Two Treatises Against the Papists, Book 2 · Chapter 12
The heretikes of our time and country, be yet further vrged vvith the practise of prayers for the deceased, their contrary communion is compared vvith the olde vsage of Celebration: They are ashamed of the first original of their Christian faith, they are vveary of their ovvne seruice, they are kepte in ordre by the vvisedome of the Ciuile magistrates, and are forced flatly to refuse all the doctors. CAP. XII.
1 THe chiefe argument, that the Church of God vsed in olde time against Pelagius the enemy of Gods grace, was this: that at the holy altar the Priest prayed to God, for to conuert heretikes and infidells to the faith, and euill liuers wicked conuersation to vertue and honesty: the which prayers had bene to no purpose, if the grace of God had not borne the principall stroke in the chaunging of mans hearte. But being assured of this as a grounde, that the prayer of the Priest in the whole Churches name at the altar, can not but beare singular strength and trueth, it is necessarily concluded, that seeing the publike minister so prayeth, that we must needes beleue, that God hath mans hearte in his hande, and may turne it to the belefe of his worde, or louelove of his will, as he liketh and listeth: notwithstanding the perfect freedome of mans will, which by Gods grace is neuer perished, but alwayes perfected. And in this assured foundation of the publike prayers, S. Augustine who then was the souldier of grace, so triumphed against one Vitalis a Pelagian, that he ringeth him this peale, Exerce contra orationes ecclesiae disputationes tuas, Epist. 107. contra Vital.& quā do audis sacerdotem dei ad altare exhortantem populum dei orare pro incredulis, subsanna pias voces ecclesiae, & dic te non facere quod hortatur: & homo in Carthagiensi eruditus ecclesia, etiam beatissimi Cypriani librum de oratione dominica condemna. Holde on fellow, exercise thy contentious talke against the vsuall prayers of Gods Church, and whē thou hearest the Priest of God at his altar exhort the people to praye for the misbeleuers, scoffe at the holy wordes, and make him aunswere, thou wilt not pray as he biddes thee: And being brought vp in the Church of Carthage, condemne withall, S. Cyprians worke vponupon our Lordes prayer, wherein he teacheth the same. I tary nowe the longer on this point, that thou mayest learne to kepe an heretike at the bay: and to fasten thy stroke so surely vponupon him, that which waye so euer he shifte, he shall beare thy blowe vponupon his necke and sho…lders. It is not for our cause taken in hand, that I now so much trauell, for that is longe sith made sure enough, for all the deuills in Hell, or their followers in earth. But I woulde in this one example of praying for the deade, geue the studious a tast of all such wayes, as the trueth of all other pointes in controuersy, may be both surely defended, and so plainly proued and vpholden, that the aduersary shall not be able to say baffe vntounto any one of the least of all the groundes, wherevpon Gods trueth standeth. Handeling then our good men as S. Augustine did the like, say to them boldely: that the same Church which exhorteth the people to pray for the misbeleuers, doth geue vsus example to pray for the soules departed: Vitalis and Pelagius were heretikes for withstanding the one, they must needes be as very heretikes for refusing the other. It was the greatest extremitie that Pelagius coulde be driuen to by force of Augustines argument, to mocke at the priests prayer made at Gods altar, and that which then was so foule an absurditie for those false teachers, can it be borne out of ours with honestie? Vitalis the Pelagian had a foule foyle by S. Augustine, …hen he charged him with the contempt of S. Cyprians authoritie Byshop of Carthage, being him selfe a …hield of the same Church. And shall they goe away so smouthly nowe a dayes, not only with contempe of their owne English patrons and Apostles, but with impudent deniall of all the doctors at once, that euer were gydes of Gods Church sith Christes faith was taught? It was of Augustine counted a singular arrogancy not to praye in that forme as Gods Church and ministers at the altar both praye them selues, and exhorte other to pray: and shall it be such prayse for our preachers to erect a new seruice to be checke mate with the olde, to controele the rites and vsages of solemne supplication in all countries Christianed, and with the true worship to banish together our fathers faith?
CAP. XII.
1 IN this chapter, where he vomiteth out nothing but rayling and lying, he doth rather bewraye his owne infirmitie, then touch the strength of our cause. For being trobled with a sore laxe of the tongue, which I take to be a like disease in ye mouth that it is in ye wombe, he gusheth out nothing but bragging, and faceing, scolding, and sclaundering, tauntinge and trifling. And therefore I will but breefely confute his vanity and turne him to his matches to contend in that kind of quarreling. The chiefe argument (he sayeth) that the Church in times past and Augustine the Churches champion, vsed against the Pelagians, was to shewe that their heresie was contrary to the publicke prayers of the Church: what shoulde I vse many wordes? I appeale to the iudgement of all Papistes, that hauehave not loste all vse of naturall reason, and indifferent iudgement, which either hauehave reade, or will take paines to reade, so many workes as Augustine did write against the Pelagians, whether of an hundreth arguments, that he vseth, this insultation be not one of the feeblest: which tooke no holde of the Pelagians by force of trueth that is in it, but by their owne concession and graunt, of that prayer to be godly and them to be of the Church that so prayed. But now the controuersie is not onelyonly of the substance of doctrine, but of the Church it selfe also. And therefore when Augustine had to doe with the Donatistes that challenged the Church vntounto them selues, he setteth all other tryalles aside, and prouoketh onelyonly to the scriptures. Therefore (M. Allen) if you wil teach your schollers to kepe vsus at the baye as heretikes, you must not teach them to barke and baule, nothing but the Church the Church, like tinckers curres, but you must instructe them to open conningly out of the scriptures how our doctrine is cōtrary to the trueth, and yours agreable to the same. I do not blame you if you would faine hauehave that argument of the Church, without tryall which is the Church, to take place, for it woulde ease you and your fellowes of much paine, it woulde serue you both for a sworde and a buckler, all other bookes, arguments and reasons, might be layed a side and keepe silence. The Church sayth it, and we are the Church, therefore it is true. The scriptures them selues are altogether needelesse, where this argument may stand for payment. This is so plaine a proofe, that the aduersaries shall not be able to saye baffe vntounto it. In deede they were but sory whelpes that could not say baffe to the bleating of such a calfe as you are, which thinke that such a foolish cauill, can carry credit with them that hauehave any cromme of brayne in their heads. The Church prayeth so, therefore it is true. Nay Syr, you pray, and practise to controle the word of God, therefore you are not the Church of God. Proue that you doe not so, or else prate as long as you wil. And thinke not to dorre vsus with Cyprians name, where as if you had his iudgement, we might be bold to say as the same Augustine hath giuen vsus example: Nos nullam Cypriano facimus iniuriam, cum eius quaslibet literas, à canonica diuinarum scripturarum auctoritate distinguimus. Neque enim sine causa tam salubri vigilantia canon Ecclesiasticus constitutus est, ad quem certi Prophetarum & Apostolorum libri pertinent, quos omninò iudicare non audeamus, & secundum quos de caeteris literis, vel fidelium vel infidelium liberè vindicemus. Contra Cresconium Gram. lib. 2. cap. 31. We doe Cyprian none iniurie at all, when we put difference betwene any of his writinges, from the canonicall authoritie of the holy Scriptures. For not without a cause with so holesome diligence is the ecclesiasticall canon appoynted, vntounto which certeyne bookes of the Prophets and Apostles doe perteyne, which we dare not iudge at all, according to which we may freely iudge of all other writings either of faithfull men or infidells. And againe in the 32. chapter. Ego huius epistolae auctoritate non teneor, quia literas Cypriani non vt Canonicas habeo, sed eas ex canonicis considero, & quod in eis diuinarum scripturarum auctoritati congruit, cum laude eius accipio, quod autem non congruit, cum pace eius respuo. I am not bound to the authoritie of this epistle, because I count the letters of Cyprian not as canonicall scriptures, but I consider them by the canonicall scriptures, and what so euer I finde in them agreeable to the authoritie of holy Scriptures, I take it with his prayse, that which agreeeth not, I reiect it with his leaue. Iudge here (gentle reader) whether Augustine would or should with any indifferency, bind either men to the absolute admitting of Cyprians authoritie, wherwith he would not be holden him self, and know Allen for a Iangler on Augustines wordes against the meaning of Augustine, or any reasonable man.
2 I would learne by what Churches example they hauehave lefte out of their newe fangled phantasticall seruice, the offering and praying for the departed. One of them was so impudent, to say in an open booke that the Lyturgies of the fathers made all against the Catholikes, & for the proofe of their false assertions. VVherein sir I pray you tell me? I woulde call you by your name, if I knew who you were there you were ashamed of your owne name,I gesse it vvas M. Pilkinton of Duresme. therefore ye shall lacke the glory of your assertion. But who so euer you be, I pray you what affinitie betwixt their office of celebration and yours, doe you finde? they offer the holy hoste, they worship it, they shewe it, they pray vntounto it, which of all these doe you? they blesse it with the signe of the holy crosse, they practise the action vponupon an altar, how well follow you these? they pray for the deade, they make inuocation solemnely to sainctes, they ioyne with all catholike Churches in the worlde, where is your cause here amended, or ours not plainely proued? If their seruice like you so wel, or at least better thē S. Gregories Masse, you might with more honestie hauehave chosed for any one of them, then hauehave forged a newe one of your owne: which in deede is directly repugnant to all other rites in the Christian world. VVhichWhich you may well terme the seruice of contradiction and damnation, as one that neither communicateth with the sainctes in heauen, with the soules in purgatory, nor with the faithfull a liue. And being ashamed of the Latine Church, you chalenge an other origine of faith out of the Easte parte: as though your matter were well amended, if you might shake of that faith and worship which our countrie in her conuersion first receiued, and in which till this daye she hath happely lyued, and make the heade of our holy tradition vncertaine, by referring vsus vntounto an vnknowen origine.
2 He would know by what churches example, we hauehave left out of our seruice, which he tormeth like him self, prayers and sacrifice for the deade, as though he hath not bene often tolde by the example of Gods Church▪ whereof w… hauehave sure warrant out of Gods word by example of the eldest Church, and nearest to the Apostles tymes, as we hauehave shewed out of Iustinus Martyr and Tertullian before he became an heretike. And as for him, that affirmed the old Liturgies, to make against your masse, though he be better able to aunswere for him selfe, yet hauehave I shewed also, that there are none so full of blasphemy, as your masse is. And it is easie to be gathered by Epiphanius, that the olde forme of liturgie was, but to make mention of the deade, to hauehave them in remembraunce. And because they vsed to make memory of all sortes of men that were deade in Christ, he expoundeth it according to the errour of his time, that this memory was a prayer for the sinners, for the iust, as Patriarkes, Prophets, &c. a signification that they were inferior to Christ. A simple cause why they should be remembred, but this shift he is driuen vntounto, because he did not cō sider, that the memory and oblation which the olde fathers made for all departed in Christ, was a sacrifice of thankes giuing and not of prayers for them. The same order & errour doe all the later liturgies follow, making memory & prayers for all them that are departed in the faith. In the memory of all departed they follow the olde order, in praying for all, they follow the latter error, which had chaunged the sacrifice of thankes giuing into the sacrifice of prayer. But herein they declared, that they had not yet generally receiued your newe doctrine of purgatory, because they prayed not as you doe, for them onelyonly that are in purgatory, to whom onelyonly you confesse the prayers to be needefull and profitable, but for all that are departed in the fayth of Christ from the beginning of the worlde. And now Syr I hauehave shewed, wherein they make against you. But where as you taunt at the author of that booke, because he setteth not his name vntounto it, you shew your witte, & bewray your disease. You can neither tell what to speak, nor yet how to hold your peace. In the margent you gesse it was M. Pilkington of Duresme: you would faine hauehave such a man to be your aduersary, that though you tooke the foyle, y…t you might boast, that you were so bold as to fight with him. But it is an easyer matter for such a desperate dicke to beginning a fraye, then to ende it. If I may be as bolde to gesse as you: I gesse that he which made that lusty chalenge of the Papist against the Protestant, promising to recant at the ende of eueryevery article, if he colde be aunswered, was such a tryed Thraso as M. Allen? if you aske me what is the grounde of my gesse, to omit the stile somewhat like, I will aunswere as one in Plautus doth: Credo te esse ab illo, nam ita nugas blattis. I take it to be euen you, you are so full of bracing and facing. But who so euer he was, was he ashamed of his name because he set not his name vntounto it? and was the man of Chester ashamed of his name because he setteth it not to his treatise? Finally be all those Papistes ashamed of their names, which hauehave written so many petty pamphlettes to be caried abrode in Popish fellowes pocketts? O intemperate tonge, which can not spare such tauntes, as redounde to him selfe and his owne good maisters reproch. Your lyes of offering, worshipping, and praying to the hoste be reproued alredy, you say we might with more honesty hauehave coped for one of those Lyturgies, if we liked not Gregories Masse, rather then to hauehave forged a new. I aunswere we hauehave with more honesty reformed our Lyturgie according to the worde of God, and example of the oldest Church, then Gregory, Basill, Chrysostome, (if they were theirs) or who so euer were authors of those Liturgies, did leaue the auncient Lyturgies that were vsed in the Church before their time, because they did not sufficiently expresse their errors and superstition, and forge them newe of their owne contrary to the worde of God. And where as you prate of the Latine Church and the East parte, we neither refuse the Latine Church while it was pure, nor receiue the East Church where in it was corrupt, but the scripture is a rule vntounto vsus to iudge all Churches by. Although it were easy to proue by that cōtrouersie, which the Britaynes and the Scottes had against the Saxons, about the celebration of Easter, that our countrie first receiued their conuersion from the East Church, whose ceremonie they did then defend, euen as the East Church did longe before against Victor Bishoppe of Rome. By which it appeareth that this lande did neuer receiue the doctrine and ceremonies of the Latine Church before the time of the Saxons. And whereas you slaunder vsus for referringe our faith to an vncertaine and vnknowen Origine, the contrary is manifest, when we referre it to no iudgement, or company of men, but to the authoritie of Gods worde and all them that will be subiect therevnto. But I tarye to longe in these trifles.
3. EueryEvery man in the primitiue Church counted the spring of his faith more pure, and a great deale more cleare, if he coulde against an heretike declare by good testimony that his belefe did at length by iust counte, fall into the Romane Church. So doth Irenaeus against the Valentinians, so doth Cyprian against the Nouatians, so doth Tertullian and Vincentius against all heretikes, so doth Augustine and Optatus against the Donatistes, so doth Hyerom and all the reste, against the Arians. All these thought they had a great vauntage, if they could by plaine accompt proue against an heretike that their doctrine ishued from the Byshop of Rome.De prescri. aduers. haereti. Goe whether thou wilt (saith Tertulian) and thou shalt finde some Apostolike seat to instruct thy conscience: thou hast harde by the Philippos, or Ephesus, or Rome, Epist. 165.and there loe fetch we the authority of our faith. S. Augustine that knewe best how to fetche an heretike ouer the coles, vrgeth him euer to reduce his doctrine to some Bishop of Rome: when he had him once at that strait, then loe, he goeth through the whole ranke of holy Byshoppes by name, to the nomber of fourty well neare. Bring me once an euident declaration that your faith ishued from any one byshop of that Sea, and then you may passe throw the longe line of that succession with out bracke, or any rupture in the worlde. I coulde make accompt (sayth Irenaeus) of many successions of Apostolike Churches: but that were to longe, only Rome shall serue, that is the greatest, the auncientest, and best knowen, and by the tradition of that Church confundimus omnes eos, Lib. 3. cap. 3we vtterly confounde all heretikes. It is a straunge thinge, that the fathers hauing store of Apostolike successions, did euer chuse out for the warrant of their faith from amongest the reste, the Roman Seate: And now when there is no apostolike Church left in the whole worlde but it,Note. that they will seeke to Churchies whereof there is neither certainty, nor succession: when by plaine open dealing we may reduce, and must needes referre our faith to that, which was euer of all other most farre from falshoodde.
3 EueryEvery man in the primitiue Church, compted the springe of his faith more pure, if he coulde deriue it out of the holy Scriptures, and shew the continuance thereof, in any of the Apostolicke Churches whereof Rome was but one. And condemned all heresies of nouelty or later string, which coulde not bring the first author of their heresies, eyther from any of the Apostles: or apostolicke men which cōtinued in the doctrine of the Apostles: as Tertullian doth in that booke De praescriptionibus aduersus haereses. The like doth Irenaeus. And that these men specially named the Church of Rome, it was because the Church of Rome at that time as it was founded by the Apostles, so it continued in the doctrine of the Apostles. And these heretikes for the most parte had bene sometimes of the Church of Rome, as Valentinus, Marcion, Nouatus. But none of these fathers, as M. Allen woulde hauehave it appeare, was such a sclaue to the Church of Rome, that what so euer pleased the Byshoppes of that Sea, they were ready to accept. For then woulde not Irenaeus so sharpely hauehave reproued Victor, as Eusebius declareth of him Lib. 5. cap. 25. Cyprian woulde not hauehave taken vp Cornelius and Stephanus as appeareth by his epistles. Hieronym woulde not hauehave bene so bolde to call Rome the purple whore of Babylon Praefat. ad Paulinū in lib. Didym. Nor to compare the bishoppe of Eugubium with the bishop of Rome Euagrio, nor to make the Church of England equall with the Church of Rome: Nec iam altera Romanae vrbis ecclesia, altera totius orbis existimanda est. Et Gallia, & Britania, & Africa & Bersis & Oriens & Indiae & omnes barbarae nationes vnum Christum adorant, vnam obseruant regulam veritatis. Si authoritas quaeritur, orbis maior est vrbe. Neither must we thinke that there is one Church of the citye of Rome an other of all the worlde beside. Both France and Britayne and Africa, and Persia, and the Easte, and India, and all barbarous nations worship one Christ, keepe one rule of trueth. If authoritie be sought, the world is greater then one citye &c. Loe Syr, here is a Church and christianity, and a rule of trueth, with out the byshoppe of Rome, with out the Church of Rome, yea, and contrary to the church of Rome. For to them that alleged the custome of the church of Rome, he sayth: Quid mihi profers vnius vrbis cōsuetudinem? what bring you me the custome of one citye? and Augustine him selfe, that knwe so well to fetch an heretike ouer the coles, I trowe fetched Zosimus, Bonifacius, and Coelestinus byshoppes of Rome meetly well ouer the coles, when he and his fellowes the byshoppes of Africa, tooke them with plaine forgerie, and falsification of the canons of the councell of Nice. Consilio Milebitano & Africano. As for that which M. Allen compteth so strange, is for lacke of skill and right iudgement. For the same cause that moued those auncient fathers to appeale to the iudgment of the church of Rome, moueth vsus now to condemne the church of Rome of heresie. wherefore did they reuerence the church of Rome? Aske Tertullian, he aunswereth because it had by succession reteined euen vntill his dayes, that faith which it did first receiue of the Apostles: Therefore it was a true Church, therefore it was an apostolicke Church, which because it doth not nowe, neither hath done of many yeares, and hath nothing to boast of, but the empty names of many good bishops, but thrise as many more of cursed Antichristes, therefore it is nowe a false church, and a company of heretikes, departed from the auncient Romaines true and apostolicke faith.
4 Bring my faith once to S. Gregory, and the very streame shall driue me to S. Peter and Paule, maugre all their beardes. In which ordre of Byshops, finde me one that set forth by decree any practise of contrary doctrine, to that which his next predecessor did before him mainteine, & I will go seeke with the stray, a newe mother Church to founde my faith vponupon. If all be in this succession salfe and sounde, what a folly were it to forsake our owne mother, and spring of our belefe, to seeke other which hauehave often erred when they stoode, and nowe be almost wholy decaide. But yet it is wisedome for false teachers with all force to flie from so greate light, as maye arise to the trueth by the recognising of that sounde succession, and going the iuste contrary way from the olde doctors faith, it is not to be thought straunge, that they directly seeke to ouerthrowe that bulwarcke, which they euer leaned vntounto in the stormes of schisme and heresie. The shrewes do knowe full well the might of trueth in that Seate and succession, to hauehave beaten downe all their forefathers, the heretikes of all agies. They feare their fall, whose steppes they follow. They vtter much malice, & torment them selfe in eueryevery sermon in vaine: that Church feeleth no sore, but in sorow of compassion towardes her forsakers: she hath bidden greater stormes then this, first by tyraunts, then by heretikes, last and most by the euill life of her owne Bishoppes. In all which she yet standeth, and euer riseth to honour, as she is most impugned. Their owne preaching hath singularly opened the might of God in the defense of that Seate of vnity. VVhen they first beganne to touche and taunt the Pope in eueryevery sermon, in eueryevery playe, in booke and balate, men that before liuing in faithfull simplicitie much medled not with his matters, nor often hearde of his name, beganne straight upon their busy ralinge, to conceiue by reasonable discretion, that there lay some greate grounde of matter and weight of trueth vponupon that point which they coulde not digest in so many yeares bauling and barking at his name: they saw the Pope euer in their way, neuer out of their mouth, and they doubted not but that singular hatred grew vponupon some great importance: and so admonished luckely by the aduersaries, they sought the bottom of that perfecte and deepe hatered, and found that it was the olde sore of the Arians, and disease of the Donatistes, and common to all heretikes: they perceiued by S. Cyprian that the first attempte of such men,De simplicit. praelatorum. was to driue awaye the pastor, that they might with out resistance deuour and destroie the flocke. And which was the pricke of all their endeuours, to take from vsus the acknowledging of the great and singular benefite of our conuersion to the faith: that in stopping the heade of that condeth, and plentifull well of our faith, they might in heate of contention and heresie, casely drie vp the whole ishue therof.By heretiks preaching many are become Catholikes. And this earnest consideration causeth many at this daye to forsake their heresies: and to be a greate deale mo at this time, which know the trueth of this matter, then when they beganne first to preach thereof.
4 Bring this mans faith to Gregory, & then the streame shall driue him to Peter and Paule, Nay M. Allen bring you your faith from Peter and Paule by good testimony of their holy writings, and then you shall not neede to rowe in Cockelaurels bote, neither with streame nor against it. But you offer vsus fayre play, we must bring you one Bishop of Rome, that did set forth by decree, any practise of contrary doctrine, to that which his next predecessor did before him mainteyne, and you will seeke a newe mother Church. If I should bring you Sabinianus which controlled the decrees of Gregory: or Stephanus that condemned the decrees of Formosus, from which time the story testifieth, that it grewe vntounto a custome, that eueryevery Bishop would cōdemne his predecessors decrees, you woulde aunswere that all this was without your compasse. So will you say if I name Honorius, who was an heretike of the sect of the Monothelites, condemned both by his successor and by a generall councell. I bring no small proofes M. Allen, but such as you can not with for greater. Looke in the sixt generall councell, holden at Constantinople. Acti. 13. there shall you reade that the decretall epistle of Honorius whereby he confirmed Sergius in his heresie, was redde, and burned, & Honorius him selfe anathematized, as an heretike. Loke a litle further vntounto the 18. action, there shall you find the decretall epistle of Pope Leo the second, written to the councell wherein he condemneth Honorius his predecessor for an heretike, and his doctrine for heresie. But what say you to Liberius & Felix whereof eyther one, or as Ieronym affirmeth, both were Arians? how were their decrees liked of their successors? how did they allowe the decrees of their predecessors? Finally where as you say, that our earnest & often preaching against the Pope hath wonne you so many Catholikes, we will by Gods grace continue to gratifie you still by that meanes, and geue you good leaue when you hauehave counted your cardes, to boast of your winnings.
5 But I will not presse them ouer sore: suppose I graunt them that which they would so gladly winne: that we had not our faith first from Rome, though it be as false, as God is true. But suppose it were not so, and I geue you leaue to father your faith where you will. If it be not vponupon Latimer (whome a foolish fellowe, in the booke of conference betwixt Latimer and Ridley, termeth the English Apostle: as one more worthy of that name (as he sayth) then Augustine, but else where you will: and when you hauehave done, proue me that your mother Church prayeth not for the departed in her Masse and solemne seruice, and you shall be exalted vp for euer. And at your next chaunge frame your newe communion after that olde vsage on Gods blessinge: If you can finde any forme of celebration farre enough from ours, followe it and spare not.
But I am sure, you shall neuer be hable to finde any olde seruice in the worlde fit for your newe diet.Our Masse is all one vvith the Masses of a…l other cuntries and tymes. They be all to much like our Masse for your purpose, as in deede alone in eueryevery pointe of importance with ours. As the Churches to whome they belonged, perfectly before their decay, in faith and vnity agreed with ours.
5 Although we account Latimer for a worthy teacher, and more worthy of the name of an Apostle for his apostolike doctrine, then Augustine the Monke, yet builde we our faith (as you know) neither vponupon him, nor any other, but onelyonly vponupon the word of God. And as for our mother Church, is no certayne place, or company of men in any one place vponupon earth, but Ierusalem which is aboue, is mother of vsus all. Galat. 4. And who so euer were children of this Church, would neuer find fault with our communion, which can not be condemned by the worde of God, and therefore careth not for the comparison of the custome of other men which whether they vsed the like or not, in forme of wordes, which is not materiall, so they vsed not other substance of matter except they did it beside the word of God. How like your Masse is to other coūtry masses, when there was neuer any masse but yours, I leaue it to consider and compare to all them that had rather see the truth them selues, then to be deceiued by you.
6 I am sure when you can not like your owne communion, ye woulde not be pleaced with one of an others making. But an other you must needes hauehave, and further you must go from vsus, walke forwarde you will to the extreme ende of heresie, and vtter denying of Christianity. All the world can not stoppe your falling from the hill of Gods Church, till you come in the bottomlesse pit of Hell. I woulde be loth to sclaunder them with the brute of the worlde, which though it be in eueryevery mans mouth, that they like not this communion, yes vponupon that rumour I would not hauehave sayd so farre, but that they hauehave vttered their owne meaning, in a treatise of their owne making, in these wordes: In mariage as in all other thinge… beside, Against the Chester mā.we are but to much like vntounto them: that is our …ault generally that we differ not more from them in all our ministerie. These wordes vtter their griefe that they can got no further from vsus in their seruice: and that you be not deceiued, the author of this booke where this complainte is made, knoweth well the meaning of his fellowes herein, and how gladde they woulde be shiftinge forwarde. They sit on thornes till they be doing with a newe gise. It is no worse man then the B. of Duresme that taketh colde in so longe a stand of their communion. My simple head coulde not deuise how they might possibly go forwarde, and kepe them with in any bonde of Christianity. VVhat they caste in their braine for their further proceding I can not tell, the serpent is suttel, and our sinnes be greate.
6 If any man mislike the forme of our seruice, as not differing sufficiently from yours, he sheweth his greater zeale in detestation of your idolatry and blasphemy. In the meane time what neede this great wondring, for once or twise alteration in the forme, where the matter is still reteyned, when if we shall beleue your owne stories, your seruice hath not had much lesse then an hundreth innouations, so often as one peece or other was added or patched to it. And yet in this one cuntry of England, howe many diuerse formes of seruice had you? so that you could neuer grow to vniformitie? Yorke, Salesbury, Bangor, Hereford, &c.
7 I much maruaill not nowe, to see the temporall Magistrates of their wisedomes, to hedge these mens wantonnesse in all their ordre of life: for they are so dronken and drowned in heresie, that they hauehave no sense of common reason. VVhat a do had the magistrates to make these wylde men go in priestelike apparell, to kepe their Rotchettes, to obserue some steppe of antiquitie in their maners? How they were driuen to tempre their lustes in prouision for some ordrely choise of their wiues: that seeing them hauehave no respecte on what women they light,Looke the Iniunction for the mariage of Priestes & other thīgs. that by Iustices of peace yet, they might be bestowed, if not well, yet with their lesse dishonestie, vponupon persons not openly infamous. Such fellowes are more fit to be gouerned, then to beare rule ouer other: in whome without constraint you shall neither finde comelynesse in maners, ordre in life, nor constancy in religion. God of his mercye geue them some light to see their owne misery, and spirite of humilitie to subiect them selues in time to Gods Church, that is so carefull ouer them, though to their owne great harme, they so deadly hate her. They can showe no cause in the world, why they neede in any one pointe of all those which at this daye be in controuersie betwxit them and their owne mother, rather to credit their owne phantasies, then her graue authoritye: which onelyonly without farther questioning, with obediēt children maketh more, then all argument or eloquence of man, in the earth.
7 If the ciuill Magistrates hauehave thought good in some outward ceremony or vsage, to beare with the infirmitie of the weaker sort of your side, in hope to winne them, it is a small matter for you that are the obstinate of that secte to triumphe vponupon, when all your blasphemous doctrine is abolished, and nothing left but a fewe ragges of your robes to looke vponupon. And as for the iniunction for Priestes mariage, was either to stoppe your slaunderous mouthes, when godly ministers wiues should hauehave testimoy of their honestie by men of such credit, or else to bridle the lust of your owne tounebulls the popish Priestes, which when licence of whordom is denied them, and liberty to marry permitted them, would make no better choyse perhaps of their wiues, then they did before of their women. We can shew no cause in the world you say, why we neede in any one poynt of controuersie depart from your Church: yes M. Allen, this one cause shal serue for all, because your church is departed from the truth of Gods word, and dare not abide the tryall thereof, but will sitte like a proud dame in a chayre, & controll the Scriptures, the ordinance of Christ, and the commaundements of God him selfe. But how so euer you boast of her fast sitting, she shall downe, she shall downe, euen to the bottome of hell.
8 And for such as maye for their simplicitie be soone deceiued by following other mens errors, with whome the names of doctors, or the onelyonly bare bragge of scriptures, are as good as the allegation of places:The youngers, must thus pose their maisters. Let them aske of their teachers howe they can shifte them selfe when they see the practise of Gods Church generally so plaine for all Catholike assertions, as for the article of praying for the deade, amongest many other the like, is nowe before proued. Call vponupon them, and aske them in earnest, because it lyeth vponupon thy saluation, whether thou must giuegive any credit to the perpetuall agreement and consent of all auncient doctors? If they saye yea: desire them to aunswere first to all these places, so euidently confirming our purpose, that they can not abide any cloude or couer of mans sutteltye, for their shifting to any forged sense. If they can not, yet let them alleage some place of any auncient writer them selues, which do expressely denye purgatory or prayers for the deade: as we for the confirming therof hauehave done in plaine termes with out crafte or colour many. If they be not able to do so much, yet go further with them: aske them whether they hauehave any expresse wordes in scripture that denie prayers to be profitable for the deade, not by a fonde gesse of their owne heades, corrupt consciences, or preiudicate mindes, expounded to that purpose, but I say by expresse words: or at least (which is liberty enough) expounded for that meaning by any one man of all the antiquitie. If they can alleage thee but one worde of scripture construed of any one, I say in all ages, to confirme their vnderstanding to be currant, and not framed for their phantasie, to serue the necessity of their cause, be bolde to followe them. I woulde not put them to the paines to make discourse throughout all ages, churches, times, and doctors, as we hauehave done: but onelyonly let them to kepe their credit and scholars, and to saue their honesties, bring but one or two of all that euer wrote in the compasse of Gods Church, and thou maiest with lesse daunger, and better reason, follow their doctrine. But there is no one such place, I assure the good reader, neither in scripture, doctor, nor councell, nor countrie, nor age sith the worlde beganne. I will go so farre in this point: where there was euer steppe of any true worship of God, there was prayer founde for the dead also. They can not shew me any forme of ministration in the Christian world, that was approued, which hath it not expressely: if it be knowen that it was in deede the seruice of any auncient Church, not corrupted by them selues. The same I dare be bolde to auouch for the lawe of nature, and Moyses, because it is proued already. All their bragging of the example of the primitiue Church, the masses of other countries, of the doctors, of the scriptures, of the councells, is but an vntollerable delusion and abuse of the simplicity of such, as be not skillfull in the authors whome they name. For when the matter comes to an ishue, when they be harde holden, either in this or in any other matter: thē the doctors, (whom they chalenged before the simple for their partakers) were but men, then they might erre, then they hauehave learned onelyonly to credit the holy Scriptures, then there is nothing but Gods worde and booke with them: which els full faine would hauehave the doctors consent, out of whom it were but a meane place which they would not alleage for their purpose, if it might be founde. Then if deniall of all the doctors iudgements serue not their turne, In accusationem ipsarum sc…ipturarum conuertuntur: Irenaeus Lib. 3. cap. 2they will not sticke boldely to condemne the holy Scriptures with all.
8 Now the youngers must pose their maisters (as M. Allen a passing good Logician doth teach them) yea and that is more, he will teach vsus what to aunswere also, but sauing his wisedome, he must geue vsus leaue to aunswere for our selues. First if we be asked howe we can shifte our selues against the generall practise of Gods Church, for all popish assertions, and namely this of praying for the deade: we aunswere, that we deny the practise to be generall, because we finde it not in the holy Scriptures, nor in the most auncient writers, that lyued with in an hundreth yeares and more after the time of Christ. And to the particuler practise of the later times, we aunswere, that it is not sufficient to controll the auncient doctrine, and primer practise. If we be required to shew some place of any auncient writer, which denyeth purgatory or prayers for the deade, we hauehave already shewed that Augustine some time doth doubt whether there be purgatory, some time affirmeth there is no meane or thirde place, but heauen for the elect, and hell for the reprobate, likewise for praying or satisfying for the deade, we hauehave alleaged Cyprian and others: your owne common law, out of Hieronym, sayth, that the prayers of the liuing profit not the deade. 13. quaest. 2. In praesenti saeculo &c. In this present worlde, we knowe that one of vsus may be helped of an other, either by prayers or by counsells, but when we shoulde come before the iudgement seate of Christ, neither Iob nor Daniel nor Noe, can intreate for any man, but eueryevery man must beare his owne burthen. Yea Gelasius the Pope sayth, that no man can be absolued of the Pope after his death 24. q. 2. C. legatur. Wherefore serue the Popes pardons then? To that which is required of the expresse word of God, forbidding prayers for the deade, we aunswere, that all places of scripture, that forbidde prayers without fayth, forbidde prayer for the deade, for faith is not eueryevery mans vaine perswasion, but an assurance out of the worde of God, which because we can not hauehave in praying for the dead, therefore we are forbidden to praye for them. If it be against the hope of Christians to morne for the deade, much more it is against the fayth and hope of Christians to praye for them. For by our prayer we suppose them to be in misery whome the worde of God doth testifie to be in happines, to be at rest, to be with Christ, Iohn 17. Apoc. 14. And as for a place so expounded by an auncient writer, I will seeke no farther then the place of Hieronym euen now alleaged out of your owne canon lawe vppon 2. Cor. 5. referring the reader to many other places alleaged in this aunswere, as out of Cyprian, Origene and others, by which the intollerable lying, bragging, and rayling of this miscreant, shalbe better confuted, then by any contradiction of wordes. And where as he sayeth we chalenge the olde doctors before the simple, for our partakers, whether they be simple or wise before whom we speake, as we speake not alwayes before the simple onelyonly, but often times and commonly before as wise and well learned men as M. Allen, we neuer make any such challenge of them as the Papistes doe, which offer to stand to their iudgement in all thinges, and yet in most thinges yea in the cheefest pointes of religion, that be so in deede, or be so compted of them, they are contrary to the doctors and olde councells, for which cause, and not for confirmation of trueth, we alleage the authoritie of men, for we hauehave learned, as Augustine sayth, to geue this honor, only to the canonicall scriptures, that we must beleue them with out controuersie, and all other writings we receiue so farre as they agree with the scriptures and not other wise, wherefore we doe not onelyonly saye that the doctors hauehave erred like men, but we hauehave proued it, so that the Papistes them selues can not saye naye for shame. But to that he sayth, we doe boldely condemne the holy Scriptures, that it out of all measure impudent, and sclaunderous. And that which he citeth out of Irenaeus, belike as he had it of some foolish priest, that fedde him with notes of doctors, or as he is impudent enough, to peruerte the fathers meaning, him selfe, so if he had alleged the whole sentence he might well hauehave taken him selfe, and the rest of his fellowes by the noses, for heretikes, by the iudgemēt of Irenaeus, whose wordes be these. Cum enim ex scripturis arguantur, in accusationem conuertuntur ipsarum scripturarum, quasi non rectè hab…ant, neque sit ex authoritate, & quia variè sunt dictae, & quia non possit inueniri veritas, ab his qui nesciant traditionem, non enim per literas traditam illam, sed per viuam vocem. When they be confuted by the scriptures, they are turned into the accusation of the scriptures them selues, as though they were not well, nor of sufficient authority, both because the trueth can not be founde of them which knowe not the tradition, for that was not deliuered by writing but by worde of mouth. How saye you M Allen, who is an heretike by Irenaeus iudgement? who accuseth the scriptures as though they were not of sufficient authority, who sayth the scriptures are like a nose of waxe? who saye the trueth can not be founde in scriptures without tradition of vnwritten verities? In good sooth M. Allen, you hauehave the worst grace of any that euer I knew, in alleaging the sentences of the doctors, for you alleage fewe or none, but either in whole or in parte they make against you.
9 But if you thinke that I feane of them, you shall see what shamefull shiftes the maisters and captaines of the contrary assertion hauehave deuised for the defense of them selues: I dare say if the studious be but any whit indifferēt, he will leaue their s…hoole for euer. The chiefe Captaine of all these contentious heades, like an vnshamefast childe, affi…meth that the doctors praysed and followed the common errors of the ignorant people, in almes and prayers for the departed.
Brentius aunswereth, that Tertullian making mention of yearly oblations for the deceased, tooke his error of the hethen vsage of the gentility. And Augustine (he saith) affirmed purgatory,In confessione VVittember. prayers, and almes for them, for the affiance that he had in mens merites towardes the remission of sinnes. Melancthon (as though he were no man that might orre him selfe) sayth the doctors were men,In Apologia. and discented amongest them selues. As for the vsage of any celebration in the worlde, what roume can it hauehave with these champians, when C…luin confesseth in plaine termes,Instit. de Coena. that the celebration of the Sacrament hath bene contaminated euen in a maner sith the Apostles time, and first planting of our religion? and to reduce it to the puritie againe, the man frames a newe one of his owne: so farre from superstition, that it hath no steppe of religion or true worship of God. But well, the worde of God is yet safe with them, there a man may holde them. No surely: they are as …alsie with the very scripture it selfe, when so euer it maketh against them. Brentius before named, is not ashamed to saye that he pardoneth the author of the Machabeis of his error and ignorance. And that thou may see the perfect image of a prowde heretike, Caluin sayth thus: as for the booke of the Machabeis I will not vou…hsalfe to make aunswere to it. Mercifull God what faithfull hearte or eare coulde abide these blasphemous tongues… who of vntolerable arrogancy doe so deface the examples and doctrine, not onelyonly of the pillours of the whole Christian Church, whome they impudently for lacke of a more reasonable aunswere, condemne not onelyonly of simple ignoraunce: and errour in this point, with the residue of the whole faithfull people, which surely is ouer much to say of such learned and godly men as they were, but also of wilfull errour and superstition, in bearing and maintenaunce of the common ignoration, and ethnicke perswation of the worlde in their dayes: and following the heathen vsage of the gentilitie. And yet not content therewith, these lying maisters of their meere mercy be content to offer a pardon to the author of that booke for his errour, which booke the whole catholike Church of God through out Christiandome taketh for canonicall scripture, VVhichWhich arrogancy and passing boldnesse, although I perswade my selfe no vertuous man will in them allowe, sith they nowe being put to their shiftes, vtterly doe condemne those fathers, whose names with great oftentation they often to the simple repeate to make them suppose they be not with out scripture or doctors for the proofe of their willfull heresies, yet euen the very a…nswere it selfe which they imagine here in to disgrace the doctors, and delude the ignoraunt, is contrary to it selfe in sundry points. For they one while affirme that S. Augustine and others allowed that errour which the people by their superstitious deuotion had before their time brought in to the prayers of the Church: and an other while, that Iudas Machabaeus did institute it, who was before these authors diuars hundreths of yeares: and somewhile that they borowed it of the gentilitie, all which pointes be repugnant eche to other. For neither coulde that beginne in our Christian doctours dayes, which was vsed before Christes birthe: neither neede they to borowe it of the heathen which was in estimation and praysed amongest the Iewes.
9 We neede no shiftes M. Allen for the authoritie of the doctors, whome we neuer allow for canonicall Scriptures, and therefore we may boldly say, as Augustine sayth of Cyprian, what so euer we find in them agreable to the Scriptures, we receaue it with their prayse, and what so euer is disagreeable to the Scriptures we refuse with their leaue. Now by what meanes they fell into this errour that maintained prayer and almes for the dead, I shal hauehave better occasion to shew in the aunswere to the 14. chapter, although it be not greatly material, to know how they came into errour, when it is sufficiently proued that they did erre. As for the abridgement of Iason, ye Cyrenians story, which M. Allen maketh such a precious iewell, I hauehave aunswered inough before, that the author him selfe, desiring pardon of his readers, hath testified sufficiently, that he was no scribe of the holy Ghost, as also by many other vnauoydable reasons, with the consent of the Catholike Church, which it were superfluous here to repete. Finally whereas you say, that our aunswere is contrary to it selfe, you seeke a knot in a rush. For all may be true. First the deuill suggested superstitious deuotion into the Gentiles, by peruerse emulation of whom, Iudas might be deceiued, and his fact giuegive occasion to the ignorant people of errour, and their ignorance first winked at, because it had a shew of pietie, confirmed by custome, might at length be allowed of Augustine and others who neuer weighed the matter by Scriptures, but by the commō practise. And this I thinke is the right degree of prayers for the deade and purgatory.