Two Treatises Against the Papists, Article rebutted 12 – Article rebutted 13
The 12. article hath 3. demandes.
1 Item I aske what kinde and order of seruice, or common prayer, what waye of ministring of the sacraments your Church had: before Papistry (as you call it) did preuaile in the worlde?
IVstinus Martyr, in his second Apollogie to the Emperour, declareth plainely what order of seruice and ministration of sacramentes our Church had before Papistry preuayled. On the daye called Sonday (sayth he) there is a meeting together of all them that dwell in the Citie or in the countrie, and the monumentes of the Apostles, or the writinges of the Prophetes are reade vntill it be thought sufficient, when the reader hath made an ende, he that is our ouerseer (or cheefe minister) maketh a sermon of admonition and exhortation to follow those good thinges that are reade. After this we all stande vp together and make our prayers, and as we hauehave saide before, when our prayers are ended, there is brought forth bread and wine & water, and the cheefe minister, doth likewise with all his might yelde prayers and thankesgeuing, and the people aunswereth Amen. Then is made distribution to eueryevery one and receyuing of those thinges for which thankes was geuen, and to them that be absent, it is sent by the deacons. Such as are riche and willing doe geue almes what they will, &c. By this one authoritie, it may be seene though other might be brought, what order of seruice and ministration of sacraments our Church vsed before Papistry gat the vpper hande.
2 Shew one booke of Communion or what els you list that was in English, or lacked prayer for the departed, or inuocation of Sainctes in heauen, or that wanted oblation, or sacrifice, or that charged a number to receyue, or els that the preest coulde not consecrate nor say Masse, himselfe, or shew any note in a Communion booke, that the people shoulde take the sacrament for plaine breade, or that they should geue no honor to it, shew this booke or any leafe or line of this booke.
IT may trouble a wise man to aunswere all the questions that a foole can propounde: you requier to see a booke of Communion in English, or that lacked &c. When it is confessed, that the English nation receiued their religion first from Rome, at such time as Religion there was verie corrupt, what marueill is it, if we can not shewe you such a Communion booke as you require, but we can easily shew you out of the scripture, the the Communion ought to be ministred in the vulgare tongue, that prayer for the deade and to the deade ought not to be vsed, that the sacrament ought not to be turned into a sacrifice, that there ought to be a communiō of many receauers and not a priuate masse, that the substance of the bread is not changed, that the elementes of the sacrament are not to be honored: these I say we can proue out of the worde of God, the Catholike writers of the olde Church. And though perchaunce, it wilbe harde to finde a communion booke in English, yet hauehave I founde you a canon of the Laterane Councell, that it ought to hauehave bene translated into English, yet are there founde diuers monumentes of Antiquitie, as Prayers, Psalmes, and Homilies, &c. in the olde English or Saxons tongue, in which the reall presence, transubstantiation, and other poinctes of Popish doctrine are plainly confuted. There may be shewed you also Bybles both the olde Testament and New in the English tongue of diuers translations, in olde written hande. Also great bookes of English homilies inueighing directly against the Pope and all Popish doctrine in olde English written hande, with diuers other small treatises and pamphlets of like matters, if these woulde do you any good, you might hauehave the sight of them, when you please.
3 Or any Church or Congregation that euer had any Authenticall seruice but ours, and I recant.
THe Church of the Brytannes before Augustine came in, with Romish seruice, had they not trow you Authenticall seruice? which continued in the faith of Christ euen from the Apostles time. The Grecians also & Orientall churches, hauehave they not vntounto this day, their Authenticall seruice? which is not yours? If you can not deny this, you should recant.
The 13. article hath 2. demaundes.
1 Furthermore I requier to know what shoulde be the cause that the Protestants them selues, doe receiue all Byshops, Priestes, Deacons, and other officers spirituall of all sortes of our Catholike church, and doe admit them as men lawfully and sufficiently ordered, both to preach, minister sacraments, and to exercise spirituall iurisdiction no lesse, but rather more, than if they were of their owne ordering, where we of the Catholike church, doe not acknowledge any man of their calling to be any whit more fitte for any spirituall function than other lay men.
ALthough all godly men wishe more seueritie of discipline to be vsed, in receyuing them that come out of heresies to serue in the Church, than is commonly practised in England: yet you are highlie deceyued, if you thinke we esteeme your offices of Bishops, priests, deacōs, any better than the state of lay men, but farre worse: for we iudge them to be nothing els but Antichristianitie, heresie, and blasphemie. And therefore we receiue none of them to minister in our church, except they forsweare your religion: And so their admission is not an allowing of your ordering, but a new calling vntounto the ministerie.
2 Therefore vponupon this presumption that they doe not onelyonly admit our ministring of sacraments, but also the lawfull ordering of the ministers for the same, if they can shew me why our church hauing by their owne consent and approuing lawfull priestes and bishops should not be the true church, I recant.
YOu presume to much as I saide before to thinke that we receiue your orderinge to be lawfull or your ministring of sacraments to be pure. And if you gather, that we admitte your ministration of sacraments because we doe not rebaptize them that were baptized by you, we maye likewise gather that you admit our ministration of sacraments, because you doe not rebaptize them that are baptized of vsus, nor marrie againe those that are married in our Church: wheras you compt mariage to be a sacrament, so that our accepting of your doings doth no more allow your church, than your accepting of our doinges, doth allow our Church. And as touching the sacrament of Baptisme, because you reteyne the Institution, in baptizing in the name of the Father, the Sonne, and the holy Ghost: and in asmuch as the sacraments take not their effect of the minister, but of God, we receiue it: as of other heretikes which likewise reteine the Institution. Wherefore there is no cause why you shoulde thinke we allow yours to be the true Church thereby: So that there is good cause why you shoulde recant.