Two Treatises Against the Papists, Book 1 · Chapter 5
A briefe ioyning in reason and argument vponupon the proued groundes, vvith the aduersaries, for the declaration of Purgatory. CAP. V.
1 HAving vndoubtedly wonne thus much both by euidēt testimony of holy writ, by the warraunt of all the learned fathers, by good reason, and by the aduersaries owne confession, I will be bolde to bare the very iointes of the argument, that both the simple may acknowledge my plaine dealing, and the Protestant hauehave his vauntage, if the reason stand not vpright. VVith out colour or glose then thus I make my proofe.
After the sinnes of man be pardoned, God oftentimes punisheth the offender, the church punisheth him, and man punisheth him selfe, ergo there is some payne due after sinne be remitted. Secondly this payne can not alwayes be discharged in this world, eyther for lacke of space after the remission, as it happeth in repentaunce at the houre of death, or else when the party liueth in perpetuall welth without care or cogitation of any satisfaction, therefore it must be aunswered in an other place. Thirdly the common infirmities and the dayly trespasses which abase and defile the workes euen of the vertuous, of their proper condition doe deserue payne for a tyme, as the mortall offence deserueth perpetuall: Therefore as the mortall sinne, being not here pardoned, must of iustice hauehave the reward of euerlasting punishment: so it must needes followe, that the veniall fault not here forgeuen, should hauehave the reward which of nature it requireth: that is to say, temporall payne.
And therefore not onelyonly the wicked, but the very iust also must trauell to hauehave their daily infirmities and frailty of their corrupt natures forgiuen: crying without ceasing forgeue vsus our debts: Quia non iustificabitur in conspectu tuo omnis viuens. For no man aliue shalbe able to stand before the face of God in his owne iustice or righteousnes,Aug. Ench. cap. 71. and if these light sinnes should neuer be imputed, then it were needelesse to cry for mercy or confesse debt, as eueryevery man doth be he neuer so passing holy. To be briefe, this debt of paine for sinne by any way remayning at the departure hence, must of iustice be aunswered: VVhichWhich can not be without punishmēt in the next life, then there must be a place of iudgement for temporall and transitory paynes in the other world. The whole discourse made before hath geuen force enough to eueryevery part of the argument: the Scriptures doe proue it, the practise of the Church confirmeth it, all the doctors by our aduersaries graunt, agree vponupon it. If they hauehave any thing to say, here I make them fayre play: the ground is open, the reasons laide naked before their face: remoue them as they can. Lette them deale simply if they meane truely, and not flourish as they vse, vppon a false ground, that in flowe of wordes they may couer errour, or in rase of their smoth talke ouerrunne truth.
And that eueryevery man may perceiue that we hauehave not raised this doctrine vponupon reason only or curiositie (although the graue authoritie of Gods Church might here in satisfie sober wittes) we will now by Gods helpe go nearer the matter, and directly make proofe of Purgatory by holy Scriptures: reciting such places of the olde and new Testament, as shall proue our cause, euen in that sense which the learnedst and godlyest fathers of all ages, by conference of places or other likelyhood, shall fynde and determine to be most true. Alleaging none els but such as they hauehave, in the flour of Christian faith, noted and peculiarely construed for that purpose which now is in question. That the aduersaries of that doctrine, may rather striue with the said saincts and doctours, then with me, that will as they shall well perceiue do nothing, but truely reporte their wordes or meaninge. Or rather that such as hauehave erred in that case, by giuing ouer light credit to the troblesome teachers of these vnhappy dayes, maye, when they shall vnderstand the true meaning of the Scriptures, the constant doctrine of the Catholike Church, the wordes of all auncient writers, the determination of so many holy Councels, & the olde vsage of all nations by humble prayers obteine of God the light of vnderstanding the trueth, and the gifte of obedience to his will and worde. Or if there be any so sattled in this vnlickely sect, that he purposeth not to beleue the graue writers of olde times, nor receiue their expositions vponupon such places as we shall recite, for that preiudice which he hath of this owne witte and vnderstanding, yet let him not maruell at my simplicity, that had rather geue credit to others then my selfe: Or that in this hote time of contention and partaking in religion, I do repose my selfe vnderunder the shadow of so many worthy writers, as anone shall giuegive euidence in my cause.
CAP. V.
1 TRiumphing before the victorie, and that is more, before the encontry of hāde strokes, (for we come to ioyning but now) you will now win your spurs or els it shalbe a blacke daye with all Protestantes. I will be as shorte in mine aunswere, as you are in your arguments. And that I may put on an armour of proofe, to beare of your terrible haileshot, your first argumēt hath neither good forme nor matter, no more hath your second, no more hath your third? If you or any for you, will prepare your selfe to geue a bitter charge, either I or some other, shalbe redy to shape you an other aunswere. But because here is nothing in this briefe ioyning, but which hath bene largly discharged before, in aunswere to your longe excursions, it were nedelesse to make such vaine repetition, as you doe, especially in your last shorte argument, in which space all the substaunce of your large booke might easily hauehave bene placed, only to fil vp a competent length of the fift chapter, and with such a tedious inlarging of a superfluous matter, as a yong practiser of Rhetoricke would be ashamed to vse, in a fayned declamation, much worse becomming an auncient master of arte, professing to trusse vp his arguments by Logicke, to make a perfect perswasion. As for the promisse of further proofe, both out of the Scriptures and out of the doctors that followeth after this gallant ioyning, and lusty challenge, shall hauehave no preiudice of my disabling of the meane to perform it vntill it appeare by playne conference of his arguments and myne aunswers, that his words are but winde, and his promisse but pratling.