Defense of the Churches and Ministry of England, Reason 1
Mr Iohnſons I. REASON againſt the former Aſſumption: with Mr Iacobs Replies to the ſame.
Hauing before noted 3. Exceptions out of their doctrine and booke alleadged: we nowe proceede to ſhewe the weakenes of their Aſſumption aforeſaid, by theſe. 9. Reaſons following.
REASON I.
THat which ioyneth Christ and Antichrist togeather, can not make a true Christian, 2 Cor. 6.14, 15, 16. with Ezech. 43.8. and 2. Kings 17.33, 34, 40, 41.
Bvt that doth the doctrine and booke alleadged, as may be ſeene by comparing the 35. and 36. Articles with the rest. And furthermore it appeareth both by their profeſſion, which is to be ſeene in their booke of Cannons ſet foorth anno 1571. and in other their Articles, Jniunctions, Aduertiſements, &c. publiſhed at other tymes, and by their practize alſo, which is to be ſeene in their Ministerie, Worſhip, and Church gouernement euen to this day:
Therefore, &c.
H. IACOB his 1. Reply to the 1. Reaſon.
THis your firſt Reaſon is thus: That which ioyneth Christ and Antichrist togeather, can not make a true Christian: But that doth this Booke, Ergo, &c.
I ſay you muſt mende your vnproper ſpeache, that Chriſt and Antichriſt is there ioyned togeather, you meane Chriſt, and ſome outward ceremonies and orders of Antichriſt: then ſo ſpeake, and ſay not Chriſt and Antichriſt ſimply. Which things yet we thinke to be Chriſtes own, as we *Pag. 12. 18. 19.ſhewed in the Second Exception before. Therefore, this reaſon is anſwered as the laſt Exception before. The Swanne is blacke of his bill, Ergo, the Swan is blacke, and my brother hath a wodden legge: Therfore my brother is a wodden man. So here this booke ioyneth Chriſt and ſome orders of Antichriſt: Therefore it ioyneth Chriſt and Antichriſt togeather, which are moſt fonde concluſions.
Furthermore, the ſcriptures alleadged 2 Cor. 6. Ezek 43. 2. Kings 17. are wholy miſmatched, the ioyning there forbidden, is vntounto ſuch idolatrie, as can not ſtande by any meanes with Chriſtian faith, and breaketh moſt directlie the Firſt commandment: Our tranſgreſſion your ſelues do iudge to be but againſt the Second, and ſuch as hath ſtood and may ſtand togeather with true faith as in Maiſter Cranmer, &c. *Namely, the Idolaters in thoſe places ſpoken of.They did not ſo much as profeſſe the written lawe to be their rule, neither for outwarde orders, nor their inward doctrines of faith. But your ſelues knowe, we profeſſe and practiſe that, namely, ſo as is ſhewed before in the Seconde “Pag. 11. 1. 18.Exception. Therfore to applie thoſe ſcriptures in this vntounto vsus, is your great ſinne euen againſt the third Commaundment, which is your common cuſtome, as all doe ſee and pitie, viz. To take the name of God in vaine, by miſuſing his worde.
F. IOHNSON his Defence of his 1. Reaſon.
HIs anſwere here is First concerning the Propoſition of this reaſon, then concerning the Aſſumption: Concerning the Propoſition: First he ſaith, Our ſpeach is vnproper, that Chriſt and Antichriſt is there amongſt them ioyned togeather. Secondly, he taketh vpō him to expound our words and meaning to be thus, Chriſt and ſome outward ceremonies and orders of Antichriſt. To this we anſwere: First, that it is meete that we (not he) expound our owne meaning, whiche togeather with the proprietie of the ſpeech, will afterwards appeare in our defence of the Aſſumption against his anſwere thereto. His anſwere therefore concerning the Aſſumption is this: First, That the things among them which we charg to be of Antichriſt, they thinke to be Chriſtes owne: For proofe whereof, here ferreth vsus to his anſwere to our Second exception going before, whether alſo we referre the Reader for anſwere to him againe. Secondly, forgetting him ſelfe, he graunteth that in deed they be orders of Antichriſt: yet that they are but as the blacknes of the Swannes bill to the reſt of the body. Well then by his owne confeſſion they are of Antichrist, and therefore not Christes owne, as before he ſaide and laboured to prooue. Thus at once both he contradicteth him ſelfe, and ouerthroweth that which he anſwered*Pag. 1…. before to our Second exception.
This were ſufficient to manifest their deceiptfull and euill dealing: But that it may more fullie appeare, ſpecially ſeeing bee would dazell the peoples eyes with theſe mincing wordes (of ſome outward ceremonies & orders of Antichriſt, comparing them with the blacknes of the ſwans bill as if they were but a fewe, and of ſmall moment, Therefore will we reckon vp ſome of their Antichristian enormities and abhominations (for it vere infinite to nomber them all): And then let the Reader iudge of his inſwere and their estate, whether it be not more like the blacke Rauen with a white bill, then the white Swanne with a blacke. Sorie we are that we ſhould thus trouble the Reader, or our ſelues: ſpecially conſidering that alreadie we hauehave mencioned diuers of the particulars following: But ſeeing we are constreyned herevnto by their ſlie and colourable anſwere in this place, therefore can we not but doe it, for the clearer manifestation of the trueth, & better diſcouering of their deceiptfulnes. In which respects we intreate the Reader alſo, to take in good parte, and duely to weigh the repetition and recapitulation following.
Antichriſtian abominations yet reteyned in England.
1 The cōfuſion of al ſortes of people in the bodye of their Church, euen the moſt polluted and their ſeede beeing members thereof.
2 The offices and callinges of Arch L. Biſhops.
3 Lord Biſhops.
4 Suffragans.
5 Prelates Chauncellours
6 Deanes
7 Subdeanes
8 Prebendaries
9 Cannons
10 Petty cannons
11 Chaunters
12 Virgerers
13 Pistlers
14 Goſpellers
15 Queristers men and boyes
16 Organiſtes
17 Organ Flowers
18 Arch deacons
19 Subdeacons
20 Deacons, or half prieſts
21 Priestes
22 Parſons
23 Vicars
24 Curates
25 Vagrant & Mercinarie Preachers
26 Churchwardens
27 Clerkes and Sexions
28 Chaplaynes
29 Doctors of Diuinitie
30 Bachelours of Diuini.
31 Doctors and
32 Proctors in the Prelates courtes
33 Commiſſaries
34 Officialls
35 Registers
36 Summoners with the rest of that Antichriſtian and viperous generation
37 Their Miniſtration of the word, Sacramentes, & gouernment of their church by voriue of the offices aforeſaid
38 The titles of Primate, Metropolitane, Lordes grace, Lordſhip, &c. aſcribed to the Prelates.
39 The inferior Prelates ſwearing obedience to the Metropoliticall ſeas of Cāturburie & York.
40 The inferiour Miniſters when they enter into the Miniſterie promiſing obedience to the prelats their ordināces: and when they are inducted to benefices, confirminge it with their oath
41 The Deacons and Prieſts preſentations to a Lorde Biſhoppe by an Archdeacon
42 Their receyuing of orders of the Prelates, or their Suffraganes
43 Their Pontificall, or Booke of conſecratinge Biſhops, and of ordering Prieſtes & Deacons, taken out of the Popes Pō tificall, where their abuſe of ſcripture to that ende their Collects, Pistles &c. may be ſcone
44 Their making and being made Priestes, with blaſphemie, the Prelates ſaying to them whom they make Priestes, Receiue the Holie Ghoſte, whoſe ſinnes ye forgiue, they are forgiuen, &c.
45 Their confoundinge of Ciuill and Eccleſiaſticall offices and authoritie in Eccleſiasticall perſons
46 Their reteyning and vſing in their publike worſhippe, the Apocrypha Bookes, whiche hauehave in them diuers errours, vntruethes, blaſphemies, & contradiction to the canonicall ſcriptures
47 Their ſtinted prayers, and Leitourgie, taken out of the Popes Maſſe booke, with the ſame order of Pſalmes, Leſſons, Collectes, Pater Noſters, Pistles, Goſpels, Verſicles, Reſponds, &c.
48 The Croſſe in Baptiſme
49 The Hallowed Ponte, Queſtions to the Infants at Baptiſme
50 The Godfathers and Godmothers promiſinge that the childe doeth beleeue, forſake the Deuill and all his workes, &c.
51 Weomans baptizinge of children: which main teyneth that hereſie, that the children are damned, which dye vnbaptiſed.
52 Their howſelinge of the ſicke, and Miniſtring the communion to one alone
53 The Ministring it, not with the wordes of Christes inſtitution, but with other taken out of the Popes Portuis
54 Their ſelling that Sacrament for two pence, to all commers
55 The receyuing of it kneeling, which maketh it an Idoll, and nouriſheth that hereſie of receyuinge their maker, of worſhipping it, &c.
56 Their Ring in Mariadge, making it a Sacrament all ſigne, and Mariadge an Eccleſiaſticall action: thereby nouriſhinge the Popiſhe hereſie, that Matrimonie is a Sacrament
57 Their praying ouer the dead, makinge it alſo a parte of the Ministers duetie, and nouriſhinge the hereſie of prayer for the dend
58 Their churching or purifying of Women, then alſo abuſing that Scripture, The Sunne ſhall not burne them by day, nor the Moone by night
59 Their Gang weeke, and prayinge then ouer the corne and graſſe
60 Their forbidding of mariage in Gang weeke, in Aduent, in Lent, and on all the Ember dayes: which the Apoſtle calleth a doctrine of Deuils, 1 Tim. 4.1, 2, 3.
61 Their Sainctes, Angells, and Apostles dayes, with their preſcript ſeruice
62 Their fastes, and abſtayning from fleſhe on their Eaues, on Frydayes, Saturdayes, Ember dayes, and all Lent through
63 Their diſpenſations from the Prelates courts of Faculties, to eat fleſhe at theſe tymes: Which diſpenſations alſo hauehave this wholeſome caluſe in them, ſana conſcientia, (that is, with a ſafe conſcience:) plainelie ſhewing, that they make it a matter of conſcience. This is another doctrine of Deuills, noted in the ſcripture before alleadged 1 Tim. 4.
64 Their Diſpenſations in like manner to marry in the tymes among thē forbidden, which are noted before
65 Lycenſes from the ſame authoritie, to marrie in places exempt
66 Diſpenſations alſo from thence for Boyes and ignoraunt fooles to hauehave benefices
67 Diſpenſations likewiſe for Nonreſidents
68 For hauing Two, Three Foure, or more benifices, euen tor, quot, that is to ſaye, as manie as a man will hauehave and can gette.
69 Tollerations
70 Patronages of, and preſentatiō to benefices with buying and ſelling of aduouſons
71 Their inſtitutions into benefices by the Prelates, their Inductions, Proxes, &c.
72 Their ſuſpenſations, abſolutions, degradations, depriuations, &c.
73 The Prelates Chauncellours, and Commiſſaries courtes, hauing power to excommunicate alone, & to abſolue
74 Their penance in a white ſheete
75 Their commutation of penance and abſoluing one man for another
76 The Prelates confirmation, or Biſhoping of children, to aſſure thē of Gods fauour, by a ſigne of mans deuiſing
77 The ſtanding at the Goſpell
78 The putting off the cap, and making a legge when the worde Ieſus is read
79 The ring of peales at burials
80 Beadmen at buriah, & hyred Mourners in mourning apparell
81 The hanging & mourning of churches & heerſes with black at burials
82 Their abſoluinge the dead, dying excommunicate, before they can hauehave (as they ſay) chriſtia buriall
83 The Idoll Temles.
84 The Popiſh veſtiments, as Rochet, Horned cap, Tippet, the Surpliſe in pariſhe Churches, & Cope in cathedral churches
85 The viſitations of their Lord Biſhops and Archdeacans
86 The Prelates, Lordlie dominion, reuenues and retinew
87 The Priestes maintetenance by Tithes, Chriſmes offrings, &c.
88 The othes ex officio in their eccleſiaſticall courts, making men ſweare to accuſe them ſelues
89 The Church Wardens othe to preſent to the Prelates, all the offences, faultes and defaults committed in their Pariſhes, againſt thir Articles and Iniunctions.
90 The Prelates rulinge of the Church by the Popes curſed canon lawe
91 Finally, their impriſonning, baniſhing, ſuch as renounce and witnes againſt theſe abominations a foreſaid, and the reſt yet retayned among them.
Thus being constreyned, we hauehave repeated and reckoned vp diuers of the Antichristian enormities ſtill remayning & practiſed in their church: By which the Reader may better ſee and iudge, both of the ſleightnes of their anſwere in this place, and of the blacke constitution of their church. As alſo comparing theſe and the booke by him alleadged togeather, it may hence appeare that our speach is proper; and fitlie declaring their estate, when we ſaide they ioyne Christ and Antichrist togeather: And therfore his anſwere in this place to be friuolous and of no weight.
Next he commeth to the proofe of our Propoſition, which was confirmed by theſe ſcriptures, 2 Cor. 6.14, 15, 16. with Ezek. 43.8. & 2 King, 17 33, 34, 40, 41. The Propoſition which we proued by theſe Scriptures, was this.
That which ioyneth Christ and Antichrist togither, can not make a true Christian.
Nowe let euen the aduerſaries them ſelues iudge, Whether theſe Scriptures doe not ſo euidentlie proue this Propoſition, as none can denie it, but ſuch as are Wilfully blinded, and ſtriue againſt the light of their owne cōſciences But what ſaith he of theſe ſcriptures here alleadged? Forſooth That they are wholy miſmatched. And why ſo? Becauſe the ioyninge there forbidden, is vntounto ſuch Idolatrie, as can not ſtande by any meanes with Chriſtian faith, and breaketh moſt directlie the Firſt commandement: whereas their tranſgreſſion is but againſt the Seconde, and may ſtande with true faith, as he ſuppoſeth in Cranmer, &c. First, this anſwere of his, concerneth our Aſſumption, whereas thoſe ſcriptures were the profe of the Propoſition. But to let this paſſe, let vsus conſider the anſwere it ſelfe, howe worthy and clerk like it is. Theſe ſcriptures (he ſaith) forbid ioyning to ſuch Idolatrie, as can not ſtande with Chriſtian faith, and breaketh moſt directlie the Firſt commaundement. 1. Jf this were ſo, what then? Doe they not therfore forbid ioyning to Antichristian idolatrie, and that falſe worſhip which breaketh the ſecond cōmaundement? 2: Secondlie, he can not denie, but as we iudge of their way and estate, ſo it is a tranſgreſſion against the Second commaundement. Nowe, Samuell ſaith, Rebellion is as the ſinne of witchcraft, and tranſgreſsion is wickednes & idolatry.1 Sam. 19. See then what advantage he getteth by his owne anſwere? 3. Thirdly, as the Pagans Idolatrie breaking the Firſt commaundement, cannot ſtand with true christian faith, ſo neither can the idolatrie and falſe worſhip of Antichrist breaking the ſeconde. To that of Maister Cranmer, &c, is alreadie anſwered in pag. 13. wherevnto may bee added, that their caſe nowe, is nothing ſo as theirs was then: both for that they ſuffered to death for the trueth which they ſawe, And becauſe the things nowe controuerted, were not then ſo called into question and conuinced against them by the ſcriptures, as nowe they hauehave ben against theſe: neither were then by them ſo reſisted and perſecuted as they are by theſe men now adayes, euen vntounto bandes, banniſhment, and death it ſelfe: Otherwiſe we might iustifie the callings and eſtate of the Monkes and Fryars, and of the most Popiſh Prieſtes and Prelates, and the hauing communion with them in that estate, becauſe diuers ſuch hauehave ben Martirs, and layd downe their liues for the trueth which they ſawe, who yet neuer doubted of the lawfulnes of their callings and estate in this behalfe, which then were not ſo called into queſtion, nor convinced by the ſcriptures, to bee vnlawfull, as ſince they hauehave bene. 4. Fourthlie, as there is a double Jdolatrie and falſe worſhip the one against the First commaundement when any hauehave others beſides the true God for their God: the other against the Second commaundment, when anie hauing the true God for their God, yet worſhip him not as hee hath commaunded, but after the inventions and preſcriptions of men: So alſo theſe ſcriptures alleadged, and the whole courſe of the word of God, condempneth the ioyning and hauing fellowſhip with either of theſe, aſwell this which is againſt the Second commaundement, as that whiche is againſt the Firſt. See the Reaſons alleadged by the Apostle:*2 Cor. 6.14. &c. Are they not ſtronge and weightie against ioyning togeather righteouſnes and vnrighteouſnes, light and darkneſſe, Christ and Beliall, whether it be in the breach of the Firſt or Second commaundement? Saieth not the Lord there, That his Church is his Temple, in which he dwelleth and Walketh, and therefore requireth of them that they be his people, his ſonnes and daughters, ſeparated from the world, and touching no vncleane thing: whether it be of Antichrist against the Second, or of the Heathen against the Firſt commaundement?Ezech. 43.8. And touching the place of Ezekiell, who ſeeth not, that he ſpeaketh directlie of the breach of the Second commandement, in ioyning togeather in the worſhip of the true God, their threſholdes with Gods threſholds, and their poſtes with Gods poſtes, that is, their inuentions with Gods ordinances: which though it bee done to the name and for the ſeruice of the true God, yet ſayth the Prophet, Jt is abomination in the ſight of God, and they that doe ſo worſhip him, ſet a wall betweene God & them ſelues, and defyle his holy Name with their abominations. Loe here the vſe and fruict of ioyning togeather the inuentions of men (chieflie of Antichrist that man of ſinne) with the ordinances of God in his worſhipp and ſeruice. As Maister Iacob and his complices like this, ſo let them holde on in pleading for it, and practizing of it. The third place alleadged, is out of 2 King. 17. where alſo it is most plaine,2 King. 17. that the ſcripture ſpeaketh of the breach of the Second cōmaundement. For there is ſet down that the Samaritans worſpipped the bVerſ. 28.32 41.ſame God, and after, cVerſ. 26.27, 29, 33, 34, 40.the ſame manner that the Iſraelites of the Tenne Tribes did, that were carryed from thence: That is, they worſhipped thebVerſ. 28.32 41. true God, butcVerſ. 26.27, 29, 33, 34, 40. not as hee had commaunded, but by hauing Images of ſundrie ſortes, by whiche they thought God was repreſented, asdExod. 32, 4. of olde they thought of the calfe that Aaron made, and by other inuentions deuiſed by the Iſraelites in their defection, and ioyned to Gods ordinances for the worſhip and ſeruice of him. That this was the ſinne of thoſe Samaritans against the Second commandement, will appeare, by cōparing togeather with this chapter, theſe ſcriptures following, to which we referre the Reader, Ezra 4.1, 2. with Exod. 20.4, 5, 6. and 32.1, 4, 5, 6. Jug. 17.2, 3, 4, 5, 13 Ezek 20.39. Hoſea 2.16. Amos 5.21, 22, 23. & 8.14. 1 Kings 12.27. and 18.21. and 21.29. and 22.12, 24. Eſay 10.11. Iohn 4.19, 20, 25, 26, 29, 30. By theſe alſo, as by that of Ezekiell likewiſe may appeare, howe falſe it is, that hee further ſaith, They did not ſo much as profeſſe the written law to be their rule, neither for outwarde order, nor their inwarde doctrines of faith. Jf this were ſo, howe could it bee true, which Ezechiell ſayeth of them, of whom he ſpeaketh, that they ſet their poſtes and threſhalls by Gods postes and Treſhalls, that is, their inuentions by Gods ordinances. Howe alſo was it that the Samaritans, spoken of 2 King. 17. ſacrificed to the true God, euen the Lord God of the Iewes, offering vntounto him burnt offringes, and meate offringes, and peace offringes? Or howe came it, that they ſtill vſed circumciſion, and weyted for the Meſſias to come, as he was promiſed in the writen worde of God: yea knowing alſo and beleeuing, not onelyonly that the Meſſias would come which is called Christ, but alſo that when he came he would tell them all things? The corinthian infidels in deed, as the rest of the Heathen, knewe not the true God, nor his written worde. But it was not ſo with the Samaritanes or Tenne tribes of Jſraell fallen from Judah, as is euident by the ſcriptures and reaſons before alleadged. To that which he next addeth to their profeſſiō & practiſe, Referring vsus to his anſwere in pag. 11, 12, 18 to our Second Exception going before, wee hauehave there anſwered alreadie, pag. 12. 13. and will not therfore repeate it.
OnelyOnly this we adde moreouer, That ſeeing the publique constitution of their Aſſemblies, and estate of their Ministers & people therein, is a moſt impious tranſgreſſion of the Second commandement, which the Lord himſelfe calleth“Num. 15.39 Reue. 11.8. & 17.1, 2, 3, 4. spirituall whoredome against him, yea grieuous iniquitie and hatred of him, threatning†Exod. 20. to viſit it vponupon the Fathers and children ſo remayning, to the Third and Fourth generation: Therefore both by it are the truthes which they profeſſe, made frustrate vntounto thē in this eſtate. Neither will it helpe them to pretend that it is their error in iudgement, (For what abomination is there that might not thus be coloured?) But ſeeing their publike profeſſion & practize is (at the best) a ioyning of Chriſt and Antichrist togeather, as hath bene ſhewed before, therefore neither can they by the worde of God be deemed in this estate, to bee true Christians, on true constituted Churches. And the Scriptures applyed to proue this conſequent, are fitlie alleadged, as hath bene ſeene. Falſly therefore it is, that he ſayth, We ſinned againſt the Third commaundement, in the application of the ſcriptures aforeſaid. That is their owne common cuſtome, and lamentable ſinne, to breake the Third commaundement, in taking the name of God in vaine, not onelyonly by falſifying and peruerting the ſcriptures, but alſo by their Ministration of the Word, Sacramentes, and Gouernment of the Church, by vertue of ſuch offices and callings as Christ neuer appointed in his worde therevnto, but were first deuiſed, and ſtill are reteyned by Antichrist, that ſonne of perdition. Hitherto of his anſwere concerning the proofe of our Propoſition.
To the proofe of our Aſſumption, he“Marke this his ſounde and Scholerlike d…alinge in this place and afterwards. anſwereth not a worde: which yet most of all required anſwere, if he would in deede ſoundlie defende their estate, as he pretendeth. That their profeſſion and practiſe ioyneth Chriſt & Antichrist togeather, we ſhewed in pag. 28 &c. by their Articles, Canons, Iniunctions, Aduertiſements, &c. publiſhed at ſundry times, & by their preſent Ministerie, Worſhip, and Church-gouernement, according therevnto. If this be not ſo, why bringes he not warraunt, for theſe particulers from the Teſtament of Chriſt, and ſo take away the proofe of our Aſumption? Jf this be ſo (as by his ſilence he graunteth and wee are ſure he cannot ſhew the contrarie by the Scriptures) then our Aſſumption ſtandeth firme, and conſequently in this conſtitution, they cannot be accounted true Chriſtians, nor their Aſſemblies ſo gathered, true conſtituted Churches.
H. JACOB his 2. Reply vntounto the 1. Reaſon.
1 IN this your defence of your firſt Reaſon, you would first of all faſten on me a contradiction, for gráunting, that our Church corruptions are from Antichriſt, which againſt your Second Exception, J ſaid wee holde to be Chriſts owne, viz. Becauſe we hold, Chriſt hath giuen his Church that libertie to deuiſe them. Alas it pittieth mee to ſee your ſimplicitie, or it greueth me for your malice; who could not ſee, that there I ſpake in the perſon of our whole Church and ſtate, See Pag. 12. 18. 19.and ſhewed what they held: And here I ſpeake as I thought my ſelfe. This is a ſilly contradiction.
2. Then you ſay, Pag. 25. I dazell the peoples eyes, in ſaying ſome outward orders and ceremoines are from Antichriſt as if they were but a few and of ſmall moment. Therefore you are content to recken them vp full tediouſly God knoweth euen 91. in number: numero Deus impare gaudet. And what of all theſe; will you ſaye therefore, That whoſoeuer holdeth theſe, cannot holde Chriſt vntounto ſaluation. And ſo Mr. Cranmer and the reſt of the Martirs were damned. But if not: Then I ſaye againe, Theſe ſome, theſe 91. are too few and too ſlight, and of too ſmall momēt of them ſelues and of their owne nature to aboliſhe vsus from Chriſt. This ought you to hauehave proued, which you neuer doe, but ſtill your ſpeech is moſt falſe and not vnproper onelyonly, that wee ioyne Christ and Antichriſt togeather: As in the maimed mā before *Pag. 25.noted, there is not life & death ioyned togeather, but liuing things and dead things are, and yet the man aliue and a true man.
3. Then “2 cor. 14. &c Eze. 43.8. … King. 17.33, 34, 40, 41.you will iuſtify your applying the ſcriptures which I ſaid were miſmatched & were meant againſt the Idolatry of the Firſt commandment, not againſt the Idolatry of the Second only, and meerelie, as our Church orders in queſtion are. Therefore theſe ſcriptures cannot inferre any aboliſhing from Chriſt by ſimple holding of the corruptions in our Church: which they doe proue by the ſimple holding of thoſe Heatheniſh Idolatries, whereof they ſpeake. To this you reply in Foure points. (1) Jf theſe places bee meant of Heatheniſh Idolatry, which could neuer ſtand with Gods truth togeather: Yet they forbid all other corruptions against the Second commaundement alſo. That I neuer denyed to be true after a ſort. Theſe places indeed doe forbid the breach of the Second, cō maundement, but not principally, directly and of purpoſe, nor in that meaſure or fulnes. But their immediat purpoſe is againſt the Heatheniſh Idolatry breaking the Firſt commaundement. So that they forbid the breach of the Second commaundemēt, conſequently and proportionatly, but not in that full manner as they doe the Firſt, They forbid the Firſt ſo as that they ſhew there is no communion with God, whilſt men ioyne in ſuch Idolaty: they ſimply forbid the Second, but deny not al communion with God to whom ſoeuer erreth therein. (2) To your Secōd Reply I ſay, make much of it, for my parte, I neuer thought other but our church corruptions are againſt the Second commaundement: your ſecond ſcripture here applied, is of Saul,I. Sam. 1…. a preſumptuous and wilfull offendour: if you make our whole Churches ſo, your ſinne is the greater. (3) Thirdlie, if you meane, anie of Antichriſtes Idolatrie and falſe worſhip, and namelie this in queſtion (the outward corrupt orders and ceremonies onelyonly and no more) doeth aboliſh vsus from Chriſt, and that this can not ſtande togeather with true faith, like as the Pagans idolatrie againſt the Firſt commaundement, can not. Then I denie it vtterlie, you hauehave no proofe in the world for it. And this inwrappeth Maſter Cranmer, Ridley, &c. in the ſame courſe. Your excuſe here pag. 29. That Cranmer, Ridley, &c. forſooke all the corruptions they ſawe. This belongeth to manie Thouſands in England nowe, no leſſe then to them: yea ſurelie there are infinite, that knowe not ſo much of the corruptions, as thoſe learned men did, which yet are not ignoraunt of redemption by Chriſt, &c. Yea your ſelfe Maiſter Iohnſon, though a man of learning, yea knowing our corruptions, and miſliking them a long time before you forſooke vsus, yet I thinke you ſtood not aboliſhed from Chriſt all that while. I pray bee ſo good to poore men, as you may: yea to vsus nowe alſo, aſwell as to your ſelfe and them in thoſe times. Where you ſay, pag. 29. That ſince that time we are conuicted by the ſcriptures. If you meane ſome fewe, that here and there you could pick out; and doe ſinne ſtill, ſpeake to them, threaten them: throwe out your damnatorie ſentence againſt them, But ſmite not all whoſoeuer comes neare you: Beware howe you iudge, leaſt you be iudged: The heart belongeth to God, therefore cenſure not euerie mans conſcience too haſtilie. 4 Fourthlie, you would prooue in your Third Exception before noted, pag. 29. That both the breach of the Firſt commaundement, and of the Second alſo, is forbidden: I hauehave tolde you before, pag. 32, 33. howe it is true, and howe not: Nothing at all to ſerue your turne.
That which you ſay, pag. 30. touching your firſt ſcripture, 2. Cor. 6.14.2 Cor. 6.14 &c. in that ſence and maner as I ſuide, is true, and not otherwiſe. That which of your Second ſcripture (Ezek. 43.8) pag. ibid. you ſay, Ezek. 43.….Who ſeeth not but it ſpeaketh directlie of the breach of the Second Commaundment, ioyning togeather in the worſhip of the true God their inuētions with Gods ordinances, I ſay it is moſt manifeſt, that he ſpeaketh not of the breach of the Second Commandement onelyonly, but alſo of the firſt, wherein men hauehave their inuentions alſo. The Prophet ſheweth verſ. 4. and 7. That God returned to his Temple againe, whence he was departed for the abominable idolatries that had ben there committed before, to ſhew that he would reſtore leruſalem, and the Temple, and worſhip of God againet He meaneth this literally, of the returning of the Iewes after Babilons captiuitie, and of the reedifying of the Temple, and the appointing againe of Gods holy worſhip there: Alſo ſpirituallie he may meane, the erecting of the Chriſtian Church whē they ſhould not fal to ſuch impieties as the Iewes had done nowe in that time before, for the which he had departed away from them. Nowe if we aſke, what were thoſe Idolatours in Ieruſalem and in the Temple before Ezekiels time, for the whiche the Lord forſooke them: it is manifeſt in Ahas, in Manaſſes, and Amon: and in the Kings after Ioſiah, That the Iewes idolatrie was verie Heatheniſh, not onelyonly againſt the Second, but againſt the Firſt Commandement alſo, in ioyning the Heathen gods with the true God of Izraell in their Diuine ſeruice and worſhip: Therefore this place of Ezekiell, is (as I ſay) Not of the breach of the Second commandment onelyonly & ſimplie, as our church corruptions are, but ioinctlie touching the breach of the Firſt alſo. The verie ſame is that your Third ſcripture pag. 30. 2 Kings 17, 33, 34, 40, 41 of the Samaritans Idolatrie, … King. 17.wherein becauſe you are large, I will deferr to explaine it till your Sixt Reaſon following: where is a proper place for it.
4 Laſtlie, in pag. 31. you agrauate the breach of the Second Commandment, as being ſpirituall whordome, &c. But I would hauehave you to know: Things may be miſmatched too cruelly, as well as too gentlie. There is a ſinne both wayes, when things are not called by their proper and right names. Is it true in ſome ſence, eueryevery breach of the Second Commandement, is ſpirituall whordome, as eueryevery wanton word, eueryevery light geſture and countenance, eueryevery immodeſt thought in a Woman, is Adulterie: yet who ſo ſhall angerlie and continuallie ſo call a woman whore, harlot, or baude, that but thinketh, or looketh, or ſpeaketh too vainly, ſhall doe her great wronge, and in…e the iuſt daunger of lawe. Neither can ſhee, nor ought ſhee, in ſuch caſe, be diuorced, as an Adultereſſe ought. And thus it appeareth … ſtill, that you ſinne again ſtabe Third Commaundment in miſapplying of ſcriptures.
In the ende in pag. 31. where you ſaye. To the proofe of your Aſſumption I anſwere neuer a worde, which most of all required anſwere. This I tell you, that it is your fancie and not my meaning heere, to anſwere to your Propoſition. Firſt, and then to your Aſſumption to ſay nothing. Nay, if you had not dreamed, you might eaſilie hauehave perceyued that all my firſt wordes (viz. where I ſay your ſpeech here is vnproper &c.) are bent directly againſt your Aſſumption and the proofe thereof. although at this time I expreſſed not thoſe termes. Secondly, I ſhewe, that your ſcriptures applyed to proue the Propoſition are altogither vnfitt, and intollerably abuſed, if you meane them in that ſence as your Aſſumption muſt be meant, that is to ſay, as they touch vsus. This, a verie childe might hauehave ſeene, Maiſter Iohnſon. So that your marginall ſcoffe at my ſound and ſchollerlike dealing. doeth light on your ſelf, and bewrayeth eyther your deepe ſkill or your ouerflowing charitic. As for the reſt, That I ſhould iuſtifie our corruptions, it is no part of my minde, neither belongs it to our preſent cauſe ſo to doe.