Church, namely, Pastors, Teachers, Elders, Deacons, Relievers. 5. Whether these be had in the Church of England to which he is now gone, and in whom they are there to be found. 6. Whether the Church Officers there be so qualified, as here is set downe. 7. Finally, whether if any would compare the estate of that Church, in the body, officers, members, lawes, and walking thereof, with the description of a true visible Church out of the word of God, he might not make another maner treatise and other maner of obiections against them, then this Priest of theirs doth against vsus.
But to proceed, for the Pastor (with which office he beginneth first) thus are his qualities and duties set down in that descriptiō of a true Church, Pag. 3. Their Pastour must be apt to teach, no yong Sch… ler, able to divide the word aright, holding fast that faithfull word according to doctrin…, that he may also be able to exhort, rebuke, improve, with who… some doctrine, & to convince them that say against it: He must be a man that loveth goodnes: he must be wise, righteous, holy, temperate: he must be of life vn…eproveable, as Gods Steward: he must be generally well reported of, and one that ruleth his owne houshold vnderunder obedience with all honestie: he must be modest, humble, meek, gentle, & loving: he must be a man of great pacience, compassion, labour and diligence: he must alway be careful and watchfull over the flock whereof the Lord hath made him overseer, with all willingnes and chearfulnes, not holding his office in respect of persons, but doing his duty to every soule, as he will answer before the chief Shepheard, &c. And afterward, pag. 4. The Pastours office is, to feed the sheep of Christ in green and wholsome pastures of his word, and lead them to the still waters, even to the pure fountaine and river of life. He must guide and keep those sheep by that heavenly sheephook and pastorall staffe of the vvord, thereby drawing them to him, thereby looking into their soules, even into their most secret thoughts: Thereby discerning their diseases, and thereby curing them: applying to every disease a fit and convenient medicine, & according to the qualitie and danger of the disease, give warning to the Church, that they may orderly proceed to excommunication. Further, he must by this his sheephook watch over and defend his flock from raven…us beasts and the Wolfe, and take the little foxes, &c. Thus far that description. Now among these qualities and duties he excepteth onelyonly about two: the one concerning pacience, the other love and compassion: Which also are such, as it is fitter for the Church & people with whom I have lived, to speak therein then my self. Neither will I set to excuse my self, knowing how subiect I am to fall into infi…mity, and to fayle in duty otherwise then I ought or would.
1. Therefore towching the former, which is of impaciency, I will not stand to speak what I could, about the persons whom he nameth in particular, the dealing then vsed, the Discourse now written, the other witnesses vnmentioned, and the like: Neyther to alledg, how deserved reproof and severity is oftentimes accounted too much sharpnes and impaciencie; and that anger sometymes is both needfull and lawfull &c. But omitting these things, I will for my self answer this, that I am a man subject to like passions as others be. And if Moses that man of God and *Num. 12.3.meekest of all men on the earth, yet had this spirit so vexed, as he spake vnadvisedly with his lippes:Ps. 106.33. what am I that I should not much more so think and acknowledg of my self, who am so privie to my owne weaknes, as I am?
2. And for the second thing, which is concer…ing love and compassion, why should I think otherwise but that I may sometimes fayl therein? Yet this man for it of all other might hauehave laid his hand on his mouth, to whom (when at fi…st he came a straunger & poore into these countreyes) I gave meat and drink and lodging about nine or ten weekes together, till he returned againe into England.
Towching my Father (of whom he speaketh in particular) I do and will alway acknowledg that I was so bound to him both by nature and for his care and charge of my bringing vp, as I never did or could do ynough to shew my self sufficiently thankful. And what then should I do speaking of any thing I hauehave done by any meanes that way? And in particular for the tyme whē he was here, what I did & offered him to do, at his cōming hither, remayning here, and going from hence, with other particulars that might be noted, I will not here speak neyther, what my self could if it were anothers case, or what divers others know and could testify if it were needfull. Neither wil I stand to shew what I could towching the pretence which he maketh about his being here in necessity.
Of M. Sl. his abuse of me and maner of dealing at the time here intended, I will forbeare also to speak what he knoweth I might. If he at that tyme spake hereof (as here is affirmed) why might I not passe by it with silence, as I did at the same tyme a multitude of his raylings & contumelies, as White himself & the many witnesses then present did see and can testifie, if they will? When Shemei rayled on David, and Rabshakeh on Israel, David held his peace, and Hezekiahs people answered not a word. 2 Sam, 16.5—13. 2 King. 18.36. Yet now I thought good to speak and write thus much considering there is a tyme to speak, as there is a tyme to keep silence. Eccles. 3.7. Pro. 26.4 5.
But to leave these men, that which I will here speake further is this only, that it is needfull for all in all things carefully to observe and follow the rules prescribed by Christ,Deut. 5.32 1 Tim. 5.21. Mat. 10.37. not declining to the right hand or to the left; not preferring one to another; not yeelding to our owne affections & desires, but submitting them alway to the will and louelove of God. As we read, that Levi was commended of Moses and blessed of God, for not respecting father, mother, brethren, or children, but preferring before them the keeping of the word and covenant of the Lord: Deu. 33.8.9. And it is noted in the description aforesaid, among the Pastors duties there mentioned, that he hold not his office in respect of persons, but do his duty to every soule, as he will answer before the chief Shepheard. In the performance whereof also the Pastor and other Elders and governou…s of the Church are to be accounted and regarded as Fathers. But I will no further insist herevpon: neyther speak I these things to excuse my self in any thing I have done or omitted otherwise then I should. I acknowledg my sinnes are many and my infirmities great: and my strength and salvation is onelyonly in the Lord Iesus: For whose sake I have (through his merciemercy) suffred much rebuke, and I trust shall patiently beare it to the end.
Next he cometh to speak of the Teacher, whose qualities and duties are thus set downe in the description aforesaid, Pag. 3. Their Doctor or Teacher must be a man apt to teach, able to divide the word of God aright, and to deliver sound and wholsome doctrine from the same, still building vponupon that sound groundwork, he must be mighty in the Scriptures, able to convince the gainsayers, and carefull to deliver his doctrine pure, sound and plaine, not with curiositie or affectation, but so that he may edifie the most simple, approving it to every mans conscience: he must be of life vnreproveable, one that can governe his owne houshold, he must be of maners sober, temperate, modest, gentle and loving, &c. And afterward, Pag. 5. His speciall care must be to build vponupon that only true groundwork, golde, silver, and pretious stones, that his work may endure the triall of the fyer, and by the light of the same fire, reveale the Tymber, Hay, & Stubble of false Teachers: He must take diligent heed to keep the Church from errours. And further he must deliver his doctrine so plainly, simplie, & purely, that the Church may increase with the increasing of God, and grow vp vntounto him which is the head, Christ Iesus. Hitherto is that description: wherein the qualities and duties set downe, be many and great.
1. Yet cannot this Adversarie satisfy himself with them all as he would: and therefore coming to make exceptions against the Teacher, he fetcheth his first, out of the generall description of the Church spoken of before, objecting that the Teacher is sleyned with hypocrisie: and to proue it he alledgeth his dealing concerning G. I. M. Sl. Yet sheweth it not so much as in any one particular: thinking belike that some are so simple in themselues or so set against vsus, as they will take his word for proof sufficient, who …eyther knoweth that dealing himself, & in the things which he knoweth can ly so notoriously, as if he had the art of lying and would be a teacher thereof vntounto others.
2. The second thing he objecteth, is apostasie: because that many yeares since having received this cause he did sometimes yeeld to heare the Ministery of the Church of England. But synce that tyme hath so approved himself among vsus, both in the witnesse of the trueth & in the service of the Church, as hath ben for the great help and comfort of vsus all, and my self in particular bound to testify concerning him, as Paul did of Marcus Barnabas sisters sonne, that that he hath ben my workfellow vntounto the kingdome of God, which hath ben to my consolation. Col. 4.10.11. For the question it self and our account of Apostasie, I shall write more particularly hereafter.
3. The third thing is, that he saith he hath ben a meanes to bring in and defend false doctrines. But what be they? First, The latter of those two before mentioned. Now that latter was about apostasie in the matter aforesaid. So as then himself accounteth them to be apostates, that having held our cause do afterward yeeld to heare the Ministery of the Church of England; and that it is a false doctrine, that any such may afterward beare office in the Church. And what then is this Whites own case, who being a Minister of the Church of England, left both that Church and Ministery, and received our cause, and witnessed the trueth against them, and yet now hath yeelded not onelyonly to heare but even to execute himself the Ministerie of that Church againe?
But he will say, that among the Errata (at the end of his book) he noted this for one, that for the word (latter) we should here read, former. I have obserued it: and well in deed might he note it amōg his Errata, who even while he would blame others of errour, doth so straungely erre himself as to put latter for former, one contrarie for another. But this might be an oversight (as often falleth out in printing) which therefore I would not hauehave noted, but that I think there is a worse thing in it: namely, that at first he both wrote and meant it of the latter, which is about apostasie, vntill he had himself apostate from the t…ueth and executed agayne his Ministery received from the Prelates in England: and therevpon now would alter it, measuring the doctrines of religion, not by the word of God, but as may best serue his own turne. And I am perswaded the rather thus to think for these reasons: 1 because when he began to set himself to be an enemie of this Church and could not prevaile as he desired, he then began to make question about apostasie, whether any such might beare office in the Church: 2. If we vnderstand it here of the former, as his Errata now would hauehave it read, it is nothing to the purpose at all: seing there is in it no speach of any points of doctrine, but of hypocrisie; and seing an hypocrite may notwithstanding teach true doctrine. For els it would follow, that neither Iudas nor White himself did heretofore teach true doctrine when they preached, because Iudas was and he is an hypocrite, both of them through hypocrisie betraying Christ into the hands of his enemies.
His other proof of false doctrines which he pretendeth is set down after his woonted manner, others that may be alledged: yet not naming any, which no doubt he would have done if he could, or if he durst adventure the triall of them with the Teacher of our Church whom he thus envieth and abuseth, who notwithstanding for his learning, wisdome, and godlynes, as also for his faithfull teaching of the Church and vpright walking toward all, is so well knowen & approued, as neither he nor we need regard any adversaries malice & opposition against him.
After this he commeth from the teaching to the ruling Elders, whose properties and duties are thus noted in the description abovesaid, Pag. 4. Their Elders must be of wisedome and iudgment, endued with the Spirit of God, able to discerne between cause and cause, between plea and plea, and accordingly to prevent and redresse evils, alwayes vigilant & intending to see the statutes, ordinances, and lawes of God kept in the Church, and that not onelyonly by the people in obedience, but to see the Officers do their duties. These men must be of life likewise vnreproveable, governing their own families orderly, they must be also of maners sober, gentle, modest, loving, temperate, &c. And afterward againe, pag. 5. Their especiall care must be, to see the ordinaunces of God truely taught & practised, aswell by the Officers in doing their dutie vprightly, as to see that the people obey willingly and readily. It is their dutie to see the Congregation holily and quietly ordered, and no way disturbed, by the contentio…s and disobedient, froward and obstinate: not taking away the libertie of the least, but vpholding the right of all, wiselie iudging of times and circumstances. They must be ready assistaunts to the Pastour and Teachers, helping to beare their burden, but not intruding into their office. Thus is the description. Now towching our Elders, he taketh here his exception against two of them. The first is, Mr Da. St. against whom it may be he is the more eagerly caryed, because he discerned so quickly into him, being a notable white hypocrite, and dealt so plainly & roundly with him as he did: And therefore also exc…pteth not a word against him, for his ability to discerne into persons and causes and to deale with them accordingly, nor for sundrie other of the properties and duties here required, though they be many and waighty. Yet some things he speaketh of, which he had twise before, besides that which he hath also hereafter: so as I need not repeat and speak of them, as he doth againe and againe. Yet somewhat more I will note here touching the particulars excepted out of the description.
1. The first is, of being indued with the Spirit of God: Of which we hauehave seen many and great testimonies in Mr St. from tyme to tyme. He hath bene an auncient disciple of Christ in the faith of the Gospell this many yeares; He hath given vp his life for the name of the Lord, being adjudged to death, & so remayning many yeares vnderunder the sentence and dayly expectation thereof, till he was banished; He now liveth still an exile for the same truth of Christ; And in the governement of the Church hath had to deale with so many causes, persons, and dispositions (yea oppositions also of sundry people) as if he had not bene indued with the spirit of God, & that in great measure, he had never bene able so to have endured & waded through them all, as he hath done. Which also may both strēgthē himself still in the Lord, & stop the mouth of all his adversaries. And for this Th. White himself, let it here be considered: 1. Whether he be fit to beare any office at all, yea or to be so much as a member in the Church of God, if he be tried but by this one particular, of being indued with the Spirit of God. 2 With what spirit he hath written this book of his. 3. Whether he hauehave not therein many times and sundry wayes blasphemed the holy spirit of God. For which he shall answer to the Lord.
2. The second thing is, that he saith he would defend the transgressing of the lawes of God in himself and others. Note, that he saith not he hath done it, but that he would do it. And how shewes he this? Not so much as by pretence of any one particular for proof thereof, Yet this is the man that would perswade his Reader he could make due proof of any thing he layeth to our charge.
3. The third thing is, about the governing of his house: for which he referreth to that he hath els where cited, and so do I to that which is there said. Yet let himself take this withall, that if the things be true which are reported and observed concerning his own family, he might have found work ynough at home, and cause ynough to cast a beame out of his owne eye. But I will not follow his course in this maner (howsoever it might be iust) to deale with him as he doth with others.
4. The fourth is, of crueltie and tyranny: for proof whereof he allegeth that some of our owne members have complayned, that if they had a matter as cleare as the sunne against him, yet durst they not deale with him for it. But who be these some he speaketh of? why doth he not name them at all? Or would he hauehave vsus to think that they be some such as hate the light, knowing that their works are evill, and whome he therfore concealeth: that he might shew himself with his fellowes Mr P…. and the rest to be fit receivers for such reporters? Or why did he not obserue, that the Elders must be men of wisdome and judgement, able to discerne between cause and cause, plea & plea, & that it is their duty to repress the contentious & disobedient, froward and obstinate? Which by whomsoever it be done, who can otherwise think but such will be as ready to open theyr mouthes against them, as they are to please themselves in their own eyes? But howsoever they may for a while lurk & walk in the dark, yet God in his time will bring them to light & discover them, as he hath done this White himself & sundry other the like heretofore.
5. The other of the Elders he speaketh of, is Mr St. Mer. against whom he excepteth for Apostasie. The matter was thus. About thirteen yeares synce, a litle while after he was come to this cause which we professe, being in the countrey with his friends, he was there perswaded that he would heare some of the Ministers of the Church of England preach: Which he did once: And straightway after being affected therewith, did it no more. Which also he made knowen himself, whereas otherwise it was vnknowen to vsus. Now after that time living with the Church, and being wel approved among vsus, he was about five yeares since chosen to be one of the Elders. Thus is the case: wherein now mark this hypocrites dealing. The qualities and duties required in the Elders being so manie and great, as in the description are noted: was there nothing whereat he could except, but this onelyonly? And was his malice such, as rather then he would say nothing, he would except evē for that which himself accounteth to be good and lawfull? Let such dealing then returne into his owne bosome, and be a comfort to such as be thus abused by him.
From the Elders, he cometh to the Deacons, whose qualities & office is set down in the aforesaid description of a true Church, pag. 4. Their Deacons must be men of honest report, having the mysterie of the faith in a pure conscience, endued with the holy Ghost: they must be graue, temperate, not given to excesse, nor to filthy lucre. And afterward againe, Pag. 5. The Deacons office is faithfully to gather & collect by the ordinance of the Church, the goods and benevolence of the faithfull, and by the same direction, diligently and trust…lie to distribute them according to the necessitie of the Saincts: Further they must enquire and consider of the proportion of the wants both of the Officers and other poore, and accordinglie relate vntounto the Church, that provision may be made. Here he excepteth onelyonly against one of our Deacons, Mr C. Bow. To whom about eleven yeares synce, the Magistrates of Narden did once (and not weekly, as this man intimateth) send a litle money to be given to the poore of the Church: which he together with one of the Elders (Mr. G. Kniston) did accordingly bestow vpō such as they iudged to stand most in need. Whereof because goodwife Colg. (the woman of whom he speaketh) had not a part, therevpō by her meanes it seemeth was this report raised of Mr. Bow. which now this fellow hath published: and for which with his many such like instances, he is by Mr B. called before the Magistrates as a sclanderer. And touching the woman no marvel if shee so abused him, who hath synce in other things caryed her self so vngodlily, as she is cast out of the Church, and so remaineth. And for Mr. Bow: how wel he hath approved himself in his office, I shal not need to relate: neither need he regard any sclanderous tong or pen, knowing his owne integrity, and having the Churches testimony, to which he hath with good approbation ministred in that office now about fourteen yeares.
After this dealing with sondry of our officers in particular, the adversarie commeth to speak of the Elders ioyntly. Against whom he obiecteth, that we called R.W. (that is Rose White his wife) before vsus in the first place, for a private thing. But it was, for that her child was kept vnbaptized; and for that we heard she had entertayned Ma. Sl. at her table, who is a man excōmunicated by our Church, whereof she was then a member. For these things onelyonly was she called before the Elders: and for the first, together with her apostasie from the truth which before tyme she had professed with vsus, she was a while after excōmunicated by …he whole Church. For the latter whenas she answered that it was her husbands doing, without her liking, and against her will (though not so signifyed vntounto him) & that her self gaue the excommunicate no countenaunce as approving his estate, we rested therein: instructing her onelyonly how to cary her self in such cases for tyme to come, & exhorting her to be carefull accordingly to walk as by the word of God we have rule and direction. Now for the hypocrite her husband himself, whereas he saith here, the Church of Christ do privately admonish a private sinne of a holy and loving affection: how will he shew this in the Church of Englād, whither he is gone? or doth he hold it not to be the Church of Christ? or that it is by some priviledg not bound to the ordinances of Christ? Not to speak how himself by his owne mouth is condemned, whiles he acknowledgeth that Christiās ought thus to walk, & yet publisheth he careth not what, things private or publick, true or false, and that with a wicked and malicious affection.
Lastly, from the officers he cometh to the people: objecting against them vncleannes, cousoning, disgracing, backbiting, and vndermyning one of another amongst themselves. But this onelyonly in generall termes: And so might any vnclean mouth, and backbiting sclanderer, traduce any people in the world. Will he now then apply to himself & to his practise and †The Prelate of Lond. &c.consorts in this work, that which the Prophet speakes, With our tounge will we prevaile; our lippes are our owne; who is Lord over vsus? Psal. 12.4. Why boastest thou thy self in malice, ô man of power? the loving kindnes of God indureth every day. Thy tounge imagineth mischief, it is like a sharpe rasor, ô thou worker of deceit. Thou lovest evill more then good, lyes more then to speak the truth. Selah. Thou lovest all words that may destroy, ô deceitfull tounge.
But above all, mark now the wickednes and blasphemie of his conclusion of this point. Which that it may the better appeare, & with lesse praejudice of others be regarded, I will put the case in an instance of Iacobs family, before Christs coming in the flesh, and of the Church of Corinth, synce Christs time: and therein will alledg (not things forged, perverted, and abused, as this enemy doth against vsus) but true things onelyonly and such as are recorded in the Scriptures themselves. That the family of Iacob was the Church of God, cannot be denied. Now in it we fynd,Gen. 29. & 30. & 31. & 34. that Iacob having two wives and two concubines, his wives envied one another; Rachel stale away her Fathers idols; Dinah his daughter was deflowred; his sonnes deceitfully beguiled the Sichemites; Simeon and Levi slew them in a rage;Gen. 34. & 35. & 37. & 38. chap. Reuben committed incest with Bilhah his fathers concubine; the other brothers hated envied and sold Ioseph into Egipt; and coloured it with lving to Iacob their father; Iudah lay with Thamar his daughter in law, taking her to be an whore, &c, Will now any man of knowledg and fearing God infer therefore herevpon, and say, Were these then the Church▪ the Saincts, the Israell of God? Were these the fathers of the tribes of Israell, so greatly renowmed through all posterity? Were these the stones, the precious stones, embossed in the High priests Brestplate? Were these the twelve Patriarks for the tyme of the Law, answerable to the twelve Apostles for the tyme of the Gospell? Yet such you see are the conclusions, but in deed the delusions, of this blasphemous wretch.
But see it further in the Church of Corinth vnderunder the Gospel. In which,Epist. to he Corinhians. were schismes and dissensions, strife & envying, wrath and backbiting; vncleanes and wantonnes, fornication and incest, hurting and jnjurying one of another, abusing of Christian liberty, sitting in the Idols temple at the Idols feast, declining from the Lords ordinance in the vse of the Sacraments, prayer and prophecy; denying of the resurrection, &c. If now this white paynted hypocrite had lived in that age and Church, as he did with vsus of late, would he nothing hauehave respected their faith, their order, their constitution, wherein they were set by the Apostle: but reprochfully have concluded and inferred against them, as here he doth, saying, Are these then this beautifull? yea most vvonderfull Church, ravishing the senses to conceiue of it? are these the Saincts then marching in such a heavenly & gracious aray, where every stone hath his beauty, his burthen, and his order, where no law is vvrongfully vvrested, or vvilfully neglected, no truth hid or perverted? Thus indeed he shall shew himself to be one of those Ministers of Sathan (spoken of in that Epistle) who can transforme himself as though he were a Minister of righteousnes;2 Cor. 11.13.14.15. whose e…d …hal be according to his workes: howsoever f…r a tyme he may d…lude many poore soules and frustrate their expectation, as already he hath done.
As for W. Ha. & E. Ha. whose words (as if they were of waight) he recordeth, he should hauehave remembred, that these his companions are such whose mouth is no sclander, two such like as himself, poor soules in deed as touching faith and godlynes, but abundantly rich (so to speak) in dissembling, lying, rayling, backbiting &c. and therefore fit witnesses for such an accuser, their owne sayings fit testimonies against themselues, that they never needed to have separated themselues from the Church of England, as they did, being such also as this society would quickly have thrust them out from among vsus, so living and practising as they do. No marvell then if when they had seen our estate, they were frustrate of their expectation, & therefore returned agayne to the Church of Englād, knowing it to be a fit cage for such birds.
And hitherto of the second head of his Treatise, concerning the …scription of a visible Church. According to which, if we would compare the estate of the Church of England, in the members, officers, worship, ministration, &c. as he hath done ours: let the Reader consider, whether it would not in truth be found so cleare a testimony against them and their practise, as neither he nor all his consorts (the Prelates and their chapleynes) could ever be able to turn away. Neyther that onelyonly, but even their own description of a visible Church, as it is set downe in their Articles of religion agreed vponupon in the yeare 1562. Artic. 19. which is thus, The visible Church of Christ is a congregation of faithfull men, in the which the pure word of God is preached, and the Sacraments be duly ministred according to Christs ordinance, in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same. Which (to vse his own words) is a cleare testimony,Answ. to Mr, H. I. p. 14. &c. & a pregnant sentence of condemnation against themselves and their practise. Of which also I have otherwhere spoken heretofore, which yet re…ayneth vnanswered.