Two Treatises Against the Papists, Article rebutted 17 – Article rebutted 19
The 17. Article conteyneth 5. demandes.
1 I aske of them whether the Lutherans, Zuinglians, Illirians, Caluenistes, Confessionistes, Swenkefeldians, Anabaptistes and such like, be all of one Church?
BEcause you would make simple men beleue, that there be so many diuerse sectes of Protestantes, as you hauehave giuen them names, I will first discusse these sectes, and afterwarde aunswere your question. Lutherans, you meane them that follow Luthers opinion of the Sacrament. Zuinglians, follow Caluines iudgement of the same. Confessionistes, them that exhibited their confession at Auspurge, which were both the Lutherans and Zuinglians, so these 3, names may be contracted into two: Lutherans and Zuinglians. As for Illyrians, if you call them of Flaccius Illyricus, they be Lutherans, in opinion of the Sacrament, and differ onelyonly in ceremonies, which can not diuide them from the faith. Caluine, and they that be of his iudgement, agree plainly with Zuinglius, so that of fiue names, there remaine but two sortes differing in opinion, whereunto you ioyne the Swenkefeldians and Anabaptistes. Now to your question, these be not all of one Church, for ye Swenkefeldians & Anabaptists be detestable heretiks, but ye Lutherans & Zuingliās (as it pleaseth you to cal thē) are of one true church, although they differ in one opinion, cōcerning ye Sacramēt, for although the one affirme a real presence, ye other deny it, yet they both cōsent in this, that ye body of Christ, is receiued spiritually, not corporally, with the hart, and not with the mouth. Wherfore, this dissention is not so great (though there be error on the one side) but that they may be both of the Church of Christ, as well as S. Cyprian, the Martyr, and all the Bishops of Africa, and a great many of Asia, differing with Stephanus, bishop of Rome, and the rest of his opinion in rebaptizing such as were baptized by heretiks.
2 And if either they can proue vntounto me, that these, being of such diuersitie in faith and religion make one Church.
WE hauehave alwaies abhorred the heresies of the Anabaptistes, Libertines, Swenkefeldians, Dauidians, Seruitians, and all such. But that Luther & Zuinglius, may be both of one Church, differing onelyonly in one opinion of the Sacrament, is declared before.
3 Or that each of their sects may giuegive saluation to their folowers, being so disagreable, one with an other in high points of our Religion.
SAluation is the gift of God, and not in the power of any company, or sect of men: but this we affirme, that out of that Church, whereof we count Luther, and Zuinglius, notwithstanding their diuerse opinions (which is but in one matter of the Sacrament) to be members, there is no saluation.
4 Or that I should beleue all these rather then the Catholike Church, or one of these more then another, all making such a bold chalenge of the truth and Gospell.
NO man requireth you to beleue all these, but the true Catholike Church onelyonly. Neither doe we requite you to beleue any one company of men, more then an other: but to beleue the trueth before falshood. Now, which of them hath the truth, that they all brag of, you must search in the word of truth, desiring the spirite of truth that you may vnderstand and beleue the truth, and so without doubt, you shall come to the knowledge of the truth, and of the Church of God, which is the piller and stay of truth.
5 Let the Protestants of all these kindes put their heades together, and shew me a reason of these thinges, and with all, let them among them selues agree, to what sorte of these sectes they woulde hauehave me, and I will recant.
SVch is your impudencie in this matter, as in all other, that you woulde make men beleue that the Anabaptistes, Swenkefeldians, Libertins, and other abhominable heretikes, be Protestantes: But it is well that you can make none but fooles thinke so: as for the Protestantes, they neede take no great deliberation to aunswere your demandes but you had more neede to laye your heades together to reconcile the Thomistes, Albertistes, Ockamistes, Scotistes, Reales, and Nominalls, which be all sectes of Papistes, and especially your Canonistes, and diuines, about the articles of your religion, that is: whether the Pope be aboue the Councell, or the Councel aboue the Pope. Whether the Pope may erre and not the Councell, or whether the Councell maye erre and not the Pope. These two: the Popes determination and the Councells determination, being the rules of trueth in your religion and not agreed vponupon: how can any trueth be certeine in your Church? As for Luther, and Zuinglius, they agree vponupon one rule of trueth, that is the worde of God, and differ onelyonly for the applying or laying of this rule, & yet but in one matter & that not the greatest. But you Papists, some holding of the Pope, and some of the Councell, as rules of truth, can hauehave no ground nor certainty thereof. Therefore if you woulde hauehave me, or any man, to be of your belefe. First determine how I shal know when I am in a right beleefe: one sayeth, if the councell alloweth it, an other sayeth if the Pope alloweth, what shall I doe, when one of these is against an other? yea when one Pope is against an other, and one councell against an other, shall I thinke that trueth changeth so often as they change. Moreouer when one Pope graunteth, that the councell is aboue the Pope and that the Pope maye erre. Likewise one councell graunteth, that the Pope is aboue the councell and that the councell may erre, as it hath bene within the 200. yeares, the councells of Constance and Basill, determined that the councell was aboue the Pope and that the Pope maye erre. Contrariwise, the councell of Ferraria, and Florence, determined that the Pope was aboue the councell and that the councell might erre. Martinus 5. the Pope chosen by the councell of Constance, was of the same iudgement that the councell: But Eugenius 4. that gathered the councell of Ferraria, and Florence against the councell of Basill, was of the contrarie iudgement. Nowe I woulde saye he were a wittie fellow, that coulde reconcile this geare together. For, if he be a Canonist that holdeth this opinion: that the Pope can not erre, whē the Pope him self graunteth that he may erre, which waye shall he turne him selfe? For, if this proposition be true: the Pope can not erre, then this is true also, that the Pope may erre: for if he can not erre he can not erre in saying so: And if the Pope erred in saying, he coulde erre where he can not erre, then this proposition is false, the Pope can not erre, so one proposition shalbe both true and false, which is impossible. Likewise if he holde that hilde that the councell can not erre, and the councell it selfe confesseth it that it may erre. Gentle maister N. reconcile me these together, which concerne a case that hath bene in practise and still is, in the Papistrie, and maye here trouble a mans conscience that woulde beleue your church, and if he hauehave any wit, restraine him for euer comming into your church: If you can not vntie this knot nor winde your selfe out of this maze, vnlesse you will be still obstinate, it were wisedome for you to recant.
The 18. article hath but one demande.
I demande whether they were euer of the true Catholike church, which either tooke to them selues newe names of religion according to the calling of any secte maister, or liked not so well the name of Catholike or Christian as of their seuerall teachers, as to be called of Arius, Arians, or of Caluine, Caluinistes, or of Luther, Lutheranes, or Protestants &c. if any man therefore can proue vntounto me that men which hauehave chosen to themselues to declare their diuersitie of faith, from the common knowen Catholike church such newe names, shoulde be of the Catholike church, I recant.
I Aunswere that they which can not be content with the name of Christians, but chose vntounto them selues newe names after the calling of their secte maisters: as Arrians, Pelagians, Franciscanes, Dominicanes, Benedictines, Gilbertines, Augustinians, Scotistes, Thomistes, Albertistes, &c. are none of the Catholike church: But the true Christians which desier most of all to be so called, and compting it a most honorable name without chosing any other name, be of the Catholike church, although in reproch, they be called of you Caluinistes, and Lutherans. As for the name of Protestants, came first of them that made protestatiō against the decree of Spires in Germanie, and from that time hath bene attributed to the professors of the Gospell: which name they doe not so much delight in, as you doe in the name of Papistes. Therefore, if nothing els do let you but the name▪ there is no cause why you shoulde not recant.
The 19. article hath but one demande.
Againe, if these, which by the common calling and iudgement of Christian people, be named and commonly taken for heretikes, hauehave not in all ages proued them selues in the ende to be heretikes in deede, notwithstanding their craking of Gods worde, and therefore that the Protestants being so taken and called, proue not so in deede, I recant.
THose that by true Christians, hauehave bene called and counted for heretikes, hauehave proued so in deede, and therefore the Papistes, being called and counted heretikes of true Christians, without doubt, are heretikes in deede. But it hath not bene alwayes true, that they, which of the people commonly called Christians, were called and taken for heretikes, proued so in deede. For the true Christians of the Arrian people, that were called Christian people, were called and taken for heretikes, and in reproch, were called Homousians, and Athanasians, yet they proued and were in deede, true Christians and no heretikes. So the true Christians at this day, being of the Papistes, which after a sorte, are named Christians: called heretikes, and in reproch Protestants, and Caluinistes, in that their faith agreeth with the worde of God, proue them selues in deede, to be true Christians, & no heretikes. Therefore you hauehave bound your selfe to recant.