Answer to the Devilish Detection of the Bishop of Winchester, Treatise · Part 4
❧ The vtteringe of the popeyſhe Sophiſmes.
BVt to returne to your wordes, and to cōſider how you of this popeiſh churche wolde captiue our wittes aboute this ſacramēt: thus you ſay and writ.
Ther is in the ſacrament of the aulter non other ſubſtaunce, but the ſubſtaunce of the Wincheſters wordes.bodie and bloude of our ſauiour Chriſt, and yet remaynethe the forme and accidentes of breade and wyne, not altered by this miracle from knowelege of the ſenſes, wherewithe they were before knowne, and alſo by god his ſufferaunce, ſubiectes to the paſſibilitie that they were in before.
Oh when will you wax… aſhamed: The The anſweremouſe may eate yt (as you ſay your ſelfe) … yet it muſt be the ſelf ſame ſubſta…nce of the body of Chriſt, wer it not for ſhame to bable longe in this matter: I wolde bringe in the ſcriptures that proue all them to hauehave euerlaſtinge lyfe, that eate his fleſhe and drincke his bloud, But go to, I wil ſtope your monthe withe your owne madnes. Pope Victor the thyrd was poyſoned in this ſacrament. and yet muſt it be the bodie of Chriſt, which can bringe nothinge but helthe and life. The Emperour Hēry the ſeuenth was poyſoned by a Dominik frier, named Barnardinus de The ſacramēt maye be poyſone.monte policiano, in receyuinge the ſacramēt and yet may it be non other ſubſtaunce but the bodie and blo…de of our ſauiour Chriſte God and man, wher yf he had ben man they had poyſoned hym firſte, but yf he had bene God he woulde firſt hauehave eſpied theyr poyſon by cauſe he can not be deceyued, and bycauſe he can not deceyue, he would not hauehave poiſoned the Emperour, who miſtruſtid no thinge. But let them paſſe, they be the learnynge and practiſes of your churche. You goo on ſtill with the ſame Sophiſtrie of the forme and accidentes of bread and wyne. Alwaye ſynginge one ſonge, that with often reherſall, you maye bringe it into credence. If you preache this forme, theſe accidentes, … this paſſibilitie, to the pore people: they may wel wonder at your high learnyng, but thei can knowe litle what you meane. Theſe thinges I hauehave ſomwhat touchide, and ſhall d… more here after. You ſay that theſe accidētes are not altered vntounto the ſenſes but are ſubiect to the ſame paſſibilitie. I pray you what ſophiſtrie hath taught you, that accidentes are become ſubiectes of paſſibilitie? If euer you learned Logike or philoſophi: you know that the ſubiect to paſſibilitie muſt neades bee a ſubſtaūce. Wherfor, ſeyng you wil hauehave ſuch paſſibilitie, ſuche chaunges, both corruptiō of the cake, and generation o… anewe bodie: you muſt cōfeſſe ſome other ſubſtāce in thes chaū ges that ſuſtaynethe the accidentes after the Accidentes muſte hauehave ſubiectes.chāge, for the infallible rule of Logike is this Ther is no accident without his ſubiect & periculiar ſubſtance. And cōſequētly, if you wil wade in theſe dark termes of ſophiſtrie▪ you ſhalbe cōpelled to graunt an other ſubſtance (which ſuſtayneth the accidētes) byſides the bodie and bloude of Chriſt. And ſeyng that Godhath created none other ſubſtāce, which hath theſe peculiar qualities, that we feele, ſmel, ſe and taſt ſtil to remain, but onli bread and wyne: we muſt nedes by the properties bi god onli attributed to theſe creatures, conclud againſt you? that here be the two ſubſtā tes and creatures of breade and wyne, vntounto whome God did in theyr creation, attribute and gyue theſe qualities, theſe accidentes, theſe ſelfe ſame properties, the ſelfe ſame forme and ſhape that we ſe doth ſtil remayne vuchainged, vnderunder your fingers and in your mouthes. As for your holi entralies: I know not what paſſibilitie thei ſuffer there. In this place of your booke, I muſte pas ouer with ſcilence certayne of your wordes as are theſe
The creatour of al is preſēt, the ſubſtaūce of the bodie and bloude is receyued: vnderunder Wincheſters wordes.accidentes and the true feaſte and feadinge is in the maſſe.
For this your aſſerſion, I demaunde ſome The anſwer.ſcripture wherbi you may declare it to be of Chriſte. And for the later parte therof: I vtterly denie that in your maſſe is any …uche feaſt or feading: for it is but a gaping vponupon ſhadowes and dombe cerimoneis. Agayne, wher the Apoſtles cal it the breking of bread you cal it the breaking of accidentes, or of the hoſte for you ar fa… to ſheft your termis for ſhame, bycauſe neuer man yet coulde handle an accedent, nor breake it handſomly, excepte it had a bodi or a ſubiect. As for you, I trow you be Iuglars, for you will hauehave the bodie of Chriſt ther preſēt, you wil handle it, make it hop aboute your chalice, teare it in ij. or iii. pieces, but yet you wil not breake it, for you ſay it is impaſſible and can not be broken, nor can ſuffer any violence. But I ſhall tell you If you were not playne Iuglars and coniurers, we would ſwere (ſo many of vsus as ſtād by you) that you do breake the ſame thinge that you handle. …ou ſwere nay by the holie maſſe, for you break (you ſaie) but a few accidentes, vnderunder whiche the bodie lurke the, and that the ſame precious bodi is after in eche of the partes wholy, and whole Chriſt in the peces The iuglers are not ſo daungerouſe.broken withoute encreaſe of nombre, you will not gyue an a…e leaue to tel, one, two thre, as Inglers wyll, I am aſhamed that I hauehave occaſion thus to wr…. But …alde propoſitions, muſt hauehave balde ſolutions.
¶ And now (ſay you) men aſh how a mouſe Wincheſters wordes.can eate God: And how can God corrupt & waxe moulde: howe can god be broken in pieces,
We demaunde the ſame queſtions ſtill, & The anſwer.warne you that geue the occaſiion of ſuche queſtions to repent you. For as Bell in Babilon and all the other Idoles were by the wrathe of God deſtroyed: ſo ſhall you with your falſe god, be conſumed, excuſe the mattier wythe accidentes as longe as you liſte And this cauſeth vsus to ſpeake of your Idole as Baruche the prophet did. But you make a godly anſwere or twayne.
Beleue (ſaye you) that a mouſe can not deuour Wincheſters wordes.god, beleue that god can not corrupt Beleue that god can not be broken. Al this do we beleue, and therfore▪ we cōcl… that this your cake is no God. And where you adde yet one other precepte, and bed, vsus belieue, that Chriſt god and mā is naturally preſent in the ſacramēt of the aultare: if you were a right biſhop of Chriſt, you would be A right byſhop wyll not belie Chriſt.aſhamed to belie your maiſter, for he ſaith in no place of the ſcripture, that he is naturally preſent. Be ware therfore for you maye not adde vntounto the wordes of Chriſt: leſt he do ad and encreaſe your plages. Liars, worſhy ppars of Idoles, ſleiars of mē, ſorcerers and dogges are iudged without the gates of the newe Ieruſalē. But you hauehave a cōmone refuge, the church (you ſaie) ſaith it. And when you wil bite vsus, thā the deuil ſaieth it. But it is no newe or ſtraing thinge to heare this of your mouth, ſeing that the ſam your mother holie churche: multiplieth lyke language againſt …ure maiſter Chriſt. He is mad (ſaied the phariſeis) he hath the greate diuel Belzebub. And by the prince of diuels, caſteth he Marc. iii.forth deuels (ſaide the Scribes) Iufine, they al agred that he had a wicked ſpirite. Thus can you not gofrō your nature, and we muſt nedes be like oure maiſter in ſufferinge your reproch Then (vpō other mēs reaſōing with you, you procede thus.
¶ If heare be nothing but this bodie: thē either Wincheſters wordes.it corrupteth, or elſe whē goeth it awaie: or wher hauehave you ſcripture to declare the going away of Chriſt frome thys hoſte.
This cā you not anſwer, and therfore are you faine to dal…ie in wordes. But I ſhal anſwere The anſwer.for you. He renneth awaie whē he ſpieth the mouſe cōming, and al the ſtrength of your God is loſte, whā he once begineth to mould, for it is no more able marchaunte or mans meat, after it is mouled and corrupted Than ſpeake you grauely, acknowledginge your ignoraunce: ſayeinge.
Shal the true faith periſh, becauſe I or ſuch Wincheſters wordes.other can not anſwer thi ſophiſtical reaſone:
We anſwere, that you blynde biſhoppes The anſwre.ought to thruſte nothing with ſo greate violence of ſworde and fire (into your churches but that you can fulli geue anſwere vntounto, by the word of God. For if you do not bringe i. Iohn. ii.this doctrine in all your leſſones: we are cō maūded not to receiue thē, nor to ſaie a…e vntounto thē, leſt we be partetakers of your il workes. For the ſcripture of god is able to teach to reproue, to correcte and enſtructe in rightuouſnes: that the mā of god maie be perfect & redi to eueri good worke. And you biſhops are cōmaūded whā you teach: that you teach i. Timo. iii.the word of god▪ yea chriſtwold ſaie nothing but that which he had hard of his father.
Some ſcripture in dede you bring for your purpoſe (and you hauehave it in Paule) that i. Corh. ii.mens wordes do not perſwade our fayeth, Whyche ſayinge maketh ſo cleare againſt you, that nothing can be more euidēt.
For you go about to eſtabliſhe a fayeth, with naturall, reall, accidentes, quantities, qualities, and ſuch philoſophie termes, takē forth of the wyſdome of the ſubtile boke of the greke ſophiſtes, whiche had much diſputed wyth Paule and were highly eſtemed in Corhinth. And therefore (ſayeth he▪ I do not come in ſuch high and darcke termes of wiſdome. Paule a…o…h not theſe termes.No I do iudge my ſelfe to knowe nothinge but Ieſu Chriſt, and hym crucified. You might and wold hauehave anſwred (I dout not) that you dyd knowe him naturallye in the bread and the chalice… if your generacion had thē ben ſpronge vp. And thinke you this gear had not ben …ete for Paul to preach, if it had ben ſo neceſſarie as you make it: But Paull preached ſuch wiſdome as none of the wiſe of thys world knoweth. For if they had they woulde neuer hauehave crucified the Lorde of glorie, neither woulde you perſecute hym ſtill in hys mēbres. He ſpake wordes that he learned not of mans wiſedome, but ſuche as the holie ſpirit teacheth, ſo that he cōpareth ſpiritual thinges vntounto ſpiritual thinges, & not … you do heape vp fleſh and carnal doctrin …nto the ſpirite, makinge the bodilie eatinge and the ſpirituall, to be all one thynge heare you accuſe vsus of our beliefe, to bringe vsus into ſlaunder, as though we were warueringe and vnſtable. But what our beliefe is in god we hauehave alredie ſhewed. And whether our religiō be wauering or no, God ſhal iudge. Our religion is grounded on the worde of God, that can not ſtacker nor chaunge. And wherther biſhopes, or elſe wee pore abiectes By the workes you ſhall knowe them.do liue as ther were no God (whiche thinge you laie to our charge) all the worlde maye iudge As for Auguſtine and Solomone, for ſercheinge the maieſtie of God: are nothing for your purpoſe. For we ſeke out your vile Idole as the prophetes hauehave done in their time. And to that thinge whiche is more vile thē mā, we maye not loute vntounto becauſe god hath ſet vsus in erth to beare hys ſēblauce, and …o be maiſters and Lordes ouer al his creatures, and obeie him and his cōmaundemētes.
Shoulde Moiſes hauehave ſuffered the calfe to hauehave remayned ſtyll becauſe Iſraell called it theyre God, that brought them out of Egypt, as you call thys your maker whych was made but the laſte daye.
Was it not lawfull for Daniel to breake bell in pieces becauſe the Babilonians … led it a God, and to deſtroie the dragō w… they compted the liueing God: Thus maye the Idolatrouſe prieſtes of all ages, ſtoppe the mouthes of the prophetes, ſaying as you done. Beware that ye ſearche nothinge of God: leaſt thou be oppreſſed with his glorie. But alwayes at hys tyme appointed, by the ſpirite that can not be reſiſted, God ſtereth vp his veſſelles, who knowe that the Idoles (whom you call goddes) are nothinge and that ther is but one euer liueinge God: by whome we liue and are moued, and hauehave our being, without the knowledge of whom we can not liue vnleſſe we wil be worſſe thē He that knoweth not God is wor… then a beaſtebeaſtes, altogether careleſſe of his benifitesſo plentuouſelye ſet forth in the wonderfull workemanſhippe and creacion of the worlde wherin his euerlaſtinge powre and godhead is ſo plaine, that all men are wythout excuſe (as Paule faieth) that wil not ſe it, be thanke full for it, and glorifie him as God, but deceiued by their own thoughtes, ſticking to their owne wyſdome, whyche is uerie foleiſhe, do chaunge the glorie▪ of the immortal God, to the mortall and corruptible creature. And though Auguſtine (ſpeakeinge of the trinite) do did vsus remēbre our owne weakneſſe, and though Solomon ſaie, that who ſo ſhercheth the maieſtie, ſhal bee oppreſſed of the glory… yet ought we not therby to be driuen to the dulueſſe of aſſes and daweiſhe doteage of Idiotes, ſo that if any profitable thing be propouned, we ſhould not regard it, if any holie thing be reueiled and diſcloſed, we ſhould diſpiſe it. If the father of life do cōmunicat and ſhewe any thing, that we ſhoulde rather ren to the darckeneſſe, then to the light which he publiſheth at his time appointed. You are verie fond therfore, if you reaſone thus. Thou maiſt not ſerch ſuche thinges as paſſe mans capacitie? therfore thou mayſte not meddle with the ſacramētes that we prieſtes do miniſter. You muſt firſt proue that the ſacramē tes which were inſtituted for the knowledge of mā to enſtructe hym in high myſteries: be impoſſible for mā to cōprehende, wherin you ſhal adioyne and cōpel to gether. ii. cōtraries that is to ſaye, to make that impoſſible to be knowne which Chriſt cōmaunded al mē not onelyonly to know, but alſo to do the ſame▪ in his All mē muſt knowe the ſacraments.remēbraunce. But this is the iugling of thē that wil blinde their ſcholars, to binde thē to be beliue whatſoeuer thei ſhal heare thē babble. And if any mā aſke thē a reaſone of their ſaieinges: thei will ſtop their mouthes with ſo it is, & thus it is, but we know not howe. Theſe are high miſteries, they are not to be ſerched, but it is ynough for the to beleue as our holy father of Rome and mother holi… church hath beleued theſe thouſandes yer… If thou aſke ſtil, howe can this be▪ thou ſhal… be called an heretik a Caparnaite, & yet doth Chriſte (oure ſauiour and good ſchole mayſter (byd vsus ſearche the ſcriptures, for they This ſhal be our ſchalemaiſter ſtyll.beare witneſſe of hym and hys doctrine. By ſearcheinge the ſcriptures: oure faith is eſtaſhed, and oure knoweledge encreaſed in all ſuch ſacramēts as are geuen for the exerciſe of our …ayeth, and cōfeſſion of the ſame. For thys were to open a lye to report any man to …fect in the chriſtian faith, & yet the ſame …weth not what is done in the chiefe ſacramēt…s and ceremonies of Chriſtes religion. For ſeing that the ſacramentes are ſet vp for our learning, as thinges wherby we may be led as it wer by …he hand and ſenſibly, from thinges ſenſible, vntounto thinges that are inſenſible, & can not be comprehended by the powr of the ſenſes. How can our mindes be ſtirred vp by ſuch thinges as ar and muſt be hid and vnknowne vntounto vsus? Yea howe can it be vnknowne that is done in the ſacramentes ſeinge that we our ſelues bring the ſubſtaunce of the ſacramentes. We make the prayers in the ſacramentes & Chriſt, the authour of the ſacramentes, hath taught vsus what they do meane and ſignifie.
Agayne, you bringe for your purpoſſe againſt vsus▪ the ſayng of Eccleſiaſticus. Serch not thinges that thou canſte not reache, and ſuche as be aboue thy ſtrength. But what ſo euer God cōmaundeth to do, thynke on thē euer, and in many of God hys worckes, be not ouer curious.
Verily, we knowe not that your Idole All the workes of God be good.hath any worcke of God in it, as Baruch ſayeth. As for our ſtrength and capacitie, firſte the ſpirite and the ſpiritual cōpareinge of the ſcriptures and ſpiritual thynges: do teach vsus that your cake is not God. Then the mouſe and muldynge, do teſtifie vntounto reaſone and ſenſes euen the ſame thinge. So that nowe, our talke is about avile creature, whom you cal the creatoure of al, the moſt weake Idole that euer was named in the worlde, whome you call God and man. In compariſon ther fore, of our liueing God and ſauiour Chriſt Ieſu: we abhorre and deteſte, what ſo euer you name God vponupon earth. And therein do we folowe the firſt commaundemēt, which is that we ſhall hauehave none other God, vponupon erth, but the Lorde, that liueinge God, whoe appeared neuer in any ſimilitude or Image: becauſe the fonde Braine of mā ſhould worſhip him in no ſuch Image, & ſo deceiued, be driuen frō the true worſhiping in the ſpirite And for that cauſe doeth he in the ſecond cō maundement geue greate charge, that man make no maner of Image, ſimilitude or likeneſſe of any thinge in heauen erth or the ſeas, and that in no wyſe he fall downe and Deut. vi.worſhipe them, beinge deceiued by the vanitie of hys mynde. Than if this beare any ſimilitude or likeneſſe of anye earthly thinge: how dareſte thou worſhip it, ſeing that thou art cōma…ded by the mouth of god (the lord thi god) that thou worſhip, & ſerue him oneli
As for captiueing our ſēſes, which you labour ſo ſore about, knowe it for certētie, that we knowe our ſelues to hauehave ben far to long captiues vnderunder the whore of Babilon your mother of Rome, the heade ſpring of Idolatri. … that is …e… be… of …u …e wyſeAnd now we thanke our almightie & euer liueing God, for our deliueraunce, & wil no longer be led with tradiciōs and doctrines of …ē, which hauehave the outward ſimilitud of wiſdome, by ſuperſticious humblinges our ſelues to thē that cauſe vsus to ſhote at a wronge marke, by an humblenes & holines as it wer of Angelles, in the thinges thei ſe not being pu…fed vp (without cauſe) through their own fleſhly mindes, not haueing the head wherof the whole bodie bi ioincies and cōplings (receiueth nouriſhemēt and is …it together and encreſeth with the ēcreaſing that cōith of god
Of this kinde is al your doctrine, becauſe it is not grounded on the worde of God. I meane vayne ſuperſtition and blynde holynes. Euē very belyed and miſnamed knowledge, as thys is whiche foloweth cōcerning Iudas and the wicked. For you ſaye.
Iudas and euyll men, hauing the Deuyll Wincheſters wordes.in them, hauehave yet receyued into their bodies, the hoſte conſecrate, wherein was the bodie of Chriſte God and man.
Nowe muſt we of neceſſitie demaunde of The anſwer.you, what felowſhippe there coulde be of lyghte and darknes, lyfe and death, Chriſte and Belzabub, God and the Deuyll. Scripture teacheth vsus, that the wycked hauehave the Deuyll dwellyng in them, and the faythful hauehave Chriſte and the ſpirite of Chriſte dwellyng in them. But howe Chriſt and the Deuyl can dwell together: I am ryght ſure you can not declare. The good ſpirite departed from Saule, and the wycked dyd entre into hym. Likewyſe the Deuyll poſſeſſed Iudas wholy when he ranne buſily about his miſchiefe, for God departed from him immediatly after the ſoppe was gyuen hym. We muſte therfore at al tymes make our bodies temples of the holy go…te, and oure membres the weapons of ryghtuouſnes, or els are we a dwelling place for the Deuyl, and our mē bres prepared for vnrightuouſnes. For there is no couplynge of good and euyl together, heate and colde, fyre and water. This is our doctrine that we hauehave learned of the worde of God contrarie to that you teach by your Pope holie Doctours. We affirme that no wycked man (muche leſſe any vnreaſonable beaſte) can eate the bodie of Chriſt. Our reaſon grounded vpō ſcripture is this? No wicked …ii. Syllogiſmoſſes.mā or brute beaſt hath fayth. But Chriſt can not be eaten otherwiſe then by fayth: no wycked man therfore, or brute beaſt, can eate Chriſt. Agayne. He that eateth my fleſhe and drinketh my bloude, hath euerlaſtynge lyfe, Iohn. vi.and I wyl reyſe him at the laſt day. But the wicked hauehave not euerlaſting life, neither ſhal any vnreaſonable beaſt be reyſed agayne to lyfe: wherefore neither of them doth eate the fleſhe of Chriſte. Agayne. He that eateth my fleſhe and drynketh my bloude, dwelleth in me and I in hym. But no beaſte or wycked man can dwell in Chriſte, or hauehave Chriſte dwellynge in hym: wherefore they eate him not. Agayne. He that eateth me, he lyueth for me. And he that hath the ſonne hath life.…. Iohn. v.
An hundrede places mo there be whyche moue vsus to ſpeake more reuerētly of Chriſt then you do (that is) that the trewe fayethfull man onelyonly maye be parte ta…ar of the bodye, bloude and death of oure Sauioure Chriſt. Who as they onelyonly are parte takers of the lyfe euerlaſtynge: ſo are they onelyonly: and continually fedde wyth the fode, whiche fedeth into the lyfe euerlaſtynge, wyth thys breade that cometh downe from heauen, whereof who ſo eateth ſhall neuer dye: who Iohn. vi.ſo eateth or drinketh therof: ſhal neuer be hun grie or thirſtie.
Nowe for your ſubſtanciall ſolution, for the ſubduinge of the ſenſes. You ſaye thus.
The trewe churche of Chriſte, hath ſubdued Wincheſters wordes.theyr ſenſes: that they hauehave continually ſeene ſuch notable repugnaunce to their ſenſes, and yet were not moued in theyr fayth.
For thys cauſe oughte we not to beleue The anſwer.theyr tales. Thys is like as the Phariſies myghte hauehave anſwered Eſaye, Hieremie, and other of the Prophetes, cryinge out on theyr Idolles, ſayinge that they had eyes and could not ſee, eares and could not heare, mouthes and coulde not ſpeake. And feete and coulde not go.
They myght hauehave anſwered as they dyd to Ieremie. Templum domini, templum domini.
The church of the Lorde, choſen by God furth of the ſtocke of Leuie, hath ſo captiuated their ſenſes that they hauehave ſene continually theſe Idolles to be ſuche as you ſpeake, and yet were they neuer moued wyth them. Let theſe tales paſſe therefore. For thus dyd the prieſtes keepe the Iſraelites captyue in the tyme of Chriſte to their owne damnation. We are the diſciples of Moyſes (ſaye they) and God dyd ſpeake vntounto Moyſes. But we knowe not thys Chriſte frō whence he cometh. None of the princes or heades of holy church beleue in hym, nor yet any of the Phariſies, but onelyonly thys vnlearned multitude. The Rabbies ſee his miracles, they The Rabbies heare and ſe but beleue not.heare his preachinges: but they captiue their wittes and ſay that he is a ſinner, and al that confeſſe his name, they caſte out of their churches.
Thys church, adourned and decked with much outwarde holines, hauyng their office or duitie preſcribed or appoynted vntounto them by the worde of God, longe tyme together: rebuked the poore blinde man that reaſoned the cauſe of Chriſt with them, ſaying. Thou arte borne all in ſynne, and wilte thou teache vsus? Nowe becauſe in all ages this cloke and craftie argumēt hath deceyued many, wherfore we wyll are no more what you of the churche do ſaye: but what Moyſes, the Prophetes, the Apoſtles, the ſcripture of God, and Chriſt hym ſelfe, do ſaye. Of whō with cleare voice and manifeſte miracle, it was hearde from heauen. This is my dearly beloued ſonne in whō I delite, heare you him. For if we ſhoulde heare you in thys reaſon, Marke the fruites of my Lordes opinion.you woulde by the ſame brynge vponupon oure neckes agayne, the Pope, his Pardones, Pilgrimages, Abbayes, yea the filthy Stewes, maynteyned continually in your eyes, and vnderunder your noſe, ſo longe. And yet in al theſe thinges you gentlemen of the churche, hauehave ſo well captiuated your wyttes: that you hauehave beleued and thought the open mainteinaunce of whoredome (both bodily and ſperitually) to be worthely cheriſhed, and that the one was ſeruiſeable for the commune wealth: the other profitable to Chriſtes religion.
You hauehave ſo longe deceyued vsus, that vnleſſe You ſhall mocke vsus no longeryou do bring the worde of Chriſt with you: we dare not truſte you any longer vnderunder the name of Chriſtes vicares, and Chriſtes church, whiche termes you do vſe (as appeareth by your bokes) not for any louelove you hauehave vntounto Chriſte, for then woulde you perſecute no mā, profeſſing Chriſt and cleauing vntounto him onelyonly and his worde, but be ready to e… daūger your ſoule… for you… therne. And by thys badge of louelove ſhould we know you to be Chriſtes diſciples. In the meane ſeaſon we wyll folowe the commaundement of Chriſte, we wyll not folowe the voice of any ſtraunger, we wyll playnely proteſte oure fayth in the ſimplicitie of lambes or doues. Yet wyll we alwayes hauehave regarde vntounto oure heade Chriſte. And that is the proprietie of the ſerpente. And we wyll ſtoppe Math. x.our eares whē you bringe in your inchauntmentes. For thoſe wordes of yours are of wouderfulle force. Fyrſte you do by them, call downe into a litle cake, or (as you do gloſe it more fynely) into a fewe accidentes: God the ſeconde perſonne in trinitie, who ſitteth at the ryghte hande of the father. Then, when you hauehave wroughte ſo wittilie and myghtely wyth Chriſte: you take man in hande, and woulde bewitche hym to beleue that, that cake is no cake, and that the breade is fleſhe, bloude and bones. You tell hym his eyes be blynde. His taſte and ſenſes deceyue hym. His reaſon is nothynge worth in your mattiers. For thoughe all the miracles of Chriſt dyd euē apeare as he wrought them. As if they were ſpirituall, they ſo appeared vntounto the ſoule of man, and were felte ſpiritually, as the forgyueneſſe of ſynnes, the healynge of ſoules and ſuche lyke: ſo doubtles, the miracles that Chriſte wrought bodilie, dyd appeare in the bodies wherein he wroughte them. But thys ſtraunge miracle of yours. muſte clearely mocke and delude all oure ſenſes and vnderſtandynge, and leade vsus captyue to beleue that you can make God by his worde, of a vyle piece of paſte. Yet ſurely (in conſcience I thynke it) your ſelues do not beleue that there is ſo greate power in the wordes of God For if you dyd: ſurely you coulde not be ſo bolde as to burne it. For no fayle, if it can make God, it can deſtroye wycked men, yea though they be byſhoppes. Moreouer you ſaye.
Two thynges are to be conſidered in Wincheſters wordesthe Sacramente of the aultare, one that it is a Sacramente. An other that it is the thynge it ſelfe of the Sacramente, that is to ſaye Chriſtes mooſte precious bodye and bloude.
VponUpon thys I demaunde, what you do The anſwer.meane by thys terme Sacramente. If you ſaye that a Sacramente is a ſigne or remembraunce of an holie thynge (as all your owne Doctours hauehave defined a Sacramente) then wyll we ſaye (as the trueth is, and as we hauehave taughte heretofore) that this is the moſte holie ſigne, and bleſſed remēbraunce of Chriſt our Sauiour, which offered his bodie for our ſinnes, and cōmaunded vsus to frequent and vſe the ſame in the remembraunce of him, who dyed once for vsus, and ſitteth nowe at the right hande of God, a perpetuall meane betwene God and man. And heare is the ful profite, vſe and commoditie that any man can hauehave by thys Sacramente. Yet this wyll not ſatiſfie you, vnleſſe you hauehave vsus ſo captiue, that we wyl ſaye after you. The Sacramente is the ſelfe ſame thinge that it ſignifieth. Chriſt muſt be made in the remembraunce of Chriſt. I demaunde of you in all other thynges, be they holie or prophane, where you cā fynde me one thinge that is both the ſigne and the thinge it ſelfe. The holie Sacramente of Baptiſme is not ſo. The holy Sacramēt of circumciſion was not ſo. The holy Sacrament of the Paſchal lambe, was neuer named ſo in the olde teſtamente. Yet had they as playne wordes for them, as you hauehave for yours. For the circumciſion is called the couenaunt, and the lambe is called the paſſeo…er. But you wil hauehave the Sacrament to be the thinge it ſelfe, and the ſigne to be the Sauiour. For this intent no fayle, that you being but the ſignes and ſhadowes Marcke my Lordes intentof true Biſhoppes, your two forked cappes and labelles, the ſignes of muche holines and knowledge in both the teſtamētes, your white raichet, the ſigne of chaſtitie and purenes, your precio…s ſhoes, the ſignes of precious fnote ſteppes in preaching the Goſpel: may be accompted the verie thinges thē ſelues that be ſignified. So ſhoulde we neither loke into heauen for our only Sauiour ſitting at the righte hande of his father, nor yet for true holines in you vponupon earth, being ſatiſfied by your ſignes and ſhadowes, your lyinge Poprie, dombe and deceyueable ceremonies. It foloweth in your text.
When we cal the Sacrament of the aultare God, we vnderſtande the ſubſtaunce of Wincheſters wordesthe Sacrament, whiche is Chriſte God and man there preſent. And according to that vnderſtanding, we attribute al goodly honour vntounto it. And in thys ſpeache, the worde Sacramēt, ſignifieth and giueth vnderſtanding by a ſpecial ſignificacion, and by excellencie (as learned men ſpeake of it) the thinge ſignified, beinge there preſent, that is to ſaye, the bodie and bloude of our Sauiour Chriſte, whiche can not be broken with hande, cā not be torne wyth teeth, or denoured of beaſtes, or putrified. Neither can the bodily ſenſes, herein beare any witnes to the contrarie, for they can not atteyne that. But when we vſe the worde, Sacramente, or the worde, hoſte, and applye the ſpeach of it to ſuche a matter as may not be ſayed of the naturall bodie of Chriſte: then the ſpeache is verified in thoſe formes of breade and wyne, vnderunder the which the moſt preciouſe body and bloud of Chriſt is couered, as when we ſaye the ſacrament is broken or moulded, or altered, it is onelyonly vnderſtanded of the ſayed forme of breade and wine, being the outward accidētes as the qualities or dimētiōs, which god ther preſerueth not otherwiſe by outward miracle, being thē ſuſteined: by his moſte preciouſe bodilie ſubſtance. Then when they be naturally ioyned to the ſubſtance of bread, whereof that God thus doeth not, mans ſenſes (becauſe thoſe accidentes be ſenſile) may Iudge for we ſe it ſo and thoſe accidentes be perceptible, by the bodelie ſyght and ſenſe▪ and withe the eie of the ſoule in faieth, we ſe the preſence of oure moſte bleſſed ſauiour Chriſt, who ther is the onelyonly ſubſtance of the ſacrament, ſo longe remayninge vnderunder thoſe accidentes, as the forme of bread and wyne, vnderunder whiche (by the omnipotēcie of his worde, it pleaſeth him to exhibite him ſelfe vntounto vsus) doe remayne and contynewe.
In your firſt liues (wherin is taught, that The anſwerethe ſacramente is god and man, and therfore muſte be worſhiped withe all godly honour is intollerable blaſphemie. For neither hauehave you any ſcripture to proue it to be God, nor yet that euer Chriſte or his dearely beloued apoſtles, taught that it ſhould hauehave al godly honour. At his holy ſupper he cōman̄ded thē al to eate this breade and drinke this cup deuiding it amonge thē. To ſette vp any newe God therefore, not taughte in the ſcriptures, is blaſphemie▪ and the ſettynge vp therof, deſerueth ſtoning to death by the law of Moyſes. And Paule byddeth that if an Angell Deut. xiij.come downe frō heauē, to preache any other Goſpel then that whiche the Apoſtles hauehave preached; we ſhoulde take hym as accurſed.
And is not thys a newe Goſpell, to teach a Sacrament to be a God? to teache that the bread (which is a vile creature) is very God, and that it ought to be worſhypped wyth all diuine honour & worſhip? The ſacramēt that Chriſt made and ordeined to be a memoriall of his death & redēption by him: to be made Chriſt him ſelfe, is it not blaſphemie? A piece of paſt whiche was made but yeſterday, can it be made a ſacrifice to take awaye ſynne wythout blaſphemie? If a man ſhoulde call the ſacramēt of baptiſme god, and do al godly honour thereunto: woulde you not ſay he were mad? And yet is Baptiſme the chiefe ſacramēt, both becauſe it is the firſt ſacramēt … ſigne wherein the free merciemercy of God is declared and opened vntounto vsus: and that in it no les, thē in the other, we do receiue the promiſes of God, and his holie ſpirite, to the confirmation of our faith and ſure truſt in him.
Moreouer oure Sauiour Chriſte ſayeth thus of Baptiſme. Iohn baptiſed you in water, but I wyl baptiſe you in the name of the holie goſte. And for a playne euidence and tokē of the ſame he ſent downe the holie goſt in a viſible fourme, both vponupon the Apoſtles and them that they baptiſed in his name.
If you had ſo muche in the ſcripture for the diuinitie of the other Sacramente: I woulde not ſo greatly wonder if your fleſhly iudgement did take it for a verie God.
But ſeinge that wyth theſe ſcriptures you Baptiſme is not eſtemed as it is worthy.eſteme the one litle or nothinge at al, and yet wythout theſe or any other lyke ſcriptures, you maynteyne and defende (yea and that with ſworde, fyre and faggot) that the other is God and worthy of all godly honoure: I can not but merueile, and that greatly. Yea and muche the more, for that you hauynge the experience of the feyned miracles that hauehave bene wroughte for the eſtabliſhynge of the fleſhly preſence of Chriſte in this Sacrament (as I am ſure you had by one Nicholas Geruis prieſt, who pricked his fingar in the tyme of his maſſe that the bloude might ſeme to fall from the breade, vponupon the corpreſſe and aultare cloth, as appeared at Paules croſſe, wythin the. v. yeres laſte paſte) ſhoulde yet ſo blindly and tirānouſly maynteine this deueliſhe and moſt wicked errour, I meane the deitie and godly honoure that you attribute to this ſigne or Sacrament.
If the whole courſe of your tale (whiche I hauehave rehearſed) be not altogether Sophiſtrie: ſurely, I neuer learned Sophiſtrie: For when you come to tell vsus what is broken, Marke my▪ Lordes Sophiſtry.what is moulded, and what the miſe do eate: then ſay you that the Sacrament is the hoſt, the fourme of breade and wyne, and the vtwarde accidentes, as the qualities and dimē ſions. And this fourme, theſe outwarde accidentes, theſe qualities, theſe dimenſions, are broken, are moulded, are altered, and muſte no more be God.
Thus you woulde blynde vsus wyth your Sophiſtrie, and make vsus to beleue that it is God when you call it ſo: and no God but accidentes, qualities and dementions, when you wyll hauehave it ſo. Agayne notwythſtandyng you do eate the ſame thynge that you do breake, and breake the ſame thynge that you do eate: yet when you eate it, it muſte be God, and when you breake it it muſt be but accidētes & no God. Moreouer, if it chaunce you to touche it wyth your teeth, and ſwalowe it downe your throte, make it ſuffre heate in your ſtomake, and become paſſible otherwayes: then is it onelyonly the fourme, the outwarde accidentes, the qualities, and dimēſiōs, and no God. But you deceyue your ſelues with vayne wordes, and therfore, like as you do breake the outwarde thynges: ſo do you eate and are fed with the ſame ſophiſtical ware, where of ye dreame. Thys is muche like a man that dreameth a… the night longe. that he hath eatē, quaile, raile, and cur lewe, and that he hath drokē pleaſāt wine his fyll: and yet in the mornynge he is neuer the leſſe hūgery and thurſtie, becauſe he had nothing, but the fourmes, ſhadowes, outwarde accidences, and qualities. But the litle mouſe Learne wit at the mouſe.is muche wyſer, then you make your ſelues. For ſhe can knowe the fourme of your cake from the cake it ſelfe. Paynt it in fourme and qualities as craftelie as you can, ſhe neither wyl nor cā feede vponupon any ſuche qualities or fourmes. Neither is ſhe ſo foliſhe to be mocked with any ſuche dreames. I ſpeake playne engliſhe nowe: yea I can not nor wyl not vſe any ſophiſtrie. And we al that be engliſhe men, do earneſtly deſire you, to tell vsus in engliſhe, what you do meane by thoſe termes, accidentes, qualities, and demenſions, which I do know you cā neuer do, onles you do reigne in the bowelles of ſophiſtrie. For thei are the peculiar termes of that deueliſhe arte. Yet amongeſt ſo many your ſubtlie termes you hauehave one good ſentence, howe it eſcaped you I can not tell. Wyth the eye of The Lorde open the eye of your ſoulethe ſoule (you ſay) in faith we ſee the preſence of the moſte precious bodie of our Sauiour Chriſt. Theſe your wordes are euē the very words of our beliefe. This is the thing only & wholy that cā worke in this ſacramēt. For if it be the fode of the ſoule only (as doubtles if is) thē cā not the bodilie inſtrumēt meddle therwith. It muſt be receiued by the powers of the ſoule only, which are ſpiritual. But no bodilie & carnal thing cā be eatē of the ſpirite for the ſpirite muſt be borne & nourriſhed of the ſpirite, likeas the fleſh is borne & noriſhed of bodilie thinges. I cōclude therfore, that in the ſacramēt, we do not eate bodilie, carnally & really the bodi of chriſt, but onli ſpiritually as you hauehave in this place ſaid ful wel (wyth the eies of our ſoul in faith) for the ſoule hath none other inſtrument, wherby it maye take fode of life, but fayth & the knoledge of god whiche fedeth euerlaſtingly as Chriſt ſaith. This is the wil of him that ſent me, that eueryevery one that ſeeth the ſon & beleueth in hym, ſhal hauehave euerlaſting lyfe. And I ſhall repſ… hym at the laſte daye. God ſende vsus ſoule prieſtes that wyll teache vsus this fode of the ſoule more diligētly thē you biſhoppes hauehave done. For you hauehave alwaies tolde vsus a craftie tale, ſayinge that Chriſte remayneth ſo longe vnderunder the accidentes, as the fourme of breade and wyne doth remayne.
Lo this is it that you doubt vponupon, fearing to make ſuch play…e anſwer whē you bringe in theſe doubtes, in the ſixtene leafe of your boke.
If there remayne no ſubſtaunce but the Wyncheſter in the. xvi. leafe of his boke.ſubſtaunce of the body and bloud of Chriſt, it muſte needes be then, that the ſame corrupteth, or elles when goeth it awaye? or where hauehave you ſcripture to declare the goinge awaye of Chriſt from the hoſte?
Before you anſwere ſubtilly like a Sophiſter, The anſwer.ſayinge. What if I and ſuche other prelates can not tell, deludynge one queſtion wyth an other (as the maiſter of Sopiſtrie Iohannes de lapide teacheth to delude argumentes) but nowe boldly like a biſhop with out'any ſcripture, onelyonly becauſe your father and mother churche of Rome doeth ſaye the ſame: you affirme that Chriſte remayneth ſo longe as the fourme of the bread remaineth, that is, from the tyme it is made, to the tyme it is deuoured ether by man or mouſe, or els …oth by other miſſe fortuue, or by mouleyng miſcarie.
Oh foleiſhe & blind guides. To what filthy abſurdities muſt ye of neceſſitie be driuē by this fond opinion that here is no ſubſtāce but the ſubſtance of Chriſt: and that this ſubſtance remayneth ſo longe onelyonly as the forme of breade remayneth: For this forme remaynethe euen when the mouſe rennethe awaye withe it. The forme of breade remayneth, when it is broken, eaten, and mouldeth. And what ſo euer goeth into the mouth (ſayeth Chriſte) the ſame goeth into the bealie, Mathe. xv.and ſo is conueighed farder. So that this whiche you teach of the reall, carnall, and bodilie preſence of Chriſte, may well be called deuelliſh ſophiſtrie. For ſeyng that al lies are of the deuell (as the father and authoure of them) theſe lienge blaſphemies muſt neades be of him, and verie dyuelleſh ſophiſmes to ſet forth his kyngdome of darkeneſſe.
The ſpirite of God, and the ſpiritual doctrine of the holie goſte, can not dwell yn you bycauſe you be fleaſhe. The ſpiritual eating of the bodie of Chriſt by fayeth.
How Chriſt, who ſitteth nowe at the ryght hand of his father and hath by his death and paſſion payed ſufficient raunſome for all our ſinnes, hath pacified the wrath of his …ather, by the takynge our ſynnes on his backe hathe gotten vsus life by hys death, and wh… ſo euer benefit we hauehave receyued by the deth of our ſauioure Chriſte, thys wyl you neuer teache and preache vntounto vsus in the miniſtring of the Sacramente and in your Pope holie Maſſe: but you teache vsus to gaſe and galpe at a thinge we knowe not, whiche you ſaye is in your chalice and is holden vp betwexte your fingersto be worſhiped with all godly honour vnderunder the forme of bread vnderunder outwarde accidentes, qualities, and dimenſions And thus doe you bliude vsus with your ſophiſtrie termes, that we can not perceyue what you meane. But yf you woulde anſwere ſimpliciter (as you are wonte to laye to our charge) either that this ſacrament is Your owne ſwerde ſtryketh of your …eade.Chriſt God and man, or that it is not Chriſt him ſelfe, really, carnally, and naturalli: then ſhuld this ſtrife be ſon…at an end. But ſeyng that it ſhalbe Chriſte, God, and man bodilie preſent whan you will name it ſo, and qualities, accidentes, and dimenſions, when you wil hauehave it ſo: ſurely we can not but of force call you ſophiſters. Agayne when Chriſte muſt be in the forme of bread, and vnderunder the forme of breade, I can not tell what ſcripture you hauehave for you, you go frome your ſh… …nchor (this is my bodie) and other handfaſt I can ſe you take no…e. Then procede you wyth your ſophiſtrie and therby charge vsus wyth the thinges in thys wyſe.
i. Firſt you ſaye that we woulde hauehave all in out warde miracle.
ii. Thē, that if accidētes were made imp… ſſible, the deuell woulde require that mans bodie ſhoulde be imp…ſſible.
iii. Thirdly, that the ſenſes maye not empayre oure fayeth.
For the fyrſte, we anſwere, that we do re…ier no miracle other wiſe thē whā we ſa… that Chriſte is the lambe of God. But you would hauehave ſuche a miracle dayely wrought is Chriſt neuer did vponupon the erth euen ſuch …ne as … her ſcripture teſtifieth, nor any cō mon ſenſe, wit, nor reaſon, ſhould perceiue. A miracle good for nothinge, but to maintaine your powre. A miracle that no mā cā eſpie but prieſtes and ſuch as geue eares to pophiſh li…. A miracle muche more blinde then Magipharaonis, for theirs dyd at the leſtway ſ… appeare as they enchaunted it to be.
Secondly, that mans bodie ſhoulde be impaſſible▪ you ar the firſt that named it. Wherfore if it be of the deuel (as I thinke no leſſe) take it to your ſelfe, for it is your own terme
… …l the ſēſ… and reaſō … to do ſeruice and beare witneſſe vntounto our faieth, i… like maner as the Apoſtles do witneſſe the thinges that they ſawe with their eies, harde with their eares, and hādled with their hād…
We aſke no forder ſigne nor miracle but …. Iohn. i.thoſe that Chriſt hath wrought alredie. But you muſt hauehave …ie new miracles to ſtrēgthē your faieth, cōtinualli▪ makeing this cake of yours, Chriſte, boeth God and man. And beſides this (which is more like madneſſe thē miracle) eue… whoremoungar, dr…ckarde and Idi… ſhal hauehave a God of his owne making, ſo ſone as he hath …nbled▪ vp. iiii. latine wordes. And that the diuell maie playe his pagia…t among the childrē of darckneſſe, he helpeth you forth with manie pretie miracles, both by the appearaūce of the dede and other waies, as your lieing bokes do teſtifie.
Thus maie you worthily be called Gens incredula que ſignum querit, et ſignum non Math. xii…j. and. xvi. Marc. viii. Luke. xi.dabitur ei niſi ſignum Ione prophete.
You hauehave the ſygne of Ionas the prophet that is to ſaye, of Chriſte lieinge in the erth and riſeing again. Yet this wil not ſerue you onleſſe you hauehave him impanate, and bodilie, carnallye, reallie, by a wonderful miracle in an hundred thouſād places at once. Whether of vsus twaine is nowe more like the capparnites? You that wil eate chriſt fleſh, bloud and bones as they required, and maye not abyd that we ſhould …eke in this ſupper, onelyonly the breade that did come downe from heauen, as Chriſte taught: or we that hauehave abundantly found this bread into life euerlaſting, and do cō …eſſe with Peter that the wordes of Chriſt are l…fe euerlaſtinge, and not the …heli eate inge of his bodie▪ We belieue Moſſes and the prophetes, for they hauehave geuen clare teſtimonies of thys that I do writte, in that thei teach one Meſſias and ſauiour of the world▪ We belieue alſo, that which Paule doth ſaie of theym all, that all the fathers were vnderunder the cloude. Thei were'al Baptiſed in the ſea, they dyd all eate of one ſpirituall meate and drinke one ſpiritual drinke, for thei dranke of the ſpirttual ſtone whiche folowed them, the ſtone was Chriſte.i. Corh. x.
We do beleue al thinges that are written tuen frō the fyrſt begining of Geneſis to the laſt word of the reuelaſions. But as you ſay we can not beliue your newe miracles, nor the appeareing of the dead. No nor yet you biſhopes, priſtes, nor any of your doctoures forther then you bringe the word of God in your inouthes So long wil we ſaie Ane vntounto you, and receiue you moſt willing lie. For our faieth hath hir onelyonly ground vponupon heare Rom. x.inge, not of euerie fable, but onelie the worde of God. Nowe biſhopes cōſider, that if you wil hauehave vsus hear ani doctrin that is not groū ded on the ſcripture (as your doctours, you… dreames, and viſions) you cauſe vsus to ſinne For that which is not of faith is ſin. Againe Rom. ….without fayeth it is impoſſible to pleaſe god and as fa…e impoſſible is it to hauehave faith and to beleue the doctours. For they are one cō trari to an other, ſo that no fayth can be grounded vponupon thē. Yea they thē ſelues woulde not be belieued father thē they bring the ſcripture for them. Their owne cōfeſſion therfore and the cōtrarietie that is in them, declareth them to be fleſhe, and we were accurſed if we ſhould make fleſhe oure arme and ſettle our Rom. iii.faith vpō mās wordes, for eueryevery mā is a lia…