Two Treatises Against the Papists, Book 2 · Chapter 10
That vve and all nations, receyued this vsage of praying and sacrifycing for the departed, at our first cōuersiō to Christes faith. And that this article vvas not on…ly con…irmed by miracle amongest the rest, but seuerally by signes and vvounders approued by it selfe. And that the Church is grovvne to such beauty by the fructes of this faith. CAP. X.
1 MAny moe examples of these matters might be brought out of S. Gregory, diuers out of Damascene, enowe out of what writer so euer you like best: such choise we hauehave in so good a cause, whereof eueryevery mans workes are full. But I will passe ouer the rest, that I may onelyonly reporte one history out of our owne Church, in the pure spring whereof, the Apostolike faith aboundātly ishued downe from the principall pastors of Gods Church, with great spreade of religion, which sith that time hath bewtified our country in all Gods giftes with the best. And amongest many euident testimonies of this trueth, with the practise therof, both to be founde in Gildas and in holy Beda, there is a straunge and a very rare example, not onelyonly for the plaine declaration of the vsage of our Church in the first foundation of our faith, but for an open shew by miracle in this liefe, how God releaseth of his mercye, by the holy oblation at the altar, the paines of the departed in the worlde to come. It shall be comfortable to the Catholikes, to consider this parte of our belefe to be confirmed by the miraculous working of God, as all other lightly be, in placies where the faith is first taught. And that our whole faith which our nation receiued of S. Augustine the monke, was so confirmed by the power of God, not onelyonly our owne histories do declare, but S. Gregory him selfe affirmeth it, writing his letters to Augustine in this sense:Beda lib. 1. cap. 31. that he should not arrogate any such wounderous workes to his owne power or vertue: which then God wrought by him, not for his owne holinesse, but for the planting of Christes faith in the nation where those signes were shewde.
Beda therefore,Lib. 4. hist. cap. 21. writeth this notable history of a miracle done not many yeares after our people was conuerted, in the beginning of his owne dayes: that in a foughten field betwixt Egfride and Edeldred, two princies of our lande, it fortuned that a younge gentleman of Egfrides armie, shoulde be so greuously wounded, that falling downe both him selfe with out sense, and in all mens sightes starke deade, he was letten lye of the enemies, and his body sought with care to be buried of his freindes. A brother of his, a good priest and Abbate, with diligent making search for his body, amongest many happed on one that was exceeding like him (as a man many easly be deceiued in the alteratiō that streight falleth vponupon the soules departure to the whole forme and fashion of the body) and bestowed of his louelove, the duety of obsequies, with solemne memorialls for the rest of him, whome he tooke to be his brother deceased, burying him in his owne monasterie, and causing Masse to be done daily for his pardon, and soules release. But so it fortuned, that his brother Huma (for so was he called) being not all out deade, with in foure and twenty houres came reasonably to him selfe againe: an… gathering with all some strength, rose vp, washte him selfe, a… made meanes to come to some freinde or acquaintaunce, whe… he might sallue his sores, and close his woundes againe: But by lacke of strength to make shifte, and by misfortune, he fell into his enemies handes: and therby the Capitane examined of his estate, he denied him selfe to be of name or degree in his country. Yet by the likelyhoods that they gathered of his comely demeanure, and gentleman like talke, which he coulde hardly dissemble, they mistrust (as it was in deede) that he was a man of armes, and more then a common souldiar. Therefore in hope of good gaine by his raunson, they thought good after he was full recouered, for feare of his escape to laye yrons vponupon him, and so to make sure worke. But so God wrought, that no fetters coulde holde him: for eueryevery day once at a certaine houre, the bandes brake loose with out force, and the man made free. The gentleman maruailed at the case him selfe, but his kepers and the capitaine were much more astonied thereat, and straitely examined him by what cunning or crafte he coulde with such ease set him selfe at libertie: and bare him in hande, that he vsed characters or letters of some sorcery and wichcrafte, with the practise of vnlawfull artes. But he aunswered in sadnesse, that he was altogether vnskillfull in such thinges. Mary ( que he) I hauehave a brother in my country that is a priest, and I knowe certainely that he sayth often Masse for my soule, supposing me to be departed and slaine in bataile. And if I were in an other life, I perceiue my soule by his intercession shoulde be so loosed out of paines, as my body is now from bondes: The capitaine perceiuing so much, and belike in some awe of religion, seeing the worke of God to be so straunge, soulde him to a Londoner: with whome the same thinges happened in his bondes loosing eueryevery daye. By which occasion he was licensed to go home to his freindes, and procure his ranson, for charging him with diuers sortes of surest bandes, none coulde salfely holde him. And so vponupon promesse of his returne or payment of his appointed price, he went his wayes, and afterwarde truely discharged his credit. VVhichWhich done by freindship that he founde in the same country, afterward returned to his owne parties, & to his brothers house: to whome when he had vttered all the history of his straunge fortune, both of his misery and miraculous relieuing, he enquired diligently the whole circumstance, with the houre and time of his daily loosing: and by conferring together, they founde that his bondes brake loose especially, at the very iuste time of his celebration for his soule. At which times he confessed, that he was otherwise in his great aduersities often released also, Thus hath that holy writer almost worde for worde, and at the ende he addeth this: Multi haec a praefato viro audientes, accensi sunt in fide ac deuotione pietatis, ad orandum, vel eleemosinas faciendas, vel ad offerendas Domino victimas sacrae oblationis, pro ereptione suorum qui de saeculo migrauerant. Intellexerunt enim quod Sacrificium salutare, ad redemptionem valeret, & animae & corporis sempiternam. Hanc mihi historiam, etiam hi qui ab ipso viro in quo facta est audiere, narrarunt. Vnde eam, qui aliquando comperi, indubitanter historiae nostrae Ecclesiasticae inserendam credidi. Many hearing thus much of the party him selfe, were wounderfully inflamed with faith and zele, to pray, to geue almes, and to offer sacrifice of the holy oblation, for the deliuery of their well-beloued freindes departed out of this life. For they vnderstoode that the healthfull sacrifice, was auaileable for the redemption of both body and soule euerlastingly. And this storie, did they that hearde it of the parties owne mouth, reporte vntounto me. VVhere vponupon hauing so good proofe, I dare be bolde to write it in my ecclesiasticall history. And thus much sayth Beda aboute eighte hundred yeares agoe, when our nation being but younge in Christianity, was fedde in the true belefe, by sundry wounderous workes of God.
CAP. X.
1 THe examples out of Gregory or Damascene, you may spare for your friendes, there is none of vsus, that maketh great accompt of them, and yet neither Gregory nor Damascene, were so grosse in their errour of prayer for the deade and purgatory, as you: but where you bragge of such choyse, that you can bring enowe out of what writer so euer we like best: you shoulde passing well prouide for the credit of your cause, and the discredit of ours, if out of so great store, you would helpe vsus with some thing out of Iustinus Martyr, Irenaeus, Clemens Alexandrinus, or any Authenticall writer, which liued within one hundreth yeares after the Apostles age. But when you beginne with Chrysostoms buriall, and yet can not proue that which you pretende, all men maye well thinke, and they which hauehave redde the olde writers know, you can not reach so high for all your proude promises. But you will do that, which shall be as good, you will shew that we and all nations receiued these vsages of praying and sacrificing for the departed, at our first conuersion to the fayth. you shall doe a great peece of worke, and such as no Papist yet, was euer able to doe. You shall be a Cardinal if you can doe it, yea you shall conuert all the Protestantes to the Catholike Church of Rome. Goe too man, beginne. Take the history of the Acts of the Apostles into your handes, in which mention is made of the conuersion of many nations to Christes faith, shew that the vsage of praying & sacrifycing for the dead, was receiued of them or any of them. Come of quickely, or all the worlde will saye you are but a prating merchant. But you will beginne with the conuersion of our nation. Goe to take Gildas into your hande, which testifieth that the Gospell was preached in this lande in the reigne of Tyberius the Emperour: proue vntounto vsus that Paule or Simon or Thaddeus or Ioseph or who so euer first preached the Gospell in this Ilande, tought prayers or sacrifices for the deade, Proue it I saye, and the daye is yours for euer, if you proue it not, as neither you nor the deuill for you is able to doe it: the worlde may see, your swelling bragges to be nothing but blowen bladders or bubles, in which there is nothing but ayre, as your wordes are nothing but winde, yet are you not ashamed, to name Gildas, who, as about the first conuersiō of the Britaynes to the faith he hath no worde of any such matters, so where he complayneth of there ruyne and decaye, he accuseth the priests of his time for sieldome sacrificing, but of sacrificing for the deade he speaketh not, although the error of praying for the deade were receiued in other places and whether this countrye were free from it I am not able to saye, nor you to proue, that it was infected with it. And therefore hauing nothing to shew for six hundreth yeare… almost, in which this lande was neuer voyde of Christians, you come in at last with the peruersion of the Saxons, by Augustine that prowde cruell and vnlearned monke, of whose pryde and cruelty our stories doe testifie at large: his ignorance and vnskilfulnesse is bewrayed by him selfe, in his writinges to Pope Gregory. I force litle what miracles he wrought to cōfirme his errors, neither doe I waye worth a flye that longe tale you tell, out of Beda, of him that had his cheines fallen o… in Masse time. That credulous and superstitious age, had many such fayned miracles. 500 such tales are toulde in vitas patrum, serm. discipuli, legenda aurea, the festiuall &c. But make you no more accompt of Beda his graue authority then of those fayned fables? suerly I make this accompt of Beda, that if he had reported the matter of his owne knowledge, I woulde hauehave credited the facte done, and yet tending to the maintenaunce of false doctrine I would neuer the sooner hauehave bene moued from the trueth of Gods worde. But when he reported it onelyonly of heare saye, and that not of the parties them selues that might hauehave bene witnesses, but of them that hearde this one man tell it by him selfe, it caryeth small credit with it. I beleue that such a tale was tolde to Beda, but what if they added some what to it that tolde him, and what if he that tolde them lyed? if Beda had not bene ouer light of credit him selfe, he shoulde not hauehave put it in writing, before he had perfect intelligence, not only of the party him selfe, but also of that Londiner and gentleman, and those that kept him in prison. But how so euer the matter weare true or false, it is no proofe nor preiudice against the trueth of God vttered in the holy scriptures. Let Augustine speake for vsus in his booke ae vnitate ecclesiae, against the Donatistes, which boasted of miracles, as the Papistes doe, but Augustine will not allow them for sufficient proues with out the authoritie of the scriptures, non dicat verum est quia ego hoc dico, aut quia hoc dixit ille collega meus, aut illi collegae mei, aut illi episcopi vel clerici, vel laici nostri, aut ideo verum est quia illa & illa▪ mirabilia fecit Donatus vel Potius vel quilibet alius, aut quia homines ad memorias mortuorum nostrorum orant & exaudiuntur, aut quia illa & illa ibi contingunt, aut quia ille frater noster, aut illa soror nostra tale visum, vigilans vidit, vel tale visum dormiens somniauit &c. Sed vtrum ipsi ecclesiam teneant, non nisi diuinarum scripturarum canonicis libris oftendant &c, Let him not saye it is therefore true, because I say it, or such a one my companion sayed it, or those my companions, or those our byshoppes, or clerkes, or laye men, or it is therefore true because Donatus or Pontius or any other did these or those miracles, or because men praye at our dead mens memories and are harde, or because these or these thinges doe happen there, or because this our brother or that our sister sawe such a vision waking or dreamed such a vision sleeping, &c. but whether they holde the Church or no, let them shewe none otherwise but by the canonicall bookes of the holy Scriptures. This place M. Allen if it might take place with you, might serue to cut of all controuersies, not onelyonly of purgatory, but of the Church it selfe and what so euer is in question betwene vsus. But you are wise enough, you will neuer venture your cause vppon that triall.
2 VVe must here stay a litle, and ponder in our mindes, how our forefathers and people of our owne lande were taught in this article,That faith is the true faith into vvhichwhich our nation vvas first cōuerted from infidelity. when they were first deliuered out of Sathans bondage, and conuerted to the fellowship of Christes Church and let vsus nothing doubt, but that which our owne Apostles both by worde and worke, by miracle and by martyrdome first proued vntounto vsus, is the very true and unfallible faith of our Christianitie. For if that were not true which at our first conuersion was preached vntounto vsus, then we receiued not the faith, but falsehoode at their handes: then the histories doe make a lowde lye, in testifying we were turned to the Christian faith both at that time and by such men, then it were no conuersion from heathen Idolatrie to the worship of Christ, but it were a chaunge from one superstition to an other: and this latter so much worse then the other, because vnderunder the name of Christ there were practise perpetuall of execrable sacrilege, in instituting of a sacrifice to the defasing of our redemption, in adoring bare breade as the hoste of our saluation, in offering it vp to God for the sinnes both of the quicke and deade, in practise of vnprofitable prayers for the soules deceased, with the like false worship of God in all pointes. Then their preaching was highly to Gods dishonour, pernicious to the people, and damnable to them selues. Then hauehave all that euer ranne the rase of that faith and doctrine, till this daye, which they taught, perished with them: then are they founde false witnesses, whome we hauehave accompted as our vndoubted, true and lawfull pastors: then God hath purposely deceiued vsus with fayned miracles full many, with numbers of vaine visions, then all our labour is lost till this day. The holynesse of so many good princies and priestes is praised in vaine, the bloude of Martyrs shed in vaine, the exercise of all sacraments in vaine: and because all deuotion consisted in our fathers dayes in the earnest zele of so false a religion, as they thinke this to be, then the more deuotion the farther from Christ, the lesse religion, more neere to saluation: then happy was he that was the worst, and cursed was he that was counted the best: then is our case most carefull, then are we worse then all other nations, that neuer receiued the name of Christ: then are we worse then we were before our conuersion, then (to be shorte) there is no religion, no Christ, no God, no hope of saluation.
2 I am content to staye with you, and ponder as much as is meete, the conuersion of the Saxones vntounto the faith of Christ. And first I saye that you reason both falsely and foolishly, to proue that either all opinions were true, or else all false, that the Saxones receiued at there first conuersion. For though prayer for the deade, and other superstitious opinions then receiued, were false, yet doth it not follow, that all that then was taught them for Christianity was false. For although Augustine had bene voyde of all true articles of the faith, yet the byshoppes and christian teachers of the Brytish nation, in whose ayde they required, and at last obtayned, to the conuerting of the Saxones, reteyned the foundation of fayth Iesus Christ, and the onelyonly sacrifice of his death. And this was the fayth that was receiued euen of the Saxones, as appeareth by those homylies that yet remaine in the Saxon tongue, appointed to be reade vntounto the people for their instruction, and namely in that printed Saxone homylie, which was appointed to be reade at Easter, where in is declared not onelyonly the faith of the Church at that time, concerning the sacrifice of Christ his death, but also that heresie of popish transubstantiation, and the reall presence of Christes body in the sacrament is pithily confuted. And therefore it is altogither vntrue that you say (M. Allen) that they did institute a sacrifice to the defacing of our redemption, as you do: that they did adore the sacrament, as the natural body of Christ as you doe: or counted it a …opitiatory sacrifice for the quicke and the deade as you doe: although they vsed vnprofitable prayers for the deade, and many other superstitions, Neither doth it follow, that all that taught or beleued those errours, so long as they builded vponupon Christ the only foundation, hauehave perished, or that all they taught was false, because some thing was vntrue: or that God hath deceaued vsus with fayned miracles, which Satan hath shewed to set vp the kingdom of Antichrist euen in the temple of God, with all lying signes and wonders, 2. Thes. 2. To conclude no truth is false, no vertue is vice, no good thing is euill, because all was not true, all was not vertue, all was not good, that was receiued and practised among them.
3 All which things if they repugne to common sense and reason, and to the comfortable hope of our saluation, which we hauehave receiued from God by Christ Iesus, and the assured testimony of the spirite of God, that we be a part of his chosen Church, & sanctified in his holy name by the word of truth and life, which we by the ordinary ministery of man hauehave receiued (signes and wonders confirming their calling and doctrine) then this religion which they planted first in our country, must nedes be in all points both holy, true, and accep…able vntounto God. Then as by that religion our fathers were ingraffed first into Christes body misticall, which is the Church, in which till this day they hauehave kept the high way to saluation, so who so euer forsaketh this, or any principall article or braunch thereof,Note and take heede betíme. and so leaueth that Church into which we first entered at our conuersion, he leaueth assuredly life and saluation, and without all doubt euerlastingly perisheth. Amongest which pointes of doctrine, our aduersaries can not deny, but the saying masse and offering for the deade, the almes and prayers for the departed, was taught with the first, and proued by miracles with the rest. The which either to deny were ouer much discredit of the antiquitie, and plaine impudencie: or else to attribute them to the deuills working, were open vntollerable blasphemy.
3 There is nothing that you saye in this parte, or that you can say in this respect, to proue that the religion here receiued was in all pointes holy, true, and acceptable to God, because it was in some and those the chiefe, but it may be sayed by the nations of the Gothes and Vandalles, which were first conuerted from hethenish idolatry, to the profession of the name of Christ, by the Arrian heretikes, to defend that there religion was in all pointes holy, true, and acceptable to God, or by them that were conuerted by the Donatistes, Nouations, or any other heretikes. For although the Arrians were blasphemous heretikes, yet they tought many thinges truely and soundly concerning the faith of christianitie. And therefore no more then the religion of the Arrians, who first turned those nations was true in all pointes, though it were in many: no more I saye was eueryevery article that was tought vntounto the Saxons, which were conuerted by superstitious Romanistes, in all pointes true, notwithstanding that many things and the principall were true: So much therefore as may be iustified by the worde of God of that doctrine, is holy, true, and acceptable to God, but that which is cont…ary to the doctrine of the holy Scriptures, is neither receiued from God, nor Christ, neither hath it any testimony of his spirite, by what presumptuous words, o… apperance of signes and wounders so euer it be vttered. Neither is it any greater offence for the English men, to renounce the error of praying for the deade, or abusing the communion to the similitude of a sacrifice, or any other superstition, then or at any time after receiued: then it was for the Gothes or Vandalles, to forsake the hereticall and blasphemous opinions of the Arrians, by whome they were first perswaded to reuerence the name of Christ, or for any other that were turned by any heretikes, to forsake their first errors, and geue place to the trueth after reueiled vntounto them. And whereas you affirme, that we can not deny, but that Masse, offering, almes, and prayer for the deade, were taught with the first, and proued by miracle with the rest: we may be bolde to deny, that they were at ye first taught so grossely, as they be now maintained impudently. And as for miracles, I meane such as were prophecied, to be the efficacy of error in the kingdome of Antichrist, we will confesse, that these and like errors had alwayes great plenty to establish them, as they which had no authoritie out of the holy Scriptures to approue them.
4 Yea this doctrine hath brought the Church to this bewtifull order in all degrees as we hauehave seene. All the noble monuments, not onelyonly in our common wealth, but through Christes Church doe beare sufficient testimony of our first faith herein. This doctrine (as the whole world knoweth) founded all Bishoprikes, builded all Churches, raised all Oratories, instituted all Collegies, indued all Schooles, mainteyned all hospitalles, set forward all workes of charity and religion, of what sorte so euer they be. Take awaye the prayers and practise for the deade, either all those monuments must fall,If praying for the dead vvere takē avvay, ther should no steppe of religion remayne. or else they must stand against the first founders will and meaning. Looke in the statutes of all noble foū dations, and of all charitable workes, euer sith the first day of our happy calling to Christes faith, whether they doe not expresly testifie, that their worke of almes and deuotion, was for this one especiall respect, to be prayd and song for, as they call it, after their deathes. Looke whether your Vniuersities protest not this fayth by many a solemne oth, both priuatly and openly. Looke whether all preachers that euer tooke degree in the Vniuersitie before these yeares,All our superintendents are deepely & daily periured. are not bound by the holy Euangelistes, to pray for certayne noble Princes and Prelates of this Realme, in eueryevery of their sermons at Paules, or other places of name. And so often as these preachers doe omitte it, so often are they periured: so often as they eyther eate or drinke of their benefactors cost, so often beare they testimony of their owne damnation.
4 This and almost all the rest to the ende of the chapter, might be as wel the expostulation of the heathen men with the Apostles, or them that first preached the faith of Christ. Were there not as goodly building of temples, colledges, and vniuersities among the heathen as are among vsus at this daye? but all they were builded and indowed by men of a contrary religion, doth it there…ore follow, that their religion was good, which erected such noble monuments, both of their common welth and of their religion? Although it is most false that Allen affirmeth, that this doctrine founded all byshopprickes, builded all Churches &c. but admit it were so, what argument were that to proue that his religion were true? Our stories testifie, that at the first conuersion of this lande to Christianity, in the time of Lucius, that arch flamines of the Paganes, were conuerted to archbyshopprickes. And the Pagane flamines, were conuerted to Bishopprickes, and so the temples of the Paganes were conuerted into the Churches of the Christians. Gregory also instructeth Augustine, how he should conuerte the temples of the Idolatrous Saxons vntounto the vse of the Christian Churches. If these stories be true, then is it both false that M. Allen sayth that his doctrine of Purgatory founded all Bishopprickes, Churches, &c. and also that all Bishopprickes, Churches, colledges, &c. must remaine in the religion of them by whome they were first founded: he procedeth further to charge all our superintendents of periury, for not keeping their othe made in the vniuersity to praye for the deade. Let them that hauehave made such othe aunswere for them selues, I am sure he lyeth of many and of the most of them, for that othe was onelyonly in Oxeford for any thing that I hauehave heard which vniuersity hath yeilded fewe to that place as yet. But it is certaine, that your popish Bishoppes of Queene Maries time, almost eueryevery one and the chiefest, Bonner, Gardyner, Heth, Hopton, Therlebye, &c. were manifestly periured, against that othe, which they tooke in K. Henry & K. Edwarde his daies, to maintaine the kinges supremacie against the vsurped power of the Pope. This all the world knoweth and therefore ye may be ashamed to accuse our superintendents of periurye, of whome I am sure you can name but a fewe that euer tooke the oth.
5 Aunswere me but one question I aske you: VVhether the first authors of such benefites as you enioye in the Church at this daye,A harde questiō proposed to the Protestant. either of bishoppricke, or colledge, or any other spirituall liuely hoode, say your mindes vnfeinedly, whether they euer mēt that such men, of such a religion, of such life, of such doctrine, should enioy that almes which they especially ordeined for other men, and for contrary purpose? say trueth and shame the deuill, thought they euer to make roume in Collegies for your wiues, mēt they euer to mainteine preachinge against the Masse, against prayers for their owne soules? when they purposely vponupon that grounde beganne so godly a worke? if they in deede neuer ment it, as I knowe they did not, and as your owne consciencies beare witnesse with them, and against your selues that they did not, how can you then for feare of Gods high displeasure, against their owne willes, vsurpe those commodities which they neuer ment to such as you be. A lasse good men, they thought to make freindes of wicked Mammon, and full dearly, with both landes and goods, hauehave they procured enemies to their owne soules. But if there be any sense in those good fathers and founders (as there is) and if they be in heauen, as their good deseruing I trust hath brought them, then surely they accuse you most iustly of wicked vniustice before the face of God, for deluding the people, for breaking their willes, for usurping their commodities, against their professed mindes and meaninges. Or if they be in hell (which God forfende, and yet you must needes so suppose, for raysing the monuments of such superstition) then blotte out their memorie and names, that hauehave not onelyonly in their life mainteined horrible abusies, but also after their death hauehave lefte such open steppes of superstition, to all posteritie.
5 The same question you maye demaunde of the fathers of the primitiue Church, and in deede the same question or the like was demaunded of them, and it is not so harde to answere as you imagine. Many of these Churches and colledges, yea the most notable cathedrall Churches in England, were builded for preachers of the Gospell and there wiues to dwell in. Our stories are plentifull in that point, that they were the first inhabiters of them and afterwarde, as Idolatrie, and superstition preuailed, were with all violence and iniury expelled out of them, and monkes placed in their steede. If you be so skilfull in antiquity as you make your selfe, you can not be ignorant of this, which is testified by Ranulphus Castrensis, Mathaeus VVestmonasteriensis the storie of Peterburghe and many other. Now whether any ment to maintaine preaching against Masse or prayers for their owne soules, as we knowe not whether they did or no, so we compt it not materiall. Such liuinges as are appointed by the prince and the lawe for maintenaunce of them that preach the Gospell, we maye enioye with a good conscience without regarde of their meaning, that first builded the houses or possessed the landes. For we must not seeke to learne our faith and religion out of their meanings and intentes, but out of the worde of God. And whether the builders of such places, be saued or damned, it perteineth not to vsus to iudge, nor to enquire. Such things as were well done of them, we woulde commend if they were heathen men, but if any thing were euill in them, we may not allowe it, though they were neuer so good.
6 Suppose I pray you, which yet I woulde be lothe shoulde come to proofe or passe, but suppose for all that, that with the taking away of this olde faith of praying and offering for the dead, all the workes of the same faith which ishued downe from that fountaine, might shrinke with all, or returne to the founders againe, because there is no rowme to fulfil their willes, how many Churches and Chappelles, what Colledges or hospitalls, woulde our newe no faith bring forth? VVould not eueryevery bishoppes wife builde a Church thinke you, or founde a Colledge in such a necessitie, lest their husbands shoulde be driuen to serue in a reformed french barne?
6 Nowe as touching your vaine supposing, if all such landes as were geuen to mainteine prayers for the deade, or other like purposes, either good or supposed to be good should reuerte to the heyers of their first founders, for not performing the intent of the founders, perhaps fewe monasteries, colledges, or hospitalles, In Italy, Spayne, Fraunce, or Flaunders, shoulde enioy… one halfe peny worth of their landes, or reuenewes. They ment, not onelyonly to be prayed for, but to be prayed for, by men of honester conuersation then the greatest parte of those cloysterers are. They are too well knowen to the worlde, to be taken for that they be called, holy, religious, and chaste. But suppose as you sayde, that we had no manner of Churches to assemble in, though byshoppes wiues be not able to builde them, yet we doubt not but in the time of peace and tranquilitie, vnderunder godly princes, we shoulde hauehave as many and as faire builded Churches as the religion of Christ hath neede of. HaueHave you not hearde of the Churches builded in Orleans and Antwerpe & other places by the professors of the Gospell. But if it were in time of persecution and tyranny, I doubt not, but all godly bishoppes, had rather serue in a french reformed barne, then in a popishe gilded minster. And how so euer you iest like a scornefull caytifie, of those holy assemblees of Gods children in Fraunce, there barnes are more like those caues and vaultes vnderunder the earth that the olde Christian byshoppes were content to serue in, before the time of Constantine, thē your Idolatrous Babylonicall temples, are like those princely buildings, that by Constantine and other Christian princes were first set vp for the publicke exercise of Christian religion.
7 One of these mocke byshoppes complaines very sore in a booke of his,Super Aggaeum. that men be not now bent with such zele and deuotion to preferre Gods honour, in maintenaunce of his Ministers, as they were in olde time, and as Constantinus, with the like christiā Princies in the primitiue Church, were. But the good man marked not wherevpon this colde deuotion ariseth: he considereth not, that this is the fructlesse effect of so idle a false faith, as his owne lordship preacheth: he would not see that the maintenaunce of Gods honour, both by liefe, landes and goods, in the peculiar fructe of that charitable louing faith, which the Catholikes doe professe: he weyed not well, that the great grauntes of Constantinus, were made to Syluester Bishop of Rome, and not to the maried Byshop of Duresme. He remembred not, that the like holy workes of the noble kinges of our owne countrie, were practised vponupon such as would… professe the trueth, and serue the altar, and not vponupon false pastors, that were destroyers of all altars. Such honorable portions were parted out for Gods lot, and not taken from the worlde, to goe to the worldely againe. Thinke you any man were so minded, to take from his owne wife and children, either landes or goods, to bestow on priestes babbes or bedfellowes? No no God knoweth: it was separated from them selues to the sacrifice, to the priesthoode, to the honour of Gods Church and ministerie. The which thinges by your owne preaching (my lordes) decaide, woulde you hauehave the Prince or peoples deuotion towardes you, as is was, and woulde be still, if you were like your predecessors, and serued the altar as they did? I wisse if the olde S. Cuthbert, Wilfride, and William, whome they compare in holynesse to horsies (so good is their opinion of their holy auncieters) had bene of the same religion that the occupiers of their roumes now be, all the Prelates in England might hauehave put their rentes in a halpeny purse. Come in againe, come in for Christes sake, come in to the Church againe, serue the altar, and then you be wort… to liue of the altar: followe our fathers, and you shall be loued as our fathers were, confesse that religion which our owne Apostles first taught, and we all hauehave beleued, and all the workes of Gods Church protest to be true, and then you shall be blessed of God, and honoured of men.
7 You are a priuileged person as your owne talke doth declare, and therefore you may prate what you list, if he be a mocke bishoppe, which beside his excellent learning, is also a painefull and diligent preacher of the Gospell, what are those vnlearned Asses, and rechlesse ruffians of your secte, which hauehave nothing of a bishop but a rotchet and a myter, or because I will not charge you with the worst, what are they which if they hauehave some more learning then the rest (of which number there are but fewe) yet they count it the least part of their office, to preach and teach, which S. Paule counteth to be chiefe part of a Christian shepeheard & ouerseer. But to leaue the name & come to the matter, you mistake that godly mans complaint, if you thinke he meaneth of superfluous buyldinges of Synagoges, whereof you speake, or the vnnecessary enryching of Prelates, whereof you meane, when he speaketh of the necessary sustentations of a great number of Pastors, which through the rauening of your gluttonous Monkes, be robbed of their portions. And whereas you aunswere, it is the fruite of so idle a false faith, as his lordship preacheth, your mastership lyeth. For that fayth which he preacheth, is both a true and a working faith, which if it were as generally receiued, in this land, as it is truely preached by him and others, the ministers of Gods word could lacke no liuings, as God be thanked they neither doe nor can lacke sufficient for necessity, among so many of high authority, nobility, and wealth, as doe vnfaynedly professe the Gospell, and dayly bring forth the fruites of a true, liuely, working, and onelyonly iustifying fayth. The Churches of Fraunce in time of greatest persecution, yet hauehave alwayes liberally susteyned their Pastors, And as for the great grauntes, that Constantine made to Syluester Byshop of Rome, of such as he made in deede, he made to married Byshops of Rome, as some of them were since Syluester time, rather then vntounto Syluester the coniurer, Hildebrand the hell hounde, Iulius the warriar, or any that succeeded Boniface the third, which beside their abominable life, were all heretikes and Antichristes. And touching such benefites as were receiued at the handes of princes, and noble men of our cuntry, if they were ment to be bestowed vponupon ye professors of the truth, and such as serue the aulter of God, they are now bestowed according to their founders intent. For they that serue the aultar of God, must needes pull downe the aultars of idolls. And if any portions that were taken from the world, be gone to the worldely agayne, I meane the Abbies and their landes, it is the iust plague of God vponupon them, that vnderunder hypocrisie of forsaking the world, liued not like men of the world, but like deuills of hell. And whereas you aske agayne, if any man would take from his owne wife & children, to bestow vppon Priestes wiues and children, I hauehave aunswered before, that the chiefe collegiat Churches in England, were first inhabited of married Priestes, which taught sounder doctrine and liued a more chast life, then the Epicureous Monkes that succeeded them. I might aske of you M. Allen if they meant not to mainteyne Priestes wiues & their children, whether they ment rather to mainteyne Priestes whores & their bastardes, Byshops brothells, and their minions. Sodom and Gomor of Monkes & Fryers, it was neither Cutberd, VVilliam, nor VVilfryde, wether they were holy or superstitious, but the prouidence of God, that appointed such portion as the Church now enioyeth, & if the same by any meanes should be taken from them, yet God hath appointed that they which preach the Gospell, shall liue of the Gospell. We are not so carefull of worldly liuelihood, as you (knowing your owne disease) imagine that we should be, that we would come into your filthy Synagoge, to winne Cardinalls hatts, or Archbishops palls, some of vsus if they had sought worldly promotion, by abusing their learning & wittes, to ye maintenaūce of your horrible heresies, needed not to hauehave come frō you, to seke preferment among the Protestants, which you know is neither so great, nor so easy to come by as among the Papists.
8 But let them on thinke on these matters them selues. I will turne againe to my purpose, although I can not goe farre from my matter, so longe as I am in the beholdinge of that faith which our first preachers brought vntounto vsus at our first conuersion, or in any steppe of the antiquitie: which we well perceiue to be the fructe only of that doctrine which we hauehave declared, and an euident testimony of so vndoubted a trueth. I thinke there is no way so certaine for the contentation of a mans selfe, in this time of doubting and diuersitie in doctrine, as in all matters to hauehave an eye towards the faith which we receiued, when we were first conuerted. And for that point, I woulde wishe that S. Bedes history were familiar vntounto all men that hath vnderstanding of the Latine tongue, and to all other if it were possible: for there shall they plainely see, the first beginning, the increase, the continuance, the practise, the workes proceding out of the catholike faith: feare not that is the trueth, for that was the first, and that was grounded by Gods worde, and openly confirmed by miracle. And that point must be considered not onelyonly for our owne countrie, but for all others that be, or hath bene Christianed. For into the selfe same faith were they first ingraffed also: as by the peculiar practising of eueryevery good man towardes his freinde and louer, I hauehave already declared, and nowe for the generall vsage of Gods Church the reader shall at large perceiue, that nothing may wante to our cause, whereby any trueth or light may be had.
8 The conclusion of your chapter, is a recourse to the beginning, you thinke it is the suerest way, to looke to that faith in all poyntes, which this land first receiued. If men should follow your counsell, as in some things they should follow your faith which you now teach, so in many poynts & namely in that which you coūt the chiefe, (the reall presence of ye naturall body of Christ) they should go as farre from that you teach, nowe, as you would hauehave them come neare some things that were receiued thē. And wheras you wish that Bedes history, for that purpose were made familiar, and some of you in deede hauehave taken paynes to translate it into English, they that list not to be deceiued but to see into what faith all nations were conuerted, that were turned by the Apostles, they were better to consider the word of God and the history of the actes of the Apostles, which if you durst abyde the tryall thereof, you would exhort men to reade it, at least wise that vnderstand Latine. And if you were as zealous to sette forth the glory of God as you are earnest to mainteyne your owne traditions, one or other of you which hauehave so longe founde faulte with our translations of the scripture, woulde hauehave taken, paines to translate them truely your selues, as well as to translate Bedes booke, or else to write such bables, as you doe M. Allen and all the packe of you, but all in vayn…, to shadowe the same, whose right shoulde easely discusse all clowdes of darke doctrine and the more it is impugned, the more bright shall it shewe, and the more it is compared with darkenesse the more glorious it shall appeare.