Defense of a Treatise Touching the Suffering and Victory of Christ, Part 1 (3 of 4)

Defense of a Treatise Touching the Suffering and Victory of Christ · Part 1 (3 of 4)

p. 80After this c he impugneth another reaſon of myne with marveylous ſkorne and deteſtation.Pa. 183.284. That ſeeing Chriſt d on the Croſſe ſpoyled principalities and powers,Col. 2.15.Col 2:15 and made a ſhew of them openly triumphing over them. Therfore I collected, that Chriſt there diſcerned and felt the Powers of darknes (Sathan and his Complices) as very inſtrumentes working the effectes of Gods wrath vponupon him ſelfe. Which as I conceave, is no ſuch fooliſh nor impious reaſon as he vainly pretendeth. For doth not the very phraſe and maner of ſpeach import ſome ſuch mightie contention and violent oppoſition, where yet at length an abſolut & glorious triumphant victorie was obtayned? Surely it doeth. This then muſt p. 81be conceaved and felt by Chriſt: neither could theſe be other effectes but onelyonly of Gods proper wrath, ſeveritie, and indignation againſt the ſinne of the world, which was matter ofaaOf ſom paine a tormen… oppoſition againſt Chriſt at that ſeaſon; it could not be the revealing of anie glorie or comfort, which ſuch inſtruments procured vntounto him & wrought vponupon him. Againſt this you bring not a word. Nevertheles your high diſdaine towards me, breaketh out touching the maner how this might be. But what is that to the purpoſe? What if no toung can expreſſe the maner, as neither have I once indeavoured to expreſſe it: ſhall not therefore the teſtimonie of the H. Ghoſt be true, that on the Croſſe Chriſt obtayned ſuch a victorie againſt the Divells, which implyeth alſo ſuch a Conflict firſt, as I have obſerved?

Yet becauſe you will needes examine the maner howe poſſibly this might be, let vsus ſee what you make of it. The Divells (ſaye you) have nothing to doe with the Soules of men, but eyther to tempt them or torment them. Firſt, before I anſwer you directly, this wee may conſider: Chriſt might and no doubt he did in his Soule diſcerne, conceave, and applie to him ſelfe all the rage, malice,How Ch… might be faulted by than on Croſſe. and violence of the Iewes tormenting him to death, as ſet on fire by Sathan him ſelfe, and by all the powers of Hell: and theſe alſo as ſet on worke by the Iuſtice and ſevere Wrath of God now purpoſely laying puniſhment on his Sonne, thereby to take ſatisfaction and recompence for all our ſinnes. Now this feeling and ſuffering in the Soule of Chriſt, made an other kinde of impreſſion in him, and was infinitly more greevous and dolefull as touching the preſent ſenſe then otherwiſe the meere outward ſtripes and woundes of men were or could be. Theſe conflictes of Chriſt on the croſſe with Satans rage & malice, laboring if he could poſſibly by theſe meanes to have quēched the light of our Salvatio, may wel be vnderſtood by the Apoſtle in this place: & yet none of your exceptions do touch this argument. Elſwhere in your book you ſpeak directly againſt y^e maine groūd of it: affirming that God himſelf did nothing to Chriſt, that is, he did not pperly puniſh him. Thus you ſay,bbPag. 3… God did not any thing vntounto him. And,ccPag. 32. who did Crucifie him, I pray you, God, or the Jewes? And,ddPag. 7… He was indeed cōdemned by man that gave wrongful ſentence of death againſt him: but he was acquit…ed of God. AndeePag. Chriſt was no more a Curſe then he was Sin: who indeed p. 82and with God was neither: …roper… …hed …ſt. …or 5 21but with men he was reputed both wicked and accurſed. Notwithſtanding the very trueth and Gods word it ſelfe is flat contrary to you. For it is written: a Hes made him Sinne for vsus which knew no ſinne, that we ſhould be made the righteouſnes of God in him. Yea, b he made his Soule ſinne. Which is nothing els but that c the Lord layd vponupon him or inflicted vponupon him the iniquitie of vsus all. … 53 10. …. 6.5.10. …rem. in …. 8. …. 4 28. …m. 8.3.Yea, d the Lord delighted to bruiſe him, and afflicted him or ſlew him. And the Apoſtles doe acknowledge that e both the counſell and the Hand of God was in Christs puniſhment. Finally, f God ſending his Sonne in the ſimilitude of ſinfull fleſh and for ſinne, …iac.condemned ſinne in (* his) fleſh. His Cōdemning of ſinne in Chriſt was in deeds, and not in words. Gods own hand then did ſmite Chriſt, and inflicted on him whatſoever he ſuffered as the condemnation of ſinne. Where yet we imagine not that God was moved with any affection or perturbation, …g. 245.but (as f you acknowledge) the puniſhment or dayned for ſin by the Iustice of God, and inflicted by the hand of God (whatſoever meane it pleaſed him to vſe) is called the wrath of God. And then howe may we thinke Gods infinite Iustice & power puniſhed Chriſt? Surely in all ſuch reſpectes as he was capable of paines and puniſhments as from God. Wherefore in his ſpirit certainly he ſuffered ſpirituall and incomprehenſible puniſhmentes being no ſinnes, ſuch as Mens ſoules are ſubiect vntounto as from God. In his Body alſo he felt bodily afflictions, wch our bodyes can apprehend. Some God himſelfe immediatlie inflicted, ſome hee inflicted by meanes and inſtrumentes: but ſtill it was his Hand principally which did what ſoever was done vntounto him. Neither can you ſay that Chriſts puniſhment was Gods meere and bare permiſſion only. Nay his puniſhment was his revealed and written will, his expreſſe and publike ordinance, and moſt holy appointment from the beginning of the world: and now at laſt effected by his owne hand, and by other meanes, when the fulnes of time was come. Wherefore the whole ſuffering of Chriſt was Gods owne and moſt proper action: The wicked Iewes and Divells were only his inſtruments to doe that which he ſet them on worke to doe, though they thought not ſo. Now we come to anſwer you more directlie touching the text in hand. Where you would intimate that Chriſt on the Croſſe was not tempted by the powers of Hell, becauſe Chriſt could not b… p. 83tempted by Satans inward ſuggeſtion, but onelyonly by the care receaving an outward voyce: This I ſuppoſe alſo is a ſingular conceit of your owne without any title of Scripture to proove it by. Yea what reaſon can you give that where the minde conceaveth any temptation, there of neceſſitie muſt be Concupiſcence, Originall ſinne,aaPag. 1 Corruption of the fleſh, &c. In vsus men it is ſo, you ſay. I grant in vsus it is ſo. But that of neceſſitie in nature it muſt be ſo, or that Adam was tempted by voyce of neceſſitie, and not accidentally; I ſee no reaſon in the world: or that Chriſt might not be ſometime inwardly aſſaulted & tempted alſo without heaving any voyce. Nay I ſuppoſe you have no reaſon to affirme (asbbPag▪ 1 you doe) that Chriſt in the Wildernes was tempted by Sathan by outward voyce only. It ſeemeth rather to be manifeſt that his temptation was meerely in cogitation and in the thoughts of his heart ſo mooved by the**Or els b… ſuch out… obiects t… ther, w^t … work tha… rituall c… tion in C… As Satā … well kno… how. ſpirituall ſuggeſtion of the Divell. Firſt, becauſe the text ſaith, that SatanccMat. …. ſet him vponupon a pinnacle of the temple in Ieruſalem, and mooved him to cast him ſelfe downe. Which was within the time of his faſting, and hee faſted but fourty dayes and fourty nights: and ſo long continually hee wasddMarc. in the wildernes. Seeing then Chriſt was in the Wildernes all the while that hee was thus tempted, Howe could that bee really and actuallie done? This was therefore in a ſpirituall Cogitation. But chieflie, when theeeMat. 4.Matt 4 Divell ſhewed him all the kingdomes of the worlde and the glorie of them, andffLuc. 4.Luke 4 that in the twinkling of an eye, how could that††Yea, ſibly it … be don … ally &c ficell… a… you. But onles it … be. Ergo… poſſibly be done really, actually, and externally? Wherefore I muſt needs think that as Satan was a ſubtil Spirit, ſo he could & did ſometime ſpiritually ſuggeſt temptations into Chriſtes heart, and Chriſt could in Soule conceave them, and yet vtterly without all ſin: which we at no hand now can doe, becauſe we are all naturally apt and inclining to evill, as Chriſt was not. Yea the text to the Hebr. ſeemeth to prove it alſo, Chriſt was tempted in all things like vsus, without ſinne. Then he was tempted both outwardly and alſo meerely within: (for ſo are we) and this was meerely by conceaving and conſidering of Satans wicked ſpirituall motion in his Spirit, which it was poſſible that he might doe without any yeelding to it, though we by reaſon of our inborne corruptiō can not poſſibly doe it. Thus then it was poſſible, and moſt likely it is alſo that Chriſt was aſſaulted, and wrastled withall by the Divels p. 84ſpirituall ſuggeſtions now when in moſt bitter Agonic he hanged on the Croſſe. Howbeit to goe further, ſuch grievous and bitter aſſaultes of the Divel he might receave outwardly alſo by his ſenſes other wayes: though not by Satans own voyce, yet by Satans members meanes. And ſoaa…ag. 283. you ſay he was tempted of Satan all the tyme of his abode on earth. Then ſo you denie not, but now even on the Croſſe Chriſt might be and was tempted and aſſaulted by Satan, that is by Satans inſtrumentes, moved and inraged by him. And this is none other indeed, but that which in the entrāce of††Pag. 77. this queſtion heere I obſerved: which as I have before ſhewed ſufficeth to prove Chriſtes Combating, as it were, and wrastling with the powers of Hell on the Croſſe. ButbbPag. 284. you obiect againſt this, that Outward temptation by the mouthes and handes of the wicked, is no effect of Gods wrath. No is? Here you are cleane contrary to your ſelf and the truth. ElſwhereccPag. 243.…63.275. you truly acknowdge that all outward croſſes and afflictions ſmall or great are in their nature puniſhments of ſin and effects of Gods wrath. Now thoſe doubtles are temptations. Then ſure theſe outward temptations by the mouths and hands of the wicked ſuch as Chriſt indured, are effects of Gods wrath, viz. his revilings, his ſhame, his poverty, his ſtripes, his woundes, and death it ſelfe, &c. You ſay outward temptation is rather a try all of Gods gifts and graces bestowed vponupon vsus. And is not inward temptation in the Godly ſo to? I pray what oddes is this, that you make betweene the inward and outward temptations? It is true, this is one good vſe of both theſe fortes in the godly, in whom Chriſt hath ſanctified all afflictions, & death it ſelfe. Yet in their very nature they all are none other but partes of Gods Curſe for ſin, very puniſhments of ſinne, and true effects of Gods wrath: as in Chriſt they were all. Further Satan might ſpiritually and extraordinarily worke togeather with theſe his inſtruments outwardly afflicting his body, I ſay, by theſe bodily occaſions thus the rather working an impreſſion of his malice and ſpirituall fury mixed with ſubtilty againſt Chriſt: and Chriſt likewiſe extraordinarily might apprehend the ſame, that is the rather by the concurrence and cooperation of thoſe outward occaſions with theſe ſpirituall incurſions. And thus might Chriſt ſuffer moſt ſtrange temptations, and incomprehenſible ſorrowes, as very puniſhmentes of ſinne from the furious rage of Satan and malice of wicked men, whatſoever other vſes they might have beſides in p. 85him. Heere now we may ſeed row vniuſtly you conclude that Satan could no other way aſſault Chriſt as an inſtrument of Gods wrath, butaaThe ve… wraſtlings aſſaults of … tan may b… ritual …orn… though … ſuch as ar… ecuted in locall He only by executing tormentes on his Soule even in ſuch wiſe as he tormenth damned ſoules in Hell: and that cā be, ſay you, no other way then by Satans very poſſeſſing of thoſe ſoules. Which groſſe and infernall ſpeculations of yours (for truthes you can not make them) I vtterly leave to your owne diſcuſſing. For my parte I have ſpoken no word of them in all my treatiſe. Notwithſtanding this heere I avouch, that howſoever the meanes or maner was of Satans and his furious bandes aſſaulting of Chriſt on the Croſſe, it made certainly an impreſſion of moſt doleful ſorrow and torment in his Soule, as feeling & diſcerning by that meanes the very ſtroke of Gods owne hand vponupon him, and receaving the ſting of his wrath and indignation therein, which then wrought, and was revealed chiefty then vpō him for all our ſinnes. Neither ſay you any thing whereby you doe or can overthrow this aſſertion. Our authoriſed doctrine in England agreeth with me, ſaying,bbNowe… Catech. He fought and wrastled as it were hand to hand with the whole army of Hell. Finally heere where you skornfully reiect and deteſt this my ſenſe of the Apoſtle in this place, yet you give no inkling of any other ſenſe at all which theſe wordes might ſeeme rather to admit. Wherefore this is more then halfe a concluſion againſt you, that my interpretation and application of it is vniuſtly by you reproved.

ThenaaPag. 2… you come to confute my fourth Reaſon: but the maineſt points thereof you have not ſo much as touched. 1 IbbTreat… pa. 45. ſhewed that the Godly ſometimes in this life doe feele a taſt of Gods infinit Wrath, and even of Helliſh ſorrowes. 2. That Chriſt our Redeemer ſuffered for vsus as deeply, yea deeper then ever any of vsus heere do ſuffer or can ſuffer. But all this you can heere cleanly paſſe over without any worde to it. Wherevpon it followeth ſoundly, that Chriſt indeed ſuffered in Spirit the true effects of Gods wrath, and even the ſenſe of Helliſh ſorrowes. Howbeit in an other reaſon of mine not vnlike to that, you thinke you can picke more advantage againſt ſome wordes. I ſhewed out of the Hebrues that Chriſt ſuccoureth vsus not but wherein he had experience of our temptations and infirmities. Now he ſuccoureth vsus even in the feeling of the terrours of God and ſorrowes of Hell in our Soules. Therfore he himſelfe p. 86had experience of the ſame: pa 66. &I meaue c alwayes ſo far as was poſſible: that is in the extremitie of the ſorrow & paine thereof, no further: Where note that the wordes of this Propoſition are not any whit more generall, neither include they any thing leſſe tolerable then the text it ſelfe doth,…eb. 2.17. thus: d Wherefore in all things it behooved him (or he ought) to be made like vntounto his brethren, …ebr. 4.15. …om. 8.19. …ch. 20.2…e like in temptations, infirmities, and f afflictions, only except ſinne: that he might be a mercifull and faithfull Highpriest in things concerning God. For in that which himſelfe ſuffered and was tempted (in) he is able to ſuccour 1them which are tempted. Firſt, en hó in that which himſelfe ſuffered, ſignifieth either the matter wherein Chriſt is able to ſuccour vsus, or 2the meanes whereby he becommeth able, that is to ſay, ready and 3ſit to ſuccour vsus, or els the occaſion and reaſon why hee is the readier to ſuccour vsus: even in that himſelf ſuffered and was tempted, he is able to ſuccour them who are tempted. As if hee ſhould ſay, were it not that himſelfe by his owne feeling knew the miſery of our ſufferings and temptations, he had not ben ſo ready to ſuccour vsus in all ours, not with ſuch compaſſion, as now he is. Which way ſoever of theſe 3 we take theſe words, yet they plainly inferre that Chriſt himſelfe felt all the miſery and ſmart of our ſufferings and temptations which we at any time do feele, & wherein we are ſuccoured. Thus as I have ſhewed (neither do you gainſay) The godly ſometimes feeling an infinit paine of Gods * wrath and of Helliſh ſorrows in this life:…o their …e it ſee…h …well. …ch. Chriſt therfore felt the ſame indeed to ſuccour vsus thereby. Wherevnto ſerveth our publike doctrine, g Diram execrationem quâ ſcelera nos nostra de vinxerat in ſe ſuſcepit, vt eâ nos hoc pacto exolveret. Albeit heere the firſt way ſeemeth to mee not the vnlikelyeſt, that the Apoſtle ſhould ſignifie All the matter namely that kind of paine wherin he ſuccoureth vsus, even that which himſelfe alſo had experience of. And this alſo thoſe wordes kata panta in all things doe fully import. But indeed all; are but one & the ſame in effect as I ſaid. Sec: we muſt note that in theſe words Chriſt was like vsus in All temptations and afflictions, we are to vnderſtand h All that are incident to Mankind generally: … before …. 48. &cnot which happen to any man particularly. All the particular Croſſes in the world, neither could nor can poſſibly come to any man. Alſo, that he ſuffered not only in one or in ſome partes of our nature, but in All and every parte, even in Spirit, and Soule and Body, like as we p. 87are apt & able to ſuffer. Againe, all the particulars which by Gods providence he ſuffered not, were farre leſſe in paine & terrour then the generall paines were, which he did ſuffer. And thus right well is Chriſt ſaid to be like vsus in all our temptations and ſufferinges: that is, at leaſt like vsus, indeed beyonde vsus in all the extremity and violence of them, and exceeding much more deepely plunged therein. As well therefore you might have given a good ſenſe of my wordes (if you had had any minde thereto) as of theſe generall and large wordes of the Scripture wherevpon I ground my ſelfe. But very chariritably you can inferre vpō my reaſon, Then Christ had his eyes put out for ſo had Sampſon he was ſwallowed vp by a Whall, for ſo was Ionas: he was cast into a burning furnace, for ſo were Sidrac, Miſhac, & Abednego he was ſtoned to death, for ſo were Naboth and Steven. In deed I had bene as fooliſh and as doltiſh as you doe make me, if I had treamed ſo. Care vsus therfore I pray that indifferencie which all reaſon and vſe of ſpeach permitteth: namely that general termes be vnderſtood according to the poſſibilitie and propabilitie of the matter. That is, that the Apoſtle and I both doe ſpeake of All the ſufferinges of Mankinde in generall, and of each parte of Humane Nature apt to ſuffer but not of every particular in each of them, or which each mā meeteth with all. Then where**Pag 287 you examine me, what I m…ane whether Chriſt be not able or not willing to ſuccour vsus in other thinges then hee him ſelfe did ſuffer. Mine anſwer is; Aſke the Apoſtle what hee meaneth in ſaying kata panta, in all things it behoued him to be like his brethren, that he might be a mercifull and faith full Highpriest: and dyna… as he is (thus) able to ſuccour vsus, as if he ſhould ſay; Hee was not any otherway able, then in that him ſelfe hath alſo ſuffered being tempted in all things kata, homotótet a like vntounto vsus. How be it I vnderſtand him not to ſpeake heere of Chriſts abſolu: Omnipotency; what he could have done (as God) if he would: But of his ability by diſpenſation receaved in his Manhood by the Ordinance and appointment of God. As if he ſhould ſaye, Thus hath God appointed him & inabled him to ſuccour vsus, and not otherwiſe. Where we will not ſticke to grant you your ſenſe, that hee might be the better able to have compaſſion on vsus. In effect theſe expoſitions differ not much. And thus this Scriptured truſt is cleered, and my Reaſon iuſtified, Christ ſuccoureth vsus not in any extreamer p. 88kinde of paine them him ſelfe had experience of. Which alſo …ough All ge…rally feele …t, yet gene…lly it is due … All in re…ect of ſinne.But he ſuccoureth vsus in the … feeling of the terrours of God, hee releaſeth vsus of the paines and ſorrowes vnmeaſurable that riſe thereof. Therefore him ſelfe had experience of them. This ſame alſo ſundry of the Fathers avouch with vsus moſt fully: and even thoſe which your ſelfe brings for a your ſelfe.Pag. 25. Cyrills wordes before touched are moſt large,Cyrill. The…ur. 10.3. Omnia Christus perpeſſus est, vt nos ab omnibus liberaret: Christ throughly ſuffered all ſuch paſsions (which men doe ſuffer) that he might deliver vsus from all. Humane …ature.All the paſsions of † fleſhe were ſtirred in Christ yet without ſinne, and ſo that vnles he had dyed we had not bene delivered from death, vnles he had feared and ſorrowed we had not ben quitt from feare and ſorrowe. Heere he ſaith, all our paſsions were ſtirred in Chriſtes humane nature, even ſo farre as we are cured, and ſo farre as might bee without ſinne in him. Then I hope by Cyrills iudgement the ſenſe of the true curſe and proper wrath of God for ſinne was in Chriſtes Soule; ſo faire as it might be painfull and not ſinfull: ſeeing Men are ſubiect to this ſuffering as the moſt ſharpeſt among others. Laſtly by Cyrill here we ſee that vnles Chriſt had felt the ſame ſuffrings which we feele and are cured of, we had not bene delivered of them. This alſo I am ſure fitteth not your opinion, That one drop of Christes bloud was ſufficient for our whole redemption. Which was one of your principles in your preaching, but in your book you skip it cleane, I know not how.…ag. 25. 26. Next we may ſee that c your place of d Ambroſ… is alſo fully to the ſame effect.Luc. de …tic. dol. …. A litle after his e former words he ſaith The ioy of the eternall Godhead being parted away from him, Chriſt was affected with the redio…ſnes of my infirmity. …fore pa. 48He tooke vponupon him my ſorrow, that he might give mee his ioy, and he abaſed himſelfe to the ſorrow of death in our manner, that by the ſame meanes in him he might bring vsus to life. He ought therfore to take ſorrow that he might overcome ſorrow, and not exempt himſelfe from it, & that we might learne in Christ to ouercom the ſorrow of death approching. Wherefore Chriſt exempted himſelfe from nothing in his Paſſion that we hauehave experience of as touching Paines and ſorrowes. And by the ſame ſufferings in him ſelfe for vsus, he healeth vsus, wherevnto we are ſubiect by reaſon of ſinne. So that thus (in his agonie) hee wrought with a deepe effect, that becauſe in his fleſh hee killed our ſinnes, he might alſo with the ſorrow of his Soul extinguiſh the ſorrow p. 89of our Soules. To this very purpoſe alſoaaPag. 47.4… Na…anz. Fulgent. Barnard. Tertull. Ierom. many others before rehearſed do affirme moſt fully. Neither is this taking of their ſentences any whit to abuſe the Fathers, w^ch youbbPag. 86. are afraid of. You greatly abuſe them which take them otherwiſe: namely as if they meant that by the fleſh and bloudſhed of Chriſt meerely & alone without the merit of his Soules and Mindes proper ſuffering, our whole Ranſom were paid. As for our comparing the paines of Chriſts ſuffering with the paines even of the Reprobats in this life, I ſee not that you nor any man living can finde fault therewith: onelyonly ſet aſide their ſinfull ſuffering, which alwayes I teſtifie that Chriſt was moſt free from. Yea I doubt not but we may compare Chriſtes ſufferings in his Agonies touching vehemency of paines even with thoſe of the Damned in hell.What the o… is between… Chriſtes Su… fering & … Damned. Only I conceave betweene Chriſts, and theirs this odds: 1 They ſuffer ſinfully, 2 Perpetually, 3 Locally in Hell. All which being excepted▪ otherwiſe Chriſt ſuffered altogither as bitterly & as ſharpely (yea I may ſay in nature the very ſame) as the Damned doe: which therefore may well be called the paines of Hell, although yet Hell indeed doeth differ in ſome great and waighty circumſtances, as is aforeſaid. If you ſay, the extreameſt paines of puniſhment cānot be where ſinne is not. That is true: neither in deed can the leaſt paines be where there is no ſinne: and that no more in the Body then in the Soule, though this pleaſe not you. Marke what I ſay, The extreameſt paines of al may as poſſibly be inflicted where no ſinne is, as the very leaſt, & that as well in the Spirit as in the Body. But in trueth neither the one nor the other is poſſible. Neither the greateſt nor the leaſt paines of Gods proper vengeance for ſinne can be inflicted or ſuffered at all in Soule or in Body, but only where ſinne is. That is to ſay, either imputed or inhaerent. Ordinarily the Reprobat are thus puniſhed, where ſinne is inhaerent. Extraordinarily and ſingularly by Gods owne ſpeciall ordinance Chriſt was even thus puniſhed, yet where ſin was but imputed. And thus therefore Chriſtes Soule for meere paine might ſuffer the extreameſt ſpiritual puniſhments (altogeather as well as his body might ſuffer any at all) without inhaerent ſinne. But you graunt his body ſuffered truely puniſhments for ſinne. Therefore his ſoule might ſuffer alſo, even thoſe of the extreameſt degree. Your““See be… pag. 14. ſelfe alſo granteth that Chriſt both might and did ſuffer the extreameſt paines that might bee, p. 90without his owne ſinne. But it was poſſible for him to conceave and feele in his a minde farre greater ſorrowes and paines for our ſinne from Gods wrath,…at. …. … 26. then hee could feele meerely in his body outwardly. And the greateſt was no more ſinne then the leaſt, though both were properly for ſin. Therefore by your own grant, Chriſt might and did feele and indure the greateſt ſorrowes of the minde and ſoule as well as the leſſer in the body, being all the very effectes of the wrath of God againſt ſinne.…ag. 102. b You bring a reaſon againſt this, that God ſpiritually puniſheth no man but for his own vncleannes: which is a thing meerely vntrue. For though no other man was ever puniſhed without his owne vncleannes, neither ſpiritually nor corporally, yet Chriſt our Saviour was: who in this caſe was not in the ordinarie ſtate of men. But I pray ſhewe me this myſterie how it is that God cānot puniſh Spiritually where there is no inhaerent ſinne, but can and may Corporally where there is none: All the reſt of your aſſertions c heere are altogeather of this ſute.…a 101, 102 …03, 105. …66. 94. By this one reaſon I weakened all yours, but you could paſſe that by,To this ef…ct. Treat. 1 …ag. 41, 43. anſwering vntounto it not a word. Ʋiz: d If Chriſtes body hanging on the Croſſe, and held by Death in the grave, was puniſhed by God where yet he found no ſinne, and which he ſtill intierly loved and was never ſeparated frō, then ſo hee might & did puniſh properly his Soule alſo, & yet never divide his Godhead nor his love from it. But thus he did to his body: therefore even ſo hee might doe, and did to his ſoule properly alſo. For the one ſtandeth with Gods iuſtice, and with the Nature of man in Chriſt, aſwell as the other. So farre for this.

Then e you addreſſe your ſelfe againſt another,…ag. 289. even one of the chiefeſt reaſons of mine: which I make from the ſtraunge and incomparable Ago…ies of Chriſt in the tyme of his Paſſion. Theſe invaded him, as we read, principally at 3. times:

1. in the foretaſt of his Paſſion, ſhewed vsus in the 12. of Iohn.

2. In the Garden a little before his apprehenſion.

3. In his very extreame Paſſion it ſelfe on the Croſſe.

The Scriptures f heeretofore I rehearſed at full,Treat. …. …ag. 49. 50. …oh. 12.27. Mat. 26.39. and 44. Mark. 14.33 …uk. 22.44. and 43. Mat. 27.46. …eb… 5.7.Matt 26:39Matt 26:44Mark 14:33Matt 27:46 & whence theſe piteous and vnſpeakeable Agonies of his are notified vntounto vsus. Whereby to all (that duely conſider) it appeareth ſo cleare as the Sunne at noone day, that The paines of his Paſſion… which plainly now he felt, and feared, (becauſe he knew he was to feele them further vntounto death) were the proper and direct cauſe of p. 91thoſe Agonies. But we aſſume, that ſuch ſtraunge and lamentable things and behaviour in Chriſt were not the effectes only and meerelie of his bodily paines and death, or of the feare of them. Therefore Christ felt and indured more then his meere bodily paine and death, by the teſtimonie of the Scriptures, which thingaaBefore 14.25.5 you deny. In your whole diſcourſe you gainſay**Pag. 17 22. 23. 2… 34. &c. the Propoſition, that the paines of Christes Paſſion, or the naturall feare of them, was the proper and direct cauſe of thoſe Agonies: or that theſe Scriptures doe imply ſo much. The Aſſumption you graunt and acknowledge, that the meere bodily paines and death of Christ or the feare thereof, were not the only, nor the proper and direct Cauſe of theſe Agonies in him. ForbbPag. 29… you are reſolved that the cauſe of Christes Agonie could not proceede but from his Submiſſion to God or Compaſſion to men, or frō both. Theſe you name elſwhere a ccPag. 23. …religious Feare, ddPag. 124. 20, 21.Devotion and Pietie to God, pitie to men, &c. And thus you reſolutely denie my Propoſition. For you meane it ſeemeth that Chriſt ſuffered paines in his Soule by reaſon of the ſtrength and zeale of theſe his Holy Affections: and that theſe were the proper and maine Cauſes of that his moſt wofull and miraculous Agonie & Complaint. Therfore not any extraordinarie Paines inflicted vponupon him by way of proper puniſhment, as my Propoſition intendeth. But this your Aſſertion I ſimply denie, that Chriſtes Holy Affections, his Piety and his Pity were the proper and maine Cauſes of that his moſt wofull and miraculous Agonie & Complaint. And then my Propoſition ſtandeth firme, that his Paines inflicted on him by way of proper Puniſhment and Ʋengeance for ſinne were the proper and maine Cauſe thereof. Wherefore let vsus try your proofes for it, and then mine againſt it. But before we com to them, you muſt know that this your Reſolution, as you call it, is firſt moſt vaine, alſo directly contrary to your ſelfe, and then altogeather vntrue and preſumed by wide coniecture; as God willing preſently I ſhall ſhew. For the firſt; I hartily intreat the Chriſtian Reader to marke wel & to conſider, how your L. doth contrive 3. notable Equivocations in theſe few wordes, Christ ſuffered in his Soule the wrath of God: Notable S… phiſtrie.w^ch youeePa 243, 24… 245. 248. ſeeme to grant, but in truth you do not: and if we ad alſo the paines of Hell, then hee oppoſeth a fourth fallacie againſt vsus. And theſe 3. or 4. are the only Pillars of his Doctrine. For the 3. former, your firſt Equivocation is in this word Chriſt Suffered: p. 92and about it wee deale in this place now. The common and ordinary phraſe of men vnderſtandeth heerein, His feeling of paines inflicted on him by way of proper puniſhment and ſatisfaction for ſinne, …t Chriſtes …fering or …lion is pro…ly.which he vndertooke for vsus. Only this in the ordinarie and vſuall maner of ſpeach is ſignified by Chriſtes ſuffering or his Paſſion: and ſo doe we alwayes vnderſtand by it. But you cunninglie take another rare ſenſe of this word, as it ſignifieth the Affections of the Minde in Chriſt wholly bent to Holines, Righteouſnes, & Obedience of God, that ſo he might exactly & perfitly keep his iuſt Law. Which 2. partes of Chriſtes Mediation, are greatly differing,…e before pa. 18. 52. 64. and ought not both in trueth to be called His Paſſion or Satisfaction for ſinne. Therefore ſpeake plainly I beſeech you, and deceave vsus not? call not this His Soules ſuffering, but his Soules Holines & Righteouſnes. And ſeeing you meane, This was the proper & maine cauſe of Chriſts Paſſion & Suffering whē he wrought his ſatisfactiō for ſin now at the laſt end of his life chiefly, I ſimply denie it:… Treat. 1. pag. 68. 69. all Reaſon reclaimeth againſt it: and to that which " I alleaged for further reproofe thereof, you anſwere nothing. Your next Equivocation is in this,See before pag 52. Hee ſuffered ^† in Soule: your next in " Gods wrath. Both which I have plainly ſhewed before. As alſo your 4.Before pa. 49. 19. * Fallacy, which may be called Fallacia Accidentis. But Sit I hope you will not thinke to beare downe all afore you with nothing but with cunning,Before pag. 16. 53. yet vaine deceipt, countenanced out with cruell and hatefull wordes. Further, you are in this your Reſolution directly contrary to your owne ſelfe:Before pa. 36. 64. as " before I have briefly, yet ſufficiently ſhewed. Againe, where you cenſure your ſelfe very ſharply for your reſolutnes in this cauſe,Pag. 17. * It is curioſity to examine, preſumption to determine, impoſſibility to conclude certainly what was the true cauſe therof. Thirdly,““Pag. 290. where you make but 2. cauſes ſubmiſſion to God, Compaſſion to men: elſwhere but one**Pag. 23. Religious feare. But††Pa. 17. &c. before you very preciſely made 6. If you agree no better w^th your ſelf, I have ſmall hope that you will agree with vsus. Laſt of al, this your reſolution, making Chriſts Piety & Pity to be the only proper & maine Cauſe of all his wofull Paſſion, is vtterly falſe and vntrue, having no groūd but meere coniectures. But before I vn… my reaſons againſt your Aſſertion,Your. 6. Cauſes of Chr. Agonie vntrue. let vsus view all your particul… Cauſes, & ſee if any one of the can be good,††Pag. 18. Your 1. Cauſe is S… miſſion to the Maieſty of God ſitting in iudgemēt. Againſt whom … p. 93in what cauſe ſate he now in iudgment, when Chriſt was thus aſtoniſhed & Agonized therewith? Of neceſſity it muſt be one of theſe three wayes. 1. Gods Maieſty & great iuſtice now at this time might ſit in iudgement againſt vsus, & ſo conſequently yea chiefly againſt Chriſt him ſelfe as our Ranſom-payer and Surety in our ſteed. If you meane, that thus Chriſt with Submiſſiō beholding his Father in iudgement at this time was caſt into this Agonie, it is the verie trueth, and the ſame that we maintayne. For this denyeth not, but that he had real paines inflicted frō the Father as from a iuſt iudge againſt vsus in him, who were thus acquitted by him. And thus if Auſt. and othersaaPag. 3… ſentences be vnderſtood, that the Compaint on the Croſſe was not Chriſts in reſpect of him ſelfe but in reſpect of his Church for whom then & there he anſwered before God comming now to execute iudgement for their ſinne, ſo they are wel & rightly vnderſtood: otherwiſe there is no trueth in them, namely as you ſeeme to vſe them. Second: God might be conſidered now as iudging Satan the prince of this world, and overcomming him for vsus by the victorie of Chriſtes ſufferings which he was nowe about to vndergoe: that thus the Divell (asbbPag. you note out ofccAug. Auſtin) might be vanquiſhed in our Cauſe not by Gods abſolut and meere power, but alſo by doeing iustice, & ſo we deliuered. Thus whereddPag. you apply,eeIoh. 32. Now (even at hand) is the iudgement of this world: Now (evē ſhortly) ſhall the prince of this world be cast out. and I, if I were lift vp from the earth, will draw all men vntounto me. If you meane it in this ſenſe (as you ſeeme to doe) it ſerveth well. But that in this reſpect, as God proceeded againſt Satan, and for this cauſe Chriſt ſhould bee caſt into theſe dreadfull ſcates, ſorrowes, and bloudy Agonies, what man of iudgement would imagine? What colour of likelihood is there in it? Rather this were properly cauſe of great ioy and triumph indeed: as ſufficiently I have ſhewed in myffPh. 5. former treatiſe, wherevnto you anſwere not. Your teſtimonies touchingggIoel Heb. Pſal. men ſinfull, wherevnto may be adioynedhhLuc… an other of the like, ſomewhat opening thoſe places, make nothing to the purpoſe at al. For theſe could not by reaſon of their Sinnes induce the very preſence of Gods Maieſty, beeing in anie meaſure revealed vntounto them: but Chriſt in him ſelfe being free from all ſinne, could be in no ſuch caſe. No better alſo isiiIſa. … that of the Angells (meere Creatures) vayling their faces at the glorious p. 94preſence of God the Creatour of all: but Chriſt the Mediator was not a meere Creature, but alwayes perſonally vnited with a greater power then the Angells were, and alwayes ſuſtayned by it: vnles only in caſe of his Iudgement and Paſſion proceeding vponupon him from God, as is before noted, when purpoſely the Godhead hid him ſelfe as it were, and withdrew his wonted Comfort, that the manhood might be ſubiect …o full Puniſhment for vsus, as was appointed by God. Although even nowe alſo the Godhead did ſuſtaine his manhood thus being overloaden with paines: otherwiſe it could notaa…efore ….42. but have ben quite overwhelmed. Third: Gods Maieſtie and iuſtice may be conſidered ſitting in iudgement meerely againſt ſinfull men. If you meane heere againſt the ſinnes of the Elect, Chriſt knew the eternall and ſure decree of God which had turned the Cup of vengeance alreadie from them vponupon himſelfe, as being their Suretie: ſo that this commeth to our Aſſertion, as is aforeſaid. Or touching the Reprobates doe you think that Chriſt heere ſo vehemently wiſhed them better, whom he knew God hated: or that for pity of them he fell into this Agonie and ſorrowful prayers? Firſt Chriſt ſaith a littlebb… 17. …. before, He would not ſo much as pray for them. Yea it is certaine Chriſt rather would have greatly reioyced to ſee the due execution of Gods moſt holy and deſerved iuſtice, which is a ſpeciall part of his high glory. According to that which is written:cc… 58.10, The righteous ſhall reioyce when he ſeeth the vengeance, he ſhal waſh his feet in the bloud of the wicked: And men ſhall ſay, verily there is fruit for the righteous, doubtles there is a God that iudgeth the earth. Againe if Chriſtes mournfull prayers were to wiſh better to the Reprobat, how can that ſtand where he ſaith, Let this Cup paſſe from me: he ſhould have ſaide from them. Neither this alſo might he ſay, from them: as knowing perfectly his Fathers and his owne will directly to the contrary.

Your next ſuppoſed Cauſedd290. Compaſſion towards men cōtayneth 3. ſeverall cauſesee18.19 heere:

1. for the Reiection of the Iewes:

2. for the Disperſion of his Church:

3. His zealous griefe generally for the ſins of the world.

All theſe I grant were alwayes in Chriſt, and cauſed no doubt alwayes heavines in him: yet no more then a godly and heavenly minde could and would cheerefully digeſt and beare. Wherefore you ſtrangely deceave your ſelfe if you thinke that theſe, any, or all of them, did ſo far exceede in him as p. 95to procure his moſt dreadfull and bloudy Agonie. For the Reiection of the Iewes what reaſons bring you.aaLuke … Christ wept over their City: Ergo Now at his Paſsion he was driven into his dreadfull Agonie for this cauſe: and that rather now, then when hee ſo wept expreſly for them. I deny this argument: how will you doe to prove it? IbbTreat. … pa. 6.…7. have ſhewed from hence the contrary: wherevnto nothing is anſwered: that ſeeing when a little before hee throughly intended & expreſſed his affection about that matter, yet therby he fell into no ſuch Agonie, but only wept and mourned for them, therefore now in his Paſſion where he ſpeaketh not a worde of them, it is ſtrange to ſay, that his Pity of his Coūtry men the Iewes ſhould drive him to ſweat bloud, and thrice to pray with teares and ſtrong cryes, that this Cup of grief might paſſe from him, and thrice to yeeld him ſelfe againe to Gods will, ſaying: Not my will, but thy will be done. This verily cannot ſtand with any reaſon. Again, that his expreſſe Compaſſion towardes the Iewes a littleccLuk. 19. Mat. 24.Luke 19Matt 24 before he prepared him to his Paſſion, plainly ſheweth, that now in the Garden and ſo ſtill forward, he gave him ſelfe wholy to other thoughtes & matters, Namely ſuch as cōcerned his great work in hand: that is, to be are the Paines which now chiefly he was to ſuffer for mans redemption at Gods hands. Wherefore this work of Chriſt at this time performed and wrought by him,Note. is by a proper and peculiar Name iuſtly called his Paſſion, not not his Compaſſion. Againe you ſay, For their ſakes Moſes deſired to be wiped out of Gods booke, and Paul could have wiſhed him ſelfe to bee ſeparated from Christ for his brethren the Iſraelites. Ergo Chriſt at his Paſſion was caſt into that ſtrange Agonie for the griefe of their reiection. This alſo hath no ſhape of any reaſon in it. It proveth that Chriſt ſurely had very great pity and commiſeration of them, but nothing els in the worlde. Beſides Chriſt might have far greater pity of them, then Moſes or Paul had, and yet hee was able to cary his affection far more patiently and quietly then they were able: which would rather keepe him from ſuch an outwarde diſtemper as was even in them. Alſo Chriſt knew exactly Gods Counſell and purpoſe for their reiectiō, which thoſe holy men were not ſo particularly ſure of. Wherfore Chriſt might better ſtay the vehemency & breaking out of this affection, which in ſuch a caſe muſt needs tend againſt the knowen will of God. In thoſe holy men it might better break p. 96foorth very ſtrongly, as it did, ſeeing they knewe not particularly Gods decree heerein, ſo as Chriſt knew. Laſtly thoſe holy men (it ſeemeth) having their thoughtes wholly defixed on their vehement pity towardes the Iewes earneſtly and " conſtantly wiſhed, that the Cup of Gods eternall wrath might come vpō them ſelves that the Iewes who deſerved it,…pecially …ul; who …v…edly …proveth y^e …th. Rom. 1.Rom 1 might ſcape. But Chriſt in his Paſſion contrariwiſe deſired that the Cup which hee taſted to be too bitter and too violent for him, might paſſe away from him ſelfe. Thus here is no ſemblance of reaſon in this for your purpoſe. But againſt you heere are 4. worthie things to be noted. If we conſider this firſt, that theſe moſt ſervent deſires of theſe rare men, were holy and not ſinful. Becauſe their thoughts being wholly & altogeather for the time defixed on their love to their Brethren in the fleſh that they might be ſaved, and that Gods glory might be infinitly more ample, if he ſaved ſo many hundred thouſands (which now almoſt ſeemed to them as loſt) then it would be in their own particular ſalvation onelyonly: and thus for the tyme not thinking (it ſeemeth) vponupon their own immutable Election and Salvation not any thing els, ſaving only that they could deſire their brethrens ſalvation yea though it were with their owne damnation for their ſakes, if ſo it might ſtand with Gods will, which no doubt alwayes they implyed, though expreſſed nor: thus I take it plaine enough that theſe ſinned not in this their deſire, and I ſuppoſe you take it ſo too, in that you alleage them & ground your reaſon of Compariſon vponupon them. Nowe from hence I obſerve theſe 4. notable pointes.…e. 1. That, if God Omuipotent and only Soveraigne Lord will, he may inflict Damnation and the paines of Hel vponupon meere men, not for them ſelves but for others, not for their own ſins but for the imputed Sinnes of other men: much rather then may hee doe thus to Chriſt, whom God ſent indeed and ordayned for that purpoſe.…g. …76. Flatly contrary to " your Aſſertion. That which there you mention is the ordinary & common rule, The Soule that ſinneth it ſhall Dy. But in Chriſt this was eatraordinary and ſingular that The iust dyed for the vniust. 2. Wee ſee heere that there may be poſſibly a Death of the Soule, a Curſe and Separation frō God which is in it ſelfe neither Sinne, nor conioyned with ſinne neceſſarily: but meerely a Suffering of Puniſhment from God for the ſinnes of others imputed.… 73.310. Contrarie to you alſo: yea generally p. 97every where. Third: That extraordinarily there is greater love even 3among meere men, then only to dy bodily one for another, though vſually and ordinarily a greater can not be found among men: which is it, thataaIoh. 13.1…John 13:1 Chriſt meaneth. But how much more the may the love of Chriſt towards his Elect be farre greater. Contrary tobbPa. 107.1… your aſſertion. Fourth: Wee ſee here that theſe holy men without feeling any paines inflicted by Gods wrath, but onelyonly 4through an earneſt and mighty Compaſſion of loveccPag. 293. have their mindes drawen ſo wholly to thinke on this ſpeciall thing above their reach, that during the time they turne not themſelves to any other cogitation. Even as the eye, being bent intētively to behold any thing, for that preſent diſcerneth nothing els. Whereby it cōmeth to paſſe that theſe wiſhes of theſe holy men raviſhed with Pity and Zeale, are not reckoned ſinfull in thē, though they were directly againſt their owne Salvatiō, which otherwiſe they knew was immutable with God and certainly reſerved for them in Heaven. This youddPag. 293. acknowledge may be in men, & yet you will not skoffe at them aseePag. 144. cast into a traunce by it, nor reproch them withffPag. 299. infernall confuſion. How much leſſe ought you ſo to deale with Chriſt: but ſpecially to acknowledge that his marveylous perplexity may well be a meanes that his ſuddainwiſhes againſt his own conſtant purpoſe & Gods will, were yet no ſinnes. And that much rather even for this, becauſe Chriſt had infinitly more cauſe by his Paines (thē felt and feared to be in his minde both more amuzed and alſo amazed, then thoſe men had by their affections. Thus far of this. As for theggAmbro… le…om A… & B…de. Fathers whichhhPag. 19. you cite, if they meane as they ſeeme to do that now at his Paſſion among other cauſes of ſorrow there wāted not this, even his great Pity towards his forlorn Coūtrymē, thē we ioyne with them. If they meane (as you would have them) that this was the maine and chiefe cauſe of his extreame ſorrows and amazednes, therein I vtterly leave them. Howbeit this heere note in them, that theſe Fathers avouch Christ feared not his (bodily) Death and Paſſion: for thereof only they ſpeake heere queſtionles. You contrariwiſe ſay that Christ feared (bodily) death, for thereof alſoiiPag. 26, … you diſcourſe, and had more cauſe (as you thinke) ſo to do, then any of his members hauehave.

Third: touchingkkPag. 19, … his regard of his Church, generally the ſame anſwer ſerveth, as is given to the laſt point before. If you vrge that p. 98theſe Fathers are ſo reſolute for theſe Cauſes as their wordes heere pretend, then your ſelf abuſeth them more thē ever I did or meane to do,…ag. 17. where you ſay, a it is curioſity to examine, preſumption to determine, impoſſibility to conclude (as theſe doe) what was the true cauſe of Chriſts Agonie.

Fourth:Pag. 20. b you alleage his inward ſorrow and zealous grief for the ſinnes of the world, to be the maine and chiefe cauſe of his Agonie. Surely even to rehearſe theſe your argumēts is refutation of them enough. All theſe are proper parts of his Holines & Righteouſnes, as I have ſaid, but no proper partes or cauſes of his bloudy & moſt dreadfull Agonie, that is of his Sacrifice ſatisfying for ſinne. Only his**Heb. 2.10.Heb 2:10 Paines were, which then he felt and feared. Neither in reſpect of theſe your ſuppoſed cauſes could he ſay, Save me frō this hower, nor Let this Cup paſſe from me: as in reſpect of his infinit paines he might.Mar. 14.35.Mark 14:35 c This hower can not be referred to his Holy and Righteous affections, which were at all howers and ſeaſons in him without meaſure Holy, yet now at his death did not ſo expreſly break out & ſhew thēſelves,Nor as his …aines did …peare. "as they did at divers times before. Therefore this Hower can not be theſe his Holy affections: his Paines & afflictions they d may be and muſt bee.…oh. 12.27. …mpar. with … 33. Neither thus ſtandeth it with his piety to wiſh that his ſtrong and vehement affections of Holynes ſhould paſſe from him, or bee weakened in him. For my part I can ſee no ſenſe nor ſap in theſe aſſertions. Even ſo likewiſe in that,…ag. 21. where you aſcribe to this his c deepe ſorrow of zeale for mens ſinnes his ſweating bloud in his agonie aboue nature after a ſtrange and marvelous maner. I dare ſay, you deliver ſtrange mervayles in Divinity.

The Fift Cauſe f you ſay,…ag. 21. might be the Cup of Gods wrath tempered & made ready for the ſinnes of men: which you interpret to be g Eternall Malediction. Pag. 22.Touching which you ſay, Christ knowing what our ſinnes deſerved might intentively pray to have that Cup paſſe frō him, which was prepared for vsus. For vsus, whom meane you? The Elect, or the Reprobat? What malediction? The whole & abſolut Paines thereof only, or the Eternity of the continuance thereof alſo? For ſo the Reprobats do ſuffer it. If you meane the Elect,As you af…me moſt …angely, pa. …2. 133. 144 …93. 294. Chriſt knew, that he muſt not only h ſee & contemplat, but feele & ſuffer all the whole Paines of that Puniſhment which our ſinnes deſerved: and this was prepared for himſelfe our Ranſom-payer p. 99and not for vsus. Wherefore the truth is he could not by any meanes pray againſt that nor decline that, onelyonly vnles he were for the time in ſome astoniſhment & perturbation of his ſenſes, which by the infinitnes of that Paine he might well bee in, yea he could not but be (in his Humane weake nature) and yet ſtill remayning vtterly ſinleſſe, as is afore ſhewed to have happened in Moſes and Paul in a far leſſe perturbation then this was in Chriſt. Now this is the very point of our Defenſe: affirme this, and you affirme with vsus all that we hold & profeſſe. Otherwiſe if you meane that Chriſt prayed intentively to have the whole and intire Cup of eternall Malediction and death paſſe from him, which both the Elect deſerve, and the Reprobats ſuſtaine, that, as it is paſſing ſtrange doctrine, ſo it is alſo ſimply impoſſible. For he could not intentively pray againſt that, not feare that, which hee moſt perfitly knew concerned him not at all, and by no meanes could ever poſſibly come neere him. But indeed all this is nothing els in effect then your 1 Cauſe, His ſubmiſſion to Gods maiesty ſitting in iudgment. Wherefore you might have leſſened your number, and ſo your anſwer to this might have ben theſame which is made to your formoſt. But heere furthermore you knit in with thisaaAs you… kon the… geathe… 27. 4 other ſeverall cauſes of Chriſts Agony.

1. His taking of our infirmities in his fleſh to cure them:

2. His breaking the knot betwixt (bodily) death and Hell, which none but hee was able to do:

3. Gods anger which might be executed on his body, but was mitigated by him:

4. The deſire he had to continue the ſeeling & inioying of Gods preſenſe with his body.

The of theſe maketh in my minde much 1for vsus. For vnderſtanding that Chriſt tooke all the infirmities and paſſions wherevnto mens nature is ſubiect to the ende that hee might cure all and every kinde of them in vsus; then it followeth that he wanted not the proper & immediat ſufferings of paines inflicted by Gods own hād in his Soule. For theſe are our Soules ſubiect vntounto and capeable of, yea and tormēted with, & finally we are by this apt and proportionable medicine of Chriſt throughly cured of thē. And this is the very ſame matter w^ch our 4 Argument**Pag 8… 87. before concluded: that Chriſte had experince of theſame infirmities & paſſions generally whatſoever, wherof he hath cured vsus. And this your owne Authours here doe fully affirme, Cyrill Ambroſe, and others, asaaPag. 88 before we have obſerved. It is then moſt vnreaſonable p. 100which heere c you doe (if you doe as you ſeeme) to vnderſtand them of meere Bodily death,…a. 25, 26, 27 & of the infirmities meerly of his Fleſh.Before pag …1. Wherein then you deny our d Aſſumption alſo, & are againe Contrarie to your ſelfe and to f your owne Authours. Cyrill nameth fleſh heere,Pag. 10. … Ie…om. Pde. meaning not Chriſtes Deitie, but his whole Humane nature, as the Scripture doeth in a multitude of places: and ſo not his Body onelyonly. Thus then it is that he ſaith, as you obſerue,Pag. 25. that g Christ as a man abhorred and feared death: not the bodily death only, but as it was conioyned with the ſorrowes of the 2. death. He would not, he could not ſo feare and be afrighted, yea and pitiouſly aſtoniſhed with ſuch ſorrowe oppreſſing him, as to ſweat droppes of bloud only for feare of his bodily death: neyther would he pray at all, much leſſe ſo vehemently and ſo oftenty mes as he did againſt that which he perfectly knew was Gods will and his own moſt willing purpoſe to vndergoe. Or els Cyrill meaneth no more but that he naturally miſliked & ſhunned (evē as all fleſh doth) all bodily paine & death. This we alwayes yeeld, and it maketh nothing againſt vsus. For nevertheles he cōſtantly imbraced & ſuffered with ioy whatſoever bodily grief he knew did come vntounto him by his owne moſt free wil, and by the holy ordinance of God: yea he could & would beare it with ioy far beyond all the ioy and conſtancie of h men in their ſufferings.Who yet …rink not at … neither for …dily paines …r for Reli…ous fear of …ll. Only he might faile of the outward appearance and vſe of this cōſtancie and ioyfull patience (as now he did) without taint of ſinne, if his Humane nature were overwhelmed with other infinit paynes, and his minde and ſenſes diſturbed with more horrour then naturally it could beare. Therfore I conclude he thus feared not his meere bodily death, but it was the Paines of the 2. death which he felt and ſo feared. But you ſay i The ſorrow and feare of death which it pleaſed our Saviour to feele in our nature, …ag. 26.came not for want of ſtrength, but of purpoſe to quench and aboliſh thoſe affections in vsus. I ſay it came from both: as your ſelfe alſo doe avouch cleane contrarily in an other place: k To dy even in Christ was infirmitie, …ag. 161.though voluntary. And generally in another place;…ag. 289. l Naturall infirmitie was cōmon to Christ with all the godly in like caſes. Wherfore Auſtins ſentence will not helpe you heere,Pag. 25. m that Christ was troubled not by infirmitie, but by (his owne) power. For he meaneth, not only by infirmitie, but alſo by his owne will and power: or els you cōfute him yourſelfe. Neither p. 101ther is this any reproch to Chriſt, asnnPag. … you moſt iniuſtly inſinuat. But as it was glorious to him ſo to debaſe his Maieſtie for our ſakes to take our true and perfit Nature, yea to bee humbled therein to the moſt ſhamefull death of the Croſſe, ſo was it alſo glorious to him to take all the true weakneſſes of our nature togeather: and ſo it was his ſingular good-will towards vsus to become throughly like vsus, and feelingly ſubiect to all our Calamities, paines and miſeries, to heale vsus of them. Only in him the guilt and corruption of ſinne it ſelfe was excepted. Faine you wouldooPag. 2… wipe away that Argumēt of ours which ſticketh neerer to you the you will ſeeme. In Malefactors there is a quiet and contented ſuffering of moſt exquiſit and extraordinary torments oftentimes,The cou… and ſt… of Ma… ctours …ments. which they indure only by a naturall ſtrength and courage of minde. Howe much more likely is it then that Chriſt the very rock of all ſtrength and fountaine of patience, would not thus ſeeme affrighted and aſtoniſhed and ſo wofully behaving him ſelfe for his meere bodily death, and that before it came vntounto him. All your anſwer is, that this is no fit compariſon for the Sonne of God: for they are deſperate, not having any feare or care of God till they feele the force of his wrath in Hell fyre. What an anſwer is this? They have no feare nor care of God. What then? Yet naturally they have feare and care of moſt bitter paines, and namely then when they feele them. If you ſay, before they feele them they are ſo deſperate and ſo hardened by Satan, that they care not for any tormentes: that in deed is commonly true. But what will you or can you alleage to hinder their full and moſt dreadfull ſenſe of them, when they are in them? Satan wiſheth them not ſo much good as to benumme them now in their ſenſes, ſo that the cruell paines of death ſhould not trouble them in the time of their death, which hee would rather make more fearfull and intollerable vntounto them. Let them be then in their life time as desperat as they will, yet in death and in the middeſt of moſt horrible tortures which oftentimes very quietly they indure, ſurely they cannot chooſe but feele as liuely and as perfitely as other men doe. Only it is a naturall boldnes and ſtrength of minde (in it ſelfe no diſcommendable propertie) that ſuſtayneth them in ſuch extreme paines: One inſtance for all may ſerve in this kinde, even that wretched Murderer of the Prince of Orange in Netherland. What ſtrange quietnes did he ſhew in ſuffering p. 102moſt wonderfull and rare tormentes vntill death. Nowe to make our Saviour Chriſt leſſe able or willing to ſuffer quietly outward tormentes no greater then that wretch and many other ſuch have ſuffered, I ſuppoſe is a bad indeavour. And it is no vnfit matter for you to thinke more vponupon, before you skip it over with ſilence. We compare not the Sonne of God with them, but are ſure that his Humane nature had beyond all compariſon more commendable courage, boldnes, ſtrength of minde, patience, and contentment even in the middeſt of his extreameſt paines (were they but meere bodily) then ſuch caytifs had, or poſſibly could ſeeme to have. This that I ſay, pertaineth alike to the Theeves that were Crucified with Chriſt. Of whom the H. Ghoſt ſaith, a They were togeather in one and the ſame Condemnation with Chriſt.…. 23.40. That is they ſuffered from men all one and the like tormentes of death adiudged them by the Magiſtrate: except happily Chriſt ſuffered leſſe then they, becauſe they indured them longer then hee did. Yet we finde in none of them any ſuch piteous and ſtrange Complaintes and Cryes and Teares, as we finde in Chriſt. But to leave theſe, and to come to the patience of Martyrs in their ſufferings. That alſo is admirable, what ioy, what peace, what triumph they ſhew, yea how they ſing in the middeſt of frying flames, in their roſting on gridirons, in their fleaing off their ſkinnes, and tearing of their fleſhe by piece-meales, with a thouſande other of moſt ſtrange and butcherly torments, no leſſe, if no greater in outward ſhewe, then the ſufferings of our Saviour Chriſt. To this you anſwer: 2If death be not fearfull to the Servants of Christ, they are the more bound to their Lord and Maister. Who knoweth not that? But what anſwer is this to our argument? And you will alſo give a reaſon of your ſaying: Becauſe he was the first that by death diſarmed death, and ſevered Death and Hell. He was ſurely both the firſt and the laſt: both α and ω. For he …ly, and none with him, nor before nor ſince him conquered Death and Hell. Yet what is this to our Reaſon? The effect that Chriſt wrought is not our quaeſtion,…he matter … or Ob…, and the …iect of his …ffering are … queſtion. but " the maner and kinde of ſuffering whereby hee wrought it. You tell vsus of the effect which he perfourmed which we gladly acknowledge: viz. that Chriſt did this in deed by his death, he made our death ſince to be no Curſed death, but a bleſſed death. But how did he this, by ſuffering nothing but his meere p. 103bodily death only, or alſo a Religious feare of Hell? All which other godly men doe alſo ſuffer and feele, which they take paſſing ioyfully and quietly. But thus Chriſt did not ſeeme to doe, neyther indeed did he in his Agonie. Or did Chriſt ſuffer ſome greater ſorrow? You ſay, The death which Christ ſuffered when it approched came fast clasped with Hell. What meane you by that? meane you, that Death and Hell both alike came iointly vponupon Chriſt, and that both iointly were ordayned of God to ſeaze vponupon him? Then it is theſame that wee affirme. Otherwiſe how came they clasped togeather againſt him? By breaking the knot betwixt Death and Hell, he could not be ſo wofully affected and afflicted above meaſure as he was, if he did not ſuffer by them ſomewhat extraordinarily. VntoUnto this you have nothing to anſwer. Only you ſay, he ſevered them, and none ells but only the Sonne of God could diſſolve them. Which we deny not. Neither can we ſee how Death by Gods ordinance might ſeaze vponupon Chriſt, and not the paines of Hel: ſeeing neither of them is in themſelves ſin, but both alike are the due vengeance of ſinne which he was ordayned to ſuffer ſo far as was poſſible. Why then did he ſuffer the one, and not touch the other. Neither yet do you ſhew that w^ch you take in hand heere, how bodily death is contemptible to the Godly which was not contemptible to God himſelfe by your aſſertiō. It was not therefore that onelyonly, but ſome other death farre more dreadful and intollerable, which made Chriſt man (being alſo God) in ſuch wiſe to tremble and quake. In deed Christ had farre greater cauſe (as you ſay) to feare even his bodily death, then any of his Members have. For it was therefore becauſe death approched vntounto him clasped fast with Hell, ſo that he could not by the ordinance of God meddle with one but he muſt feele the other. And thus he did not contemplate and looke on them a farre of, nor had to doe with one more then the other, but by ſuffering one, he felt both: and by induring one, he indured both. And thus in deed Chriſt was left by God to the full naturall ſenſe of his bodily torments. But the Godly and the Martyrs deale only with bodily Death; the paines of Hell, or of Gods wrath they feare not, becauſe they know by Chriſtes ſuffering the ſame they are aboliſhed, & removed farre from them. Sin ſtādeth not threatning thē in the prefence of God, as it ſtood now at this time againſt Chriſt our Suertie and Ranſom-payer. Nay, p. 104they deale not with Bodily death wholely and naturally: for they have Gods comfort with them to mitigate it, which Chriſt nowe felt not. Yea they mind not their paines very much for their great hope and ioy preſenly following: but this was all overclowded in Chriſt at this inſtant. Therefore he had exceeding great cauſe to be affrighted and terrifyed & to cry out with bitter teares, though the godly have cauſe to triumph & ſing in Death. Thus alſo you forget * my argumēt:…. 1.51. that Chriſt alwayes charged his Diſciples not to take their bodily Death heavily for righteouſnes ſake: Ergo, He him ſelfe would never be ſo diſmayed with the feare of it. Heere you have a notable ſayinge in the margen, whiche muſt not be forgotten: we muſt preferre Chriſtes ſuffering before all Martyrs * not for his paines, …. 26.but for his patience. Not for his paines, but for his patience? A rare diſtinction: If you could make vsus believe that the greateſt patience is tryed and diſcerned where the ſmalleſt paines are, then you ſaid ſomewhat. I know Chriſtes patience was perfit in all his paines both ſmall & great: and ſo is not the patience of his ſervants in their paines neither ſmall nor great. But what is this to our purpoſe? We ſpeake not of his inward habit of patience which our faith beleeveth to be in him: but of the outward triall and diſcerning thereof by naturall meanes & ſignes wherevnto it pleaſed him now to ſubmit his patience after the verie courſe and operation of Nature. Wherefore as Chriſt had in him indeed farre more patience then we have, ſo it is out of doubt when he came to the chiefeſt trial thereof in his Paſſion he would not in any wiſe (as he did) ſhewe leſſe in vſe then many men doe, vnles the trial & encoūtring thereof in him were infinitly greater.

3By this alſo we may ſee how vaine your next coniecture is, that he feared in his Agonie " Corporall castigation above his ſtrength. …. 22.24.For why may not Martyrs and others feare as much cruelty & extraordinarie torments at the handes of men, as Chriſt had cauſe to doe? Againe, why ſhould the feare of any whatſoever meere bodily paines ſo overcome his patience, as outwardly it ſeemed at this time? Why ſhould he not be able to beare it quietly? And principally ſeeing he knew well enough before what his death ſhould be, and that God had vnchangeably appointed it for him. Wherefore in no wiſe ought he ſo to ſhunne and ſhrinke from his meere bodily paines, if they were no greater, which hee ſuffered. p. 105IfaaPag. 2 you meane that he felt greater concurring in and with his bodily puniſhment inflicted by the wrathfull hand of God,bbPag. 2 armed with infinit vengeance, then you ſay well, and we acknowledge it.

Your otherccPag. 2. 27. Cauſe is, for that by death his body ſhould want a 4while the feeling of Gods preſence. But did not Chriſt perfitly know that this was Gods decree and certaine appointment; yea his owne moſt free will & purpoſe? And ſhall we imagine that Chriſt would expreſlie pray againſt that knowen will of his Father, yea againſt his owne? Call you thisddPag. 2… greater perfection in him then was in other men? Againe, could this thing in any reaſon be ſuch a horrible griefe vntounto him, to have his fleſh ly dead without paine for a day and a few howers, yet his Soule cōtinually living and inioying the cōfort of God: and that for ſuch an occaſion as to procure thereby the Salvation of mankinde, would the thought of this make him ſweat bloud for grief, and to need an Angell from, heaven to comfort him, and to pray 3. times vehemently that this Cup might paſſe from him? verily it is vnreaſonable to thinke ſo. Which Cauſe alſo, if it were true, is flatly contrary to youreePag. 29… owne reſolution. But of all theſe I wonder where you have found anie inkling, that any of theſe may be beleeved to bee the true and effectuall cauſe of Chriſtes moſt dreadfull Agonie. You ſay excellentffAs be … have n… pag. 28. well, but by your practiſe in all matters ſo farre as I ſee, you never meane to obſerve it:ggEpiſt pa… in Gods cauſe let Gods booke teach vsus what to beleeve and what to profeſse: hhPag. 91I love to followe and not to lead the holy Ghost. In matters of ſo great depth I dare not wade without or before my guide. AgaineiiPag. 41. what I reade in Gods worde, that I beleeve: what J read not, that I doe not beleeve. Shewe mee then where you read in Gods word any or all theſe to be effectuall Cauſes of this ſtrange Agonie, or ſome ſure grounde whence evidently we may gather ſo much: or els for my part I ſhall never bever beleeve you.

Your Sixt andkkPag. 27. &c. laſt maine Cauſe is, that Chriſt by this his bloudy ſweat and vehement prayers did nothing but voluntarily performe that true bloudy Offering and Prieſthood prefigured in the Law. This we ſimply grant: it hindreth not our Aſſertion. Except you meane voluntarily in ſuch ſenſe that hee was not alſo vrged therevnto by any violence of paines or feare procuring it in him naturally. Wherein you ſeeme to labour by bringing ſome Fathers, p. 106and miſapplying ſome Scriptures,…ag 29. and doe ſay that a you are content to admit alſo (this) expoſition, and of this, with all the reſt you pronoūce that b they are ſound and well agreeing with Chriſtian pietie. …ag 37.Yet is it contrary to c your reſolution alſo: yea it is contrary to the Scripture,…ag 290. expreſſing his d feare and vehement ſorrowes and e diſcomfort to have cauſed his Agonie.…h 14. …. …4. …b… 5.7. Againe if you meane that all this was voluntary in him and not felt indeede according to the outwarde ſemblance and as men beholding him would iudg…,Luc. 22.43Luke 22:43 then belike you make him to have counterfayted. Which thought God for bid ſhould ever come into any Chriſtians heart. For no cauſe you ſay f I iest and iybe with the Apostles wordes: Pag. 302.but I feare this is to ieſt and iybe in deed with the moſt dreadfull and bitter ſorrowes of our Saviour in working for vsus our Salvation. And heere why ſay you not aſwell that his Death and bloudſhed on the Croſſe ſhewed in him no paines nor infirmitie, but only that voluntarily he made him ſelfe there the true Prieſt, and pe formed the prefigured bloudy and deadly Sacrifice for the ſins of the world. As good reaſon altogeather you have to ſay ſo, as to affirme it of his Agonie.…ag. 29. As for the Scriptures which g you cite, they prove in deed that Chriſt nowe executed his office of Priesthoode: but will you "divide & exempt his Death on the Croſſe frō his Prieſthood?Or his …ines and fit mity frō ther? The ſanctifying of him ſelf doeth it not as well intend and comprehende that Sacrifice on the Croſſe, as that of his Prayers in the Garden? To thinke otherwife is without all ſhewe of trueth or reaſon, yet I ſee not why you ſhould cite theſe textes, vnles you meant ſo: neither can I ſee what els you meane, where you conclude, ſaying, Christs Agonie being alleaged by the Apoſtle to demonſtrat Christs Priesthood, must not riſe frō the terror of his own death. …ag. 27.And yet h a little before you openly doe confeſſe and grant, that his Agonie did riſe from the feare of his death, and that Christ had farre greater cauſe then any of his members to feare it. Alſo it is contrary to your citing of Cyrill pag. 25. And heere why ſhould i Hilary deny that Chriſtes bloudy ſweat came of infirmitie? …ag. 28.Or k Austin, that his feare and perturbatiō was of infirmitie? …ag. 25.Surely there is no cauſe. For though it be againſt the cō mon courſe of our Nature, for any paines or feare to ſweat bloud: yet the Divine power with and through paines and feares might wring out of his body that trickling bloudy ſweat. As it is plaine p. 107that it did by the wordes next before in the text,aaLuk. 2 44.Luke 2:44 An Angell came to give him ſome comfort, that is, leaſt hee ſhould have bene overwhelmed quite in his ſorrow and diſcomfort: but ſtill he was in his Agonie, and ſwet like droppes of bloud trickling to the ground: and preſently ſaieth, My Soule is full of ſorrowes even to death, and thrice he prayed that this Cup, and this Hower might paſſe from him. It cannot be therefore but that by Sorrowes and Paines this ſweat came: though alſo Gods power cauſed it by laying vponupon his Soule and body inviſible, ſupernaturall, & vnſpeakeable ſorrowes and horrors, and by making his fleſhe viſibly to expreſſe in ſome ſort this ſpirituall and extraordinary torment of paine and feare which he ſuffered. And in deed where they ſay,11Not Infir… ty but Po… did this. Nec infirmitas, quod poteſtas geſſit, that proveth the cleane cōtrary: For Jdeo & infirmitas, quia potestas geſſit. 2 Therfor… there wa… firmity, … cauſe th… was Pow…For the working of his Power in him argueth the ſuffering of his Infirmitie: The power of God is pe…fited in infirmítie. And becauſe it was aboue the courſe of nature, therefore nature was herein oppreſſed, not exempted from paines. Thus theſe ſpeak fully for vsus and againſt you, that heere appeared, not Christes infirmity only in ſuffering, but his Divine power alſo in puniſhing. And this I iudge in deed to bee their very meaning. But thoſe other myſticall and figuratiue ſayings of Austin, Pag 28.…Bede, & Bernard, howe ſhall we admit them without better warrant? That Chriſtes bloudſhead was to ſignifie that Martyrs ſhould ſhead their bloud, what reaſon have we ſo to thinke? Or that his bloud head ſhould ſignifie the purging of his Diſciples hearts frō ſinne, yea or of all his Church in the whole world? It did not ſignifie this, but it did it in deed. Laſtly, if it had th…ſe ſignifications in it, yet withall his Agonie might riſe from his very Paines & Feare comming from the preſent ſenſe of Gods iuſtice and wrath nowe reveal…d and working vponupon him.

Hitherto we have made it manifeſt that in trueth you have nothing in all theſe wordes againſt our doctrine, that Paines and ſorrowes were the true and proper cauſe of Chriſtes dreadfull Agonie: nor to prove that his meere bodily paines or death was the whole Cauſe. Now we are to ſhew the like in his moſt we full Complaint on the Croſſe: where he ſaith My God, my God, Math 27.Matt 27why hast thou forſaken me? You will aſke me heere, what kinde of Forſaking may this be? I ſhewed you plainly**Treat 1.… 6…, 65, 6… before, if you had regard…d it. p. 108Namely, that Chriſt being alſo now (yea ſpecially) in the feeling of infinit Paines inflicted on him ſundry wayes,…w Chriſt on … Croſſe was …ſaken of …d. See alſo …g. 112.113 and that directly frō Gods proper Wrath for our ſinnes, he felt his whole Humane nature for the time left all comfortles and alone without any ioyous aſſiſtance of his Deitie. I ſay not, that he wanted now all aſſiſtanc of his Deitie: for it ſurely would then have quite overwhelmed him with this intollerable burdē. But his Godhead, as it were withdrawing and hiding it ſelfe from him for that ſeaſon of his Paſſion, gave him no ſenſe nor feeling of eaſe, comfort, or ioy, but all the ſenſe of ſorrowes and paines as well in ſpirit, as in ſoule and body, that might bee: all the ſenſe of his ioy and comfort for the while being cleane gone and wholy ſwallowed vp in that huge & bottomles gulfe of ſorrowes and paynes iſſuing vponupon him out from the fierce Wrath of God. Howbeit yet even nowe he wanted not ſufficient aſſiſtance of the Deitie to ſuſtayne him in life heerein, as I ſaid.Phil. 2.7. Rom. 8.32. …eut. 10 17. …c. 16.17.Phil 2:7Rom 8:32 This was that extreeme humiliation and " exinanition of nature, wherein † God ſpared not his Sonne, and wherein alſo Chriſt ſpared not him ſelfe. For hee vndertooke all this moſt willingly: and yet being in it naturally grieved and ſorrowed for it, & at ſome moments being aſtoniſhed with it, ſuddenly and naturally deſired eaſe and releaſe from it. This forſaking or dereliction beſeemeth the time, place, perſon, and caſe of Chriſt our Ranſompayer, and Purchaſer of ſalvation with the price of his owne moſt direfull paines.Pag. 24. &c …r 6. Expo…ions of …hriſtes Cō …aint, are all …iſſe. Not any other farre fet, or hardly applyed, or ſtrangely deviſed by the braynes of men. As in trueth all thoſe other ſenſes heereof are, which " you rather imbrace. They are 6. 1in number. The 1. is, that when Chriſt on the Croſſe cryed out, My God, my God, why hast thou forſaken me, by this word me, he ſhould meane His Church. For the which you have no reaſon in the world, but the bare names of Auſtin, Leo, Athanaſius. Shew me their reaſons,See before …ag. 28.29. preſſe not their authorities. Which " your ſelfe alſo reiecteth, when you liſt: though when you liſt againe they muſt be your beſt, yea your only reaſon. But even theſe Fathers if they be vnderſtood,Pag 79. as * before I have ſhewed Cyprians meaning to be: that Chriſt ſpake theſe wordes, as doing now the part of the Suretie of his Church, and as ſtanding in the caſe of his Children whom now by his ſuffering paines he ſaved: then they agree iuſt with our minde herein. For then doubtles it was for the infinite p. 109paines which now he felt in our ſteed, that he ſo cryed out, My God, my God, why hast thou forſaken me? Otherwiſe if you thinke they meant that Chriſt ſpake this by ſome ſtrange Metonimy, naming him ſelfe but meaning his Church: that can have no good ſenſe. For how can it be that we were forſaken of God when Chriſt was on the Croſſe. Nay, even there and then were we ““Act. 20Acts 20purchaſed vntounto God, not forſaken by God. Againe your owne rule is, which I like well, that no Figure is to bee admitted in Scripture where there is no ill nor hurtfull ſenſe following literally. But I have ſhewed a little before a plaine, eaſie, and Chriſtian ſenſe heereof, taking it literally: that me ſignifieth Chriſtes owne perſon namely his Manhood bearing nowe, as our Suretie, intollerable paines inflicted by Gods wrath vponupon him: and ſo he may mourne & ſorrowe that he was forſaken, that is left in vnmeaſurable paines with out feeling of any comfort or ſuccour for the tyme. Wherefore neither you nor any of the Fathers ought to conceave that me heere ſhould ſignifie not Chriſt properly, but the Church Figurativelie. What other conſtruction you can make heereof, I can not diſcerne. Finally, this 1. ſenſe is contrary to your 2. and 3. following: alſo to your 5. and 6. ſenſes. If eyther of theſe be taken as the true meaning of this place, it cannot poſſibly ſtande with the reſt: although you allow them all, as by and by we ſhall manifeſtly ſee. Now then your ſenſe, what is it? Even this, that Chriſts humane 2nature was left helples to the rage of the Iewes; which is a kinde of forſaking. This ſeemeth to come neereſt indeed to your liking, by that which I obſerve inaaPag. 13 you. But as I ſaid, this is directly contrary to your 1. ſenſe, & to the reſt following. AlſobbHeere 11.50. before we ſaw how greatly Chriſtes ſufferinges ſpecially on the Croſſe differed from ſuch, as the godly doe alſo ſuffer. Yea there is ſurely no reaſon nor ſhew of reaſon, that Chriſt heere ſhould ſo mournfully and ſo vncomfortably complaine that God had forſaken him, if it were only but for ſuch diſtreſſes as the godly alſo doe equally ſuffer at the hands of evill men. Seeing moſt of thē at the hower of their martyrdoms doe never vtter any ſuch ſhew (as Chriſt heere did) of a minde vncomforted. Where alſo note this well, that no godly man not Martyr did ever aſcribe this forſaking of themſelves to God in the time of their martyrdomes. For though then they are oppreſſed with greater violence of bodily enemies, yet they are aſſiſted p. 110with far greater abundance of heavenly comfort, even in the middeſt of the paines of death. So that they never mourne nor complaine at ſuch extreme dealing, as Chriſt now did, when hee ſaid my God, my God, why hast thou forſaken me. Wherefore it is a great ſhame to imagine that Chriſt was leſſe able to indure ſuch a dereliction, or that he would thus complaine and mourne for it only.Pag. 35. The bare names againe of c Austin, Ambroſe, Hierom doe heere likewiſe no good. This is but a weake kind of reaſoning for ſo learned a Divine as you are. Although alſo theſe very ſentences of the Fathers I can eaſily admit, if they import no more then they ſeeme: namely that theſe outward afflictions on the Croſſe were ſome cauſe (and that not ſmall) of his complaint, alwayes remembring that ſome greater cauſe alſo did concurre & was conioyned 3with them. Your 3. ſenſe if I conceave it a right is, that his being l…ft to bodily death cauſed him thus to mourne which is but as the laſt before. And yet you ſeeme to meane not onelyonly that, but alſo becauſe his d fleſh now ſhould want all feeling of his heavenly comfort for that while,…n that you …, His God…ad depar… nowe frō … body, &c. that it ſhould remaine dead. A marvelous exquiſit & far fet cauſe. Yet me thinks, as this croſſeth your other expoſitions heere, ſo it is flat contrary to the Scripture alſo: which giveth after a ſort to Chriſts dead Fleſh this lively affection,…. 2.26.27 e my fleſh ſhall reſt in hope, becauſe thou wilt not leave my ſoule to remaine as all other fleſh dying doth, in the vnſeene worlde of the dead, neither wilt ſuffer thy holy one to ſee corruptiō. Is it likely is it poſſible that he ſhould ſo dolefully mourne that either he ſhould bodily dy, or that his body ſhould want the ſenſe of his divine preſence ſo little a while, when as in his mind hee ſpeaketh ſo triumphantly of his conſtant and continuall ioy in God: yea not excluding even his body though dead from participating in ſome ſort therein: as we read in the former place at large. I beheld the Lord always before me, for he is at my right hand that I ſhould not be ſhaken. Therefore did my heart reioyce & my toung was glad, & moreover my Fleſh ſhallrest in hope, &c. Now can a man in this exceeding generall and conſtant ioy ſo vncomfortably mourne, in that ſenſe as you vrge, My God my God, why forſakest thou my fleſh? It cannot be. Many thinges more may be ſtrongly alleaged againſt this opiniō. As firſt: ſeeing he perfitly knew thath as his fleſh now ſhould quietly reſt, and have a preſent ende of all his moſt bitter p. 111ſorrowes, ſo even all that while & continually after, his ſoul (which was his beſt part) ſhould inioy perfit glory and comfort more then before it did: Alſo ſeeing this ſenſeles reſt of his fleſh was to be but for a very little while, & then preſently to receave a moſt glorious and eternall felicity iointly with his Soul and with his Deity, who can imagine that Chriſt would (now ready to dy) ſo extreamely mourne and complaine only for this cauſe, as your fancy importeth? Further he knew perfitly that this was the very appointment of God, and for the fulfilling of Propheſies, for the obtayning of his moſt deſired purchaſe of our health, for the more advancing of Gods glory, yea and for the more advancing of his very manhood alſo after ſo low humiliation. Finally it was his own moſt free and fore determined will. Would hee then ſo mournfully grieve and complaine thereat? It hath no reaſon, nor likelyhood in it.Iohn 1…John 1 Lazarus when he was returned from the ioyes of heaven to take againe his rotten carcaſe ofter it ſtanke having lyen 4. dayes dead in the grave, yet he grieved not at it, neither ought he ſo to have don. Much leſſe ought Chriſt ſo to grieve and mourne, for a leſſer want and for a ſhorter ſeaſon (as we may thinke) then that was to Lazarus. But this matter is not worth the ſpeaking of““See b… to this pu… pag. 10… any further. Neither doe your Fathers prove any ſuch improbable, yea vnlawfull mourning & complayning in Chriſt. If they prove any thing towardes your meaning, it is this, that he complayned becauſe of his bodily dying. Howbeit they ſay not that he thus complayned only and meerely for that: neither I thinke will you plainly hold this, neither doe wee deny the other. The truth is they meane he ſuffered in his whole Humane nature:How the … thers are … taken. & namely that he ſuffered not as God. They ſtrove heere with Haeretikes, whoſe controverſies were far from this our queſtionffHilar. … Trin▪ li. … Hilary andggEpiph. … Arioma … Epiphanius wrot againſt Arius, to prove that Chriſt in this complaint ſhewed rightly a humane infirmity, and that this was not the voice of a Deity inferiour to the Father, as Arius blaſphemed. Theſe Fathers then had no purpoſe heere to exclude the ſufferings of Chriſtes Soule, but only to deny that his Godhead ſuffered & complayned as being left to puniſhment by his Father, when the ſorrowes of death began to prevayle againſt him. The very ſame doth††In Ma… can. 33. … Hilary alſo where he ſaith that this in Chriſt was Corporis vox, the outcry of his body. He plainly meaneth it of his whole manhood, the oppoſition p. 112being betweene it and his Godhead:…reat. 1. …g 9. as the Scripture † often doth. And where he ſaith, he was morte peragendus, to be cōſummated by death: he meaneth that death ended all his ſuffering, not that hee ſuffered nothing els but meerely death. And if their words do any where come neere to our queſtion,…ertul. cont. …ax. …ila in Mat. …au. 33. as it is very likely that h Tertulian and the one place of i Hilary doth, then ſurely they are plainly for vsus and againſt you. Tertullian pointeth in this place at certaine Haereſies maintained in his time wherwth it ſeemeth Praxeas was infected.

1 That the Father ſuffered aſwell as the Sonne when Chriſt ſuffered:

2 That the Deity ſuffered:

3 That Chriſt was no true nor perfit man.

All theſe pointes Tertullian overthroweth heere, Quid de isto quaeris, &c. What inquire you of Christ? You heere him crying out in his Paſſion, My God my God why hast thou forſaken me? The Sonne therefore ſuffered, being forſaken of his Father: but this is meant of the Fleſh and of the Soule, that is of the Man, not of the Word nor of the Spirit. Heere it is plaine that Tertullian ſheweth beſides the reſt, this point exactly, that Chriſt was a very man, in that he had a proper Body and a Soule, and that this his ſuffering on the Croſſe was in both theſe partes, and ſo in his whole & intire manhood. Alſo that he ſuffered in both theſe parts even frō his Father.…eere pag. 63. …at 1. pa 4 But he could not ſuffer in his Soule frō † God, if he felt only and meerely but a bodily death, as you hold. And to ſuffer the ſtroke of Gods hand in his Soule as the proper vengeance of ſin, is farre more then to feele in Soule by ſympathy only the bodies ſmart. Neither had Tertull. overthrowē but confirmed that Haereſie of Chriſts being no true natural man, if he had ſaid, that in this caſe he ſuffered in Soule only by ſymphathy with and from the Body. But this is abſurd to thinke in Tertullian. Therefore in this place he is flatly againſt you. And this Derelictiō of his Father which he ſpeaketh of, is Death indeed to the Sonne. But what death? Forſooth more then the ſeparation of the Soule and Body.…at Death …e Soule in …iſt wee …ne. Even the ſeperation of the Deity from the whole manhood: which is the death of the Soule. I ſpeake heere nothing but the Fathers words, yea the Scriptures. Your owne place of Epiphanius ſaith that nowe his Deity departed from his manhood. So ſaith your owne Hilary alſo, Corporis vox contestata recedentis a ſe Dei diſſidium. So ſaith Ambroſe, Clamavit Homo Divinitatis ſeparatione moriturus: The man Chriſt did cry being about to dy by the ſeparation p. 113of his Godhead. Againe Sequestrata delectatione Divinitatis aternae taedio meae infirmitatis afficitur. The ioy of his eternall Godhead being parted away, hee was afflicted with the tediouſnis of my infirmitie. Heere the Fathers doe ſhewe in deed that Chriſt dyed, but more then a meere bodily death: even the death of the Soule alſo. For what is the Separation of the Deitie from his Soule els, but the death of the Soule. Howbeit note, I pray, that neither the Fathers, nor I do meane any Separating 1 of the vnion ofaaThe D… & Hum… both natures in Chriſt, nor the Separating 2 of any Holynes or habituall grace of God from his Soule, 3 nor the Separating of Gods love from him,See befo… pag. 10… but the Separatiō of all comfortable feeling & aſſistance of the Godhead, in that he felt not any ſupporting of his Soule and Body now pierced thorow with the Paines which he felt inflicted by God. This Separatiō is meant, and itbbThoug… haps th… thers d… this ph… rarely. may be called the Death of the Soule. For as it isccPſal … life to the Soule to feele and to enioy the glorie of God: So it is death to feele the want and abſence thereof vtterly, and the rather being alſo then overwhelmed with incomparable paines. That heavenly life Chriſt taſted a litle while in his Transfiguratiō: this Helliſh Death he felt beſides his bodily death vponupon the Croſſe. And thus Tertull. meaneth heere that not Chriſts bodily death only made him now thus to cry out, but that death alſo which was the Separation of his Godhead from both his body & Soule; which is the death of the Soule. And ſo he ſaith true: the Dereliction of the Father, is Death to the Sonne. YourddPag. … 4. Expoſition 4for any thing I ſee may be granted: for it ſeemeth to bee the ſame in effect that wee holde. Your place of Cyrill ſeemeth alſo to concurre: that Chriſtes words of complaint were the removing of the dereliction which had fallen on vsus. Was it removed from vsus? then ſurely it was laid vponupon ſome body els. Now that muſt needes be vponupon him ſelfe. Where you obiect Athanaſius, Cont. A… Serm.that He could not be forſaken of his Father, who was alwayes in his Father. It is meerely wreſted: Athanaſius ſpeaketh againſt Arius alſo, that Chriſtes Deitie could not be forſaken of his Father, ſeeing it is alwayes in his Father: and ſo was not inferior to the Father, which was Arius haereſy. Touching his humanity he denyeth not but God might forſake it: For the Scripture ſaith ſo. And in deed he forſooke it by cauſing in it the feeling of all Paines for ſinne, and by leaving it therin for a while all comfortles. Your 5. Expoſition p. 1145is Leos conceit without warrant, far fetcht, hardly applyed: tha… heere Chriſt putteth vsus in minde why God doth often not heare our prayers, but provideth better for vsus then if our wils were ſatisfied: & that this is a mysticall ſenſe. …g. 37.a Origen alſo is heere as weake: that Christ meaneth nothing ells but that hee was abaſed lower then his divine maiesty. 6Alſo theſe ſenſes be contrary to all the reſt heere obſerved. Your 6. and laſt alſo is likewiſe as contrary to the reſt, and as improbable in it ſelf (or more) then the former. That Chriſt heere ſhould cite the beginning of that b Pſalme,…al. 22. only to ſhew the Iewes that their wrongs towardes him were Propheſied of before. ThisccTreat. 1. …g 66. already I fully anſwered, which you refute not. Likewiſe where you ſay,…g. 65. 66. He ſung the whole Pſalme: it is d anſwered. Whe…in moreover this is to be noted, that ſurely hee now vttered no more of this Pſalme but the 1. verſe, Eli, Eli, Lamma ſabachtham, For heereby the ſtanders by imagined that he called for Elias. Therefore he ſung not the Pſalme. Your authorities are bare arguments. Ierom bringeth no reaſon but his own word. Chryſostom, I ſee not what he ſaith to your purpoſe at all. Finally thoſe kindes of Dereliction which you mention c beſides,…g 32. 33. &c are nothing fitter then the former. Thus far I have waded in examing your ſundry and variable expoſitions of one poore little plaine ſentence of Scripture. At leaſt 6. or 7. divers, yea contrary ſenſes you have brought of a few wordes:… 14. & of them all you ſay, They are f all godly expoſitions, and † All theſe interpretations are ſound, …g 37.and ſtand well with the rules of Christian pietie. How ſound and fit they are, it hath ben ſeene. But verily you have a good head if you can reconcile all theſe: and make them ſtand togeather: and a very bad opinion of the holy Scriptures you ſeeme to have, if you thinke they may be handled by interpretations and expoſitions thus, that a man may take them in 6. or 7. divers ſenſes and all iuſtifiable. Your ſaying therefore,…g. 113. that g you have ſpoken before aſmuch (to this matter) as may content any man that is not fastened to his fancies more then to to the truth, I omit as vaine and frivolous.