Rejoinder to Bristows Reply, Part 1 · Chapter 9 · Section 3 – Section 1
3. About Purgatorye. Touching Scriptures expounded against Bristowe.it.
He sayeth I am taken in a vaine bragge, because Fulke.I beeing vrged by Allen, to bring any Scripture expounded by any of all antiquity against prayers for the dead, I bring only Hierom, referring the reader to other places of Cyprian, and Origen, and other cited in diuerse places of my booke. These places he saith, are but bare names. But when we come to expounding of these places, we shall finde, eyther reason or auctority of these Doctors for vsus. In the meane time, we will consider Hieronyme, whom Bristowe saith, that I confesse to hauehave allowed prayers for the deade: Wherein he saith vntruly, for I neuer confessed simply, that he allowed prayers for the deade: But Pur. 194. I saide interrogatiuely and by waie of concession, Howe hapeneth it yt Chrysostome and Hieronyme, which both interpreted that place, could gather no such matter, although they otherwise allowed prayer for the deade? And indeede in so many bookes of Hieronyme nothing can be found whereby it may be proued, that he allowed prayer for the deade, although it were a common error of many in his time. And in this place cited in the decrees by Gratia…. 139. 2. he simply denieth that any prayers are profitable for the deade.
The place in deede as (Bristowe saith) is in his Comment. vponupon Gal. 6. although he in exposition allude to 2. Cor. 5. we must all appeare before the iudgment seate of Christe. But the answere of this place of Hierome, Bristowe saith, I might learne of the glose, which expoundeth it of them that die without repentaunce only, but in deede it is spoken generally of all men. As the very wordes declare vponupon this texte, EueryEvery one shall beare his owne burthen. Videtur superioribus contrair…, vbi ait, &c. He seemeth to goe against the former sentence, where he sayth: Beare the burthens one of an other: For if euerie one shall beare his owne burthen, one cannot beare the burthens of an other. But we must consider that there he commanded, that we which cōmit sinne, should in this life helpe one an other, and in this present worlde should be an aide one to an other: but here hee speaketh of the iudgment of the Lorde vponupon vsus: that not of other mens sinn, or of comparison of the worser, but according to our own worke, we shalbe iudged of him, either sinners or holy, eueryevery one receiuing according to his owne worke. Obscurè licet doce…r per han… sententiolam, nouum dogma quod latitat: We are taught by this short sentence though darkely, a newe doctrine, or opinion whiche lyeth hidde: that while we are in this present worlde, we may helpe one another, either by prayers or by counsels: but when we shall come before the iudgement seate of Christe, that neither Iob, nor Dauid nor Noe can intreate for any man, but that euerie one doth beare his owne burthen. That which Hierome speaketh of himselfe, and of all other, that prayers can not auaile them, beeing out of this world, when the glose restreyneth onelyonly to them that die in mortall sinne, without repentance, it is as good as the olde iest, Statuimus, id est abrogamus. It is also worthy to be considered that Hierome as it seemeth against the errour of his time, calleth this a newe doctrine which he gathereth of that sentence.
That the moste auncient doctours doe not interprete the Scriptures by name against Purgatorie, I said it was because Purgatorie in their time was neither heard nor named. Bristowe replyeth, that I confessed Cap. 3. that the olde doctours heard both the name and the thing, &c. Thus he chargeth me still with confessions falsely. For although Augustine heard of the name of Purgatorie, whereof he sometimes doubteth, sometimes denyeth all places but two, yet no writer before him. Neither were prayers for the dead heard in the Churche, before the heresie of Montanus. But to returne to Hierome, whom I saide in Eccle. 11. to expound the North and South, not for the states of grace and wrath, but for the places of rewarde or punishment: Bristowe sayeth of both. But I denie that he speaketh of the state of grace, in that sort that Allen meaneth: namely, that any man so dieth in the state of grace, that he obteineth release of punishment after this life, which is the matter in question, but that Bristowe is disposed to cauill. For although a man in this life, may be remoued out of the North into the South, yet when the tree is fallen, there is no more remouing by Hieroms iudgement. Wheresoeuer thou preparest thee a place, and a seate hereafter, whether it be in the South, or in the North, there when thou art dead, thou shalt continue. This whiche the Doctor speaketh expressely of a place, a seate of euerlasting continuance, Bristow for want of a better answere, expoundeth of merite, as though it might stande with Hieronyms authoritie, that the place might be changed although the merite can not be bettered.
Touching scriptures for Purgatorie and prayer for the dead, whether the Doctours say, No Scripture to make for it.Bristow….
I said that Tertullian confesseth, yt oblations & prayers for the dead were not taken of the scriptures but of tradition. Bristow in diuers places denieth any such confession of Tertullian, restraining his meaning to an onelyonly ceremonie of oblation and prayers on the yeares day of their departure: as though oblation and prayer for ye dead generally, were clearly taught in ye scriptures, which thing if it be: why doth not Allen or Bristowe, or any writer yong or olde, bring one place out of the canonicall Scriptures, allowing prayer and oblation for the deade? and as touching Tertullian, his wordes are such, as with no equity may be restrained to so particular a ceremonie: Oblationes pro defunctis, pro natalitiis, annua die facimu…. We make oblations for the deade, for the day of mens byrth on the yearly daie. If Oblationes pr… natalitiis, be not founde in the Scriptures at all, neither on the yearly daie, nor any other daie, Why saie we not the like of Oblationes pro desunctis? Againe, why maie it not be, that the yearly day of celebration is meant only of mens byrth, and oblations for the deade left at larg… for to celebrate the yearly festiuity of mens birth, was vsual among the Gentiles, eueryevery man for himselfe. But to obserue the yearely day of al mens death were infinite, either for their friends or for the Priests to doe. Wherefore it remaineth, that oblations for the dead, what soeuer they were in Tertullians time, were not taken of the Scriptures. And if they were Masse and prayers for the dead, as the Papistes say, Masse and prayers for the dead are not taken out of the Scriptures by Tertullians confession.
The contradictions that he layeth to me, I alwayes reserue to their peculiar Chapter. Augustine also denyeth a third place to be found in the Scriptures, D… Verb. Apost. ser. 14. Contra Pelagian. Hyp. lib. 5. And De Verb. Apostol. Ser. 33 For praying for the dead, he alledgeth the tradition of the fathers, which he is not wont to doe, where scripture doth not faile him. Epiphanius likewise against Aerius bringeth no Scripture, but the custome and tradition of the Churche in naming the dead in their prayers. And which of the olde writers except Chrysostome, once goeth about to alledge Scripture for prayer for the dead? Wherefore I made no vaine bragge in saying most of the olde writers, that defende such prayers, confessed they had them not of the Scriptures.