Attestation of Many Learned Godly and Famous Divines, Chapter 6
CHAP. VI. Our very Adverſaries do acknowledge with vsus the truth of this doctrine, ſometimes in plaine termes,Chap. 6. and ſometimes to the ſame full effect; ſpecially when they deale against the Papistes.
THE force and evidence of this truth, (viz. touching the peoples right for their free conſent in Church governement) is ſuch, that alſo our very Adverſaries ſometimes in plaine termes, ſometimes to the ſame full effect do acknowledge it. Among many, I will content my ſelfe with two for the preſent, viz. D. Bilſon, and D. Downame. The firſt of theſe in his Anſwer to the Apologie of the Seminarie Priſtes and Ieſuits writeth thus:“D. Bila. againſt the Seminar. part. 2 353.356. We have the words and warrant of the H. Ghost for that which we ſay &c. viz. That the people can and ought to diſceme and trie the doctrine and ſpirits of the Teachers, &c ſo to choſe and refuſe thē as they by the word ſhould ſee good. Thus ſaith hee. And what can be ſpoken by any of our ſelves more plainly, and more fully to our purpoſe? If the people can and ought to choſe their Teachers, and to refuſe whom they finde worthy to be refuſed, then why are they not allowed ſo to do in England? If the wordes and warrant of the holy Ghoſt be for it, then who may impeach it? Who may reſiſt it? What are they that revile and perſecute this way? Hee addeth heere in this place that the people“Pag. 355. have skill and leave to diſcerne both, viz. to diſcerne the Teachers & their doctrine. Where alſo hee diſcourſeth much vponupon this right of the people as being Chriſtes ordināce, and preſſeth it againſt the Papiſtes. Yea, in another booke where he pleadeth to the contrarie purpoſe againſt vsus, yet hee writeth thus:Perpet gov. pag 300. *The Apoſtles left Elections indifferently to the people and Clergie of Ieruſalem The people had as much right to choſe their Paſtor as the Clergie that had more skill to iudge.“Pag 339. Well may the peoples intereſt ſtand vponupon the grounds of Reaſon & Nature, and be derived from the rules of Chriſtian equitie.*Pag. 359. The late Biſhops of Rome have not ceaſed curſing and fighting, till excluding both Prince and people they reduced the Election wholy to the Clergie. But hee telleth them, that by their leave, (applying heerevnto the wordes of Chriſt Mat. 19. 8.) it was not ſo from the beginning. Againe hee ſaith,†Pag. 330. I a knowledge each Church and people ſtand fr…e by Gods law to admit, maintaine, and obey no man as their Paſtor without their liking. Where in deed he addeth to the contrarie, vnles by law, cuſtome, or conſent they reſtraine themſelves. But this he him ſelfe els-where anſwereth roundly;“Pag. 221. What authoritie had others after the Apoſtles deathes, to chāge the Apoſtolike governement? And that it was not ſo from the beginning (which before he anſwered) is a full confutation alſo of this exception. As alſo where he calleth Mens ordinances in Church governement†Pag. 19. Corruptions of times inventions of Men, and a tranſgreſsing of the Commandement of God for the traditions of men. And where he calleth ſuch ordinances“Pag. 111. intruſion, and preſumption.
As for that he ſaith elswhere in this booke,†Pag 82. the Multitude (hee meaneth the Chriſtian people) neither could not can iudge of the giftes and abilities of Paſtors no more then blind men of colours. This ſheweth plainly his variable minde & contradiction to him ſelfe. As for the matter, it is ſpoken meerely out of an humour, and partialitie againſt vsus, and that his Lordſhip in ſpirituall things over Chriſtes people might be ſtabliſhed. But before againſt the maine adverſaries of the Goſpell (the Papiſtes) he taught the truth, as the Scripture there alleaged doth ſhew: but heere in this laſt place he turneth about, & ioyneth with them, rather then he would ſeeme to conſent with vsus. Nevertheles his former moſt cleere and ſyncere teſtimonie on our behalfe can not be blotted out.
Againe in the ſame booke ſpeaking of Biſhops, in plaine termes thus hee ſaith,“pag. 340. They have no power to impose a Paſtor on any Church against their willes, nor to force them to yeeld him obedience or maintenance against their liking. If this were ingenuouſly acknowledged and profeſſed, & practiſed likewiſe religiouſly, we ſhould deſire no more for the ſubſtance of the matter, as it hath ben often ſaide. Our agreement togeather touchinge Church-governement, would ſoone appeare. But he, when he liſteth, will tell vsus that Timothie and T…s (whom hee eſteemeth Biſhops) had power to make Presbyters to Churches (and the Apoſtles alſo)“pag. 88. without the people, or their conſent. Wherefore what to reckon of his ſayings and ſpeaches, we know not. Only his foreſaid agreement with vsus in wordes, is manifeſt.
Next to him wee will conſider of Doctor Downame. He in a certain place (though it ſeemeth full ſore againſt his will, yet through the force of the truth being compelled) acknowledgeth and yeeldeth vntounto vsus, that†D Down. Def. 4.99. the power of ordination and iuriſdiction by right is ſeated in the whole Church or Congregation in caſe of neceſsitie: wherein both the ſucceſsion of their owne Clergie fayling and the helpe of others wanting, the right is devolved to the whole body of the Church. In which words I deſire all men to obſerve how this Doctor graunteth vsus the cauſe in full effect, and agreeth wholy to our purpoſe. For that which heere hee ſaith, and which neceſſarilie followeth from theſe wordes, is all that we… deſire. Wherefore I pray the Chriſtian Reader to marke well theſe ſeaven Conſequentes which follow frō theſe wordes of D. Downame, and cannot be denyed by any honeſt and true-hearted Chriſtian.
Firſt, in that he holdeth that the power of ordination and iuriſdiction by right is ſeated in the particular Congregation in caſe of neceſsitie, it is certain therfore that he muſt hold that this right and power is ſeated in the whole particular Congregation by Chriſt, and by the ordinance of God. For no perſon or perſons can at any time nor in any reſpect have ſuch power by Mans ordinance. It can not bee either Naturally or Civilly given or receaved. Wherefore in whom ſoever that power is ſeated, & at what time ſoever, doubtles, it is in them Supernaturally: God by his ſpeciall grace giveth it, and Chriſt by his holy ordinance ſeateth it in them. Yea though it bee in any caſe of neceſſitie whatſoever. For thus it is written:“Iob 3.…7 A man can receave nothing, except it be given him from heaven. That is, No dignitie, no authoritie, no power in the Church can be, but from God. And it is ſpoken abſolutly touching all times, places, and perſons, without any limitation. The like proofe is that alſo in another text, viz.†Hebr. 9.… No man taketh this honour to him ſelfe but be that is called of God as Aaron was. But I wil preſſe this no further. For I ſuppoſe every Chriſtian adviſed will acknowledge it, and I have ſhewed it at large in a ſpeciall treatiſe for the purpoſe, viz. The Divine beginning and institution of Chriſtes true viſible, & Ministeriall Church.
Secondly, If Chiſt him ſelfe have ſeated the power of Ordination and Iuriſdiction in the whole Cōgregation at any time, then it is certain that ſo much is contained ſome-where in the New Teſtament. This is no Vnwritten Tradition, neither can be by any meanes, if Chriſt him ſelfe be the Author heereof, as before we have ſeene that he is.
Thirdly, This being contayned, in the New Teſtament, viz. that, Chriſt him ſelfe hath ſeated the power of ordination & iuriſdiction in the whole body of a particular Cōgregation in the caſe of neceſſitie, it is certain then that it is contained in thoſe ſpeciall places which (after many other worthy Divines) I have to this purpoſe cited and alleaged in the third and 9. Arguments of my forenamed Treatiſe of the Divine beginning and institu… of Christs true viſible, & Miniſterial Church. For there can bee no other inſtance ſhewed, at leaſt, none can bee ſhewed of any other tenor then thoſe are. Which ſpeciall places are theſe: Math. 18.17. and 1. Cor. 5.13. & 2. Theſ. 3.14. and 2. Co. 2.8. Alſo Act. 14.23. Act. 6.3.5.6. Act. 1.23.26. and Act. 15.22.25.28. as it appeareth in the foreſaid Arguments of the ſaid Treatiſe.
Fourthly, theſe places of Chriſtes Teſtament ſhewing that Chriſt hath ſeated the power of ordination and iuriſdiction in the whole particular Cōgregation, thē it muſt needes be that theſe ſhew the ſaid whole Congregation to have that power and right not in the caſe of neceſſitie only, but even alwayes at all ſeaſons. This likewiſe cannot be denyed. For in theſe ſpeciall places there is no reſtraint of this power and right in the Congregation, no abridging thereof, no tying it to the caſe of neceſſitie only: but they ſhew it to be in the people from God indefinitly and without limitation. Neither is it otherwiſe to be found in Chriſtes Teſtament any where els. Wherefore by no meanes may men reſtraine that which God hath given indefinitly: Nor take that away from …is people at any time, which he hath given them ſimply.2. Cor 2.24. What is proud …leſh and bloud to inhibit or leſſen Chriſts vnlimited free graunt & gracious gift to his Church? Or how can our ſoules reſt aſſured, whē we yeeld to ſuch preſumption of men? Wherevpon wee may fee that this reſtraining clauſe of our Doctor heere added, that this acknowledgement of his is not true of any particular Congregation but in paſe of neceſsitie, is both a falſe and abſurd addition. Falſe, as beeing contrary to the generalitie of thoſe ſpeciall places of Chriſtes Teſtament above mentioned: abſurd, as implying by neceſſary conſequence a contradiction to himſelfe in one & the ſame ſentence. For his preſent acknowledgement (ſuch as it is) implyeth the contrary to this his limitation by neceſſarie conſequence, as before in this fourth point I have ſhewed.
Fiftly, this power of Ordination and Iuriſdiction being by Chriſt ſeated in the whole Congregation, and that alwayes, ſurely then it muſt needs be in them only. And ſo I vnderſtand in another place“Decla… Pag. …. 35. where I ſay that this power is cōvertible with the Cōgregation. I affirme therefore that this power indeed is onelyonly in the whole Congregation. Although D. D. Downame hath skill to go two ways to Heaven (for the true Church-governemēt is the way to heavē) yet our good, holy, and wiſe God approoveth but one way; as where he ſaith:“Iſa. 30.21 This is the way, walke ye in it. Turne not therefrom, neither to the right hande, nor to the leſs. And where Chriſt ſaith,*Ioh. 14.6. I am the way, the truth, and the life. He alloweth ſimply but one way, even that which is his owne ordinance, and none other. Vas via, vna veritas. One way, one truth. Alſo, Veritas ſimplex, error autem multiplex. Truth is but one, Error is manifold. Wherefore it can not be, but the power of Ordination and Iuriſdiction being by Chriſt ſeated in the whole Congregation, it is alſo only in them.
Heere the adverſaries thinke they have a great advantage againſt vsus. They ſay, it appeareth in the Scripture that“1. Tim. 5.22. Tamothie and†Tit. 1.5. Titus had power of Ordination and iuriſdiction. Therefore only the Cōgregations had not that power.
I anſwer; This conſequence is vtterly falſe: it followeth not at all. For Timothie & Titus had the power of Ordination and iuriſdiction with the Congregations,Now the Cō gregatiō only had power. not without them. Being partes of them and being preſent in them for the time; not being perſonally out of them, or abſent frō them; So as the L. Biſhops do exerciſe their power in England Againe, as Paul ſaith to the Corinthians, that“2 Cor ….24. he was not … Lord over, their faith, but a helper to them for their …oy: So theſe, viz. Timothia and Titus in the Congregations were not Lords but they were Helpers to them in the managing of theſe affaires. They did not alone without the Congregations concurrence what themſelves liſted: but they ordered & guided the Congregations in this their buſines as Directors, and chiefe Counſellors, and as the moſt worthie to bee Actors thereof for them. And the like was the power of the Apoſtles alſo towards the Congregations. It was ſuch (I ſay) and none other. Indeed in their Doctrine and teaching they by them ſelves alone inſtructed them, & ſometime commaunded them in the name of Chriſt: but in outward governement they did not any thing alone, or Lordly, that is, without the Congregations free conſent. Wherefore much rather the power of all ordinarie true Biſhops and Paſtors is ſuch, and no greater. They have power of Ordination and iuriſdiction, but yet evermore with the Congregations preſence and free conſent, as their inſtruments doing their actes in the Churches name, and by their authoritie; not in their owne name, no… ſolely as Lords. So it remayneth evident, that Biſhops primitively, yea & Timothie and Titus, and the Apoſtle… themſelves had power of ordinarie Church governement: and yet the Congregations only had this power. Becauſe they evermore were partes of the Congregations in them, when they had and vſed their power. Sixtly, it followeth alſo neceſſarily from hence that the power of Ordination and iuriſdiction is in the body of the Congregation Subſtantially, Eſſentially, and Fundamentally after Chriſt; and the Congregation may bee truly ſaid in ſuch reſpect. to do & performe thoſe actions: the Biſhops and Guides do theſe actions Inſtrumentally and Miniſterially, and no otherwiſe then in the Congregations name, and by their authoritie, as is before noted. Whence it is that Doct. Downame heere ſaith truly, the ſucceſsion of their owne Clergie fayling, and the helpe of others wanting the right is devolved to the whole body of the Church. If the Doctor will reply & ſay, that this power and right is not eſſentially in the whole Congregation alwayes nor at all times, but ſometimes only, that is, in the caſe of neceſſitie aforeſaid. I anſwer, then the D. folly, and want of true reaſon will be manifeſt to all men. For what ſoever is eſſentiall to any thing at ſometime, is eſſentiall to the ſame alwayes and evermore. That which is eſſentiall once, is eſſentiall ſtill. So that if the Congregations power & right to conſent in making of Miniſters & in Cenſures be eſſentiall at ſometime (as he acknowledgeth it is) then certainly it is eſſentiall therein at all times and evermore. The truth heereof can never be denyed. And hence it is that Luther ſaieth, If Titus would not,Luth. de Miniſtr Eccleſ. inſtit prop… finem. the Congregation might ordaine Miniſters to them ſelves. And of Excommunication Zuinglius ſaith,“Artic. 31. Non quod ſolus Epiſcopus hac facere debeat, quiſque hoc …eſt, ſi Epiſcopus fuerit negligens. Any man may do this, if the Biſhop be negligent. Hee meaneth any Man appointed by the Church may do it. In which reſpect alſo that ſentēce of Epiphanius that†Epiph. haere… 75. Bi…ops can beget Fathers to the Church, but Presbyters can not, is to be refuſed as vntrue and erroneous. For before wee have ſeene that only the Cōgregation doth beget Fathers (that is, maketh Miniſters) eſſentially, the Biſhop doth it but inſtrumentally and Miniſterially. And ſo a Presbyter may do it as well as he whom they name a Biſhop: yea any other alſo may do it (as Luther and Zuinglius before affirme) when the Church imployeth them to that vſus… Our two Doctors before cited (even a… the Papiſtes alſo do) hold ſtrongly with thoſe wordes of“…aere…. 75. Epephanius, to the great preiudice of the Goſpel. But their bare opinions, & names are nothing to our cleere and certain reaſon for the contrarie before ſet downe. Neither are the bare opinions and naked names of any other men whoſoever, any better worth. Seventhly … laſt of all, hence it foloweth (ſo, that it can not bee denyed) that ſeeing th… whole Cōgregation doth always give the Calling of ordinary Miniſters eſſentially, therfore the whole Congregation ought alwayes of neceſſitie t… give their free conſent to their Miniſter, at leaſt ſo farre foorth that non… bee impoſed on them whether they will or no. The like alſo is to bee ſai… of their power in iuriſdiction. And theſe pointes wee muſt imagine that they are acknowledged and held by D. Downame, or ſurely that hee ought to acknowledge them all; ſeeing by force of true reaſon they al do follow from thoſe his wordes which he affirmeth & holdeth, as before I have declared. Now this is all that wee profeſſe touching the pleoples right t… Church government. For we deni… not but in the ordinarie, & peaceable▪ and right ſtate of the Church when al things are caried well, the chief di…ection & ſway of the whole government belongeth to the Biſhop or Pa…tor; the people beeing on their part …o hearken to their Teacher & to fol…ow their Guide obediently & dutie…ully.D. Down. De… 1.41. Their power to iudge and to provide otherwiſe for themſelves being, whē they ſee their Guides to faile. Which ſeeing it is his minde alſo, ſet downe in his owne words before re…earſed, I have truly affirmed that …ouching our preſent cauſe even this Doctor agreeth with vsus ſometime in …ull effect, & by good conſequence of …eaſon from his expreſſe wordes. Though at other times he do, as ſome report Cicero ſaid to Salust, “Orat. … Cicer. … Salust,Aliud ſtans, …d ſedens de repub. ſentis. Of the common …ealth thou thinkeſt one thing ſtanding, another ſitting. Of Chriſtes Viſible Church and the governement thereof, verily our Doctor doth likewiſe.