Two Treatises Against the Papists, Book 2 · Chapter 7
That the benefite of prayer and almes appertaineth not to such as dye in mortall sinne, though in the doubtefull case of mans beeing, the Church vseth to praye for all departed in Christes fayth. CAP. VII.
1 THus farre we now are broght, I trust with proofe and euidence enough, with reasonable cleere light for the good simple peoples instruction, and with full safety, from all the force our aduersaries can make against vsus. The Patriarches example, the wordes of scripture, the practise of the Church, the naturall society betwixt the partes of Christes misticall body in this worlde, and his members in the next, and all our fathers faith hauehave wonne so much, that almes and offeringes in sundry memorialls and diuers obseruations of mindes and obittes, be singular and soueraigne, to procure Gods mercy for the pardon of the soules deceased. And nowe, lest any man take occasion of Gods mercy, which he seeth to be so ready that it may be wone by other mens workes, to liue in contempt of vertuous exercise, and to passe the time of his owne life in carelesse negligence, presuming to purchesse fauour at Gods hande so mercyfull, by other mens merites, with out his owne deede or deserte, let that man be aduertised, quòd non habet partem in sermone isto, that he shall in that case hauehave no benefite by our talke: the mercy which we speake of, perteineth not vntounto him: such idle drone beyes can take no fructe of other mens labours, neither quicke nor deade. For that membre which in this body was so vnprofitable to him self, it is no right nor reason he should hauehave any gaynes by other mens trauell. Therefore all these liberall promisies of fauour and grace, to be procured by the workes of the liue towardes the departed, reach neither to the vnfaithfull out of this house, nor to the impenitent who was but an vnprofitable burden of the house.Lib. 8. constit. 49. These thinges sayth Clement we meane of the godly, for if thou gaue all the welth of the world to the poore for the wicked sake, thou couldest not profite them a heare. For he that dyed in Gods displeasure, can not looke for more mercy then he deserued. Therefore S. Iohn the Apostle seemeth to abbridge our prayers,1. Epist. ca. 5 and the obteining of our petitions, by borderinge them as with in certaines bondes after this sort. VVe know that God doth here vsus what so euer we require, we be sure he will accomplish our requestes which we make vntounto him. Therefore he that knoweth his brother to sinne being not a sinne to death, let him pray and life shall be geuen to him that sinneth not to death: there is a sinne to death, for such I do not will any man to praie. This place of the Apostle, seemeth to declare the wonderfull force that the prayers of the faithfull hauehave, in procuring grace and remission for others, so that they be …rethern, and passe hense with out the bonde of mortall sinne. And the letter well weyed, shall make exceding much to proue the prayers for departed in piety: as it in a maner forbiddeth all intercession for such, as be knowen to passe in continuance of mortall sinne. There is no crime so greuous that man may commit in the course of this life, but the Church vseth prayers customably therefore, and for her reuerence is often hearde. Therefore it may well be thought that the party must be deceased of whome such diuersity of desertes doth arise: for all that be a liue with out exception, if they be brethern of our familie, must be prayde for. And so longe as they be in this worlde, and may repent,The church maye praye for any sinner in this life, vvith hope of mercy. their sinne is not so vntounto death, but life by prayers may be, and is commonly at Gods hande ob…eined. Then it may well be deduced, that the Apos…le meaneth to incourage the faithfull to pray for such their brethren departed, as dyed without bonde of deadly sinne to their sight, in a maner warning them that for such their prayers shall be acceptably hearde. But for others continuing in sinne to death, he willeth not them to praye, nor can assure them they shall be hearde. So doth Dionysius, a man not very auncient, but of a full spirite and good grace, expounde this text.Carth. VVhether he meaneth (sayth this father) by finall impenitence, or by any mortall sinne continued vntounto death, it is sure & plaine a man must not praye for him that dieth in it. Then if we be admonished not to pray for one sorte of departed, the case is cleare that we may, and are bounde, and shall be hearde for the other sorte that sinneth not vntounto death.
CAP. VII.
1 HItherto, but that you louelove to tell your chickens before they be hatched, you neede not greatly to boast of your winnings. But now you will shewe, that prayer and almes helpeth not them that dye in mortall sinne, and that beside your Clement, with whose cloutes you cloy your booke, you woulde fayne proue out of ye Epistle of S. Iohn cap. 5. For that which S. Iohn speaketh of the prayers that Christian men make for their brethren aliue, whom they see to sinne, but not vntounto death, you would take if you could, for prayers to be made for them that are deade, but passed not hence in deadly sin▪ & that which he sayth of prayers not to be made for them that sinne not vntounto death, you weene he ment of them that are known to passe hence in continuance of sinne. But you that dare not presume to make any interpretation without authoritie of the olde Martyrs, when all commeth to all, hauehave none to father your new exposition vppon, but Denys the charterhouse Monke, a yesterdayes bird. But seeing you are not onelyonly voyd of all auncient authoritie, but also hauehave all the olde writers against you, that euer interpreted or alleged this place, let vsus see what is your reason. Forsooth the letter well weighed, maketh much for you, by the way it may be noted, that you call the word of God the letter, in that sense that S. Paule sayth the letter killeth, but I omitte that grosse contumely against the holy Scriptures, where S. Paule sayth the letter killeth, he meaneth not that the holy Scriptures killeth in which is contemed life, but that the law which onelyonly commaundeth and giueth no power to fulfill it pronounceth sentence of death to them that breake it. But to follow your reason. There is no crime so greeuous, that man may commit in this life, but the Church prayeth for it & is often heard: therfore it may be thought that the party must be deceased of whom such diuersitie of deserts doth arise. I deny your antecedent: For the church of Christ, prayeth not for them that sinne against the holy Ghost, & our Sauiour Christ affirmeth that he which sinneth against the holy Ghost shall neuer be forgiuen, who so euer pray for him, and of such sayth S. Iohn, that there is a sinne vntounto death, for which we ought not to pray. Samuell was not heard when he prayed for Saule, 1. Sam. 16. Ieremy is oftentimes forbidden to pray for the obstinate Iewes, Iere. 7.11. & 14. And the Lord testifieth, that if Noach, Daniell and Iob prayed for the wicked, they should not be heard. Ezec. 14. Therefore there be sinnes for which the Church ought not to pray, and though she should pray, yet she should not be heard, euen of men remayning in this life, your second reason (as I conceiue it) is, that so long as men are in …his world, they may repent, & then sinne is not to death. Therfore S. Iohn meaneth, that they that dyed without bond of deadly sinne are to be prayed for: your antecedent as before is false, for the Apostle to the Hebrewes the sixt chapter, sheweth that there be some which sinne so horribly in this life, that it is vnpossible for them to be renewed by repentaunce. So that your exposition being both voyd of authoritie, and contrary to the manifest word of God, of none that is wise, or godly can be receiued. Beside this the whole context of S. Iohns wordes doe plainly declare, that he speaketh of prayers for the brethern that are liuing, and not for them that are dead. But I am to blame to spende so many wordes in a matter so manifest. If the holy Ghost had euer allowed prayer for the dead, he would once at the lest hauehave vttered the same plainly, in holy canonicall Scriptures. But Tertullian, as wise a man as M. Allen, affirmeth (as we heard before) that prayer for the deade, hath no foundation in the Scriptures.
2 To this place also S. Augustine, disputing in his booke de ciuitate dei that praiers profiteth not all men departed, alludeth,Lib. 21. Cap. 24. or rather leaneth vntounto it as a sure groūd against the Origenistes, that woulde hauehave Gods mercy by mans prayers obteined for the wicked soules deceased, after this sort. Si qui autem vsque ad mortem habebunt cor impoenitens, nec ex inimicis conuertuntur in filios, numquid iam pro eis, id est pro talium defunctorum spiritibus orat ecclesia? cur ita nisi quia iam in parte diaboli computantur, qui dum essent in corpore, non sunt translati in Christum? If there be any that till death continue in stubborne impenitency of hearte, and of enemies to Gods Church will not be made children, doeth the Church make intercession for such, that is to say for the soules of them being departed in that state? and why prayeth she not for them, but because they be nowe reckoned for the deuills lot being deade, that woulde not moue to Christes part when they were in their bodies? And this is the cause, that for such as in desperatiō destroy them selues: by any kind of wilfull or violent death, or in the stubborne maintenance of heresie, offer them selues to be extirpate: as well out of the society of mans life, as out of the cōmuniō of the Christian company, our holy mother the Church, who by her practise is the best construer of Gods worde, neuer vseth any meanes for their quiet rest. VVheron there is a holy decree of Councell in this sense, qui sibi ipsis quolibet modo culpabili inferunt mortem, nulla pro illis fiat commemoratio, Bracarens. Cap. 34.neque cum psalmis sepeliantur. All those that by any vnlawfull way procure their owne death, let no commemoration be had of them,Vide Timo. Alexand. respons. 14. nor be brought home with psalmes. The which hath ben both diligently obserued euer amongest Christians, and for terrour of the wicked often by holy Canons renewed. VVherof there is no other cause but this: that such persons being at the ende cut of the common bodie, can receiue no vtility of that, where vntounto they are not, nor now can not be ioyned. And as in that case where Gods Church hath plaine presumption of any persons euerlasting perishing, either by continuance in infidelitie out of her happy family, or by heresie, and separation of him selfe till the last ende, leaping out of her holy lappe where he once was before, or being and continuing, with some open euidence thereof, an vnprofitable membre, and a deade branche: as, I saye, in any plaine proofe of these thinges, the Church neuer practiseth for his rest, because she neither hath hope of getting any grace, nor meanes to conuey any benefite vntounto such as be not in the limmes of life, so if our saide carefull mother doe bestow of her customable kindnesse, all her godly meanes vponupon those whome she knoweth not otherwise but in finall piety and penitence to hauehave passed this life, and yet in deede before God (to whome onelyonly all secrets of mans hearte be perfectly open) dyed as abiectes, and outcastes in sinne and impenitencie, she can not for all that, any whit helpe their estate so miserable, nor appeace Gods wrath towarde, them being now out of the time of deseruing. out of the Churchies lappe, effectually and finally separated from the chosen people, and out of the compaesse of grace and merciemercy. Much lesse any priuate mans prayer can be any thing at all beneficiall to his freinde, or other that dyed not in Gods fauour: whose payne can neither be finished, nor by any of these ordinary meanes, one moment released or lessened. Yet eueryevery good faithfull person must imitate the diligence of Gods Church herein, that ceaseth not both to off… and pray for all sortes with in her limites, that be hense in any likelyhood of repentaunce departed: who hadde rather they shoulde abounde to the needelesse, then at any time lacke for the reliefe of such, that might wante them.
2 All this discourse is needelesse, to proue that prayers profit, not the infidels, or the impenitent, against them that beleue that the soules of the faithfull & the repentant are where Christ is, as he prayeth Ioan. 17. Father I will that those whome thou hast gyuen me where I am they also maye be with me, that they may see my glory. And euen so he sayeth to the theefe no perfect iuste man, but a sinner repentant: This daye thou shalt be with me in Paradise Luke 23. And S. Paule desireth to be dissolued and to be with Christ Philip. 1. This is the fayth of the Church, of Christ, and these be the groundes of our fayth, voide of all doubtfulnesse, obscurity, sophistry and variable sentence of deceiuable men: builded vpō the certaine foundation of the eternall word of God: The authoritie of Augustine proueth that the Church prayed not in his time for the spirits of infidells. But the Councell Bracharense (as afterwarde I shall more plainely shewe) doth insinuate that no prayers were made at all, for the soules of the departed in their Church at their burialls, but onelyonly a remembrance of them in prayers with thankesgeuing and singing of Psalmes. For purgatory shoulde seeme had not yet trauelled into spaine. But touching this assertion of M. Allen, that those which dye out of the fauour of God, as infidells and such like, are not to be prayed for, whose payne can neither be finished, nor one moment released, or lessened by any of these meanes: what saye you then to Gregory the first, byshop of Rome, which with his vehement prayer as your owne Damascene and many others doe witnesse, deliuered the soule of Traianus the heathen Emperour from Hell: whereof there riseth a great controuersie among your doltish diuines, some affirming, that he was deliuered out of Hell in deede, some that he remaineth still in Hell, but not in the torm…nts of Hell, in which opinion is Mathew monke of Westminster in his Flores historiarum Anno gratiae 605. How shall we beleue the booke of Conformities of S. Frances, who is there reported to hauehave deliuered not one but many soules out of Hell. If these be fables and lies M. Allen, they be forged in your owne shop, wheras purgatory & all such other rotten postes and pillers of your Church were receiued. If these be true, that be set forth with so great authoritie, then were not you well aduised to publishe such principles as be proued false by your owne patrons & proctors.
3 Therefore let no man withdrawe his almes, charity, or prayers, from any of the houshoulde of faith, vponupon any light presumption yea or strong coniecture of any mans finall continuance in sinne or wickednesse: vponupon whome in the last spirite of breath, as God maye hauehave mercy, so mans prayers then shall be both needefull, and exceding beneficiall vntounto him. OnelyOnly with conscience thou may, and must cease with Gods Church to practise the wayes of mercy vppon such as be not baptised, or otherwise after their baptisme, hauehave by leauing this holy communion of the faithfull,Heretikes not to be praide for after their death. iudged them selues vnworthy, and made their case vnapte by continuance therein, to receiue any benefite either of the Church, which of their owne accorde they hauehave forsaken, or of any membre thereof, wherevnto by faith and louelove they are not ioyned. And so all heretikes shall be voide of this mercy and grace after their death, which did in their life so earnestly abhorre the same. VponUpon all other where any hope may be had, if thou pray or procure the meanes of mercy, it shall at least be to thy selfe a singular helpe and gayne, though the partie for whome thou doest it, either neede it not, being already receiued into blesse, or els in perpetuall damnation of Hell, be helples for euer. Si preces pro mortuis facimus (sayth S. Chrysostome) si elecmosinas damus, Homil 21. in Cap. 9. Actuum.etsi ille indignus sit, nobis Deus placatior erit: If we pray for the deade, and bestowe almes for their sakes, if he be founde vnworthy, yet God will the rather be mercyfull to our selues. And sure it is, that who so euer be founde so gracious, as with much compassion of the deceaseds misery, to procure with study and care Gods mercyfull pardon towardes them, that such a one especially shall finde grace and fauour at the time of neede, and be meruailous apt to receiue benefit by others procurement againe.VVho be most apte to receiue benefite by the prayers of the liuing. For as it is certaine, that no man can receiue benefite after his departure by any worke or will of the liuing, sauing such as in their life deserued the same, so must it needes be, that where these remedies be needefull and profitable, that yet more or lesse they shall worke vponupon the party for his reliefe, according to the more or lesse deuotion and deseruing in this life. Therefore this trueth of mutuall participation of the deade with the liue, geueth no man occasion of idle rest or carelesse affection in his owne time and cause, when he may be assured to lacke the reliefe of others, to whome in his liefe by well working he woulde not ioyne before.
But I had rather ye hearde S. Augustine vttering expressely this meaning of mine, in his owne wordes.Enchir. cap. 110. It can not be denied (sayth he) but that the soules of the deceased be relieued, when the sacrifice of our redemer is offered for them, or almes bestowed in their behalfe in the Church. But in deede these are profitable to none, but to such as in their life deserued that those things after their departure might doe them good. For there is a state of life that is neither so perfect but it may well hauehave neede of these helpes after death, not yet so very euill, but such thinges may well succour them after their departure. Mary there is a kinde of conuersation so vertuous, that it requireth no such ayed, and an other kinde so wicked, that those which passed their former life therein, can hauehave after their passage no reliefe by such meanes: for by our merites in this life we do obteine, that after our deaths we may either atteine to remedy, or els be voide of all helpes. For it is a very vaine hope, that any man should presume to winne that at Gods hand after he be passed out of this worlde which when he was in the worlde, he neuer sought nor deserued. And a litle after thus he maketh all plaine: VVhen the sacrifice of the altar, or els any kinde of almes be offered for all men departed being baptised, for the very good they are thankes giuing, for the indifferent that be not very euill, they are a mercyfull deliueraunce. For the wicked and very euill, all though they be no succour for them which be departed and deade, yet they are confortable for those that be aliue, And to such as receiue benefite thereby, either commeth full forgiuenesse, or els their iudgement and damnation is made thereby somewhat more tolerable. The which sentence, almost in like wordes, for that it merueillously opened this matter, this author repeteth in the fourth question ad Dulcitiū, and els very often. VVhereby the faithfull man may learne both how much, and whome these remedies do relieue. And then that the Church in his dayes offered sacrifice for all those that were baptised, and in the faith thereof departed: both for that it was vncertaine who had neede thereof, and also, because euen then when the parties were not, nor coulde not be partakers thereof, that Gods glory notwithstanding was excedingly set forth, and man comforted thereby. Therefore Gods Church in a true sense may be saide to offer sacrifice euen for the holy and blessed martyrs, who no doubt by sheeding of their bloude for Christes name, and defense of vnitie, be fully purged in this their death, and so perfectly released of all sinne & paine that might otherwise hauehave deserued punishment, and some expectation of Gods mercy in the life to come.Lib. 4. epist. 5. For so S. Cyprian and other of his Church offered sacrifice, for Celerne, Laurence and Ignatius as he testifieth him selfe: Sacrificia pro eis semper vt meministis offerimus, quoties martyrum passiones & dies anniuersaria cō memoratione celebramus: For them we offer sacrifice, as often as we celebrate the yearly memories of martyrs. For which kinde of perfect men, sacrifice is thankes geuing vntounto God for their glory and giftes of grace, and a kinde of intercession to them in our necessities.Tractat 84. in Ioannē. For which cause S. Augustine affirmeth, Quòd pro martyribus non oramus fed ipsi oran… pro nobis: VVe pray not for martyrs, but they pray for vsus. Nowe the sacrifice often celebrated for the wicked also, that be not knowen to the Church so to be, is not beneficiall to them neither, because their naughty life and death makes them vnapte to receiue comforth thereby: yet these holy appointed remedies are both comfortable and meritorious to the geuers and procurers, as blessinges which are not lost,Hovv prayer vvhichwhich taketh no effect in the departed, is profitable to the procurer. but turne againe to the bestowers. For the profit of other, or the onelyonly will to relicue other, is a singular deserte and meanes of merite to a mans selfe. Full truely saide Damascene, that this carefull helpe & seruing of others mens lackes, is much like to the paine which one taketh in anoynting with a precious baulme an other mans body, which as he tempereth in his hande to bestowe vponupon an other, it first redoundeth in verdure and vertue to him selfe, and then passeth by him, to the vse of his neighbour, for whome principally it was prepared.
3 These matters stand all vponupon a false supposition, that any prayers are auailable for the deade, which when it can not be proued, it is in vayne to shewe who taketh profit by them, who not, who more and who lesse, and what becommeth of those prayers that be offered for either them that neede no helpe, or that can not be helped. We learne out of Gods worde, that what so euer we doe pray for according to Gods will we shall obteyne. 1. Iohn. 5. therefore this one hatchet shall cut asunder all these knottes, prayers for the dead are not according to the will of God, and therfore they are not heard at al, for immediatly after death, as M. Allen him selfe confesseth, followeth iudgement, but prayers eyther neede not or boote not, when the party is eyther acquited or condemned by the sentence of the iudge, which as Augustine sayth can not be indifferent betwene rewarde, & punishment. De libero arbitrio. lib. 3. cap. 23.
4 But notwithstanding this free procurement and liberall graunt of common helpes in the departeds case, euen there where it is vncertaine whether they take effect or no, the Church yet doth not onelyonly absteine from sacrifice and request for such as doe openly appeare to sinne vntounto death, as the Apostle sayth, but some times for punishment of certeine contemptes and disobedience in some persons, she forbeareth these meanes, euen there where she might proffet the departed, & peraduēture cleane discharge him of sinne and paine with all. VVhichWhich she doth by merueillous graue authoritie, to the great terror of offenders. That by the greuous punishment of certaine, many might learne to be carefull and wise.
Greate is the authoritie of Gods ministers suerly, and heuy is their hand often vponupon sinners, alwayes to edifie and neuer to de…troie. VVhat a straunge force had Peters wordes,Act. 5. that droue …owne to death for dissimulation man and wife, almost both at a lappe? what a horrible & dreadfull iudgement practised Paule, 1. ad Tim. 1. 1. Cor. 5.…n geuing vp some to Satan him selfe, for sinne? howe sharply …id the primitiue Church execute iudgement vponupon greuous of…enders, whome some times after many yeares separation from the comfortable receiuing the sacraments, they woulde hardely admit at their last ende to the fellowship therof. But no where could the maiesty of Gods Church appeare with more terrour, then in this case: when she dischargeth certaine for their punishment, of all common helpe by prayers, oblation, and sacrifice after their departure: though they otherwise dyed in the fauour of God, as I take it, & might be of the chosen company that shall be saued. And that punishment was nothing els but a keping of them in longer correction and paine for their sinne, vnderunder Gods scourge in the next worlde, for the admonishment of others in that case to beware, whiles she would not vse her ordinary meanes for their release. A notable example we hauehave thereof, out of a Councell holden in Affricke:Concilium Aphricanū. Epist. 9. the decree of which assemblie, S. Cyprian him selfe with a practise in the execution thereof, reporteth in the first booke of his epistles. VVhere he willeth that one Victor, who had made Geminus Faustinus being a priest against the ordre taken in the Councell of Aphrike, the executor of his testament, shoulde therefore hauehave no prayers of the clergie, nor sacrifice after his departure saide or done for him. For in that time of greate persecution, such instant prayers, so often sacrifice, the scarsity of ministers, the peoples necessity required, that the priests shoulde perpetually, with out all exception of worldly affayers, serue the altar. But you shall heare this blessed Martyrs, or rather his wordes together with the Councells ordinaunce. Victor cum contra formam nuper in consilio a sacerdotibus da…ā, Geminum Faustinum presbyterum ausus sit actorē constituere, non est quò pro dormitione eius apud vos fiat oblatio, aut deprecatio nomine eius in ecclesia frequentetur, vt sacerdotum decretum, religiose & necessariò factum, seruetur a nobis: simul & caeteris fratribus detur exemplum, ne quis sacerdotes & ministros dei altari eius & ecclesiae vacantes, ad seculares molestias deuocet. In English thus: Seeing Victor against the ordre taken of late in a holy Synode of priestes, hath made Geminus Faustinus the cheefe doe… in the execution of his will and testament, let it be prouided that there be no oblation there with you for his reste, nor yet any prayers in his behalfe in the Church: that the decree of the priestes before sayde, maye be religiousely obserued and executed by vsus. That thereby all other our bretherne maye beware by his example, howe they withdrawe suche as shoulde serue the authour, to entangle them selues with worldely affaires.
4 Now commeth a cumbersome case, that whereas he had affirmed before in the beginning of this capter, that there is no crime so greeuous that man may commit in the course of this life, but the Church vseth prayers accustomably therefore, in which affirmation he includeth sinne against the holy Ghost also, nowe he findeth in Cyprian, a place, where prayers and sacrifice as he thinketh, were denyed to him, which had committed but a small fault in it selfe, and such as Priestes doe now adayes commonly incurre, namely to be an executer of mens testamentes. But the matter seemeth to be farre otherwise then M. Allen doth take it. Cyprian in the 6. Epistle of his first booke, reporteth that there was a decree made in the assembly of the Church, before his tyme, that no brother departing out of this life, should name any of the clergy to be his executor, or ouerseer of his will. Ac si quis hoc fecisset non offerretur pro eo, nec sacrificium pro dormitione eius celebraretur. Neque enim ad altare Dei meretur nominari, in sacerdotum prece, qui ab altari sacerdotes & ministros suos Leuitas auocare voluit, & ideò, &c. And if any had done so, there should be no offering for him nor sacrifice for his falling a sleepe (so they called departing out of this life) should be celebrated. For he is not worthy to be named at the aultar of God in the prayer of the Priestes, which would call away his Priestes & ministers the Leuites from the aultar. And therefore seeing Victor, contrary to the forme giuen by the Priestes in councell was so bold to make Geminus Faustinus an elder his executor, there is no cause that oblation should be made among you for his falling a sleepe, or that any prayer in his name should be frequented in the Church, &c. By these wordes it appeareth first that Cyprian in these termes, sacrifice, Priest, aultar, alludeth to the sacrifices of thankesgiuing in the lawe, because he vseth also that name of Leuites by which he calleth Gods ministers. For as for the sacrifice propitiatory, was offered in the law, only by the high Priest once in the yeare. So that he meaneth no other oblation or sacrifice for the dead but the sacrifice of thankesgiuing, which was for their godly departure. And therefore he calleth it not a sacrifice for their sinnes, but for their falling a sleepe. And by prayer he meaneth nor prayer for deliuery of the deade out of purgatory, but as Origen sayth for the faithfull liuing, to hauehave the like godly departure as he had that was fallen a sleepe. And therfore he sayth not, that such a one is not worthy to be praied for, but he is not worthy to be named in the prayer, which was made for them that remayned to ende their dayes happily, as such a one, or such a one whose names were recited in those memories, had already fulfilled their course. For otherwise, what so euer M. Allen iangleth of the seueritie of the churches discipline, if they had thought the soules of the departed to be in so great torments, and that prayer and sacrifices had bene such a necessary helpe for them, it had bene …o much crueltie for one offence & that not so great, either to condemne a man to so horrible punishment, or to deny him vtterly all maner of helpe and comfort. The discipline of the Church when it is most seuere, is to bring to repentaunce them that are in life, not to rage against them that are deade which can not repent. Nor to reiect any man vtterly, but him that is certainly knowne to be vtterly forsaken of God. But this Geminius Victor of whom Cyprian thus writeth, was a good Christian, in somuch that Cyprian him selfe calleth him his brother. Geminius Victor frater noster de saeculo excedens. Our brother Geminius Victor departing out of this world, &c. Wherfore if the punishment had extended to the torment of his soule, or the hinderance of reliefe vntounto his soule being in tormentes, the Churche would not hauehave bene so rigorous against a faithful brother, for mayntenance of their owne decree, which was not expresly forbidden by the word of God. Wherefore it may appeare that this punishment, was only a note of ignominy to Victor him selfe for his transgression at his departure, & especially an example for the rest of the brethren (as Cyprian sayth) that they cal not away the ministers of God from his seruice, to worldly affayres, lest they be likewise noted of infamy when they are deade.
5 And here nowe our aduersaries must be called vponupon, and asked howe they can away with this geare, whether this light of trueth be not ouer vehement for their bleared eyes?The heretikes called vponupon to aunsvvere. owle light or moneshine I trow, or mirke midnight were more fit for their darke workes and doctrine, our waye is ouer much trodden for theeues. All this course of our cause, so agreeth with it selfe: so standeth with reason: so vpholden by scripture, so ordered in all pointes,The vvhole matter ordered to our handes. that Momus him selfe coulde practise no art, nor picke no quarelles here. For such we must praye: for those we must not praye: in this case the sacrifice of Gods Church relieueth the departed, in that case it is comfortable onelyonly to the liuinge: some men neede helpe after their death, others helpe we neede, and not they ours: for open infidelles and heretikes prayers are not vsed, for all secret offendres, because their case is not knowen to the Church, of charity towardes her children, she openly prayeth: some she punisheth, some she pardoneth, for all she merueillous tenderly careth. This doctrine of trueth is purposely ordered by our elders, eueryevery point is touched and tried to our handes. VVhat time of the day was it in Gods Church, saye trueth, and shame the deuill, when holy Cyprian wrote these thinges? when the Councell of Aphricke decreed these thinges? when Victor was punished by lacke of sacrifice and prayers at his departure? doeth your time of ignoraunce which you hauehave limited for your walke, reach vp so high in Gods house? but I will spare you to anone, your aunswere is not ready.
5 And here now our aduersary must occupy his goose quill, like the gooses trumpet to awake vsus to aunswere him, as though we were a sleepe, or he so well appoynted to fight against vsus, we must be asked howe we can away with this geare. Surely as the sunne is not obscured with the dust that a cocke casteth vp whē he scrapeth on the dunghill, no more is the sonne of righteousnes our onelyonly ful redemption, or the light of his holy word darkned by all the myste of mennes deuises, which Allen or his complices can rayse out of the whole heape of superstition and errour, to deface the glory of his truth. The Lord is our light and saluation, therefore we will not be a feard of purgatory. The word of the Lorde is a light vntounto our steppes and a lanterne vntounto our feete, therefore we will not walke in the darkenes of mens traditions. Our workes and doctrine shall one daye be tryed before God, and therfore we make no accompt how we be iudged by mans daye, and lest of all by such a mans dome, as hath his tongue more ready to rayle and sclaunder, then his hearte instructed to discerne and iudge. your way is your owne way, and not the way of the Lorde, and because you take an other way vntounto saluation, then the onelyonly right way Iesus Christ, therefore by his owne sentence, you are all theeues and murderers. But because you gather your forces together to shew the strength of your cause, I will also generally shew your feeblenesse, to the ouerthrow of your purpose. The course of your cause you say so agreeth with it selfe. What els? To proue that there is purgatory, you vrge the satisfying of Gods iustice so extremely, that beside the suffering of Christ and forgeuenes of sinnes, yet there must needes be a suffering of the party that offended. But when you will shew by what meanes this suffering maye be either mitigated or cleane taken away: you cleane take away the extremitie of Gods iustice which before you so earnestly maintained. O worthy agreemēt of your cause with it selfe. Beside the agreement with it selfe it so standeth with reason. Suerly howe reasonable so euer it seemeth to you, that the merites of men shoulde winne, that which the merites of Christ coulde not winne: that the suffering of men shoulde satisfie, for that which the suffering of Christ coulde not satisfie with the iustice of God, to them that hauehave there reason rightly reformed it seemeth altogether vnreasonable, (So vpholden with scripture.) Neuer once mentioned in scripture, and so confessed by Tertullian, one that leaned to some parte of your cause: (so he ordered in all pointes.) So patched together like a beggers cloke with so many peeses of so many colours, one patch out of Tertullian, an other out of Augustine, an other out of Gregory, an other out of Damascene, many stolen out of the monkes cowle, and sayed to be geuen by Clemens, Athanasius, and such like, some rent awaye violently against the owners willes, as from Origen, Cyprian, the Councells of Vase, and Carthage, and no small peeses out of drousy dreames, and mockadoe miracles, narrations, and relations &c. I promise you a goodly ordered cause. But of Cyprians time we must saye the trueth and shame the deuill, so we will and shame the Pope to, his eldest sonne. It was such time M. Allen, as Cyprian byshoppe of Carthage, thought him selfe equall with Cornelius and Stephanus byshoppes of Rome. 1. lib. epist. 1. cap. 4. de simplicitate praelatorum &c. It was such a time that Cyprian taught, that fayth onelyonly doth profit to saluation, To. 2. ad Quirin. cap. 42. And that he beleeued not in God at all, which placeth not the trust of all his felicity in him onelyonly. De duplici martyrio. Yea it was such time, that Cyprian woulde hauehave nothing doen in the celebration of the Lords Supper, and namly in ministring of the cuppe, but that Christ him selfe did. lib. 2. epist. 3. And yet it was such a time also, as Cyprian and all the byshoppes of Africa decreed in Councel, that those whcih were baptised by heretikes, should be baptised againe. And therefore it was no such time, but that he and all his fellowes though they held the foundation of Christ, yet might and did erre in some opinions, contrary to the trueth of Gods worde. And where you aske whether the time of ignoraunce, that we limitte for our walke, doth rech so high as Cyprian his time, I woulde you knewe we walke not in ignoraunce of any time, but in the knowen path of Gods word, which is higher then Cyprians or any mortall mans time. But the time of ignoraunce which is limited for your walke, that call ignoraunce the mother of deuotion, first is all beside the path of Gods worde, and then euen from the time that the misterie of iniquitie beganne to worke. 2. Thess. 2. Euen vntill the time that Antichrist was openly shewed in the full power of darkenesse, in all times when so euer, and where so euer was any peese of miste, or darke corner (though all the rest were light) there were the steppes of your walke. As euen in the Apostles time, when the superstition of Angells beganne to be receiued, there was one steppe of your waye, which you holde euen to this daye Colos. 2. And from that time the deuill neuer lefte to set in his foote, for his sonne Antichristes dominion, vntill he had placed him in the temple of God, and prepared the wyde world for his walke.