The Preachers Plea, Dialogue (1 of 4)
❧ The Preachers Plea: Or a Treatiſe in forme of a plaine Dialogue, making knowne the worth and neceſsitie of that which we call Preaching: ſhewing alſo how a man may profit by it, both for the informing of his iudgement, and the reforming of his life.
Epaphras a Miniſter. Nymphas a priuat man.
Nymphas.
SIr, vnleſſe I do very much miſtake, I hauehave oftē heard you in your publike ſermons vrge the ſufficiency that ought to be in a Miniſter, and eſpecially for the clearing of doubts and caſes of conſcience among thoſe of whō the holy Ghoſt hath made him an ouerſeer.
Epaphras.
It is not vnlike, that among other points deliuered in the ordinarie miniſtery, you hauehave receiued this alſo: for I am well aduiſed, that of old it was the appointment of God, that the Prieſts lips ſhould preſerue knowledge, and men ſhould ſeeke it at his mouth. Mal. 2.7.So that we all, as many as tender the good of the Church of Chriſt, hauehave cauſe to bewaile our countries eſtate, in which are ſo many VVels without water, 2. Pet. 2.17.as S. Peter termeth them, and that not vnfitly: for as a well placed by the way ſide, in regard of the outward ſéeming thereof, putteth the poore thirſty traueller in hope of ſome refreſhing; who repairing to it, and finding nothing but emptineſſe, goeth on his way with the greater diſcouragement: ſo theſe kind of men ſtanding in the Church of God, do by reaſon of their outward habite & ſemblance of grauitie, make the wearied, diſtreſſed & perplexed Chriſtian conceiue, that if he hauehave recourſe to them he ſhall certainely be reléeued: but yet when he maketh triall, he findeth them to his greater griefe, not vnlike to the images of the Heathen, VVhichWhich hauehave mouthes and ſpeake not; Pſal. 115.5.not hauing the tongue of the learned, Iſa 50.4.that they ſhould know how to miniſter a word in time to him that is weary. But tell me neighbor, I pray you, this being granted, what you would inferre hereupon?
Nymphas.
Surely, that which I would inferre hereupon is this, that you being by your calling a Miniſter, are therefore able, and being alſo by the prouidence of God that Miniſter, vponupon whoſe labours I muſt eſpecially depend, are willing alſo to enter diſcourſe with me, and to affoord me your beſt helpe for my better vnderſtanding in ſome points, wherein I hauehave of late dayes bene very much perplexed.
Epaph.
For mine abilitie in this behalf, what it ought to be I know, and what I wiſh I it to be, I know alſo; yet whatſoeuer it is, I ſhall be moſt willing (as my dutie is) to ſpend my time, to beſtow my labour, and to employ my beſt endeuors in ſo holy a buſineſſe as is your building vp in knowledge, and your furtherance in the wayes of godlineſſe. And I do heartily wiſh, that both you and others of our neighbors would more often giuegive me the like occaſion, I ſhould then the better know your doubts,The profit of conference betwixt the Miniſter and his people. and ſo fit my ſelfe to ſpeake in preaching to eueryevery mans conſcience, and you alſo ſhould by that means be reſolued in many things, which for lacke of conference muſt néeds breed ſcruple,Heb 5.14 eſpecially in thoſe which hauehave not yet through long cuſtome exerciſed wits to diſcerne both good and euill.
Nymp.
I am not a litle glad to heare this from you: for to tell you the truth plainely without flattery, I hauehave heard ſome complaine of a certaine ſtrangeneſſe in you and others of your coate, which they ſay hath diſcouraged them from aduenturing to conferre with you.
Epaph.
That may be but a pretence, & yet it will not altogether excuſe either others or my ſelfe herein: happily we be not ſo tender ouer the wants of our people as we ought to be. Howſoeuer to preuent any ſuch feare in you for this time, I pray you be bold to ſpeake your mind freely, and you ſhall find me far from ſeeming weary of you, or from giuing you any occaſion to thinke that I am vnwilling to ſeeke to reſolue you (as I may) in any thing that may trouble you. And I pray God, the God of all grace, euen for Chriſts ſake, ſo to bleſſe this our conference, by giuing to vsus both a right iudgment in al things, that it may be both to his glorie, and to our further comfort.
Nymp.
Amen. Well then, becauſe I do euē long to acquaint you with that which hath (when I hauehave bene by my ſelfe) much diſquieted me, you ſhall vnderſtand, that the occaſion mouing me at this time to craue your aduice, is this: Since it pleaſed God to let the light of the glorious Goſpel of his Sonne, by preaching to ſhine in theſe parts more clearely then in former yeares, The occaſion of the whole Dialogue.it hath happened that I hauehave fallen into the companie, ſometime of common men, ſometime of men of better faſhion, which in the world we call wiſe men; ſometime alſo of men of learning, and by profeſſion Miniſters; ſome of whom to my griefe I hauehave heard ſpeake very diſgracefully, ſome very ſcornefully, all of them to the leſſening of that reuerent eſtimation which we ought to hauehave of the preaching of the word, and of the ordinary courſe thereof which is amongſt vsus.
Epaph.
It is not vnlike,Reſiſtāce doth euer accompany the preaching of the truth neither yet indeed is it to be maruelled at, as though ſome ſtrange thing were come vntounto vsus. The diuell knoweth by long experience, that the preaching of the word is ye ruine of his kingdom, & that therby he is made like lightning to fall downe from heauen. Luke 10.18.And therefore it hath euer bene his practiſe, at the very firſt entrance of ſincere preaching,…. Tim. 3.8. to raiſe vp ſome men of corrupt minds, to reſiſt the truth, and to ſtop the happie proceedings of the Goſpell. The firſt Preacher mentioned in the Scripture, is Enoch the ſeuenth from Adam, together with the relation of whoſe doctrine, the text mentioneth alſo the cruell ſpeakings, Inde 14 15.and violent curſes of wicked ſinners againſt him. The next after him was Noah, … Pet. 2.5.which was a Preacher of righteouſneſſe: and howſoeuer the ſtorie mentioneth expreſly no tumults raiſed vp againſt him, yet it may eaſily be gathered, in that he preaching ſo many yeares before the comming of the floud, yet all that while we do not find any one to hauehave bene reclaimed, but they all continued in their accuſtomed ſecuritie, and knew nothing till the floud came and tooke them all away. Mat. 24.39.Paſſe from him to Moſes, of whoſe reſiſtance the ſtorie relateth many particulars: at his firſt vndertaking any authoritie among the people, in ſéeking to end a ſtrife betwixt them, he was taken vp ſhort with the common ſpéech,Exod. 2.14 VVho made thee a man of authoritie and a iudge ouer vsus? After, when he was ſent backe into Egypt to deliuer the people from the bondage of Pharaoh, Exod. 5.20.the ſtory is a witnes how often and openly he was gainſaid, ſometimes by the people, they murmuring at him; ſometimes by Iannes and Iambre, 2 Tim 3 …. Numb. 16.two Egyptians, ſomtimes by Korah and his complices: ſo that though the Lord wrought mightily by Moſes, yet he had daily experience of the malice of the wicked againſt the truth. Now for the times of the Prophets, one Ieremie may be a ſufficient witneſſe: he ſaith,Ierem. 20.….10 he heard the railing of many, and the word of the Lord which he preached was a reproach vntounto him, and in deriſion daily. If you examine the times after Chriſt, at the firſt ſpreading of the Goſpell, this wil be more apparant. Run through the book of the Acts:Act. 2.13. the preaching of Peter and Iohn was entertained firſt with mocking: afterwards more open violence was vſed,Act. 4.2. & the men in authoritie tooke it grieuouſly that they taught the people, and by cōmon conſent put them to ſilence.Ver. 18. Steuen was a man ful of faith and of the holy Ghoſt, and they were not able to reſiſt the wiſedome and the ſpirit by which he ſpake, Act 6.5 9.10.12yet certaine aroſe euen of the ſynagogue, and moued the people againſt him. Paul was mightily withſtood,Act. 13.8. Act 14 19. Act. 19 24. 1. Tim. 1.15. & 2.17. ſometimes by Elimas the ſorcerer, ſometimes by the Iewes, ſometimes by Demetrius and thoſe of that faction, ſomtime by Phygellus and Hermogenes, otherwhiles by Hymeneus and Philetus. Thus we hauehave euen a cloud of witneſſes to confirme this, that it hath euer bin the diuels courſe by all meanes to withſtand the preaching of the truth. And therefore maruell not, good neighbor, at it, when you ſee the like in theſe times: theſe are Satans old pranks, and he will thus beſtirre himſelfe to the end.
Nymp.
Bleſſed be God, you hauehave well ſatisfied me in this: ſo that I now ſee that thoſe which louelove the truth, hauehave cauſe to reioyce at it, rather then to be diſmayed when they ſhall ſee the outrage of the world, and the fury of carnall men againſt the publiſhing of the Goſpell.
Epaph.
You are not deceiued: for the diuel his ſtrugling on this wiſe, ſheweth that there is a ſtronger then he come, to bind him,Lu… 11.2…. and to take his armor frō him. And though the oppoſitions of men are at the firſt aſſault ſomthing troubleſome, yet we hauehave euer cauſe to reioyce, when wee can ſay iuſtly,Luke 6.23. After this maner did they to the Prophets.
Nymp.
Yet ſir, by your leaue, I cannot but maruell, that ſeeing the preaching of the word is ſo excellent a thing as it is, euē the power of God vntounto ſaluation, Rom. 1.16.men ſhould notwithſtanding ſo eagerly reſiſt it, and ſhew themſelues ſo great enemies vntounto it.
Epaph.
You wil ceaſe to wonder, when you ſhal truly vnderſtand the cauſes mouing worldly and vnregenerate men to malice and maligne that, which indeed as you ſay, if the worth thereof were knowne, they ought rather with al reuerence to embrace: and if you thinke that it may be helpfull vntounto you in that, wherein you deſire to be reſolued, I will open the ſame vntounto you ſomthing more at large.
Nymp.
You cannot content me better, then if you ſhall vndertake to diſcourſe therof: for (as I ſuppoſe) when I hauehave once learned the true cauſe why preaching is ſo much miſliked, I ſhall the loſſe feare the pretenced reaſons which I dayly heare to be alleaged againſt it.
Epaph.
The cauſes of the diſlike of preachingThe true cauſes why the courſe of preaching, when it is performed ſo as it ought,The firſt cauſe is ſo much repined at, are theſe three eſpecially. The firſt is this. As men louelove nothing more then their ſinnes, ſo they loath nothing more then the diſcouery thereof: they can by no meanes endure to hauehave their ſecret coruptions ript vp: it is a death vntounto them to be thoroughly & directly dealt withal. Wicked Ahab hated the ſincere Prophet of the Lord Michaiah, 1 King. 22.8.becauſe he neuer propheſied good vntounto him, but euill; that is, he neuer ſpared him, but deliuered the truth of God vntounto him plainly without flattery. Now the preaching of the word, it is as the prouerb is, The finger in the bile;Vng… in where it is euer rubbing vppon the gall: and being light, Eph. 5 13.it maketh all things manifeſt, and diſcloſeth eueryevery mans cloſe and ſecret vngodlines. In the dayes of blindneſſe (that is, in times and places where there is not a ſetled courſe of preaching) many a man ſeemeth to himſelfe and to others alſo to be vnreproueable, who when the light of the word by powerful application breaketh out, is diſcouered both to others, & eſpecially to his owne conſcience, to be nothing elſe then that which he was ſuppoſed to be. Here is thē one cauſe of diſlike: the word thus handled, openeth that which men of all other things deſire moſt to be concealed: ſo that it is true of the word of Chriſt, which he witneſſeth of himſelfe,Iohn 7.7. The world hateth me, becauſe I teſtifie thereof that the workes of it are euill. Tell me now I pray you, what thinke you of this?
Nymp.
Truly I cannot but beare witneſſe to the truth hereof out of mine owne experience. For howſoeuer, I hauehave now learned, I thanke God, to ſay with Dauid; Let the righteous ſmite me, Pſal. 141.5.for that is a benefite; let him reproue me, and it ſhall be a precious oile that ſhall not breake my head: yet I well remember, when I firſt heard preaching, I was many times diſcontented: me thought the Preacher was too peremptory, and a great deale more plaine then needed; yea I had much ado at times, not to perſwade my ſelfe that I was chiefly aimed at in ſome things, and that the Preacher had receiued ſome ſecret informations touching me and my demeanour, which he there opened in the pulpit. So hard a thing is it for fleſh and bloud to beare the words of reproofe, yea though in the witneſſe of a mans owne conſcience he hath eueryevery way deſerued the ſame. But I hartily beſeech God on the behalfe of you and others of your ſort, that he would enlarge your ſpirits, Eph 8 19.and giuegive vtterance vntounto you, that you may open your mouthes boldly to publiſh the ſecret of the Goſpell. For I thinke there were neuer any dayes of greater ſecuritie, Iſa. 58 1in which it is needfull that the men of God ſhould lift vp their voice like a trumpet, to ſhew the people their tranſgreſſions and the houſe of Iacob their ſins: becauſe indeed as it was ſaid of old, Zach 1 11.All the world ſitteth ſ…ll and is at reſt. And I wiſh vnfainedly, that the ſeuerall watchmen in their particular charges would remember that Item which the ſpirit of God giueth by the Prophet. Iſa. 62 6.Ye that are mindfull of the Lord keepe not ſilence. But ſir I am afraid I do too much interrupt you, therefore I pray you proceed to ſhew the next reaſon of diſlike.
Epaph.
You hauehave ſaid the very truth. We can be content to heare the word vntill it rifle vsus. But as a purging potiō, as long as it is in drinking, is but as other drink vntil it worke, and then we could be content to caſt it vp againe: ſo we can quietly heare the word vntill it work vponupon vsus, but then it ſeemeth a burden vntounto vsus.The ſecond cauſe of the diſlike of ſincere preaching But to come to the opening of the ſecond reaſon of the diſlike of preaching: I hauehave by obſeruation found it to be this, becauſe preaching is (as they ſuppoſe) an enemy vntounto libertie, a thing which by nature eueryevery man deſireth to enioy. In the ſecond Pſalme we reade what is the opinion that men hauehave of Chriſtian obedience,Pſal. 2.3. they call it bands & cords, that is to ſay, meere ſeruilitie and ſlauery, a baſe and ignominious thing to be conformable. This is the very right conceipt which worldlings hauehave of yeelding them ſelues vntounto the doctrine of Chriſt Ieſus. When Lot admoniſhed the Sodomites,Gen. 19 9. & begā to perſwade with thē to deſiſt from violence againſt the ſtrangers that were with him in his houſe; they cried ſtraite, Shall he iudge and rule? Forthwith they began to repine againſt his godly aduiſe, as againſt a matter of too much tyrannie in Lot, and of too great ſubiection in themſelues. It was the imputation of Korah and his adherents to Moſes and Aaron, Num. 16.3.You take too much vponupon you: they déemed the gouernement of Moſes too peremptery, as an enemy to their liberty, & therefore not to be endured. When the Prophet Amos preached, it was ſaid,Amo… 7.10. that the land was not able to beare his words: as who ſhould ſay, his ſermons were too cenſorious: men that were of a liberall and free diſpoſition were not able to digeſt them. One reaſon which the Iewes had againſt Chriſt to ſtir vp themſelues to find a meanes to ſuppreſſe him, was, becauſe they ſuppoſed that if they let him alone,Iohn 11.48. the Romanes would come and take away both their place and nation. They thought bondage wold follow vponupon his doctrine. This might eaſily be enlarged with the additiō of many examples: but our owne experience may be a ſufficient confirmation. For euen at this day the world maintaineth the ſame opinion of obedience and conformitie in Chriſtian duties, that it is an abridgement to liberty, that it ſauoreth of ſlauiſhnes & baſeneſſe for a man at the words of a Preacher to be reſtrained.
Nymph.
Truly ſir it is euen ſo: for out of my poore experience I am able to witneſſe thus much, that many men imagine that for them to liue without controlment, following the ſway of their owne affections, if they may ſweare and blaſpheme, and be vicious and riotous, and drink with the drunkard, and profane the Sabbaoth, and ſcoffe at zeale and ſinceritie in religiō, and runne into all manner of exceſſe, this is libertie. On the other ſide, they repute the reſtraint from any of theſe things to be the greateſt thraldome; a miſery it is to be kept within compaſſe, that a man may not ſweare, may not ſpend the Lords day in ſports, or in worldly buſineſſes, or in trauelling vponupon his owne occaſions, that he muſt ſet ſuch a narrow watch before his mouth, as that there ſhould be no filthines nor fooliſh talking, nor ieſting: that he ſhould be tied to the continuall hearing of the word, to often receiuing the ſacrament, and the like, this is a miſery of all miſeries, a thing not to be endured: they crie when you tel thē theſe things, This is a hurd ſaying, who can abide it? and determine as thoſe of whom you ſpake, Let vsus breake their bands, and caſt their cords from vsus. But reſolue me herin I pray you ſir, is this liberty? Are not men herein altogether miſtaken?
Epaph.
Yes verily: for howſoeuer men think themſelues iolly fellowes, becauſe they can ſeeme to contemne all gouernement, yet in indeed of all conditions it is the baſeſt, and of al thraldomes the moſt ſlauiſh for a man to be ſubiect vntounto ſin, to be giuen ouer to his owne luſts, to be led wholly by the corrupt affections of his owne hart, and to ſay the truth, euen in reaſon it muſt needs be ſo: for, as to be a ſlaue and a vaſſall is in it ſelfe very opprobrious, and ſuch a thing as euen the nature of man doth abhorre: ſo the more vile he is to whom a man is in bondage, the more baſe and odious is it in the eyes of others, and the more tedious to himſelf if he be of any ingenious diſpoſition. Now what more vile thing can there be imagined then ſinne is? What more abhominable before God, what more dangerous to the ſoule of him that committeth it? ſo that ſin being a thing ſo vile, in how ſeruile an eſtate is he that is a ſlaue and a vaſſal therunto? Do you conceiue me in this?
Nymph.
I conceiue you well. But yet this breedes a further doubt: we may all complaine with the Apoſtle, that we are euen captiue vntounto the law of ſinne: Rom 7 23.who then is he that may be called a ſlaue of ſinne?
Epaph.
Our Sauiour ſhall make you anſwer: He that committeth ſinne, Iohn 8.34.is the ſeruant of ſinne: to which, to make it more plaine,Rom. 6.16. you may adde the ſaying of the Apoſtle, Know ye not that to whom ſoeuer you giuegive your ſelues as ſeruants to obey, his ſeruants you are to whom you obey? The latter place is an expoſitiō to ye other. He (ſaith Chriſt) that cōmitteth ſinne, is the ſeruant of ſinne: he committeth ſinne (ſayth Paul) that obeyeth ſin: now he is ſaid to obey ſinne, that finding his corrupt heart to prouoke him to any thing, ſets himſelf preſently to performe the ſame, or as the holy Ghoſt ſpeaketh, taketh thought for the fleſh to fulfill the luſtes thereof. Rom. 13 14So the adulterer is a ſlaue to his ſinne, becauſe he is wholly at the commaund thereof, ſtudying how to compaſſe the ſame, and to ſatiſfie his vncleane deſires to the vttermoſt. The drunkard is a vaſſall to his ſinne, becauſe it is as it were his buſineſſe, to ſet himſelfe to the committing of it, to get money to beſtow vponupon it, to gather company that he may hauehave fellowes in it, to riſe early to follow it, to make his body able to beare it. The couetous perſon is a drudge to his money: for, for it he will do any thing, he will defeate one, and defraud another, and oppreſſe a third, and grind the fourth, and take vſury of the fift, and rake and wring, and extort, and lie and forſweare, and whatſoeuer elſe for his money. He is ſuch a ſeruant to it, as the Centurions ſeruants were to him: If money ſay to him, Go, he trudgeth by and by: if it ſay Come, it hath him at a becke: if it bid him do this, be it neuer ſo vile, vniuſt or vnlawful, eftſoons he doth it. In like maner the cōtinual gameſter, is as it were in the ſtate of villenage to his humor, he will neglect all other occaſions, either of reſt for his body, or of profite for his outward eſtate, or of religion for his ſoules good, to fulfill it: for his life (if company be for him) he is not able to forbeare it. In like ſort, the ignorant man is in bondage to his blindnes; for bring all the perſwaſions you can againſt it out of the word of God, yet ignorance ſhall ſtill hauehave the vpper hand, either he will not conceiue you, or he wil not beleeue you, or he wil not be directed by you. So againe, the ſuperſtitious is in thraldome to his owne peeuiſhneſſe; for let God commaund what he will, or preſcribe what form of worſhip he thinketh good, yet thus and thus it hath bene ſo long, and ſo it ſhal be, and ſo wil I do for euer. In a word, whoſoeuer ſuffereth himſelfe to be led by the corruption of his owne heart in any thing, without making reſiſtance, without deſiring the aſſiſtance of Gods ſpirit to withſtand it, whether it be pride, malice, reuenge, or whatſoeuer elſe, the ſame is a ſlaue to his ſinne, a drudge to his owne humor, and the baſeſt creature vnderunder heauen. Nay he is more ſlauiſh by degrees, then thoſe ſlaues whō they vſed in old times (and as they do ſtill in ſome countries) to buy with money, and to vſe at their pleaſure. For there is no ſuch ſlaue, but he keepeth a free mind in a ſeruile eſtate: but men generally being in this moſt filthy and wretched thraldome, thinke thēſelues to be in the moſt happy eſtate that may be, and hauehave no will nor diſpoſition to be freed, but are enemies to the meanes of their deliuery. Thus hauehave I ſhewed you, that though men thinke themſelues at libertie when they may liue licenciouſly, yet they are much deceiued: it may be ſaid of them as Noah ſaid of Canaan:Gen. 9.2…. ſeruants of ſeruants they be, doing the buſineſſe of the diuell, not grudgingly or vnwillingly as bondſlaues vſually do, but readily, greedily, and ioyfully.
Nymph.
I am (I thanke you) well ſatisfied for this: yet by the way giuegive me leaue to demaund of you one thing, doeth not Paul ſay to Chriſtians, Brethren ye hauehave bene called into libertie: Gal. 5.13.ſo that it ſeemeth there is libertie euē in Chriſtianitie, which what it is (if any ſuch be) I pray you to inſtruct me.
Epaph.
Certainly the ſtate and calling of a true Chriſtian, is a louely calling, a calling that calleth men vntounto it, ſuch a calling as that the beames thereof are able to rauiſh the eye. True it is, that euer ſince Adam did eate the apple, all the mouthes of his poſterity are ſo out of taſt, that we can neither heare nor ſee, nor taſt any thing that good is, ſo that if we looke vponupon the eſtate of a Chriſtian liuing in obedience, with an eye of fleſh, it looketh euē like Chriſt for al the world, euen as a withered branch, Iſa. 5….…and like a root in the drie ground; when we ſee it, there is no forme that we ſhould deſire it. The eye of a natural man can ſée no good in it, vnleſſe it be good to cleane vntounto the Lord, or it is good to be afflicted, or it is good to run the way of Gods commandements, and ſuch like, which are like pilles, and to die for it, will not downe with a carnall man, yet if it be duly conſidered, it is the onelyonly eſtate of libertie. It is not a fleſhly libertie, a libertie for men to do and ſpeake, and liue as they themſelues pleaſe, eueryevery man after his owne faſhiō, as though the reines ſhould be layed on eueryevery mans neck, and he left to his owne diſpoſition. It is no ſuch liberty, for then the more Libertine the better Chriſtian, and then all the world would ſoone be religious, for all the world are welneare Libertines. But this liberty which Chriſtians hauehave, is a ſpirituall libertie, a heauenly liberty, a liberty of the ſoule; not which giueth the body liberty from obedience, but which ſetteth the ſoule at liberty from deſtruction: not which maketh vsus free to ſin, but which ſetteth vsus frée to ſerue God: not which giueth a man leaue to liue as caring for none, but which maketh him by louelove a ſeruant vntounto all: a fréedome it is from the bondage of Satan, from the thraldom of ſin, frō the heauy curſe of Gods law, giuing an intereſt into Gods fauor, into the merits of Chriſt, into the felicity of the choſen, into the eternal inheritance of Gods kingdome. This is the liberty of Chriſtians; of which, howſoeuer worldly men which ſauor onelyonly of earthly things may iudge, yet ſuch it is and ſo great, & hath ſo many priuiledges annexed thereunto, as that all the enfranchiſements and fréedomes of this world are not worthy therewith to be compared. For as the new Ieruſalem, which is from aboue, is of all other cities and incorporations the moſt glorious, ſo it is ye greateſt priuiledge that any man can attaine, to be, of a ſtranger and a forreiner, admitted to be a citizen and free denizen of that ſocietie. Thus at your requeſt I hauehave giuen you a taſte of the doctrine of Chriſtian Libertie: the obedient Chriſtian is the true free-man, euen the Lords free-man.
Nymph.
Doubtleſſe this is a moſt excellent point, and to the ſoule of a Chriſtian exceeding comfortable: how much therefore are we bound to giuegive thankes to our heauenly Father, who hath deliuered vsus from the power of darkneſſe, Col. 1.1… 13.and hath tranſlated vsus into the kingdom of his deare Sonne. And I beſeech God giuegive vsus the grace, that being thus made free from ſinne, Rom 6.18we may become the ſeruants of righteouſneſſe: that ſo hauing our fruite in holineſſe, the end may be euerlaſting life. But now if it pleaſe you, Ver …I long to heare the third cauſe of the ſmall regard of Preaching.
Epaph.
The third cauſe of contemptuous reſiſtance,The … cauſe … the …ke … preaching. is the iudging of that which is taught by the outward ſemblance of the teacher: as for example: Some great man in the world, that happily is a Magiſtrate, or a man of note and ſpecial reckoning in the place where he liueth, comming to the Church, and hearing his ſinne reproued, and ſuch and ſuch duties perſwaded, ſtraite he caſteth his eye vponupon the perſon of the ſpeaker, and him he ſeeth to be but ſome ordinary man, one that if he ſhould come in place where he is, ſhould be ſerued as the poore man in the torne coate,Iam. 2. of whom S. Iames ſpeaketh, that ſhould bee bidden to ſtand there aloofe off, or ſit here at my footſtoole; eftſoone he beginneth to thinke with himſelfe, that it would be a ſhame for him to ſuffer the words of ſuch a one ſo far below him in the world, to cary ſo great authority with him, as that he ſhould by and by conforme himſelfe to his perſwaſions. Another perhaps that hath had ſome good education, and thereby hath gotten ſome taſt of learning, or is otherwiſe by obſeruation & experience growne to be a man of ſome reach and capacitie: he when he compareth himſelf with ye teacher, ſeemeth to ſée as much (if not more) learning, iudgement, reading and vnderſtanding in himſelfe as in him: and therfore he ſayth with himſelf, Why ſhould I yeeld to his inſtruction? why ſhould his opinion ſway ſo far with me, as to draw me from mine owne courſes? why ſhould not I be as wel able to iudge what is méete as he? A third, that is (it may be) ſome gallant, a man of ſpirit, that thinketh it a part of his courage to be without feare euen of God himſelfe, he hearing at a ſermon threatnings denounced againſt ſin, and againſt thoſe very ſins wherof his life is a continuall practiſe, in the greatneſſe of his ſtomacke, and in the prophaneſſe of his heart beginneth to ſet all at nought, imagining that it cānot ſtand with that hardineſſe and vndaunted reſolution which he profeſſeth, to be ſtrikē with the words of a ſilly man, or to hauehave his heart terrified with a few idle ſpéeches. In a word, the people generally do not conſider how well a thing is ſpoken, how ſufficiently proued, how ſoundly ſeconded and made good by the word, this neuer entereth into their thought: but they ſee that he which preacheth, what is he but a man of their owne ſort, one neither armed with authority to puniſh them, nor endued with power to conſtraine them, neither yet furniſhed with wealth to contend with them: and that al his force lyeth in his tongue, the exerciſe whereof when it is once paſt, there is all that he can do, and therefore they make a Tuſh at his doctrine, and ſay of the Preacher as they did of old, He is but wind, Ierem. 5.13.and what is he that he ſhould command vsus? Thus, this alſo is one cauſe of reſiſtance to the holy doctrine taught, men looke no higher then the man, and they value all that is ſayd by the quality of the ſpeaker.
Nymph.
This diſcourſe of yours, ſo fully diſcouering the proud conceits of an vnreformed heart, calleth to my mind the commendation which Paul giueth of the Theſſalonians When ye receiued of vsus (ſaith he) the word of the preaching of God, 1. Theſſ 2.13.ye receiued it not as the word of men, but as it is indeed the word of God: for ſo long as men hauehave no higher a conceipt of that which they heare, then that it is but a mans doctrine, the reſpect vntounto it cannot chooſe but be very ſmall; ſo that I muſt needs yeeld vntounto you in this, that this alſo may well go among the number of the cauſes why preaching is of ſo ſlender eſtimation here amongſt vsus. Yet ſir, men that are enemies in this caſe, do pretend other reaſons, and will not be knowne of any of theſe to be the occaſion or cauſe of their diſlike.
Epaph.
That is moſt true, for ſinne doeth euer ſeeke ſhades, and it is a tricke which we hauehave learned of our grandfather Adam, Gen. 3.7.to ſew figge-leaues together to couer our nakedneſſe. For ſhame men will not ſay that they are hereby moued to diſlike: yet notwithſtanding theſe be the true grounds, and men in their conſciences know it to be ſo. If a man had aſked of Paſhur why he ſmote Ieremie the Prophet, and put him in the ſtockes,Ierem. 20.2. no doubt but he would tell you a very formall tale, as that,chap. 26.11. He propheſied againſt the citie: he hath not ſought the wealth of the people, but the hurt: chap. 38.4and that he diſcouraged the hands of the men of warre, in ſpeaking ſuch wordes vntounto them. This would be Paſhurs pretence, thus he wold pleade for his ſtraite courſes againſt the poore Prophet, yet this is but a colour: for the very matter is, Ieremie was a little too bold, he ſpake too plaine, his ſermons were like a fire,Ierem. 23.29. and like a hammer that breaketh the ſtone, he kept not a word backe of al that the Lord commanded him.
Nymph.
Indeede I hauehave heard much ſpoken by many, and diuers exceptions made againſt preaching, but I neuer heard any man acknowledge his diſlike to proceede from any of theſe cauſes which you hauehave named: I wiſh therefore that you would inſtruct me how to ſtop the mouths of gaine-ſayers, when I light into the companie of ſuch. They will not perhaps ſay much to your faces that are Preachers, but ſuch as I am ſhall often heare them talke at libertie, and vtter the very bottom of their ſtomackes, and ſpend all their powder and ſhot to the beating downe of that which I hope they ſhall neuer be able to ouerthrow.
Epaph.
Aſſure your ſelfe of that: for we may be bold to ſay in the comfort of a good conſcience,2 King 6.16. They that be with vsus, are moe then they that be with them. And when we come on the ſame errand with Ieremie, why may we not hope vponupon the ſame promiſe,Ierem. 1.19. They ſhal fight againſt thee but they ſhall not preuaile againſt thee, for I am with thee to deliuer thee, ſaith the Lord: yet notwithſtanding, leſt their conceipts ſhould be any hindrance to thoſe that are well affected, or it ſhould be an encouragement to them in their euill, when they find thoſe that ſéeme contrary minded, vnable to anſwer them, therfore I do both commend your care herein, and will be as helpefull to you as I am able in opening the vanitie of their ſeuerall exceptions, that are enemies vntounto preaching.
Nymph.
I thanke you for it: and I truſt that he which commanded Peter when he was himſelfe conuerted, Luke 22 32.to ſtrengthen the brethren, will both bleſſe your care to my profite, and render to you ſeuen fold into your boſome, the comfort that I ſhall receiue by your aduice. I will be bold therefore, as farre as I can call to mind, to make knowne vntounto you eueryevery thing that I hauehave heard obiected in this caſe.
Epaph.
Be ſo, I pray you, and faile not till you be fully ſatiſfied, to vrge eueryevery thing to the vttermoſt.
Nymph.
You know ſir that we hauehave in our countrie, men of diuers humours, The ſeueral excepters againſt preaching.and ſundrie faſhions; ſome groſſely ignorant, and meere ſottiſh, chiefly in matters of religion; ſome prophane, ſuch as Eſau was, who care more for a portion of meate, eſteeme more of a worldly cōmoditie, then of a heauenly treaſure; ſome wiſe and ſenſible, as the world calleth wiſedome; ſome learned alſo, and ſchollers by profeſſion: now it hath bene my hap at ſome one time or other, to fall into conference with eueryevery of theſe ſorts, and as communication draweth in one thing after another, ſo to find out their ſeueral opinions: and though ſome of them be very ſimple, and to be called idle ſurmiſes, rather then grounded reaſons, yet becauſe you hauehave made me ſo kind an offer, you ſhall therefore hauehave all.
Epaph.
Be it ſo, I am well contented: and becauſe Ignorance is a mother ſin, therefore let vsus firſt heare I pray you the ignorant mans exceptions.
Nymph.
The ignorant peoples exceptions againſt preaching.One thing that I hauehave heard ſome ignorant men with vsus alleage, is, that they can ſee no reaſon why there ſhould be more vſe of preaching now, then there hath bene in former times. They hauehave liued (they ſay) ſome thirtie, ſome fortie, ſome more yeares without a ſetled miniſtery, hauing onelyonly (vnleſſe it were now or then at times) the ordinary ſeruice read among them; and all this while they felt no want of that which is now called teaching, and therefore they are minded not to eſteeme that much for the remainder of their life, without which they hauehave liued and done wel enough hitherto. How like you this ſir? is not this a profound reaſon? Is not here good Diuinitie?
Epaph.
Indéede you may well call this the ignorant mans reaſon, it is ſo groſſe, hauing in it but thrée errours, which you know is nothing to ſpeake of in ſo ſhort an allegation. Firſt of all, they wil neglect preaching now, becauſe they hauehave liued without it hitherto: as though it were wiſedome for a man in his old or middle age, to refuſe a kindneſſe offered, becauſe in his youth or childhood he had no meanes to enioy it. Had it bene a good reaſon for Paul, when Chriſt called him from heauen, to hauehave ſaid, O ſir it is now too late, I am a man that hauehave ſpent the beſt part of my time without the knowledge of thee & of thy religion, & therefore I pray thée trouble me not now, I hope to ſhift out as wel for ſo much of my life as is behind, as I hauehave done ſo this day? No man will be ſo without cōmon ſenſe, as to ſay, that Paul might iuſtly hauehave refuſed vponupon ſuch a pretence: and yet it had bin as good a reaſon as theirs. Secondly they erre in this, in that they account the time of their ignorance to hauehave bin without danger, becauſe they neuer ſaw the danger. Alas, litle do they conſider the extreme miſery of thoſe times.Iohn 12 3. Chriſt ſaith that he that walketh in the darke, namely without ye bright ſhining light of Gods holy word knowes not whither he goeth: he is euen in the valley of the ſhadow of death,Epheſ. 4.1…. a ſtranger from the life of God, walking after the courſe of this world, and after the prince that ruleth in the ayre, Epheſ. 2.2.euen the ſpirit that worketh in the children of diſobedience. A man that hath bene in a ſwound, and is awaked out of it by the paines of his friends, he will tel you how pleaſing the ſlumber therof ſéemed to his ſenſes, and at the firſt beginning to be awaked, he will ſay perhaps, You ſhould hauehave let me alone, why did you trouble me? But when he is better aduiſed, he wil thank them that brought him again, becauſe he knoweth that if he had bene let alone, it might hauehave coſt him his life. So in this caſe, a man liuing in blindneſſe and groſſe ignorance, ſéemeth to himſelfe for the preſent to be in a maruellous good ſtate, and his ſoule in as good as any mans; and when the Preacher ſhall cry vntounto him,Epheſ. 5 14. Awake thou that ſleepeſt, Ezech. 18.31.and ſtand vp from the dead: Oh thou ignorant perſon, Why wilt thou die ſaue thy ſelf from this froward generation. Like enough he wil ſay,Act 2 40. O M. Preacher, trouble me not I pray you, ſpare your ſides, I am well enough, my ſoule is in no ſuch danger: but if the Lord once open his eyes,Ezech. 18.3…. and make him a new heart and a new ſpirit, then he wil bleſſe God for him that called him, becauſe he will then perceiue, that otherwiſe he had euen runned on to his owne deſtruction. He that trauelleth by night vponupon the edge and hanging of a ſteep hil, from which if he ſhould fall he muſt needs breake his neck, goeth on without feare, becauſe in the darke he ſeeth not the daunger: but …et him be brought back at light of day, it wil make him euen quake to thinke vponupon the peril he was in, & wonder that euer he ſhould eſcape it. In like ſort, he that is in the blindneſſe of ignorance without ye word, the ſame is hourely ready to fall into the pit of hell; yet he feareth it not, becauſe he ſeeth it not: but if euer he hauehave any remorce by the light of the Goſpel ſhining in his heart, it wil terrifie him to remember his former miſery, and make his belly to tremble to conſider it: ſo that here is the ſecond errour in this ignorant obiection. Men conclude there was no danger in the dayes of blindneſſe, becauſe they ſaw no danger, whereas indeed the daunger was ſo much the greater. A third error there is yet in this exception, & that is, that they conſider not how that the refuſall of Gods mercy which is freely offered in the preaching of ye word, doth double their ſinne, and make their condemnation more iuſt by whom it is refuſed.Ioh. 5 32. If I had not come and ſpoken vntounto them, they ſhould not hauehave had ſin, (ſayth our Sauior) that is, they had not bene chargeable with this ſinne of contempt of me and of my doctrine: But now hauehave they no cloke for their ſin, now they hauehave nothing to plead for excuſe. If this were duly thought vponupon, that the neglect of the word, when the meanes of making the ſame familiar vntounto them is become common among them, did make them guilty of a greater ſin before God, men would then not dare like the deafe Adder to ſtop their cares, and to ſuffer the holy doctrine of God to fal to the ground vnregarded. Thus I hope I hauehave ſhewed the vnreaſonableneſſe of this firſt reaſon.
Nymph.
This that you hauehave ſpoken as it maketh me ſee plainly the idleneſſe o… this ignorant exception, ſo it calleth to my remembrance a notable place of ſcripture which I once heard you alleage in one of your ſermons to this or the like purpoſe: it is a part of Paul his ſpeech at Athens. The time of this ignorance (ſaith he) God lightly paſſing ouer, Act 17.10. foreign.now he admoniſheth al men eueryevery where to repent. It ſeemeth to me that this place may be applied fitly to this matter.
Epaph.
It is well remembred: for indeed that ſpéech fitteth well with this point. Paul there diſputing with the heathen that worſhipped dumbe idols, and thought the Godhead to be like gold or ſiluer, or ſtone, grauen by the art and inuention of man: leaſt they ſhould obiect noueltie vntounto him, and ſhould ſay as the Papiſts do at this day, how was it poſſible that all the world ſhould for ſo many yeares be deceiued: he telleth them that it ſéemed good vntounto God, for cauſes beſt knowne vntounto himſelfe, to permit the ignorance of ſo many thouſands of yeares, yet ſo as that time of blindneſſe being now determined, men ſhould not pleade preſcription, reckoning more of an old error thē of newly reuealed truth: but ſhould open their eares and harts to this his generall ſummons to repentāce. I thank you for minding me of this place; it ſheweth notably what a fond thing it is, not to take notice of the truth reuealed, but to preferre a long continued ignorance before it. HaueHave you any more exceptions of this nature, forged in the ſhop of ignorance? like enough you hauehave; for it is an old and a true ſaying, that error is infinite, though truth be but one. If this that you hauehave named hauehave any moe fellowes, bring them forth; I doubt not, but by the grace of Chriſt to diſcountenance them.
Nymph.
Yes ſure: when the multitude heare it taught, that the preaching of the word is a thing of that nature and neceſſarie vſe, that without it men ordinarily can not be ſaued, they crie out by and by; And what is then become of our forefathers, they had no preaching, yet they were in their times good people, honeſt, and well eſteemed in the places where they liued. If we ſhould then yeeld to this, that this preaching is with ſo reuerent a regard to be depended vponupon, we muſt needs condemne our progenitors out of whoſe loyns we are come, which to do were more then inhumanitie. I can tell you ſir, this is an argument that hath a generall approbation, and therefore I pray you looke well to it that you can anſwer it.
Epaph.
Well, as hard as it is, yet it is not ſo intricate as was Sampſons riddle,Iudg. 14 12. that in ſeuen dayes could not be interpreted, for indeed it is of no value. It is true, we are both by nature and by religion to honor the memories of our aunceſtors, and in all good things to be imitators of them; but in maters of religion we are not to hauehave an eye to them or to their times, but we muſt conſider what it is which the Lord requireth at our hands. Whether they were ſaued or no, it is not for vsus to enquire: if the Lord hauehave dealt more mercifully with vsus then he did with them, we hauehave cauſe to magnifie his holy name, to looke to our ſelues that we deſpiſe not the riches of his bountie, and to leaue them to the Lord to whom they ſtand or fall. It is a good ſaying of an auncient father to this purpoſe:Cypr. li. 2. ep. 3. If my predeceſſors (ſayth he) either by ignorance or by ſimplicitie hauehave not kept and holden that which our Lord hath taught them by his example and authority, the mercy of our Lord might pardon them. But as the good Doctor ſaith, We cannot hope for the like, hauing better meanes of inſtruction. When the outward ordinary meanes failed, Gods hand was not ſhortened, but he was able euen in the middeſt of blindneſſe to ſaue thoſe which belonged to the election of grace. As for vsus,Heb. 2.…. 2. Cor. 6.1 it ſhall not be ſafe for vsus to neglect this ſo great ſaluation, or to receiue the grace of God in vaine, fooliſhly aduenturing our ſelues vponupon the vnknowne conditiō of our forefathers. And this I hope may ſuffice to take away the edge of this fancie. It is humanitie to thinke the beſt of our forefathers, but it is diuinitie to looke carefully to our ſelues.
Nymp.
I am glad you hauehave furniſhed me with ſo ſufficient an anſwer to this exception which I hauehave bene often aſſaulted with; and indeed becauſe of the common inſtinct of nature, it ſtriketh the deeper impreſſion, and is the more hardly remoued But I thinke this that you hauehave ſaid may preuaile there where obſtinate wilfulneſſe hath not gotten the maſtery and therefore I will lay this vp as ſafely as euer Goliah his ſword was layed vp, … Sam 21 ….that I may euer hauehave it in a readineſſe for ſuch a purpoſe. But ſir there are yet more obiections of the ſame ſtampe, which I muſt entreate you alſo to cleare, that ſo you may make me a perfect ſcholler in this point.
Epaph.
Who would think it poſſible that men ſo dull and vncapable in matters which concerne their greateſt good, ſhould be abounding with arguments wherewith to pleade euen againſt their owne ſoules. But the diuell is a cunning inſtructor, and laboreth to ſtrengthen men in ignorance (becauſe it is the ſcepter of his kingdome) as much as it is poſſible. Let vsus heare therefore what the ignorant, with whom it hath bene your hap to conuerſe, hauehave yet further to alleage.
Nymphas.
They ſay that the moſt learned of you all, who are called Preachers, when you hauehave ſhewed the vttermoſt of your cunning, can ſay no more then they know already; namely, that they muſt louelove God aboue all, and their neighbours as themſelues: and ſeeing they know this well enough already, what needeth (ſay they) any more inſtruction.
Epaphras.
This is a conceipt ſcarce worthy the confuting; yet leſt my ſilence ſhould breede an opinion in you, that there is more in it then indeede there is; do but conſider of it by the like: If a man ſpeaking of huſbandrie, and hearing another to diſcourſe of the great ſkill and long experience that is requiſit to make a man a good huſband, ſhould ſay by and by, Tuſh, what talke you ſo much of ſkil and knowledge herein? Why? It is nothing but this, to plow, to ſow, and to reape: ſhould not ſuch a one deſeruedly be laughed at, and be a ſcorne to thoſe which heare him? Yes, and not without cauſe: for eueryevery man knoweth, that though this be the ſum of huſbandry, yet there are diuers particulars belonging to theſe, which are neither ſoone learned nor eaſily practiſed: ſo that he who deſireth to be a good huſband, and to profit by his labors, and to make the beſt of eueryevery thing, muſt not ſatiſfie himſelfe to know this, that there is nothing in huſbandry but to eare the land, and to reape the fruite, but he muſt learne alſo what belongeth to the right performance of theſe, otherwiſe he may erre in ſowing, play the foole in plowing, and come ſhort in reaping. And euen ſo it is in this caſe: true it is, that the ſumme of all religion conſiſteth in this, in louing God aboue all, and a mans neighbor as him ſelfe: but what then? If a man ſhall thinke by and by that he is a good Chriſtian, and knoweth enough, becauſe he apprehendeth theſe generals, the ſame is exceedingly deceiued, for there are many other branches belonging to each of theſe, which vnleſſe a man do know, he can neither louelove God as hée ought, nor his neighbour as hee ſhould: ſo that to my ſeeming, euen common reaſon is ſufficient to conuince mens ignorance herein. There is not the meaneſt profeſſion, the courſeſt trade, the plaineſt occupation, but it hath (as we ſay) a certaine myſterie in it, there are many rules belonging to it: which muſt be knowne, not in groſſe onelyonly, but euen very preciſely, before a man can in any mediocritie practiſe the duties of the ſame.
Nymphas.
It is true that you ſay, for mine owne part I confeſſe it: but yet Ignorance will replie and ſay, Will you then vrge vponupon eueryevery common man the knowledge of eueryevery point which in preaching you deliuer: that ſeemeth very vnreaſonable; neither can men that want the helpes of learning attaine vntounto it: and will not a good meaning make a ſupply for all this?
Epaphras.
How vnreaſonable it may ſéeme in mens eyes to be vrged to ſuch exact knowledge, I cannot tel: this I am ſure of, that we that are Miniſters, are charged to ſhew the people the whole coūſel of God, Act 20 27. Ier. 6.2.& not to keep a word back. If we cannot be diſpenſed with to keepe ſecret any thing, how ſhal it be tolerated in the people to neglect the knowledge of that, which we are bound by vertue of our commiſſion to deliuer? It was but an idle prayer of the Apoſtle, on the behalfe of the Coloſſians, to begge of God that they might be fulfilled with knowledge of Gods will, Col. 1.9in all wiſedome and ſpirituall vnderſtanding: or for the Philippians,Philip. 1.9 10 that they might abound in all iudgement, and diſcerne things that differ. I ſay theſe were but idle wiſhes, if ſo be that full meaſure of knowledge is not required of eueryevery Chriſtian. And if ſome certain rudiments, & as it were ſhreds of knowledge were ſufficient, the Hebrews might well hauehave complained of wrong, in that they were ſo ſharply cenſured for their being dull of hearing, Hebr. 5.11.1…and for that they ſtill after ſo much teaching needed the firſt principles of the word of God. And ſure, if it be vnreaſonable to vrge men to know ſo much, we muſt (which were blaſphemie) challenge the wiſe God as an vnneceſſary burdener of mankind, who hath reuealed ſo much. As it is curioſitie to enquire into that which God hath concealed, ſo it is vnthankfulneſſe not to take notice of whatſoeuer he hath left written for our learning. Rom. 15 … Deuter. 29.…9.The ſecret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things reuealed belong to vsus and to our children for euer, ſayth the Scripture. I confeſſe, that if a man might attaine to the age of Methuſelah who liued nine hundred ſixtie and nine yeares, G…and ſhould in that ſpace equall his diligence in ſearching the ſcripture vntounto Dauid, who made it his meditation continually, Pſalm. 11…yet many things would eſcape him, and he ſhould when he had done all, be faine to confeſſe, that the greateſt part of that which he knoweth, is not the leaſt part of that which he knoweth not: but what then? becauſe a man when he hath done beſt cannot know all, ſhall he therefore not labour to know any thing? God forbid. Ignorance by a kind of neceſſity may ſeeme to hauehave ſome excuſe, but a voluntary neglect of that which a man may know, cannot hauehave ſo much as a colour of allowance.
Nymphas.
Yet me thinkes it is hard for the common people (the greateſt part whereof cannot ſo much as reade) to attain to ſo much knowledge as you ſeeme to perſwade, eſpecially if withall they be ſuch as liue by their labour, and hauehave charge of children, how ſhall they ſpare time for ſuch occaſions?
Epaph.
Verily it is a wofull thing to conſider the dulneſſe that is amongſt men; and they do not know what they want that cannot reade (a thing which notwithſtanding of all other the parts of learning is the moſt eaſie, and as ſoone learned as to be able to play at the cards, if men were as deſirous of the one as of the other): yet howſoeuer, in this caſe of knowledge in religion men do caſt many mo perils then they need, and are like the ſlouthfull man, of whom Salomon ſpeaketh,Prouerb. 22.13 who ſaith, A lion is without, I ſhal be ſlaine in the ſtreete. Prouerbs 14.6.For knowledge is eaſie to him that will vnderſtand: Mathew 11.30and the yoke of Chriſt, it is eaſie, and his burden light: wherefore ſerueth the ſcripture but to giuegive vntounto the ſimple ſharpneſſe of wit, Prouerb 14.and to the child knowledge and diſcretiō? Pſalm. 119.130The entrance into thy words (ſaith Dauid) ſheweth light: as ſoone as a man in humilitie, and in a true deſire to know God, doeth but begin to apply himſelfe to the meanes of knowledge, he ſhall ſecretly feele ſuch a ſodaine light caſt in vponupon his vnderſtanding,Pſalme 25 14 that he ſhall be able to apprehend euen the very ſecret of the Lord, and the great myſtery of godlineſſe; 1. Timoth. 3.16 P…al 84.7. Eph… 3 19.and ſo ſhall go from ſtrength to ſtrength, vntill he be filled with all the fulneſſe of God. And we ſee by comfortable experience, with what gifts of iudgement and good vnderſtanding and ſpeech, yea and of prayer alſo, the Lord furniſheth many, who notwithſtanding hauehave wanted the helpes of good education: wherein the Lord maketh good that auncient propheſie touching the kingdome of Chriſt, that he would in it poure out his ſpirit euen vponupon ſeruants and maides, Ioel …ſo that the eyes of the blind ſhould be lightened, and the eares of the deafe opened, Iſay 35.5.6.and the dumbe mans tongue be able to ſing. 2 Cor 9.15.And thankes be vntounto God for his vnſpeakeable gift. So that it is a cauſeleſſe feare which men hauehave, who imagine the knowledge of the doctrine of ſaluation, to be a matter of that exceeding difficultie. Now for the multitude of worldly buſineſſes, the neceſſary following whereof men pleade partly as a matter priuiledging them, partly as a thing hindring them from intending theſe better occaſions: if men had learned what this is, Seeke ye firſt the kingdome of God, and his righteouſneſſe, and all theſe things ſhall be miniſtred vntounto you: Math. 16 2….or this, What ſhal it profit a man though he ſhould win the whole world, if he loſe his owne ſoule? then they wold be aſhamed either to thinke religion a hindrance to their worldly thriuing it being a furtherance rather,Prouerb 1… 22. becauſe it is the bleſſing of the Lord which maketh rich) or elſe to mind onelyonly earthly things, Phil. 3.19.ſpending all their time about that which is on the earth, Col 3.2. Prouerb. 8.18. Epheſ. 3.8and neglecting that durable riches, euen the vnſearchable riches of Chriſt. I know the buſineſſe of the world muſt be followed;… Theſſal. 3.…0 He that laboureth not, let him not eate, ſaith Paul: 1. Timoth. 5.8.and if there be any that prouideth not for his owne, and namely for them of his houſhold, he denieth the faith, and is worſe then an infidell. Yet I know too, that he who will walke circumſpectly, not as a foole, Epheſ. 5.15 16.but as a wiſe Chriſtian, muſt redeeme the time, and in the midſt of his worldly employments remember that one needfull thing, Luke 10 42.which when al other commodities become that which they are, euen nothing, Prouerb. 13.5.wil tary by him, and ſhall neuer be taken from him. Moreouer, put caſe a man be either ſo tied by the nature and quality of his calling, that he can ſpare no time (ſo as among others, day-laborers and other poorer tradeſ-men ſeeme to be) or elſe is deſtitute of meanes to further his knowledge when he is priuate and at home, yet if a man would be conſcionably carefull of profitable ſpending the Sabbaoth day, learning eueryevery ſuch day, though but one point, and caring to keepe it and to hide it in the heart, P…e 119.11 Luke 2.19.and to ponder it in the weeke following, that he may by that means make it his owne, it is incredible to a man that trieth it not, to what ſtore of ſpirituall knowledge euen a common man ſhall attaine, and what vnderſtanding he ſhal hauehave in the myſtery of Chriſt. Epheſ. 3.4.Wée hauehave a ſaying touching earthly things, that light gaines make heauy purſes: we ſhal ſurely find it true in this, he that ſhall labour to grow richer eueryevery Sabbaoth but by one point, he ſhall before he is ware of it grow to a very comfortable portion of the ſauing knowledge of Gods truth.
Nymph.
I hauehave very carefully attended to this which you hauehave ſpoken, and I praiſe God I find much comfort in it; yet there is one thing behind which I hauehave ſtill looked for, which I am bold to put you in mind of, leſt you ſhould forget it, and that is touching the good meaning which the common ſort ſo much truſt vntounto: they ſay their heart is good though their skill be ſmall, and they hope that God will accept it. I pray you ſatisfie me in this alſo, and then I ſhal be reaſonably furniſhed againſt the plea of the ignorant.
Epaph.
You do well to mind me of it, howſoeuer I was euen now of my ſelfe comming to it:Luke 8.15. An honeſt and good heart is a thing in the eyes of God much eſteemed; and it is the eſpeciall thing he craueth of vsus, to giuegive him our heart: Prouerb. 23 26.yet generally that which men call a good heart to God-ward, is nothing leſſe then that which it is called: for ſo long as a mans heart is a dull, ignorant,Ier. 17.9. vnregenerate and vnreformed heart, it is wicked aboue all things. There can be no goodneſſe in that heart where there dwelleth groſſe & blockiſh ignorance of God and of his truth:Prouerbs 1.22. Pſalme 50 17. It is no good heart which loueth fooliſhnes and hateth knowledge, and caſteth the word of God behind it. Mathew 12.34.It is no good heart which maketh not the mouth to ſpeake out of the abundance of it, 1. Pet. 3.15.and to be able to giuegive a reaſon of the hope that is in it. Rom. 10.2.There may be a zeale of God, where there is no knowledge of God; but it is but a blind zeale, and God eſteemeth it not. They which kil and perſecute Gods ſeruants, may hauehave a kind of good meaning, and may thinke that in ſo doing they do God ſeruice, Iohn 16 2.yet this cannot helpe them, ſo that men are deceiued in their good meaning: for no meaning is good, but that which is guided by knowledge: yea though the thing meant be in it owne nature good, yet if the meaner be not aſſured of the goodneſſe of it frō Gods word, his meaning is naught, & that by the the rule of Scripture, which telleth vsus,Roman. 14.23. that whatſoeuer is not of faith is ſinne.
Nymph.
I muſt needs yeeld to this that you ſay, that it is true; and yet me thinkes it is ſomthing hard:Pe… …ath. for I remember I hauehave read in a good author (whoſe iudgement I thinke you will alſo approue of) that there are many, who though they are ignorant in many things, yet they hauehave a meaning of true faith, and that which is wanting in knowledge is ſupplied in affection: this is a very comfortable ſaying, and to my ſeeming alſo it doeth ſomething fauour the conceit which men hauehave of being excuſed by their good meaning.
Epaph.
I do approue of the author you alleage, as of a worthy inſtrument in Gods Church: I agree alſo to that which you hauehave cited out of his writings: for (as he alſo ſaith) all men hauehave not that ſharpneſſe of conceit, and faſtneſſe of memorie, to be able to wade into the depth of eueryevery point, and to remember eueryevery particular.Whit de ſacra Script. Q…eſt. 2. And indeed an exact knowledge of the miſteries of religion, ſo as to be able to diſpute ſchollerly of them is not required of eueryevery common man: to which end is the ſpeech of S. Auguſtine; Auguſt. in lib. contra Epiſtol. …nd. cap. 4.It is not (ſaith he) the quickneſſe of vnderſtanding, but the ſimplicitie of beleeuing which is ſafeſt for the people: all this is true, but yet it maketh nothing for the defence of that brutiſh ignorance which men ſeeke to colour with the pretence of a good meaning: for this rule, that good affection ſupplieth the want of knowledge, holdeth onelyonly in thoſe who hauing in ſome ſmall meaſure felt the ſweetneſſe of knowledge, do labor to increaſe in it. In ſuch it is true, that the ſinceritie of the heart maketh a kind of recompence for the defect of knowledge: but where there is a ſetling of a mans ſelf vponupon the drogs of ignorance, without grieuing and ſorrowing for his owne dulneſſe, without caring & endeuoring to thriue in knowledge, there this rule hath no place, there the pretended good meaning is but ſottiſhneſſe, and that kind of ignorance maketh a man a ſtranger frō the life of God. Epheſ 4 11And therefore it is well ſaid of a learned man, that whereas God forgiueth manifold ignorances in his children,Melan…h…n yet he requireth that we be teachable, and not hardned in our owne dulneſſe and ſluggiſhneſſe.
Nymphas.
You hauehave fully ſatisfied me touching this doubt: there is onelyonly one thing more behind, which ignorance pretendeth, and it is common in many mens mouthes: let them (ſay they) preach and we will pray: they hope their deuotion in praying will do them more good then all your preaching.
Epaph.
It is a world to ſée the cunning of the diuell, who goeth about to ouerthrow one holy dutie by another, and to oppoſe thoſe things which ought to go as it were hand in hand together. But what thing is there ſo ſenſleſſe, whereto ignorance in the Scripture may not be perſwaded? It is our Engliſh prouerbe, The blind eateth many a flie: and ſo indeede the ignorant in the booke of God embrace many groſſe and ridiculous abſurdities: for if men knew what the Scripture ſaith in this caſe, they would neuer caſt out ſuch an idle ſpeech: Salomon ſaith,Prouerb. 28 9. He that turneth away his eare from hearing the law, euen his prayer ſhall be abominable. What thinke you ſhall become of their prayers then who reſolue not to affoord the vſe of their eares vntounto Gods word? Do they not make a faire hand, when by their contempt of preaching they bring a curſe vponupon their praying? Adde hitherto that Paul ſayth expreſly,Rom. 10.14. that as men cannot call on him in whom they hauehave not beleeued, ſo neither can they beleeue without hearing, nor heare without a Preacher. Can men credite Paul in this, and yet thinke to pray well without the helpe of preaching? Surely no. How can men pray aright, without knowledge of their owne wants, without the apprehenſion of the promiſes of God, vponupon which to build their aſſurance to be heard? and how can they attaine to either of theſe ordinarily, but by the preaching, expounding, opening & applying of Gods word? That which men commonly call praying, is but a lip-labor, conſiſting in the recitall of a few words, the ſenſe & meaning whereof is not vnderſtood, and it is méere babling in the eares of God; it may be well called the ſacrifice of fooles: Eccleſ. 4.17.and it may truly be ſaid of ſuch blind deuotions and tongue-prayers, which the heart doeth not conceiue, as it was ſayd of the hypocriticall ceremoniouſneſſe of the Iewes;Iſa 1.14. The ſoule of the Lord hateth them, they are a burden vntounto him, he is wearie to beare them. I thinke I hauehave ſufficiently diſcouered the weakneſſe of this ſilly obiection.
Nymph.
I praiſe God I do alſo ſee the vanitie of it; and I hope I for my part ſhall learne ſo to eſteeme of preaching, as that I ſhall alſo reuerence that good meanes which God hath in his wiſdome ordained for my help in the performance of that holy dutie, that ſo by often hearing I may learne to pray, and by praying I may make good vſe of the things I heare. Well ſir, now that you hauehave armed me againſt the common pretences of the ignorant ſort, whereby they make themſelues beleeue, or rather are made beleeue by the diuell, that it is no daunger to contemne preaching. I muſt challenge your promiſe, and craue your helpe alſo touching another ſort of men, who as they are ignorant in the matters of God, ſo are they come to a higher degree of hardneſſe, and hauehave euen almoſt taken vp their ſeate in the chaire of ſcorners, Pſal. 1.1.and do not onelyonly not regard preaching (which is the fault of thoſe of whom I hauehave ſpoken hitherto) but ſcoffe at it, and endeuour by lading it with ſundry reproaches altogether to diſgrace it.
Epaph.
I am as willing to performe my promiſe as I was to make it; and yet I know that in regard of theſe prophane ones themſelues, this will be but a thankleſſe peece of ſeruice:Prouerb. 15 …2. for a ſcorner loueth not him that rebuketh him, neither will he go vntounto the wiſe. Therefore I wil do it rather in deſire to ſatiſfie you, then in any great hope I hauehave to reclaime them.
Nymph.
Indeed I hauehave ſometimes caſt in a word according to my skill, when I hauehave bene in the companie of ſuch; and they hauehave for the moſt part ſtill ſhewed themſelues like the foole, Prouerb. 14.9.who maketh a mocke of ſin, Prouerb. 10.23to whom it is euen a paſtime to do wickedly: yet it is good to be able ſometimes to anſwer them according to their fooliſhneſſe, Prouerbs 26.5leaſt they ſhould be wiſe in their owne conceit. Wel then, The obiections of prophane men againſt preaching.to come to the matter without circumſtance, the exceptions of profane men againſt preaching are diuers, ſome againſt the perſons of the preachers, ſome againſt the hearers, ſome otherwiſe, as you ſhal vnderſtand in ſeueral. Firſt, touching you that are the preachers, it is common in their mouthes: Who be worſe then they? If there be any couetouſnes, or pride, or ambition, & the like, where ſhal you find it but in the Clergie? When they are in the pulpit, they muſt needs ſay ſomewhat; and therfore, though when they be there, they be very hote and eager againſt vice, yet in their owne courſes they are as bad or worſe then other men. This is one exception.
Epaph.
The anſwer to this wretched exceptiō (not for the waight of argument yt it carieth, but for the variety of leudnes & error which is in it) wil diuide it ſelf into many particulars. Firſt of all therefore, touching them that obiect this,M. Greenham. they are very properly by a learned man of our times compared to foule gameſters, who when they hauehave loſt all at the cards, and hauehave the laſt dealing in their hands, and perceiue that not likely to proue to their mind, riſe vp in a chafe and fling downe all, and ſay there hath bene foule play playd, when indéed the fault is chiefly in themſelues: ſo many being naught them ſelues, & being (as the Apoſtle ſpeaketh) damned by their owne conſciences, T…. 3.11.when they hauehave no other ſhift, crie out vponupon Preachers, thereby to cloke their owne iniquity: therein not much vnlike to him that in a throng at a fair or market, bids men beware of the Cut-purſe, that he in the meane time (being a man of ye trade) may practiſe his diuing into mens pockets with the leſſe ſuſpicion. And marke it when you will, you ſhall neuer find them any other then méere ſenſual men, yea and for the moſt part openly noted for ſome one bad courſe or other, of drunkenneſſe, oppreſſion, vſury, couetouſnes, adultery, or the like, that make this obiection. Secondly, (becauſe there may be truth in an obiection, though there be little truth or honeſtie in him that maketh it) know this therefore for the ſubſtance of this cauill, that put caſe it were ſo, (which thankes be to God is not ſo) that all Preachers did confute their owne ſermons with their euill life, and had Eſaus hands with Iacobs voice, and were like a file which ſmootheth other thinges, it ſelfe remayning rough: yet this could make nothing againſt preaching. For is Phyſicke naught, becauſe many Phyſitians perhappes liue contrary to their owne rules of phiſicke? Or is law damnable, becauſe ſome profeſſors thereof do liue lawleſſe, giuing rules of equity to others, themſelues keeping none but ill rule? No man wil be ſo without ſenſe to affirme it: why thē? ſhal the courſe of preaching be cōdemned, for the ſuppoſed miſdemeanor of them which preach? God forbid. Is any mā ſo vnwiſe as to diſobey a warrant comming apparently frō a man of authority, becauſe the Conſtable or Tithingman is a naughty fellow that bringeth it? Who then but either a foole or a froward hart wil tread the holy doctrine of God vnderunder his feete, becauſe he is a man of no good cariage that deliuereth the ſame? Thirdly, men are to conſider this alſo, that all are not Miniſters which are ſo called, neither all true Preachers come frō God that ſtand vp in ye pulpit: for in theſe corrupt times many are crept into the Church of God by the window, whom God did neuer ſet apart to that holy ſeruice:S…ta ſ…ct… … eſt duplex …. now it is vnpoſſible but that ſuch as theſe (though they may a long time couer their double iniquity vnderunder a diſſembled ſanctitie) yet at laſt breake out into extremities. Now it is againſt common reaſon to turne their miſcariage into the generall diſgrace of all honeſt Miniſters. There be many counterfeit dog-leaches and pretenced Surgions, that hauing gotten a litle Rubarbe or Balſamum, and ſome few words of art, run about the country and beguile the people, and cozen them of their mony, purging their purſes and ſcouring their bags vnderunder colour of clenſing their bodies & ſearching their ſores. Shal we ſay therefore that al Phiſitions though they be neuer ſo well learned, neuer ſo well experienced, neuer ſo conſcionable and wary in their courſes of adminiſtring, are cozeners, and that it were pittie but the countrey were rid of them all? it were an indignitie once to imagine it. There is no profeſſion, but it hath as it were a certaine ſcumme, and there are ſome that make ſhew of it, that are altogether vnworthy of it. Shall the vileneſſe & vnbeſeeming cariage of thoſe that are but the refue, and as I may ſo ſpeake the taile of an honeſt profeſſion, be caſt into the face of all the reſt that belong vntounto it? Reaſon it ſelfe ſayth it is vnméete. And men would ſoone yéeld to this, were it not that the diuell hath taught them to be wiſe in any thing, ſauing in religion, to fauor any profeſſion ſauing that of the miniſtery. Men are herein like vntounto many Lawyers, who if you put them a caſe, without naming the parties, will tell you truly what is law: but whē they vnderſtand who they be whō the matter concerneth, then they change their opinion, and the law is altered. So in the world, aſk you any man of cōmon vnderſtanding this queſtiō, whether it be meet that all of a trade or company ſhould be chalenged, becauſe ſome ſuch or ſuch are worthy to be puniſhed; he will tell you there is no reaſon for it: but come to particulars touching preachers, thē he is of another mind, he wil be ready to ſay yt al Chriſts diſciples were naught becauſe Iudas was a diuel: Iohn 6.70.& becauſe he (it may be) knoweth ſome two or 3. ſir Iohns or ſome other (perhaps of better note in ye eyes of the world, but yet ſcarcely worthy of their places) to be climing with Diotrephes, Iohn 9 2. Timoth 4.10.or embracing this preſent world with Demas, or carying themſelues inſolently with Paſhur, Ierem. 20.1.2.or otherwiſe kéeping bad rule with him, who imagining that his maſter doth defer his coming, Luke 12.45.begins to ſmite the ſeruants and the maidens, and to eate and drinke and to be drunken: by and by he concludeth, that they are all naught, and voweth that he will neuer beléeue any of them, for all their ſhewes of holineſſe. Fourthly, for the further cleering of this point, this is alſo to be conſidered, that Miniſters and Preachers do not thinke themſelues freed from common infirmities, or endued with ſome greater power or larger priuiledge againſt ſin, then others: & therefore eueryevery ſlip is not by & by to be taken hold of (as the maner is) and to be turned to the blemiſhing of a whole profeſſion. He is ſaid to be a man of vpright conuerſation, not who ſlippeth neuer, (for who is he that can vnderſtand his faults? Pſal. 19.125) but he who by his ſeldome ſlips, and by his not continuing in any one knowne euill, ſheweth himſelfe to be a man that vnfainedly deſireth to hauehave his cariage ſuch, as becometh the Goſpel of Chriſt. Laſtly,Phil. 1.27. mark this alſo & you ſhal find it true, thoſe who are euer harping vponupon this ſtring, touching ye liues of preachers, let thē be vrged to particulars, you ſhal perceiue yt either their euill ſpeaking is occaſioned by ſuch kind of Miniſters as I before named, or elſe if they hauehave any exception againſt any of the better and painfuller ſort, it is ſuch, which if it be well examined and throughly looked into, will be found rather to ſauor of malice in the ſpeaker, then to argue any great error in the accuſed. I told you I ſhould be long in this point, but now I hauehave done, vnleſſe you hauehave ought further to vrge therein.
Nymph.
The moſt that I hauehave to ſay, is, that men of the world that ſhall heare this Plea of yours, will ſtraightway ſay, that you can ſpeake well for your ſelues, and that though you aggrauate other mens ſins vponupon occaſions, yet you can ſalue vp matters that concerne your ſelues, and helpe to couer your owne infirmities.
Epaph.
The diuell doth well anſwer his name; for there is nothing can be ſo wel ſpoken, but he and his can cauil at it: for mine owne part, I ſtriue with my ſelf to ſpeake vnpartially. The profeſſion I muſt louelove, becauſe God hath called me vntounto it; yet were I not of it, God hath taught me to honor it,Romanes 10.15 becauſe the feet of them are beautifull which bring glad tidings of peace. And howſoeuer many do ſo far exalt themſelues in their birth, in their riches, in their wiſedome, in their perſonage and bloud, that they think it a diſparagement vntounto them to conſecrate all their life to the miniſterie of the Goſpell: yet as Chriſt himſelfe diſdained not the title of a Miniſter, Romanes 8.ſo among all the titles of kingdomes and countries, this was to that great King the moſt honorable, Solomon the Preacher. I muſt therefore as a Miniſter, but eſpecially as a Chriſtian, endeuor to maintaine the credit of the miniſtery. And yet I am not ſo caried away with a humor of magnifying the profeſſion, but that I do ſee and bemone both mine and other mens imperfections. I know, that though it be true, that we are many times ſlaundered by ſoule mouthes, yet we often faile, and giuegive great offence euen vntounto thoſe that feare God, who depending vponupon vsus, 1. Pet. 5….are either grieued in heart, or (which is worſe) grieuouſly miſ-led, by our want of watchfulneſſe ouer our ſelues. And I heartily beg of God ſo to ſtabliſh vsus in eueryevery word and good work, 2. Th 2.17. 1. Timoth 4. 1…that while we liue we may be an example to them that beleeue: and when we hauehave finiſhed our courſe, the people may hauehave cauſe to remēber vsus, Hebr. 3.17.& to follow our faith, conſidering what hath bin the end of our conuerſation.
Nymph.
My heart ſaith Amen vntounto your good praier: and God forgiue vsus our backwardnes in that we make ſo ſeldom mentiō of you which are our Miniſters in our prayers vntounto him. But now to the next exceptiō which is againſt the hearers; the common ſaying is, that there are none vſually ſo bad as theſe Puritanes (for ſo in their ignorance, not knowing truly what a Puritane is, and in their malice ſeeking to diſgrace honeſt men, they terme eueryevery mā that makes conſcience of hearing the word, for the building of himſelf in holy faith) they are nothing but a pack of hypocrites, Iude 20.men that are not to be truſted for all their faire ſhewes, holy horſes, and the like names of diſgrace, which hell can inuent: and out of this puddle of reprochfull ſpeeches againſt the louers of preaching, they gather vp filth to caſt into the face of preaching it ſelfe.
Epaph.
This exception, and that which went next before, are ſo wel like, yt they do eaſily appéere to hauehave had one father, euen the diuel, who was a ſlanderer from the beginning: but bleſſed be God that it is no matter of any great difficultie to diſcouer,Reuel 2 24. euen the deepeneſſe of Satan to be meere ſimplicitie. Firſt then, for this touching the hypocriſie of our hearers, it is but a meere ſlander; for (to the glory of God be it ſpokē) there are many of thoſe that reuerence this ſo much contemned courſe of preaching, who hauehave not onelyonly a ſhew of godlineſſe, Tit. 3.… Tit. 2 10.but do alſo feele the power thereof; and are careful, as they beleeue in God, ſo to ſhew forth good works; ſo that their liues do adorne the doctrine of God our Sauior, yea and (which is the cauſe of ye ſo great malice of the vngodly) euē reproue the leudnes of the irreligious. Epheſ. 5.11.Secondly, ſuppoſe it to be ſo (as it may well, hypocrites mingling themſelues with the ſoundeſt Chriſtians) that ſome of thoſe which cary a face of holineſſe and zeale, & louelove to the word,Epheſ 5 11. do notwithſtanding hold fellowſhip with the vnfruitfull workes of darkneſſe, liuing after the luſts of men, 1. Pet. 4 2.3.and running with the wicked to the ſame exceſſe of riot; yet who is able to ſay that euer they receiued any encoragemēt by preaching ſo to do? Hath that taught them any ſuch matter, and not rather the cleane contrary? Let malice ſpeake, if it be not conſtrained for very ſhame to kéep ſilence. Doth the preacher perſwade any man to be an vſurer, an oppreſſor, a hard dealer, a drunkard, a whoremaſter, or the like? Nay it is well knowne, that it teſtifieth to one & other,1. Theſſal. 4.16. that the Lord is auenger of al ſuch things & that for them his wrath commeth vponupon the children of diſobedience. Epheſ 5 6.Theſe two things, namely the falſhood of the exception, and the bad conſequence of it, if it were true, may ſtop their mouthes which vſe it: but you told me (as I remember) that there be ſundry arguments of this kind. I pray you let vsus heare them: no doubt you ſhal ſee them all when they are arraigned and brought to receiue their trial at the Tribunall ſeat of Gods word, to be condemned for lying vanities, and to be no more able to ſtand before it,1. Sam. 5.…4. thā the Philiſtins Dagon could keepe his ſhrine (though no doubt he was faſt nailed to it) when the arke of Iehouah came in place.