Discussion of the Popish Doctrine of Transubstantiation, Part 2 · Division 5
Diuision 5.
HE concludeth his first Discourse thus, page 5. Thus they; and thus we: and yet neither doe they, nor N. P.wee therefore make the Sacrament of Christs body and blood ANY thing but bare bread and wine. Which Corollarium of his plainely so delivered may make any man see the Protestanticall Communion truely anathomized and plainely shewed to hauehave nothing holy, heauenly and diuinely (as the Fathers speake) therein contained, but bare bread and wine, which any man may eate when and where hee pleaseth, remembring withall our Sauiours passion, Neuer Caietan, neuer Bellarmine, neuer Gratian, neuer Father or other Catholique Diuine of our Church beleeued or taught this grosse and sacrilegious doctrine as my Aduersarie in his wordes, They, and Wee, falsely pretendeth. Neither doth Caluine or any other noted Diuine of their Church speake at least, whatsoeuer they thinke, so poorely and grossely of this Sacrament; but they endeauour with Epithets and wordes to couer the bready nakednesse thereof, making it seeme mysterious at least, if not miraculous. Blessed Saint Dennis great Scholler of Saint Paul himselfe, I will heere presume to aske thee. If the Sacrament of the Altar bee but bare bread and wine, why doest thou so absurdly speake and blasphemously praey vntounto it, in this manner? mS. Dennis Hierch. Eccles. cap. 3. part. 3.O most diuine and holy Sacrament, vouchsafe to open those signifying signes, and appeare perspicuously vntounto vsus; and replenish the spirituall eyes of our soule with the singular and cleere splendor of thy light, &c. Why likewise, thou holy Martyr and great Doctor of Christs Church Saint Itaeneus, liuing so neere the Apostles times, as to know great Polycarpus S. Iohns disciple, and deeply seene in the knowledge of heauenly verities, doest thou deny this bread after consecration to bee any more accounted common bread, but the Eucharist cōsisting of two things, heauenly and earthly; that being receiued into our bodies they may bee no more corruptible, hauing the hope of resurrection? If no more then bare bread and wine be in this Communion, as my Aduersarie affirmeth, why did yee, noble Confessors of the first Nicene Councell will vsus, nPatres in votis primi Nicen. Con….in this diuine table not to regard onelyonly bread and wine proposed, but to eleuate our minde by faith, and behold on this table the Lambe of God taking away the sinnes of the world by Priests vnbloodily sacrificed; and receiuing his body and blood to beleeue them to bee symboles and pledges of our resurrection? &c. O holy Ephrem renowned so for thy great learning and singular sanctitie, as Saint Ierome testifieth thy writings to hauehave beene read in the Church after the holy Scriptures, why doest thou will vsus not to search after these inscrutable mysteries, &c. but to receiue with a full assurance of faith the immaculate body of the Lord, and the Lambe himselfe entirely? adding those wordes which cannot agree to such a communion of bare bread and wine as this Minister teacheth; The mysteries of Christ are an immortall fire: search them not curiously, least in the search thou become burned, &c. telling vsus that this Sacrament doth exceed all admiration and speech, which Christ our Sauiour the onelyonly begotten Sonne of God hath instituted for vsus. Finally why doe other ancient …nd chiefe Fathers of the Greeke and Latine Church call the consecrated bread and wine on the Altar dreadfull mysteries, the food of life and immortality, hidden Manna, and infinitely excelling it, a heauenly banquet, the bread of Angels humbly present while it is offered, and deuoutly adoring it, &c. If there bee no more but bare bread and wine therein receiued in memorie of our Sauiours passion; as my Aduersarie affirmeth of his Protestanticall Sacrament.
THe next Diuisi… hee maketh entrance into with a T. G.grosse and shamelesse deprauation; and thereupon prosecuteth it to the end with an impertinent digression.
Hauing cited the forenamed Testimenies of Theodoret and Gelasius in mine Answer to that Obiection brought commonly against vsus, as if by a deniall of such a reall presence as Papists maintaine wee should make the Sacrament to be nothing but bare bread; I conclude both mine Answer and the Allegation of those two Authors in these wordes; Thus they, (to wit Gelasius and Theodoret) and thus we: and yet neither doe they nor we therefore make the Sacraments of Christs body and blood NOthing but bare bread and wine. Now this shamelesse wretch wanting matter to be dealing with, turneth me NOthing into ANY thing (a man able indeed with his shamelesse & senselesse shifts to picke any thing out of nothing) and relateth my wordes in this manner to a cleane contrary sense; Thus they; and thus we: and yet neither doe they, nor wee therefore make the Sacraments of Christs body and blood ANY thing but bare bread and wine.
Had either I or my Transcriber, for the truth is, iYet I remē ber now that the Marginall notes were of mine owne writing; which peraduenture occasioned his gird at mine hand.it was not mine owne hand-writing that hee had: I write a worse hand I confesse, then he is aware of, that accounteth that so bad an one: If either I or hee, I say, had slipt heere with the pen, as I suspected hee might hauehave done, till I saw the copie againe that this Answerer had; yet the whole tenour of my speech, wherein I shew that the bread and wine in the Eucharist are no more bare bread or bare wine, then the water vsed in the Sacrament of Baptisme is bare water, would sufficiently hauehave shewed my meaning. But when the copie that was deliuered him, remaining in the custodie of that Noble Personage for whom at first it was written, is found apparantly to hauehave the wordes in the very same manner as I hauehave before cited them, I cannot deuise kDic aliquē, dic, Quinti… ane, colorem. Iuven. sat, 6.what colour this audacious wretch can bring to salue his owne credite with, and excuse his corrupt carriage. It argueth not a bad, but a desperate cause, that without such senselesse and shamelesse shifts cannot bee vpheld. And I beseech your Ladiship well to consider, what credite is to be giuen to these men alleadging Authors, (Fathers, Councels, &c.) which they know you cannot your selfe peruse and examine, when they dare thus palpably falsifie a writing that you hauehave in your owne hands, and may hauehave recourse to when you will.
§ 2. Now hauing thus laid a lewd and loud vntruth for the ground of his ensuing Discourse:
1. Hee falleth into an Inuectiue against our Protestanticall Communion, as acknowledged by me to hauehave nothing holy, heauenly and diuinely (for so it pleaseth him to speak) therein contained, but bare bread and wine, &c. adding withall, that neuer C…ietan, neuer Bellarmine, neuer Gratian, neuer Father or other Catholique Diuine beleeued or taught this sacrilegious doctrine (a lye he meaneth, of his owne forging) as my Aduersarie in these wordes, They, and wee, falsly pretendeth.
In which wordes first (for hee cannot forbeare f…lsifying for his life, no not then and there where he chargeth others with falshood) he intimateth that in those words, Thus they; I should hauehave reference to Caietan, Bellarmine, and Gratian: whereas my wordes euidently point at Gelasius and Theodoret, whose owne wordes in precise tearmes I had next before cited.
2. He chargeth me falsely to say that of the Eucharish, that neither I, nor any of our Diuines euer said: yea which being by way of Obiection before produced, I not onelyonly disauow and disprooue, approouing freely and at large proouing the contrary; but in this place in plaine tearmes conclude the direct contrary vntounto in the very wordes by him fowly falfified.
3. Hee runneth out (to giuegive vsus some taste of his rowling Rhetoricke as well as his loose Logicke) into a solemn inuocation of his forged S. Dionyse, together with some of the Ancients, (as if hee were raising of Spirits with some magicall inchantment, to fight with a shadow, and to skirmish with a man of straw of his owne making) to testifie in that against vsus that hee would faine put vponupon vsus, but none of vsus (by his owne confession) euer said or doe say.
Thus hee hath nibled here and there, cauilled at bymatters, coined lies, forged and faced; but giuen no direct Answer to the Argument, whereunto hee should hauehave answered, and whereby it was prooued that these wordes of our Sauiour, This my body, may well beare a figuratiue sense; so expounded by the Ancient Fathers, and confessed by their owne writers; not so much as attempted to prooue the contrary thereunto.
§ 3. Now howsoeuer I might very well let passe, as impertinent, those citations and sayings of the Authors here summoned to giuegive in either testimony or sentence against that that none of vsus auoweth, and which therfore, though all, that either they doe say, or hee would hauehave them say, were true, did no way crosse vsus, or once touch vsus in ought that is heerein affirmed of vsus; and I had sometime therefore determined wholy to passe by them, for feare of ouercharging this Discourse: yet considering that some weake ones peraduenture may stumble at some passages in them, especially as they are vnfaithfully by this alleadger of them here translated: I hauehave thought good now ere wee part with them, to examinine what they say, that may seeme to make in any sort not against that heere charged on vsus, which we vtterly deny, but against that which of this Sacrament we hold otherwise.
The first testimony is S. Dennis his, shewed before to be but a counterfeit by the confession euen of Popish writers themselues. But whosoeuer hee were (for lIllum esse de quo in Actis fit mentio, soli, in hac luce literarum, imperiti, & cum linguae Graecae, tum antiquitatis Ecclesiasticae penitus rudes audent affirmare. Casaub, ad Baron. annal. exerc. 16. ss. 43.certaine enough it is that he was not the party whose name hee beareth, but one of a farre later time, vnknowne vtterly to Athanasius, Eusebius, and Ierome, though curious searchers and enquirers after the workes of those that were before them, mScripta Dionys…i ante tempora B. Georgij non videntur fuisse cog…ita mundo Bellarm. in Indic. Scrip. MS. apud Rob. Cocum in Cens. Patr. Qui & u…dendus de Dionysio isto. Et Anastasius Biblioth, ad Carol, Reg. apud Andr. Riuet. in specim. Critit. l. 1. c. 9.nor knowne commonly to the world before Gregories dayes, as Bellarmine also himselfe acknowledgeth) hee maketh little for them in this point, either in that that here is alleadged, or in ought else that Bellarmine can fish or fetch out of him. His wordes in the place heere cited are these and no more: O most diuine and holy Mysterie, symbolically discouering those nforeign.enigmaticall ensoldments, bee declared brightly vntounto vsus, and replenish our intellectuall eye sights with oforeign.single (or immixt) and vnenueloped light. These (I say) his wordes are as neere as I can expresse them: Which I so doe to giuegive you a taste of this Dennis his stile, writing rather like pDithyrambos concinit. Ma…sil. Fi…in. Genus dicendi cothurno Tragi…o vel Dithyrambicis ampullis non multum distat. Casaub. vbi sub.a Dithyrawhicall Poet (the boldest sort of them) then like a sober and sound Diuine; as qforeign Col. 2. 18. De his rebus magno supercilio pronuncians, de quibus Paulus è coelo tertio reuersus non ausus est hiscere. Eras. de ver. Theol.taking vponupon him to determine the degrees, orders, and offices of the Angels in heanen, which other rIren. cōt. Valent. l. 2. c. 55. Cyril. nomi. catech. mystag. 2. Aug. enchit. c. 58. De Athanasio vide Sixt. sen. biblioth l. 3. de Greg. & Bern. Eckium hom. 4. de Michael. & Riber in Heb. c. 1.the Ancients durst not doe; so discoursing of them and such other matters as hee entreateth of in an affected swelling and abstruse straine, and coining a world of strange wordes and phrases no where else to bee found. And no more they are then these; which I adde, because to the end of his allegation this fellow putteth an, &c. as if the Author had in that place vsed some longer discourse of that kinde. Nor is the sp…ch (as he would hauehave it) a prayer; but a meere prosopopoei…, or rhetoricall compellation, directed not to the Elements alone, but to the Eucharist, or the Lords Supper (if with the s… Cor. 11. 20. vide Casaub. ad Baron. exer. 16. sect. 32.Apostle tCaluinistae sinè scripturae autoritate, sine veterum exemplo, si…e ratione, sine iudici… coenam vocant. Maldonat. in Math. c. 26.they will giuegive vsus leaue at least so to tearme it) the whole Mysterie, or mysterious rite, as uforeign.the word there vsed properly importeth. Which Pachymeres the Greeke paraphraser of this Dennis well paralleleth with another of Gregorie Nazianzenes of the same nature; (and as well might Bellarmine or this Defendant hauehave alleadged the one as the other.) Who in his Easter-day Sermon turning his speech to the Festiuity it selfe, and then from it to Christ himselfe, the substance of it, as Nicetas also well obserueth; x O great and holy Passeouer (saith he) the purgation of the whole world. yforeign.For I will speake to thee as t… some liuing thing. O word of God, and light, and life, and wisedome, and might. For I take delight in reckoning vp all thy titles. HaueHave thou this Oration as well…g…atul…torie as supplicatorie, and so forth. And Nicet as thereupon; Those * foreignwordes, O Pasch or Passeouer, zAd festum ipsum perinde ac vita praeditum refert.he speakes or referreth to the Feast it selfe. But those, O word of God, and so forward, by way of acclamation hee directeth to Christ the spirituall Passeouer. Nor is it vnlike to the speech that Ambr. makes * Ad Christum spi…itale Pascha per acclamationem dirigit.in generall to the Element of water, though with more special allusion and application to the water of Baptisme: fO qua, quae Sacramentum Christi esse mesuisti: quae omnia lauas, nec lauaris. Ambr. in Lue. l. 10. c. 22.O water that hast merited (that is, in the vsuall language of those Auncieuts, too much abused by our Aduersaries, hast beene vouchsa…ed the grace) to be a Sacrament of Christ: that washest all, vnwasht of any. Thou bringest in the first; thou closest vp the last Mysteries. The beginning is from thee; and the end in thee: or rather thou makest vsus to bee without end. And so he goeth on in a long speech to the Element, which yet no wise man will say that he had any purpose there to pray vntounto. Nor any more had this Dennis g Tu incipis prima, tu cō ples perfecta mysteria. A te principium; in te finis. vel potius tu facis vt finem nesciamus, &cwhen he discoursed thus to the Eucharist; the rather to be admitted and so conceiued in him, considering his Poeticall and aenigmaticall vaine and manner of discourse. I might well put them in minde of that Hymne of theirs, wherein they thus if not inuocate, at least parley with the Crosse:
hO aue, Crux, spes vnica: Hoc passionis tempore, Auge piis iustitiam; Reis que dona veniam.All h…ile, O Crosse, our onelyonly Hope;
This Passion time [thy power set ope:]
In righteous Persons grace encrease:
To sinfull soules their sinnes release.
Which howsoeuer they would faine salue with such a prosopopoeia iGabr. Vasquez de Adorat. l. 2. c. 4. dis. 3. num. 430. & Bellar. de cult. Sanct. l. 2. c. 24.some of them; yet kThom. Aq. summ par. 3. quae. 25. art. 4. Crux adoratur adoratione latriae.Aquinas ingenuously confesseth that therein they giuegive diuine worship to the woodden Crosse: or of the like speeches that in a forme both of praise, and praier, they vse to lSalue sancta facies nostri Seruatoris, Impressa panniculo niuei candoris, Dataque Veronicae signum ob amoris: Nos ab omni macula purga vitiorum: Atque nos consortio iunge beatorum, &c. Oratio à loanne Pp. 22. instituta. Antidot. animae.the Veronicke or the print of Christs face in a towel; and mO veneranda Zona, fac nos haeredes aeternae & beatae vitae, &c. Oratio ab Euthymio composita.to our Ladies girdle, and othèr the like, wherein they craue …o lesse of them, beside sundry other graces, then to be clensed from all sinne, and to attaine eternall happinesse: in so much that one of their writers relating the latter of them breaketh out into these words; nO quam magna & mira petit a veneranda Zona. Lipoman.O how many, and how marueilous things are requested of that holy girdle! To which I might well adioyne also, what Aquinas saith, that oCrucem alloquimur & deprecamur quasi ipsum crucifixum. Thom. vbi sup.they speake & pray to the Crosse as to Christ crucified himself: and what Bellarmine telleth vsus that their pSic concionatores alloquuntur imaginem crucifixi, &c. Bellar de imagin. c. 23.Priests and Friers in the pulpit are wont to say to the woodden Crucifix, qTu nos redemisti, &c.Thou hast redeemed vsus, and reconciled vsus to God the Father. Which he thus salueth, that this they say to it, not as it is a piece of wood, nor as it is an image neither, but as it supplyeth the place of him whom it representeth, that is, rDicuntur Christo, cuius imago vicem gerit.they say it to Christ, whose Deputie & vicegerent the Image there is. And yet from all this (though too too bad and grosse indeed, yea absurd and blasphemous by this mans owne grant) will no man inferre, that they hold either that girdle to be the Uirgin Mary, or either the woodden Crosse, or the stained towel, or the carued Crucifix to be Christ himselfe. So that though that of Dennis were a prayer indeede, which yet plaine it is that it is not, yet were it not, by their owne grounds and graunts, sufficient to prooue that he held the Sacrament therefore to be Christ himselfe. I adde onelyonly what sEx Aug. de ciuit lib. 18. c. 28. Bed. in 1. Cor. 10.from Augustine venerable Bede hath, that holy tOmnia significantia videntur quodammodo earum rerum quas significant sustinere personas.Signes not onelyonly are called by the names, but doe in some sort sustaine the persons also of those things that they represent. Which as being well considered it may helpe to cleere many speeches of the Ancients wherin they speak those things of the sacred Elements, which cannot be vnderstood but of the things by thē signified, so it occasioned them to take the more libertie to themselues for such Rhetoricall compellations, as before hauehave bin spoken of. Yea, but else-where (may some say,) and that but a little after, he turneth himselfe to the Host, which is said there to be his better or aboue him, and therefore uAt certè purus panis non supra nos est. Bellarm. de Euch. l. 2. c. 3.not bare bread; excusing himselfe to it, that he presumeth to deale with it. Indeede so it pleaseth xBellarm. Ibid.Bellarmine to cite him as if hee had said; yPontifex quod hostiam salutarem quae supra ipsum est litet, &c.The high Priest, that he sacrificeth the sauing Host, that is aboue him, zSe excusat ad ipsum exclamans, &c.excuseth himselfe to him, or to it, crying out; Thou hast said, Doe this; &c. But let Dennis speake in his owne language, or but aPerionii versio à Lansselio Soc. Ies. subornata & suppleta.as their owne writers translate him, and both Bellarmines mis-alleadging of him will soone be discouered, and the force of his reason drawne from thence vtterly dissolued. That which he saith is word for word thus; bDionys. Hierarch Eccles cap. 3. part. 3.The diuine Hierarch standing at the diuine Altar, cforeign.celebrateth (that is, praiseth and extolleth) Christs holy diuine workes out of his most diuine care of vsus for our saluation by the goodwill of his Father in the Holy Ghost by him consummated. Which hauing celebrated, and by contemplation with intellectuall eyes taken a venerable and spirituall view of them, he passeth vntounto dforeign. Sacrificium quod signis continetur. Lauss.the symbolicall celebration (or, holy administration) of them, and that eforeign.according to diuine Tradition: Wherefore religiously and hierarchically (that is, as becommeth an Hierarch, or a Bishop) after the holy celebration (or, fforeign. Diuinorum operū laudes.solemne praise) of those diuine workes, gforeign. De sacrificio quod ipsius dignitatem superat se purgat. Laus.he maketh an Apologie for himselfe in regard of that boly seruice (or, sacrifice, as they translate it, though *It is vsed by this Author oft. speaking of Baptism. chap. 2.the word be more generall) that is to worthy for him to deale with, crying out to him, (to whom but to Christ Iesus before mentioned?) Thou hast said, Doe this in remembrance of me. And then hforeign. &c.hauing requested that he may be vouchsafed the grace of performing this holy and diuine seruice in holy manner, and that those that are to communicate may religiously partake in it, hee performeth the most diuine seruice, &c. For vncouering iforeign.the bread that was hitherto couered and vndiuided, and diuiding it into many pieces, and kforeign.distributing to them all the one onelyonly Cup, be doth symbolically, further their vnitie, lforeign.thereby performing his most holy seruice. Now where is there here any mention of an Host? or affirming that Host to be aboue him or better then himselfe? or making any speech at all to it? And yet if it were Christ, to whom should he direct his speech more fitly then to it? what should he speake to him as sited else-where, when hee hath him corporally there present? The rather if, as they tell vsus, *Corpus Christi, siue Christus, ibi videt & audit, quamuis non loquitur, ne deprehendatur. Bonauent. in sent. I. 4. dist. 10. quaest. 2.he seeth there what we doe, and heareth what we say, though he say nothing himselfe, because he would not be discouered. Yea but he acknowledgeth the holy seruice then and there to be performed, to be too worthy for him to deale with? And doth not the Apostle say as much of the ministery of the word; that mforeign; 2. Cor. 2. 16.no man is sufficient, or nforeign. i. foreign. vt Math. 3. 11 & 8. 8. Luke 3. 17. & 7. 6.worthy enough for such a worke? Or may not the same truly be said of the Sacrament of Baptisme, and the administration of it? There is nothing here then in either allegation that may at all helpe to establish the Popish Transubstantiation. And yet this is all, that out of this Dennis Bellarmine is able to produce. Who though indeede otherwise not free from sundry fantasticall conceipts, yet is so farre from enclining to that prodigious fancy, that the whole tenure of his discourse concerning that Sacrament (as the auncient Scholiast also hath well obserued on him) runneth cleane another way. He calleth the Eucharist, (as you hauehave heard) oforeign.a symbolicall seruice; and pforeign.a distribution of bread and a Cup: and the bread and the Cup vsed in it, qforeign.symboles or signes, and rforeign.images, or sforeign.pictures, and tforeign.paternes uforeign.resembling the truth of their principals, to which he doth also there oppose thē. And not we, but the Monke Maximus aunciently expounding him, xforeign. Maxim. Schol. in Hierarch. Eccles. c. 3.Marke you (saith he) how still he calleth this diuine seruice a Symbolicall seruice; that is, yforeign.a seruice (saith he) consisting of Symboles or Signes; and zforeign. Maxim. ibid.the holy gifts themselues signes or symboles of the true things aboue. And againe, *foreign. Ibid.He calleth them pictures and images of true things vnseene. And if we aske him what that word Symbole or Signe signifieth; aforeign. Idem in interpret. nom.A Symbole or Signe (saith he) is a thing sensible taken for something intelligible, as bread and wine for the spirituall and diuine foode and refection, and the like. Yea hereupon he inferreth that bforeign. Idem in schol.because these things are Symboles and Signes, they are not therefore the truth it selfe. For cforeign. Idem in cap 4.the image (saith he else-where, and that from Dennis himselfe too) albeit it hauehave neuer so neere a resemblance, yet in substance differeth from that whereof it is a resemblance. dDionys. eccles. hierar. c. 4The thing indeede it selfe (saith this Dennis) that by an exact image or picture is represented, is, if we may so say, thereby eforeign.doubled, while fforeign.the truth is shewed in the type, and gforeign.the precedent or principall in the picture or patterne; but yet there is for all that a diuersitie of substance in either.
From this Dennis his owne grounds therefore, we may wel reason and conclude thus against the Popish doctrine which they would hauehave him to vphold. No picture is the same in substance with that whose picture it is: But the bread and wine in the Eucharist are pictures and images (so he tearmeth them) of the spirituall foode, to wit, the body and blood of Christ. They are not therefore the same in substance with it. Or as Maximus directeth vsus; No type is the Truth: *foreign. Maxim in lib de diuin. nomin. c. 4.for it were then no type: But these foreign.are Types: and consequently other then the Truth.
The second allegation is out of Irenaeus: 1. Irenaeus (saith he) denieth the bread after consecration to be any more accounted common bread, but 2. The Eucharist, consisting of two things, heauenly and earthly, that being receiued into our bodies they may be no more corruptible, hauing the hope of resurrection. These words indeede are found the most of them in Irenaeus, but are foulely disioynted, and related in other manner then they lye in Irenaeus his context. As the bread (saith he) that is from the earth after diuine inuocation is no more common bread, but the Eucharist consisting of two things, the one earthly, the other heauenly: So our bodies receiue the Eucharist are not now corruptible, hauing the hope of resurrection. 3. Where first, He denieth the bread after consecration, to be any more iNon iam communi pani, &c.common bread: as before him Iustin Martyr, that they receiued those creatures kforeign. Iustin. apolog. 2.not as common bread, or common drinke. And doth not their Cyril (as before you heard) deny the oyle also after it is consecrate, to be any more lforeign. Cyril catech. myst. 3.common oyle? Or may we not say truly as the Auncients also oft doe? yea dare any Christian man say otherwise, but that the water in Baptisme being once consecrated, is no more *Non iam aqua communis. Chrysost. hom. in Psal. 22. & Greg. Nyssen, de Baptism. … Irenaeus contr. Valent. l. 4. c, 34.common Water? There is nothing then hitherto said by Irenaeus of the bread, but what may truly be said of any other consecrated creature: since that holy and common in this sense oppose and expell either other. Secondly, he saith that the Encharist consisteth of two things, the one earthly, the other heauenly. And doe not all Sacraments the same? Or doth not Baptisme the like? you may be pleased to consider, what out of their owne mAmbros. nom. de initiat. myst c. 3.Ambrose was before said of it; as also out of Gregorie Nyssene is here after related. For it is nothing to the purpose that Bellarmine obiecteth, that no man would say that the water of Baptisme consisteth of two things, the one earthly, the other heauenly: For neither * Greg. Nyssen. de baptis.doth Irenaeus say that the bread of the Eucharist, but the Eucharist it selfe of such two things consisteth. But I n Bellarm. de Euchar. l. 2. c. 6.would faine know how the Eucharist according to their doctrine should, when the bread is once consecrated, consist at all of any earthly thing, when the substance thereof is (as they say) thereby vtterly abolished? Sure Irenaeus his Eucharist consisting of matter in part earthly, and theirs hauing none at all such, are not one and the same. Thirdly, Irenaeus saith that our bodies receiuing the Eucharist are no more now corruptible; in regard of hope and expectation he meaneth of their future resurrection, which thereby they are assured of and sealed vp vntounto: (for otherwise who seeth not that they are not yet incorruptible?) as he afterward expoundeth himselfe. And what is said more here of the Lords Supper, then oAd spem resurrectionis Baptizatur corpus quae nisi corporalis, non alias sic baptismate corporali obligaretur. &c. Tertull. de resurr. carn. Hinc Hilar. de Trinit. l. 9. Regeneratio baptismi resurrectionis est virtus.Tertullian and others say of Baptisme, to wit, that by it the Flesh also hath its assurance of resurrection to life eternall? yea let them looke backe but a line or two, and they shall soone see, how little Irenaeus fauoureth their cause? pQuomodo dicunt carnē in corruptionem deuenire &c. quae à corpore Domini & sanguine alitur. Iren. l. 4. c. 34.How (saith he) say they that the flesh perisheth and liueth not euerlastingly, that is nourished with the body and blood of Christ? He affirmeth our flesh to be nourished with that which hee calleth the body and blood of Christ. And else-where more plainely: qQuando mixtus cali… & fractus panis percipit verbum Dei, fit Eucharistia sanguinis & corporis Christi, ex quibus augetur & consistit carnis nostrae substantia. Idem l. 5. c. 4.When the Cup mixed, and the bread broken receiueth the word of God, it becommeth the Eucharist of the body and blood of Christ, of which the substance of our bodies groweth and consisteth. rIdem ibid.Now how deny they the flesh to be capable of life eternall, that is nourished with Christs body and blood? And againe, sEa dispositio quae est secundum hominem, quae ex carnibus & neruis & ossibus consistit, de calice, qui est sanguis eius nutritur, & de pane qui est corpus eius augetur. Ibid.That part of man that consisteth of flesh, sinewes and bones, is nourished by the cup that is his blood, and groweth, or is encreased by the bread that is his body. The same with that, which out of Iustine wee shall hereafter further consider of, that tEx foreign. Iustin. apolog. 2,our flesh and blood are nourished by the Eucharisticall foode by a change thereof, that is, it being changed and turned into them. But to say so uEucharistia nutriri corporis nostri substantiam nih…l fingi potest absurdius. Bellarm. de Euchar. l. 2 c 4.of the very body and blood of Christ is, by these mens owne grants, most absurd. That in the Eucharist therefore that Irenaeus, and before him Iustine, speake thus of, is not the very flesh and blood of Christ it selfe, but xOfferimus ei, non quasi indigenti, sed gratias agentes donationi eius, & sanctificantes creaturam. Irenaeus l. b. 4. cap. 34.the creature sanctified, as he himselfe tearmeth it; or yPrimitias earum quae sunt eius creaturatum offerentes.the first-fruits of Gods creatures, which in way of thankefulnesse, zOfferens ei cum gratiarum actione ex creatura eius. Ibid.with thankesgiuing, he saith, they offer vntounto God; why so tearmed, is out of Augustine and others shewed else-where.
The third allegation is (as he saith) out of aPatres in votis primi Niceni Consilii.the voices of the Fathers in the first Nicene Councel. Where I might well out of Cardinal Baeronius except, that there are bBaron. annal. tom. 3. anno 325. num 62. & 63.no… Acts of that first Nicene Councel now extant: and that the worke out of which this allegation is taken, is cIde ex Photio, ibid. et annal. tom. 6. anno 496.no record of those Acts, but a story onelyonly of that Councell, written by one that liued long after it, dBaron ibid. & Greg. de Valent. de transubstan. l. 2. c. 7.whom they themselues account to be but a sorry obscure fellow, and one of no great credite. But let the Author, or the Relator rather, passe; and let vsus heare his relation. Those holy Confessors (saith hee) will vsus at the diuine Table not to regard onelyonly bread and wine proposed, but to eleuate our minde by faith, and be holde on the holy Table the Lambe of God, &c. by Priests vnbloodily sacrificed; and receiuing his body and blood to beleeue them to be symboles and pledges of our resurrection. Heere is nothing at all that any way hurteth our cause. First, they acknowledge “foreignbread to be and abide in the Euchaerist: which these men vtterly deny. Secondly, they will vsus *foreignnot basely to regard therein the bread and cup, or the elements onelyonly. And the very same in the same place of Baptisme they say, that eforeign. Gelas. Cyzic de act. Conc. Nic. diatyp 4.wee must not so much regard in it the water that wee see, as the power of God accompanying it; of which wee shall speake more vponupon another the like occasion fDiuis. 8. sect. 4.hereafter. Thirdly they will vsus gforeign. &c. Ibid. diatyp. 5.to lift vp our minde, and by faith to consider (for so their words are) the Lambe of God lying on the Table. And by faith we grant that hee is not seene and considered onelyonly, but receiued also in the Eucharist. Fourthly, they say, not (as this man translateth it) that hee is vnbloodily there sacrificed, but that hee is hforeign. Ibid.without sacrificing there sacrificed; that is not really, but iMysticè immolatur, & in mysterio Christi passio traditur. Paschas. Pp. apud Grat▪ de cons. dist. 2. c. Iteratur.mystically and symbolically sacrisiced; or kNon rei veri…te, sed significante mysterio. Aug. ibid. c. Hoc est.not in truth of the thing, but in a mystery signifying the same: as out of Pope Pascasius and Augustine in their Canons themselues speake. Fiftly, they say, that wee receiue his bodie and blood in the Encharist; yea they are reported to say (which hee omitteth here) that wee doe lforeign.truely receiue them: which that we doe truely also and effectually (according to our doctrine) though spiritually and not corporally, hath mDiscourse Argument …. Answer to Obiection.already beene shewen, and shall nDiuisiō 12.in his due place againe bee further confirmed. And lastly, that these are oforeign.symboles or pledges of our resurrection; which how they was are was before shewed out of Tertullian, who pCaro abluiter, vngitur, signatur, manuum impositione adumbratur, corpore & sanguine Christi vescitur, &c. Tertul. de resur. carn.from those Sacraments and sacred rites and exercises in generall (as well other as these) that the body partaketh in, draweth rQuam Deus sacramentis suis disciplinis que vestiuit, cuius munditias amat, castigationes probat, passiones adpreciar, haeccine non resurget? Ibid.Arguments to confirme the faith of the resurrection of it.
The next allegation is out of S. Ephrem, whose both praises and speeches he hath borrowed from sBella. de Euchar. l. 3 c. 19.Bellarmine: which Bellarmine when hee hath cited, addeth withall in a brauery, as if the proofes were so pregnant that there were no gainesaying of them, tIdem ibid.To this testimonie our aduersaries neither doe answer, nor indeede can answer ought. That none had then answered, was not much to be maruelled: as uHarding answer to Iewel. art. 10. Sect 6.Harding saith of their Cyrill; few had yet the q Sacrificia Deo grata de bonis carnis adolentur Deo.sight of him. One of that name indeed wrote many things xHieron. in catolog. Script.in the Syriacke tongue long since, hauing no skill at all in the Greeke. And vnderunder his name our Popish Fatherbreeders hauehave of late set out a many of Sermons and Treaeises, that hauehave no testimonie at all from antiquity the most of them; translated (as they tell vsus) out of Greeke, which hee good man neuer spake; quoting some of them Greeke Authors at large, whom hee neuer vnderstood; wanting all of them that aA cumen sublimis ingen i. Hieron. catal. scrsubtilty and sublimitie of wit, that Ierome commendeth in Ephrems workes, and bHieron. ibid. & Sozom. hist. l. 3. c. 16.appeared euen in the trarslations of them, as both hee and others affirm of them; very sorry and silly things a great part of them; not free from grosse vntruths and cIn his last Will and Testament, that he neuer in all his life spoke foolish word, nor cursed any one, nor was contentious, &c. And yet the direct contrary in his Relation to the Monks of his Con…ersion.contradictions, yea and ridiculous too, if not impious assertions; as that dSaluete omnes Sancti, saluete Apostoli, Prophetae, &c. De poenit. c. 7.the damned spirits in hell salute all the Saints in y foreign. Theodoret. hist. l 4. c. 19. & Sozom. l. 3. c. 16.heauen, and by name the Apostles, Prophets, and Martyrs, the Patriarches, Monkes, and the Uirgin Mary: and lastly their eTot ferè mutationes, inuersiones, & additiones, dum iste omittit quae ille habet, & contra, quot verba. Riuet. specim. Criti. l. 3. c. 21.seuerall editions of them so chopped and changed, mangled and made vp againe, cut off or pieced out, as they pleased that had the breeding of them, that scarce any one of them is any whit like another. The testimonies cited out of him could not be answered, before the Author himselfe was hatched, and his workes abroad in mens hands, that they might bee seene and knowne what they were. And now that they are seen and known what they are, they appeare plainely to be such, that they are not worthy of any answer. Vnlesse it bee deemed equall that wee bee tied to answer to eueryevery saying that is alleadged out of any counterfeite, that they shall at any time thrust out with the glorious title of some Ancient Father clapt on his Frontispice. And yet neither are this Authors wordes (what euer he be) by the Cardinals good leaue, for all his great bragge, so pregnant and full for them that no answer can be giuen to them. He saith that the mysteries of Christ are most admirable and inscrutable: and who denieth it? this follow himselfe fDiuision. 12.bringeth in Caluin and Beza saying the same: and that men ought not to gCuriosè rimari.pry ouer curiously into them: wherein not we, but their *Qui tamen ipse in Eccles. Hierar. c. 2. foreign.S. Dennis is faulty, & their hVide Eras. in moria, & in enchirid. Sarcer. de vanit. Schol. Theolog. Statum lacessunt omnipollentis Dei calumniosis litibus: Fidem mintuis dissecant ambagibus: Vt quis que lingu… nequior; Soluunt ligant que quaestionū vincula Persyllogismos Plectiles Quid non libido mentis humanae stru…t? Quid non malo…um prutiat? Prudent. apotheos.Schoolemen who with their wanton wit hauehave therein exceeded all bounds as well of modestie as of measure: *Pa…ticipa corpori Domini tui fide.that we partake with our Lords immaculate bodie by faith: (for so in Uossius his edition are his wordes distinguished) which we may well without any such corporall presence of it, as iSee Diuision 12. num. 2.by their owne Authors is confessed: that kCertum quod agnum ipsum integrum comedis.wee must be assured that we eate the Lambe himselfe whole: which is contrary, not to our doctrine, who say and shew euidently, that lSee Diuision 6. Sect. 6.the Fathers did as much that liued euen before Christ was incarnate, but to mIbid. Sect. 1. num. 4.the doctrine of their Pope Nicholas, as else-where is shewed. So that here is nothing that we need so much to stick at, or that should be deemed so vnanswerable: vnlesse he wil presse vsus with that that followeth, that nIgnem & spiritum mā ducandum ac bibendū praestitit nobis, corpus sci…. & sanguinem suum. Ephrē. ibid.Christ giueth vsus fire to feed on, when hee giueth vsus his body: as Chrysostome saith sometime that oChrysost, de Euchar. in encaen.fire floweth from the Lords table, and it is a coale of fire that wee receiue in the Eucharist. Which if they will expound figuratinely and spiritually, as I suppose they must needs, let them giuegive vsus the like liberty to vnderstand the former wordes in like manner. I will adde only and so leaue this Ephrem, what in the very same discourse himselfe saith: pQuaenam sit ista potio at que perceptio disc…re nostrum est. Ephrem de non scrutā nat. Dei.what this potion and perception is (saith he) it is our part to learne: (And it is lawfull then belike, yea and our dutie too, to make some kinde of inquiry into it.) Marke diligently, how Christ taking bread into his hands, qBenedixit & fregit in figuram corporis sui.blessed it, and brake it, for a figure of his immaculate body; and how hee rIn figuram sanguinis sui benedixit. ib.blessed the Cup, for a figure of his blood. Which wordes (I take it) encline rather to our doctrine then to theirs. And yet further in the same Treatise: sFidei oculis &c. Dei agnū sincere intuetur.With the eyes of faith, when like light it shineth bright in a mans heart, doth he cleerly see the Lambe of God, that was slaine for vsus, and that hath giuen vsus his holy and immaculate bodie tVt eo perpetuo vescamur.perpetually to feede vponupon, and to partake of vntounto remission of sinnes. uSi quis hunc side… oculum possider, patē ter & lucidè con…picit Dominum.This eye of faith he that hath, doth cleerely and openly see the Lord, and xFide agni immaculati corpus manducat & sanguinem bibit.by a sure and full faith eateth of the bodie of that immaculate Lambe, the onelyonly begotten sonne of the heauenly Father, and drinketh his blood, &c. By faith (saith hee) wee see the Lambe of God, (as expounding that that was said out of the storie of the Nicene Councell before) and by faith wee seede on him, and his bodie and blood, and partake of him, perpetually; and not in the Eucharist onelyonly. Which as it fitteth not their orall manducation, which without faith may bee effected, so it agreeth well with that spirituall feeding, that we expound our Sauiours wordes of. So little doth this their Ephrem further or auaile them in this Argument.
Lastly, for the high tearmes and stately titles that the Ancient Fathers giuegive the Eucharist; let him but compare them with sforeign. Dionys. hier. eccles. c. 2. Punici Christiani Baptis. salutem, Sacramentum corporis Christi vitam vocant. Aug. de pecc. mer. l. 1. c. 24.those that they giuegive to its elder sister, the other Sacrament of Baptisme, and I suppose hee will finde little oddes betweene either. OnelyOnly for what hee saith of their affirming that the Angels adore it: let the places bee produced, and they shall then bee answered. That they are present oft, (and if present, no doubt present with much reuerence) as well at the celebration of the Lords Supper, as at other parts of Gods worship; and zHeb. 1. 6that they adore him who is therein represented, (which is all that Chrysostome saith in the places produced out of him by *De Euchar. l. 2. c. 22.Bellarmine) we deny not: and of Baptisme in effect their “In praefat. ad Catechis.Cyrist saith as much. But that they doe adore as y 1 Cor. 11. 10.God a piece of bread or a sorry wafer cake, as the Papists doe in their Masse, therein committing as grosse idolatry (it is *Talis error qualis in orbe terrarum nunquā visus vel auditus fuit. Tolerabilior est enim error eorum qui pro Deo colunt statuam aureā aut argenteam, aut alterius materiae imaginem, quomodo Gentiles Deos suos venerabantur, vel pannum ubrum in hastam eleuatum, quod narratur de Lappis, vel viua animalia vt quondam Aegyptii, quàm eorum qui frustum panis, &c. Coster. Iesuit, enchirid. de Transubstan.their owne grant, if it be not Christ, which we well know it is not) as euer any was in the world, that we vtterly deny, nor will this Defendant euer be able to produce any one Orthodox Father that euer so said. And thus much for his allegations, though produced here to no purpose, to disprooue (as they might well enough without hurting of vsus) no assertion of ours, but a fiction of his owne framing; nor was it necessarie therefore that they should hauehave beene answered. Let vsus now proceede to the next part of his Answer.