Answer to Mr Jacobs Defense of the Churches and Ministry of England, To the reader · Floating text 4 – Floating text 7
D. B. His Preface to the Reader. Section 4.
3. Thirdly, I vvould deſier the Reader to obſerve, the vvreſting and miſaplying of certen places of ſcripture, vvhichwhich (partly in this Treatiſe, and alſo in other their vvritings) they alleadge for their abſolute and peremptory ſeparation from the Churches of England: VVhichWhich I hauehave thought not amiſſe here to ſett dovvne, that thereby the Reader (and themſelues, vppon better conſideration off the ende and ſcope of the holy Ghoſt in theſe places) may ſee, hovv they vvreſt and miſapply them, cleane contrary from the true and naturall ſence thereof.
The ſcriptures vvhichwhich they alleadge for theyr ſeparation, are theſe.
Then the ſonnes of God ſaw the daughters of men. Gen. 6.2.
Yee ſhall keepe therefore all mine ordinances and all my iudgments and doe them, that the land whither I bring you to dwell therein ſpew you not out, therefore ſhall ye bee holy vntounto mee, for I the Lord am holy, and I have ſeparated you from other people, that you ſhould be mine. Lev. 20.22.26.
So the children of Iſraell which were come agayne out of captiuitie, and all ſuch as had ſeparated themſelves vntounto them from the filthines of the Heathen of the land, to ſeeke the Lord God of Iſraell, did eate, &c. Ezra. 6.21.
Departe, departe yee, goe out from thence, and touch no vncleane thinge, goe out of the middeſt of her, be ye cleane that beare the veſſels of the Lord. Eſa. 52.11.
Fly from the middeſt of Babell, and departe out of the land of the Caldeans. Ier. 50.8. And fly out of the middeſt of Babell, and deliuer eueryevery man his ſoule from the fierce wrath of the Lorde. Ier. 5….6.45.
Come not yee to Gilgall, neither goe ye vp to Bethauen. Hoſ. 4.15.
Come to Bethell and tranſgreſſe, ād to Gilgall and multiply tranſgreſſion, &c. Seeke not Bethell nor enter into Gilgall, and goe not to Beerſheba. Amos. 4.4.5.
Saue your ſelues from this froward generation. Act. 2.40.
And when certen were hardned and diſobeyed ſpeaking euell of the way of God before the multitude, he departed from them and ſeparated the Diſcipels, &c. Act. 19.9.
Therefore come out from among them, and ſeparate your ſelues, ſaith the Lorde, and touch no vncleane thing, and I will receive you. 2 Cor. 6.17.
And I heard another voice from heaven, ſaying, goe out of her my People, that ye be not partakers in her ſinnes, and that ye receyve not of her plagues. &c, Rev. 18.4.
Theſe are the very mayne grounds, on vvhichwhich theyr ſeparation is builded, vvhichwhich being duly vveighed vvith the ſcope of the text, you ſhall very eaſely finde, that not one amongeſt them all, vvill hold in proportion vvith this time, nor beare the ſeparation they gather from them. Firſt becauſe either they concerne ſuch times and ſtates as the people that liued in them, vvere profeſſors of, or ſubiect vntounto, open groſſe Infidelitie, & either Heathē or Antichriſtiā Idolatry, not in ſome particuler cuſtomes & outvvard ordinances, but in the vvhole body and povver of Heathen & Antichriſtian religion, ſuch as could not poſſibly ſtand vvith true faith and religion at all: VVhichWhich can not be ſaid of theſe times & preſent ſtandings, vvithout open vntruth. 2. Or els becauſe if they be not of that ſort, they affoard no ſuch abſolute ſeparation at all but only from wilful / rebellious / and obſtinate diſobeyers, & euill ſpeakers, and from apparant groſſe corruptions, but not from the vvhole publike body of thoſe aſſemblies, nor from the lavvfull and good things vſed in ſuch times ād ſtandings as have not vvholy ſvvarued from the faith, though there vvere divers grievous faults, both in doctrine and practiſe, ſuffered among them. As by the example of the Ievviſh Churches in the times of the Prophets, eſpecially of Chriſt himſelfe, may plainly appeare. The Euangeliſtes make mention in diuers places, That they worſhipped God in vayne / teaching for doctrine mens preceptes. They made their proſelites the Children of Hell two fold more then they were before. They made the commaundements of God of none effect by theyr traditions / ſuch as beleeved in Chriſt they excommunicated. &c. Yet vvere they a true Church, notvvithſtanding theſe and many other grievous enormities: vvith vvhom Chriſt himſelf and his Apoſtles, had communion and fellovvſhip, ſometime in thoſe good things that vvere among them. And ſo might they vvith the Churches of England, vvithout iuſtifying or allovving theſe things, vvhichwhich they ſee to be euill. All vvhichwhich things doe more fully appeare in the conference it ſelfe, as it follovveth hereafter.
The Aunſwer. May it not fitly be ſaid and applyed to D. B. in this caſe / which Chriſt hath ſpoken concerning all ſuch: How ſayeſt thow to thy brother / Suffer me to caſt a mote out of thyne eye / and behold / a beame is in thyne owne eye. Hypocrite / firſt caſt the beame out of thyne owne eye / and then ſhalt thou ſee clearly to caſt the mote out of thy brothers eye. Mat. 7.4.5. Even the very laſt thing / yea and all the ſhow from Scripture that he brought for defence off theyr Church-eſtate / what is it els / but the wreſting and miſapplying of that Scripture to the Corinthians (viz. 1. Cor. 3.12.15.) as before may be ſeen in his Second note? And now agayne for thoſe Scriptures which here in his Third note he ſetteth downe eyther as alledged by vsus / or noted by himſelf out of the Evangeliſts for defence of theyr eſtate: what other thing doth he in aunſwer of the one / or allegation of the other / but onelyonly pervert ād miſapply them / againſt the true ſence and purpoſe of the Spirit of God therein? Yet …o: ſo impudent is this Baal…e become / as having ſo great a beame in his owne eye / he will yet pretend as if he ſaw a mote in anothers eye, and think he hath ſayd ynough in defence of himſelf and his Churches eſtate / if he can but pretend that others miſapply the Scriptures againſt them. But as Salomon ſaith: Better is the poore that walketh in his vprightnes / then he that abuſeth his lips and is a foole. Prove…. 19.1. Therefore will I here both ſhew the vprightnes of our walking / and withall convince the fooliſh abuſe of his lips.
Firſt then note / that there are three things ſpecially for which we alledge theſe and many other Scriptures which he concealeth. Namely / 1. That in the conſtitution of every true viſible Church / even from the beginning of the world / this hath alway ben one ſpeciall thing to be obſerved / that it was ſeparated from the world and abominations thereof. Neyther otherwiſe could there ever be any true viſible Church vponupon the earth. And yet with the Church of England it is not thus / in theyr eſtate.
2. That the Church of England now ſtanding in confuſion with the world / and ſubiection to Antichriſts Miniſtery / worſhip &c. we therefore (as all other the people of God) are bound to ſeparate and depart from it / becauſe otherwiſe we could not but partake in her ſinnes / and ſo be ſubiect alſo to receyve of her plagues.
3. That being thus ſeparated from them / we are bound to ioyne to the true Church of Chriſt in the communion of his Goſpell / to keep all his ordinances / whatſoever he hath in his word preſcribed for his Church / notwithſtanding any perſecution or exception of Man to the contrary.
Theſe three things are ſo evidently and vndeniably taught in theſe and the like Scriptures throughout the book of God / as it is ſtraunge and lamentable that any having them thus applyed / ſhould yet be ſo piteouſly blynd as not to ſee it / or ſo impudently bold as to deny it, For other the like Scriptures therefore / teaching the ſame things / ſee theſe alſo / Gen. 9.27. & 12.1.4.7. & 19.12-16. et 35.2.3. Exod. 4.22.23. & 8.25.26.27. & 10.8.9.24.25.26. & 19.5.6. & 20.4.5.6. Numb. 16.26. Deut. 7.3.5.6.11. Lev. 18.30. Ezra. 9.14. Pſal. 110.3. & 119.21.113.128. Eſa. 2.2.3. & 8.12-18. & 9.16. & 44.5. Ier. 4.18 & 15.19. & 18.12.15. & 50.4.5.8. Ezech. 16.44. & 22.26. Micah. 2.10 Zach. 2.7. & 8.21.22.23. Mal. 1.6.7.8.12.13.14. ct 2.8.9.13. & 3.16.17.18. Mat. 28.20. Ioh. 7.17. & 10.1 5. Act. 2.41.47. & 5.29. & 9.26.27.28. & 17.4.7.34. & 28.24. Rom. 16.17.18. 1 Cor. 5.6.7. Phil. 1.5.27.28. & 3.2. Col. 2.8.22.23. 1 Theſ. 5.22. & 2 Theſ. 3.3-12. 1 Tim. 6.3.4.5.13.14. & 2 Tim. 3.1.2.3.13.14.15. 2 Ioh. ver. 9.10.11. Iude, ver. 3. Rev. 14.9.12. & 17.14. & 19. 9. & 20.4.6. and 21.7.8.27. and 22.10-19. The words of theſe and the like Scriptures / I need not here ſet downe. The godly Reader will ſearch them (I doubt not) after the example of the Be…eans / ſo much commended by the Spirit of God / Act. 17.11.
Next I aunſwer / that the Apoſtles do themſelues ſo alledge and apply the Scriptures to the matters which they handle / as we after theyr example do in this. For proof hereof / ſee but theſe places following, and mynd them well, 1 Cor. 6.16. and 9.9.10. and 10.7-18 and 14.21. Rom. 9.25.26.27, 28.29. and 10.18. Heb. 2, 13.14. and 3.7. &c. and 12.26 29. and 13.2.5.6. Iam. 2.8.9.10.21.22.23. and 4.5.6. and 5.16.17.18. 1 Pet. 1.16. and 2. to and 3.20.21. 2 Pet. 2. ch. Ioh. 19.36. 1 Ioh. 3.12.15. Iude, ver. 5.6.7.11.14.15. Rev. 11.8. Now compare herewith the places in the old Teſtament from whence theſe are borrowed / and you ſhall fynd that divers differences might be noted between the one and the other. Shall we therefore ſay / that they are wreſted or miſapplyed by the Apoſtles? God forbid. To give an inſtance or two. The Apoſtle Paul alledgeth that againſt fornication / which by Moſes was firſt ſpoken of lawfull mariage / 1 Cor. 6.16. compared vvith Gen. 2.24. And in the ſame Epiſtle / albeit the Corinthians which were of the Church there / did not worſhip God by the Idols of Corinth / but did onelyonly eat at the feaſts in the Temple / which were after the ſacrifices done: yet the Apoſtle alledgeth agaynſt them the example of the Iſraelites, who both made a golden calfe / and by it worſhipped the Lord. 1 Cor. 8. and 10. chap. vvith Exod. 32.5.6. And the Apoſtle Iames / ſpeaking but of one particular breach of the Law / viz, the accepting of mens perſons / alledgeth and applyeth againſt it, the ſumme of the whole Second Table. Iam. 2.8.9.10 vvith Let. 19.18. And Iude / agaynſt Apoſtates / Schiſmatiks / diſbounders of themſelues / raylers / murmurers / malicious / covetous / preſumptuous / laſcivious / hypocriticall / vnſtable / diſcontended / and ſuch like perſons / alledgeth the Prophecyes / Scriptures / examples / which were before / of them in Enochs tyme / of the vnbeleuing Iewes / the Sodomites / evill Angels / Cain / Balaam / Corah / &c. Iud. Epiſt. vvith. Gen. 3.1. and 4.3-16. and 19.1-25. Numb. 14. and 16. and 22. chap. &c. Now in theſe / as in the reſt and many other ſo alledged in the Scriptures / may divers differences be obſerved. Yet are they all notwithſtanding / fit and pertinent for that wherevnto they apply them. Neyther can any be ignorant / but that there will be difference eyther of time / place / cauſe / ſexte / perſons / things / maner / or ſuch like circumſtance / in any allegations / and yet they be pertinent nevertheles.
It is not materiall then / though ſome differences might be noted between the caſe of England / and theyrs of whom thoſe Scriptures ſpeak: ſeing notwithſtanding they do fitly prove that / for which they are alledged. Let the Reader alſo mynd here / an old Popiſh ſhift / whereby they labour to turne away the evidence of any Scripture that is vrged againſt theyr corruptions / viz, by noting ſome difference between theyr caſe and ſuch as the Scriptures alledged ſpeak of. This you may ſee every where in theyr Rhemiſh notes on the New Teſtament / and in all the reſt of theyr books and defence of theyr Church and religion.
But now further / to make the abuſe of his lips yet the more manifeſt, marke that the very Scriptures here mentioned by himſelf / ſpeak not onelyonly / of the vvhole body and povver of Heathen and Antichriſtian religion (as he pretendeth) but of every particular ordinance and vncleane thing belonging therevnto. For thus they ſpeak expreſſely. Tovvch no vncleane thing: Keep all myne ordinances and all my iudgements: Be ye cleane: Partake not in her ſinnes, &c. By all which is moſt plainely forbidden all maner of partaking not of the whole onelyonly / but of every parcell of Antichriſts or any other falſe worſhip whatſoever.
As to the ſecond difference which he noteth here / of theyr vvilfulnes: rebellion: obſtinacy: partaking vvith the lavvfull and good things vſed among them &c. it is handled and anſwered in the Treatiſe following. Pag. 42. 43. 88. 108. 130. 132 161. 170. 171. 175. 180.
The particulars which he citeth out of the Evangeliſts towching the Iewes / are the ſpeaches and teſtimony of reproof / given vntounto them by Chriſt / whē now he threatned to take away from them his kingdome / becauſe of thoſe ſinnes and other the like among them. Mat. 21.43. This man himſelf knoweth / we never doubted but true Churches might fall into errour / and the members thereof walk corruptly (in which reſpect they are ſubiect to be reproved) And yet notwithſtanding the Church conſtitution and functions be lawfull and ioyned withall / vntill they refuſe the voyce of Chriſt and will not be reclaymed (Rev. 2. and 3. Math. 21. and. 23. Act. 2. and 13. and 17. and. 28. chap.) Wherevnto when once they come / then are all taught to ſeparate and ſave themſelves from ſuch a froward generation. Act. 2.40. and 13.46.47. & 19.9. Eſa. 8.12.-16.
Now if we may ſeparate from ſuch as have ben true Churches / when they ſo fall into ſinne and perſiſt as is aforeſayd / notwithſtanding that otherwiſe they profeſſe many Doctrines of truth: how much more may and ought we to ſeparate from all falſe Churches which ſtād in the apoſtaſy of Antichriſt / that Man of ſinne / howſoever they profeſſe ſome truth withall? 2 Theſ. 2.3-12. vvith Rev. 18.4. Ezech. 16.44. But of the difference both of the eſtate and dealing with true Churches and falſe compared together / as alſo of the weaknes and falſehood of this mā ner of reaſoning which here he vſeth / I have other where ſpokē ſufficiently / both in this Treatiſe following to which he referreth vsus (Pag. 92. 161. 195.) and in another already publiſhed viz.: A Treatiſe of the Miniſtery of England: Pag. 45. 61 62.
Note withall / that none of the Evangeliſts / neyther any other Scriptures do ſhew / that Chriſt or the Prophets did at any tyme communicate with the Iewes in any evill / but alway reproved them. Whereas it is not poſſible / that any ſhould communicate with the Church of England (though it be in theyr beſt things / even of the Miniſtery of the Word / Sacraments / Prayer / etc.) but they muſt needs partake in evill: As namely / with the Hierarchy / Leiturgy / confuſion / and other ſinnes of Antichriſt / that ſonne of perdition. Let him ſhew the contrary in any one thing among them / iff he can. And of this alſo ſee more hereafter / Pag. 170. 171. 180.
Finally / let him tell vsus if he have ſaid any thing here / which they in K. Henry the eight his dayes might not have alledged / when the Popes ſupremacy with much of his religion beſides / was caſt out of the Land / and yet they oppugned the truth in many things / and became drunken with the blood of the Martyrs notwithſtanding.
D. B. his Preface to the Reader. Section. 5.
Obiection. But vntounto the examples of theſe Churches, me thinkes I heare already, that common aunſvver and laſt refuge of theyrs: vvhichwhich is this. Thoſe Churches (ſay they) were in a true outward conſtitution. And therefore were the true Churches of Chriſt, notwithſtanding thoſe groſſe errors which they held in other poincts of doctrine and practiſe: But contrariwiſe (ſay they) the Churches of England have a falſe outward conſtitution, and therefore they are no true Churches of Chriſt / notwithſtanding theyr truthes of doctrine, &c.
Anſvver. So the outvvard conſtitution is the maine poinct on vvhichwhich they vvholy depend, and for vvhichwhich, they vvholy condempne the Churches of England from being true Chriſtians & in ſtate of ſalvation: VVhichWhich I doubt not plainly to take avvay. 1 And firſt concerning the conſtitution of the Ievviſh Churches. If vve ſhould examine the ſame, vve ſhould finde that it vvas as greatly altered and corrupted, as is the conſtitution of the Churches of England. Tvvo high Prieſts having by ſimonie crept in at once, vvhichwhich vvas vnlavvfull and contrarie to Gods ordinance, (notvvithſtanding their gloſes in their other‡9. Reaſons vvritinges to allovv them to be lavvfull by*2 Chrō. 24 2.3. Zadok and Abimelech, and by †2 King. 24.18.Seruiah the chief Prieſte, & Zephaniah the Second: vvhichwhich make againſt themſelues:) For there vvas never but one high Prieſt, as they confeſſe*Anſvver to Mr Hild. Pag. 50. (Ergo not tvvo as here vvere) the reſt vvere indeed inferior to him: And yet amongſt thoſe, there vvas a chiefly alſo, vvho vvere called, ſometimes Second Prieſts, or Prieſts of the Second order. 2. King. 23.4. and ſometimes chief Prieſts, Math. 27.1. Theſe Scriptures being compared vvith thoſe in the margin by them cited; doe make it more plaine. Novv, if the chief offices, vvere ſo corrupted and altered through couetouſnes, as the Hiſtories make mention: It is not likely, that the inferior offices did remaine ſound, but vvere aſmuch or more altered: The Prieſts (generally) being ſuch couetous vvicked perſons, theyr offices beeing very gainefull: and beſides they liuing vnderunder the authoritie of the Heathiriſh Romans, vvho ruled ouer them. All theſe things conſidered, it is very likely that the offices & outvvard conſtitution (on vvhichwhich they ſo much depend) vvere vvholy altered from the right inſtitution, and therefore vvould make nothing for them. As for theyr allegation of Mat. 23.1. VVhere they ſay, Chriſt teſtifieth that they had true offices, by ſaying they ſatt in Moſes chaire: It vvill not help them, any vvhit at all. For Moſes vvas no Prieſt, as they vvere, but a Magiſtrate: and therefore Moſes chaire muſt be vnderſtood of ſomevvhat elſe: & themſelves‡Mr Barrovv & Mr Greē vvood, in diuers Letters and Treatiſes. have vnderſtood it heretofore, of Moſes doctrine.
The Aunſwer. Do not they erre that imagine evill? And doth not a deceyver ſpeak lyes? Prov. 14.22.25. What then may we think of him that counteth it a ſmall thing to lye againſt Man, if he do not alſo open his mouth againſt heaven and give the lye to the holy Ghoſt himſelf? See both, in this man here.
Againſt vsus (and I feare againſt his own conſcience) he forgeth a lye / when he ſayth, vve do vvholy depend on their outvvard conſtitution &c. For he knoweth / we obiect againſt them beſides and ſeparate from them, for much falſe doctrine publikly taught and mainteyned among them: and for theyr wretched perſecution of the truth and Martyrs of Ieſus. (Therefore do we not wholy depend on theyr outward conſtitution: From which (it is to be noted, that) he ſevereth theyr publik doctrine, as himſelf ſheweth in the next Section: and ſo therefore here we ſpeak accordingly.) And that he knoweth theſe things / appeareth both by this Treatiſe firſt publiſhed by himſelf, where we have declared it in divers particulars (Pag. 66. 108. 157. 158 159. 160.) and in that himſelf hath ſeen and alleadgeth in this very Section / another treatiſe, written in anſwer of Mr A. H. where mo inſtances are given concerning this matter: As may be ſeen in that book. Pag. 10. 11. 12. 13. 22. 23. 37. 90. 91.
To the holy Ghoſt he giveth the lye / yea and maketh Chriſt our Lord a ſinner, in that which here he ſpeaketh firſt of the conſtitution of the Ievviſh Churches. For the Scripture teacheth that the conſtitution of that Church was a true one / and that Chriſt did himſelf / communicate therein with them. Yet this man beſides that he ſayth afterward, that it is very likely the offices and outvvard conſtitution thereof vvere vvholy altered from the right inſtitution: Euen here at firſt he ſayth peremptorily, that it vvas as greatly altered and corrupted, as is the conſtitution of the Churches of England. Which how ſhamefully falſe it is / may appeare even by this / that in thoſe very tymes the eſtate of the Iewes Church yet was ſuch as they were a people ſeparated from the world / having the true Miniſtery / ordinances / worſhip / and adminiſtration / which God by Moſes had commanded: As theſe Scriptures do plainely teſtify / Luk. 1.6.8 9.10 11. & 2.22.23.24.27.46. Mat. 8.4. Ioh. 1.19. & 4.22. & 5.1. & 11.55.2. Tim. 1.3.5. Yea they would not at any hand admit eyther of confuſion of people or of any other Miniſtery then God had ordeyned: As may be ſeen / for the firſt / in Act. 21.28 29. and for the latter, in Iob. 1.19-25. Mat. 21.25.26. How ſhameles then is it to ſay as here he doth, that theyr conſtitution was as greatly altered and corrupted as that of the Churches of England, which to this day ſtand confuſed of all ſorts of people (aſwell the prophaneſt as the beſt among them) and have no other Miniſtery or Leiturgy, but ſuch as they have receyved from Antichriſt the man of ſinne, and from Babylon that mother of whoredomes and abominations of the earth? Rev. 17.5.
And further, if the Iewiſh Church had ben thus corrupted (as he feareth not to affirme) how could Chriſt have communicated with them as he did, but he muſt needs have ſinned ād that highly againſt the Law of God: viz. if he had (as it is now in England) joyned to ſuch a Church as were vnſeparated from the World: or had partaken with a falſe Miniſtery: or had ſent others to a ſtraunge Prieſthood and Service: or had approved by word or deed any other ordinances then thoſe which God had commaunded &c. This Scribe then muſt eyther approve the Church-conſtitution of England by the word of God: or els confeſſe that it and the Iewiſh Churches are in this poynt nothing alike, or (if neyther of theſe) that then Ieſus Chriſt was a ſinner: Of whom the truth itſelf and work of our redemption teſtify / that he knew no ſinne at all, but was like to vsus in all things / ſinne excepted. 2 Cor. 5.21. Heb. 4.15. & 7.26. This man then doth thus alſo both blaſpheme the Sonne of God / and make the holy Ghoſt a lyar.
But there were (he ſaith) tvvo high Prieſts at once, vvhereas by the Lavv of God there ſhould be but one. 1. If it were ſo, albeit thus they offended in the number yet ſtill there was that office and function of Prieſthood which God had ordeyned / not a new one of mans deviſe as is the whole Hierarchy of England / from the hyeſt Archbiſhop to the loweſt Pariſh Prieſt. And ſo there is no compariſon between theſe two.
2. This was the perſonall ſinne of the men / not the conſtitution of that Church / neyther of the Offices wherein they were. See it in another example: Iudas an Apoſtle of Chriſt / yet betrayeth him. Doth it therefore follow / that his office of Miniſtery wherein he was ſet by Chriſt himſelf / was vnlawfull? Nay / that was the ſinne of the Man not of the Office wherein he was. What is this then to the queſtion in hand / when as the Miniſtery of England is charged to be ſtraunge / vnlawfull / falſe / in the very offices and functions thereof? Yea and this man himſelf doth here by the whole courſe of his ſpeach graunt as much.
3. Is there any thing here ſaid for the Prieſts and conſtitution of the Church of England / which the moſt popiſh Prieſts / Prelates / Monks / &c. may not aſwell alledge for theyrs? Is theyr Miniſtery or conſtitution therefore ſuch as man be ioyned withall?
4. See how ſtraungely theſe men forget and contradict themſelves.T. G. firſt Reply. Pag. 83 84. Mr Cartwright writing againſt D. Whitgift ſaith / If the vvhole practiſe of the Church vnderunder the Lavv be looked vponupon, it ſhall not be found that any other eccleſiaſticall Miniſtery vvas appointed then thoſe orders of hy Prieſts and Levites &c. vvhichwhich vvere appoynted by the Lavv of God. And further, that as it vvas not lavvfull to bring in any ſtraunge doctrine, ſo vvas it not lavvfull to teach the true do & rine, vnderunder the Name of any other function then vvas inſtituted by God. Yet this man with an whores forehead ſhameth not to perſwade, that the offices and outvvard conſtitution of that Church vvere vvholy altered from the right inſtitution. Thus the truth of God is with them become Yea and Nay / ſo as they may ſeem to ſay any thing for defence of theyr Churches eſtate.
5. And from whence proveth he that which here he ſpeaketh of tvvo hy Prieſts at once &c. Doth he ſhew it from the word of God? No. But he ſaith / the Hiſtoryes make mention of it. So then from the Scriptures he can not bring proof for that he ſaith. For indeed by them we fynd (euen in the corrupteſt tymes) but one at once to be by Prieſt: Albeit that of old alſo there were two which were chief over all the reſt, the one being principall / the other Second. See for that of one hy Prieſt in ſuch tymes / theſe Scriptures, Mat. 26.57.62.63.65. Mar. 14.53.60.61.63. Luk. 22.50.54. Ioh. 11.49. & 18.13.24. Act. 4.6. & 7.1. & 23.2. Heb. 5.1. & 8.3.4.5. And for the other poynt / theſe, 2 King. 25.18. 1 Chron. 24.2.3. 2 Sam. 8.17. vvith Numb. 3.32. & 4.16.18. Yea this is ſo cleare and certayne / as for any thing written in the Scripture thereahout, this man is driven himſelf (when he looketh thither) to confeſſe and confirme it too: As here may be ſeen in Scriptures which himſelf hath noted downe.
6. Why alſo doth he not name the Hiſtories that mention theſe things, together with the Perſons / time / place / and ſuch like circumſtances as might give light to the poynt in hand? Is it becauſe he would walk in the dark / and hide the truth as much as he can? Or is it for that he ſeeth / if theſe particulars were mentioned / there might yet more be anſwered concerning this matter?
7. Finally / what maner dealing is this / when he knoweth that I have other were written of this very poynt (yea and here alledgeth both the♣Anſvver to Mr H. Pa. 50 book and page) yet not to aunſwer any one of all the particulars: which there I hauehave noted out of the Scripture / towching this queſtion? To that Treatiſe therefore (till it be aunſwered) … may and do refer him in this behalf.
Next where he ſaith, If the chief offices vvere ſo corrupted and altered through covetouſnes, it is not likely that the inferior offices remayned ſound &c. And, It is very likely that the offices, & outvvard conſtitution vvere vvholy altered from the right inſtitution &c. Firſt I wiſh the Reader to mynd his maner of reaſoning. A litle before / he ſayd he doubted not plainely to take avvay that vvhichwhich vve obiect of theyr outvvard conſtitution. Yet behold the yſſue of his firſt and chiefeſt proof is all come to this, It is not othervviſe likely: It is very likely, &c. Thus his playne demonſtration (if it fitted his turne / yet) is no other but a meer likelyhood and preſumption: And that alſo gathered from other writers / not from the Scriptures. Is not this thē (think you) as playne a taking away of our obiection, as it is a ſound defence of theyr Church-conſtitution? Neyther barrell / better herring.
But what now, if by the Scriptures it be not onelyonly likely / but indeed certayne / that it was otherwiſe with the Iewes, then here he ſaith concerning theyr offices and outvvard conſtitution? How hath he then plainely taken away our objection / as he pretended? Let him ſearch therefore / and he ſhall fynd that they were ſo farre from admitting any ſtraung functions among them / as they*Iohn. 1.19-23. vrged Iohn the Baptiſt to ſhew warrant for his Miniſtery from the word of God: And beſides, by theyr ſilence to Chriſts queſtion about Iohns baptiſme / do plainely teſtify that‡Mat. 21.25 26. themſelves judged no Miniſtery lawfull / but that which is from heaven: that is / ſuch onelyonly as is of God, not of Men. If here now we would vſe his manner of reaſoning / how great likelyhoods might we juſtly alledge from theſe Scriptures / to the contrary of that he ſayth.
But to put the matter out of all doubt / the Scripture witneſſeth of Zachary / Iohn Baptiſts father / that he being then one of the Prieſts / executed the Prieſts office, and vvalked in in all the commandements & ordinances of the Lord vvithout reproof. Luk. 1.5.6.8.9. Which how could it poſſibly have ben / if the offices and conſtitution of that Church had ben wholy altered: as this man here pretendeth? Note alſo / that all the Prieſts then / were of the tribe of Levi / of the poſterity of Aaron / conſecrated to their functions / ſitting in that ſeat which God by Moſes had appointed for the Miniſtery and regiment of that Church. Ioh. 1.19. Act. 4.6 Heb. 5.1.4. Mat. 23.2. vvith Deut. 33.4.8.10.
Finally / Chriſt himſelf giveth teſtimony to the lawfulnes of their Miniſtery and conſtitution / when he ſaid to the clenſed Leper, Go ſhevv thy ſelf to the Prieſt, and offer for thy clenſing as Moſes hath commaunded. Luk. 5.14. By which is moſt playne / that they had at that tyme both the true Miniſtery and ordinances which God by Moſes had appoynted. How falſe then muſt it needs be, that this man ſaith their offices and outvvard conſtitution vve…e vvholy altered from the right inſtitution? But who is ſo bold, a… blynd Bayard?
Of their true offices / imported by ſitting in Moſes chayre, I have*A treatiſe of the Man▪ of England. Pag. 54. 55. els where ſpoken / and proved it by divers reaſons and teſtimonyes out of the word of God: To which D. B. can fynd no aunſwer, but yet is loth to yeeld to the truth. Moſes (he ſayth) vvas a Magiſtrate. What then? Therefore Moſes chayre muſt be vnderſtood of ſomevvhat els. But why ſo? Doth he not know, that Moſes in that his governement of Iſrael, even by the commaundement of God / appoynted Aaron and his ſonnes to the Prieſts office, for the burning of incenſe before the Lord / &c. Wherevppon alſo when Corah and his company did afterward murmure / ād preſumed to take the Prieſts Office vponupon them / it is ſayd they roſe vp and gathered themſelves together not onelyonly againſt Aaron (to whom it belonged) but agaynſt Moſes alſo / who from God had appoynted him and his ſonnes therevnto. Lev. 8. & 9. chap. vvith Numb. 16. & 17. & 18. chap.
Note withall / that Moſes a litle before his death bleſſing the tribes of Iſrael, when he had the heads of them aſſembled together, ſpake thus of Levi (turning his ſpeach vntounto God), Let thy Thummim and thyne vrim be vvith thyne Holy one &c. They ſhall teach Iacob thy judgements and Iſrael thy Lavv: they ſhal put incenſe before thy face and the burnt offring vponupon thyne altar &c. Deut. 33.4.5.8.9.10.11. With which Scripture and ſpeach of Moſes / if we compare that of Nehemiah / where he ſpeaketh of♣Neh. 9.3.4.5. &c. the Levites ſtayre or hy ſeat, and theyr ſtanding vponupon it vvhen they taught the Lavv &c. And that of Chriſt where he ſayd,*Mat. 23.2.3. The Scribes and Phariſees ſit in Moſes chayre, obſerve therefore vvhatſoever they ſpeak &c. And that of Iohn / where he ſayth: ‡Ioh. 1.19.24.the Phariſees vvich vvere ſent to Iohn Baptiſt about his Miniſtery vvere Prieſts & Levites: Iff (I ſay) we conſider and compare theſe Scriptures together / how playne is it and vndeniable that Chriſts ſpeach of ſitting in Moſes chayre &c. doth neceſſarily imply the true offices and functions which God by Moſes ordeyned for the teaching and guyding of Iſrael in his worſhip and ſervice? Thus alſo may Moſes doctrine which they taught in thoſe offices / be fitly vnderſtood ād compriſed in the ſame ſpeach. And what variety then is there betweē this expoſition / and that which vnderſtandeth it of Moſes doctrine / as he ſaith ſome of our ſelves have done heretofore?
Finally how ignorant and frivolous is it / that here he pretendeth againſt this, viz. that Moſes vvas, no Prieſt, as they vvere, but a Magiſtrate: Whenas all the Scriptures aforeſaid do reach that God by Moſes appoynted them to this function and ſervice? And that ſo / as Moſes himſelf though he were not a Prieſt ordeyned by ſolemne rite / yet by the appointment off God did annoint not onelyonly the Tabernacle and all that was therein / but Aaron alſo and his ſonnes / conſecrating them to the Prieſts office, and offring all the ſacrifices appertayning therevnto: Which afterward belonged onelyonly to the Prieſts for to do. Lev. 8. & 9. chap. & Pſal. 99.6. vvith Heb. 5.4.
But perhaps there is a pad in the ſtraw / more lurking in his ſpeach then all men are aware of. For what if by theſe words (Moſes vvas no Prieſt, but a Magiſtrate, and therefore Moſes chayre muſt be vnderſtād of ſome vvhat els) he inſinuate that it is meant of the Magiſtrates authority and ſeing Chriſt inferreth vponupon the ſitting in Moſes chayre / All therefore vvhatſoever they bid you obſerve, that obſerve and do, that all people therefore are bound to keep whatſoever the Magiſtrates do commaund them? Will not his words here beare and import thus much? Yea may not his vnderſtanding it, of ſome what els) joyned with the Magiſtrates authority, ſeem directly to imply it? and that ſo, as what they commaund / he thinketh it is to be obſerved, be it lawfull or vnlawfull? Which if it be his meaning / hath he not here then covertly ſowē moſt deteſtable doctrine / both ſhamefully helping Chriſt himſelf, ād wickedly croſſing the whole Scripture and practiſe of the faithfull in all ages? For proof whereof ſee but theſe and the like teſtimonyes. Exod. 1.17. 1 Sam. 22.17. Dan. 3.14-28. & 6.12.13. Mat. 22.21. Act. 4.18.19. and 5.28.29. & 17.6.7. Heb. 11. chap. Reu. 2.10.13. & 12.11.17. & 13.7.15. & 14.7.12.13. & 20.4.
D. B. his Preface to the Reader. Section. 6.
2. Secondly (to let their conſtitution paſſe, vvhichwhich yet as I have ſaid, vvould be found as badde or vvorſe then ours) vve wil examine their corruptions in doctrine: Wherein I would knovv of them, vvhichwhich are the greater ſinnes, of theſe two ſorts, viz. 1. A falſe and corrupt outward conſtitution: 2. Or falſe and corrupt doctrines. I thinke they vvill ſay, the corrupt and falſe doctrines are the greater, as they are indeed: For that they doe vvound, feſter and corrupt the very conſcience, and doe deceive the hearers thereof, Whereas the errors in the conſtitution of a Church, (eſpecially in ſome circumſtances (as the errors with vsus are) and thoſe of no ſmall controverſie, in matters alſo not fundamentall) are nothing nere ſo hurtfull: by hovve much the Tithing of Mint Annis, & Commin, are of leſſer force then the other vveightier matters of the lavv. Novv from hence, I Reaſon thus.
If the greater ſinnes (namely in doctrine) doe not ſimply ouerthrovv a companie of Chriſtians, from being a true Church: Then much leſſe vvill the leſſer ſinnes (namely in the outvvard conſtitution, &c)
But the falſe doctrines (which are the greater ſinnes) themſelves confeſſe by the example of the ſaid Churches doe not. Therefore neither will the leſſer.
For the better explayning of this poinct, I would pray them reſolve me of this queſtion. What if a company of Arians, Anabaptiſtes, or Papiſtes, ſhould bee gathered and eſtabliſhed in a true outward conſtitution, & ſtill reteyne their fundamentall errors before*Sectiō. 3 named: Whether ſhould their outward conſtitution make them a true Church, yea or no? I thinke they will ſay no. Thus I hope then it appeareth, that the outward conſtitution whether falty or true, availeth nothing to the ouerthrowing or making of a true Church, vnleſſe other doctrines of the foundation, either falſe or true, doe concurre therewith. And thus their Obiection of the Iewiſh conſtitution, is (I truſt) fully anſvvered: So that ſtill their peremptory ſeparation and condempning of the Churches of England, for ſome outvvard corruptions, remayneth ſtill a grievous ſinne vpō their heads for vvhichwhich (vvithout harty repentance) they ſhall one day aunſvver before God, vvhichwhich vvill be too heavie a burthen for them to beare.
The Aunſwer. That which Chriſt ſayd to the Scribes and Phariſees / VVo be to you blynd guydes vvhichwhich ſay, VVhoſoever ſvveareth by the Temple, it is nothing: but vvhoſoever ſvveareth by the gold off the Temple, Mat. 23.16.17.he offendeth. Ye fooles and blynd, vvhether is greater, the gold, or the Temple that ſanctifyeth the gold, &c. May it not in this caſe alſo fitly be applyed to this Scribe? Specially / ſeing the Church in the conſtitution thereof (if we ſever it from the doctrine, as here he doth) may in divers reſpects be compared with the Temple / and the doctrine of truth taught and vpheld in the Church, with the gold of the Temple: As both by theſe Scriptures doth plainely appeare (2 Cor. 6.16.17. vvith. 1 Tim. 3.15. 1 Cor. 14.5.6.19.23.24.25.33. 2 Theſ. 2.4.4. Rev. 11.1.2.) And by this alſo, that God hath made the promiſe of his preſence and bleſſing to his Church (as to the Temple wherein he will dwell) it being ſo conſtituted, and walking / as he hath commaunded. Lev. 26.11.12. with 2 Cor. 6.16.17.18. Eſa. 52.11.12. Ezech. 37.26.27.28. & 48.35. Mat. 28.20. Yea and this man himſelf did*Section 3. here a litle before alledge, that by gold and ſiluer (ſpoken of, 1 Cor. 3.12.) the Apoſtle meaneth true doctrine. Which if it were ſo there / then by his owne expoſition may that ſaying of Chriſt to the Phariſees / well be applyed to him in this caſe.
Secondly I aſke / Doth not the conſtitution (be it true or falſe) alway include the whole body of the Church, whereas the falſe Doctrine is often found but in ſome members thereof? This may be ſeen in the Churches of Iſrael / Corinth, Galatia / Pergamus / etc. In which reſpect alſo the falſe and corrupt conſtitution may be of greater waight and more danger / then the falſe and corrupt Doctrine: inaſmuch as the wounding and infecting of the whole body is far worſe then of ſome parts onelyonly: and becauſe the parts ſo infected, if they cannot otherwiſe beholden / may be cut of / and yet the body preſerved: Not contrarily. For the better explaning whereof / let him reſolve me which of theſe propoſitions is the truer, viz. VVhere there is in a Church falſe doctrine, there is a falſe Church: Or this, VVhere there is a falſe conſtitution there is a falſe Church. And contrarily.
Thirdly I aſke / Is not the Hierarchy and Church conſtitution of Antichriſt / the moſt deteſtable anarchy of Sathan that ever was? And doth not Sathan far more commonly and readily part with his falſe doctrine / then with it / when he muſt needs part with the one,2 Theſ. 2.9. and yet can retayne the other? He is ſubtill and of long experience / he can mynd and knoweth full well that ſo long as he holdeth his owne conſtitution of a Church / he can quickly (vppon any opportunity) bring in his doctrine agayne / even with a trice. For why? He hath both the people ready for the receyving of it / being yet ſtill in the confuſion and bondage of Antichriſt: and his owne Miniſtery alſo to be imployed in the publiſhing and ſerving thereof: theyr Offices / Callings / Miniſtrations / Maintenance / being all ready at hand and fit for the purpoſe. Whereas on the contrary / when the falſe conſtitution is aboliſhed / then falſe doctrine wanteth both hee woonted place of receipt, and her nimble wings by which ſhe ſhould ſpread and fly abroad. And here I could alledge for proof hereof / the prefer Miniſtery and eſtate of the Church of England, which being of Antichriſt Sathans graundchild / and he now having ſpyed his tyme / and found ſome opportunity / beginneth apace by this meanes to bring in agayne ſuch doctrines of his / as had for a tyme ben ſuppreſſed: As namely / Free-vvill, Auricular Confeſſion, Chriſts ſoule to deſcend into Hell: The Church of Rome to be a true Church, &c. Witneſſe the Books and publik Sermons of Bilſon: Bancroft: Hooker: Androes: Harſenet: Barret: and other the Prieſts and Prelates of that Church / the Marchants of theſe and the like wares off the Beaſt / in Court / City / Countrey / Vniverſity / and where not?
The ſame thing you may mynd alſo thus / So long as the houſe ſtandeth ſtill / and is furniſhed with ſervants and Miniſters / it is ready for the implements and furniture (though removed for a tyme) to be brought in agayne / and ſoone to be ſet vp in theyr woonted place. And if you would ſee an example of theſe things yet in memory / look but at the Churches eſtate in K. Edwards and Q. Maryes dayes compared together. The popiſh conſtitution of the Church being not aboliſhed in King Edwards tyme / how ſoone was the Popes doctrine / yea and his ſupremacy / in Queen Maryes dayes ſpread and acknowledged throughout the Land? Yet the ſame doctrines of truth were in K. Edwards tyme publiſhed and receyved / which now are in England. And very like alſo that it was then with more zeale and love of the truth / thē now it is: ſpecially conſidering the generall coldnes of men / and the cruell perſecution of the truth / to which this age ſynce is come.
Mynd further / that the Offices / houſes, and maintenance of the Fryers and Nunnes being before (in the time of K. Henry the eight) quite taken away / they were not able in all Q. Maryes raigns to reare them vp agayne. No, albeit they iudged them lawfull and neceſſary aſwell as the other poynts of Popery / and did alſo very earneſtly deſier and labour to have them reeſtabliſhed. So great a matter it is to have a thing aboliſhed in the whole conſtitution thereof: Even as when an houſe is raſed and pulled downe to the very foundation.
And here / vponupon this occaſion let me alſo aſke, Whether if the Callings and Livings of the Prelates and Prieſts / together with the Idoll Temples / and confuſion of all maner people in the body of the Church / now had in England / were ſo dealt with / as the Abbats / Monks / Abbeyes and Nunryes then were: there would not fewer Ieſuites and Seminaryes come into the Land: Popery leſſe increaſe: treaſon againſt her Maieſty be leſſe attempted: and finally / all the meanes and hope for the full replanting of Antithriſts religion agayne in that Church / be vtterly removed and taken away?
Let this Scribe then go and perſwade ſuch as himſelf / that the outward conſtitution of the Church is but as the tithing of Mynt: Anniſe, and Commin, &c. Whoſoever have theyr … exerciſed to diſcerne good and evill / will playnely ſee / that notwithſtanding any thing he pretendeth / yet it is and ought to be accounted among the waighty matters of the Law of God. Yea, that it is of far other importance and conſequence, then moſt men think or will yet be perſwaded: albeit even experience (the Miſtreſſe of fooles) might in all this tyme and tryall have taught them ſufficient / if ynough were ynough for men / In caſes of Religion.
Now for his Reaſon here / any may ſee by that which hath ben ſayd that it is very frivolous and of no waight at all. The Propoſition (or firſt part) hath nothing for the ground of it, but that which is in queſtion, and neyther is alway true nor can be yeelded vntounto for very great and waighty cauſes here before declared. VntoUnto which adde theſe alſo: 1. That many errors in doctrine are and may be far leſſe / then the errors of the outward conſtitution / when they are truly compared together. 2. That the true outward conſtitution of the Church alway implyeth both a ſeparation of the people from the World / and the joyning of them together in the fellowſhip of the Goſpell / and both theſe to be voluntary. Which particulars being conſidered with the former / will teach him not barely to ſet downe / but duly to prove the Propoſition in his next Reply.
The Aſſumption (or ſecond part of the Reaſon) is in ſome fence true, in ſome ſence falſe: and in both, againſt himſelf and their Churches eſtate. When Churches are ſet in the conſtitution and way of Chriſt / if afterward they fall into ſome errour of doctrine / they are notwithſtāding for the former to be reputed true Churches, vntill being admoniſhed they refuſe to heare the voyce of Chriſt and to yeeld to the truth. Thus the Aſſumption is true / and of vsus confeſſed, by the example of the Churches of the Iewes, &c. But when theyr caſe cometh to be ſuch, as they will rather abide in errour then obey the truth and voyce of Chriſt / this ſo wilfull perſiſting ſimply overthroweth ſuch a company from being a true Church in ſuch eſtate. And thus the Aſſumption is falſe / and ſo proved to be / by the example of the ſaid Churches. And both wayes it is agaynſt him and theyr Church: as will yet further appeare by that which is now to be ſpoken of his queſtion wherein he would be reſolved.
He aſketh, VVhat if a company of Arrians, Anabaptiſts, or Papiſts ſhould be gathered and eſtabliſhed in a true outvvard conſtitution, and ſtill retayne theyr fundamentall errors before named: VVhether then their outvvard conſtitution ſhould make them a true Church, Yea or no. I aunſwer / 1. Not onelyonly falſe conſtitution / but falſe doctrine alſo retayned, make a falſe Church. If it were ſo then / that they could have a true conſtitution as he ſuppoſeth / yet by reaſon of theyr falſe doctrine they ſhould be a falſe Church.
2 I aſke alſo of him / Whether theſe companyes of whom he ſpeaketh / were true Churches when they fell into thoſe errors (as were the Churches of Galatia / when the errors about Circumciſion and the Law crept in among them): Or whether they were Hereticks, Sectaryes or the like (ſuch as were Hymeneus, Philetus, Alexander, the Apoſtates of Rome, &c.) falling from the true faith and Churches of God, when they came to be gathered and eſtabliſhed as he fancyeth. If they were of the former ſort, then they are to be eſtemed and admoniſhed as true Churches, till by deſpiſing the voyce of Chriſt / the Kingdome of God be taken from among them Gal. 1.2. vvith. 5.2.4. Mat. 21.33.43. 1 Cor. 1.2. vvith 15.12. Rev 2. & 3. chap. If of the latter then are they no true Churches at all but falſe and deteſtable Synagogues of Sathan whatſoever truth in conſtitution or otherwiſe they ſhall pretend. Rev. 2.9, Act. 20.30. Col. 2.8.23. 2 Theſ. 2.3.7. 1 Tim. 1.19.20. & 6.20.21. and 2 Tim. 2.17.18. and 3.5.6.13. and. 4.14. Heb. 10.38.39. 2 Pet. 2.1.2.3. In de. ver. 18.19. Rev. 13.11. & 17. & 18, chap.
3. In a true conſtitution muſt alway be mynded, a calling by the word of God: a ſeparation from the world: a joyning together in the fellowſhip of the Goſpell, and that by a voluntary profeſſion thereof, and ſubmiſſion therevnto. Now theſe things conſidered / how is it poſible that the Arrians, Anabaptiſts, or Papiſts retayning theyr errours, ſhould yet be gathered and eſtabliſhed in a true outward conſtitution? Can the light of truth have communion with the darkenes of falſehood? Or can Chriſt in his conſtitution, agree with Belial in the errours of Arians, Anabaptiſts / Papiſts, &c. 2 Cor. 6.14.15.16.
4. Finally, if he will not heare our aunſwer nor the Scriptures teſtimony / let him ye… heare Mr Iewell (a Prelate of theyr Church) reſolve his queſtion, in this maner,*Ievvels Reply to Harding. Pag 99 VVithout Chriſt the Church is no Church, neyther hath any right or clayme vvithout his promiſe, no… any promiſe vvithout his vvord. Now this D. B. affirmeth himſelf / that theſe of whom he ſpeaketh are vvithout Chriſt: For he ſayth,†Before in Sect. 3. theyr errors do of theyr ovvne nature cleane aboliſh from Chriſt. Therefore by his owne aſſertion, and Mr Iewels layd together, they can be n… …eue Church / whatſoever faith or conſtitution they ſhould pretend: neyther have they an… right in ſuch eſtate to his bleſſing: Which yet is promiſed to them that are in the true wa… and conſtitution of Chriſt. Mat. 28.20. 2 Cor. 6.17.18. Lev. 26.11.12.
Thus then appeareth, that he doth both ignorantly fever the doctrine wholy from the Churches conſtitution: and that yet when they are conſidered apart (as ſome tymes and … ſome reſpects they may be) each of them, that is / both the doctrine and conſtitution / according as they are true or falſe, avayle directly to the ouerthrowing, or making of the Church to be likewiſe true or falſe / ſo as hath ben declared before. (His crafty putting of faulty here, for fal… will nothing help him / but bewrayeth his corrupt dealing the more. Els let him ſhew in his next, if he can whether ever there were true Church / that ſtood in falſe conſtitution.) Neyther is the obiection of the Iewiſh conſtitution anſwered at all / but remayneth of force againſt them ſtill. And that ſo much the more / as the Churches of England remayne both in fal… conſtitution and in falſe doctrine: for both which they are vnderunder the wrath of God / and all …ound to ſeparate from them. And whoſoever will not ſo do / it remayneth a grievous ſinne vponupon theyr heads: for which they muſt anſwer to God in that day / when he will caſt the Beaſt and falſe Prophet / with all ſuch as have ben ſeduced by them / into vtter deſtruction / to have their part in the lake which burneth with fyer and brimſtone / which is the ſecond death. 2 Theſ, ….10.11.12. Rev. 14.9.10.11. & 17.1.2. & 19.20.21. & 21.8.
D. B. his Preface to the Reader. Section. 7.
Laſtly, concerning our corruptions: As we cannot iuſtifie them to be no corruptiōs, (but muſt needes acknowledge, that there are many yet remaining in our land, which vvere left by that man of ſinne & are as thornes vntounto our ſides, vvhichwhich vve hope God will in time aboliſh):Iudg. 2.3. So dare vve not runne into your extremities, to condempne our Churches for ſuch corruptions, but waight the appointed time of God for the redreſſe thereof. Yet in the meane time, ſo longe as thoſe moſt excellent truthes and doctrines of ſalvation, (for which God make vsus thankfull) are ſtill reteyned and held, as ſoundly as by any Church vponupon the face of the earth (the other errors not ſimply ouerthrovving the ſame, beeing not held of obſtinacy, and being alſo for the moſt part, of great controverſie and diſputation among the learned:) So long I ſay, communion in things lavvfull, is to be kept with them, as before is noted in the example of other Churches: Othervviſe, it vvill come to paſſe, (by reaſon of the*Mat. 25.13 10.23. dieuerſitie in opinions and iudgementes vvhichwhich by the corruption of our nature vve remaine in, in this tabernacle, as hath‡Lev. 4. Pſal. 19.12. bene in all ages, and*1 Cor. 13.9 12. ſhalbe, ſo long as this life of imperfection indureth,) that no communion can euer bee had vvith any Church liuing, no nor any one Chriſtian vvith another: Which to affirme, vvere moſt abſurd and vngodly.
Theſe obſervations beeing conſidered, I doubt not but the Lorde vvill adde a bleſſing to this vvorke, That ſuch as are ſimple hearted, and have exceeded in eagerneſſe of zeale: may ſee theyr extremitie, in ſo raſhly and vnadviſedly ſeparating from, and condempning the Churches of England, ſometymes theyr Nurſes and Mothers, as before is noted: Whereby God may have the glory, & themſelves the comforte, euen the ſalvation of theyr ſoules through Chriſt.
D. B.
The Aunſwer. Now at length D. B. yeeldeth the cauſe himſelf. So great is the truth / and ſo greatly it prevayleth againſt every oppugner thereof. To omit that he confeſſeth / they cannot juſtify theyr corruptions (and yet they can abide in them): he ſayth alſo, they muſt needs acknovvledge that they have many corruptions remayning, vvich vvere left by that man of ſinne, & vvhichwhich are as thornes vntounto theyr ſides. Bleſſed be God / which maketh the enemyes themſelues bring glory and teſtimony to his truth. They are ſo convinced / as he ſayth plainely they muſt needs acknovvledge it. Now therefore let him name them in his next: or confeſſe thoſe to be of them which I have noted hereafter / Pag. 63. &c. Till then, I will onelyonly inferre this herevppon that ſeing they are ſuch as himſelf here graunteth them to be / viz, corruptions of the Man of ſinne / and thornes to theyr ſides, even therefore are all bound to ſeparate from them as being condenmed by the word of God. For hath not the Lord commaunded all his people, wholy to leave the Man of ſinne with all his corruptions / not to partake in any of his ſinnes / not to reſt in any of his vnrighteouſnes, neyther to towch any vncleane thing at all? 2 Theſ. 2.3-12. vvith Rev. 18.4.5.6. Iſa. 52.11. 2 Cor. 6.17. Yea in that very*Iudg. 2.3. Scripture which is here quoted by himſelf / the Angel of the Lord joyneth with thorne to their ſides, deſtruction by there Gods / that is / by their worſhip and religion.
But they hope God vvill in tyme aboliſh them. And ſo do we have too. Yet we muſt remember that the Scripture ſayth, this abolition of them ſhalbe, by the Spirit of the Lords mouth a I … of his Goſpell in the teſtimony of his ſervants. 2 Theſ. 2 8. Rev. 12.11. & 14.6.7.8.12. It is not then the yeelding vntounto them / but the witneſſing againſt them / by which we can hope it faith for the aboliſhment of them. Neyther do we doubt, but they being thus diſcovered, God will alſo ſtirre vp the hearts of Kings and Rulers of the earth (as already in part he hath begun) to hate that whore of Babylon with her abominations, and to make her deſolate and naked. (Rev 17 16.) Yet too, before they come to do this, they have given theyr power and authority to the Beaſt, ād have alſo fought but not prevayled, againſt the Lambe Ieſus Chriſt and them that are on his ſide / his called, and choſen, and faithfull witneſſes. Rev. 17.13.14.
Therefore dare not we runne into theyr extremityes, to allow eyther by word or deed the corruptions of Antichriſt that Man of ſinne / to receyve in our forehead or hand the print of his Nauie or marke of his ordinances, to purſue to death the witneſſes of Chriſt, or any way to approve thereof &c. But we wayte the appoynted tyme of the Lord / for the full abolition and redreſſe of all theſe impietyes. And in the meanetyme / through the grace of Chriſt we witnes againſt them: Yet being both thankfull to God for any truth they hold / and ſory alſo that with it they joyne the abominations of the Man of ſinne / and do ſo ſet a wall between the Lord and themſelues. 2 Theſ. 2.3. Rev. 17.5. Ezech. 43.8.
Where he ſayth they hold moſt excellent truths and doctrines of ſalvation, as ſoundly as any Church vpō the face of the earth: albeit by this it might ſeem they have very yll neighbours / and for ſo large compariſon due proof alſo may well be deſired: yet for the preſent I will but aſke how this ſpeach of his agreeth with the teſtimony of others among them (men of far riper iudgement and better diſcerning) who have teſtifyed of theyr eſtate / and publiſhed that*Demōſtration: in the Preface to the Reader. Albeit many nations vvhichwhich have renounced the vvhore of Rome are heynouſly ſinfull againſt the glorious Maieſty of Ieſus Chriſt, yet there is none in the vvorld ſo far out of ſquare as is England▪ in retayning the Popiſh Hierarchy firſt coyned in the myſtery of iniquity, and that filthy ſinke of the Canon Lavv vvhichwhich vvas firſt invented and patched together for the confirmation and increaſing of the Kingdome of Antichriſt. Alſo, that with them“Mr Gilbyes book. Pa. 29 many religions are mixed together, off Chriſt and Antichriſt, of God and the Divell. That†Letter to Mr Hooker. Pag. 4 vnderunder the ſhevv of inveighing againſt Puritanes, the chiefeſt poynts of Popiſh blaſphemy, are many tymes and in many places, by divers me… not obſcurely broached, both in Sermons and in VVriting. That♣2 Ad non. to Parliam. Pag, 6. although ſome truth be taught by ſome Preachers, yet no Preacher may vvithout great daunger of the Lavves vtter all the truth cō priſed in the book of God. *Ibid.That theyr ovvne Iniunctions. Articles, Canons &c. may not be broken or offended againſt, but vvith more danger then to offend againſt the Bible: That‡Ibid. the Bible muſt hauehave no further ſcope, then by theſe it is aſſigned. That*Demonſtr. in the Prefa, to the Gover they give leave to a man to be any thing ſauing a ſound Chriſtian. That†Admon. to Parliam. Pag 21. theyr publik Baptiſme is f…ll of childiſh and ſuperſtitious toyes. That“Mr Gib…yes book. Pag. 2. they eat not the Lords ſupper, but play a pageant of theyr ovvne, to blynd the people and keep them ſtill in ſuperſtition, to make the ſilly ſoules beleev that they have an Engliſh Maſſe: and ſo put no difference betvvixt truth and falſehood, betvvixt Chriſt and Antichriſt, betvvixt God and the Divell.
Thus do the beſt of them profeſſe and teſtify of theyr eſtate. Shall we then think (as D.B. would perſwade) that there is not any Church vponupon the face of the earth, vvhichwhich doth more ſoundly retayne the truth and doctrine of ſaluation? God forbid. Or doth he meane / as Mr Hooker (a rare conceyted man of the Prelates crew) ſpeaketh of the Church of Rome / ♣Hookers Eccleſiaſt. Policy. Book 3. Pag. 130.that it doth ſtill conſtantly perſiſt in mayne parts of the Chriſtian truth and is of the family of Ieſus Chriſt: Yea *Ibid. Book 5. Pag. 188.that it is doe vntounto her to be held and reputed a part of the houſe of God, and a limme of the viſible Church of Chriſt. If ſuch be D. B. his meaning here / for theyr Church / yet this doth but verify the Proverbe which ſayth / As is the Mother, ſo is the daughter. Ezech. 16.44.
But no matter / ſo long as he can with an hard forehead pretend, that theyr errors do not ſimply ouerthrovv the truth, neyther are held of obſtinacy, but are alſo for the moſt part off great controverſy and diſputation among the learned. Yet marke that he ſaith, for the moſt part. Of them all belike he will not ſpeak it. Or if he ſhould / might he not likewiſe plead for the holding or intertayning agayne of Auricular Confeſſion / Seven Sacraments / Setting vp off candels Reſervation of the Sacrament / Denying of the Cup to the common people / Images in Temples for ornament or remembrance / Monks / Fryers / Nunnes, &c. Or will not the Lutherans (when they are driven to a ſtraite) thus alledge for themſelves? Yea doth not *P. Ma…t. Loc. com. Epiſt. ad Pereg. Lond. Pag. 1128. &c… (againſt whom Peter Martyr did therefore write very ſharpely) thus plead for the very Anabaptiſts? And will not Hooker (think you) pretend as much for his Romiſh Bethal? Or doth he it not in deed / when he ſayth even of Tranſubſtantiation,‡Ho…k. Eccleſiaſt. pol. book. 5. Pag. 1…6. that it is a thing vvhichwhich no vvay can eyther further or hinder vsus, hovvſoever it ſtand? And“Ibid. Pag. 186. that the very thing vvhichwhich ſeparateth vtterly, and cut…eth of cleane from the viſible Curch of Chriſt, is playne apoſtaſy, direct deny all, vtter rejection of the VVHOLE Chriſtiā faith, as far as the Sonne is profeſſedly different from infidelity. Now compare with this alſo / Mr Iacobs Replyes following / Pag. 57. 101. 105. 109. 141. 156. 192. And ſee if theyr plea for the Church of England be not off the the very ſame ſtampe with Mr Hookers for the Church of Rome.
Thus what by the Prelates and theyr Proctors on the one hand / and theſe Phariſaicall dawbing Reformiſts on the other / theyr caſe is come to be ſuch / as all may iuſtly feare leaſt the end of that Church will be / to look back not onelyonly in part / but euen wholy to the Romiſh Egypt and Sodom, and to wallow agayne in the ſame myer / from which they would ſeem a… this tyme to h…e …en waſhed. For it is juſt with God, to make ſuch eate the fruit of there owne way, and to fill them with theyr owne deviſes. Prov. 1.31. And what other thing do the books / pretences / practiſe / and declining of all ſorts both Miniſters and people among them …rtend? Yet Lord / thou God of power, and Father of mercy, work better things for them and among them / if it be thy will.
To that which D. B. pretendeth next of keping communion vvith them in things lavvfull (it being likewiſe objected by Mr Iacob) I hauehave anſwered in the Treatiſe enſuing, Pag. 88. 170. 171. 180. Here onelyonly I aſke, Firſt what one lawfull thing they have, that we have not? Secondly / in what one thing which he counteth lawfull / we can have communion with them in that eſtate, and not ſinne againſt God by partaking withall in the apoſtaſy of the man of ſinne? Of all other things it is moſt like he will ſay / that we might heare many comfortable truths taught by theyr Preachers / and many good prayers conceyved by them. Yet ſuch is their caſe / as we can not do this neyther / but we muſt needs partake with the Miniſtery of Antichriſt: all theyr Preachers (even the beſt) being Prieſts and Deacons / ſo made by the Prelates. Of which ſee more in the latter Treatiſe following, Pag. 188. &c. Not to ſpeak here any further of it: or of theyr Book-worſhip / taken out of the Popes Maſſe-book, according to which they adminiſter the Sacraments / marry / bury / pray, &c. or of the compulſion of all maner people / even the moſt wicked / to be members of theyr Church: or of theyr Church diſcipline, being in the hands of the Prelates / and by the Canon Law: or finally / of the ſeverall offices / entrance / miniſtration / maintenance / of theyr whole Hierarchy. To none of which can any joyne or ſubmit / in any part of Gods worſhip / but they muſt needs partake in evill / even in the ſinnes of Babylon / and of Antichriſt that ſonne of perdition. Such is their conſtitution / and ſuch is the ſtanding of all that continew therein.
Of his laſt pretence, tovvching diverſity of judgement, by reaſon whereof he would perſwade to keep communion with them / I have ſpoken*In the Anſvver to Section. 3. here a litle before. To which now I will adde this onelyonly / that his collection herevpon, viz. that we ſhould therefore keep communion with the Miniſtery / and confuſion of Antichriſt (for of what els ſpeaketh he / if he ſpeak to the poynt in queſtion) is moſt abſurd and vngodly. And will not Hooker (think you) for his Chriſtian Papiſts / and ſome ſuch as Hadrianus for the Anabaptiſts / perſwade likewiſe? And what then are we the nearer? Or what will theſe men do in the end hereof? Ier. 5.31.
This then is not rightly to vſe that diverſity of judgement, wherevnto in many things all Churches and Chriſtians in deed are continually ſubiect here on earth / but ignorantly to abuſe it. But herevnto (it may be)‡Da. Buck. this man was driven / eyther by weaknes of iudgement in himſelf, or by eagernes of contention and malice agaynſt vsus: of whome he hath ſometymes ben / but now for his revolting from the truth and ſo perſiſting / is (according to the*1 Cor. 5.4.5.11.12.13. 1 Tim. 1.19.20. Mat. 18.17.18.20. Scriptures / and ordinance of Chriſt) caſt out from among vsus / and delivered vntounto Sathan / for the deſtruction of the fleſh / that the ſpirit may be ſaved in the day of the Lord. Which mercy the Lord Almighty vouchſafe him in Chriſt / from whom he hath declined vntounto Antichriſt. And this is all the harme I wiſh vntounto him or any ſuch, even theyr repentance and ſalvation in Chriſt Ieſus.
Hitherto of the Preface prefired to Mr Iacobs book. Which I have anſwered, ſomewhat largely / from poynt to poynt / rather for the ſatiſfying of others / then for any waight I judged to be in it my ſelf.
Now it is tyme that I returne to Mr Iacob himſelf / and deale with him in particular: by whom I am ſpoken vntounto and challenged by Name / almoſt in every page of his book: As if he had forgotten the old Proverbe which ſayth, Let not him boaſt himſelf that girdeth his harneſs / as he that putteth it off. Here then ſeing that this diſcourſe came firſt from him to the view of the world, and that alſo without my aunſwer to his laſt Reply, let the Reader call to mynd that which is written / He that is firſt in his ovvne cauſe, is iuſt: then cometh his neighbour, and maketh inquiry of him. Prov. 18.17. So as he now having told his owne tale / firſt / and ſeming to ſome (no doubt) to be iuſt therein / it is nedefull that I therefore come in the next place / and make inquiry of him.
Which I do in the Treatiſe following: ſubmitting it now to the judgement of others / to be examined of all by the word of God.1 Cor. 2.12-16. 1 Theſ. 5.21. By it therefore do thou (Chriſtiā Reader) try all things therein / and keep that which is good. Have no prejudice (I pray thee) eyther of Mr Iacob or my ſelf: but heare vsus both ſpeak / and then conſider what is ſpoken on eyther ſide / from poynt to poynt. And the Lord give thee vnderſtanding in all things.
There is but one way / of truth / to life eternall. And that is in no other but the Lord Ieſus Chriſt,Ioh. 14.6. who hath ſaid, I am the vvay, the truth, and the life, If therefore the Churches of England (as now they ſtand) be in that good and old way preſcribed by Chriſt / wherein the Primitiue Churches were planted by the Apoſtles / then doubtles then are in the way of truth / that leadeth vntounto life. (Yet this hath not Mr Iacob ſhewed in all his diſcourſe.) Ier. 6.16. But now on the contrary / if the Churches of England in theyr eſtate / have in the Ioynes off the Church of Rome and with it departed from that auncyent and good way of Chriſt / and do even vntounto this day ſtand in the apoſtaſy of Antichriſt / and that in theyr publik / Miniſtery / worſhip / ordinances / confuſion of people &c. then can they not ſo ſtanding / be aſſured by the word of God / that they are in the way of truth which leadeth vntounto life / but in the by-wayes of errour which cary headlong to death and perdition. 2 Theſ. 2.3.10.12. 1 Tim. 4.1.3 Rev. 13.11. & 17.1.2. & 22.18.19. vvith Exod 20.4.5. For which cauſe / all the people of God are bound to ſeparate from them / and not to partake in any of theyr ſinnes / leaſt they receyve alſo of their plagues. Rev. 18.4.
And if it be well mynded / Mr Iacob himſelf (howſoever he pretend otherwiſe / yet in deed) yeeldeth thus much / when he is driven to confeſſe that theyr conſtitution is ſuch*Pag. 37. 61 69. 70. 84. 154. as they ſtand in error: and that of Antichriſt: againſt the Second commaundement: in vayne vvorſhip: departing from and denying the faith, in their Miniſtery, &c. But for theſe and all the reſt / thou mayeſt ſee / and I pray thee (good Reader) well to mynd the Arguments / Replyes / and Aunſwers following. From the reading whereof I will not not now any longer hold thee.
The God of peace tread Sathan vnderunder thy feet / and by his word and Spirit lead thee into the way of truth / to the conſervation of thy ſoule vntounto life eternall. And if thou reapeſt any fruit of my labours / give prayſe vntounto God / and pray for me / the weakeſt of his ſervants / and vnworthyeſt of the witneſſes of Ieſus. The grace of our Lord Ieſus Chriſt be with thy ſpirit. Amen.
Thyne in Chriſt, Fran: Iohnſon,